Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Austin
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 29 Jul 2011 11:39



For once I would agree with MOD and FO , its better the retiring chief stop making dramatic statements with regards to nuclear weapons and should be more restrained in such matter.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby bharatiya » 29 Jul 2011 12:13

While I would prefer to see the service chiefs comment in the background and not over the news wires, to me it seems to be a symptom of the lack of high level exchange and understanding between the forces and the political powers that be. It seems the service chiefs are increasingly frustrated by the absence of leadership by the UPA government with regard to the internal and external security scenario, making them feel they need to air their views in public in order to force the issue and have their voice heard.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Vashishtha » 29 Jul 2011 13:43

^^Increasingly i feel the same too.... The chief's could be really frustrated at the governments pusillanimity.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Bolasani » 30 Jul 2011 13:48

The Hindu:Sensitive information leaked from Indian embassy in Moscow

Sensitive information from the Indian embassy in Moscow appears to have been leaking to a foreign security outfit at least for the past two years, if documents released by an international hackers' group are to be believed.

Defence-related correspondence between the Indian embassy in Moscow and Russian entities seems to have been hacked by the Italian cybercrime police, said a report in the Moscow-based Izvestia daily.


The letters have been posted online by ‘Anonymous Hackers for AntiSec operation,' a group campaigning against governments and security outfits.

The group said it hacked the documents from the server of Italy's National Anti-Crime Computer Centre for Critical Infrastructure Protection (CNAIPIC).


Last year there was a spate of reports about hacking attacks on the websites of Indian embassies in Russia, Spain, the U.S. and other countries. At the time it was believed that the attacks had been mounted by Chinese hackers. The Indian embassy in Moscow admitted that it had been attacked but denied any sensitive information was compromised.

This time the embassy said it had “no comment” on the new hacking report.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 30 Jul 2011 14:09

^^ Italians are also extensively snooping on Desh? Might have been for the MMRCA related stuff.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby rajithn » 31 Jul 2011 02:17

aditya.agd wrote:there is neither security nor any policy at the Govt of India level. They live by the day and die by the day. mumbai terrorist attack shows that.

There is no accountability in the govt to anyone.

I am sure we will lose any next major war and also lose a lot of territory this time. Indian defence is a fluke in the real world other than chess.


The GoI may not have a policy or even have an understanding of what "policy" is.

I dont think we will lose any major or minor war! Give our Armed Forces their due, Mr. Aditya. They have performed very well each time a challenge was thrown at them - most time without a cohesive GoI policy or strategy. GoI "policy" or "strategy" may be a fluke or even bought at the right price - not the services.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 01 Aug 2011 05:11

^^^^Indian embassy asked to probe hacking
India has sought a report from its mission in Moscow following a report in the Russian media that sensitive defence information has been stolen by an Italian intelligence agency during the past two years.

According to documents released by an international hackers’ group, the Italian cyber police — the National Anti-Crime Computer Centre for Critical Infrastructure Protection (CNAIPIC) — has been hacking into the Indian embassy’s letters with Russian defence firms, the Izvestia daily said. India, sources said, is looking into the vested interests that could be behind this.

Anonymous Hackers for AntiSec operation, a group campaigning against security agencies and governments, has put online a set of documents allegedly hacked from the Italian cyber police server, which include letters exchanged between the Indian embassy’s air wing and a local company supplying spares for military aircraft.

Izvestia said Italian cyber police had hacked on June 22, 2010 deputy air attache DS Shekhavat’s correspondence with Aviazapchast, a company specialising in the supply of aviation spares, complaining about delays in the shipment of 15 helicopter engines. A reply from the Aviazapchast representative in India written on the same day was also hacked by the CNAIPIC.

The Italian cyber police had also accessed correspondence of the aircraft engine manufacturer NPO Saturn and Ilyushin Aircraft with the Indian embassy in Moscow and the Air Headquarters in New Delhi.

The files put online reveal that besides the Indo-Russian defence cooperation, the CNAIPIC targeted correspondence of Russian nuclear and hydrocarbon majors like Atomstroieksport and Gazprom, Izvestia reported.

The Aviazapchast spokesperson told the daily that there was no leakages from the company and the letters had been stolen from the Indians. Indian embassy cellphone bills from the local Beeline provider were among the hacked documents.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 01 Aug 2011 13:25

Corruption in IB, RAW: How govt plans to tackle it

A committee of secretaries headed by National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon is engaged in drafting a Bill to be introduced in Parliament in the winter or budget session that provides an elaborate mechanism for making the intelligence agencies accountable.

The United Progressive Alliance government has decided to make its intelligence agencies accountable to Parliament for scrutiny in the wake of several goof-ups, failures and misuse of the unlimited funds placed at their disposal.


Rampant corruption in the National Technical Research Organisation, a spy agency created for cyber espionage, that was unearthed by the Comptroller and Auditor General led Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to order a specific law to bring all eight intelligence agencies under scrutiny.


The intelligence community is divided on bringing the agencies under the Parliamentary oversight. The majority is worried that those required to work in secrecy will get exposed and those who are engaged secretly for helping them will face risk of life, impacting the intelligence gathering.

They are not open to the CAG scrutiny and hence there were lot of protests when the previous NSA M K Narayanan sought special audit of NTRO's finances following allegations of wasted funds. The proposed bill will make their audit by CAG mandatory.


Manish Tewari, the Congress MP and party spokesman, introduced a private member's bill titled 'The Intelligence Services (Powers and Regulation) Bill, 2011' in the Lok Sabha in the last session.

He was also present at the seminar on 'Enabling Intelligence in India: Autonomy, Accountability and Oversight', organised by independent Observer Research Foundation.

Much to his surprise, Pillai addressed him directly: "I can assure you that your Bill is not forgotten or put under the table. There may be some red-tape. But it is being studied."


Sources in the Home Ministry said in case Tewari's Bill comes up for discussion during the upcoming monsoon session, Home Minister P Chidambaram will be urging him to withdraw it as the government is itself coming up with own legislation.


Attempting to allay fears of the intelligence community, Tewari pointed out that institutions like CIA and FBI worked efficiently in the US where there is such Congressional oversight.

He also gave the examples of Russia, Germany and Japan where such mechanisms have not affected the functioning of the intelligence agencies.


Citing Japan, US etc is fine but are our leaders as mature as those countries, esp going by the Samjautha blast flip-flop ( for votes), harassing the officers behind Ishrat encounter, Batla encounter etc?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Aug 2011 13:41

If indeed all the intelligence agencies are made accountable to Parliament for scrutiny that would be the best thing that would happen to agency for greater accountability and transparency.

I wonder how much of this deep corruption in the agency has been exploited by our adversary and what damage it has done to national security.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby chiragAS » 01 Aug 2011 14:01

VinodTK wrote:The files put online reveal that besides the Indo-Russian defence cooperation, the CNAIPIC targeted correspondence of Russian nuclear and hydrocarbon majors like Atomstroieksport and Gazprom, Izvestia reported.


:shock:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 01 Aug 2011 17:52

X-posting Kashi's post in TSP dhaga( with my comments):
Not sure if this should be posted here or in the internal security thread..maybe I'll X post it there as well. Highly relevant.
spy-war


Days before the pulchritudinous Foreign Minister of Pakistan, Hina Rabbani Khar, was to meet Kashmiri separatist Yasin Malik in

Lahore on July 25, Indian intelligence knew. Especially after last year’s curfew-ridden months and violence, the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and Military Intelligence (MI) were working overtime in Kashmir. They passed on information to New Delhi that Hurriyat leaders Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq were preparing to leave for New Delhi on the eve of the Pakistan foreign minister’s visit. The mandarins of the Ministry of Home Affairs, the Ministry of External Affairs and the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) that also included officers from Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and IB met. It was decided that if Rabbani met Hurriyat leaders at the Pakistani High Commission in New Delhi, it could be advantage India—the moral high ground of a democracy where dissent is tolerated. It would also expose Pakistan as a country officially encouraging separatism and violence in Kashmir for the world has been watching since the FBI arrested Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) lobbyist Ghulam Nabi Fai who received millions of dollars from the ISI to lobby for Kashmir.

Such is the smoke and mirrors world of espionage—nothing is what it seems to be. “We call it perception management,” says an intelligence officer. “We communicate to the Pakistanis through separatists, especially people like Mirwaiz and Malik. They say one thing in public, but to our counterparts in Islamabad, they say something else in private; after all Mirwaiz’s father was murdered by the ISI, his school burnt down and his aide was recently shot. He has no love for Pakistan. When things get too hot in Kashmir, it is they who tell Pakistan to back off,” adds the officer.


A senior Israeli diplomat posted in Delhi says that Indian intelligence is one of the finest in the world. But information dissemination and coordination among India’s various intelligence agencies are a plague


A RAW official says that Indian intelligence cultivates Pakistani assets as well, but more at home than in Karachi or Islamabad. This is because the ISI keeps all Indians, both visitors and diplomats, on a tight leash. What the Pakistani spy wants in exchange first is sex. That too, they insist on Hindu women only. “Honeytraps are not our style,” says an intelligence officer who has served abroad under diplomatic cover. “But there are enough call girls who are passed off as Hindu women.” Of course, the Pakistani spies are also paid in cash and

expensive foreign liquor in exchange for information.

RAW officials say that Pakistani politicians visiting India —usually delegations of MPs—ask for film actresses and starlets as local entertainment. The ISI connects them to upscale pimps, who then are put in touch with visiting Pakistani politicos. “There are travel restrictions on Pakistanis, so the girls are flown into Delhi,” says an IB source. It makes it easier for the IB to keep tabs on them. As well as compromise the politicians and turn them into potential intelligence assets for the RAW.

There are many cases of successful honeytraps in the saga or intelligence and counterintelligence, but few are revealed. Exposure is usually quick and the diplomat is sent home usually on the first available flight. In one case, a Pakistani female agent compromised an Indian naval attaché posted at the Indian mission in Islamabad. At that time, the naval officer’s uncle was a senior bureaucrat attached to the office of the President of India, which made him a prize asset for the Pakistanis. The Pakistanis also knew he had a glad eye, especially for the wives of fellow officers. They entrapped him with a beautiful female ISI agent working with the Pakistani Navy; they would go off to the Pakistani hill station of Murree for trysts. Then one day, she came up with the standard blackmail line that she was pregnant. The ISI then began to put the heat on him, but the naval officer had the good sense to speak to the Indian ambassador who put him on the first flight out of Islamabad. After debriefing and enquiry, he was asked to resign his commission. There is a similar case that happened in Beijing when an Indian diplomat was having two affairs simultaneously—one with his maid and the other with his Chinese linguist—who were both Chinese agents. While forced to choose, he took the linguist out for dinner to tell her it was over. By mistake, the speed dial button of a friend, a senior Indian diplomat posted in Beijing, was pressed. He then taped the whole conversation. The disgrace claimed the ageing Don Juan, who had less than a year to retire. A RAW officer posted in Beijing remembers a similar case when his friend—a young American diplomat posted as a 3rd Secretary in the Cyber Division who was honeytrapped by a gorgeous Chinese girl—approached him for advice. His counsel was that the young man seek help from the US mission. The American did and was flown home immediately.


read it all....

Confirms few things( IIRC) :

1. IKG did indeed single handedly destroy our intel network in Pak.
2. WKKs are deadly dangerous and TSP actively cultivates them, esp high ranking WKKs.
3. Unsure from the article if we do use or do not use honeytraps against others.
4. Seems that we don't aggressively cultivate assets within Pak due to strong ISI counter-intel.
5. Israelis have a strong network within Desh

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby gakakkad » 01 Aug 2011 19:15

^^^ . I did not like this article on intelligence. For starters it is filled with stuff we already know. The stuff that is 'new' is all fiction . A cheap parody of Forsyth.
Every self respecting SDRE is aware of Gujrals exploits. What did the jackass think? That guy's idiotic fantasy is responsible for 1000s of deaths. (including 11/9 , 26/11 etc) . How could he even sleep at night these days ? I wonder why the RAA chief gave the correct names of the assets. He could have given the names of any random abdul in TSPLAND. The reason why RAW finds recruitment of assets difficult in TSPland is because abduls fear that GOI may do them in every time someone is Gujralesque aman ka aisha fantasies or dreams of the Nobel pieces :) price . The reason is surely not ISIs effective CI. I mean anyone from RAW can easily enter TSP via afghanistan and recruit and wreak havoc to his liking.

The honeytrap aspect discussed here is mostly fictional. He has improvised on the Madhuri episode. I mean no IB agent would divulge such info to media. The comments about Mossad too are fictional . No Israeli embassy employee would ever comment on intelligence issues. Even CIA does not know much about Mossad. A WKK/DDM can hardly get anything. That Mossad and RAA cooperate is well known. But most of it is secret. And their have been a lot of urban legends surrounding the them.

The story about same assets being utilised by multiple agencies is too fictional. An American spy drama "The Burn Notice" often has such a scenario. Bottom line - The reporter hardly knows anything real about the spy world.

Wonder what NRao saar has to say about this.
Last edited by gakakkad on 01 Aug 2011 19:25, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 01 Aug 2011 19:23

The info about mossad's activities in India came from the chap talking. I think this is an authorised article - put out to scare some people. I have heard some fo the stuff in the article before from knowledgable folks, so I know parts of it is true.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby aditya.agd » 01 Aug 2011 19:27

China crosses the LAC at Demchok. What is Indian Defence minister doing??

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Paul » 01 Aug 2011 19:37

The various incidents in the article are all well known and nothing new....The case of the Paki Male mata-hari appeared in Outlook more than 10 years ago. This casanova seduced the wife of a arms dealer in ND and this helped open the doors to the arms establishment in New Delhi. I believe MK Dhar has also alluded to this in his writings. There was another case of a Paki diplomat seducing the sister of journo close to Rajiv Gandhi. Upon being shown proof, RG shunted him out of his inner circle.

While IKG may have caused damage to intel setup in Pakistan, fact of the matter is this has not caused much change in ground situation. Even under Indira Gandhi's rule, the intelligence wars were fiercely contested on both sides. The Gujral doctrine is the starting point for unravelling Pakistan....and this proves the utility of the WKKs.

With Pakistan's weakening economic muscle, it should not be too difficult for the Indian Intel to penetrate Paki establishment. As time goes by, Pakistan will be the ground for waging proxy wars with the 3.5 allies. Similar to Argentina or Turkey in WWII. The key is to find out the modus operandi for countering chines intel apparatus on their stomping grounds. SEAsia and Pakistan will be the two places to counter them. In Pakistan the WKKS will be of invaluable support in penetrating the Paki establishment through honey traps, mushairas, and Bollwood and Booze.

The most serious threat is from the west. They have sent a vishkanya and currently she is ruling our establishment....what can we do about it????

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 01 Aug 2011 19:50

Paul wrote:While IKG may have caused damage to intel setup in Pakistan, fact of the matter is this has not caused much change in ground situation. Even under Indira Gandhi's rule, the intelligence wars were fiercely contested on both sides. The Gujral doctrine is the starting point for unravelling Pakistan....and this proves the utility of the WKKs.

All the intelligence people who came out publicly in later life from Raman to Sood, expressly insisted on the ENORMOUS damage done by the WKK IKG and still regret his rule. Of course they use very very polite language to express the same.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Paul » 01 Aug 2011 20:21

Agreed...however as I said before, the damage done is more than made up though the decay in Pakistan's economic muscle followed by it's image in the west.....One mistake by IKG does not undo the benefits of cross border contact initiated by WKKs. Most Hardline advoactes of Indian interests like JN Dixit have always been in favor of cross communication through WKKs types.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 01 Aug 2011 21:25

paul - yup. A lot of the info is actually well known. He refers to incidents that have already been well reported in the press. However there is a "leak" of some info that really shouldn't be discussed and hasn't been disclosed before imho.

As for IKG - It impacted some aspects of operations. Our nature of pak centric operations have changed- but also because we don't need to do things in the old way (so we are to believe).

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Venkarl » 01 Aug 2011 22:03

There is a similar case that happened in Beijing when an Indian diplomat was having two affairs simultaneously—one with his maid and the other with his Chinese linguist—who were both Chinese agents. While forced to choose, he took the linguist out for dinner to tell her it was over. By mistake, the speed dial button of a friend, a senior Indian diplomat posted in Beijing, was pressed. He then taped the whole conversation.


By mistake? Speed dial? really? :mrgreen: every operative has a dedicated operative(s) in person or as a device hiding somewhere in the jacket's collar, cellphone, pen etc.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Paul » 02 Aug 2011 02:30

I think Pakistan, being a closed society will have the upper hand in the intelligence agencies battle....The exploits of the KGB vis a vis the west come to mind. However they were of little use in winning the cold war.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 02 Aug 2011 08:43

There is a similar case that happened in Beijing when an Indian diplomat was having two affairs simultaneously—one with his maid and the other with his Chinese linguist—who were both Chinese agents.

IIRC, the "diplomat" quoted here was the RAW station chief:

RAW in-charge in Beijing recalled after honeytrap probe

Rabinder Singh, a former RAW operative who disappeared after coming under suspicion of being a CIA agent was helped by the Americans to flee the country, according to RAW officials. They supposedly helped Singh generously when he had a near-fatal car accident in Syria.

Was this Syria accident after he defected or when we was posted from RAW in Syria?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 02 Aug 2011 17:16

posted in Syria. He had asked RAW/GoI to pay for his operation or something like that. No help was offered.

The PRC case was that there were 2 state agencies trying to get him lol. They were competing for the same source.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Aug 2011 19:34

So the guy gets even by spying for uncle. And he was ex- military!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kanson » 03 Aug 2011 22:11

RAW’s operations in Pakistan had been very effective during the Khalistan movement. In the mid-1980s, the agency set up the Counter Intelligence Team-X (CIT-X) and Counter Intelligence Team-J (CIT-J)—two highly covert arms to react with violence within Pakistan whenever a Pak-sponsored massacre happened in Punjab. They were so successful that the ISI chief was forced to ask for a meeting with his RAW counterpart to draw up the rules of engagement on Punjab with the then Jordanian Crown Prince Hassan bin-Talal acting as referee.

I do have a question for the Security minded gents here.

While we were successful with CIT-X and CIT-J during Khalistan period, why we haven't done similar things during Kashmir insurgency from late 80s to early 90s?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 03 Aug 2011 22:26

In above report why did the Jordanian have role in this?

Maybe Kashmir terrorism is different?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 03 Aug 2011 22:41

Kanson wrote:.....
I do have a question for the Security minded gents here.

While we were successful with CIT-X and CIT-J during Khalistan period, why we haven't done similar things during Kashmir insurgency from late 80s to early 90s?


The same article says and we all know that Than PM IKG dismantle RAW set up in pak. I think that caused to fail to form effective set up to CIT in Kashmir.

Ankit

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 03 Aug 2011 22:56

ramana wrote:So the guy gets even by spying for uncle. And he was ex- military!
\

Its sometimes little things like this which cause people to defect. After all, if an agent is injured, shouldnt it be ensured that all care was taken of him or her? We neglect our people, and expose them to outside agencies in the most cavalier manner it seems.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby yantra » 03 Aug 2011 23:51

ASPuar wrote:
ramana wrote:So the guy gets even by spying for uncle. And he was ex- military!
\

Its sometimes little things like this which cause people to defect. After all, if an agent is injured, shouldnt it be ensured that all care was taken of him or her? We neglect our people, and expose them to outside agencies in the most cavalier manner it seems.


Agreed. One of the babus would say - "there is no rule to accommodate your request". Reflects sheer apathy towards our critical "assets". It was US' gain..

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 04 Aug 2011 00:23

I think all that was a justification for his spying. Its not his privilege to sell out to a foreign country.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby krisna » 04 Aug 2011 01:10

India in Slumber: A Nation of Honi M’agel MK Dhar

I would like to share that resilience is the noun form of the verb root resile. One meaning of resile means: Move back in a roughly opposite direction after an impact. Resilience always does not mean elasticity. The media and the political pundits may please keep this in mind.
Dear Honis’ may note that reaction of Mumbaikars and other Indians is not resilience. They are not elastic rubber strips that rebound to original shape after distension. People are compelled to go out of home to earn bread, pursue studies, attend their business and swallow their anger. Anger is not an easily digestible emotion.

If the governments are ready to hear the truth about people’s anger, they may learn about three strains of burning hell-fire in people’s mind: a. accumulation of hatred against a religious minority community; b. lack of confidence in government for failing to restrain the rogue nation of Pakistan; c. anger against systemic failure of the intelligence security machineries and other tools of governance. According to them ‘lack of resilience’ may mean large scale communal carnage and lack of confidence in the present political and governance systems. If rational deductions are drawn from this, it may lead to escalation of ‘Hindu terrorism’, as witnessed in certain incidents. That also may lead to the embedded seed of wider social and national divide and civil strife. No one should forget that creation of Pargya Thakur and Aseemanand type ultras is governed by Newton’s Third Law of Motion: every action has equal reaction. A leader like Digvijay may take fresh lesson from Newton’s theory that is still universally valid.

In the midst of cacophony of confusion certain Muslim organizations have warned the government not to brand any Muslim terror outfit till definite clues were established. Honoring their secular sentiment Chidambaram has ruled that the government was not leaving any option out. If no clue is found than the most convenient goat to sacrifice might be another Modi or Hindu extremists. Certain Muslim organizations in Delhi and central India have already started a whispering campaign on this line. Hope there would be no buyer.

Well! I am not a neuro-specialist to certify that such analysts are having periodical waves in their brains, determined by who pays for the Scotch. India could as well internationally isolate Pakistan by refusing to talk, despite US pressure. Can the US press Pakistan to kill all the terrorist protagonists? Obviously not. It can temporarily tighten the money string. Ultimately USA too would succumb to Pakistani blackmailing. What compulsion India has to succumb to Pakistani bullying? Simply because one Manmohan Singh wants peace with Pakistan during his tenure!

Counter terrorism is a dangerous game of wit. Terrorist are always steps ahead of intelligence. Most IB ground officers lack in tradecraft knowledge and superior wit to beat the terror modules and cells. In most places they do not have even access capability.

In case the armed paramilitary forces are deducted from the existing police strength it would appear that India has one policeman for nearly 5000 people. How can effective policing be performed with this kind of civil police strength? The country needs nearly over 3 million additional civil police for appropriate policing. In a burgeoning economy internal stability and law and order play an important role. This cardinal factor is overlooked by the central and state governments. Expenditure on policing is intricately related to steady growth.

A study indicates that in average a constable aspirant has to pay minimum rupees 2 lac bribe. A sub-inspector aspirant has to pay minimum rupees 5 lac as bribe. Besides this the political masters mint money out of recruitment at different levels. In addition to that the politicians demand huge money from Dy. SP to sub-inspector ranks for posting and transfer to ‘lucrative’ stations. Having entered the force by paying huge bribes, the average policeman leans on the pockets of criminals, mafia gangs and common citizen. Collection of hafta from street vendors, shop keepers and common people is a widely spread disease. A dishonest force is a vulnerable force.

The civil police lower ranks are recruited from various backgrounds and are not well trained in investigation, counterterrorism, and gathering ground intelligence from local BCs (bad characters), HOs (habitual offenders) and even watchful community people. Community policing has not been integrated with Indian policing system. A lower rank is not well compensated for nearly 12-16 hour duty. He looks out for ‘extra income’ through devious channels. Moreover, the Indian police have not yet overcome the colonial hangover and treat common citizen as suspects and milking cows.

Terror related intelligence has three broad divisions: Strategic- advance intelligence regarding location of terror modules and cells and their foreign linkages; Tactical actionable intelligence-advance intelligence about immediate plan and programme of the terrorists; Research and analysis. While some of these aspects are covered by the IB, the state police intelligence lack in expertise in these aspects of tradecraft.

In brief, what messages do we get from the jihadi attacks and acts of political and administrative non-action, proxy war that destroy national fabric, infuse separatism in sections of the Muslims; arouse competitive Hindu resurgence and common citizen’s loss of trust in the governing political and systemic tools?

The messages are simple.

• India is not ready to wake up to the reality that all “M-words” are not secular and all “H-words” are not communal.
• The political parties are required to abandon the street-urchin-psychology of opposing every action of political rivals.
• The State of India and its intelligence and police forces are not adequate to meet jihadist threat. India lacks in systemic tools to fight foreign inspired jihadist elements.
• India refused to accept that sections of its own citizen have been subverted by Pakistani and pre-Hasina Bangladeshi intelligence outfits and jihadi tanzeems.
• India has failed to stop Bangladeshi migration flood.
• The country lacks efficient anti-terrorist Act, faster criminal jurisprudence system and united political will.
• Some political parties continue to suffer from appeasement policy that encourage and embolden the jihadists.
• The State of India is unable to thwart foreign intervention in India’s internal security affairs through diplomatic, geostrategic and military actions.
• Muslim separatism is gaining strength and is being encouraged by certain actions and inactions of the governing tools and by machinations of the neighboring countries.
• Jihad has come to stay and grow in Indian mainland trying to defeat the country from within
• Citizens are losing faith in the governing capability of Indian political and administrative systems.


National Security cannot be made a part of political ideology and historical day-dreaming of unity of the people. Jihad can be fought with actual understanding of the harsh realities and not on the basis of mantras like “ostrich-secularism.”

Indian States (provinces) are not prepared with trained, equipped and motivated and dedicated Intelligence Wings that can take care of jihadi thrusts. Police Intelligence is simply out of date and not tuned to tackle jihadi and terrorist thrusts. They are caught napping all the time.

The Central Intelligence Bureau can perform well. Their abnormal deficiency has occurred because the governments have failed to give more trained, equipped and motivated manpower to the IB. A Security Assistant in IB is equated with a dak delivery peon, process server and daftary, so is the police constable. Why would a process server risk his life for fighting terrorism? How can the citizenry expect protection from a daftary? The nation should not expect best out of a force that is treated by 150 year old civil administration as chaprasis. Motivation is linked to service condition. Absence of Unified Anti-terror law has impeded the methodology of prevention and investigation. Proliferation of agencies has created jurisdictional turf war.

Political color of the government decide attitude of enforcing agencies to jihadist organizations and situations. A Chief Minister in UP decides in his wisdom that SIMI is not a terrorist organization, though the Supreme Court has told SIMI, “You are a terrorist organization.” The government in Kolkata refused to react till a prominent businessman was kidnapped and part of ransom money was used by the ISI in 9/11 attack on America and attack on US Consulate. Political color should not affect war against jihad and terrorism. Hindu resilience should not be taken for granted.

The madrasas, maktabs and certain schools teach hate-campaign. This is required to be monitored and corrective measures are required to be taken. A section of Muslims in India have been infected by jihadi ideology. This is being exploited by Pakistan. Minority pampering is not the answer. The community leaders must be sensitized that rooting of jihadism may harm them in the long run.

India requires something like Homeland Security Act and ancillary administrative, intelligence and investigation agencies. Today even POTA is not enough. Indian political breed should stop thinking in terms of Hindu-Muslim relationship as it existed between the times of Sir Sayid Ahmad and M. A. Jinnah. If we cannot respond as one nation and one people and at the slightest allegation that only Muslims are being targeted in the name of anti-terrorist actions, India cannot avoid looming greater catastrophe.

The damn truth is: what is happening in India is not terrorism. It is jihadist action directed at dividing India.

Is India prepared to face the facts that the international jihadists and subverted Indian Muslims are trying to impose jihad as the final acts of redemption of Islamic glory that once ruled India?

If that be so, let us compose a requiem to Motherland India.


excellent but long article. requires political will with statemenship, not competitive vote bank politics which is sorely lacking today.

VinodTK
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby VinodTK » 04 Aug 2011 04:13

Eye on China’s upgrade, Govt plans 3 key railway lines, one to Tawang
With China in mind, India is embarking on a major infrastructure drive in Arunachal Pradesh, with plans for three railway lines in the border state, including one to connect the strategic Tawang plateau with Assam.

While the Defence Ministry has traditionally been discreet about its infrastructure projects in the North-East, the latest standing committee report has revealed detailed plans to enhance border infrastructure. This includes three “strategic railway lines” that have been proposed: Missamari (Assam) to Tawang, North Lakhimpur (Assam)-Along (Arunachal)-Silapathar (Assam), and Murkongselek (Assam)-Pasighat (Arunachal)-Rupai (Assam).

Of the railway lines that have been proposed, the Tawang line is the most significant, considering the strategic importance of the area which is also a major Indian military base. At present, the only access is via road which frequently closes down in bad weather, or helicopters which again do not operate in adverse weather conditions.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kanson » 05 Aug 2011 10:24

ramana wrote:In above report why did the Jordanian have role in this?

Maybe Kashmir terrorism is different?


Ramana, I'm inquisitive as time difference between two movements is only few years. If CIT team is successful in curbing Punjab militancy, riding on the success why couldn't replicate the same in Kashmir case? I don't know. Do the forum has any idea?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kanson » 05 Aug 2011 10:26

Ankit Desai wrote:
Kanson wrote:.....
I do have a question for the Security minded gents here.

While we were successful with CIT-X and CIT-J during Khalistan period, why we haven't done similar things during Kashmir insurgency from late 80s to early 90s?


The same article says and we all know that Than PM IKG dismantle RAW set up in pak. I think that caused to fail to form effective set up to CIT in Kashmir.

Ankit
No, IKG came to power in late 90s. This predates the IKG goof up.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kashi » 06 Aug 2011 18:44

Manish Tewari introduces Bill on Intelligence Agencies Reforms

Mr. Manish Tewari today introduced a Bill in the Lok Sabha to regulate the functioning and use of power by the Indian intelligence agencies within and outside India and to provide for the coordination, control and oversight of such agencies.

The Private Member's Bill, 'The Intelligence Services (Powers and Regulation) Bill, 2011', could not be introduced in the last session of Parliament because of the political deadlock though it was scheduled on the last day of the session.



Mr. Tewari's Bill seeks to enact a legislation pursuant to Entry 8 of List I of the Seventh Schedule of the Constitution of India to provide the following:

(a) A legislative and regulatory framework for the Intelligence Bureau, the Research and Analysis Wing and the National Technical Research Organisation;
(b) Designated Authority regarding authorization procedure and system of warrants for operations by these agencies;
(c) A National Intelligence Tribunal for the investigation of complaints against these agencies.
(d) A National Intelligence and Security Oversight Committee for an effective oversight mechanism of these agencies; and
(e) An Intelligence Ombudsman for efficient functioning of the agencies and for matters connected therewith.


The Bill stipulates that the day-to-day operation of the R&AW shall be vested in an officer not below the rank of a Secretary to the Government of India who shall be appointed by the Prime Minister and who shall hold office for a period of two years or till he attains the age of sixty-two years, whichever is later.

It also stipulates that the Intelligence Bureau shall function under the control of the Prime Minister. And it shall be the duty of the IB to work for national security in the context of internal conflict and, in particular, provide protection against threats from espionage, terrorist acts organized by other countries within the territory of India with the help of Indian nationals or residents and from actions intended to subvert the Constitution of India by violent means.


The Bill says the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) shall function under the control of the Prime Minister. And the Central Government shall, in consultation with the National Intelligence and Security Oversight Committee, appoint an Intelligence Ombudsman from amongst persons having special knowledge in the field of intelligence to address the grievance of the members of staff and officers of the R&AW, the IB and the NTRO.

The day-to-day operation of the NTRO shall be vested in a Chairman who shall be appointed by the Prime Minister and who shall hold office for a period of two years or attaining the age of sixty-two years, whichever is earlier.


The Bill says there shall be constituted a Committee, to be known as the National Intelligence and Security Oversight Committee to examine the administration and compliance of policy laid down under this Act. The Committee shall, unless it is necessary to perform the functions assigned to it under the Act, not go into the operational aspects and sources of intelligence of the functioning of the R&AW, the IB and the NTRO, as the case may be.

The Committee shall consist of the following:

(a) the Chairman of the Council of States, Chairperson;
(b) the Speaker of the House of the People, Member;
(c) the Prime Minister, Member;
(d) the Minister of Home Affairs, Member;
(e) the Leader of Opposition in the House of the People, Member;
(f) the Leader of Opposition in the Council of States; Member; and(g) one member each from the House of the People and the Council of States to be nominated by the Presiding Officers of the respective Houses, as members.


The Bill also envisages establishing a tribunal to be known as the National Intelligence tribunal, under the chairmanship of a sitting or retired Supreme Court judge, for the purpose of investigating complaints against the R&AW, the IB or the NTRO.


Looks more cosmetic than anything else. No attmept to adress the real issues plaguing Indian intelligence

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby mmasand » 08 Aug 2011 01:26

All BS, we know what Manish Tewari is!

Besides the amendments seem to create more bureaucracy and the presence of such committees and tribunals will only stall the HUMINT operations and create a sense of big brother.These measures are only effective on an effective organisation which our agencies are clearly not.


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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby krishnan » 11 Aug 2011 18:20

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/how- ... 110811.htm
The interrogation of former president of the banned Students' Islamic Movement of India [ Images ] Syed Salahuddin Salar has confirmed that a major part of the terror financing for subversive activities in India come from Saudi Arabia.
Click here!

Salar, who is lodged in a Hyderabad jail for his alleged role in the Dilsukhnagar Sri Saibaba temple bomb blast case in 2002, has been interrogated by the police as well as the Intelligence Bureau over the past couple of days.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby wig » 11 Aug 2011 21:40

excerpts psoted here. worth reading in full
India’s new spy agency spooked by ‘internal spies’ Courtesy RTI and the so-called whistleblowers in NTRO, the organisation has suffered major setbacks
Alarm bells are ringing for India’s youngest spy agency — the National Technical Research Organsation (NTRO) — as many vital “targets” in Pakistan and China under its electronic surveillance have started “disappearing” from its radar.
Recently, extremely sensitive information and documents surfaced in the “public domain” through the RTI route and a special audit of the NTRO. For unknown reasons, an audit by the Comptroller and Auditor-General was ordered by the PMO, making the NTRO the first Indian spy organisation to be scrutinised by the CAG.

The information and papers that have reached the “public domain” relate to the projects, purchases, equipments, locations, officers of the NTRO and many others things. By analysing them, professionals can read hard intelligence.


Thanks to the so-called “whistleblowers” from within the NTRO, and some former officers using the “right to information” weapon, the agency has suffered major setbacks recently.
The NTRO has started feeling the heat as it has discovered that “targets” in Pakistan and China have suddenly stopped using the equipment and channels that it was monitoring.

Obviously, sources said, information about the equipment of the NTRO and officers’ location has been analysed by experts across the border and they have zeroed in on their establishments under Indian surveillance.

All of a sudden, Pakistan and China have shifted to other communication equipment and other mediums. The NTRO is now groping in the dark to retrace the important targets. “At present, we are totally blind about some important equipment and channels to which Pakistan and China have shifted to,” disclosed a source in India’s external espionage agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW).

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110811/main7.htm

ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 11 Aug 2011 21:47

^^^Psy-ops to deflect the CAG corruption probe on NTRO. The PMO ordered the probe based on their misgivings. And CAG did find malfeasence. So first be honest and then you can spy. (Now you cant spy and are accused of corruption.) You can't do the latter unless you are clean and thus not subject to potential blackmail.

* in one of Chanakya's episodes his folks catch the Maurya arms procurement leader and blackmail him into being neutral during the takeover.

Same can happen again. hence the need to be clean when you are running such agencies.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby manum » 11 Aug 2011 22:15

This is pure propaganda to bring it under controversy...they specifically use china and pakistan word to hit the bulls eye...

If we let them go corrupt and likewise, because there are urgent things to deal...then very well we adopt ISI framework...
Or in worst case let Army rule the nation. If they are institutions then they must come under the law of the land...

CAG is equivalent to election commission and supreme court...so what it says is priority as well.


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