Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Sanku
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Sanku » 29 Apr 2010 10:10

sum wrote: * Shamsher Singh Maharajkumar, an ex-IPS officer posted in Islamabad, Bangkok and Canada. Reportedly settled in Canada after retirement. He's related to the royal family of Nabha in Punjab.


This is not a defection, he went to Canada after retirement. Cant fault him for that.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 10:21

IG was a realist. She didnt trust anyone. Not even the best of officers.

And the power equations were very clear, with IG. She was in charge, and the bureaucrats worked for her. Unlike today, when every bureaucrat runs his personal fiefdom, and many have delusions of grandeur like "It is WE who run the country".

As to the young officer who was refused at the time, her point was very valid. One bad report, and his career would be finished.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 29 Apr 2010 11:08

Diplomats are told NOT to fraternise with locals...What absurdity!On the contrary diplomacy is all about making friends and influencing people.How else do they get information that is of value to their country?Just from reading newspapers? For that you can do it through the Net! With regard to our diplomutts at work,some are v.well trained one must admit,others mediocre and some real asses.If diplomats isolate themselves from their hosts,then the lack of communication would seriously hamper results.There are rules when posted abroad,especially about personal relations with foreigners.Intimate "fraternising" happens all the time.The trick is to tell anyone who attempts blackmail to "fly a kite".One must study the goings on in Delhi too,where many western/foreign diplomutts are are similarly enjoying themselves in Indian "fleshpots"!

What needs to be reviewed are the security procedures.There were certainly grave lapses in the case of our "Madhuri-the-Houri".Our intel/security measures should be exceptionally stringent especially when vetting diplomutts,etc.,staffed in sensitive countries inimical to India,or who have a track record of attempting to penetrate Indian intel,etc.Regular Lie Detector tests should be made mandatory for all diplomutts,even of ambassador rank.No exceptions.Staff who have personality defects like alcoholism,weakness for women or men, should never be sent to stations like Islamabad,Beijing or Washington.Diplomutts who are seen to be heavy spenders should be carefully watched.There are scores of espionage cases worldwide for our counter-intel sleuths to study and develop safe and secure systems before sending out officers to a "war zone" like Pak.The Pakis play very dirty and very rough.Surveillance of Indian staff and their families,even children is total.They have assaulted at will our people and even tried to murder some.It was a most asinine act of the MEA to have sent such a vulnerable woman into a pig-sty like Pak.Had they instead sent her to Paris,she could've had as many affairs of the heart without the added baggage of espionage attached!

The task now in the Madhuri-the-Houri case is to ascertain asap the extent of the damage she has caused and other traitors if any who joined hands with her in working for Pak.The GOI should also amend the punishment for treason.The death sentence should be made mandatory to deter traitors...with retrospective effect!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kati » 29 Apr 2010 11:17

^^^^^^
Salman Haidar?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 12:19

There are so many wagging tongues in our government, that it defies belief!

So now the R&AW station chief's cover is spectacularly blown, thanks to our overenthusiastic 'sleuths', out to show the media what a good job theyve done. Regardless of the fact that the Pakistanis know very well who he is, there is an official dimension to these things, which allows a person to stay in a country as a diplomat, as long as the fiction of his identity is maintained.

Why cant a gag order be put on personnel of police agencies, save through an official spokesperson?

@Kati: No, I dont think it's Salman Haider. He would not have been a "young officer" of the IFS, even twenty years ago, since he was foreign secretary in the mid 1990s.
Last edited by ASPuar on 29 Apr 2010 12:24, edited 1 time in total.

sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 29 Apr 2010 12:23

ASPuar wrote:There are so many wagging tongues in our government, that it defies belief!

So now the R&AW station chief's cover is spectacularly blown, thanks to our overenthusiastic 'sleuths', out to show the media what a good job theyve done. Regardless of the fact that the Pakistanis know very well who he is, there is an official dimension to these things, which allows a person to stay in a country as a diplomat, as long as the fiction of his identity is maintained.

Why cant a gag order be put on personnel of police agencies, save through an official spokesperson?

Sweet revenge for the Pakis who had lost their Delhi station chief, Riaz Afridi, in a "freak electrocution" few months back

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sunny y » 29 Apr 2010 12:26

Madhuri case: Making an ass of ourselves by B. Raman

The government and our officers who have been talking to the media do not realise the importance of keeping the Pakistani intelligence guessing as to what Madhuri Gupta has been telling her interrogators. As for the media, it has converted the case into a slapstick serial, writes security expert B Raman

1991: Liviu Radu, a Romanian diplomat posted in New Delhi [ Images ], was kidnapped by some Khalistani terrorists. He got released as a result of an operation mounted by the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and the Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW). A Western intelligence agency co-operated in the operation. A senior External Affairs ministry official told the media about the identity of the Western agency. It was prominently carried by some sections of the media. The Western country concerned through its embassy in New Delhi strongly protested against the failure of the MEA officer to protect the identity of its agency.

1993: After the March 1993 Mumbai [ Images ] serial blasts, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) secretly sent a team of its explosive experts to Mumbai to help investigators of the Mumbai Police. They were put up in a Mumbai hotel under non-official cover. The team leader team was surprised to receive a phone call from a journalist of the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) then posted in New Delhi, who was aware of their FBI identity. Enquiries revealed that a senior Mumbai Police officer had told the journalist about their FBI identity and revealed to him the name of the hotel where they were staying. There was a strong protest from the FBI over the indiscretion of the police officer.

When the KGB, the Soviet intelligence agency, shot down and arrested Francis Gary Powers, the U-2 pilot of the CIA, for quite some time they did not reveal that they had caught him alive. They made an ass of the CIA and then President Dwight Eisenhower by keeping them guessing as to what happened to Powers.


http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/apr/ ... selves.htm

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Mayuresh » 29 Apr 2010 13:05

I wish we had officers who would have actually fallen in the honey-pots, had sex and then proudly asked the Pakis to publish the videos online... Something to the effect - "You B@$T@RD$, I have had fun with your women on your money and shall never reveal you any of our secrets... Please go ahead and make the video public, It is some kind of a conquest for me!" :rotfl: :D :rotfl:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 13:19

More evidence of the rush to reveal EVERYTHING to the media by our agencies, before even investigating or verifying, leading to spicy headlines like "RAW officer under scanner", "Senior Army officer under scanner", "couple in Rajouri under scanner".

Before throwing the Islamabad RAW station chief, a couple against whom nothing has been proven, and the reputation of the hapless army officer who is just related to the couple and visited them, the agencies are providing ALL info to the media.

Ridiculous.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 871941.cms

Spying case: Doctor couple quizzed in Rajouri

PTI, Apr 29, 2010, 12.41pm IST

JAMMU: A doctor couple in Rajouri have been questioned by security agencies in connection with the sensational espionage case involving an Indian diplomat, who was arrested on charges of spying for Pakistan.

A team of officials quizzed Dr Khem Raj Sharma and his wife Dr Champa Sharma for nearly two hours in connection with the spying case at Sunderbani in Rajouri district last night, highly placed sources told PTI.

During questioning, Champa Sharma told interrogators that diplomat Madhuri Gupta had visited her residence in Sunderbani on March 29 for a day after crossing from Pakistan via Wagha border in a Toyota vehicle registered in Pakistan.

Another close friend of theirs Dr Prem Lata had also come to their residence during the same time and they had visited various places in Jammu.

She left for Pakistan after a day and later Dr Prem Lata too left for her residence in Delhi.

During their stay, officials of the Military Intelligence (MI) had visited their residence to verify the details of the vehicle in which Gupta had come.

Champa also told the interrogators that she knew Madhuri through her friend Prem Lata, her batch mate at Lady Harding Medical College in Delhi.

She told interrogators that they used to call each other but no e-mails were exchanged between them, the sources said, adding Champa had opened an e-mail account 10-15 days back.

Referring to the Army officer whose name has figured during the investigation, they said the officer is brother of Dr Champa. He is a senior army officer posted in Meerut.

The couple had cooperated with the investigation but their involvement seems negligible, they said.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 13:25

Rather a comedown from this ridiculously blaring headline:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/woman ... er/612527/

Woman spy case: Senior Army, RAW official under scanner


In a new dimension to the sensational case of an Indian woman diplomat arrested on charge of spying for Pakistan, a high-ranking Army officer and an external intelligence agency official have come under the scanner of security agencies.

The diplomat, 53-year-old Madhuri Gupta, continued to be grilled in detention on Wednesday about information she is suspected to have passed on to Pakistani intelligence agencies. She was arrested here six days ago after being called back from Islamabad where she was posted as Second Secretary.

During Gupta's interrogation and earlier surveillance, the security agencies have zeroed in on a couple residing in Rajouri district of Jammu and Kashmir who were in regular touch through e-mail and telephone with the arrested diplomat in Islamabad. The Rajouri-based woman had gone to Pakistan several times.

Highly-placed sources said the senior Army officer used to visit the Rajouri couple while he was posted in the region. He is related to the couple but his frequent visits to them have aroused suspicion of the security agencies, the sources said.

Some of the e-mails exchanged between Gupta and the Rajouri woman are part of the documents being held as evidence against the diplomat, who is in the custody of the Delhi Police Special Cell.

The role of the external intelligence agency official is also being investigated. Gupta may have been taking information from him, the sources said.

However, it was not immediately clear whether he knew the woman officer's real designs. He could be questioned by the security agencies, they said.

Gupta, who belongs to IFS-B service, is the first official of the Foreign Service who has been arrested for allegedly spying for Pakistan.

Gupta is said to have been under surveillance of Indian security agencies for about four months before it was decided to arrest her. Gupta was called to Delhi last week on the pretext of discussion over SAARC summit being held at Thimphu.

Security agencies briefed senior Ministry of External Affairs officials about her alleged activities in Pakistan which included supplying of sensitive and classified documents related to Indian interests in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the sources said.

Gupta has been extensively questioned by sleuths of Intelligence Bureau and Delhi Police officials during which she claimed she used to obtain sensitive information within the Indian High Commission in Islamabad.

Sources said the woman diplomat had been allegedly passing information related to policy matters and movement of Indian officials to a Pakistani intelligence man identified as "Rana".

A promotee officer of Ministry of External Affairs, Gupta was working in the Mission for nearly three years and reportedly told the investigators that she had been passing information since 2008.

She was well versed in Urdu and her services were utilised for translation and interpretation. Earlier, she had a posting in the Indian Mission in Kuala Lumpur and worked with the 'India Perspective', a magazine of the External Publicity wing of the External Affairs Ministry.

The list of Indian officials and spying cases

Diplomat Madhuri Gupta, arrested on charges of spying for Pakistan, joins a list of several top Indian officials accused of leaking sensitive information or falling into honey trap in the past few decades.

The last such case is that of Navy officer Commodore Sukhjinder Singh, now being probed for his alleged liaison with a Russian woman between 2005 and 2007 -- when he was posted in Russia as the head of Indian team overseeing the refit of aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov.

A board of inquiry, set up against Singh after his objectionable photographs with the unidentified woman surfaced, is now probing whether his "loose moral conduct" and indiscretions have any connections with the Gorshkov deal which has been signed after a lot of negotiations due to the cost hike of the carrier.

In May 2008, a senior Indian Embassy official in Beijing was called back to New Delhi for falling to the charms of a Chinese honey trap.

Manmohan Sharma, a senior Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) officer, was alleged to be in a romantic affair with his Chinese language teacher. Indian authorities suspected the woman could be an informant of the Chinese government and gathered information about India's moves and counter-moves on the border talks.

In October 2007, a 1975 batch Research and Analysis Service (RAS) officer Ravi Nair was called back from Hong Kong for his 'friendship' with a girl believed to be working for a Chinese spy agency.

However, within a brief time Nair was again given a foreign posting in Colombo where the woman also came and allegedly started staying with him, raising suspicion.

The officials of other departments, posted at the Indian High Commission, sent reports about Nair to their respective departments paving way for his recall.

Like any other snooping agency, India's external Intelligence agency RAW has also a history of officials switching their loyalties to foreign agencies.

The most infamous case which shook RAW out of reverie was that of Rabinder Singh who became a mole of American intelligence agency CIA and flew to the US despite being under RAW surveillance.

Singh initially worked with the Indian Army and held a very senior position with RAW handling Southeast Asia. By the time the agency sensed his affiliations, Singh escaped to the US through Nepal in 2004.

The second blow came in 2006 with the discovery of another alleged CIA mole in India's National Security Council Secretariat, which is part of the Prime Minister's Office.

In the early 90s, an Indian Naval attache posted in Islamabad reportedly fell in love with a Pakistani woman working in the Military Nursing Service in Karachi.

The attache was interrogated and then forced to resign. Reports said the official, who had initially claimed having recruited the woman as a spy, was being blackmailed by the ISI, which wanted his services after his return to the Naval Headquarters in Delhi.

Then a personal assistant to a very senior RAW official disappeared in London in the early 90s.

Ashok Sathe, another official was also believed to have defected to the US after his mysterious disappearance.

Sathe was said to be behind burning down of RAW office in Khurramshahr in Iran.

In the early 1980s, a senior field officer disappeared in London. As attache in Kathmandu, he was alleged to be liaisoning with foreign intelligence agencies.

In another case, a senior Intelligence Bureau (IB) official, who was due to take over as the chief of counter-intelligence, had an "unauthorised" relationship with a female US consular officer. His meetings with her were recorded on camera by the IB, and he was forced to retire following interrogation.

However, in the history of Indian intelligence, the most written about case was that of K V Unnikrishnan, a RAW officer dealing with the LTTE. He had developed a relationship with an air hostess believed to be an intelligence scion. He was arrested just ahead of a peace accord signed between India and Sri Lanka.

The oldest case of 'honey trapping', when an Indian diplomat during the time of the first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru was trapped by a Russian girl in Moscow. When the Russian spy agency KGB presented him with the pictures of his activities with the girl, the diplomat informed his ambassador about his relationship and the KGB's attempts to blackmail him.

The ambassador raised the issue with Nehru, who was himself in charge of the External Affairs Ministry. Nehru just laughed it off, warning the young diplomat to be more careful in future.


Turns out that the "Senior Army Officer" is the lady doctors in Rajouri's brother. So why in the world would he not visit her frequently? Does this all need to come out into the media, tarnishing the doctor couple's reputation and throwing aspersions on the army officers integrity?
Last edited by ASPuar on 29 Apr 2010 13:29, edited 1 time in total.

ASPuar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 13:29

Sen_K wrote:
It has made the continuance of that officer in Pakistan untenable and with his identity exposed, he is no longer in a position to carry out his job. In fact, the revelation has jeopardised his chances of any similar assignment ever.

Questions are also being raised over the timing of the disclosure about Madhuri Gupta’s espionage activities, coming as it did just a day before the Prime Ministers of the two countries were to meet in Bhutan on the sidelines of the SAARC summit. Gupta had already been under detention for five days before the news broke out and sources said the investigators probably chose a wrong time to let the information become public.


Regrettable behaviour by our local agencies. There seems to be no sense of restraint at all. And government seems entirely unable to control its verbose minions.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby bhavik » 29 Apr 2010 13:34

When you catch a spy,
do you make the info public instantly Or you wait till entire spy ring is destroyed ?

Are Indian agencies controlled by dumbos?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Cecil » 29 Apr 2010 13:56

sum wrote:Sweet revenge for the Pakis who had lost their Delhi station chief, Riaz Afridi, in a "freak electrocution" few months back


Can I get to read about this? I was not able to find anything on the net but I would love to read about the "freak electrocution" incident. Thanks

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 14:25

Here you go:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/isi-o ... an/528461/

‘ISI officer’ electrocuted in Delhi, body taken to Pakistan


M K Afridi, political counsellor at the Pakistan High Commission and believed by Indian intelligence officials to be a senior ISI staffer, died of electrocution at his home in Vasant Vihar, south Delhi, on Sunday night.

His body was taken to Pakistan through the Wagah border after intervention at the highest level.

Pakistan High Commission officials left Delhi at around 3 am on Monday, crossing into Pakistan at around 8 am. No autopsy was conducted, and no foul play is suspected.

Police said Afridi, 47, had gone for a bath after returning from work on Sunday night. Judging by the way his body was found, it appears he was blow-drying his hair when the electric dryer short-circuited, officers said.

Afridi’s wife found him in the bathroom with his hands charred, holding the dryer. She disconnected the machine and immediately rang a mission official, who rushed Afridi to Fortis Hospital in Vasant Kunj. He was declared dead by doctors at the hospital at 10 pm.

“Fortis officials called the PCR and informed them about the incident. A police team was rushed to the hospital. Afridi’s wife and other mission officials told us they had no reason to suspect foul play, following which the body was released,” a senior police officer at Vasant Vihar police station said.

Afridi’s landlord, Subhash Chandra Rastogi, said over the phone that he had rented the premises out to the Pakistan High Commission. “Afridi and his family had been staying there for the past two and a half years. He was a very decent man,” Rastogi said.


Its unlikely that any of this happened on purpose though. Relations between the two intel services are on a tit for tat basis, and neither would go to the trouble of killing anyone from the other, simply because it invites instant retaliation.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby parshuram » 29 Apr 2010 14:35

Saar Uspey Bijli Oct 2009 mein giri Thi, Read The date in the article .. why raise and kill him again :((

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 29 Apr 2010 14:44

parshuram wrote:Saar Uspey Bijli Oct 2009 mein giri Thi, Read The date in the article .. why raise and kill him again :((


Parshuram: If you read a few posts up, Sum had mentioned that this incident might be a tit for tat for the hairdryer death of the Delhi station ISI chief. Cecil, above, had asked if anyone could post the details of the story. I did so for his benefit, and for that of other members who may not know of the matter.

In any case, I don't think any foul play was involved in the episode.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby parshuram » 29 Apr 2010 14:58

My Bad Saar .. In My Opinion Highly Unlikely Saar . First she is one of our own . and second if you remember media quoting that she was recruited in either Baghdad or Turkey and NOT in pakistan. I don't beleive Pakistani's would be that big a fools to maintain any connection of this jackpot they had with the guy killed in India . In order to make any conectivity RAW must have to trace any sort of communication between two and i beleive pakistanis will not do this knowing that RAW is monitoring them big time ....

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 29 Apr 2010 15:03

Mayuresh wrote:I wish we had officers who would have actually fallen in the honey-pots, had sex and then proudly asked the Pakis to publish the videos online... Something to the effect - "You B@$T@RD$, I have had fun with your women on your money and shall never reveal you any of our secrets... Please go ahead and make the video public, It is some kind of a conquest for me!" :rotfl: :D :rotfl:


OT here - But this happened in case of an Egyptian Nuclear Scientist. Israelis took snaps of him in the act and showed them to him later. The idea was to blackmail him and make him turncoat. The good doctor saw the pics, said he likes this and this one and would like to keep them. :lol:

Failing to trap him, the Israelis bumped him off later.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 29 Apr 2010 15:19

ASPuar wrote:
parshuram wrote:Saar Uspey Bijli Oct 2009 mein giri Thi, Read The date in the article .. why raise and kill him again :((


Parshuram: If you read a few posts up, Sum had mentioned that this incident might be a tit for tat for the hairdryer death of the Delhi station ISI chief. Cecil, above, had asked if anyone could post the details of the story. I did so for his benefit, and for that of other members who may not know of the matter.

In any case, I don't think any foul play was involved in the episode.

Actually, it was never my intention to suggest that Afridi was bumped off my RAW. All i was saying was that the Pakis managed to get even in a way since even we have now "lost" our station chief ( though this is due to paki intel and DDM) just like they lost theirs sometime back.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Vivek Raghuvanshi » 29 Apr 2010 15:23

8th Wonder of the World:

India is NEVER able to find KGB / FSB and 2nd Bureau MOLES

Nobody needs to DEFECT to CHINA or RUSSIA

Ha..ha..ha.. :twisted:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Sanku » 29 Apr 2010 15:26

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Nobody needs to DEFECT to CHINA or RUSSIA


Quite understandable, WHO wants to defect to Russia? Willingly that is?
:twisted:

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Apr 2010 19:33

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/madhu ... adlines%29


Madhuri Gupta may have embraced Islam: Report

Posted: Thursday , Apr 29, 2010 at 1606 hrs
Islamabad:

Madhuri Gupta, the 53-year-old second secretary arrested on charges of spying for Pakistan, may have embraced Islam about six years ago, a media report has claimed.

Gupta, who was posted at the Indian High Commission in Islamabad was perhaps a Shia Muslim, according to a media report.

"She was really inspired by the teachings of Islam but was scared to announce her new faith," reads a report in the Post.

"Her kin has very close relations with a well-known Muslim family of Ashiq Hussain Jafri in Lucknow".

Ms Gupta spent her early life in Lucknow with Jafri's family where she enthused (sic) Islamic values," the Post quoted a source as saying.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 29 Apr 2010 19:48

so kati ji's hint was on the money.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kati » 29 Apr 2010 19:51

I wish this info was kept secret. Anyway, ASPuar, now you got your answer to your question to my posting that
I made two days ago.



chetak wrote:http://www.indianexpress.com/news/madhuri-gupta-may-have-embraced-islam-report/613039/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+indianexpress%2Filvl+%28Top+Headlines%29


Madhuri Gupta may have embraced Islam: Report

Posted: Thursday , Apr 29, 2010 at 1606 hrs
Islamabad:

Madhuri Gupta, the 53-year-old second secretary arrested on charges of spying for Pakistan, may have embraced Islam about six years ago, a media report has claimed.

Gupta, who was posted at the Indian High Commission in Islamabad was perhaps a Shia Muslim, according to a media report.

"She was really inspired by the teachings of Islam but was scared to announce her new faith," reads a report in the Post.

"Her kin has very close relations with a well-known Muslim family of Ashiq Hussain Jafri in Lucknow".

Ms Gupta spent her early life in Lucknow with Jafri's family where she enthused (sic) Islamic values," the Post quoted a source as saying.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 29 Apr 2010 20:31

Kati wrote:I wish this info was kept secret. Anyway, ASPuar, now you got your answer to your question to my posting that
I made two days ago.


Boss, her association with the Dargah Ajmer Sharif is there on her facebook page for all to see. It was time some of our brilliantissimo investigative ddm got to it, no?! The bums from Telegraph got to lichi, paani puri and all that, but failed to mention the Chishti Foundation, very convenient no?! It is only time that folks associated her as a spy for multiple countries, not just pakisatan. She was the liasion officer in the press bureau of the High Commission.
Last edited by Stan_Savljevic on 29 Apr 2010 20:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2010 20:36

Mrs IG was right in denying the earlier posting. The establishment (security and media) will go beserk if any religious angle is found out for any IFS/other personnel posted in TSP. I wish the Sherlocks stop for a moment and think why would a Shia person spy for TSP which victimizes Shias among others with Non State Actors like Sipah-e-Shaeba.


And BRamanji should admonish his own folks who are leaking left and right to gain marginal limelight to the media which is printing it. Its not like the press is coming up with the stuff. its getting it from sources.

Why doesn't the GOI have a spokesperson whenever there is a crisis? Its always unnamed sources who are quoted.The GOI is tiself unsure about what to say and lets speculation go rampant. Even in 26/11 terrorist attack it was left to field forces to giveout news and that led to open season for DDMitis.

The real reason is the GOI (political wing) never makes a statement so that it cant be blamed when it turns out incorrect. And filed forces court press to get some positive publicity for they get negative press all the time.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 29 Apr 2010 20:59

Did anyone see Chidu's speech in LS on the phone tapping issue?

He made it clear that he is trying to bring the NTRO under the MHA from the current dotted line to PM via the NSA.
He also said that the equipment NTRO is light years behind what some of the advanced nations have and he was bowled over by the power of the gadgets when taken around such facilities ( must be NSA) in US.

The PMO/MHA power struggle might intensify over the NTRO issue. I stil feel MHA leaked the news of Madhuri Gupta to try and salvage some face saver lest MMS/SSM tagteam did a SeS at Thimpu. Cant believe that am missing MKN after having felt that he was the chief villain( when he was NSA) when he actually turned out to be a major force in preventing earlier sellouts.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby RoyG » 29 Apr 2010 22:48

^^I feel the same way. If this is a deliberate leak to thwart a SeS, it makes you wonder if she was a small fish in the grander scheme of things. The timing of the seemingly damaging leaks are keeping this affair alive and do not instill much confidence into the public about the dialogue process. So much for making the talks appear as a shining beacon of light for the thumb twiddling masses.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Apr 2010 23:43

RoyG wrote:^^I feel the same way. If this is a deliberate leak to thwart a SeS, it makes you wonder if she was a small fish in the grander scheme of things. The timing of the seemingly damaging leaks are keeping this affair alive and do not instill much confidence into the public about the dialogue process. So much for making the talks appear as a shining beacon of light for the thumb twiddling masses.


Maybe they all feel that one gujral is more than enough. Another one like him and the damage may become irreversible and the situation irrecoverable. All said and done, there is tremendous reluctance to back MMS and his give away the family silver approach.

Funny how the amerikis are openly showing their hand at every stage, knowing full well that it infuriates the Indian aam jantha and elite alike.

The pakis are desperate to take advantage of the situation before some Indian big shot fades away into obscurity due to "ILLNESS"
It may also just mean that more favors are still to be called in post the nuke deal, and the pakis know that the fix is in.

Quereshi is certainly a slimy, greasy and cocky paki. The pakis can hardly afford to have such a heavy footed buffoon on the loose. He has all the cheap mannerisms of an unsuccessful gigolo on the prowl.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Anujan » 29 Apr 2010 23:46

FWIW One of the Pakistani editors tells me (dont ask me how I know), that Indian FO & Journos tell them that MMS truly has affection for Pakistan and there is incredible Unkil pressure on us.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 29 Apr 2010 23:53

sum wrote:Did anyone see Chidu's speech in LS on the phone tapping issue?

He made it clear that he is trying to bring the NTRO under the MHA from the current dotted line to PM via the NSA.
He also said that the equipment NTRO is light years behind what some of the advanced nations have and he was bowled over by the power of the gadgets when taken around such facilities ( must be NSA) in US.

The PMO/MHA power struggle might intensify over the NTRO issue. I stil feel MHA leaked the news of Madhuri Gupta to try and salvage some face saver lest MMS/SSM tagteam did a SeS at Thimpu. Cant believe that am missing MKN after having felt that he was the chief villain( when he was NSA) when he actually turned out to be a major force in preventing earlier sellouts.

sum, I haven't seen it all but from what I did it seemed to me that NTRO functions on call on demand from various agencies. note that he mentioned that the only person authorised to set up phonetaps is the home secretary, both at central and state level. that kind of seems odd to me, IMHO that power at central level should be with NSA, rather than a bureaucrat whose focus is broader than just overall security.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2010 23:58

In Indian babucracy, the Home Secy is the second most powerful job after the Cabinet Secy. No NSA can supplant the chain of command. He has to get the HS to autheroize the work.

The real issue is that the sweep/gear was used in the Capital and on political figures. Authroization etc are procedural things.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2010 00:35

Times of India reports:

Only 'routine' info passed to teach IFS officers a lesson, says Gupta
TNN, Apr 29, 2010, 12.16am IST


NEW DELHI: Madhuri Gupta, the Indian diplomat accused of spying for Pakistan, has apparently told her interrogators that she passed on only "routine" information to her Pakistani handler as she was keen to teach IFS officers a lesson for treating her shabbily. :(

Government sources said it would have been difficult for an official of her rank to pass on “sensitive” information.

Investigators have identified 53-year-old Gupta's handler as Mudassar Rana, a Pakistani internal intelligence official, who is not from ISI. Gupta, however, admitted that she knew Rana as a Pakistani army captain with ISI links. She denied any physical relationship with her handler.

Gupta's questioning also threw up five more names with whom she was in touch. Gupta was introduced to 56-year-old Rana by one of her journalist friends in Pakistan. Well versed in Sufism and Urdu, Gupta was on study leave at JNU before her Islamabad posting where she did research in Urdu language.

Gupta's main task was to monitor and record daily reporting in the Urdu press. She used to prepare a daily report and send it to her superiors. These reports and other details of the Indian mission's activities were being passed on to Rana for the past two years, said a senior official.

Isnt what is being monitored also valuable information"

Gupta was also tasked with keeping tabs on Urdu media reports on the arrest of LeT operatives David Coleman Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana, both accused in the 26/11 attacks of Mumbai.

Officials said Gupta used to meet her contact in Markaz Super Market, also called Jinnah Market, and IFFI Cafe in Islamabad. Sources said that a few months back, another official posted at the Islamabad mission was called back by the MEA after Gupta's role came under the scanner. This official, who is believed to be under the watch of intelligence officials, will soon be questioned by Delhi Police.

Sources also claimed that Gupta, a Grade-B officer, had been receiving large amounts of money from the ISI which she deposited in a Pakistani bank and then transferred to Indian banks. After Gupta's arrest, another senior Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) official has come under the scanner for allegedly passing information to her.

Interestingly, Gupta has accused RAW station chief R K Sharma of being a spy. This apparently has prevented authorities from giving Sharma a clean chit. Sources, however, said it was Sharma who had first brought to light Gupta's association with Rana and the possibility that she might have been giving information to him. Sharma first disclosed this to officials in the Indian mission about five months ago.

Sharma admitted that he initially became friendly with Gupta but later got suspicious as she started to insist on acquiring information on India's intelligence operations in Pakistan.

Could be hell hath no fury than a woman scorned?

While authorities are examining Gupta's email accounts and call details, government sources maintained that it would have been very difficult for her to hand over sensitive information to her handler. They denied that any sensitive information pertaining to India's operations in Afghanistan could have been passed on to the ISI operative.

"One possibility is that she told her handler all information which she gathered from documents which she was given to translate in Urdu. However, it was mostly related to appointments, travel schedule and public dealings of the high commission. We believe not much has been lost even though she did have some information which a person of her rank should not have had," said a highly placed government official. Gupta also denied that she made any attempt to bug offices in the high commission by planting transmitting devices.

So the GOI is supposed to believe her? Why would she implicate herself? Also did she pass on who was whoi Kabul to the TSP? She would know from her appointments and travel schedules?


Meanwhile, an Indian army officer is also said to be under the scanner for links with Gupta, but this is not confirmed. Gupta is said to have been in touch with the officer who belongs to Rajouri in J&K and also his relatives with whom she purportedly exchanged emails.

Gupta had worked as assistant director with ICWA at Sapru House. She had earlier served in the Indian mission in Baghdad, Serbia, Kuala Lumpur and Croatia, said an official.



The link to JNU which jellifies the mind and makes one see friends where only enemies abound!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2010 00:49

She got all those postings yet resents the IFS cadre? If she was so good why didnt she write the exam and pass the interview? Sour grapes cant justify such perfidy. Also looks like the whole Conter Intelligence process has failed to pick up her signs prior to her posting. Dont they interview or vet the employee before posting into a cauldron? Wonder if some norms were violated in dealing with her posting?

Arent there rules to report any foreign contacts no matter how trivial?


So the Pak journo is the scout who passes on potential targets to handlers (who misrepresent their service) for further grooming. I think her first mistake was to nurse a grudge on IFS bosses. Second was she probabaly let the journo, a copy of her Urdu press reports analysis. Once that happened she got into the net. ANd then it was downhill after that. She justifies her downward path other resentment, whereas it was her first handing over her analysis to the Jurno recruiter. The Indian DDM better beware of phappi/jhappi for the journo they are cavorting with could be spy.

What does Vir Singhvi think about all this.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2010 00:56

I think she is doing a disservice to all IFS-B officers by claiming to have resentment of IFS folks. Its more likely rationalization for her perfidy. How can a candle resent a light bulb?

Group B not really the B Team of IFS

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kati » 30 Apr 2010 02:17

^^^^^^
...............She denied any physical relationship with her handler.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: How do we know??????

Jokes aside, this lonely lady heart has decided to create havoc to other innocent colleagues by casting doubts
in the investigators' minds. Classic approach. Just muddy the water and watch Tamasha.

Even though religious, cultural, socio-economic, family background shouldn't play any role for the posting of
diplomats, but such issues are vital for having a clear profile of each individual. Such things must be given
equal importance with professional competency. Lonely hearts are always dangerous in all sensitive posts
cutting across the professions.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 30 Apr 2010 02:46

ramana wrote:She got all those postings yet resents the IFS cadre?

ramana, things dont add up. Why were her postings primarily in Muslim areas, baghdad, KL, Kosovo (!)?

She was lured into the honeypot bait (not in paki land), but either baghdad or KL. KL and baghdad are also hunting grounds for the iranian ci due to shia insecurity. Mohtarma has embraced the "sufi" version, more specifically the one from Sh. Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti. Mohtarma's Persian talents have not been talked about at all. She could very well have been fingered by the paki IB, but I am willing to bet that she was primarily batting for iran. Adds to plausible deniability of the new-age aryans. Concerns about our position on af-pak adds veracity to this kinda CT. Either that and our apparatus is maintaining a studious silence or my dope is hitting my head...

Shyamd: what do your sources say about an iranian hand in the pie?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Apr 2010 03:37

Pioneer reports on an old case

FRONT PAGE | Friday, April 30, 2010 | Email | Print |


Medicare denial to feted soldier opens up RAW wound

Deepak Kumar Jha | New Delhi

Agencies fail to gather evidence against ex-Brigadier charged with spying, say friends

To put a decorated soldier behind the bars for four years on the charges of espionage and then fail to gather evidence could be a case of poor investigation. But denying medical help to the accused officer could amount to denial of justice. In the wake of the investigative agencies’ failure to gather evidence against Brigadier (Retd) Ujjal Dasgupta and two others and the deteriorating health of the officer, his former colleagues have begun a campaign seeking justice for Dasgupta.

“Dasgupta’s health is in a bad shape. What is worrying is that now his spirit also seems to be breaking. Unless something is done, he will languish in the prison. I think we need to highlight his case. Efforts have to be made through human rights groups and NGOs. We are not asking for his release without trial. Once the trial begins, he will be acquitted since there is really no evidence. But at least he can be released on bail. If convicts can be given bail (including Sanjay Dutt), why not an under trial,” said Major General (Retd) VK Singh through saveud.blogspot.com. Singh was on deputation in R&AW and has authored a book titled India’s External Intelligence; Secrets of R&AW in 2007. The book speaks volumes on the corruption within the intelligence.

Accusing the authorities of being guided by their vested interests, the Brigadier’s friends have dubbed the entire episode an attempt to frame up Dasgupta even without an iota of evidence coupled with a deficient chargesheet filed against him in October 2006.

Dasgupta along with two others were arrested in 2006. The co-accused, Shiv Shankar Paul (38), a systems analyst at the National Security Council Secretariat, his superior officer Commander Mukesh Saini (58) who had retired on March 31, 2006, and Brigadier Ujjal Dasgupta (64), head of the computer section of Research & Analysis Wing were also charged of espionage and booked under the Official Secrets Act (OSA) for allegedly passing on information to Rosanna Minchew (31), an American diplomat.

Dasgupta, while deputed in the R&AW, was arrested on July 19, whereas Paul was arrested on June 11, 2006. Later, Saini was also picked by the investigators on July 6. Dasgupta was involved in a project Anveshak, a software developed for the R&AW by the Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC) as well as the Army. The Army has since clarified that the software developed was not classified.

The case history reveals the involvement of Saini and Minchew as coordinators in the Indo-US Cyber Security Forum, an offshoot of the Joint Working Group on Counter-Terrorism. The NSCS had participation of officers from all key Indian agencies, including the Intelligence Bureau, R&AW, the armed forces, the super-secret National Technical Reconnaissance Office. The NSCS at times doubled as the Joint Intelligence Committee, the nodal agency from the Indian side.

As a US nominee to the forum, Minchew, reportedly an intelligence officer under diplomatic cover, according to media reports then, was a regular participant in its programmes and visited the NSCS headquarters in New Delhi several times. Sources say that Minchew left the country sometime in May 2006; her last recorded visit to the NSCS was on March 30. While she managed to go out from the country, the three Indians accused of spying are languishing in jail and their trial yet to get underway with no sight of a bail. The irony has it that Minchew, who is labelled an American diplomat in the case history, obtained visa sanctions after having ‘secured’ clearances from the Indian intelligence agencies — the IB and R&AW.

As per his medical history, Dasgupta, 64, had suffered a massive heat attack in November 1988 and had undergone a bypass graft surgery at AIIMS. Again he developed complications in October 2003 for which his coronary angiography was done in Escorts. The following year, Brigadier was put on drugs for life and the Delhi High Court allowed his treatment at Army Research and Referral Hospital. His condition deteriorated in November 2009 and the findings of ARRH was that the “patient has worsening chest pain on exertion and even at rest and is advised to undergo CT angiography”. “The patient’s condition is critical. His medical attention is life-threatening and at any moment an emergency may arise. By the time he will be evacuated from his cell, precious time will be lost. There is no facility for emergency cardiac treatment in the jail hospital and the nearest hospital, DDU, does not have cardiac emergency facilities. RR hospital is 12 km away,” said a close friend of Dasgupta.

It might be noted that in the defence of Dasgupta, according to sources, R&AW has reportedly communicated to the investigating sleuths that “Dasgupta has done nothing wrong and they have no evidence to present to support the Government’s case”. Well-placed sources involved in the prosecution and defence revealed that the chargesheet “is full of errors and would not stand scrutiny in a court of law”. Dasgupta’s family declined to comment on the issue. However, they mentioned that as far as health is concerned Dasgputa is facing the worst period of his life and needs immediate and proper medical attention.

“The sleuths in order to satisfy their ego and assert their supremacy have made Dasgupta their prey. He is paying the price for having served the country with integrity and dedication,” said a blogger.



Looks like Mrs IG was right.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 30 Apr 2010 04:04

“There is no remorse for betraying the country. She believes she has done nothing wrong, may be as she is a recent convert to Sufi philosophy, which does not respect artificial borders,’’ the official explained.

Too shocking for ddm indeed...
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_ma ... py_1377163

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby arun » 30 Apr 2010 07:52

^^^ Besides inducing Madhuri Gupta to spy for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, has the Sufi Islam lack of belief in borders got something to do with a Sufi Islam affinity (or not) for the restoration of the Caliphate aka Khilafat?

I must say I am very surprised that the fact that Madhuri Gupta was a Muslim convert has been allowed to be leaked out. Not something that I would have expected from a Congress party dominated Government.


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