Intelligence & National Security Discussion

[shyams]

Have you guys seen this - from August 2009

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19293977/Dest ... f-Pakistan
Ex-ISI chief says purpose of new Afghan agency RAMA is to destabilize Pakistan

I would not expect anything better from Hamid Gul. He is among the school of people in pak who believes that RAW is funding taliban to attack Pak. So, I am not surprised that he thinks RAMA is there destabilize Pak, which I find really funny since RAMA cannot even stabilize Afghanistan, ....forget about allocating resources for destabilizing another country.

I really liked the name RAMA.

RAW & RAMA. There is something about it that sounds good.

[sunny y]

Tennis Australia cites stolen CWG security plan for pull-out
http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20100220/37 ... wg-se.html

In a startling revelation, Tennis Australia (TA) Saturday claimed that security plans for October's Commonwealth Games in New Delhi were stolen and that prompted it to forfeit the Davis Cup tie with India in Chennai last May.

A confidential TA report, drawing on information from 'other security organisations with strong ties to the Chennai region', does not specify who stole the Commonwealth Games blueprints but a source said: 'It forced the organisers to rejig the whole security plans for the Games

[Brando]

The name RAMA itself is great psy-ops!

I'm not really so sure!
RAMA may look like it is appealing to Indians today because of its name but tomorrow RAW should make sure that RAMA's actions don't make it a Dhimmi to ISI. THAT would be a psyche-out!

If India walks away from Afghanistan or is even mildly complacent the Taliban will be bulldozing the Indian embassy in Kabul with a Chinese bulldozer paid for by the Pakistanis!

[Rishi]

RAMA = Research and Analysis Milli Afghanistan. Strangely no Google News reference to this acronym. Maybe it is still KHAD.

[Carl_T]

Is this a joint venture between Ind and Afg?

[shyams]

Is this a joint venture between Ind and Afg?

I seriously doubt, for the reason that most of the US top administration does not like India exerting any influence in Af due to Pak being sensitive about it. While there are a lot of independent US analysts who write India should take active participation in Af, usually the policy makers in US and the military, want India to reduce even the rebuilding efforts; to sooth pak. So, looking at it from that angle I would doubt if RAMA is a joint venture.

[shyams]

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/20 ... 00315.HTML

It appears like the South Koreans have caught one of David Headley types. If true, then great police work on their part.

[shyams]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100219/ap_ ... s_pakistan

Another major blow to the Taliban. This time a senior member of the Haqqani network. Looks like Pakistan is serious about helping US eliminate some of the key taliban figures, since this is the second major blow after the arrest of the Baradar. It is certainly surprising that pak is cooperating. While I would like to believe that pak is sincere, I certainly smell something sinister in their sudden change of tactics. After all, leopards don't change spots!

[Carl_T]

It is the right decision for Pakistan as it will restore stability.

Although I wonder if it hints at a change in dynamic in the power circles in Pakistan.

I am completely speculating!

[sourab_c]

It is certainly surprising that pak is cooperating. While I would like to believe that pak is sincere, I certainly smell something sinister in their sudden change of tactics. After all, leopards don't change spots!

Nothing is surprising. They are only capturing the faction of Taliban that is not loyal to them anymore. They will destroy them and restore them so they can retain their full control over them once again.

[shyams]

Nothing is surprising. They are only capturing the faction of Taliban that is not loyal to them anymore. They will destroy them and restore them so they can retain their full control over them once again.

I agree that pak is trying to gain control over them back. At the same time, I don't think they would destroy them totally either. It appears like Pak is trying to get rid of the people who are closer to AQ and faction of taliban(TB) that is against Pak govt and thus carve out the "good" from the "bad". In this way, they are hitting 2 birds with one stone

1) Getting rid of those elements that are inimical to Pak interest since they have clearly lost control over these elements, thus making others fall in line.

2) This "cleansing" also helps pak to prove that there is "Good" Vs "Bad" TB, with of course the ones being killed/arrested being the "bad" ones. The remaining "Good" TB would then find their way to post 2011 govt in Af (Uncle appears to have bought the good vs bad theory), and of course once the good TB finds themselves in Af govt, they would then crap on our interests. (so much for our immense soft power)

I have to grudgingly admit that from the deep sh** that the pakis were in (geopolitically) a while ago, they appear to be doing a pretty darn good job of navigating this mess while taking advantage it. Its too early to predict this of course. But uncle sam is clearly happy at the turn of events. If this capture/termination of high value targets continues, expect rewards (more F-16s?) to be showered upon pak for their "cooperation" in "war against terror" by uncle.

[abhishek_sharma]

Vir Sanghvi supports covert operation

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1

[shyams]

Vir Sanghvi supports covert operation

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 002&mode=1

Thanks for this link abhishek! I am glad to know that there is finally someone who can write a pro cover action article in the main stream media (who is not an ex-intel officer.)

I am sure you read the part where he asks MNS the question about Covert action. MNS's reply being "...Indians simply do not do such things." Man...he clearly needs some fresh air.

[Rishi]

RAMA = Research and Analysis Milli Afghanistan. Strangely no Google News reference to this acronym. Maybe it is still KHAD.

The Afghan intel service is the Amaniyat. Who the hell coined RAMA, Hamid Gul?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_D ... anistan%29

[Rahul M]

his rants seem to be the only source. sure looks like it.

[VinodTK]

Maldives says its youths are waging jihad in Pak, seeks India's help

[sum]

I am sure you read the part where he asks MMS the question about Covert action. MNS's reply being "...Indians simply do not do such things."

And all wet dreams of this jingo are dashed with that one simple statement!!

[Kanson]

^^ Have you listen to G. Pillai, Home Secretary's recent statement ? He hinted at the retaliatory action....Dont have the link to quote here.

[shyamd]

Road too close for air base's comfort

Imagine driving down the crowded Delhi-Gurgaon Expressway on NH-8. Thousands of motorists ply it every hour. Imagine calmly glancing out at the Palam air force station to your right. Then, imagine watching one of its aircraft exploding in a thunderous fireball, mangled metal scattering in all directions.

That is a nightmare image that has two former commanders of the air force's Delhi-headquartered Western Air Command very worried. The Palam air force station, which operates under the Western Air Command, is home to medium and heavy transport aircraft, VVIP jets for the country's leaders and top secret intelligence- gathering aircraft of the Research & Analysis Wing (RAW).

The two commanders articulated their fears after HEADLINES TODAY demonstrated the disturbing view that greets anyone who cares to cast a gaze towards the air force station off the new flyover that eases traffic between Delhi and Haryana.

An ocean of infrastructure work leads right up to the very walls of the station, but it's what is visible beyond that is truly shocking: multiple aircraft in full view of anyone who cares to look - an Ilyushin- 76 heavy transporter in air force colours, a RAW Antonov-32 used for signal intelligence, even a Boeing business jet used frequently by the president and the prime minister.

All within a few hundred metres of the flyover, and within striking distance. No walls or barriers shield the aircraft from prying eyes or a potential attack.

"The aircraft are fuelled up with tons of fuel and can be easily targeted with weapons. Think about the collateral damage in such an attack. Infrastructure is welcome, but the government needs to understand priorities pertaining to national security. Such aircraft simply cannot be left out in the open like this," said Air Marshal A. K. Singh, who retired as commander of the Western Air Command in January 2007.

His predecessor, Air Marshal V. K. Bhatia, had the same view.

"A simple weapon like a closerange rocket launcher can be used to target these aircraft. The security threat naturally increases when the aircraft are visible like this. There is a need to safeguard these aircraft urgently both from sight and from possible attacks," he said.

An officer formerly with RAW's low-profile Aviation Research Cell (ARC) indicated that some of these aircraft "do not even exist on paper", and therefore the ability to spot them so easily was a critical information breach to the country's adversaries.

The officer also pointed out that the identities of personnel working with India's intelligence stood to be revealed by the lack of adequate protection, and this in itself was an "unacceptable security breach".

Sources at the Western Air Command headquarters told HEADLINES TODAY that the sprawling road infrastructure work had encroached up to less than 300 metres of the military air station, even when a gazetted notification existed that no such construction or work could occur within a margin of 900 metres - a security violation as well as a threat to a base that continues to house high-value targets of the air force and external intelligence establishments.

[Gerard]

I am sure you read the part where he asks MNS the question about Covert action. MNS's reply being "...Indians simply do not do such things." Man...he clearly needs some fresh air.

Yet that is exactly the answer that a PM who orders covert action should give

[ramana]

People like Vir Singhvi are parrots or thotas. So there is some debate about using covert action and he is the mouthpiece of one segment. Don't attribute Chankianism to him and original thought.

[ramana]

From Twitter feed posted by hari in TSP thread, B Ramanji wants to reinstate covert action. So thats the inspiration for VS!
Most likely a seminar in IDSA and all are parrotting covert action.

Covert action to do what?

[RayC]

Covert action as I have been advocating earlier of disintegrating Pakistan by assisting the Baluchis, Balwaristani, the Shias, the Mohajir Party that is based in Karachi and so on.

Even maybe assist the Pakistani Taliban against the Pak Army. But this can be double edged.

Pakistan is a bundle of contradictions and power struggle. Easy to exploit if one has the will to do so.

Every Pakistani thinks he is a Kalifa!

[sourab_c]

Covert action as I have been advocating earlier of disintegrating Pakistan by assisting the Baluchis, Balwaristani, the Shias, the Mohajir Party that is based in Karachi and so on.

Creating unrest in Pakistan would not solve India's problems. We need a MOSSAD style covert operation. Blow up a few ISI officials, terrorists, separatists etc. Target few but key players.

[Carl_T]

Covert action should be long term and short term. I think short term should be keeping tabs on their nuclear facilities and finishing off LeT/JeM etc.

I wonder, since we've been tracking them for so many years, we can come up with a creative way to kill key leaders.


Long term could be separating Balochistan by covertly starting/financing militant groups.


Perhaps in the future the idea of Pakistan can mean Punjab and Sindh only.

[abhishek_sharma]

Perhaps in the future the idea of Pakistan can mean Punjab and Sindh only.

Why punish Sindh?

[Carl_T]

Well their largest city is in Sindh and is pro-Pakistan. Maybe the rural parts of Sindh can be broken away.

[NehraA]

Every Pakistani thinks he is a Kalifa!

[RayC]

Covert action as I have been advocating earlier of disintegrating Pakistan by assisting the Baluchis, Balwaristani, the Shias, the Mohajir Party that is based in Karachi and so on.

Creating unrest in Pakistan would not solve India's problems. We need a MOSSAD style covert operation. Blow up a few ISI officials, terrorists, separatists etc. Target few but key players.

To be successful, one must not leave trails or suspicions.

If Pakistanis fight Pakistanis, can we be blamed.

We can still hold the high moral ground as MMS is doing even when we are struggling to meet the price rise! Imagine the good Khalsa not bothering about it and going about his business, claiming he is hell of an economist!

India has to be like him. Cause problems and look cute!

Observe the audacity of this man. He OKs Westland helicopters for his safety and forgets to sanction pressing IAF requirements!! His and his cronies safety over the safety and security of the Nation! Jai Ho!

And then sing All is well!

[manjgu]

RayC.. i once accompnied a friend to Ashoka hotel to meet a very shady fixer, middleman ..this fixer moves in very high echelons of power... he said that contrary to his economist, economist image MMS is very very shrewd chap and makes moves like a good chess player ..thinking many moves ahead, while ordinary mortals are thinking 2-3 moves ahead. He said any person who does not behave/ have attributes like himself ( ie sardar not behaving like a sardar) is a very dangerous species and needs to be handled with care!!

[anirban_aim]

It is certainly surprising that pak is cooperating. While I would like to believe that pak is sincere, I certainly smell something sinister in their sudden change of tactics. After all, leopards don't change spots!

Nothing is surprising. They are only capturing the faction of Taliban that is not loyal to them anymore. They will destroy them and restore them so they can retain their full control over them once again.

Nothing is surprising. They are only capturing the faction of Taliban that is not loyal to them anymore. They will destroy them and restore them so they can retain their full control over them once again.

I agree that pak is trying to gain control over them back. At the same time, I don't think they would destroy them totally either. It appears like Pak is trying to get rid of the people who are closer to AQ and faction of taliban(TB) that is against Pak govt and thus carve out the "good" from the "bad". In this way, they are hitting 2 birds with one stone

1) Getting rid of those elements that are inimical to Pak interest since they have clearly lost control over these elements, thus making others fall in line.

2) This "cleansing" also helps pak to prove that there is "Good" Vs "Bad" TB, with of course the ones being killed/arrested being the "bad" ones. The remaining "Good" TB would then find their way to post 2011 govt in Af (Uncle appears to have bought the good vs bad theory), and of course once the good TB finds themselves in Af govt, they would then crap on our interests. (so much for our immense soft power)

I have to grudgingly admit that from the deep sh** that the pakis were in (geopolitically) a while ago, they appear to be doing a pretty darn good job of navigating this mess while taking advantage it. Its too early to predict this of course. But uncle sam is clearly happy at the turn of events. If this capture/termination of high value targets continues, expect rewards (more F-16s?) to be showered upon pak for their "cooperation" in "war against terror" by uncle.

Well something is surely cooking......

Sudden spurt in seeming sincere cooperation, Claiming that India offered talks and the sudden spurt in the Srinagar Stone Wars. Which by the way are made to look similar to the earlier intifadas.....

So, whats cooking get uncle talk for you and side with you while you cheese of the bad talibs in the guise of anti terror??
Bring back the K factor. Regain the leverage lost. and while you are at it why not fish for some weapons and funds as well??

Well.... Welll

[Ankit Desai]

BARC scientist found murdered in Mumbai

The postmortem report revealed that he was assaulted with a blunt object, which led to internal bleeding in the brain,

Mohite said.

Ankit

[abhishek_sharma]

U.S. Ambassador's Statement on the Visit of FBI Director Robert Mueller

February 23, 2010

http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/pr-02232010.html

NEW DELHI -- Today’s meetings between FBI Director Robert Mueller and Indian government officials are further evidence of the robust and active counterterror cooperation between the U.S. and India.

...

The successful cooperation stretches to exchange best practices in both the United States and in India. The State Department sponsored exchanges in which U.S. rail authorities traveled to New Delhi and Mumbai to observe firsthand the enormous task of securing India’s vast railway system. Subsequently, a team of Indian government and law enforcement officials traveled to New York City and Washington D.C.
...

[abhishek_sharma]

HT report on FBI chief's visit

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 004&mode=1

[Philip]

Spy games through electronic eavesdropping.Echelon has been the US's most widely used system based upon a global network of bases liked to satellites and other systems.Not a single electronic commmunication is safe from Echelon,which with its zillions of computers and analysts can decipher such commns.,identifying key words and phrases.

http://www.techeye.net/security/china-s ... ed-echelon

China spy scare: hypocrisy is spelled Echelon
Or, why allies spy on each other
22 Feb 2010 | by John W. Daly

China has been receiving flak ever since Google confessed evil doers had cracked and compromised its systems, reading emails of Chinese dissidents. A steady stream of news has been gushing forth ever since, quoting diverse security experts and creating a sense of fear in regards to the yellow danger which is upon us, threatening our technological edge and the wealth it has bestowed upon us. Google even took up negotiations with the NSA, so None Such Agency may help ward off Dr. Fu-Manchu's sinister attacks on freedom and democracy.

However, the entire discussion is utterly hypocritical. Western allies have been spying on each other for decades, trying to oust each others rivalling industrial complexes and corporations from bids and steal patented technologies.

Back in 1993 and 1994, the German press had a field day after sources revealed French intelligence agency DGSE had intercepted a fax German conglomerate Siemens had sent to the South Korean government, containing an offer for a high-speed train system based on the German ICE. Apparently, the bid was shown to French train-maker GEC Alstom, whose Train de Grand Vitesse (TGV) was competing with Siemens. Despite widespread media coverage, both Siemens and the German government refrained from officially telling off France and resorted to making use of the silent channels of diplomacy.

Lack of evidence apparently was the main reason why senior management hushed the whole matter up. As a matter of fact, Siemens' CEO Heinrich von Pierer was rather upset when group executive manager Wolfram Martinsen lashed out accusations in an official protest note to the Korean government. Martinsen's memo was regarded as counterproductive as there was no sufficient evidence. Talks between GEC Alstom,

Siemens and the German Department of Transport were abandoned by the French. Nonetheless, the case is nearly always mentioned in hand-outs German students receive in internet security courses.

A couple of years later, English journalist Duncan Campbell reported to the European Parliament on the matter of Echelon, a vast eavesdropping network maintained by the NSA and the UK's very own GCHQ. Gathering economic intelligence became a main, yet unofficial directive in the early 1990ies, for members of the so-called UKUSA alliance. Echelon became a matter of parliamentary debate on the European level, especially after the Green faction decided there was enough evidence to support an official inquiry and added pressure.

Campbell wrote an article on Echelon back in 1998 for the New Statesman. As a delegate for the EU, Campbell penned a report entitled "Development Of Surveillance Technology And Risk Of Abuse Of Economic Information (An appraisal of technologies for political control)" for the EU Directorate General for Research.

The report cited an article from The Baltimore Sun, which stated the NSA had eavesdropped on satellite communications between Airbus and Saudi government officials concerning a deal with Saudi Airlines. Apparently Airbus officials wanted to bribe Saudi delegates - Boeing and McDonnell Douglas went on to win the $6 billion bid.

In March 2000, R. James Woolsey, a former Director of Central Intelligence, rebutted Europe's fears and public outcry concerning Echelon in an article for the Wall Street Journal. Woolsey stated in his commentary, aptly titled "Why we spy on our allies" that the US of A need not spy on European high-tech as US companies had the leading edge anyway. Instead the NSA spied on it's allies because European companies had to resort to tax-deductible bribery in order to win large contracts.

Mr Woolsey apparently forgot the Enercon case German newspaper Die Zeit reported on back in 1999. Enercon, a major German producer of wind turbines, received a written injunction in 1995 from a district court in San José and from the US Department of Commerce, claiming Enercon had infringed patents of Kenetech Windpower Inc.

Enercon's CEO Aloys Wobben had to appear in Washington and was questioned for two weeks.
Wobbens's lawyers were able to view Kenetech Windpower's evidence - which included a detailed report on how Kenetech employees Ruth Heffernan, Robert "Bob" Jans and Ubbo de Witt climbed up an Enercon E-40 turbine in 1994 and documented its inner workings over the course of an hour.

Apparently, the trio was able to access the turbine itself by disabling the security system. A journalist went on to tell Mr Wobben the NSA had previously intercepted security codes from Enercon and handed them over to Kenetech Windpower. Kenetech then sent it's engineers out to spy and patent a competitor's technology.

To cut a long story short - competitive intelligence is commonplace and has a long and very dirty history. All Western allies have been spying on one another for decades, even for centuries. France has been spying on Germany which has been spying around in the Balkan which was spied upon by the USA. Russia and China have been spying on the West since the 1990s, in an effort to modernise their defunct industries. Get a life, move on, it is all old news.

Why then, may one beg, is there such an outrage about China?

The answer is simple: so "we" can openly shame China and influence public opinion on the newest member The Great Game's current edition. So the people in the West can feel ideologically superior to China. So McAfee, Booz Allen Hamilton and the likes can sell more and more services. To pit "us" against "them". There are a ton of reasons, yet none of them are actually worth the public outrage.

Just remember to fear US ambitions in terms of laying hands on banking data of EU citizens and companies as much as you now fear the Chinese intern.
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[ramana]

What India needs now is a good story writer who can use IB and RAW exploits to bulid up their image after all the media hits that have taken place. Both of them did a great job persuading the Memon family to come back after they emigrated after the 92 Mumbai blasts. Thats a great coup which is never mentioned and passed off as good graces of the Memons!

[ankit-s]

Spy games through electronic eavesdropping.Echelon has been the US's most widely used system based upon a global network of bases liked to satellites and other systems.Not a single electronic commmunication is safe from Echelon,which with its zillions of computers and analysts can decipher such commns.,identifying key words and phrases.

with its zillions of computers and analysts

???????
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[Craig Alpert]

FBI shares details on Headley's recces across India

The FBI has reportedly shared fresh information with India on terror suspect David Headley and his links to the Pune blast. The FBI has also given details about new sites recced by Headley.

It is confirmed that Headley recced targets in Pune. Headley also recced the Raksha Bhavan in Delhi.

The government had earlier claimed that there was a clear link between the Pune attack and David Coleman Headley, who is in a Chicago jail after being arrested by the FBI in September.

Headley's charges in the US include working as an operative of the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) to plan and execute 26/11.

[Craig Alpert]

HIT, BUT STEALTHILY

[abhishek_sharma]

Raksha Bhavan on Headley radar

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... 005&mode=1