Intelligence & National Security Discussion

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53971
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 01 Jun 2012 03:46

The US NDU used to be called NDC and got upgraded to NDU status. The Air Uty etc are force specific colleges.

Indian option is to start a green field NDU or upgrade the NDC. I prefer the greenfield NDU for it can encompass many non-military strategic areas of study.

However so long as INC and IAS babucracy is there, there wont be any INDU.

It goes against their grain of thinking.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby svinayak » 01 Jun 2012 03:56

ramana wrote:The US NDU used to be called NDC and got upgraded to NDU status. The Air Uty etc are force specific colleges.

Indian option sis to start a green field NDU or upgrade the NDC. I prefer the greenfield NDU for it can encompass many non military strategic areas of study.

However so long as INC and IAS babucracy is there, there wont be any INDU.

It goes against their grain of thinking.

India needs atleast 2 or 3 NDU establishment in various corners. North east, South and North west centers.

It should be a place for all knowledgable people to have talks.


RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 02 Jun 2012 07:57

any news about the theft in south and north block that occurred earlier this year?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53971
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 02 Jun 2012 09:32

One more disincentive from Nehru dynasty perspective is the fact that a NDU might develop a nationalist perspective on things which is against their internationalist point of view.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Pranav » 04 Jun 2012 10:36

On the infiltration of the IB by foreign agencies -

While working for South China Morning Post in Delhi in 2000-2001, I was a regular at the Shahe Mardan Shia Imambara in Jorbagh. My close friend, Raghu Nath Behura, a 1979 batch ips officer, was then DD (Pakistan) in the Intelligence Bureau. One day, he showed me a bunch of photographs shot inside the imambara. Spy cameras had caught me sitting on the floor along with 2-3 gentlemen whom I didn’t know. Behura said they were Shia officials of the Pakistani high commission who frequented the imambara and requested me to cultivate them in the national interest.

“We won’t ask you to steal papers or plant a device,” Behura assured me. “Get pally with them. Occasionally we might tell you to mention something while talking to them and report back their reaction. That’s it.” I asked Behura what would happen if the Pakistanis discovered my IB links. Won’t the ISI break my legs in Islamabad or Karachi if professional duties took me to Pakistan, or thrash me in Birmingham or Bradford? Behura replied: “Pakistan hasn’t infiltrated the IB and will never find out. So you needn’t fear for your safety.” Almost as an after-thought, he added: “But God save you if you decide to spy on Americans for us. There will be a race among IB officials to give your game away!”

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281107

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7777
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Sachin » 04 Jun 2012 14:41

Mean while..
Military Intelligence staffer caught trying to sell secrets
Military Intelligence staff caught stealing info for Pak
"The DRI had got intelligence that a staffer working with Military Intelligence was trying to negotiate a deal for passing on classified information. The input was shared with the Army officials and a trap was laid. Following which the staffer was held in Thiruvananthapuram," a senior DRI official, who did not wish to be identified said.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9989
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 04 Jun 2012 14:46

More on this op:
Military Intelligence staffer caught trying to sell secrets

Sources said the soldier was trapped by the Directorate of Revenue Intelligence (DRI) in an elaborate operation that involved a “double agent” and a relative of the soldier in Dubai.


Shivdasan was working for the recently created Technical Support Division (TSD) within MI. This special unit, headed by Colonel Honey Bakshi, is believed to have access to a range of privileged information. The unit had recently come under scrutiny on charges of illegal surveillance, an allegation that was denied by former Army Chief Gen V K Singh who accused retired Lt Gen Tejinder Singh of leaking incorrect information. The TSD unit was created in the last two years and functions from within Army Headquarters.

Sources said the DRI received information on an individual trying to sell “sensitive information” in April. A preliminary probe, sources said, established that Shivdasan had contacted a relative of his in Dubai with an offer to sell classified information. Shivdasan, who hails from Kerala, found it convenient to receive the money at Kochi. His relative got in touch with an “agent” in Dubai to broker the deal. This agent, sources said, turned out to be a DRI informant who is said to have laid a trap for Shivdasan in Kochi.

Prabu
BRFite
Posts: 422
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: In the middle of a Desert

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Prabu » 04 Jun 2012 15:52

Regarding the Outlook article, Please read the coments of a OUTLOOK reader, which explains the author ABDI !

[/quote][/quote]
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281107
This chap Abdi is crazy; I wonder how he got space in Outlook for this silly piece. He declared Mr Kazmi as innocent. And his reason- That he and Kazmi belong to the same religious sect(Shia) and both are journalist!!! Wow!! Since Mr Abdi did not want to help IB or RAW he is sure that Mr Kazmi won’t help Iranians either!!!!!! WOW what logic!! This guy is better than Pakistani conspiracy theorist Zaid Hamid!!! Did this brilliant chap Abdi ever meet Kazmi? No! Did Mr Abdi has any incriminating evidence that Mr Kazmi was framed by Cops? No!! So how on earth sane people can declare Mr Kazmi innocent? I have no clue!! Why would Outlook publish this incredibly mindless, silly and outrageous article??- Mr Vinod Mehta is losing it!! Why is it impossible for Muslims to acknowledge the simple fact that there ARE Muslims who are terrorists??? Why do they have to ALWAYS blame police, intelligence agencies, Israel and America for everything???
========================================================================================
[quote"]On the infiltration of the IB by foreign agencies -

W Behura replied: “Pakistan hasn’t infiltrated the IB and will never find out. So you needn’t fear for your safety.” Almost as an after-thought, he added: “But God save you if you decide to spy on Americans for us. There will be a race among IB officials to give your game away!”

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281107
[/quote]

Abhi_G
BRFite
Posts: 686
Joined: 13 Aug 2008 21:42

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Abhi_G » 04 Jun 2012 18:28

http://maloykrishnadhar.com/

As I was growing up, my father’s work often played at the center stage of some of the turbulent times in India’s history, though often I was too young at that time to realize what was happening. He handled the terrorism desk for years, handling the Khalistan separatist movement, and later the Pakistan sponsored terror in Kashmir and beyond. Again, it is amazing the respect he garnered through his approach to work and life. As he lay critically ill, one of the calls I got was from a man who was once a Khalistani separatist and later joined the mainstream political process. He told me about how many people in Punjab would miss him terribly, because in the midst of a terrible crisis with excesses committed on both sides, he was a rare officer. A man who was willing to listen and empathize without shooting first, yet also a man without fear. One story of my father’s from this period, which he recounted later in one of his books, was of the terror siege at the Golden Temple that came to known as Operation Black Thunder. He pleaded to not deploy crushing force that would have led to high collateral damage but instead had trusted men on the inside whom he wanted to supply. As a senior IPS officer, he could have delegated the terribly dangerous task, but he dressed up as a fruit seller, with a basket of fruit on his head concealing weapons and walked into a complex with hundreds of heavily armed terrorists to get the weapons to his men.


:shock:

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Gaur » 04 Jun 2012 18:50

^^
This reminds me. How is his book "Open Secrets"?

munda
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 27
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 11:02

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby munda » 04 Jun 2012 20:13

India World War Three Scenario - ahead of s m krishna's visit to the SCO summit I would like feedback on this. The west is relentlessly trying to plant WW3, it should be noted that all the previous wolrd wars were planned to an extent and did not occur in a forthnight, to save the western dominance. For that they need France, somewhat weak, although high morals like democracy and freedom of speech. They are trying make India the France of WW3 who will be attacked from all sides (by China and Pakistan), and then in the name of saving democracy wage a big war. And that is why they are trying to alienate India on all sides.

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Gaur » 04 Jun 2012 21:00

^^
Thanks pandyan. Will buy this book.
PS: Please do away with saar. I am neither old enough nor knowledgeable enough to deserve that. :)

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53971
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 04 Jun 2012 21:10

^^^^^

Karan M posted this in the army thread

Karan M wrote:Depressing read about the truth of the Indian system. Please read through - I came across this review while going through MK Dhars eulogy and reading about the person.

Note what his investigations revealed about KGB penetration and how the ruling party completely manipulated the system.

It makes clear what VK Singh and Anna Hazare types (inflexibly honest) are up against.

India’s Intelligence Unveiled

BOOK REVIEW:Open Secrets. India’s Intelligence Unveiled by M K Dhar Reviewed by Sreeram Chaulia

Released when intelligence agencies of major global powers are facing flak for incompetence and fabrication, Open Secrets is the first attempt to break the taboo of shielding the Indian intelligence fraternity under a permanent veil. “As powerful a weapon as a fusion bomb”, (p India’s intelligence infrastructure has been weaponized by the governing class to hit the governed. Like the police, civil administration and judiciary, it has been used as a handmaiden to suit petty political ends and crush constitutional liberties. Dhar, an operative in India’s Intelligence Bureau (IB) for three decades, has a muckraking tale to tell.

Since Indira Gandhi’s time in the 1960s, the IB director has answered solely to the prime minister and home minister. The refusal of political masters to allow induction of expert staff from lateral fields has perpetuated a servile “police culture” in the bureau. “An average IB officer is not oriented with the techniques of war pursued by mujahideen and fidayeen fanatics.” (p13) Non-productive human assets clutter the bureau. Lack of in-service checks fosters a “breeding ground for Goerings and Himmlers in the backyard of constitutional democracy”. (p 1

No meaningful cooperation between state and central intelligence entities exists, especially when different political parties rule at the center and in the states. Coordination among the three prime central agencies, IB, RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) and CBI (Central Bureau of Investigation), is non-existent. The Kargil and Surankote intelligence failures are two glaring illustrations of a divided house of Indian spook (see Kashmir’s snake in the grass June 7, 2003).

Dhar gives a clarion call for freeing intelligence organizations from the machinations of the executive. Legislation to make the agencies accountable to parliamentary committees is a crying necessity. Election prospecting, verifying credentials of ruling party candidates, researching the weaknesses of opposition candidates, toppling and interfering with elected governments and other dirty operations victimizing the innocent are shameful tasks assigned to agencies that should be protecting national security.

As a budding officer of the Indian Police Service in 1965, Dhar learned the nitty-gritty of grassroots intelligence collection in Darjeeling, Siliguri and Naksalbari (northern Bengal). His unusual techniques of raising human assets were encouraged with subventions from the police Secret Service Fund. Meetings with Charu Majumdar and Jangal Santhal, forefathers of India’s extreme Maoist movement, convinced Dhar that violent agrarian revolution was not far off. However, politicians from Calcutta (now Kolkata) and Delhi showed no intentions of addressing the economic woes of the rural populace. “Indian rulers blindly follow the firefighting ideology in dealing with great social and economic fault lines.” (p 71)

In 1968, as a bolt from the blue, Dhar was advised to join the IB in Delhi. The intelligence technocrats he met there were “cast iron cookies” who swore by regimentation and loyalty. The abject submissiveness of officers robbed them of initiative and measured aggression. The IB reeked of factionalism, corruption and nepotism. Trainers treated the ruling Congress Party as Caesar’s wife in the political analysis classes. They totally neglected “economic intelligence” and its relevance to unrest in society. Coastal security was unheard of as a concept. The curricula had a myopic strategic view and general officers were anomalously segregated from technical officers.

Posted to Manipur after training, Dhar was released “into troubled water like a scared fry”. (p 95) Battered by Naga-Mizo rebellions and Meitei agitation for statehood, Manipur was in coma. Dhar raised very sensitive human assets and gained access to inner cores of the Imphal valley. Wanting political and bureaucratic support to survive, he cultivated assets inside the Manipur administration. His reports that Meitei ultras were being taken to Sylhet in East Pakistan for military training were treated as overreactions by the IB headquarters. “They thought that a greenhorn with only about four years experience was trying to act smart.” (p 107) :eek:

On prime minister Indira Gandhi’s visit to the region in 1969, Dhar’s “humint” (human intelligence) inputs on armed disturbances saved the day and exposed the pathetic state of VIP security arrangements. His top-secret negotiations with insurgents succeeded in the conclusive eradication of Mizo militancy from Manipur in 1970. Stalking Naga gangs from hilltop to hilltop on their way to and from East Pakistan was not the only kind of action Dhar took. In 1972, Gandhi’s point persons asked him to topple the Manipur state government. It was the first of many instances of “bleeding in silence at the rape of my conscience”. (p 14 :eek:

Transferred to neighboring Nagaland when underground armies were escalating jungle warfare with Chinese support, Dhar thwarted and neutralized several militant posses. Since Nagas value the family as an institution, his strategy of involving family in work paid dividends. His personal friendships with key rebel leaders such as K Yallay, Z Ramyo and B M Keyho aided the Indian government’s peace talks in 1974-75. His second tryst with unlawful acts came when Delhi called on him to subvert the loyalty of a section of Nagaland’s elected legislature.

In 1975, Dhar was moved to the just-annexed state of Sikkim. He became the first Indian official to fraternize with the deposed king (Chogyal) and bring his sulking loyalists into the mainstream. To observe Chinese posts along the disputed border, he won over numerous transborder agents who made forays deep into Tibet. During Gandhi’s emergency (a sort of martial rule declared in 1975), :mrgreen: he was asked to frame the Chogyal and persuade local politicians to back the bullying Sanjay Gandhi, Indira’s younger son. In 1977, the Janata Party government ordered Dhar to perform a converse action of political prostitution. Such immoral compulsions drove him into mental depression.

In 1979, Dhar was brought back to Delhi to head the IB’s “Election Cell”. Prime minister Charan Singh ordered him to assess “what was required in each constituency to influence the electorate”. (p 233) When Gandhi rode back to power, she asked him to assist the Puri Committee, a tool of political vendetta, to blacken the faces of her opponents. :eek: :mrgreen:

In 1980, Dhar was placed at the USSR counter-intelligence desk of the IB. He identified four central ministers, more than two dozen ministers of parliament, and layers of the armed forces to be on the payrolls of the KGB. His penchant for digging out skeletons forced a hurried shift to the subsidiary bureau in Delhi, practically the “special branch of the Prime Minister’s Office”. (p 252) From the perch, he espied the astonishing influence of Indian Rasputins like Dhirendra Brahmachari, “Mamaji” and Chandraswami. Indian industry bigwig, Dhirubhai Ambani, and other wheeler-dealers approached him for illegal favors. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

{Ambani's sons also rise now in UPA!}

After Sanjay Gandhi’s death, Dhar was commissioned to shadow his widow Maneka and her associates. He was even asked to record the conversation of home minister Zail Singh with a Sikh militant on Indira Gandhi’s instructions. The Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) pressed him to sabotage Devi Lal’s Haryana state government. The entire field machinery of the Delhi IB was mobilized to help the Congress Party win the Delhi municipal elections in 1983. In conspiracy and thuggery, “there was hardly any difference between the durbars [holders of high political position] of Jahangir and the viceroys and those of Morarji Desai and Indira Gandhi”. (p 284)

Dhar was next posted to the Indian mission in Canada with the brief of penetrating the transcontinental Khalistan separatist network. The RAW representatives in Ottawa resented his presence and raked up a turf battle. Dhar accessed extremist Sikh Gurdwaras and sections of the vocal Sikh community. Diplomatic assets ferreted out useful information on Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) links with Sikh secessionists. Dhar ’s uncorroborated information about a terrorist attack involving an Indian aircraft was not taken seriously by Canadian authorities, leading to the Air India Kanishka bombing in 1985. :( :eek:

Returning home in 1987, Dhar joined the Punjab cell of the IB. He vehemently opposed the government policy of “filling up the follies of fault lines with dead bodies”. (p 320) Unlike his colleagues, Dhar’s operations avoided mindless killings of civilians. He drove wedges between feuding Sikh terrorist leaders and outfits and facilitated two secret peace initiatives of prime minister Rajiv Gandhi. Home minister Buta Singh’s own underground group spoilt one demarche. Singh, the Punjab governor, state police and a jealous section of IB officers stonewalled the second plan. One IB faction opposed to Dhar leaked out the identity of a valuable asset and sacrificed him to the bullets of a Khalistani hit squad. Be it Punjab or Nepal, “agent safety was not a part of IB’s professional ethics”. (p 491)

Promoted to the Pakistan Counter-Intelligence Unit (PCIU) in 1988, Dhar launched transborder agents to penetrate Pakistani posts on the Punjab and Rajasthan borders. Rajiv Gandhi’s lackey, Mani Shankar Aiyar (presently a central minister), instigated a crude incident of arresting a Pakistani “cover diplomat” against the counsel of Dhar. :mrgreen: The prime minister’s troubleshooters and some of their IB acolytes naively propped up the Bodoland and Gorkhaland agitations in Assam and Bengal.

At PCIU, Dhar discovered that Mulayam Singh Yadav (later defense minister) was in clandestine contact with the ISI. 8) 8) Sincere IB efforts to nab mujahideen and Pakistani agents were frustrated by key Indian politicians in Delhi, Bihar and Bengal. Undeterred, Dhar helped the IB regain a toehold in the Kashmir Valley and penetrated some jihadi training camps in Pakistan.

In 1989, Dhar aided the Assam operations of the IB. The collaboration of politicians and bureaucrats had whetted sub-nationalist aspirations in Assam. After creating Frankensteins, the state government was incapable of planned military action against the ULFA (United Liberation Front of Assam). Infected layers within the Assamese regime divulged advance information about Indian army plans and allowed insurgents to cross over into friendly Bangladesh. Fat amounts from the Secret Service Fund of the IB for “missions” in Assam were never utilized for the putative purpose.

In 1991, Dhar was posted a chief of the IB’s secret technical wing. Groupism and favoritism ruled in this “breeding ground of inefficiency”. (p 423) Policing mentality occluded opening the doors of intelligence to scientific specialists. The abject condition of Indian intelligence’s cipher breaking cost the life of Rajiv Gandhi. Ministry mandarins and greasy alley manipulators defeated Dhar’s reform proposals. Apart from diplomatic constraints on aggressive intelligence collection, he was enjoined by diehard Gandhi family hangers-on to record exotic audio and videotapes about a romantic liaison of P V Narasimha Rao, just before his confirmation as prime minister in 1992.

Back at PCIU, Dhar busted many ISI networks across India and tapped “fountain organizations” that hovered over the peripheries of Islamist outfits. Frustrated by red tape, he took unapproved measures to raise “talents” inside Nepal and Bangladesh for mapping ISI fields. Certain “special projects” penetrated targets in Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore and Peshawar.

In November 1992, prime minister Rao ordered Dhar to arrange a discreet meeting with the supremo of the RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh), the fountainhead of Hindutva. The wily Congressman actually had “old linkages with the Sangh as a student”. (p 466) Reminded that the stability of Rao’s job depended on subordination, the PMO tried to force Dhar to “cooperate” with the Ambanis by implicating their corporate rivals.

Dhar’s final struggle was against the erroneous persecution of fellow IB officers who honestly investigated the infamous ISRO (Indian Space Research Organization) espionage case of 1994. Mention of the prime minister’s son as a suspect rushed Rao to prevail upon the Kerala state government and the CBI director to “go slow” and bury the trail. The accused were exonerated without due process. Indian rocket/missile security was compromised. Dhar’s efforts after retirement to get the case reopened invited death threats and assassination attempts.

Open Secrets is a depressing hidden camera fixed on the systemic failures of Indian polity and intelligence. It illuminates the weaknesses of India’s national security setup and exhorts urgent patchwork.


LINK
http://maloykrishnadhar.com/


Explains the penchant for retired folks to bat for INC no matter what and act as IB is the secondary organization to keep INC in power.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9989
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 04 Jun 2012 21:12

Gaur wrote:^^
This reminds me. How is his book "Open Secrets"?

Gaur-ji,

I felt it was worth every paisa spent. I keep reading it again and again when bored due to the amazing tit-bits.

Hope that Shri.Doval also writes a book sometime and we all get a glimpse of the stuff he has done.

Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Gaur » 04 Jun 2012 23:20

^^
Sum ji,
Thanks for the feedback. Since I am almost totally ignorant regarding this field, I felt it was better to ask fellow members' opinion. I find it easier to trust than media reveiws.
Anyway, have placed my order on flipkart. :)

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9989
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 12 Jun 2012 22:33

PM’s strategic advisory body NSC faces nepotism

After the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO), whiff of nepotism and irregular appointments are emanating from the National Security Council (NSC), the country’s apex body that advises the prime minister on strategic issues.

Headed by National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon, the NSC secretariat has been accused of hiring people, violating employment rules. “In some cases, persons having less academic qualification have been taken in for doing sensitive job of national security,” sources said.

It is learnt that NSC secretariat had sought extension of services for two assistant directors last year, in July and February. But their cases were shot down when the files were sent to the Prime Minister’s Office for approval.

The NSC, which is responsible for articulating perceived threats and preparing strategy for the country, comes under the PMO. Despite the PMO objection, the NSC secretariat is alleged to have gone ahead and brought them back into the fold by appointing them “consultants” to the National Security Review Task Force.



The intelligence agencies is also said to have trawled through the allegations since the NSC deals with classified information.

The council secretariat works with three integrated branches - Strategic Policy group, Joint Intelligence Committee and the National Security Advisory Board. Apart from top officials drawn from various services, Union ministers of defence, external affairs, finance, home and Deputy Chairman of Planning Commission are members of the secretariat.

Though NSC saw its birth in 1999 through an executive order during the NDA regime, it has been criticized by the strategic experts for failing to publicly outline the country’s broad threat assessment. There is no official document compiling national security, despite the country facing immense threat of various nature from countries as it climbs up the ladder in the new world order.

Even the NTRO reports to NSA Shiv Shankar Menon and comes under the PMO. A Comptroller and Auditor General secret report had indicted the NTRO broadly on two counts - for hiring officials on their whims and fancies and committing irregularities in purchase of Unmanned Arial Vehicles.


ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53971
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 12 Jun 2012 23:53

Has spelling mistakes all over and regurgitates old charges.

RAW was and is called Relatives and Wives Association.

Bharath.Subramanyam
BRFite
Posts: 131
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 00:17

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Bharath.Subramanyam » 13 Jun 2012 09:54

B. Raman's latest post
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?281267


My god, this is the kind of people who ran RAW & counter intelligence in our country. No wonder we are in such a terrible state with respect to 26/11, Kargil, Maoists, Kashmir etc.


Gurus: Will majority of RAW & IB filled with these kind of people ? Or it is just some crazies (who get media attention).

Some times not able to believe what Brihaspati ji says (that INC Rashtra apparatus uses effective Intelligence forces on political causes or its own selfish purposes). With this kind of competence, don't know whether intelligence people can even help INC & its minions.

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 13 Jun 2012 10:37

B Raman tweet: Recd some E-mails asking whether my blog post on Priyanka is a sarcastic piece. It is not. It is a serious piece after lot of reflection.

Wow this guy must be sniffing glue. What exactly are Priyanka's credentials besides helping her husband loot this country? Concentrating gandhi power and sidelining MMS to ELECTRIFY ECONOMY...vah vah after all his reflection this is what he comes up with...what a joke...

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 13 Jun 2012 11:18

Well the fact is Congress will eventually rule this country atleast half the time and if congress comes to power it will only be the Gandhi family that will rule directly or by proxy ..... Priyanka is a better bet than Rahul but forces within congress dont want to see her come to power so they project Rahul even though he is not good for the role.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11548
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 13 Jun 2012 13:22

RoyG wrote:B Raman tweet: Recd some E-mails asking whether my blog post on Priyanka is a sarcastic piece. It is not. It is a serious piece after lot of reflection.

Wow this guy must be sniffing glue. What exactly are Priyanka's credentials besides helping her husband loot this country? Concentrating gandhi power and sidelining MMS to ELECTRIFY ECONOMY...vah vah after all his reflection this is what he comes up with...what a joke...


No its a Brilliant move, no longer can the spin of ills be blamed on MMS, If the present economic difficulties can be attached to dynasty where it belongs then INC will be doomed.

PS: INC will never take such a decesion, Media masters will plant on a scapeboat, RIght now MAMTA is responsible for all ils from 2G to NAC created problems to CWG. I think by 2014 it will be MMS.

Media now belives that a gullible Indian Public with short memory can belive anything.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 15 Jun 2012 00:07

Word a week or so ago was that Naresh Chandra report has been censored by PMO, PMO have asked to remove all KRC/NDA related govt related issues - so its gone back for editing, but still token references to KRC exist. They want to make this a UPA document on national security. :roll: But as long as the key bits have been disseminated to the right people, it doesnt matter and the report that is released to the public is just that - for the public.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53971
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 15 Jun 2012 02:04

shyamd wrote:Word a week or so ago was that Naresh Chandra report has been censored by PMO, PMO have asked to remove all KRC/NDA related govt related issues - so its gone back for editing, but still token references to KRC exist. They want to make this a UPA document on national security. :roll: But as long as the key bits have been disseminated to the right people, it doesnt matter and the report that is released to the public is just that - for the public.


Not really. This is a INC curse that they tailor intelligence to suit their world view. This is what causes repeated intelligence failures which IB and RAW get blamed for. However they deserve it for keeping the INC in power.

Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Virupaksha » 16 Jun 2012 02:05

shyamd wrote:Word a week or so ago was that Naresh Chandra report has been censored by PMO, PMO have asked to remove all KRC/NDA related govt related issues - so its gone back for editing, but still token references to KRC exist. They want to make this a UPA document on national security. :roll: But as long as the key bits have been disseminated to the right people, it doesnt matter and the report that is released to the public is just that - for the public.

Wasnt Raman also on the drafting commitee?

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 16 Jun 2012 15:42

Secret MI funds usage records are being dug up to fix VKS - expect to hear something on this soon.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11548
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2012 16:22

That is reidculous, he has retired , any honest person would haveleft him alone. The fact that such vendeta is taking place, seems hs exposure has rubbed certain powerful people int he wrong way.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 16 Jun 2012 17:06

^^ Think of the nat sec implications - sources could get revealed. DGMI is pretty good at its job.

----------
ODNI on the lines of the US - I said this was a post 26/11 plan last february, that was proposed by MKN.

Single authority oversight for intelligence agencies favoured
Sandeep Joshi
Share · Comment · print · T+

The Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA), in its report on reforms in the intelligence setup, has recommended bringing all agencies under Parliamentary scrutiny, while suggesting that a single authority be put in charge of all agencies, civil and military.

In its report — A Case for Intelligence Reforms in India — the IDSA, an autonomous body funded by the Ministry of Defence, has advocated providing these agencies a legal framework for their existence and functioning. The report suggests a single authority for supervisory control. He could be the National Security Adviser in a modified role, Director of National Intelligence, or even a Minister for National Intelligence, answerable to Parliament, it adds.


Modernisation

Pointing out that modernisation of the intelligence machinery is a prerequisite for security, the IDSA recommended extensive reforms in the recruitment and training processes of personnel, their pay structures and career progression, to attract the best talent available. It has also suggested that recruitment to various agencies be widened so as to have experts from myriad fields, such as science and technology, information technology and communications, rather than reserving these agencies exclusively for the police sector.

Referring to the vexed issue of coordination between the civilian agencies like the Intelligence Bureau and the Research and Analysis Wing and those of the armed forces like Military Intelligence, the report, compiled by the IDSA task force, advocated putting them on an even keel, so that there is greater interaction. The task force comprised the former Special Secretary in the Cabinet Secretariat, R. Banerji, IDSA consultant P.K. Upadhyay, while inputs were also provided by the former National Security Adviser Brajesh Mishra, the former IDSA Director (late) K. Subrahmanyam, and intelligence experts G.C. Saxena, A.K. Verma, Ajit Doval.

The task force was set up after the Mumbai terror attacks in November 2008, as experts called for holistic reforms. The report analyses the factors that impede good intelligence at various stages of collection, initial analysis, inter-agency cooperation and assessments, and what can be done to improve assessments and human resources. It also examines the related issue of the necessity for regular and periodic briefings of the political executive, after they receive the intelligence input in a processed form.

Even Vice-President M. Hamid Ansari had talked of the need of intelligence agencies being made accountable, and made to function under some sort of legal cover. Last year, Congress MP Manish Tewari had introduced a Private Member's Bill in the Lok Sabha, seeking to regulate the functioning and power of the intelligence agencies.

nits
BRFite
Posts: 1001
Joined: 01 May 2006 22:56
Location: Some where near Equator...

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby nits » 16 Jun 2012 17:33

Gaur wrote:^^
Sum ji,
Thanks for the feedback. Since I am almost totally ignorant regarding this field, I felt it was better to ask fellow members' opinion. I find it easier to trust than media reveiws.
Anyway, have placed my order on flipkart. :)


Sorry OT but next time order books on Indiatimesl i also ordered Open Secret from Indiatimes and got 30% discount...

Sorry for OT

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9989
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 16 Jun 2012 19:06

shyamd wrote:Secret MI funds usage records are being dug up to fix VKS - expect to hear something on this soon.

And this govt stoops even lower when it already seems to have reached its nadir..pathetic!

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 17 Jun 2012 04:38

Hmm.... so NM using intel for political purposes too...
Sleeping with enemy
The neatly printed posters praising Sanjay Joshi and taking a potshot at Narendra Modi which surfaced recently in Delhi and Gujarat were traced by the Gujarat Chief Minister’s intelligence team to Gordhan Zadaphia’s men. The one-time VHP activist, who has formed his own Mahagujarat Janata Party (MJP), invited Keshubhai Patel, Suresh Mehta and other known Modi baiters to address a rally for tribals where Joshi was defended. While it was legitimate for Zadaphia and Mehta to belittle Modi since they are no longer in the party, the octogenarian former chief minister Patel continues to be a member of the BJP. Despite his anti-Modi utterances, there is no move to expel him. This has confirmed Modi’s suspicion that Patel and Joshi are backed by a powerful section in the BJP and the RSS, including Nitin Gadkari. The party president may have ditched Joshi temporarily, but it is a tactical retreat. He could be biding time, waiting to be elected president for a second term in December before showing his hand.

.....

High-security zone

The Israeli embassy in Delhi has tightened its security drill after the car bomb explosion on an Israeli diplomat in February this year. A number of embassy personnel live in South Delhi’s posh Vasant Vihar in close proximity to each other. A dozen armed commandos carrying walkie-talkies patrol the private colony, much to the irritation of local residents. The Indian government appears to have given special permission to the embassy not to use CD number plates on a large number of vehicles. Even before the car bomb attack, the Israelis had torn down the old embassy building on Aurangzeb Road to build a new highly fortified structure with sophisticated surveillance devices.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 17 Jun 2012 21:23

http://www.idsa.in/book/ACaseforIntelli ... rmsinIndia

For those interested in National Security and Intelligence reforms - here is the link for the IDSA Special Task force report on intel reforms.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6823
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 18 Jun 2012 00:04

If they get their acts together - I think they have a big opportunity because economy is heading into doldrums thanks to UPA policies. But NDA are so internally split (they are screwing up the golden opportunity) and efforts are on to unite the leadership for the elections - doesnt seem to be working too well though. If they want to win, they better get their acts together.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9989
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 18 Jun 2012 08:08

Security agencies suspect 4 Jammu and Kashmir cops of gun-running

The arrest of four Jammu and Kashmir policemen for alleged links with militants has caused serious concern to central security agencies which suspect that they may have been involved in gun-running and extortion in connivance with some senior officers of the force.

The central intelligence agencies have sought access to the arrested policemen but the state police wants to complete its preliminary investigation into the matter before giving access to them.

"We will be providing access to all of them once our preliminary probe is over. After all its the Jammu and Kashmir police which blew the cover over this," Director General of Police K Rajendra said over phone from Srinagar.


Surprisingly, among those nabbed is constable Mukhtiar Sheikh, who was arrested in the aftermath of 26/11 attacks in Mumbai for supplying SIM cards to Lashker-e-Taiba terrorists. But the case was dropped against him later on the ground that he was trying to infiltrate into the terror group.

The constable ran short of luck when two of his other colleagues were picked up for interrogation after their conversation with members of banned Hizbul Mujahideen terrorists operating in Tral area of South Kashmir, official sources said.

Besides Sheikh, those arrested were Mohammed Abbas, Riyaz Ahmed and Mohammed Illyas and all of them have been booked under section 10 (being member of an unlawful organisation), section 13 (any form of assistance in unlawful activity) and section 18 (conspiracy to commit terrorist act) of the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act. (More) All of them were in direct control of senior officials of the Zonal Headquarters of Jammu and Kashmir Police.

Sources in the central security agency said attempts to question the four constables have been turned down by the Jammu and Kashmir Police so far prompting them to send a detailed note to the Union Home Ministry explaining the ramification of the case which includes a possible involvement of some senior state police officials.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9989
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 18 Jun 2012 08:43

Came across this snipper in a article on Pranab:
Why Pranab Mukherjee is NOT an ungenerous man

This happened as recently as December 2008. An angry Congress president, Sonia Gandhi, had convened a meeting of the Congress Working Committee after terrorists had attacked Mumbai killing more than 170 people, to send a strong message and also pave the way to sack some ministers.

Gandhi didn't lose her temper but let principal troubleshooter Pranab Mukherjee do as he liked. One after another, senior members of the CWC got up to demand that India launch an attack on Pakistan to teach that country a lesson.

Finally, when veteran Kashmir leader Karan Singh demanded the same, Mukherjee erupted: "Do you understand what you are all saying? If we do that (attack Pakistan), foreign forces will enter Kashmir the next day. We have kept them out of Kashmir all these years. And now you want us to invite them in?"


Prime Minister Manmohan Singh quickly intervened to support Mukherjee and defuse the tension. Meanwhile, some members quietly ascertained that the reporters waiting outside hadn't heard what Mukherjee was saying -- he was speaking so loudly.

What foreign forces is he talking about?

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 18 Jun 2012 11:23

China's is the only foreign force that can appear in a short time frame, even if "next day" is an exaggeration. Dhoti shivering at the future Presidential level?

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6333
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 18 Jun 2012 11:28

And St.Antony had nothing to say about this remark? Great.

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 18 Jun 2012 11:50

Browbeating ourselves into accepting defeat. INC zindabad.

chiragAS
BRFite
Posts: 169
Joined: 16 Nov 2006 10:09
Location: INDIA
Contact:

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby chiragAS » 18 Jun 2012 17:28

Probably he was more worried about usual susupects(UN etc) entering than china.
though highly unlikely but you never know when the Greatest country does a summersault for keeping its rent boy happy.
"Next day " refers not to deployment of foreign troops but international political moves by one and all. statements and call of peace , and making an big issue of Kashmir and backing up (reasoning) the attack as in response to kashmir issue.

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6333
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 18 Jun 2012 17:39

So we are now afraid of statements and calls for peace too? I dont think so. He was referring to China or some such force.


Return to “History & Current Affairs Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest