Indian Road Development

sandy
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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby sandy » 06 Jun 2002 23:40

Now Punjab is going to have World class Road ways-

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=12198125

bikram

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Bibhas » 15 Jun 2002 03:25

Is it possible to build a cross-country corridor-highway in Indian Subcontinent from calcutta to Imphal/Agartala via bangladesh?

I have always thought of this idea as one good step towards building infrustructure in India. It will shorten the road distance from calcutta to Northeast by more than half and at the same time give a good opportunity of bilateral trade with India. Thirdly, It will open up a future possibility of connecting India to burma and beyond with a very low cost as only road from agartala onwards have to be built. Does the current bilateral framework between Bangladesh and India accomodate this kind of initiative or we have to think everything from the scratch. I am fully aware of the risk involved because of the fundoo nature of bungladesh. But this road will also improve their economy a lot. So barring few worst case scenario it is viable IMHO. also it will almost cetrtainly spur tremendous growth in NE region.

Being a corridor type highway (that is exit and reenter in the same country) it will have certain complexity for India (from VISA etc). for BD it will be a normal highway (i.e. enter and exit only once). Can BR gurus explain to the rest of us what are the modalities of such a initiative. Political, diplomatic, economical and ofcourse technical. I am not quite sure whether terrain is any hindrance there. ANy comments?

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Anurag » 15 Jun 2002 04:04

Bibhas,

The National Highway Development Project does include the creation of an east-west corridor. This will be conneceting Porbandar in Gujarat to Silchar in Assam. This is to be completed by 2007 including a north-south corridor connecting Srinagar to Kanyakumari. For more information on this please check out www.nhai.org

Cheers,

Anurag

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Bibhas » 15 Jun 2002 05:52

Anurag,

I knew about this NSEW corridors. But this is nothing new as compared to what is already existing. It is probably 4/6 lane conversion of an exiting highway. This arrangment will have couple of demerits.

1. It really does not reduce the distance between the north east and the rest of the India, especially the most important city in the eastern region, Calcutta.

2. Currently all inbound and outbound road traffic has to pass through Assam, which is a big bottle neck, IMO. Considering you have to travel to tripura from calcutta, you have to travel almost three sides of a square.

3. As Calcutta will already connected to other metros directly throug GQ, it only makes sense to connect to Imphal/Agartala directly from calcutta. In fact, due to existing calcutta-mumbai highway, it will practically connect mumbai to lower north-east region.

Bibhas

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Rudra » 15 Jun 2002 18:04

road building in Bdesh is a costly exercise due
to extensive deltas, marshy lands and rivers.

before anyone spends money I would like to see
Bangladesh open its existing road network for
NE traffic and see if its stable for 2-3 yrs.

best idea is for Bdesh to obtain a loan and build
this road, then charge a toll for india-india
traffic. or we can cover part of the cost and
have some control.

it has to be access controlled, else you will
have to share with 1000s of people running around
and even encroaching upon it. I have seen in
Assam in summer people go to the extent of
putting a bamboo mat right on the highway and
drying the harvested rice there !

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Sridhar » 15 Jun 2002 19:38

Bangladesh has in recent years constructed a decent road network with World Bank assistance. The question is therefore not about a road. It is about access as RS has pointed out. The first step is for them to allow transit. Even if they charge a healthy toll and transit fees, transporters would still find it cheaper to use this route. Both would gain from the process.

In any case, I don't foresee Bangladesh allowing the construction of an access controlled road exclusively for India-India traffic, whatever the economic benefits. Hell, these clowns are dithering even on selling gas, which they cannot use, cannot sell to anybody else and that India wants to buy.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Anurag » 17 Jun 2002 09:56

Indian Access contolled in Bangladesh, I think besides being wishful thinking, it's not a good idea in the first place! The cost would be astronomical including the toll that would be charged by the right wing minded BD govt. This would simply raise product prises being transported to the N-E. That's the last thing we want for now not forgetting the cost of building such a highway system in that terrain as Sridhar has mentioned above.
Basically we have to use what we got here, i don't see any other way around. Just my thoughts!

Cheers,

Anurag

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Victor » 20 Jun 2002 08:26

Regarding transport to and from the Northeast, specially WRT a possible port in northern Myanmar bypassing b'desh, but also valid in general for the rest of India:

I don't recall seeing widespread use of standardized containers in India that we see everywhere else--just the old, grossly overladen Tatas strapped down with tarpaulin and the familiar railway dabbas. But I was not paying too much attention 2 years ago.

Standardized containers are easily converted from stacked ship cargo to truck trailers or railway bogies and vice versa by using reusable road/railway wheel modules, making them easily and efficiently transportable by any combination of means. If some routes can't use the standard 40-footer, they should be able to use the also-standard 20-footer.

Just curious why containers have not taken off yet in India even though they have been standard the World over for decades. Port equipment, unions...?


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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Sridhar » 21 Jun 2002 02:19

A picture of the newly opened Chennai Bypass Phase I. Picture quality not very good, but shows the (now standard) features like a hard shoulder, chevron signs, and even an overhead sign in the distance.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/stories/2002062100231100.htm

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby member_4413 » 21 Jun 2002 03:48

Can anybody post the pictures of the Delhi-Noida Toll Bridge? I have heard that its quite...

Thanks in advance

Sumit

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Anurag » 21 Jun 2002 04:04

Sumit, i need your email address, will send you the Delhi-Noida pics. They are worth a look!

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Anurag » 21 Jun 2002 04:44

Admins,
Who shall i send the Delhi-Noida toll bridge pics to so it could be hosted on the BR server?

Cheerrs,

Anurag

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby member_4413 » 21 Jun 2002 22:20

Anurag, My emaill id is inbox4sumit@yahoo.com

Thanks

Sumit

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby shim george » 23 Jun 2002 00:55

Anurag,

Can you please send me pics of the Delhi-Noida tol bridge as well? My email is Jgeorge11@aol.com

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby JE Menon » 23 Jun 2002 05:29


Div
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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Div » 24 Jun 2002 08:18

Mahindra & Mahindra launches 'Scorpio' utility vehicle
http://www.siliconindia.com/shownewsdata.asp?newsno=15667&newscat=Business

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Vick » 25 Jun 2002 00:27


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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby member_4413 » 26 Jun 2002 03:20

Vick,
I was going thru this forum and saw the following posted by you:
Quote:
The Golden Quardilateral, which was scheduled for completion by December 2003, would be ready by the first half of 2004, sources said, adding the time overrun was on account of delays in construction in Gujarat, Bihar and West Bengal on account of law and order problems.

But if you go the NHAI (National Highway Auth of India's) website and see the status of Golden Quardilateral project you will find that they are lagging in other states like Andhra, Karnataka, MP, Rajasthan etc. etc. NHAI is just passing the blame to other states...
The link is
http://www.nhai.org/gqmap.htm

And By the way, Anurag you were to send those photos of Delhi Noida toll bridge...I am still waiting... :confused:

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Anurag » 26 Jun 2002 04:07

mail sent sumit & admin!

member_4413
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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby member_4413 » 26 Jun 2002 07:06

Thanks Anurag...

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby member_1703 » 01 Jul 2002 04:06

This post is related to a photo in the news thread. The photo opened the question of cycle riskshaws in India for me. It is estimated that there are at least a million cycle riskshaws in india with several "modern" models mooted recently. The claim is that this form of transport is indispensable as the roads in urban and semi urban areas cannot be widened. Perhaps a discussion on non high profile urban roads is warranted?

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby gauravsavant » 01 Jul 2002 04:44

Nikhil Shah,

The factors that you list for making a highway/expressway ( Expressways have the same conditions as a highway, except that they are better designed and have higher speed limits) 6 lanes are correct, but there are many other conditions econmic as well as political that go into making the decision, a 4 lane is preferred because, in most cases the accumulating cost of maintanence on six lanes is more than the cost of constructing additional lanes later on, and then there is another Cost and benefit study, the simple fact is that unless there is traffic to justify a six lane road it would be stupid to go for a six lane road.

Moreover, the money spent in making a six lane road would ( I believe) be better spent in making good all weather roads in villages.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Yash » 01 Jul 2002 05:10

Originally posted by GauravS:
...a 4 lane is preferred because, in most cases the accumulating cost of maintanence on six lanes is more than the cost of constructing additional lanes later on, and then there is another Cost and benefit study, the simple fact is that unless there is traffic to justify a six lane road it would be stupid to go for a six lane road...
Unfortunately, the tendency of dhabas and other 'unregulated' businesses to creep up along the highways creates a problem for lane expansion few years on. Secondly, US hwy system, started ~1950 by Sen Gore (former VP Gore's dad) took into account the fact that one needs to be prepared for future demands. I agree with Nikhil Shah in that while we're at it, we do it fully correct and go with 6lane hwys.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby gauravsavant » 01 Jul 2002 05:19

Yash,
Unfortunately, the tendency of dhabas and other 'unregulated' businesses to creep up along the highways creates a problem for lane expansion few years ..
I agree that that is true, but you must remember that the land is acquired and the encroachers can be removed.

However the problem of enough traffic still remains, the simple fact is that there is not enough traffic in India to warrant a six lane highway, the traffic looks a lot to us just because of our own tendency to drive in bundles that is just drive bumper to bumper, and we really can not compare US conditions to Indian, the climate is much different with widely varying climate and the monsoons causing much more maintanence problems add to that thecost of acquiring additional right of way land that would have to acquired ( primarily from farmers) , that would be a real political typhoon

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Rudra » 01 Jul 2002 05:31

they should atleast buy the land for one extra
lane each way and design the on/off roads to
take into account. at the least a paved shoulder
is a must because trucks quite often break down.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby gauravsavant » 01 Jul 2002 05:35

Rudra Singha,

they should atleast buy the land for one extra
lane each way and design the on/off roads to
take into account. at the least a paved shoulder
is a must because trucks quite often break down
This is one of the most important difference between a Highway and an Expressway, on an expressway you can't just stop anywhere, there are emergency stops every kilometer or so, this restriction is there because people have a tendency of stopping whenever they please and that interrupts smooth traffic flow( Even though there is an additional lane) as people often drive slow when they see a parked vehicle on a road as there are uncertainties about the vehicle.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby S Bajwa » 01 Jul 2002 19:37

Secondly, US hwy system, started ~1950 by Sen Gore (former VP Gore's dad) took into account the fact that one needs to be prepared for future demands
Sure!... among various other things claimed by as achieved by Gores... include "Creation of Internet","Economic boom of 1999", "death of Soviet Union", etc...

Highway System of USA is a direct result of the market crash of early 1930s when government under Roosevelt starting pouring federal money into the Highways to provide employment to millions of unemployed youth., many worked for FOOD ONLY.
Dude.. You cannot compare Indian leadership with American., Indian leadership has always failed its people, American leadership has not.

Americans took over the industrial revolution from Europe and gave the world many things and brought revolution into large scale manufacturing and research.

India cannot succeed in this american formula because India does not have
1. Large research base.
2. Rich european market (or wars to earn money as big as both the world wars).

Where India can succeed is
1. Agriculture based research (because it has educated people, excellent climate of various types, and fertile land).
2. Agriculture based economy (exporting flowers, fruits, from South america to Japan).
3. Other spin off industries off agriculture based (fertilizers, seeds, processed food, dairy, poultry, fisheries, meats, etc).
so... if infrastructure is developed such that it helps vast majority of people (i.e. farmers or related to agriculture who are 70% of Indian population) so that Products are efficiently transported from point a to point b will be most fruitful.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Sumant » 01 Jul 2002 21:26

RS, the Mumbai-Pune Expy does have a wide shoulder (paved) esp. in the ghat sections and even on some of the flat stretches. This part of NH4 requires 6 lanes though more often than not, buses and trucks still stick to the old 'free' way.
High density corridors could be made 6 lanes as the traffic picks up over the years, and at least in the BBY-Pune case, there is ample room on the sides, even in the tunnels!

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Vick » 12 Jul 2002 00:40

Don't know if it was posted earlier but here are a good number of pics of the M-P expressway while it was under construction.

http://www.punelifestyle.com/expressway1/default.htm

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby ramana » 12 Jul 2002 01:01

Sridhar or Vick would you like to summarize the info on this thread in say 1000 words and give the essential links for a summary article? A lot of good information is posted and its a pity if it gets lost as soon as the thread's life is over.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Sridhar » 12 Jul 2002 01:25

I don't mind working on it over the weekend.

Vick: If you are interested, we should do this jointly.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Vick » 12 Jul 2002 01:42

Over the weekend might be a bit optimistic for me but I would like to participate. Although, I suspect Sridhar to be infinitely more knowledgable than I. I am an infrastructure enthusiast whereas Sridar actually knows stuff. :)

Added later: Maybe the admins should let this thread and the infrastructure thread to continue ad infinitum (or the next server crash, which ever comes first) because theoretically, there is hopefully no end to the road and infrastructure development in India.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Chandra » 12 Jul 2002 04:32

Sridhar/Vick, I would like to pitch in too.

Vick can you email me.

chandrasekhar@mailcity.com

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Chandra » 16 Jul 2002 18:51


sandy
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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby sandy » 25 Jul 2002 21:27

Less than Six months sourcing of funds for a 64km stretch of road project in West Bengal has been sucessfully completed-

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=15596166

bikram

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby wasu » 28 Jul 2002 07:08

This is a site being developed by Satyam Navigation.

http://www.roadsofindia.com

Good beginning. Check out the directions between places within a city by clicking on "Directions". Pretty good. Ultimately, this should become the Indian Mapquest.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Ananth » 28 Jul 2002 13:52

A related report regarding the completion of first phase of GQ.
link

Quoting relevant portion
Minor slippages were expected in the golden quadrilateral project because of problems associated with land acquisition and removal of trees, sources said.

Almost 1,065 km in the golden quadrilateral and 707 km in the north-south-east-west corridor have been completed.

However, the target of 4,559 km was not likely to be completed by December 2003, sources said.


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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Sridhar » 28 Jul 2002 19:41

The target date for completion of the GQ was December 2004, as laid down in NHAI's mandate. It was an internal target to push this forward to December 2003. The project would be mostly complete by the mandated target date.

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Re: Indian Road Development

Postby Ananth » 29 Jul 2002 01:49

Originally posted by Sridhar:
The target date for completion of the GQ was December 2004, as laid down in NHAI's mandate. It was an internal target to push this forward to December 2003. The project would be mostly complete by the mandated target date.
Sridhar some questions:

IIRC, GQ had 2 phases. What were the deadlines for the 2 phases to be completed? Also what were the revised(pre-poned) deadlines for the 2 phases? Was NSEW also divided into phases? What are the corresponding deadlines for the NSEW corridor?

Also since you are virtual moderator for this thread and since thread is already 8 pages long is there any plan to archieve it or to let it simply phase out?

thanx
-Ananth


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