Intelligence & National Security Discussion

ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Feb 2009 10:54

AWMATA!!!
vikram Soodji, comes to same conculsion as I have been advicating since kargil!!!!

RAW should break out of 'iron cage' of bureaucracy: Sood

New Delhi, PTI:

Observing that the RAW was not conceived as a central police organisation, former head Vikram Sood said, in the present scenario, when "the terrorist is invariably a step or two ahead of the counter-terrorist" the agency should get talent from wherever it could.

Recommending that RAW should break out of the "iron cage" of bureaucracy, its former chief has said the external intelligence agency should be allowed to recruit professionals and outsource select activities to the private sector to get the best talent and expertise.

Observing that the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) was not conceived as a central police organisation, former head Vikram Sood said, in the present scenario, when "the terrorist is invariably a step or two ahead of the counter-terrorist" the agency should get talent from wherever it could.

"Unfortunately the Indian Police Service still assumes it should have primacy in the RAW and the result has been a constant and a debilitating battle between the in-house and the IPS," the former Secretary (R) of the Cabinet Secretariat said in an article in the 'Indian Defence Review'.

Maintaining that this was not to overlook the contributions made by several outstanding intelligence officers belonging to the IPS, he said "these officers would have been outstanding anywhere. It is just that the requirements have changed today.

"Besides that an exam passed five, ten or 20 years ago does not qualify a man or a woman as an intelligence officer ... the brightest no longer join the civil service," he said.

Asserting that the intelligence agencies have not been allowed to be flexible to meet the evolving threat, he said this meant recruitment from the open market.

Maintaining that the regular UPSC recruit, however bright, "will not suffice", Sood said, an intelligence agency "needs language skills, in depth knowledge about the target country and its cultural mores, technology experts, computer whiz kids, military men, financial experts and bankers who can help trace the financial trails of the terrorists, the ability to link the terrorist with arms and drug smugglers."

He said this required recruitment of scientists, area experts, political analysts, university dons, journalists, economists and those with special skills.

"Ideally, an external intelligence agency should be able to pay its personnel well but be able to hire and fire for non-performance.

"It cannot afford to carry disgruntled men and women in its ranks. Promotions throughout will have to be performance based and not linked to seniority," Sood said.

Asserting that this meant having to "break out of the iron case of bureaucracy," the former RAW chief said recruitment in the open market from colleges and universities should be carried out, like the CIA, Mossad or British SIS.

Since a banker or a finance wizard would not give up his fancy job to take up a low-paid government assignment, the problem could be overcome by outsourcing certain jobs, like the Pentagon and CIA do with private defence and technology giants, he added.


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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 09 Feb 2009 11:46

Vikram Sood, unless I am mistaken, is the one non-IPS chief that the R&AW ever had.

The last IPS chief, Chaturvedi, was, as far as I know, a sordid failure. There is too much tendency to assume that because one managed to pass ONE exam in ones life, one is qualified to lead everything from NSG, to Border Security, to Local Police, to External Intel, to CI ops, when without proper training none of this means anything at all!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RayC » 09 Feb 2009 12:57

Intelligence services require people with an analytical mind and a 'sixth sense' to sniff out issues that are incongruous.

Therefore, it can be suggested that when selecting personnel there should be test to see if the person is psychologically suited for intelligence services or not.

However, the unfortunate part is that all govt services tend prefer a bureaucratic approach and very rule bound, apart from not 'daring to disagree' with the official view!

It was an eyeopener to listen to the terrorists' radio intercepts and analyse on one's own to plan actions, while also having the official analysis!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 10 Feb 2009 00:46


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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 12 Feb 2009 08:27

Pakistan arrests 3 alleged RAW spies

TSP's attempt to become the victim.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation

Postby Rahul M » 12 Feb 2009 09:03

Very interesting tid bit.

vivek and jagan take note.

The Il-76 that was involved in the near collision at jorhat is from ARC says IAF EAC ! :wink:
(from a bengali daily. they reported "IL-76 not ours, it's from ARC". of course they(the daily) didn't bother to expand ARC :) and I doubt the reporter knows what it stands for.)

While ARC holding IL-76 is known, this is one of the few occasions when something else about them comes out.

added later : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 111498.cms

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby KiranM » 12 Feb 2009 10:24

^^^ Deccan Herald carried this snippet and expanded ARC properly, though they expanded RAW as Research and Analytical Wing. BTW in DH, they said that plane was on an intelligence mission. Wonder if they inferred that from the plane being uder ARC or somebody actually told them so. :?:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby nsa_tanay » 12 Feb 2009 15:21

@AmitR, thanks for the info pal.

@Tanay : I do not know what type of engineering you have done. But if you are from computer science and are really strong in cryptographic analysis and algorithm development you ca surely join IB (I know you want to join RAW but lets start somewhere). Here are the details of the job that you may want to apply for.

Please note all these are govt jobs and have the standard rules and regulation like reservations etc. Visit uspc.gov.in frequently and subscribe for Employment News from your newspaper dealer for latest info.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Code: Select all

(Ref.No.F.1/243/2008-R-II) One Programmer in Joint Cipher Bureau(JCB), Department of Defence(R&D), Ministry of Defence.  The post is reserved for OBC candidates.    Qualifications :  Essential :  Educational :   A- i) M.Sc Degree in Mathematics/Mathematical Statistics/Operations Research from a recognized University or equivalent.  ii) Three years’ experience in Electronic Data Processing work including experience of actual programming OR  B- i) B.E. in Electronics, Computer Engineering, Communication Technology from a recognized University or equivalent.  ii) Two years’ experience in Electronic Data Processing work including experience of actual programming.    DUTIES :  Research, Design and Development in Cryptology.  Application of mathematical, Statistical and other scientific techniques pertaining to cryptology.  Computer based programming writing and establishing Progoramme segments and modules on given cryptological   problems.  Compilation/Editing and processing/document production pertaining to certain code systems.  Safe Custody, Accounting and Distribution of Cryptological documents according to the security Instructions already laid down.  HQ :  Delhi.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 13 Feb 2009 02:22

Rahul M wrote:Very interesting tid bit.

vivek and jagan take note.

The Il-76 that was involved in the near collision at jorhat is from ARC says IAF EAC ! :wink:
(from a bengali daily. they reported "IL-76 not ours, it's from ARC". of course they(the daily) didn't bother to expand ARC :) and I doubt the reporter knows what it stands for.)

While ARC holding IL-76 is known, this is one of the few occasions when something else about them comes out.

added later : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 111498.cms


One of the news agencies reported that the planes were from ARC's Dum Duma base and on a mission. wonder what they have to do all the way down there in Mumbai?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 13 Feb 2009 07:07

mumbai ? this happened in jorhat.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 13 Feb 2009 08:47

Rahul M wrote:mumbai ? this happened in jorhat.

I think Nikhil is confused beteen the Mi-17 and Il-76 incidents.
The Mi-17 incident happened in Mumbai while the Il-76 one happened in Jorhat.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby vishal » 13 Feb 2009 16:21

The Surveillance-Industrial Complex
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/books ... html?fta=y

Extract: “Probably the best place within the entire region to install a listening post is the Indian city of Mumbai,” James Bamford writes in “The Shadow Factory: The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America,” his latest book about the all-seeing, all-hearing National Security Agency. Without question, he says, Mumbai, India, “represents the kind of location where the N.S.A. would seek to establish a secret presence.” And such a place, he notes elsewhere in his book, “presents an extremely tempting target for terrorists.”
::
::
But let’s go back to India for a moment. Why would Mumbai be such a valuable listening post for the N.S.A.?
::
::
Mumbai, as it happens, has the central switch for much of Asia and virtually all the cables of the Middle East.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby KiranM » 13 Feb 2009 17:04

AoA!!
:eek:

Is that why RAW didnt want to hand over ComInt to NTRO?!

What is the veracity of the above snippet? Any gurus can throw some light?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 13 Feb 2009 18:16

Is that why RAW didnt want to hand over ComInt to NTRO?!

Comint isnt with NTRO? :eek:

So, NTRO just keeps track of Sat imagery and nothing else?

Also, since all the equipment used by RAW for any activity is foreign made/procured, what is the guarentee that other agencies aren't accessing everything we see through backdoors?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby KiranM » 13 Feb 2009 18:30

^^^ Sum ji, I thought that was general knowledge. NTRO is mandated for TechInt, but is a non starter. All the reports of RAW vs NTRO turf battle, MKN chiding NTRO, etc. Read from newspaper reports FWIW.

Considering the goldmine of info that can be tapped if that snippet is true, RAW may not handover that easily. Then they wouldnt be left with any source (especially their HumInt being poor :roll: )

As far as I know DIPAC, under DIA, was mandated for ImInt.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby KiranM » 13 Feb 2009 18:34

sum wrote:Also, since all the equipment used by RAW for any activity is foreign made/procured, what is the guarentee that other agencies aren't accessing everything we see through backdoors?


We can be pretty much sure there will be backdoors. Am sure India would do the same if we exported any such equipment to any other country (sigh! if that day comes :(( ). Unless GOI decides to be morally generous that is.
Last edited by KiranM on 13 Feb 2009 18:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 13 Feb 2009 18:37

If that is he case, there is no need for NSA/CIA to set up their posts in India since the RAW will anyways be doing the job for them!!!! :-?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby KiranM » 13 Feb 2009 18:41

sum wrote:If that is he case, there is no need for NSA/CIA to set up their posts in India since the RAW will anyways be doing the job for them!!!! :-?


Yup, we will see when there are orders for equipment from Yehudi/ Massa land. Then the author of that snippet will be proved right. The 'best' part will be India paying them money rather than getting paid for the info.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby AmitR » 13 Feb 2009 21:26

I am sure that this news will create a lot of controversy in Fakistan. All along Fakistan has been crying foul over the Amriki drone attacks. But now it seems that those attacks were actually launched by the help of Fakistanis. Now we know why Fakis are getting paid billions of $$ every year.

WASHINGTON: A senior US lawmaker told a Senate intelligence hearing that CIA Predator drones attacking high-value militant targets in Pakistan are operating out of bases within the country. The disclosure was made by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

According to the Chicago Tribune, former US intelligence officials speaking on condition of anonymity have confirmed that the Senator's statement is correct.

Feinstein's comment came in response to a question regarding Pakistani opposition to Predator drones operating within their sovereign territory. 'As I understand it, these are flown out of a Pakistani base,' she told the hearing. Phil Lavelle, a spokesman for Feinsten, said her comment was based on previous news reports.

Drone attacks within Pakistan have been the subject of controversy in Islamabad with opposition parties arguing that unilateral strikes within Pakistani border by US forces are a threat to national sovereignty. The US claims the strikes have been very valuable in taking down dozens of high-value targets operating within the northwest tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 13 Feb 2009 22:08

Peshawar?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 13 Feb 2009 22:11

KiranM wrote:
sum wrote:If that is he case, there is no need for NSA/CIA to set up their posts in India since the RAW will anyways be doing the job for them!!!! :-?


Yup, we will see when there are orders for equipment from Yehudi/ Massa land. Then the author of that snippet will be proved right. The 'best' part will be India paying them money rather than getting paid for the info.

The most compelling reason to always have more of HUMINT than TECHINT, esp if you manufacture 0% of the gadgets required for TECHINT/snooping.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby AmitR » 13 Feb 2009 22:16

sum wrote:Peshawar?

Peshawar is a known airport from where Gunship helicopters are launched for attacks on Taliban, in addition it is a dual use (civil and military). Mushaf airbase looks better one to handle and maintain the drones.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 15 Feb 2009 01:08

Seems to be missed. Hope for the best now with KC Verma in.
SPECIAL REPORT: New Era, New Hope at India's Intelligence Agency
KC Verma has taken up the reigns as the head of India's external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). This comes after one of the most protracted and controversial contests to succeed Ashok Chaturvedi, who during his two year tenure as head of RAW, has blighted the agency with personality cults, corruption, scandals, intelligence failures and allegations of sexual harassment of female colleagues.

It had been widely expected that P.V. Kumar from the southern state of Kerala was the likely candidate to replace Chaturvedi. Kumar, the No. 2 in the organization, is the senior China expert within RAW and is fluent in Mandarin and had stints in Hong Kong and Beijing. The Cabinet Committee on appointments that was vetting the prospective candidates had sent a written recommendation to the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) endorsing Kumar. It appeared that his appointment as head of RAW was going to be announced before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was to have a heart by-pass operation on Jan. 24, 2009.

However, just prior to Singh being admitted to hospital, Chaturvedi had sent a very critical and deliberately misleading confidential report to the PMO tarnishing Kumar's reputation and permanently sabotaging his chances. The PMO then sent back the file to the vetting panel for a reappraisal.

Controversially, Kumar was not given any recourse to challenge and rebut the unsubstantiated and false allegations that Chaturvedi had made against him. The same scenario repeated itself for another candidate, Rana Banerjee, the No. 3 in the organization, who had a particularly tortuous relationship with Chaturvedi.

With Kumar and Banerjee torpedoed out of the reckoning the, path was clear for Sanjiv Tripathi, the No. 4 in the organization, to succeed Chaturvedi. Tripathi is currently the head of the Aviation Research Center (ARC), a parallel organization within RAW involved in aerial surveillance as well as imagery and signals intelligence. Tripathi is widely known as a close friend and ally of Chaturvedi and has often been described as his protégé. Chaturvedi would bring Tripathi to every meeting he attended and asked him to look over sensitive dossiers. The Indian intelligence community ironically dubbed Chaturvedi and Tripathi "Dumb and Dumber."

As the head of the ARC, Tripathi allowed his mentor Chaturvedi and his wife Asha unofficial use of helicopters to travel on private visits to temples around India such as in Tarapith, West Bengal. The fact that the head of an intelligence organization was using government transportation for personal trips has raised a number of questions, particularly in the aftermath of the Mumbai terror attacks in November 2008 when the National Security Guards (NSG), India's rapid reaction commando unit, took some nine hours to reach the city because they had no dedicated aircraft for their operations.

Like in the case of Chaturvedi, family was a very important asset for Tripathi. His father-in-law G.S. Bajpai, a former head of RAW, openly and actively campaigned for him by meeting with senior politicians and bureaucrats. Chaturvedi also shamelessly lobbied extensively for his protégé. He even took Tripathi on two separate occasions to meet with Sonia Gandhi, the president of the Congress Party and often viewed as the de-facto power behind Manmohan Singh.

For Chaturvedi it was essential that Tripathi replaced him for a number of reasons. During his two years in charge of RAW, he used his position to antagonize, intimidate and ostracize his colleagues. Prior to taking over as RAW chief, Chaturvedi and Tripathi had compiled a hit list of everyone in the organization they planned to target. They started a personal vendetta by removing the security benefits of three former RAW chiefs who they held a grudge against. Chaturvedi then sacked canteen workers and drivers that had been employed by the former chiefs. Even the gardener who mowed the lawn at the official residence of the RAW chief was dismissed. Anybody associated with his perceived rivals was either forced to resign, demoted or given degrading assignments.

Chaturvedi created an environment that was bitter and highly negative. Morale plummeted and the intelligence gathering mechanisms that had taken years to create were systematically dismantled. As a result, RAW became a totally ineffective organization which helped to explain why there were more intelligence failures and terrorist attacks during Chaturvedi's reign than in the careers of the previous sixteen former heads of RAW combined.

To make matters worse, the ex-spy chief has become embroiled in the scandal involving Nisha Bhatia, a female RAW employee who in August 2008, tried to commit suicide outside the PMO because of repeated sexual harassment she had to endure by her male colleagues, including Chaturvedi. Subsequently, Bhatia filed a complaint of sexual harassment against him. The government subsequently formed a three-member committee to investigate the allegation which is still on-going. However, the legitimacy of the inquiry has come into question as one of the committee members, VN Mathur, is a close friend of Chaturvedi. But as the ex-RAW chief is now a civilian, he will have to fight the allegations of sexual harassment at his own expense as the government will no longer be protecting him.

Chaturvedi has also been implicated in a number of irregularities with serious allegations of RAW's budget allocations being diverted to unproductive areas for the personal benefit of his family and friends. Chaturvedi realized that he had made himself deeply unpopular and had a lot of skeletons he would not want uncovered. He needed Tripathi to be in a position to protect him from any potential retribution. However, Chaturvedi's plan of Tripathi succeeding him completely backfired as his protégé was clearly identified as being his "boy." In addition, Tripathi was already tainted by his conduct and "business activities" when he was based in Mauritius, and therefore his application to become the head of RAW was rejected outright.

The appointments committee instead endorsed the Home Minister, P. Chidambaram's recommendation of KC Verma as head of RAW, who, unlike the other three candidates, was not already in the spy agency. There had been surprise in some quarters that the government would choose an outsider, but as exclusively reported by the Middle East Times last Nov. 27, Verma was always regarded as a possible contender for the top job.

Verma hails from Agra, Uttar Pradesh and has three decades of experience with the domestic spy agency, the Intelligence Bureau. Unlike Chaturvedi, Verma is an educated man having studied at the prestigious Mayo College and St. Stephens College. After his time in the IB, Verma became head of the Narcotics Control Bureau in 2005 before being elevated as Secretary (Security) in the Cabinet Secretariat. After the Mumbai attacks, Chidambaram assigned him the additional responsibility of being his Internal Security Adviser.

At his farewell dinner, Chaturvedi arrived with four bodyguards amid rumors that shoes would be thrown at him in a scene resembling the incident involving George W. Bush's visit to Baghdad when he narrowly averted two shoes aimed in his direction by an Iraqi journalist. :rotfl: Over 2,000 people were invited but only 300 turned up. In a final toast to his departing boss, Banerjee gave a scathing overview of Chaturvedi's tenure, describing morale at an all time low and office backstabbing was the order of the day. He concluded by stating that RAW had been left in a shambles by Chaturvedi. Amusingly, Chaturvedi appeared oblivious to Banerjee's stinging indictment and read a 20-minute pre-prepared speech describing his time at RAW as a "glorious innings." Most people wanted to leave when Chaturvedi took to the podium but he ordered the gates of RAW's building to be shut till after the event was over.

Although it appears that the Chaturvedi reign is over, there is the possibility for a sequel. At Chaturvedi's dinner Tripathi was disconsolate that he would not be succeeding his mentor. However, Chaturvedi was overheard reassuring his protégé that he could yet eventually become RAW chief. He advised Tripathi to transfer back to RAW from the ARC and position himself close to Verma. He also said that when Kumar and Banerjee retire within the first half of 2009, Tripathi will be the No.2 in the organization, and should Verma suffer any health problems, Tripathi would be elevated as the de-facto chief. This macabre assessment of Chaturvedi's is based on the fact that Verma does suffer from cardiac problems and had to have a heart by-pass operation in 2008. In addition, Tripathi is not due to retire until December 2010. His father-in-law, Bajpai, has said that he will try to ensure that the government only gives Verma a 23-month tenure as RAW chief to ensure that Tripathi succeeds him regardless of any health concerns. This may be more possible if the current Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, Mayawati, a close friend of Bajpai's, does well in the upcoming general elections where she may become a key power broker. It therefore remains worrying that the Chaturvedi-Tripathi-Bajpai nexus is still trying to pull the strings within RAW.

Verma will be tasked with the daunting challenge of rebuilding the morale within the agency, enhance its intelligence gathering and to prepare the agency for more complex security challenges following the Mumbai attacks. As the intelligence agency moves to a new era it is very clear that the much despised Chaturvedi will not be missed. He will be trying to pursue his goal of becoming a governor of a state; however, it remains unclear as to which if any state wants a man so badly tainted with allegations of corruption, nepotism and sexual harassment.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 15 Feb 2009 01:28

^^^ As usual, Middle East Times is flush with the latest dirty laundry emanating from RAW. I would be very interested to know how METimes has had unrestricted access to these facts, why on earth would METimes be so so so anti-Chaturvedi, and why would it be so interested in India's external spy agency ?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Sontu » 15 Feb 2009 01:52

As usual, Middle East Times is flush with the latest dirty laundry emanating from RAW. I would be very interested to know how METimes has had unrestricted access to these facts, why on earth would METimes be so so so anti-Chaturvedi, and why would it be so interested in India's external spy agency ?


Normally Chaturvedi,Trivedi and Bajpais are strict hindu followers and religious and hence normally have a tilt towards "BHAJPA" politically and hence CANGRESS would less likely to be happy and continue that chain.
But they at the same time just can't sack this chain of people i.e. ideology followers and take a bigger risk suddenly of opposing the entire organization..as ME Times says..that RAW have been turned into a Chaturvedi organisation .

Now to find out the question you raisd that is How & why on this earth METimes gets these infos and why they are so anti Chaturvedi ? to find out the truth we need answers of following few questions.
1. Who are the promoters/financers of this METimes ?
2. Do thay (or any the major promoters) have any political link in India ?
3. Do any of them belongs or holds major share in major company in India ?
4. Does any of the promoters have any link with any other spy/propaganda agencies ?
5. Does any of the promoters have any link with any radical anti hindu agencies/groups/mafia/GANGS operationg out of Gulf and our neighours ?

if we can bit info/answers on my above questions....I hope that will give the answers for your questions too.. :wink:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 15 Feb 2009 04:18

Look, I think whoever in RAW who is giving this info out, is thinking strategically. I am glad this info is coming out if true. We do need some sort of transparency in the organisation.

Why METimes?
Well, what would happen to an Indian newspaper if they did publish such material? It might be that the person who is giving out the info from RAW is posted abroad (makes sense to me) in this case.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby bharatiya » 15 Feb 2009 05:07

Sontu wrote:
As usual, Middle East Times is flush with the latest dirty laundry emanating from RAW. I would be very interested to know how METimes has had unrestricted access to these facts, why on earth would METimes be so so so anti-Chaturvedi, and why would it be so interested in India's external spy agency ?


Normally Chaturvedi,Trivedi and Bajpais are strict hindu followers and religious and hence normally have a tilt towards "BHAJPA" politically and hence CANGRESS would less likely to be happy and continue that chain.
But they at the same time just can't sack this chain of people i.e. ideology followers and take a bigger risk suddenly of opposing the entire organization..as ME Times says..that RAW have been turned into a Chaturvedi organisation .

Now to find out the question you raisd that is How & why on this earth METimes gets these infos and why they are so anti Chaturvedi ? to find out the truth we need answers of following few questions.
1. Who are the promoters/financers of this METimes ?
2. Do thay (or any the major promoters) have any political link in India ?
3. Do any of them belongs or holds major share in major company in India ?
4. Does any of the promoters have any link with any other spy/propaganda agencies ?
5. Does any of the promoters have any link with any radical anti hindu agencies/groups/mafia/GANGS operationg out of Gulf and our neighours ?

if we can bit info/answers on my above questions....I hope that will give the answers for your questions too.. :wink:


Looked around a little bit, fairly strange ownership:
METimes is web only, run from Washington DC. Address:
1133 19th Street NW Suite 800
Washington, DC 20036
US
source

Owned by News World communications, which in turn is owned by a controversial evangelical group, the Unification Church. Poking around, there are allegations of involvement in Korean political/military affairs as well as in the US conservative political circles

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 15 Feb 2009 11:10

Nikhil T wrote:^^^ As usual, Middle East Times is flush with the latest dirty laundry emanating from RAW. I would be very interested to know how METimes has had unrestricted access to these facts, why on earth would METimes be so so so anti-Chaturvedi, and why would it be so interested in India's external spy agency ?

I would assume a RAW official posted in the ME(and not a great fan of the ex-chief) is a close firend of the ME editor.

However:
At his farewell dinner, Chaturvedi arrived with four bodyguards amid rumors that shoes would be thrown at him in a scene resembling the incident involving George W. Bush's visit to Baghdad when he narrowly averted two shoes aimed in his direction by an Iraqi journalist. Over 2,000 people were invited but only 300 turned up. In a final toast to his departing boss, Banerjee gave a scathing overview of Chaturvedi's tenure, describing morale at an all time low and office backstabbing was the order of the day. He concluded by stating that RAW had been left in a shambles by Chaturvedi. Amusingly, Chaturvedi appeared oblivious to Banerjee's stinging indictment and read a 20-minute pre-prepared speech describing his time at RAW as a "glorious innings." Most people wanted to leave when Chaturvedi took to the podium but he ordered the gates of RAW's building to be shut till after the event was over.

Doesnt this sound too much like a movie?

Nikhil T
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 15 Feb 2009 11:50

shyamd wrote:Why METimes?
Well, what would happen to an Indian newspaper if they did publish such material? It might be that the person who is giving out the info from RAW is posted abroad (makes sense to me) in this case.


Interesting, because none of the Indian media organizations covered these stories. The tone of the articless(which are basically character-assassinations) is what bothers me the most. Its venomous.

babbupandey
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby babbupandey » 15 Feb 2009 12:00

Has anyone seen these videos of discussion with Bharat Verma and a so-called defense analyst Zaid Hamid?
I am sorry if it is a repost
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoyJ3Tqg ... re=related

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Tuan » 15 Feb 2009 20:17

Here is a blog that run by a LTTE insider from Colombo, Sri Lanka in which he talks about the LTTE suicide killer squad known as the “LTTE intelligence wing” and its affiliation with other terrorist groups in the Indian subcontinent region. He also reveals that as early as 1993, LTTE sent an operative to Tamil Nadu to act as a “liaison” between LTTE and Tamil Nadu political parties. find it somewhat interesting…

http://theltteinsider.blogspot.com/

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Brando » 15 Feb 2009 21:40

Annual Threat Assessment of the Intelligence Community
for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
(Unclassified Statement of Record)
Dennis C. Blair
Director of National Intelligence
12 February
Link: http://www.dni.gov/testimonies/20090212_testimony.pdf

PLA Modernization
Preparations for a possible Taiwan conflict continue to drive the modernization goals of
the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) and the Chinese defense-industrial complex. It will likely
remain the primary factor as long as the Taiwan situation is unresolved.
At the same time, we judge that China over the past several years has begun a
substantially new phase in its military development by beginning to articulate roles and missions
for the PLA that go well beyond China’s immediate territorial interests.

• For example, China’s leaders may decide to contribute combat forces to peacekeeping
operations, in addition to expanding the current level of command and logistic support.
• China’s national security interests are broadening. This will likely lead China to attempt to
develop at least a limited naval power projection capability extending beyond the South
China Sea. This already has been reflected in Beijing’s decision in December to participate
in anti-piracy operations off the coast of Somalia.

Missile Capability. China continues to develop and field conventional theater-range
ballistic and cruise missile capabilities that can reach US forces and regional bases throughout
the Western Pacific and Asia, including Guam. China also is developing conventionally armed
short- and medium-range ballistic missiles with terminally guided maneuverable warheads that
could be used to attack US naval forces and airbases. In addition, counter-command, control,
and sensor systems, to include communications satellite jammers, are among Beijing’s highest
military priorities.

Counterspace Systems. China continues to pursue a long-term program to develop a
capability to disrupt and damage critical foreign space systems. Counterspace systems, including
antisatellite (ASAT) weapons, also rank among the country’s highest military priorities.

Nuclear Capability. On the nuclear side, we judge Beijing seeks to modernize China’s
strategic forces in order to address concerns about the survivability of those systems in the face
of foreign, particularly US, advances in strategic reconnaissance, precision strike, and missile
defenses. We assess China’s nuclear capabilities will increase over the next ten years.


The above is from a pdf document regarding the DNI's annual assessment to the Senate Select Committee. There is a brief section about India as well but the assesment of China is the most comprehensive one in the report.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 18 Feb 2009 10:55

Todays Hindu has very balanced article on RAW and its current leadership. However, unable to find it online!!! :-?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 18 Feb 2009 10:58

The difference in attitudes of a"aspiring superpower" which bleats and begs all and sundry to help it achieve its objectives and a nation which takes it upon itself to achieve stratergic objectives has never been starker....

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065115.html

Report: Israel waging covert war against Iranian nuclear program
By Yossi Melman

Israel is assassinating Iranian nuclear scientists as part of a covert war against the Islamic Republic's illicit weapons program, the Daily Telegraph reported yesterday, quoting Western intelligence analysts.

The British daily said the Mossad espionage agency was rumored to be behind the death of Ardeshire Hassanpour, a top nuclear scientist at Iran's Isfahan uranium plant, who died in mysterious circumstances, allegedly from "gas poisoning" in 2007.


Other recent deaths, say analysts, are Israeli "hits" on important figures in the procurement and nuclear enrichment process and were intended to deprive Tehran of key technical skills at the head of the program.

The Telegraph also quoted intelligence sources in the United States as saying Israel is using sabotage, front companies and double agents to disrupt the regime's weapons project as an alternative to direct military strikes.

Israel has been carrying out similar covert activities for about a decade, ever since Iran was first suspected of seeking nuclear weapons. The U.S. journalist James Risen wrote recently that the CIA and the Mossad have planned together several operations to sabotage the Iranian program, including damaging power lines to nuclear sites so as to damage computer systems and equipment.

The Telegraph also quoted Israeli officials as privately acknowledging the new U.S. administration is unlikely to sanction an air attack on Iran's nuclear installations, and that President Barack Obama's offer to extend a hand of peace to Tehran puts any direct military action beyond reach for now.

Israel allegedly aims in its covert campaign to delay or interrupt Iranian research, without a direct confrontation that could lead to a wider war.

"Disruption is designed to slow progress on the program, done in such a way that they don't realize what's happening. You are never going to stop it," a former CIA officer knowledgable about Iran was quoted as saying.

"The goal is delay, delay, delay until you can come up with some other solution or approach," he added. "We certainly don't want the current Iranian government to have those weapons. It's a good policy, short of taking them out militarily, which probably carries unacceptable risks."

Reva Bhalla, a senior analyst with Stratfor, the U.S. private intelligence company with strong government security connections, was quoted by the paper as saying the strategy was to take out key people.

"With cooperation from the United States, Israeli covert operations have focused both on eliminating key human assets involved in the nuclear program and in sabotaging the Iranian nuclear supply chain," she was quoted as saying.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Omar » 18 Feb 2009 11:19

Todays Hindu has very balanced article on RAW and its current leadership. However, unable to find it online!!!


Please scan this article if possible.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby AmitR » 18 Feb 2009 11:23

sum wrote:The difference in attitudes of a"aspiring superpower" which bleats and begs all and sundry to help it achieve its objectives and a nation which takes it upon itself to achieve stratergic objectives has never been starker....


Indians are renowned for their great debater attitude. Our slow rolly-polly reaction and paralysis of analysis has led to the current situation that countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh are openly challenging us. :evil: :evil:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Feb 2009 21:35

Now! Now! we have the whine thread for those type of reflections!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby SivaN » 18 Feb 2009 22:24

Maybe the reason for the MEtimes story planting is similar to the Iraq one; The Iraq stories were planted in European papers first, then "imported" into the US to convince all and sundry. Of course, it was all by Murdoch papers then.

A similar strategy is maybe what's happening here. All the foreign papers publish it and it becomes "inevitable" that certain people are pushed into retirement here.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby jaladipc » 18 Feb 2009 22:55

shyamd wrote:Seems to be missed. Hope for the best now with KC Verma in.
SPECIAL REPORT: New Era, New Hope at India's Intelligence Agency
KC Verma has taken up the reigns as the head of India's external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW). This comes after one of the most protracted and controversial contests to succeed Ashok Chaturvedi, who during his two year tenure as head of RAW, has blighted the agency with personality cults, corruption, scandals, intelligence failures and allegations of sexual harassment of female colleagues.

It had been widely expected that P.V. Kumar from the southern state of Kerala was the likely candidate to replace Chaturvedi. Kumar, the No. 2 in the organization, is the senior China expert within RAW and is fluent in Mandarin and had stints in Hong Kong and Beijing. The Cabinet Committee on appointments that was vetting the prospective candidates had sent a written recommendation to the Prime Minister's Office (PMO) endorsing Kumar. It appeared that his appointment as head of RAW was going to be announced before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was to have a heart by-pass operation on Jan. 24, 2009.

However, just prior to Singh being admitted to hospital, Chaturvedi had sent a very critical and deliberately misleading confidential report to the PMO tarnishing Kumar's reputation and permanently sabotaging his chances. The PMO then sent back the file to the vetting panel for a reappraisal.

Controversially, Kumar was not given any recourse to challenge and rebut the unsubstantiated and false allegations that Chaturvedi had made against him. The same scenario repeated itself for another candidate, Rana Banerjee, the No. 3 in the organization, who had a particularly tortuous relationship with Chaturvedi.

With Kumar and Banerjee torpedoed out of the reckoning the, path was clear for Sanjiv Tripathi, the No. 4 in the organization, to succeed Chaturvedi. Tripathi is currently the head of the Aviation Research Center (ARC), a parallel organization within RAW involved in aerial surveillance as well as imagery and signals intelligence. Tripathi is widely known as a close friend and ally of Chaturvedi and has often been described as his protégé. Chaturvedi would bring Tripathi to every meeting he attended and asked him to look over sensitive dossiers. The Indian intelligence community ironically dubbed Chaturvedi and Tripathi "Dumb and Dumber."

As the head of the ARC, Tripathi allowed his mentor Chaturvedi and his wife Asha unofficial use of helicopters to travel on private visits to temples around India such as in Tarapith, West Bengal. The fact that the head of an intelligence organization was using government transportation for personal trips has raised a number of questions, particularly in the aftermath of the Mumbai terror attacks in November 2008 when the National Security Guards (NSG), India's rapid reaction commando unit, took some nine hours to reach the city because they had no dedicated aircraft for their operations.

Like in the case of Chaturvedi, family was a very important asset for Tripathi. His father-in-law G.S. Bajpai, a former head of RAW, openly and actively campaigned for him by meeting with senior politicians and bureaucrats. Chaturvedi also shamelessly lobbied extensively for his protégé. He even took Tripathi on two separate occasions to meet with Sonia Gandhi, the president of the Congress Party and often viewed as the de-facto power behind Manmohan Singh.

For Chaturvedi it was essential that Tripathi replaced him for a number of reasons. During his two years in charge of RAW, he used his position to antagonize, intimidate and ostracize his colleagues. Prior to taking over as RAW chief, Chaturvedi and Tripathi had compiled a hit list of everyone in the organization they planned to target. They started a personal vendetta by removing the security benefits of three former RAW chiefs who they held a grudge against. Chaturvedi then sacked canteen workers and drivers that had been employed by the former chiefs. Even the gardener who mowed the lawn at the official residence of the RAW chief was dismissed. Anybody associated with his perceived rivals was either forced to resign, demoted or given degrading assignments.

Chaturvedi created an environment that was bitter and highly negative. Morale plummeted and the intelligence gathering mechanisms that had taken years to create were systematically dismantled. As a result, RAW became a totally ineffective organization which helped to explain why there were more intelligence failures and terrorist attacks during Chaturvedi's reign than in the careers of the previous sixteen former heads of RAW combined.

To make matters worse, the ex-spy chief has become embroiled in the scandal involving Nisha Bhatia, a female RAW employee who in August 2008, tried to commit suicide outside the PMO because of repeated sexual harassment she had to endure by her male colleagues, including Chaturvedi. Subsequently, Bhatia filed a complaint of sexual harassment against him. The government subsequently formed a three-member committee to investigate the allegation which is still on-going. However, the legitimacy of the inquiry has come into question as one of the committee members, VN Mathur, is a close friend of Chaturvedi. But as the ex-RAW chief is now a civilian, he will have to fight the allegations of sexual harassment at his own expense as the government will no longer be protecting him.

Chaturvedi has also been implicated in a number of irregularities with serious allegations of RAW's budget allocations being diverted to unproductive areas for the personal benefit of his family and friends. Chaturvedi realized that he had made himself deeply unpopular and had a lot of skeletons he would not want uncovered. He needed Tripathi to be in a position to protect him from any potential retribution. However, Chaturvedi's plan of Tripathi succeeding him completely backfired as his protégé was clearly identified as being his "boy." In addition, Tripathi was already tainted by his conduct and "business activities" when he was based in Mauritius, and therefore his application to become the head of RAW was rejected outright.

The appointments committee instead endorsed the Home Minister, P. Chidambaram's recommendation of KC Verma as head of RAW, who, unlike the other three candidates, was not already in the spy agency. There had been surprise in some quarters that the government would choose an outsider, but as exclusively reported by the Middle East Times last Nov. 27, Verma was always regarded as a possible contender for the top job.

Verma hails from Agra, Uttar Pradesh and has three decades of experience with the domestic spy agency, the Intelligence Bureau. Unlike Chaturvedi, Verma is an educated man having studied at the prestigious Mayo College and St. Stephens College. After his time in the IB, Verma became head of the Narcotics Control Bureau in 2005 before being elevated as Secretary (Security) in the Cabinet Secretariat. After the Mumbai attacks, Chidambaram assigned him the additional responsibility of being his Internal Security Adviser.

At his farewell dinner, Chaturvedi arrived with four bodyguards amid rumors that shoes would be thrown at him in a scene resembling the incident involving George W. Bush's visit to Baghdad when he narrowly averted two shoes aimed in his direction by an Iraqi journalist. :rotfl: Over 2,000 people were invited but only 300 turned up. In a final toast to his departing boss, Banerjee gave a scathing overview of Chaturvedi's tenure, describing morale at an all time low and office backstabbing was the order of the day. He concluded by stating that RAW had been left in a shambles by Chaturvedi. Amusingly, Chaturvedi appeared oblivious to Banerjee's stinging indictment and read a 20-minute pre-prepared speech describing his time at RAW as a "glorious innings." Most people wanted to leave when Chaturvedi took to the podium but he ordered the gates of RAW's building to be shut till after the event was over.

Although it appears that the Chaturvedi reign is over, there is the possibility for a sequel. At Chaturvedi's dinner Tripathi was disconsolate that he would not be succeeding his mentor. However, Chaturvedi was overheard reassuring his protégé that he could yet eventually become RAW chief. He advised Tripathi to transfer back to RAW from the ARC and position himself close to Verma. He also said that when Kumar and Banerjee retire within the first half of 2009, Tripathi will be the No.2 in the organization, and should Verma suffer any health problems, Tripathi would be elevated as the de-facto chief. This macabre assessment of Chaturvedi's is based on the fact that Verma does suffer from cardiac problems and had to have a heart by-pass operation in 2008. In addition, Tripathi is not due to retire until December 2010. His father-in-law, Bajpai, has said that he will try to ensure that the government only gives Verma a 23-month tenure as RAW chief to ensure that Tripathi succeeds him regardless of any health concerns. This may be more possible if the current Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh, Mayawati, a close friend of Bajpai's, does well in the upcoming general elections where she may become a key power broker. It therefore remains worrying that the Chaturvedi-Tripathi-Bajpai nexus is still trying to pull the strings within RAW.

Verma will be tasked with the daunting challenge of rebuilding the morale within the agency, enhance its intelligence gathering and to prepare the agency for more complex security challenges following the Mumbai attacks. As the intelligence agency moves to a new era it is very clear that the much despised Chaturvedi will not be missed. He will be trying to pursue his goal of becoming a governor of a state; however, it remains unclear as to which if any state wants a man so badly tainted with allegations of corruption, nepotism and sexual harassment.


And so the gov is sooo dumbest to let this A-hole to run RAW for 2 years.And even after so many proofs of this highness.....he was pardoned..... :x

Oooooops........sorry.If he was convicted then madaaam sonia might regret.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Avinash R » 19 Feb 2009 10:52

jaladipc wrote:And so the gov is sooo dumbest to let this A-hole to run RAW for 2 years.And even after so many proofs of this highness.....he was pardoned..... :x

Oooooops........sorry.If he was convicted then madaaam sonia might regret.

jaladipc it's a hack article. Not meant to inform but an exercise in character assasination. The best place for it would have been the psy-ops thread not here. check bharatiya post in response to the article.

It contains some silly allegations like "the gates were locked till the event was over". Oh yes these professionals are some brainless people that they can be corraled in a building and they cant get out. Either the person writing the article is plain dumb or has a wild imagination.

And not to forgot "middle east" is the place were RAW is bound to interested in. LeT bases in that region have been previously used to train terrorists. Large amount of fake money comes in to India through this route. Note the large scale real estates deals that these "gulf returned" are into in kerala. bhatkal which once i mentioned as "jehadi swamp" is also a route for this type of money and not to forgot riyaz bhatkal who is connected with SIMI/IM and wanted in the current serial blasts case is a native of bhatkal.

Sooner or later "middle east" will come under the spotlight for being a jehadi swamp just like tribal areas of pakistan has become today and the agency that can best protect india is RAW. So by atttacking this agency and planting these type of articles they are trying to destroy public confidence in india's best early warning system against terrorism.


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