Intelligence & National Security Discussion

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 12 Oct 2009 15:58

ISI wouldnt want the Indian authorities poking around his house...

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Oct 2009 16:30

IF it is a retaliation for Kabul, then ISI know they can't retaliate on the RAW, because India does not post operatives in the embassies/consulates in Pak any more. But they could do the same to any MEAwalla

PC becomes the flaming arrowhead Minister adds a sharp edge to Maoist fight

New Delhi, Oct. 11: As the security offensive against Naxalites gears up, it is increasingly apparent that the effort is being fuelled by the personal, and contentious, edge and urgency Union home minister P. Chidambaram has imparted it.

Depending on what side of the discordant debate the voices belong to, Chidambaram is being credited with — or blamed for — lending the offensive a flaming arrowhead.

“High time someone cut through the mumbo-jumbo and saw the Maoist threat for what it is,” says Ajai Sahni of the Institute of Crisis Management. “At least this home minister is beginning to speak the right language.”

Such lauding is anathema to the likes of human rights activist Gautam Navlakha. “Chidambaram has ended the hypocrisy of it all and put the blunt face of the state on display,” says Navlakha, “but he should have the guts to call this a war because deploying specially trained counter-insurgency forces is not kabaddi. He should also know he is fashioning a disastrous policy, he can start this war but he will have no control over ending it, he does not realise what he is getting the country into.”

Chidambaram’s elaborate bureaucracy is almost as unanimous about the booster-propeller role their relatively new boss has come to play on the Naxalite front.

As one top officer put it: “The Prime Minister flagged Naxalism as the main internal security threat several years ago, but it is only after Chidamabaram came to North Block that the ministry really began to respond to that warning from the top. We were in a prolonged state of reactive ambivalence, Chidambaram has radicalised it into a fairly provocative pro-activism. He has determined to take the battle to them, it’s his dare, not the Naxalites’ and that’s new.”

The most important thing Chidambaram has done, the officer said, was to send out an “unambiguous no-tolerance message to armed Naxalites”.

“It is critical to display determination at the top, and Chidambaram has done that,” the officer added. “This has achieved two things — it has told the Naxalites what they are up against, and it has told the bureaucracy and the forces that their boss means and expects business.”

The one thing that has clearly changed over the past few weeks is the level of orchestration among forces. “Call it propaganda, call it psychological warfare, but Chidambaram is making it seem like a gathering storm for the Naxalites, as if all the forces at the command of the government are in a new concert against them,” the official said.

“There has been a spate of anti-Naxalite advertising, the air force has been speaking of a role, various police and paramilitary wings have become more voluble, there is a visible build-up to something, almost a physically visible warning.”

A top Intelligence Bureau (IB) official indicated that Chidambaram has been tuning up the work ethic behind-the-scenes, too. “He has surely made accountability essential,” he said. “There is, for instance, a daily meeting now at the Multiple Agency Centre (MAC), where intelligence inputs from various agencies, including the paramilitary and police, are exchanged, analysed and sent up. With Chidambaram there is little scope for excuses.” (AoA! Finally!)

To a retired official with old familiarity with the home ministry, Chidambaram’s current posture has brought back memories of his first stint as junior minister for internal security under Rajiv Gandhi, particularly his role in Operation Black Thunder of 1988.

Sikh militants had regrouped in Amritsar’s Golden Temple after Bluestar’s bloody flush-out and were threatening to resume Khalistani insurgency from the holy fortress.

Worried about a repeat of the disastrous communal fallout of Bluestar, there were many in the Congress establishment who were against another security crackdown.

“But Chidambaram seemed to have no confusion the militants had to be evicted by force,” the official remembers. “He’s the man who marshalled Black Thunder, overriding political fears of a repeat of Bluestar and its consequences. Although Buta Singh was the home minister, it was Chidambaram who took Black Thunder from conception to the very end, clinically, almost coldly. He is a man who wants to achieve what he sets out to do.”

But equally strong, though not as vocal, are the notes of caution emerging from some of Chidambaram’s officials. They concern a whole range of issues from the tactical to the logistical.

“Launching a propaganda offensive against the Naxalites is new, but it could also backfire,” warns one senior officer. “The Naxalites are no spring chickens, they are hardened and committed, all this noise will not deter them. On the contrary, it puts a huge onus on the government and the forces now to succeed in this effort. Are we prepared?”

Independent security experts and officers alike have been pointing out grave deficiencies in the engagement-readiness of the forces. They lack for numbers, they are ill-equipped and poorly trained, they have little familiarity with their operating terrain and, probably most of all, they may suffer a huge commitment disadvantage to their Maoist adversaries.

As one CRPF officer who has done a stint in Chhattisgarh said: “The Maoists are in this fight for life, we are there just for our terms, and many of us are just waiting to get out, it’s not a battle that inspires the jawans or their officers. And Chidamabaram’s determination does not necessarily outweigh that.”

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Oct 2009 17:14

IF it is a retaliation for Kabul, then ISI know they can't retaliate on the RAW, because India does not post operatives in the embassies/consulates in Pak any more.

No RAW folks are posted in the Pak embassy???

All RAW folks in Pak are without diplomatic cover? Surely, there will be a few "official" RAW folks in the embassy?

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 12 Oct 2009 17:47

Something doesnt seem right. If the Pakistani establishment arranged for the Indian embassy to be bombed, via the Pak-Taliban, why was the Pak Army attacked by the Pak-Taliban too?

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 12 Oct 2009 17:52

ASPuar wrote:Something doesnt seem right. If the Pakistani establishment arranged for the Indian embassy to be bombed, via the Pak-Taliban, why was the Pak Army attacked by the Pak-Taliban too?

IVHMO, this is the typical jousting for influence between different interest groups across Taliban, ISI, Pak Army, political Pakjabi spectrum. India being the target to all for their own agenda.

More like an alliance of case by case basis.

rajeshks · Post by **rajeshks** » 12 Oct 2009 19:52

KiranM wrote:
ASPuar wrote:Something doesnt seem right. If the Pakistani establishment arranged for the Indian embassy to be bombed, via the Pak-Taliban, why was the Pak Army attacked by the Pak-Taliban too?
IVHMO, this is the typical jousting for influence between different interest groups across Taliban, ISI, Pak Army, political Pakjabi spectrum. India being the target to all for their own agenda.

More like an alliance of case by case basis.

Once upon a time taliban was willing to sleep with America, then why cant india try to buy their service? I know its very very tough but taliban needs money and arms, cant raw try to exploit that?

am talking about taliban only to AL-Q.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Oct 2009 20:27

This is an indication of the things to come. US will leave Afghan soil soon and leave Pakis defacto power there. Soon Taliban will be accomidated in power structure and Anti Indian terrorist camps will once again open. Pak will get its statigic deapth one again and US will sleep until next 9/11. Obama will be remembered as great peace maker and some more tens of thousands of Indians will die in terrorist attacks

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 12 Oct 2009 20:55

Narayana Rao wrote:This is an indication of the things to come. US will leave Afghan soil soon and leave Pakis defacto power there. Soon Taliban will be accomidated in power structure and Anti Indian terrorist camps will once again open. Pak will get its statigic deapth one again and US will sleep until next 9/11. Obama will be remembered as great peace maker and some more tens of thousands of Indians will die in terrorist attacks

Nostradamus Rao, you are a great seer!
I salute your power of deduction and future gazing. Jai Ho!

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Oct 2009 22:20

sum wrote: No RAW folks are posted in the Pak embassy???

All RAW folks in Pak are without diplomatic cover? Surely, there will be a few "official" RAW folks in the embassy?

No RAW operatives are posted in the embassy, especially under diplomatic cover. This is because of the past problems where ISIwallah's are looking for the operatives, the other people in the embassy just give them away and say x is the spy. The MEA officers dont want to be hassled or harrassed, so they just tell the ISI who the spy is. So...there is no point. There maybe one "official" RAW guy, but even that is very much doubted, because he will be hounded and followed. Can't do anything. Although things might have changed due to the MMS joint investigation teams etc. Its easier to just communicate over the phone. I think the ISI and RAW have hotlines and a back channel communication, if any messages need to be conveyed.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Oct 2009 08:53

No RAW operatives are posted in the embassy, especially under diplomatic cover. This is because of the past problems where ISIwallah's are looking for the operatives, the other people in the embassy just give them away and say x is the spy. The MEA officers dont want to be hassled or harrassed, so they just tell the ISI who the spy is.

Then it is a great moral victory for the Pakis..

Imagine Russians or Americans having no spooks in their embassies just because their foes tailed them all the time...

Really weird that we are so scared to even place official spies in pakiland while half of the Paki embassy here is ISI/MI...If we cannot even place diplomatic spies, i really wonder if anyone dares to work undercover in Pakiland?

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 13 Oct 2009 11:17

SDRE doesnt talk about RAW agents in the embassy for a reason. In paki land they dont
register as being RAW agent, or have special diplomatic number plate for agents.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 13 Oct 2009 13:50

Sum, the MEA guys just give them away.

There are better ways to do activities in certain countries.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 13 Oct 2009 14:02

Sum ji, Pak and India behind the scenes are more or less in perpetual hostility. We cannot really brush with the Cold War analogy. Our case is that of neither here nor there.

Former USSR or USA did not intimidate, harass and torture opposite diplomatic personnel for information. So using diplomatic cover is out of question.

Regards,
Kiran

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Oct 2009 15:35

KiranM wrote:Sum ji, Pak and India behind the scenes are more or less in perpetual hostility. We cannot really brush with the Cold War analogy. Our case is that of neither here nor there.

Former USSR or USA did not intimidate, harass and torture opposite diplomatic personnel for information. So using diplomatic cover is out of question.

Regards,
Kiran

Very true, Kiran sir...We seem to be in league of our own.

However, how recent is this policy of no Kaccha in Pak embassy? I clearly remember three diplomats being expelled by Pak in 02-03 times( in a usual tit for tat expulsion which was common those days), one of whose name turned up a few days later in the list of dead when a lift in RAW HQ collapsed killing 3 RAW personnel..

Edit, found the article:

Senior RAW official dies in lift crash
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, March 20
A former Indian diplomatic staffer to Pakistan and senior officer of the country’s external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), Vipin Handa was killed in a freak accident at the agency’s headquarters in the CGO Complex in South Delhi here this afternoon when his lift suddenly collapsed.

The accident occurred at 1210 hours when he was reportedly going to attend a meeting along with three other officers. Initial reports suggested that while the other officers stepped out of the lift, Handa got trapped inside the elevator which suddenly hurtled to the ground floor.

The reports said that soon afterwards, the sound of a crash was heard and officials rushed to the ground floor where Handa, an Indian Revenue Service (IRS) officer, was found lying in a battered condition. He was extricated by forcing the doors of the lift open and rushed to a hospital where he was declared dead on arrival.

Handa was among the four Indian staffers in Pakistan who were expelled by Islamabad in a tit-for-tit action on January 23 this year.

The ill-fated CGO building has been sealed and an in-house inquiry has begun into the collapse of the lift.

The accident has raised questions about the maintenance of lifts in government buildings. While there was no official version, sources claimed that the lifts were inspected regularly. The staff responsible for the maintenance of lifts in the CGO building are being questioned.

The death of Handa, a very popular officer, has sent shock waves through the external intelligence agency.

The police said that a case of causing death by negligence had been registered and efforts were being made to ascertain the facts. Further investigations are on. A report of the incident has also been submitted to the Cabinet secretariat which is the administrative ministry of the agency.

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 13 Oct 2009 16:01

Sum ji, no Sir please. I am still in my mid twenties.

My understanding from what you posted above is that agents under diplomatic cover would have been during more peaceful times; to serve as unofficial back door diplomats. And now situation has deteriorated much beyond that. So no value behind them.

Also, Mr. Handa's parent organization is IRS. Just my assumption, he was assigned more for his 'human lie detector' like qualities to catch unfriendlies who would come as domestic helps, visa applicants, etc.??

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 13 Oct 2009 17:10

Sum, it was stopped post 2004/5ish I think.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 14 Oct 2009 04:04

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/

Some very interesting reading on the ties between MI5 and early IB...

What I found most interesting is the cosy relationship which India established with British intelligence after independence.

"India set an important pattern after the second war for MI5's relation with newly independent states," Professor Andrew told me. "It is very little known that Nehru agreed that an MI5 officer should remain in India after independence. His relations with MI5 were frequently closer than with the Nehru government."

The relationship was forged very early in the day - according to declassified documents quoted in the book. MI5 got a security liaison officer to be based in Delhi after the end of British rule. The secret agreement was agreed with the Nehru-led government in March 1947, a good five months before independence.

Soon enough, there appeared to be a convergence of interests between the newly-independent nation and its former rulers when it came to intelligence assessments. MI5 Deputy Director General Guy Liddell and TG Sanjevi, the first head of India's intelligence agency, which was curiously called Delhi Intelligence Bureau (DIB), were "united in their deep distrust of the first Indian high commissioner in London, VK Krishna Menon, the Congress party's leading left-leaning firebrand," writes Professor Andrew.

Menon, an old friend of Nehru's, was a flawed man of protean talents: he studied at the London School of Economics (LSE), was the first editor at Pelican Books, Penguin's famous non-fiction imprint, and somebody with whom Nehru could discuss, according to a diplomat who knew both the men well, "Marx and Mill, Dickens and Dostoevsky." He is also remembered for a record-busting eight-hour-long speech on Kashmir at the United Nations, and as a federal defence minister who presided over the Indian rout in the hands of China during the 1962 war.

"We are doing what we could to get rid of Krishna Menon," Liddle wrote in his diary, about a man who, in Professor Andrew's words, had a "passionate loathing for the British Raj which independence did little to abate". How it wanted to "get rid" of the Communist-loving high commissioner is not clear. "The attempt failed," writes Prof Andrew.

The love affair between the DIB and the security service continued unabated: the two shared intelligence on "Communist subversion" freely, and the Indians, according to Professor Andrew, even asked for an experienced counter-espionage officer to visit the DIB headquarters and for help in training transcribers.

Most of the service's special liaison people appointed to Delhi were "gregarious people, fond of India and good at getting on with both the DIB and their high commission colleagues," writes Professor Andrew. Even a chill in Indo-British diplomatic relations after the Anglo-French invasion of Suez which Nehru roundly condemned "had little impact on collaboration between the DIB and MI5."

But one special liaison officer, John Allen, was prescient when he feared that "with so many unfavourable winds blowing between India and Britain, if Nehru realised how close collaboration between the DIB and MI5 was, he would probably forbid much of it."

But that was not to be.

"Nehru, however, either never discovered how close the relationship was or - less probably - did discover and took no action," writes Professor Andrew.

As the 1960s arrived, the relationship evidently grew feebler. There was mounting frustration inside MI5 over how it was losing out to the Soviets as India became a key ally of the Soviet Union. "In the view of the security service," writes Professor Andrew, "the DIB was increasingly unequal to coping with the Soviet intelligence presence in India, greater than in any other country in the developing world."

In February 1964, a senior MI5 officer reported that the Russians were "having almost a free run for their money both in the espionage and subversive fields" in New Delhi.

Two decades later, the service was taking note of the "increasing danger" of Sikh extremism in the UK. It had, Professor Andrew writes, become a major threat during the summer and autumn of 1984. The invasion of the Golden Temple in Amritsar by Indian troops to put down a separatist rebellion and the anti-Sikh riots in 1984 triggered off by the killing of premier Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards had produced an upsurge of support within the Sikh community for the creation of an independent Sikh state of Khalistan in India.

Prof Andrew reveals "plots" to kill prime minister Rajiv Gandhi during a state visit to Britain in October 1985 were unearthed by MI5. "Good intelligence, combined with the arrest of Sikh and Kashmiri extremists, was believed to have frustrated plots to attack Rajiv Gandhi during the state visit," Professor Andrew writes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Oct 2009 04:18

A few entries from wiki:

1) First head of MI5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_Kell

2)Role of MI5(g)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI5(g)

3) Hindu- German conspiracy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu-German_Conspiracy

4) Indian Political Intelligence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Pol ... nce_Office

Umrao Das · Post by **Umrao Das** » 14 Oct 2009 04:21

The games that are being played in Southern Africa region by MI5 CIA Russians French and the Dutch (still) is amazing as they keep watch on PRC and India.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Oct 2009 06:45

KiranM wrote: Also, Mr. Handa's parent organization is IRS. Just my assumption, he was assigned more for his 'human lie detector' like qualities to catch unfriendlies who would come as domestic helps, visa applicants, etc.??

not necessarily. AFAIK RAS cadres are taken in from other cadres like IPS/IAS/IRS etc. such differences are not maintained after they become RAS.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 16 Oct 2009 20:07

ISRAEL Issues Travel Advisory - INDIA UNDER THREAT

Israel's Channel 10 reported that the new warning was based on new intelligence received by Israeli officials indicating that a Global Jihad group had teamed up with the Pakistani terror cell responsible for the 2008 Mumbai massacre and was planning an attack.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 16 Oct 2009 21:15

Rahul M wrote:
KiranM wrote: Also, Mr. Handa's parent organization is IRS. Just my assumption, he was assigned more for his 'human lie detector' like qualities to catch unfriendlies who would come as domestic helps, visa applicants, etc.??
not necessarily. AFAIK RAS cadres are taken in from other cadres like IPS/IAS/IRS etc. such differences are not maintained after they become RAS.

Once a military/civil service officer joins R&AW, they become a part of a seperate civil service, called the research and analysis service (RAS). They no longer have any "parent cadre", save for thr RAS. Only a previous cadre.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 16 Oct 2009 21:25

that's what I have read.
there is however somekind of a probationary period after which the person has to decide whether to continue in R&AW or revert back to the parent cadre. sometimes to move back to the parent cadre is taken for him/her by the higher-ups.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 20 Oct 2009 13:08

guys just saw this on NDTV- US SPY HELD FOR ATTEMPTED ESPIONAGE ,HE WAS A PART OF THE CHANDRAYAAN TEAM

added later
HE WAS A FORMER DEFENCE DEPARTMENT SCIENTIST

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 20 Oct 2009 15:32

Hard work pays off for security forces

Drug mafia finds new route to escape intelligence eyes

Wrong place, wrong time

Today, as the Americans call the shots, they allow little role to even their closest ally, the British, on policy matters in Afghanistan. And when they go, and if Afghanistan slips back into Pakistani hands, India will have no role at all. This is a point that India's foreign office clearly prefers to ignore under the guidance of Indian's intelligence agencies, like RAW, which feels that diplomacy, at least with Pakistan, is best attended to by a system of tit for tat.No wonder Pakistan continues to blame India for having too many missions in Afghanistan with many of them providingspace to India's intelligence agencies to operate across the Af-Pak border and meddle in the affairs of Pakistan's tribal andBaloch areas. This India denies, but it has no takers in Islamabad.

Arrested NASA scientist worked on Chandrayaan-1

New Delhi, Oct 20 (IANS) A senior NASA scientist who has been arrested in the US for alleged espionage was one of the main investigators of an American scientific instrument that flew aboard India’s lunar craft Chandrayaan-1.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation Monday filed a criminal complaint against Steward David Nozette, 52, for “attempted espionage”.

According to Nozette’s bio on US space agency NASA’s Mini-RF (Miniature Radio Frequency) project page, he was described as the instrument’s principal investigator on the American Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and Co-investigator on Mini-SAR on Chandrayaan-1.

Nozette’s photograph on the bio page is of him posing with the Taj Mahal in the background.

The Mini-RF project flew two radar instruments - the first one on ISRO’s Chandrayaan called Mini-Sar (synthetic aperture radar), which mapped lunar poles, and the second one on NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.

The American space agency had put another instrument on the Indian lunar probe, Moon Mineralogy Mapper, which effectively proved the presence of water molecules on the moon’s surface.

Nozette had been interviewed by Indian private channel NDTV in September 2008, before Chandrayaan-1 had successfully blasted off to orbit the moon.

In that interview, he said the offer to fly American instruments on the Indian probe was a “very good deal” for both space agencies. “Really opens up collaboration between NASA and ISRO which hasn’t happened on this scale before. So it helps us in a lot of ways,” said Nozette.

While he enjoyed working with Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) colleagues, Nozette admitted there were challenges in working long distance and of culture.

He has now been arrested for allegedly spying for Israeli intelligence.

A criminal complaint unsealed in the District of Columbia charged Nozette with attempted espionage for knowingly and wilfully attempting to communicate, deliver and transmit classified information relating to the national defence of the US to an individual he believed to be an Israeli intelligence officer.

Read more: http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/sci ... z0UTBFcOGW

Be wary of the Israeli's.

DMK’s Raja in a fresh Telecom controversy

Tue, 2009-10-20 13:30 — editor

By M Rama Rao, India Editor, Asian Tribune
New Delhi, 20 October (Asiantribune.com):

Telecom Minister A Raja of DMK
The Indian Government’s go ahead to Norway’s giant Telenor to acquire majority stake in a local telecom firm with operations in Tamil Nadu has come under a cloud, it appears.

The Telecom ministry is headed by A Raja of DMK, a close confidant of TN Chief Minister Muthavel Karunanidhi.

Telenor operates also in Pakistan and Bangladesh. And for the past 18 months Telenor plan has been hanging fire with objections raised on security considerations. But on Monday, the Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs (CCEA) cleared the Telenor proposal to acquire 74 per cent stake in Unitech group of companies which were awarded 2 G spectrum in a public auction last year. Unitech Wireless operates in Tamil Nadu.

‘Chidambaram, Karuna strike Telenor deal’ screamed a headline in a Delhi daily, The Pioneer.

It alleged ‘Under DMK pressure, (Central) Govt gave go-ahead to telco operating in Pak, Bangladesh’. In the face of strong objections from the Home Ministry, Intelligence Bureau and RAW, the Foreign Investment Promotion Board had many times deferred the matter so far but the Home Ministry diluted its objections by placing a `flimsy' clause, the daily reported citing highly placed sources. ‘As per the new clause, Telenor's Pakistan operating company staff and former staff will not be permitted to work in India’.

Norway's Telenor has obtained CCEA clearance through its Singapore-based company, focusing on Asia operations.

According to the Pioneer Telenor clearance came a day after Home Minister P Chidambaram had a long meeting with Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi in Chennai on Sunday.

The daily quoted DMK leaders, whom it did not identify, as saying that Karunanidhi had taken up the issue with Congress President in December last year itself when he visited Delhi at the head of a multi-party delegation to present the ‘plight’ of Sri Lankan Tamils.

Unitech, a real estate company, entered the telecom business last year when it bagged 2G spectrum allocation for Rs 1651 crore; it offloaded its 60 per cent shares to Telenor for Rs 6120 crore within weeks in mid 2008. Unitech had applied for licenses in several names - Unitech Infrastructure, Unitech Builders and Estates, Aska Projects, Nahan Properties, Hudson Properties, Volga Properties, Adonis Projects and Azare Properties among them, a report said.

These companies were later merged into eight separate entities. One of them is Unitech Wireless (Tamil Nadu).

-Asian Tribune -

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Oct 2009 15:59

From the Maroof Raza article:

So, a way forward for India will be to address Pakistan's complex strategy to counter India's dominating presence in the region. Afghanistan can be a key to that. Pakistan could have been a regional power if it lay anywhere else on the world map, but seen against India and China, its two immediate neighbours, it looks small. So, by allowing it a prominent role in Afghanistan and then ontothe gas rich region of central Asia would be a diplomatic master stroke. But, India's decision to pull out of Afghanistan must be used as a major diplomatic bargaining tool to extract a worthwhile concession from Pakistan, such as cooperation in confronting terrorism.

Moreover, if India has another billion dollars to spare, then it must not pour that in aid and into development projects in Afghanistan, but use it to leverage India better with at least two of India's neighbours -- Bangladesh and Nepal for instance. This would earn much more goodwill in India's immediate neighbourhood. Sadly, Afghanistan on the other hand has little to offer India.

Is this the same Maroof Raza who is usually so articulate and sounds strategic?

Real shocker of a article!!!!

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 20 Oct 2009 16:02

US scientist who worked with Chandrayaan a spy?
NDTV
Reacting to the arrest, Bhaskara Narayana, Scientific Secretary to ISRO, said: "Nozette did visit ISRO facilities at least twice, but he was not allowed into the sensitive and restricted areas. ISRO's security has not been compromised. This arrest is an internal matter of NASA."

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 20 Oct 2009 16:53

Hi Gurus, I accidentally came across "operation blue tulsi".I don’t remember that this has ever come up for discussion at BR forum. Is it real?

Anthony Hines · Post by **Anthony Hines** » 20 Oct 2009 18:26

Read the last line

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 20 Oct 2009 19:25

shyamd wrote: Arrested NASA scientist worked on Chandrayaan-1
Be wary of the Israeli's.

In this case though, it was an FBI sting operation which caught him. They were posing as Israeli intelligence officers.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Oct 2009 17:53

Sriman wrote:
shyamd wrote: Arrested NASA scientist worked on Chandrayaan-1
Be wary of the Israeli's.
In this case though, it was an FBI sting operation which caught him. They were posing as Israeli intelligence officers.

what shyamd says makes sense. you can have good relations with any country but not to the extent of divulging secrets entrusted to you. if nothing else, it can become a sink-hole for false flag operations.

_______________
another angle in the NASA spy case.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... php?ref=mp
.....................

Could The Israeli Spy Case Really Be An Indian Spy Case?

Even the Justice Department's press release on the arrest played up the Mossad ploy, while noting that Israel is not accused of breaking any laws.

But a curious section in the criminal complaint suggests that there was a foreign country -- identified only as "Country A" -- to which Nozette may have passed information.

And there's circumstantial evidence suggesting one "Country A" candidate is India.
..........

IMO, country A could be china too. wasn't there some astronomy conference there in the recent past ?

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Oct 2009 18:15

IMO, country A could be china too. wasn't there some astronomy conference there in the recent past ?

I for one will be very happy if our agencies are doing what the Amrikis keep doing to our scientists and spooks...

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 21 Oct 2009 18:19

Rahul M, they have a bad track record. No matter how close we are, we shouldn't get to a point where our decision making/intelligence is clouded.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Oct 2009 18:30

I am aware of their track record.(one of the largest US counter-intel ops during cold war days was directed against israel, second only to the USSR)
they are doing what they can for survival, any rational country would do it.

but that's irrelevant, we shouldn't get to the "too close for comfort" zone with anybody.
we all know what happened with russia.

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 21 Oct 2009 19:05

madhu wrote:Hi Gurus, I accidentally came across "operation blue tulsi".I don’t remember that this has ever come up for discussion at BR forum. Is it real?

Nice read.
The author has speculated at many points regarding Op. blue tulsi. however for desperate paki media, seeking an appropriate reason for chaos... this may be the best desired answer by their heads running the show.
Beside: The reference to the same topic can only be found on pakistani forums.

Operation Blue Tulsi: 15 Years in Planning, 10 Years in Preparation and Today in Execution

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 21 Oct 2009 19:29

^^^ What can you expect from the land of conspiracy theorists. Whatever stories they were saying over an decade was consolidated in a single story albeit with a name. It is projected as if Mush as a good guy and all the current civilian leaders as bad guy. There it goes in exposing its flaws. Several times in the UPA-I gov MKN praised Mush as India's friend. When Mush faced the Lawyer's ire, there was news item which said MMS ordered all the intel agents not to "use" the situation. So much for the Op blue tulsi!

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 21 Oct 2009 20:02

shyamd wrote:Rahul M, they have a bad track record. No matter how close we are, we shouldn't get to a point where our decision making/intelligence is clouded.

Just to be clear, i absolutely agree that we have to be wary. I was just referring to this particular instance.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 27 Oct 2009 16:06

Retracing Mumbai's 26/11

As the anniversary of Mumbai's 26/11 terror attack draws near, we go back to just a month before the attack last year to retrace the terror route

Even as the state government has sanctioned Rs 127 crore for Mumbai's security, the memory of 26/11 is still alive. In fact, it is almost a year since the overseas-based Research & Analysis Wing (RAW) operatives sent sensitive information about a group of marine commandos being trained at Chelanamdi Pahadi near Muzzafarabad in Pakistan.

The details were not specific then, but there were indications that a team of crack commandos were being trained to launch a seaborne attack on Mumbai. As a precautionary measure, the police stepped up vigil in the city.

33 SIM cards
Intelligence officers gathered information about 33 Indian SIM cards from New Delhi and West Bengal smuggled through Kashmir, but they were unable to put the jigsaw puzzle in place. The cards were used by Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorists during the Mumbai strikes a month later.

Swimming, sailing
The 10 trained commandos, including 21-year-old Mohammed Ajmal Amir Qasab, were stationed at Karachi after an attack on Mumbai on September 27, 2008 was deferred. Meanwhile, they practised steering speedboats at sea. Mastermind Zaki-ur-Rehman and Kafa took the LeT terrorists to a camp at Muridke where they practised using AK 47s, handguns and throwing grenades. At the camp, they were made to swim and get acquainted with the sea, Qasab later told Indian investigators after his arrest on 26/11.

What their day was like
Their morning started with namaz, followed with physical training imparted by Abu Mawiya.

The group was at the firing range for the next three hours. They were also taught to use communication equipment and satellite phones.

Studying Mumbai
After dinner, the killer squad was regularly shown the site Google Earth where they studied information about Azad Maidan, the landing spot at Budwar Park in Cuffe Parade and the route leading to Taj Mahal Hotel in Colaba. They also learnt more about Nariman House.

Qasab and Abu Ismail were given the code name VTS team, after they were shown CST railway station (formerly VT). There were details of commuters moving around during rush hour.

Presently, Police Commissioner D Sivanandhan says things have moved ahead. The state is sanctioning Rs 197 crore to modernise the police force. And this is addition to the Rs 36 spent on buying arms so far.

The terrorists were also provided with minute details of potential targets by Sabauddin Ahmad alias Saba alias Farhan and his key associate Fahim Ansari alias Abu Zarar alias Sahil Pavaskar, a resident from Goregaon (west).

In Mumbai, warnings over an imminent attack was getting louder. Dozens of intelligence reports were circulated amongst bureaucrats and state police weeks before the city was taken by surprise.

'We are prepared': Sivanandhan
According to Commissioner of Police D Sivanandhan things have move ahead. The government is sanctioning Rs 197 crore on modernisation of the police and this is addition to the Rs 36 spent on buying arms so far.

Sivanandhan added that more than anything the morale is high. We now have a force which is willing to go and fight. More than 1,000 commaondos have been trained and armed with the best
weapons. The 'Force One' commando team is ready and a National Security Guard hub is already in Mumbai.

"Certainly, we are prepared to face any challenge," remarked Sivanandhan.

Cleanse ruthlessly

“There’s need for more accountability in RAW.”

India’s so-called premier external intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), is at war with itself and nobody in government seems to be doing anything to stop this rogue elephant. The manner in which some senior RAW officers proceeded on protest leave earlier this week, because the government had decided to appoint an Intelligence Bureau special director as the next chief of the secret service, is illustrative of the rot that has set in in an organisation that has long been beset with in-house turf wars. The war among a section of officers must be made to stop.

Over the years, RAW’s character has changed with the induction of a cross-section of officers who brought with them their own professional cultures, or the lack of it. Besides, it has had its share of scandals involving moles and defectors, charges of sexual harassment, indiscipline and sheer incompetence. In the midst of this bleak picture, the secret service has remained exposed to partisan misuse by the political leadership, which bred inefficiency and corruption. As RAW drifted rudderless, successive governments chose not to address the issue of accountability which, countries like the United States and the United Kingdom, have resolved by putting in place effective systems of parliamentary oversight. For reasons stated above, there is reluctance within the organisation to subject itself to legislative oversight. The issue of who should be appointed RAW chief is the government's prerogative. An IPS officer, the IB special director in question once belonged to RAW but was forced out in a coup by officers who comprise the Research and Analysis Service (RAS). The IPS-RAS endemic factionalism within RAW is legend and has not done any good to national security.

Both RAW and IB must recruit business graduates and economists in increasing numbers in order to build up operations and analysis capabilities. Provision must be made in the respective agency’s rules to induct eminent business executives, if and when required. If the government means business, reforms in the security establishment must be ruthless and begin now. The government’s other more substantive and immediate task should be to stem the drift and sclerosis in the agency and put an end to personal and organisational risk aversion, chop dead wood, promote talent and foresight, stop the misuse of secret service funds and the business of plum postings. Otherwise, the raison d’etre of RAW’s existence will come into question.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Oct 2009 17:38

33 SIM cards
Intelligence officers gathered information about 33 Indian SIM cards from New Delhi and West Bengal smuggled through Kashmir, but they were unable to put the jigsaw puzzle in place. The cards were used by Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorists during the Mumbai strikes a month later.

Huh...i thought that the SIM cards were a IB led operation to infiltrate LeT??

Wasn't a undercover JKP constable also arrested by mistake in Kolkota over this matter ( and later let go by red faced WB police)?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 28 Oct 2009 19:47

Yes, Sum. The article is probably incorrect.
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Intel machinery is gearing up for China threat. NTRO is leading interceptions in stations in Arunachal. RAW is having a bit of trouble sorting out the China dept. More later and when appropriate.