Intelligence & National Security Discussion

shiv
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2009 17:56

kobe wrote:It's strange that BCCI agreed to move IPL to other countries
If India can not provide security to games in the country then it's big shame

Election or not, events should be secure.

Now forget about ever hosting the Olympics!

This is nothing but surrender to the pakistan terrorists.

If CAPITULATION is the first option then no need
to put NSG in various cities.


I am happy that it has been shifted out. That is one problem solved. I wish Pakistan could be shifted out to Europe.

There is no point in overstretching our security forces.

In the long term this will IMO stand Indian sport and India in good stead.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Tilak » 22 Mar 2009 18:55

shiv wrote:
kobe wrote:It's strange that BCCI agreed to move IPL to other countries
If India can not provide security to games in the country then it's big shame

Election or not, events should be secure.

Now forget about ever hosting the Olympics!

This is nothing but surrender to the pakistan terrorists.

If CAPITULATION is the first option then no need
to put NSG in various cities.


I am happy that it has been shifted out. That is one problem solved. I wish Pakistan could be shifted out to Europe.

There is no point in overstretching our security forces.

In the long term this will IMO stand Indian sport and India in good stead.


Sorry Shiv, I disagree. What next all movie theatres be shut until elections ?. I think its more about sending the message to the people that the govt. is not surrendering to the politicains priorities (getting themselves elected)/terrorists. And I am trying my best to be apolitical, if the Govt. fails in its resposiblities, it should have the honesty to come forward and accept and be held accountable. However I would be too naiive to belive this would happen. The best explanation our ex-home minister could give was "there were less attacks during our rule" :roll:. This is where we are. I dont know if you follow cricket, but there is huge takleef among the cicket goradom, that India is becoming too powerful. They are trying to expose and exploit this at an oppurtune time. Its a return to == bull****. Indian political parties/movie actors/businessmen are scoring brownie points and sacrifising Cricket in India and submitting to the external ovelords, by scoring self goals. (> How Lalit Modi episode with Rajasthan CA after Congress won the election to note, Lalu is the chief of Bihar, Sharad Pawar(MR), Arun Jaitley(Delhi).. and now we have cynical Shilpa shetty having apparently discoved her "love for cricket".. :rotfl:). Pathetic.

BTW. I think IPL makes enough money to employ upto Tier-2 security. It should be left to them to handle it.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 22 Mar 2009 20:14

Now the world media is going to have a field day on how Pak security is as bad as India (==). I wouldn't be suprised if this hits tourism in India. I can understand from a security point of view, the elections are going to be a big security nightmare. Why don't IPL just pay for private security for the stadiums?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 22 Mar 2009 20:24

IMHO, even a small incident during IPL will hurt Cong in elections, so they don't want to take any chance.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Surya » 22 Mar 2009 20:28

whhat a shame

cheal ass IPL - why couldn;t they hire private security - in one shot they have made us as bad as the Pukis - aagghhhhhh

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby k prasad » 22 Mar 2009 20:33

From my paanwallah's doodhwallah's info, Chidambaram wanted a hefty package to say ok, and was completely opposed to IPL till they paid him and family off... this move was Modi's way of checkmating Chidu, and what a masterstroke that has been.

The state govts, esp congress states were putting a lot of pressure and spokes to IPL... mainly through the police, so that they'd not be to blamed... so if the Home Min agreed, the DGP would object.

More importantly, Modi is seen as a BJP hand, and Congress guys were dead against IPL for that reason... plus, they were worried about people not voting for them because they were watching IPL... now, its hitting them right back, and worse. Modi is now planning to put matches right on the poll days, esp in congress dominated areas.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby AmitR » 22 Mar 2009 21:02

k prasad wrote:From my paanwallah's doodhwallah's info, Chidambaram wanted a hefty package to say ok, and was completely opposed to IPL till they paid him and family off... this move was Modi's way of checkmating Chidu, and what a masterstroke that has been.

The state govts, esp congress states were putting a lot of pressure and spokes to IPL... mainly through the police, so that they'd not be to blamed... so if the Home Min agreed, the DGP would object.

More importantly, Modi is seen as a BJP hand, and Congress guys were dead against IPL for that reason... plus, they were worried about people not voting for them because they were watching IPL... now, its hitting them right back, and worse. Modi is now planning to put matches right on the poll days, esp in congress dominated areas.


Kangress at it again. Shameful indeed. Oh BTW what happened to the Mumbai attack investigation. Kasab is eating from the taxpayers money.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 22 Mar 2009 21:07

He will keep enjoying it for atleast another 2 years (till his conviction) and then for next 8-10 years (when he appeals against the order to the SC/Prez). By that time, some WKK PM might decide to release him as a goodwill gesture. :-?

Regarding the IPL mess:
http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/863A3451F60DC6336525758100526116?OpenDocument

New Delhi, Mar 22 (PTI) IPL's sudden decision to shift the lucrative T-20 cricket tournament overseas saw the BJP attack the UPA government holding it responsible for sending a "wrong signal abroad" while the Congress said the move was only guided by security issues and there was no politics.

The BJP asked is the country so unsecured that it cannot hold a cricket tournament and whether it was becoming unprotected like Pakistan.

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi too waded into the IPL row saying it was a "national shame" that the second edition of the Indian Premier League(IPL) had to be pushed out of the country.

Modi offered to hold all IPL matches in his state and provide tight security cover. "It is a shame that a powerful nation like India can't secure the IPL," the BJP stalwart said challenging the UPA government on the security issue.

Holding the Congress-led UPA government responsible for the BCCI's decision, senior BJP leader Arun Jaitley said the Centre's "non-cooperation" will send wrong signals to international community before the 2010 Commonwealth Games.

"Has India become so unsecured that a domestic tournament has to go abroad? The whole country is disturbed with the non-cooperation by the government, which will send wrong signals about India's security condition," Jaitley said.

"We used to hear about security threats to sporting events in Pakistan, but now this is happening in India. This will surely give wrong signals," he emphasised.


I agree with NM on this....

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby kobe » 22 Mar 2009 22:22

it is time for Shubhash Chandra (zee tv) to
host the ICL in Gujarat.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shiv » 23 Mar 2009 07:11

Relax folks. All will be well when IPL returns to India next year. No need to get worked up. Note that the nation that was all hoity-toity about IPL 1 last year (UQ) is now agog with eagerness because of the money they can make.

"Private security" is for Yamerikhans and Pakistanis who allow heavy arms in the hands of private players.

IPL is both a TV event and a Private affair. Don't forget the "private" bit - it is a non govenmental organization. If a man wants to flaunt and sell his daughter abroad - GoI can do little and neither can you or I prevent that. We are the guys who drool after cricket and the organizers of that cricket have said "Balls we won't play ball in India". Why blame the government? Why this mai-baap expectation from the government for a private event ion a forum that is constantly criticizing other Indians for their mai--baap expectations from GoI? The BCCI do own the bat and the ball and have enough clout to bribe big people with money while squeezing the money out of droolers like us.

Why all the angst? Let them play for one year abroad. If they try that again next year it will die and some new format will take over.

Besides - what do I want? I want the private investors who help make this happen (like Vijay Mallya and Preity Zinta) to make their money so they can keep doing it - rather than fighting the government that is under hajaar pressures and then giving up. Do you want cricket or a chaddi-fght between BCCI and GoI? I prefer cricket. Why hang your echandee on this in a Pakiesque fashion?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby kobe » 23 Mar 2009 07:47

question is not whether zinta or mallya will make money or not,

question is can india provide security for indian events (public or private),
olympics is not a government event, then why Gov gets involved in security

security from terrorists at home should be a birth right of an indian company

this is nothing but bowing to the pakistani terrorists, there is no excuse for it
indian fans deserve to go to live home turf cricket matches and indian goverment
MUST provide adequate security

this is a national shame, one more kalank on congress in-bred netas with limited gene-pool
who don't mind acting like hizhras for their political ends,

if modi invites the games with bullet-proof security, there is no excuse for not going there
whats in god-dammed english-stan and god-foresaken south-africanistan for indian fans? how about indian samosa-wala who will loose his livelyhood? how about indian groundsmen who will not be working? how about a thousand people who could be employed were the games in india?

i think shiv-ji is being sarcastic, but politicians' shameful behavior is another reminder of jaswant singh escorting the terrorists to kandhar

lets just stop developing all the weapons and stop training the additional NSG guards and let preity zinta get rich by playing in phoren lands

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby KiranM » 23 Mar 2009 09:05

k prasad wrote:From my paanwallah's doodhwallah's info, Chidambaram wanted a hefty package to say ok, and was completely opposed to IPL till they paid him and family off... this move was Modi's way of checkmating Chidu, and what a masterstroke that has been.

Prasad, is it a joke or fact? I thought Chidu was one of those upright politicos.. :shock:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 23 Mar 2009 09:26

KiranM wrote:
k prasad wrote:From my paanwallah's doodhwallah's info, Chidambaram wanted a hefty package to say ok, and was completely opposed to IPL till they paid him and family off... this move was Modi's way of checkmating Chidu, and what a masterstroke that has been.

Prasad, is it a joke or fact? I thought Chidu was one of those upright politicos.. :shock:


Have you heard of Indian Bank of Tamil nadu. Its one of the premier nationalized banks. Do look into what happened to it.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 23 Mar 2009 10:11

KiranM wrote:
k prasad wrote:From my paanwallah's doodhwallah's info, Chidambaram wanted a hefty package to say ok, and was completely opposed to IPL till they paid him and family off... this move was Modi's way of checkmating Chidu, and what a masterstroke that has been.

Prasad, is it a joke or fact? I thought Chidu was one of those upright politicos.. :shock:

Chidu and upright?? :shock:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Santosh » 23 Mar 2009 10:22

He is a sauve and smooth thug... much like the Wall Street guys.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shiv » 23 Mar 2009 20:22

kobe wrote:question is not whether zinta or mallya will make money or not,

question is can india provide security for indian events (public or private),
olympics is not a government event, then why Gov gets involved in security


I cannot argue and say you are wrong. Of course these points are correct, but the elections have to be held and we have only so many men in our security forces and they have to be moved around from place to place. Elections put stress on a lot of agencies, not least the security forces.

Asking these people to provide security for a series of cricket matches is absolutely correct and justified as per your view and that of others. Of course I cannot disagree. But when you overstretch the security forces, you are creating loopholes in which incidents can occur. If I were a senior police or paramilitary officer and I had to keep up the morale of men from say Assam doing duty one week in Tamil Nadu, and flying to Dharmsala to provide security for a cricket match I would obviously follow orders and I would demand that my men do the job. But I would also advise against it and say that when the country is not at war and needs maximum security for elections, over stretching the security forces is not a good idea.

Of course the entire nation is correct in criticising my viewpoint and telling me what a stupid country India is. But the anger here is the anger of cognitive dissonance isn't it? The inability to believe the truth that India really is that bad. India really is a country that is so weak that it cannot conduct elections and cricket matches at the same time. Howling and saying that something is wrong will hardly make that better.

Why should a frank admission of India's weakness cause so much angst? Recall that the exact opposite happened in Pakistan. They claimed top class "Presidential security" and the SL team got shot up. India is saying "We cannot guarantee security"? OK so India is stupid and weak. Rants will not make it any stronger.

Why don't you think of better solutions? Taking IPL out of India is the best news I have heard. I feel happy for our security agencies - who will not be running around protecting cheerledaers when they need to protect voters against political goons.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby AmitR » 23 Mar 2009 20:42

shiv wrote:
kobe wrote:question is not whether zinta or mallya will make money or not,

question is can india provide security for indian events (public or private),
olympics is not a government event, then why Gov gets involved in security


I cannot argue and say you are wrong. Of course these points are correct, but the elections have to be held and we have only so many men in our security forces and they have to be moved around from place to place. Elections put stress on a lot of agencies, not least the security forces.
......


Shiv, I must agree with you. BCCI is a not a government owned entity. If they need such massive security they should be ready to pay for it and they can very well afford it too. If BCCI can ask for government security then so can Mallika Sherawat. IPL is all about making money and if it can be done outside India then what's the harm. Why put our security forces under so much strain and pressure when they already have their hands full. This is not Olympics or Asiad it is just a set of club games, why make it a matter of national pride. If anyone thinks that this is absolutely necessity then they should guard the venue.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Tilak » 23 Mar 2009 21:14

shiv wrote:Of course the entire nation is correct in criticising my viewpoint and telling me what a stupid country India is. But the anger here is the anger of cognitive dissonance isn't it? The inability to believe the truth that India really is that bad. India really is a country that is so weak that it cannot conduct elections and cricket matches at the same time. Howling and saying that something is wrong will hardly make that better.

Why should a frank admission of India's weakness cause so much angst? Recall that the exact opposite happened in Pakistan. They claimed top class "Presidential security" and the SL team got shot up. India is saying "We cannot guarantee security"? OK so India is stupid and weak. Rants will not make it any stronger.

Why don't you think of better solutions? Taking IPL out of India is the best news I have heard. I feel happy for our security agencies - who will not be running around protecting cheerledaers when they need to protect voters against political goons.


India with a Million Strong army and Paramilitary Forces + Police cannot guarantee security of people in atmost 3 stadiums in 3 different states (which have volunteered) or is it much deeper ?. What is the the effect of this decision on Investment/ Sport (Common Wealth Games)at this juncture, when foreign capital is flying out and Babus/CEO's from India were touring foreign capital after Mumbai attacks, to convince them that India is a safe destination.

The Private citizens (who come to watch)/Companies pay taxes too and and so are private events entitled to security from the State. I am saying this mindful of the fact, that India is way off compared to other countries.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shiv » 23 Mar 2009 21:24

Tilak wrote:India with a Million Strong army and Paramilitary Forces + Police cannot guarantee security of people in atmost 3 stadiums in 3 different states (which have volunteered) or is it much deeper ?. What is the the effect of this decision on Investment/ Sport (Common Wealth Games)at this juncture, when foreign capital is flying out and Babus/CEO's from India were touring foreign capital after Mumbai attacks, to convince them that India is a safe destination.


Well it means that India is NOT a safe destination for IPL during elections and that India is not promising anyone "Presidential security" but is telling them - watch out. Why is it wrong to be open and honest in an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty?

BCCI can afford to pay the UK/SA for the security that India cannot provide. Thank god for that - so the matches can go on. And the matches are generating money at least for some people - and you can say India is investing some money abroad at a time when most nations have no money to invest.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Tilak » 23 Mar 2009 21:37

shiv wrote:Well it means that India is NOT a safe destination for IPL during elections and that India is not promising anyone "Presidential security" but is telling them - watch out. Why is it wrong to be open and honest in an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty?

BCCI can afford to pay the UK/SA for the security that India cannot provide. Thank god for that - so the matches can go on. And the matches are generating money at least for some people - and you can say India is investing some money abroad at a time when most nations have no money to invest.


IOW, Security is India is "To the Booth and Back" until the overlords are elected, who BTW. are "struggling" to keep us alive and touting it as an achivement. :((

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Mar 2009 21:37

well, imho, IPL folks could very well get firang security forces and deployed for IPL matches and players. if it is the security the concern. GoI can be kept away.. do they have the freedom do this? I think they should keep the matches home, and get firangi security rather national one.

we have exposed our int and sec setup by just merely accepting this fact that we can't provide security during elections. its shame imho, if i am allowed to say that.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 23 Mar 2009 22:03

@Amit,Shiv

Yes BCCI is not gov owned entity. But here also we are talking about security to people who will come to see IPL. Attack on SL player at Lahore has spoiled Pakis face, PCB in that matter less. Whole world is taking it as failure of pak. IOA has to come out today and assure CWG to conduct SAFE games in Delhi. is CWG gov entity or in that matter is olympic gov's entity !? if yes than similarly IPL is also. remember IOA has applied for 2016 or 2020 olympic , sifting of IPL is going to effect it. State gov provides security to regular cricket series meaning to players as well to people. BCCI is paying tax out of its income from IPL. And IPL is/was ready to sift dates and they did too. I dont want to go how state gov should deploy security forces but except UP and J&K all state will go for POLL max 3 days with more than a week difference between them .

@Amit
Why put our security forces under so much strain and pressure when they already have their hands full.


Because they are security forces, strain and pressure is part and parcel of their life, its their job. you are talking like giving responsibility to a developer of 2 projects with fix dead line and putting he/she in strain and pressure !!!!

If anyone thinks that this is absolutely necessity then they should guard the venue.


In previous year's IPL security was provided by particular team owner to its players.This year central insist them to give security considering Lahore and 26/11 and thats how it has started.

If BCCI can ask for government security then so can Mallika Sherawat.


well if Malika is going to perform in front of mass than its respective gov's duty to provide security to that function too.


I am saying is , it has passed wrong signal to world that India is unable to provide security to 2 mega events running simultaneous.

Ankit

Note:-We should discuss this in Nukkad thread.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby nishug » 23 Mar 2009 22:33

I hope ICC doesn't take world cup out of INDIA.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 23 Mar 2009 23:23

ramana wrote:Have you heard of Indian Bank of Tamil nadu. Its one of the premier nationalized banks. Do look into what happened to it.

Couldn't find a thing on google. Can you suggest reading?

Is it Indian Bank Tamil Nadu that was nationalised when the bank got into financial trouble under PC's watch?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby suryag » 24 Mar 2009 00:57


ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 24 Mar 2009 01:45

suryag wrote:http://www.expressindia.com/news/fe/daily/19970703/18455043.html

Indian Bank muddle not a scam: FM


What party did P.Chidambaram belong to when he was the Finance Minister in 1997?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 24 Mar 2009 03:18

ramana wrote:
suryag wrote:http://www.expressindia.com/news/fe/daily/19970703/18455043.html

Indian Bank muddle not a scam: FM


What party did P.Chidambaram belong to when he was the Finance Minister in 1997?


In 1996 Chidambaram quit the Congress party and joined a breakaway faction of the Tamilnadu state unit of the Congress party called the Tamil Maanila Congress (TMC). In general elections held in 1996,

Source , though I dont believe Wikipedia.

Ankit

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Tilak » 24 Mar 2009 07:39

Ankit Desai wrote:Source , though I dont believe Wikipedia.


Yep, he was with Moopanar "The Spittin Cobra" (Beetelnut be in his mouth) :) of TMC, for a short period of time

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 24 Mar 2009 14:58

One of the old classics of Indian intel:
A secret hunt that trapped top Jaish militants

By Praveen Swami

NEW DELHI, JUNE 16. If it had not been for a chance traffic accident, an alert Border Security Force signals intelligence monitor, and a superbly-crafted intelligence operation, Srinagar could have been the midst of a bloody suicide-bombing offensive this summer.

Three months ago, the Indian Army announced that it had eliminated the overall head of the feared Jaish-e-Mohammad's military operations, Qari Mohammad Asif. Operating under the code-name `Sehrai Baba', Asif had been responsible for a string of terrorist attacks since he took office in September 2003. Now, an investigation by The Hindu has found Asif was killed more than three months before his elimination was made public — leading to a top-secret covert operation that secured the liquidation of almost the entire top leadership of the Jaish-e-Mohammad.

On April 8, the Indian Army announced that it had killed Asif, along with four other senior Jaish-e-Mohammad commanders, in northern Kashmir. Those killed included Malik Salimullah, a resident of Gujaranwala in the Pakistani province of Punjab, Nazaqat Zaman, a resident of Haripur in the North West Frontier Province, Yahya Khan of Karachi, and Zubair Ahmad. In one single blow, the terrorist group had lost almost its entire field command: an event unprecedented in the history of counter-terrorist warfare in Jammu and Kashmir.

In fact, The Hindu 's investigation has found, Asif died a full five months before this encounter in a chance shoot-out in Srinagar's Bemina area. The shootout followed a minor traffic altercation involving Asif, after which he opened fire on BSF personnel who intervened. BSF intelligence personnel learnt that the killed terrorist was referred to within his organisation by the wireless code-sign `Tango-4'. The organisation's sources were also able to determine that `Tango-4' was a senior figure in the Jaish-e-Mohammad hierarchy.

BSF signals personnel then made a chance discovery: `Sehrai Baba' had disappeared off the airwaves after the death of `Tango-4'. This led to the suspicion that `Tango-4' and `Sehrai Baba' were the same person. No one in the Jaish-e-Mohammad's Srinagar apparatus, investigators discovered, had seen or heard from their supreme commander in weeks: all they knew was that he was on a secret mission and would establish contact only when absolutely necessary.

Since the Jaish-e-Mohammad did not know that `Sehrai Baba' had been killed, Indian officials believed the situation could be leveraged to their advantage. By mid-January, a detailed plan was in place, known only to the BSF's in-house intelligence organisation, the G-Branch, the Intelligence Bureau, top police officials, and the commander of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps, Lieutenant-General Nirbhay Sharma. An Indian intelligence asset planted deep within the Jaish-e-Mohammad was now put to work executing the covert operation.

In late January, the source made contact with the Jaish-e-Mohammad's Pakistan-based chief, Maulana Masood Azhar — the terrorist released in the Indian Airlines flight IC184 hostages-for-prisoners swap at Kandahar. The source claimed to be passing on messages from `Sehrai Baba' to Azhar. `Sehrai Baba,' he said, had planned a series of large-scale operations inside Srinagar, but needed logistical support and personnel. Since Indian intelligence had in the past demonstrated the ability to break terrorist communications codes, the Jaish-e-Mohammad would have to take the risk of arranging a physical meeting on the Indian side of the LoC.

It worked. When the Jaish-e-Mohammad group reached their liaison point near Sogam, having used multiple routes across the Lolab mountains, Indian troops were waiting. "The whole thing had to be arranged with care," says a senior military source. "We had to make sure that, first, the source could be moved around by the Intelligence Bureau without hindrance by our own troops, while at once maintaining secrecy. We had to make sure the LoC crossing was trouble-free, but also monitor it at each stage. Finally, the ambush had to be laid with great precision. The slightest error could have jeopardised months of hard work."

Soon after the Sogam incident, Indian forces moved rapidly to eliminate the last two Jaish-e-Mohammad personnel drawn on to the Indian side of the LoC by the source, Multan resident Tassaduq Irshad, and Mohammad Iqbal Baksh. While the Jaish-e-Mohammad continues to have a formidable ground presence in Jammu and Kashmir, it is an Army without Generals.

always feel happy when i read this particular "incident".

Kudos to all the brave Indians working tirelessly for their country in the cloaks and dagger arena...

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Mar 2009 17:26

Hats off to the Russians.This is what we should also use against perfidious Pak.Here's an excerpt of a Paki attack against us.

(One other interesting allegation in Grey Goose 2 is that a member of the Whackerz Pakistan hacking group, which claimed responsibility for defacing the Indian Eastern Railway Web site on Dec. 24, 2008, is actually employed by a North American wireless communications company. This person presents an "insider threat" for his employer, the report states.)

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/a ... tacks.html

Report Links Russian Intelligence to Cyber Attacks
Robert McMillan, IDG News Service

A follow-up report authored by a group of cyber-security experts claims that Russian intelligence agencies were probably involved in the 2008 cyber attacks on Georgia.

The report, released Friday, concludes that there is a "strong likelihood" that the Foreign Military Intelligence agency (the GRU) and Federal Security Service (the FSB) directed cyber attacks on Georgian government servers in July and August of 2008, attacks which coincided with a Russian military invasion of Georgia. Called Grey Goose 2, the report is a follow-up to the group's October 2008 report about the Georgian cyber war. It includes sections on the recent conflict in Gaza and politically motivated attacks against the Eastern India Railway Web site.

Grey Goose was written by a volunteer group of security experts who have used their technical skills to investigate the cyber incidents. A more detailed version of the report is being made available to government agencies and security researchers.

Following a complex web of connections, the report claims that an Internet service provider connected with the Stopgeorgia.ru web site, which coordinated the Georgian attacks, is located next door to a Russian Ministry of Defense Research Institute called the Center for Research of Military Strength of Foreign Countries, and a few doors down from GRU headquarters.

The case for Russia's involvement in state-sponsored cyber attacks was given a boost recently, when State Duma Deputy Sergei Markov reportedly claimed that one of his assistants had instigated cyber attacks against Estonia in 2007, when the two countries were engaged in a political dispute.

The report's principal author, Jeff Carr, said that this disclosure, along with the work in the report, helped convince him that the Kremlin was probably involved in cyber-warfare. "There's just too much planning that went into it," said Carr, founder of information security consulting firm GreyLogic.

Still, it's a "bit of a stretch" to conclude that the Georgia attacks were state-sponsored, according to Paul Ferguson, a researcher with Trend Micro who has reviewed the Grey Goose work. "You can connect dots to infer things, but inferring things does not make them so," he said.

One other interesting allegation in Grey Goose 2 is that a member of the Whackerz Pakistan hacking group, which claimed responsibility for defacing the Indian Eastern Railway Web site on Dec. 24, 2008, is actually employed by a North American wireless communications company. This person presents an "insider threat" for his employer, the report states.

In fact, two of the six Whackerz members work in the IT industry, Carr said. He declined to publicly identify the company, but he said that law enforcement has been notified.

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Philip
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 24 Mar 2009 18:39

Is the secret FBI "Spider group" active in India too? They've been secretly opertaing for 5 years in Afghanistan and Pak causing “a huge threat for our national security,” Hamid Mir, an Islamabad-based defense and security analyst, told IOL.

Using the infamous Blakckwater firm,now operating in Pak accoding to latest revelations,the group may be operating in secret just before our elections for their own vested interests,to swing the Indian election which is poised on a knife edge at the moment with no favourite in sight.If is to be expected that the group is secretly involved in India too,it will allegedly work against parties suspicious of the US's recent agreements with India regarding defence and security,where the US is trying to integrate India's armed forces into its global defence network of allies and control India's foreign and economic policy.

http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.c ... -pakistan/

Notorious US security firm Blackwater arrives in Pakistan

"A FBI-sponsored “Spider Group” comprising retired Pakistani intelligence and military officers, mostly Christians, has already been operating in different parts of the country for the last five years."

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sunilUpa » 26 Mar 2009 03:50

IPL was prime target of terror attack: US think tank

The Indian Premier League (IPL), which has now been shifted to South Africa, was the prime target of a large scale terrorist strike by Islamic militants, on the lines of 26/11, targeting a host of foreign cricket players, a leading American think-tank said on Wednesday.

Games being played in Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka were more on the terrorist hit list, it said.
Errr..please read on..

"The Indian intelligence apparatus is thought to have warned the central government of a flood of specific threats against both Indian and foreign cricket players," said Stratfor.

Based on the intelligence information it has from various sources, Stratfor in its latest analysis said it received indications early on from Indian security sources that the IPL tournament was a prime target for another large-scale Islamist militant operation following the November 2008 Mumbai attacks.

"Warnings of specific threats against the players came from the governments of the states hosting matches, including Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. 'ahhh..it was Karnataka and Andhra govt. which warned, some how Statfor reporting that makes it legitimate?
"Given that these two states respectively are home to the information technology hubs of Hyderabad and Bangalore both of which have a heavy foreign presence and are where multinational corporations doing business in India are concentrated, these states are at a particularly high risk of attack," it said.

The decision to sacrifice the IPL tournament for the sake of security was made after security agencies carried out a detailed threat scenario for the IPL tournament and national elections.

The IPL was shifted to South Africa on Tuesday.

.

Sigh..

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby tejas » 26 Mar 2009 04:03

So what happens to the Commonwealth Games in 2010 ? If this isn't an abject admission of helplessness before soldiers of a certain religion of peace, than what is?

I say we disband the armed forces and all start praying towards Mecca :evil: This is a national insult. When wil this UPA(Congress) disaster ever end?
Last edited by tejas on 26 Mar 2009 06:39, edited 1 time in total.

shyamd
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 26 Mar 2009 04:57

There's A Spy In My Soup

The new RAW chief takes over at a time when morale is at an all-time low and 'recall' cases are rising by the day

SAIKAT DATTA
Foreign Locales, Phoren Attitudes

* Berlin: RAW officer asked to return due to poor quality of intelligence and differences with his Intelligence Bureau counterpart.
* Colombo: Ambassador wants officer out for breach of protocol and meeting senior Sri Lankan officials/leaders.
* Brussels: Officer recalled after allegations of financial bungling and misappropriation of funds. Inquiry pending.
* Beijing: RAW operative recalled for allegedly "mishandling" her junior and compromising security by using the office computer to surf the Net.

***
In February this year, K.C. Verma, a 1971 batch police officer from the Jharkhand cadre, took over as chief of India's external intelligence agency, Research & Analysis Wing (RAW), and with it inherited the problems that have plagued the organisation for years.

In the last year or so, RAW has seen some of the highest recall rates of its officers from foreign postings, causing much embarrassment. Now a few more Indian ambassadors/high commissioners have written to the government complaining about RAW officers posted at their embassies/high commissions and seeking their recall. Last year saw the return of P. Hanniman, a joint secretary-level officer, from Brussels after allegations of financial bunglings and siphoning of secret funds surfaced.

This year there are pending requests from the Indian ambassador to Germany, Meera Shankar, requesting that a RAW officer, K. Jha, be recalled. Similarly, the Indian high commissioner in Sri Lanka, Alok Prasad, has complained about P. Rao, a woman officer posted in Colombo. Prasad feels that Rao's meetings with senior Sri Lankan dignitaries were an embarrassment. A similar request has been received from the Indian ambassador to Afghanistan.

Last year saw the sudden return of two RAW officers from Sri Lanka and China. Ravi Nair came back home from Colombo under a cloud, while Uma Mishra, a director-level officer posted in Beijing, was recalled after allegations of an affair between her subordinate and a Chinese interpreter surfaced. Mishra was accused of mishandling the entire affair as well as compromising security with a senior visiting IB officer accusing her of using his computer to surf the Net.

For Verma, these are issues he'll have to resolve quickly. His appointment comes after a three-year hiatus for him: he spent it outside the Indian intelligence community for health reasons. In between, he had bypass surgery and had taken over as Narcotics Control Bureau chief where he worked with P. Chidambaram, then the finance minister.

The P. Hanniman case will now be top priority. Hanniman is currently posted in Delhi and the inquiry against him for siphoning off secret funds in Brussels has been completed. Strangely enough, Hanniman seems to have survived till now because the inquiry report was kept pending by Gurinder Singh, a special secretary with RAW who has been sent abroad now as special security advisor to the government of Mauritius. Singh sat on the inquiry file for almost a year before sending it back without taking any decision, days before he left for Mauritius. RAW officers allege that Singh did it to protect a fellow IPS officer.

Meanwhile, the Indian high commissioner to Lanka has demanded that the lady officer posted in Colombo be recalled immediately. According to several officers familiar with the case, the high commissioner took umbrage on protocol issues saying the lady officer was overstepping her brief by independently meeting senior Sri Lankan officials.

In Germany, differences between an IB and RAW officer have led to the latter facing the prospect of being sent home in the next few weeks.A similar fate awaits the RAW officer in Kabul with the Indian ambassador there reportedly unhappy with his performance. Incidentally, this isn't the first time that India's RAW station in Germany has come under a cloud. Another IPS cadre officer was accused of forging the letterhead of the Pakistani ambassador to Germany a few years ago and passing fake letters/memos as intelligence gathered. When detected, he was immediately repatriated to his parent cadre state, Uttarakhand. He is currently facing a cbi inquiry in a corruption case.

What irks officers within RAW is the way these "requests" for withdrawal are treated by the government. Last year, when Ravi Nair was pulled out of Colombo, there were allegations of him being associated with a "Chinese spy". However, a subsequent inquiry revealed that the charges were blatantly false. Instead, it came to light that Sri Lankan foreign minister Rohitha Bogollagama had orchestrated the whole episode.

Apparently, Nair was Bogollagama's tenant in Colombo and had refused to pay for expensive furniture that the minister had ordered for the house. This dispute became a full-blown crisis when Bogollagama's daughter's continuance in AIIMS, Delhi, was threatened due to her dismal academic performance. (RAW had organised her admission but couldn't ensure the medical degree.) As differences came out into the open, Nair was immediately recalled, only to be proved innocent of the charges later. A similar dispute between the RAW officer in Germany and his IB counterpart led to the present impasse. The Indian ambassador, unimpressed with the quality of reports the officer was generating, raised the issue with the MEA, leading to the officer's imminent recall.

For Verma, these are tricky issues since a similar episode last year led to the resignation of RAW's China expert, Jaidev Ranade. A career intelligence officer, he was literally hounded out by the earlier secretary, Ashok Chaturvedi, on grounds that Ranade had not sought permission for his wife's employment with the World Bank. Embarrassed by Ranade's resignation, the pmo stepped in and issued orders to promote him to the post of additional secretary even though his resignation had been accepted.

RAW has always been bogged down by experienced officers leaving, citing harassment and nepotism. Sandip Joshi, who had done extensive work to break up the Khalistan movement, quit two years ago, while Vijay Tewatia, a joint secretary, was forced to take voluntary retirement after his wife, a doctor, took up an assignment with the UN.

Simultaneously, RAW has failed to attract new talent. It has recruited only six officers in the last eight years and continues to depend on officers on deputation who leave soon after completing a lucrative foreign posting. This has led to a severe drought of expertise and has left the ras cadre, raised specially to man the agency in the 1970s, demoralised and languishing in ignominy.



(Some names have been changed to keep identities secret)

Ankit Desai
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Ankit Desai » 26 Mar 2009 06:10

Shyamd,

nice post. I don't know good or bad RAW but nice to read RAW working in EUROPE specially in brussels (new for me atleast).

Ankit

sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 26 Mar 2009 09:23

Ankit Desai wrote:Shyamd,

nice post. I don't know good or bad RAW but nice to read RAW working in EUROPE specially in brussels (new for me atleast).

Ankit

Sir, Europe is the most preferred destination for all our spooks and you will find a huge fight for Europe posting even if critical missions like Pak, A'tan etc are understaffed due to lack of takers...

ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 26 Mar 2009 09:49

Looks like RAW folks get treated rawly by the MEA types. Again need to get deemed status for them to get out of the pecking order.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby k prasad » 26 Mar 2009 09:58

ramana wrote:Looks like RAW folks get treated rawly by the MEA types. Again need to get deemed status for them to get out of the pecking order.


Its important to retain a chain of command, especially on foreign postings... and honestly, MEA guys are far more professional than RAW ppl, many of whom get posted in places like these thanks to their connections, rather than any great knowledge... and when they do get there, its more of a paid holiday.

Unfortunately, that situation will not improve till the RAS is given primacy, and RAW is taken out of the arbitrariness... the only way to do this is to increase accountability - a limited parliamentary oversight perhaps.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 26 Mar 2009 09:59

True, but the para below doesnt inspire much confidence of a turnaround:
Simultaneously, RAW has failed to attract new talent. It has recruited only six officers in the last eight years and continues to depend on officers on deputation who leave soon after completing a lucrative foreign posting. This has led to a severe drought of expertise and has left the ras cadre, raised specially to man the agency in the 1970s, demoralised and languishing in ignominy.


Also,
A similar dispute between the RAW officer in Germany and his IB counterpart led to the present impasse. The Indian ambassador, unimpressed with the quality of reports the officer was generating, raised the issue with the MEA, leading to the officer's imminent recall.

IB afsar posted in Germany and being a counterpart to the RAW man posted there?? :-?

Do IB guys get overseas posting(esp to very far off areas, not nearby SAARC places) even with RAW around?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Avinash R » 26 Mar 2009 13:47

shyamd wrote:What irks officers within RAW is the way these "requests" for withdrawal are treated by the government. Last year, when Ravi Nair was pulled out of Colombo, there were allegations of him being associated with a "Chinese spy". However, a subsequent inquiry revealed that the charges were blatantly false. Instead, it came to light that Sri Lankan foreign minister Rohitha Bogollagama had orchestrated the whole episode.

Apparently, Nair was Bogollagama's tenant in Colombo and had refused to pay for expensive furniture that the minister had ordered for the house. This dispute became a full-blown crisis when Bogollagama's daughter's continuance in AIIMS, Delhi, was threatened due to her dismal academic performance.

I bet this minister is not too bright. He sends his daughter to get degree in an institute which is known to have rather high standards of evaluation. If he was so desperate for a degree why did he forget to call up laloo and request him.

Laloo would have delivered the degree certificate to the minister's house without his daughter having to visit the college even once. Afterall he has got his daughter a gold medal, he would not have disappointed a lankan minister.

And well maybe he would have asked for some fodder in return but that is not big a price to pay for a lankan minister.


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