Intelligence & National Security Discussion

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Philip
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Philip »

PC is alleged to be WalMart's agent in India.Some allege that he has stri=ong links to the rag trade too.Whatever the truth,he is perhaps the most hated FM the country has ever had,just ask any CA.

Here's a superb book n the British Secret Service.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la ... 5742.story

Then-Atty. Gen. Hartley William Shawcross, left, and Eric Neve chat in 1949. Shawcross also prosecuted atomic bomb spy Klaus Fuchs. Photo: Associated Press.BOOK REVIEW

'Secret Wars: One Hundred Years of British Intelligence Inside MI5 and MI6' by Gordon Thomas

This captivating study of secret British intelligence over the last century draws its power from rich anecdotes and interviews.
By Tim Rutten
March 25, 2009
The experience of empire seems to leave a people with at least a taste, if not a particular talent, for conspiracy. Certainly, that's true of the Russians for whom the one place at which the history of czarism and Bolshevism most clearly conjoins is in a lasting predilection for plots and plotting. It's true as well for the British, who transmuted the gifted amateurism of Kipling's "great game" into the modern world's first recognizable professional intelligence agencies.

It's not for nothing that Bill Haydon -- the Kim Philby-like English double agent in John le Carré's classic "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" -- informs his interrogator and betrayed friend, George Smiley, that he'd "always regarded the secret services as the only true expression of a nation's character."

In fact, as Gordon Thomas points out in his rollicking, readable new history of Britain's famous spy organizations -- "Secret Wars: One Hundred Years of British Intelligence Inside MI5 and MI6" -- when the future head of OSS, William Donovan, sought to convince President Franklin D. Roosevelt that America required equivalent services, he argued, "These are organizations that helped rule an empire."

MI6 is Britain's external spy service -- like our CIA -- and reports to the foreign secretary, the British equivalent of our secretary of State. MI5 is responsible for internal security -- rather like our FBI, but without its power to make arrests -- and is responsible to the home secretary, roughly our attorney general. Both will mark their 100th anniversaries this August. A longtime reporter and commentator on intelligence affairs, Thomas is the author of more than 40 nonfiction books and novels, along with a clutch of screenplays.

Revealing tales

It takes nothing away from this new book to describe it as a popular history, though the quality of the storytelling is such that even many specialists are likely to find new nuggets of insight. Thomas takes a novelist's approach: We're told where on Savile Row the head of MI6 has his suits tailored and that he wears a Travellers Club tie, sits at a desk once used by Adm. Lord Horatio Nelson and writes his most important communications with a Parker pen filled with green ink from a Victorian desk well. (He also has a desk console that links him instantly to the prime minister, the heads of the Central Intelligence Agency and Israel's Mossad.)

Thomas builds one fast-paced anecdote upon another, often yielding surprising insights, such as the fact that Allen Dulles, who ran the OSS' European operations for Donovan out of a base in Switzerland, was, unlike his overwhelmingly Anglophilic Ivy League colleagues in the early CIA, profoundly anti-English. He'd acquired an antipathy for imperialism and the English class system while working as a schoolteacher in India before beginning his celebrated career as a Wall Street lawyer. (He also was carefully monitored and manipulated by Philby during those early days with OSS.)

The author's anecdotal account of Philby's ultimate unmasking by Dulles and other CIA officials is quite good, as is his rendering of the class system's role in the failure of MI6 and MI5 to uncover not only their deep penetration by the Soviets' KGB but also by atomic spies -- Klaus Fuchs, Alan Nunn and Bruno Pontecorvo -- all of whom were vetted into the Manhattan Project by British intelligence. Thomas is equally strong on American double agents, particularly Aldrich H. Ames, who betrayed for money rather than ideology and, ultimately, did even more damage than Philby, virtually closing down U.S. human intelligence in the Eastern Bloc.

For all its narrative vigor, one of the strengths of "Secret Wars" is the clarity of its attribution. Anecdotes are studded not only with novelistic details but also with direct quotations. Thomas provides a lengthy list of his on-the-record sources, who include several former CIA and Mossad directors; the legendary chief of East Germany's Stasi, Marcus Wolff; and the one-time consulting psychiatrist to MI5 and MI6.

While the author's eye and ear for the nuances of British society and politics are keen, he sometimes fumbles with American details. Whatever Jimmy Carter's presidential peculiarities, emulating John F. Kennedy's accent and hairstyle was not among them. Gen. Walter Bedell Smith did not idolize Gen. George S. Patton. In fact, while Smith served as Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower's chief of staff during World War II, he and Patton came to loathe each other.

Thomas is particularly good at picking anecdotes that demonstrate the cooperative power of the democracies' intelligence agencies -- when they chose to employ them. For example, the Provisional IRA's increasing links to the Eastern Bloc during the 1970s and, through the KGB, to international terrorists like George Habash and his Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, were developed in Belfast by the Mossad's director of operations, Rafi Eitan. The first advice to the British government that it could contain, but never defeat, violent Irish nationalism in Ulster -- a critical insight that was the first step on London's journey to the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to the province -- was delivered by an MI6 agent on the ground. Key information on Pakistan's renegade nuclear proliferation racket came early from MI6 and Mossad.

About Bin Laden . . .

Looking ahead to the ongoing struggle with jihadi terrorists -- whom Thomas and his sources, more than many American analysts, seem to believe are much more crucially linked to Osama bin Laden's continued physical well-being -- the author misses a point that's well worth making. The West and its democratic allies, relying in larger part on their intelligence agencies, already have waged two successful campaigns against international terrorism: containment and pacification of the IRA and the defeat and destruction of the terrorist international the KGB attempted to construct in the 1970s out of groups like the PLF, the German Red Army faction, Italy's Red Brigades and Spain's ETA. (Only the latter group of Basque separatists limps along in shadow form, though under increasing pressure from Spanish and French authorities.)

Though Thomas believes that Bin Laden presents a uniquely threatening case -- he judges him more personally aberrant than either Hitler or Stalin, which seems rather dubious -- he does think that Islamist radicalism can be defeated through more openness among the democratic intelligence agencies. The larger challenge, he argues, is for Britain's MI5 and MI6 to fully cooperate with the 25 spy agencies working within the European Union without sacrificing their "special relationship" with America's CIA and NSA. "If global terrorism is to be defeated," Thomas writes, "then British, European and U.S. intelligence services must be more open-handed in sharing their secrets with services that would never have featured on their distribution list prior to 9/11." That will require, he realistically concludes, a concomitant degree of new political transparency. Thomas argues that while the protection of sources "must remain paramount," we no longer can neglect an insight that comes from -- of all unlikely places -- that most implacable of all CIA Cold Warriors, James Angleton: "Secrecy from public scrutiny leads to often uncheckable and different accounts of the same events, which are often contradictory and distorted."

There are thousands upon thousands of dead Iraqis, Americans and Britons whose fresh graves are mute testimony to the old spy's tragic wisdom.
Ananth
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Ananth »

What irks officers within RAW is the way these "requests" for withdrawal are treated by the government. Last year, when Ravi Nair was pulled out of Colombo, there were allegations of him being associated with a "Chinese spy". However, a subsequent inquiry revealed that the charges were blatantly false. Instead, it came to light that Sri Lankan foreign minister Rohitha Bogollagama had orchestrated the whole episode.
One of the main insinuator against Nair was our own dear Saikat Dutta. The fellow assumes that everyone is as forgetful as himself.

From the many reports surfacing, there seems to be a real problem with officers on deputation. The revolving door policy has advantages but it is also being used as a parking tenure. The problems are kind of fuzzy to outsiders like us who rely only on OS info. But there are problems especially in areas of man management and morale at RAW which need to be diagnosed properly and fixed.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by KiranM »

sum wrote:True, but the para below doesnt inspire much confidence of a turnaround:
Simultaneously, RAW has failed to attract new talent. It has recruited only six officers in the last eight years and continues to depend on officers on deputation who leave soon after completing a lucrative foreign posting. This has led to a severe drought of expertise and has left the ras cadre, raised specially to man the agency in the 1970s, demoralised and languishing in ignominy.
Also,
A similar dispute between the RAW officer in Germany and his IB counterpart led to the present impasse. The Indian ambassador, unimpressed with the quality of reports the officer was generating, raised the issue with the MEA, leading to the officer's imminent recall.
IB afsar posted in Germany and being a counterpart to the RAW man posted there?? :-?

Do IB guys get overseas posting(esp to very far off areas, not nearby SAARC places) even with RAW around?
Embassy Counter Intel folks. Especially to sanitise from bugs, etc.
shyamd
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

sum wrote:True, but the para below doesnt inspire much confidence of a turnaround:
IB afsar posted in Germany and being a counterpart to the RAW man posted there?? :-?

Do IB guys get overseas posting(esp to very far off areas, not nearby SAARC places) even with RAW around?
Yes, usually in most embassies.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

Thanks for the info, guys...

Didn't know that IB is in charge of "de-bugging" etc...I always thought that the technical wing of RAW takes care of all that.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by satya »

Indian Intelligence: Awaiting Still Its Tryst with Destiny
By A.K.Verma.

This paper written by former Intelligence Chief of Cabinet Secretariat is another piece that needs wider dissemination and discussion. We would welcome comments and suggestions from our readers on the issues raised.-Director

Indian Intelligence is frequently in the news, often for the wrong reasons. It is a favourite kicking target for a large number of those who compulsively articulate, like the media, political leaders, academics etc. Why should it be so when its stellar contributions to national security have quite often been praised by different Prime Ministers at different times in India’s history? A public acknowledgement of the services rendered is also indicated by the Padma awards, bestowed on Intelligence personnel from time to time.

But there is no denying that the system suffers from many fault lines, some systemic, some a legacy of the past but most due to reluctance, express or implicit at various levels in the power structure of the country, to bring about a change. It is the cumulative mindset, operating at the cutting level in the country which is mostly responsible for this dismal state of affairs. Also, the mindset does not or perhaps cannot change in a few short decades. National security has never been a hot issue with the people at large as evident from several public polls conducted in the country. Removal of the fault lines, therefore, remains a low priority. The episodic prominence the subject receives now and then has proved incapable of influencing the frozen channels in the subconscious.

For any State, Intelligence is a prime necessity, not only to know about adversaries but also about friends, so as to remain fore warned about their intentions and capabilities and to prevent surprises. It is a multidimensional complex activity but its basics remain the same, collection, analysis, counter intelligence and covert actions. A fair idea about the functioning of Indian Intelligence can be made by examining how well it is equipped for handling these four sectors.

Collection is a three pronged exercise, each arm performing a distinct role. Published information provides the bulk of intelligence, close to 80%. Well researched articles and books and field journalists not only prove invaluable source of key facts, they also provide reliable insights into any situation a country maybe interested in. Advent of computers now makes recording, indexing and retrieval of such information a lot easier but if the organization is not computer savvy, a good part of such information would fail to get stored. One suspects that such skills are still to be universally acquired and mastered in the world of Indian Intelligence. If this is correct, it bespeaks of a handicap at the starting level itself.

Technological and scientific means invariably produce intelligence of high accuracy. The gadgetry required for technical collections is very expensive and the state of art equipment is not available in the market. Investigations into Mumbai 26/11 events reveal that intercepts of Voice over Internet Protocol conversations between the terrorists in Mumbai and their handlers in Pakistan had to come from foreign agencies. States share intelligence in absolute self interest and not for considerations of ethics, morality or law. Imagine, if foreigners had not been the victims of 26/11 carnage, the requisite information in all probability have remained hidden from Indian authorities. Selective concealment is an acceptable reality of the Intelligence world. At no stage in the past India’s collaborating partners had disclosed to India anything about Pakistan’s ongoing nuclear weapon development programme and China’s stellar role in it when it was widely known that this programme directly targetted India.

The solution lies in having an in-house research and development capability with an extremely high powered technical staff, second to none, that can work on dedicated technical requirements of the Intelligence. It calls for a very high level of funding; something which is not very kindly looked upon by the fund managers of the country. The alternative is to tie up with governmental and non governmental hi-tech institutions to look for answers.

The key to the highest grade of Intelligence is held by human sources to raise whom a great deal of focussed attention, ingenuity, daredevilry and deep pockets are necessary. It is not a job of a run of the mill kind which can be performed by anyone. A successful operator, capable of recruiting high net worth human agents, has to belong to a rare breed. Identifying such potentially gifted operators and enrolling these into Intelligence then becomes a matter of incentives and competitive remunerations.

This area has been a long standing weakness of Indian Intelligence.
The problem dates back to the dawn of Indian Independence when many of the legacies of the British colonial rule were uncritically accepted and passed on down the line. The British had created a steel framework to rule the country and a police system which, among other things, kept watch on nascent political trends. The steel frame attracted gifted individuals, scholars and thinkers because of the extraordinarily high compensation package. The prime tool made available to the police was repression. There was no comparable incentive for a bright Indian to join its ranks, except that of getting employed. The steel frame had lorded over British India. The legacies continued after the British left. Even today the rule exists that ensures that no member of any other service can overtake his IAS colleague of the same seniority in emoluments or rank even if he is a genius. Then why should the Indian Intelligence attract the best when it is required to exist at an inferior level? In point of fact it does not. The results that get produced, therefore, are matching the caliber that is to be found in such establishments today.

This problem can be fixed only by the political managers of the country. India now finds itself in a very complex national security environment, requiring intelligence to become the first line of defence. Men who work in it must have the capacity to develop the highest levels of professional values and solid leadership qualities.

Centuries ago a Chinese sage, Sun Tzu, admonished: “Nothing should be as favourably regarded as Intelligence; nothing should be as generously regarded as Intelligence; nothing should be as confidential as the work of Intelligence”. To produce Intelligence of this order, service in Intelligence must be made as attractive as the British had made their premier colonial service in India. Intelligence organizations of other countries run their establishments on this paradigm. They often are the best paid organizations in their own country. The CIA is reputed to attract the highest number of PhDs from the best schools into its ranks, as compared to other US organizations. The terms and conditions of service, apart from the opportunities of work, serve as a magnet to pull the talent of supreme quality among whom will be engineers, management specialists, scholars, bankers, scientists, economists, sociologists and academics. In India, unfortunately, it is only the second grade that thinks of gravitating towards Intelligence. In recent times, even this category is not offering to look at Intelligence as a career. A revolving door policy as in the US should also not be ruled out to draw in expertise and eminence.

Another negative factor is that Intelligence in India has no locus in law, especially for those who work in foreign Intelligence. India’s Intelligence agencies have not been created by Acts of the Parliament. The entire range of foreign operations is covered by just executive instructions. An instruction to operate in a foreign country ipso facto implies a requirement to break the local laws but no legal authority exists for issuing such instructions or indemnifying the would be violator under the laws of the home country. This is a very serious lacuna which does not seem to have caught the attention of anyone in authority. As the law stands today all those who issue such executive instructions and those who carry out these instructions in a foreign country to spy and steal secrets can be held accountable under the Indian laws. Foreign Intelligence is the only organization directed by the Govt. to violate the local laws of the country of operation but the Govt. does so without enjoying any legal authority to do so. This state of affairs is reflective of the apathy in which Intelligence is held in India.

Analysis comes in the picture to make a sense from collected raw intelligence in juxta position with publicly available data. It interprets the pooled information and comes up with likely scenarios of what may happen. This exercise has to be meaningful because Government’s policy decisions could be based on them. In fast moving contexts like an ongoing terrorist engagement, speed of the analysis becomes a key determinant to catch the action. However, the process as it takes place has serious flaws.

These arise from a mistaken apprehension that intelligence will seek to overtake the role of policy making or even replace it. In fact intelligence has no commanding part in the making of policy. On the other hand the policy maker has to set the agenda for intelligence to work on so that intelligence becomes custom produced. However, intelligence support to policy makers becomes more meaningful if it is allowed participation in policy debates, told about gaps in knowledge and encouraged to disclose constraints on intelligence capabilities to close these gaps, and focus its analysis on policy issues and options under scrutiny. If such opportunities are missing, intelligence works in the dark, benefiting no one.

Years ago in an article by me the role of the analyst was described in the following words: “A good intelligence analyst is an asset to the national security apparatus. In the intelligence organizations in India, analysts work for several years at the same desk and are therefore able to develop a much better insight and expertise in their fields than those serving other wings of the Government. Although not infallible, sound analysis can often point to the likely course of events. It takes into account all the information available, secret or published, mentions what remains unknown if it is relevant to the issue under study, describes the reality of the facts stated, indicating guardedly of how they were obtained, and transparently and cogently explains the logic of the conclusions and estimates it projects. The analyst’s expertise serves as the backdrop to the inferences drawn; the deeper his experience, the more value he can get out of the data assembled to make his submissions of likely scenarios of the future. When the analyst is tasked in the context of national security by the policy maker, his study is lifted out of the academic realm and becomes a basis for choosing a course of policy”.

Indian Intelligence can boast of having in its ranks many excellent analysts with deep expertise and insights but it is not certain if full use has been made of them. There is hardly any culture in the country requiring policy papers to be prepared on national security issues, with participation from intelligence, diplomats, military specialists, scientists etc., detailing likely scenarios and examining the pro and con of each. Kargil and Mumbai 26/11 demonstrated the pitfalls of absence of coordinated analysis. Where coordination is called for between the centre and the states to deal with an internal security problem in a cohesive manner, the Indian Constitution can become sometimes the stumbling block as powers stand delegated to the states some of whom may disagree with the Centre’s approach. In the face of such differences the tasks of Intelligence become even more difficult. Dealing with Naxalism is an issue which proves this assumption.

The quality of Indian Intelligence analysis has been applauded by foreign intelligence partners. Senator Claiborne Pell, former Chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, is on record, stating that Indian analysis of developments in Afghanistan in the late 1980s was the only accurate indication available to the West, of what was happening there.

In the Indian system the operations officer and the analyst often double up for each other. In small outfits this may not be a serious handicap but as organizations grow larger, the two streams of intelligence should have their own dedicated cadres for best results.

Counter intelligence prime functions are identifying operations and agents of foreign intelligence organizations, and protecting the secrets of the State from penetration through use of human agents and technical means like bugs, monitoring, surveillance from space, interception of communication channels etc. Lack of national awareness generally for the needs of security makes the task of counter intelligence more difficult. Dangers arise equally from hostile and friendly agencies, driven by the operational necessity of discovering protected information.

Results from counter intelligence have been a mixed bag of successes and shame. Over the years counter intelligence has been able to unmask several of the Indian agents of all the major intelligence organization of the world. The shame lies in the fact that it could not prevent foreign penetration even into their senior ranks. Actual truth may be more hurting. There is a general belief in the country that the influence of foreign intelligence organizations has reached deep into the civil society. Suspicion was cast once even on a Prime Minister. Due to various reasons exposures of highly placed Indian moles has always proved to be a daunting task.

The field of counter intelligence has exponentially grown with the advent of international terrorism. This phenomenon poses a multidimensional threat of mass destruction through acquisition of a nuclear device, mass disruption of communication systems through cyber attacks, ideological brain washing through selective interpretations of religious doctrines, and jehadi military style attacks at random on people and key sites. Countering such terrorism has to be a composite exercise requiring participation, apart from intelligence, of other organs of the state such as armed forces, state police, crisis management groups, paramilitary directorates and science and technical communities among others. Countering ideological indoctrination in a sustained manner is perhaps yet to kick start in the country. It is not that the dangers are not realized but extraneous factors like vote bank politics relegate the issue to the lowest priority.

Since terrorist organizations which work on the cell system are extremely difficult to penetrate, good preventive intelligence may not be easily forth coming, despite the best efforts of the intelligence agencies. Because of large numbers of what can constitute a target it may not also be possible to provide effective perimeter security to every single target. If terror attacks like Mumbai 26/11 continue, sooner or later the authorities will have to decide and declare the policy steps which should compel their sponsors to weigh the costs involved. A new counter terrorism architecture in the country, aiming at better analysis, coordination and prevention, can at best remain a good defensive exercise but the need of the hour may turn out to be offensive rather than defensive tactics.

In offensive counter terrorism, the intelligence and armed forces will have distinctive and definitive roles. They may have to work together on the lines of the CIA and US military command that have been jointly handling Iraq and Afghanistan.

Nations are no longer squeamish about employment of covert techniques though specific operations may continue to be shrouded by the mystique of deniability. Nations seem willing to use any tool of statecraft to strengthen national security though the arm chair liberal or the abstract human rights activist may raise objection on grounds of ethics and morality. The Indian State in the past was not hesitant in using such instruments. This is widely known. But one cannot switch to covert actions overnight. Long preparations are necessary. If “all options” are being kept open to deal with the vicious terrorist threat from across the borders, it will be proper to give a green signal to the intelligence now to make its covert plans. Pakistan is proving to be an enduring threat. A redefinition of national interests will bring out that India needs to move out of its self created soft image and to entrust the Intelligence with a new range of responsibilities to become more secure.

Even otherwise Intelligence needs to develop new perspectives as globalization advances, defining a new permissiveness in political environment, creating opportunities for newer forms of economic penetration and triggering fast technological changes which render borders meaningless. After the demise of the Soviet Union the World has been left unipolar but the equation of balance of power remains far from settled. In Asia, the rivalry between three rising entities, China, Japan and India, each of whom will be competitively looking for new markets and new sources of resources, can become acute. The national security architecture worldwide remains shifting in a kaleidoscopic pattern, recreating all the time, newer axes of conflict and conciliation. Add to them the hunger for land and water, symbolized by refugee flows and mass migrations, and differing international concerns for climatic changes and ecology. Correct analysis and assessment of trends over a vast spectrum has become a national necessity to keep the country’s interests safe and secure. Knowledge now is the new coefficient of power and Indian Intelligence must keep step with such knowledge.

The current systems are unlikely to match the challenges that have emerged. Drastic reforms are necessary to unshackle Intelligence from its rigid bureaucratic mould and to invest it with a dynamism and innovative spirit which should be the hallmark of an unconventional organization. The very first step of reform should begin by giving Indian Intelligence the backing of legislative enactments. The laws should provide a degree of autonomy which frees intelligence from all bureaucratic restraints and controls relating to financial management, administrative functions, pay scales, recruitment, posting and promotions, hire and fire policies and enforcement of discipline. The laws should spell out the charter and authorize the Central Government to fix broad targets within the charter. This will prevent misuse of the institutions by those in authority. The laws should hold intelligence accountable to the Cabinet or its committee for security but also create a parliamentary committee for oversight. Detailed rules can be worked out to determine the parameters of oversight and areas of intelligence work over which it will be exercised, in consultation with the parliament. The laws should give the right to the Govt. to authorize any kind of covert action and keep all such activities outside the ambit of oversight. The process of oversight and accountability can be expected to keep intelligence on its toes. However, even after such reforms, errors due to human frailties and intellectual stubbornness will not all disappear but their numbers can be expected to be far less.

There is a new area of activity which Intelligence must consider if it has not already done so. Outsourcing which globalization has promoted has a good potential for intelligence work. The Japanese corporate world and intelligence have cooperated with each other over the past several years with both reaping good dividends out of such collaboration. The US is believed to have taken major steps in this direction. According to one estimate the US Intelligence community invests 70% of its budget on its joint ventures with American Industrial Complex. The Indian corporations are also traversing the multinational route. One may expect overtures to them will be rewarding to intelligence.

One last word. Is there any way that can measure the depth of devotion and commitment of Intelligence to the national cause? The following anecdote can be a revealing guide. At the height of Afghan resistance to Soviet Union in 1989, the situation in Kabul became so dangerous that the US, British and other Western countries withdrew their Ambassadors and staff from the country. Our foreign office and Ambassador wanted to follow suit, Intelligence included. Intelligence refused. While others came back to Delhi, Intelligence remained at Kabul to continue to fly the Indian flag over the Embassy in Kabul.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Pranay »

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/techn ... ml?_r=1&hp

Vast Spy System Loots Computers in 103 Countries...
Their sleuthing opened a window into a broader operation that, in less than two years, has infiltrated at least 1,295 computers in 103 countries, including many belonging to embassies, foreign ministries and other government offices, as well as the Dalai Lama’s Tibetan exile centers in India, Brussels, London and New York.

The researchers, who have a record of detecting computer espionage, said they believed that in addition to the spying on the Dalai Lama, the system, which they called GhostNet, was focused on the governments of South Asian and Southeast Asian countries.
Still going strong, the operation continues to invade and monitor more than a dozen new computers a week, the researchers said in their report, “Tracking ‘GhostNet’: Investigating a Cyber Espionage Network.” They said they had found no evidence that United States government offices had been infiltrated, although a NATO computer was monitored by the spies for half a day and computers of the Indian Embassy in Washington were infiltrated.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

The Indian State in the past was not hesitant in using such instruments. This is widely known. But one cannot switch to covert actions overnight. Long preparations are necessary. If “all options” are being kept open to deal with the vicious terrorist threat from across the borders, it will be proper to give a green signal to the intelligence now to make its covert plans.
IMHO, it is not a co-incidence that virtually everyone related to intelligence in India ( babus, netas, spooks etc) are talking about the lost covert capabilities and the need for one which will take some time to build.

I would assume that a covert action strategy planning/implementation is taking place and the wheel has been set into motion in some dark corners in Lodhi road.

There cannot be so much smoke(all this non stop talk of covert capabilities) without fire (unless the related people are so frustrated that they are giving their wish lists in articles)
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Kati »

A sensational news has been reported by 'Bartaman' the second largest bengali
daily based on the central home ministry's joint director Naveen Verma's disclosure.

In North Bengal, especially near Darjeeling and Siliguri, five buddhist pagodas have
sprung up near IA's bases. These pagodas are financed and supported by the PRC
with the sole purpose of monitoring India Army's movements and the bases. MHA is
upset with the left ruled state govt for not doing enough to prevent setting up of
the pagodas.

Details here:
http://www.bartamanpatrika.com/

Surprisingly, national english media hasn't picked up this case yet.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by derkonig »

Who uses these pagodas? Monks or people masquerading to be monks/buddhists?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Kati »

derkonig wrote:Who uses these pagodas? Monks or people masquerading to be monks/buddhists?
According to the above report, in Darjeeling district, near the border areas, there are
fifteen buddhist pagodas/temples, of which seven are run by tibetans. Of these seven four are highly questionable. These four were set up very quietly, without apparent local admin's authorizations. These four are apparently funded by the chinese authorities. Incriminating
documents revealing financial dealings of these pagodas with dubious 'tibetan trusts' backed
by chinese authorities have been founds by the central intel agencies as well as MI. The fifth
such pagoda is in Jalpaiguri district. These pagodas have acquired acres of land without
local govt's authorization, without land conversion or mutation. How they have set up
high structures overlooking some sensitive passes and/or IA bases is a mystery. Sensing the seriousness of the issue, the MHA called a meeting in early February to discuss the matter
in details. The state govt's chief sec. was informed in details. Central govt chastised the state police/intel set-up for overlooking the matter. GoI is giving top priority to safeguard
the border with China, and the situation came to notice while deploying ITBP in the area.
As such tibetans are sympathetic to India and have high regards. But if there are tibetan agents working for the chinese govt then it becomes a nightmare.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anantz »

Well most of the monasteries in Siliguri is located near the Salugara locality of Siliguri, which falls in Jalpaiguri district. The monasteries are located there, because it is the only place in Siliguri which has significant buddhist/Gorkha/Tibetan population. It also happens that Salugara has the Army Aviation base as well as other Army field bases such as that for EME and Artillery. I do not see any reason, why the monastery would be built anywhere else, where there aren't significant Buddhist population.

Also there aren't any monasteries over looking any passes in West Bengal. All the passes are located in Sikkim, and there, no permanent public structure is allowed to be built near the border areas. Also, people and Govt in Sikkim are not that friendly with tibetans and/or tibetan funded monasteries.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anantz »

Also, other prominent Tibetan monasteries located in Darjeeling are, one in Ghoom, near Darjeeling which is also very close to Jalapahar military base, and another one in Kalimpong which falls right on the premises of the HQ of 27th Mountain Div. But all these monasteries have existed for more than 4 decades now. Assuming some foul play at this stage seems quite unlikely. That is if the paper is talking about these monasteries in particular. If any other are involved, if the exact details of the monasteries under suspicion are known, it would help in clearing the doubts.
Philip
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Philip »

Massive global Chinese computer hacking theough "ghostNet".Indian embassies and establishments also hit.This sensational act of espionage and cyberwarfare by China against the global community,has even prompted the British to say that they are not sure if they can stop a Chinese cyberattack in the future that would paralyse Britain.The webmasters should check whether BR ahs also been subject to attack by "Ghost Net".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 996253.ece
Chinese hackers ‘using ghost network to control embassy computers’
(James Lauritz/Digital Vision)
China's cyber-hacking operations are becoming increasingly sophisticated

Mike Harvey, Technology Correspondent
Read the research paper in full | Sunday Times: spy chiefs fear Chinese attack

A spy network believed to have been controlled from China has hacked into classified documents on government and private computers in 103 countries, according to internet researchers. The spy system, dubbed GhostNet, is alleged to have compromised 1,295 machines at Nato and foreign ministries, embassies, banks and news organisations across the world, as well as computers used by the Dalai Lama and Tibetan exiles.

The work of Information Warfare Monitor (IWM) investigators focused initially on allegations of Chinese cyber-espionage against the Tibetan exile community, but led to a much wider network of compromised machines. IWM said that, while China appeared to be the main source of the network, it had not been able conclusively to identify the hackers. The IWM is composed of researchers from an Ottawa-based think-tank, SecDev Group, and the Munk Centre for International Studies at the University of Toronto.

They found that the foreign ministries of Iran, Bangladesh, Latvia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Brunei, Barbados and Bhutan had been spied on remotely, and the embassies of India, South Korea, Indonesia, Romania, Cyprus, Malta, Thailand, Taiwan, Portugal, Germany and Pakistan hacked.

COMMENT: Computer hacking is cheap and effective
Spy chiefs fear Chinese cyber attack
Student denies hacking into Palin's e-mail

The operation is thought to be the most extensive yet uncovered in the political world and is estimated to be invading more than a dozen new computers a week. Other infected computers were found at the accountancy firm Deloitte & Touche in New York.

The IWM report said: “GhostNet represents a network of compromised computers in high-value political, economic and media locations in numerous countries worldwide. These organisations are almost certainly oblivious to the compromised situation in which they find themselves. The computers of diplomats, military attachés, private assistants, secretaries to prime ministers, journalists and others are under the concealed control of unknown assailant(s).

“In Dharamsala [the headquarters of the Tibetan government in exile] and elsewhere, we have witnessed machines being profiled and sensitive documents being removed. Almost certainly, documents are being removed without the targets’ knowledge, key-strokes logged, web cameras are being silently triggered and audio inputs surreptitiously activated.”

Chinese hackers are thought to have targeted Western networks repeatedly. Computers at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and other Whitehall departments were attacked from China in 2007. In the same year, Jonathan Evans, the MI5 Director-General, alerted 300 British businesses that they were under Chinese cyber-attack.

British intelligence chiefs have warned recently that China may have gained the capability effectively to shut down Britain by crippling its telecoms and utilities. Equipment installed by Huawei, the Chinese telecoms giant, in BT’s new communications network could be used to halt critical services such as power, food and water supplies, they said.

The Chinese Embassy in London said that there was no evidence to back up the claim that the Chinese Government was behind GhostNet and alleged that the report had been “commissioned by the Tibetan government in exile”.

Liu Weimin, a spokesman, said: “I will not be surprised if this report is just another case of their recent media and propaganda campaign. In China, it is against the law to hack into the computers of others, and we are victims of such cyber-attack. It is a global challenge that requires global cooperation. China is an active participant in such cooperation in the world.”

Once the hackers had infiltrated the systems, they gained control using malware – software installed on the compromised computers – and sent and received data from them, the researchers said. “The GhostNet system directs infected computers to download a Trojan known as Ghost Rat that allows attackers to gain complete, real-time control,” IWM said. “These instances of Ghost Rat are consistently controlled from commercial internet access accounts located on the island of Hainan, in the People’s Republic of China.”

Hainan is home to the Lingshui signals intelligence facility and the Third Technical Department of the People’s Liberation Army, IWM said.

Greg Walton, editor of IWM, said: “Regardless of who or what is ultimately in control of GhostNet, it is the capabilities of exploitation, and the strategic intelligence that can be harvested from it, which matters most. Indeed, although the Achilles’ heel of the GhostNet system allowed us to monitor and document its far-reaching network of infiltration, we can safely hypothesise that it is neither the first nor the only one of its kind.”
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Avinash R »

^Script kiddies are being called hackers. :rotfl:

If anyone wants the report regarding the attacks Javee has posted the link.
http://documents.scribd.com/docs/1jiyoq ... udh2s7.pdf

A RAT(remote administration tool) was used to get control of the computers. And since none of the security softwares flagged this as malware most likely it was crypted.

These are available for prices starting at $10 and the price increases for more sophisicated versions.

Some sites even give them away for free for their VIP members.

The report talks about cause of infection is through emails but there are other ways of infecting which can be used like "drive by downloads" i.e. when you visit a site made to order to spread such infections, the trojan download itself to you comp, then calls back it's master(server) and the criminal can takeover your computer. He can do anything with the computer that any normal user sitting in front can do, from copying your files to stealing your passwords.

Another way of getting infected is using bootlegged copies of softwares. There are literally thousands of sites/forums which give away softwares which cost money for free. You dont need to pay anything to such sites. Just register on their site and you can access a huge cache of software from anti-virus softwares to photo editing softwares.

And since these people have not descended from heaven they also have vested interests in such criminal enterprise.

They will tell you that they are doing "this for fun", "help people who cant afford the softwares" and other such fairy tales while in reality they attach their trojans to such softwares and then make them available for download. As soon as you download and install such software your comp can be controlled by the remote master (server).

They can even "lease" out your computer to other criminals who can use it for spending spam or even for DDoS attacks on other sites.

The only thing surprising in the "ghost network" is the scale of the operation and choice of targets.

It's not just not any computer but specific high value targets which have been attacked and knowing previous involvement of chinese govt in such activities it's easy to guess who funded and gave support to them.

And as usual these people will not be punished even after evidence is presented like it has happened in the past.

And all those computers running a particular operating system will "always" remain vulnerable to these types of attacks.

The problem will not be solved even if the best anti-virus,anti-spyware softwares have been installed on such OS.

Today "tools" are available which have been specifically made to disable such security software on that particular OS.

It's only a matter of time before we see more such attacks.

The solution lies in moving the system to more secure operating system and not in whining as is happening the china mil thread. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 77#p644177

And if anyone wants to learn some lessons from the mistakes of others and wants to change to a more secure OS, register here and get an ubuntu cd shipped to your home. https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ or download it from their site.

Also if you want to find the right distro of linux for your work then check http://distrowatch.com/ site , research a little about the specific distro using http://lxer.com/ which has many reviews and info regarding various distros and then make a decision and install linux.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

Avinash R wrote:^Script kiddies are being called hackers. :rotfl:

If anyone wants the report regarding the attacks Javee has posted the link.
http://documents.scribd.com/docs/1jiyoq ... udh2s7.pdf
......
Script kiddies!
These Chinese script kiddies seem to be capable of breaking into mail servers and cause all sorts of problems. Laugh at them now and then wait till they get hold of your nuke secrets from right under your nose. Remember 1962 when Hindi Chini were bhai bhai.

And how on earth will moving to a Linux distro make you safer?
Linux of much more difficult to use and maintain than a typical Windows machine. If a user cannot even understand how to handle the OS they use, how will they make it more secure. Linux is more secure was a myth created by the open source Fanboys. A system is only as secure as an admin or a user is capable of making it. Every user is not a computer geek, if half of your time is used in just maintaining your system then you can forget about productivity.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Kati »

Anantz wrote:Also, other prominent Tibetan monasteries located in Darjeeling are, one in Ghoom, near Darjeeling which is also very close to Jalapahar military base, and another one in Kalimpong which falls right on the premises of the HQ of 27th Mountain Div. But all these monasteries have existed for more than 4 decades now. Assuming some foul play at this stage seems quite unlikely. That is if the paper is talking about these monasteries in particular. If any other are involved, if the exact details of the monasteries under suspicion are known, it would help in clearing the doubts.

As per the 'Bartaman' report-

1. The five pagodas/monasteries in question did come up only in the last few years.
Whereas the other established pagodas have been here for decades. Central intel
agencies suspect that the owners of these new pagodas/monasteries are probably
nonindians.

2. The five pagodas/monasteries are -
(i) Kargaeu Thaak Choling monastery at Kalimpong
(ii) Druk Saangnaag Choling monastery in Darjeeling
(iii) Boka Naagthong Choling monastery in Darjeeling
(iv) Kalu Rimuchi monastery in Darjeeling
(v) Saambala Charitable Trust monastery at Daamding, under Maalbazar P.S. in
Jalpaiguri district.

3. The last one above has raised a lot of heckles since it has been built very quick,
with a 72 ft high structure. Once completed, suspected chinese agents can monitor
IA movement from atop the structure.

4. Each of these new monasteries have acquired a couple of acres of land apparently
illegally, without local admin's authorization, no mutation has been done for land
transfer. Moreover, the huge financial dealing of these entities with shadowy chinese
entities have made the MI sit-up and take notice.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

Kati wrote:
Anantz wrote:Also, other prominent Tibetan monasteries located in Darjeeling are, one in Ghoom, near Darjeeling which is also very close to Jalapahar military base, and another one in Kalimpong which falls right on the premises of the HQ of 27th Mountain Div. But all these monasteries have existed for more than 4 decades now. Assuming some foul play at this stage seems quite unlikely. That is if the paper is talking about these monasteries in particular. If any other are involved, if the exact details of the monasteries under suspicion are known, it would help in clearing the doubts.

As per the 'Bartaman' report-

1. The five pagodas/monasteries in question did come up only in the last few years.
Whereas the other established pagodas have been here for decades. Central intel
agencies suspect that the owners of these new pagodas/monasteries are probably
nonindians.

2. The five pagodas/monasteries are -
(i) Kargaeu Thaak Choling monastery at Kalimpong
(ii) Druk Saangnaag Choling monastery in Darjeeling
(iii) Boka Naagthong Choling monastery in Darjeeling
(iv) Kalu Rimuchi monastery in Darjeeling
(v) Saambala Charitable Trust monastery at Daamding, under Maalbazar P.S. in
Jalpaiguri district.

3. The last one above has raised a lot of heckles since it has been built very quick,
with a 72 ft high structure. Once completed, suspected chinese agents can monitor
IA movement from atop the structure.

4. Each of these new monasteries have acquired a couple of acres of land apparently
illegally, without local admin's authorization, no mutation has been done for land
transfer. Moreover, the huge financial dealing of these entities with shadowy chinese
entities have made the MI sit-up and take notice.
It's easy to get rid of these. Just spread the rumor amongst the Gurkhas in Darjeeling that the Pagodas are being used to spy on them. In a few hours all the chinese agents there will be headless and the Gurkhas will be drinking their old monk rum in the cool shade of Pagodas.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Avinash R »

DELETED
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

DELETED
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by KiranM »

sum wrote:Thanks for the info, guys...

Didn't know that IB is in charge of "de-bugging" etc...I always thought that the technical wing of RAW takes care of all that.
Not just for bug swatting, also for internal surveillance of embassy staff. Domestic helps, small time workers, etc are usually from host country. Ripe assets to 'infiltrate'. Requires good Counter Espionage and investigative skills.

Of course, other nations' get their external intel agencies to do this job. Guess for India, role of IB, in this regards, is mandated and institutionalized.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Mandeep »

The IB being the specialised agency for security and counter-intelligence within the country provides the same services for Indian missions abroad. Though the agency has been clamouring for a long time to take on the role of counter-terrorism abroad this has been denied to them till now by the GOI.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Avinash R »

DELETED
Avinash R
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Avinash R »

MEA computers hacked, but official says vital data not lost

chinese sript kiddies and their online fans will be saddened to hear this.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

Avinash, not that i disagree with you but do you honestly expect GoI to admit it lost sensitive data even if it occurs?

This is the same GoI which brushed aside HDDs filled with sensitive info(saying nothing important was present) related to the Army HQ/DRDO being found in open market due to improper erasing of data before selling the HDDs as junk...
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Avinash R »

^sum the most imp target for the "ghost net" was the tibetan govt in exile. They were the one who lost data and whose computers were compromised. Regarding indian targets most were embassies in other countries and no sensitive info most likely will be placed in computers which are prime targets of theft by the intel agencies of the host countries. And reg improper disposal of hdd that was in the past when deleting was thought to be enough to erase data, in those days even some british banks shipped their hdd as scrap to nigeria only to find their data was still present on them. Now hdd are repeatedly written by random sets of 1 and 0's to destroy the data. Not likely that such incidents will be repeated.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anantz »

AmitR wrote: It's easy to get rid of these. Just spread the rumor amongst the Gurkhas in Darjeeling that the Pagodas are being used to spy on them. In a few hours all the chinese agents there will be headless and the Gurkhas will be drinking their old monk rum in the cool shade of Pagodas.
That's not that difficult though, the locals do have quite a bit of mistrust with the Tibetans there. Especially becoz, even though the Tibetans are suppose to be refugees, they seem to enjoy much better lifestyle than the locals thanks to the free flow of foreign funds. Also, the Tibetans enjoy a lot of goodies from the Govt as well which the locals do not get. Hence, there is a lot of mistrust and suspicion upon the Tibetans there.

One more thing I would like to add is about "Druk Saangnaag Choling monastery in Darjeeling", 'Druk' means it belongs to Bhutan, hence it cannot be a Tibetan run monastery, it has to be a Bhutanese monastery.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

Is the flame baiting necessary?

AmitR is an Indian as any of us(have checked his AI pics etc)....why the need to call him a Paki? (the worst form of insult there is!!!).
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Avinash R »

^Sorry about that if you can confirm he is an Indian national. The way he started claiming the attack was some kind of great job by chinese and kept taunting about 1962, most pakis on other forums do so, led me to think he is pakistani. And BTW the comments by him on linux being some fanboy OS are still unwarranted. His comments that linux needs to be constantly maintained, is not productive are all lies. check this newsreport. If the french police can be productive, save money and most imp be safe while using an linux OS and open source softwares why cant others too shift to it.
French coppers save a few pennies with open source
13 March 2009

A report on the Open Source Observatory and Repository Europe (OSOR.EU) web site, says that, according to Lieutenant-Colonel Xavier Guimard, the French Gendarmerie's gradual migration to a complete open source desktop and web applications has saved millions of euros. The Lieutenant-Colonel, says "This year the IT budget will be reduced by 70 percent. This will not affect our IT systems."

The French national police force, the Gendarmerie Nationale, began their migration away from Microsoft software when in 2005 it replaced Microsoft Office with OpenOffice, across the entire force. On the 2006 release of Windows Vista the decision was made to phase out Microsoft software altogether.

As Guimard told the attendees at the annual conference organised by NOiV, the Dutch national resource centre on open source and open standards, the Gendarmerie was buying between 12,000 and 15,000 Microsoft licences a year. In 2005 only 27 licences were purchased. Guimard estimates that since 2004 the Gendarmerie has saved 50 million euros through using free and open source software. The Gendarmerie maintains around 90,000 desktops serving a 105,000 strong work force.

The move to open source was originally prompted by one of the Gendarmerie's accountants who took offence at the idea of having to purchase new Microsoft licences. He tried OpenOffice and liked it. When Microsoft then started to lobby the Gendarmerie over the purchase of new software the accountant showed OpenOffice to the force's General Manager.

Guimard says all new PC's purchased now run Ubuntu with Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice and that the transition from Windows XP has been easy, with little training required. He said "Moving from Microsoft XP to Vista would not have brought us many advantages and Microsoft said it would require training of users. Moving from XP to Ubuntu, however, proved very easy. The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games are not our priority."
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

Hey guys can you take the software issues to the right thread in the Tech Forum? Thanks for bringing up an issue that has intel ramifications.

So no more posts on that matter here.

ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

Anantz wrote:
AmitR wrote: It's easy to get rid of these. Just spread the rumor amongst the Gurkhas in Darjeeling that the Pagodas are being used to spy on them. In a few hours all the chinese agents there will be headless and the Gurkhas will be drinking their old monk rum in the cool shade of Pagodas.
That's not that difficult though, the locals do have quite a bit of mistrust with the Tibetans there. Especially becoz, even though the Tibetans are suppose to be refugees, they seem to enjoy much better lifestyle than the locals thanks to the free flow of foreign funds. Also, the Tibetans enjoy a lot of goodies from the Govt as well which the locals do not get. Hence, there is a lot of mistrust and suspicion upon the Tibetans there.

One more thing I would like to add is about "Druk Saangnaag Choling monastery in Darjeeling", 'Druk' means it belongs to Bhutan, hence it cannot be a Tibetan run monastery, it has to be a Bhutanese monastery.
Indian agencies also use Tibetans to spy on the Chinese border and the TAR region. I think it was the 22 battalion that was formed especially for this purpose and is still being used. Tibetans do not get much assistance from the Indian govt. per se (except for the permission to stay in India) but they do have a vast western buddhist network from which they get a lot of assistance and hence live a life of much better standard than the local population. It is quite possible that the monasteries are actually being used by the western intel agencies to spy on the Chinese. China border is not really very far from this area.

Druk yes that sounds more like Bhutanese they have alcohol by that name.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

Varun baba saved by IB
LUCKNOW: Dreaded gangster Chhota Shakeel had ordered the elimination of Varun Gandhi the day he was to surrender at a Pilibhit court.

The Intelligence Bureau had intercepted a telephonic communication on March 21 from the Karachi-based don for this 'special assignment' to his key shooter Rashid Malbari. The IB had alerted the UP home department on March 22, after which Varun’s 'on-way' security was doubled.

Malbari, alias Double, was arrested in a joint operation of the IB and Karnataka's Department of Criminal Intelligence Bureau in Mangalore on March 27 while he was preparing to move to Pilibhit via Delhi.


The 38-year-old executioner of 'D-Company' had a red corner notice of Interpol against him and intelligence sources said he had confessed his plans to assassinate Varun. His arrest came after cops had caught three other men linked to the plot — Sayaf T A, Mohammad Hasim and Sahib Ibrahim. Cops found two Colt pistols, several credit cards and 11 mobile phones on Malbari.

Malbari came into prominence when he shot at and injured Chhota Rajan in Bangkok in September 2000 and in 2004 killed Rajan's second-in-command Balu Dokre in Malaysia. He had been reported missing from Mumbai police records for the last 13 years and had sneaked into India nine months ago through Nepal, said intelligence officers.

The sources said the first communication was intercepted around March 15 and the final on March 21. The plan was to kill Varun for his hate speeches, to restore 'confidence in Indian Muslims' and 'disturb' Lok Sabha elections in Uttar Pradesh.

As a result of IB's tip-off, the state home department ordered more than a dozen cops headed by a DSP and two SIs to sandwich Varun's vehicle as soon as it left Delhi for Pilibhit on March 28.

Varun had informed Pilibhit DM that he would be leaving for Pilibhit from New Delhi at 6am on March 28. Unaware of the threat, Varun was anticipating his arrest.

In order to dodge the police, he started at 3.30am. As the police escort had been placed on alert, it followed him in two vehicles. Near Rampur around 8.30am, the carcade halted and Varun slipped into a waiting black Scorpio of one of his friends. The DSP escorting Varun informed the officials that they had lost him.

Panic buttons were pressed from Lucknow and SPs of all surrounding districts were alerted. Finally, the police traced the vehicle in Sitarganj. Mangalore police revealed Malbari's arrest on March 29, but the story put out was that he had planned to kidnap a senior politician. IB sources said, ever since the Shakeel communication, calls to three SIM numbers were being monitored and this eventually led to tracking Malbari.

This was the original news report when the pigs were picked up two days back. It didnt mention who was the target:
Link

D-shooter Malbari in police net

By: J Dey & Imran Gowhar
Bangalore:

He and his gang were plotting to attack politicians and disrupt elections

Rashid Malbari, key shooter of the Dawood Ibrahim and Chota Shakeel gang was arrested close to Ullal, a town near Mangalore, by the Department of Criminal Intelligence Bureau (DCIB) sleuths led by officer Venkatesh Prasanna.

According to the DCIB officials, the Intelligence Bureau had tipped them about Malbari, who had been contracted by a man named Ismail to gun down a local politician in Kasargod, Kerala. It was in a bungalow on the outskirts of Ullal that Malbari was finally arrested.

Malbari's arrested associates are Ibrahim Kapu, Saibu, Yasin and Sohail, all known to be Dawood gang members.
The police have seized two pistols, credit cards mobile phones and Rs 19,000 cash from them.

'Special assignment'
The Intelligence Bureau reportedly stumbled upon the fact that Malbari was heading to India on a 'special assignment' after overhearing a telephonic conversation. They kept a close watch on the movements of Malbari and his associates before nabbing them.

Preliminary investigations revealed that Malabri was coordinating attempts to disrupt the general elections by extortion, kidnapping and even assassinating prominent political leaders in the fray.
Who is Malbari?
Rashid Malbari launched himself into the upper echelons of the Mumbai underworld in September 2000, when he opened fire on rival gangster Rajendra Nikalje alias Chhota Rajan in Bangkok, injuring him seriously. Four years later, Malbari killed Rajan's second-in-command Balu Dokre in Malaysia. Malbari is also believed to have been assigned the task of eliminating encounter specialists Vijay Salaskar and Daya Nayak .

Rashid Malbari became active in Mumbai after Raja Gore, a frontline Chhota Rajan shooter, killed Malbari's elder brother Ismail outside Vikhroli Court in 2007. Shortly after, Malbari fled the country and began operating from Karachi and Bangkok after the Crime Branch began baying for his blood.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anantz »

AmitR wrote:
Indian agencies also use Tibetans to spy on the Chinese border and the TAR region. I think it was the 22 battalion that was formed especially for this purpose and is still being used. Tibetans do not get much assistance from the Indian govt. per se (except for the permission to stay in India) but they do have a vast western buddhist network from which they get a lot of assistance and hence live a life of much better standard than the local population. It is quite possible that the monasteries are actually being used by the western intel agencies to spy on the Chinese. China border is not really very far from this area.
Druk yes that sounds more like Bhutanese they have alcohol by that name.
Well, the Tibetans are included as Scheduled Tribes in India, so most of their kith and kins turn up as Civil service officers in West Bengal and Sikkim, that is why they are quite resented both in Sikkim and Bengal, as they eat into the facilities available to the indigenous Bhutia and Lepcha Tribals! Same thing with education reservations and all. Trust me, I am from that place.

As for spying, I doubt anyone can spy on the Chinese sitting in Darjeeling! It is much far away from the border, and even the border is so heavily militarized that you can hardly enter even 20 kms from the border. If you have ever been to Gangtok u will know, about 5 kms from Gangtok on way to the border, no civillians are allowed to proceed except for the indigenous locals who have their homes there, and even they are not allowed to build permanent structures!

Spying for Indian military movements can be done there, but again that is restricted to major towns which are quite far away from the border. And anywhere beyond that and the Indian Army will kick u out! Besides now even the Chinese Traders are allowed to visit upto 5 kms this side of the border, so no use employing spies from this side.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by kvraghav »

Stop fighting sirs.Needless to say u r wasting bandwidth.Windows or linux has nothing to do with national security please.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

Anantz wrote:
AmitR wrote:
Indian agencies also use Tibetans to spy on the Chinese border and the TAR region. I think it was the 22 battalion that was formed especially for this purpose and is still being used. Tibetans do not get much assistance from the Indian govt. per se (except for the permission to stay in India) but they do have a vast western buddhist network from which they get a lot of assistance and hence live a life of much better standard than the local population. It is quite possible that the monasteries are actually being used by the western intel agencies to spy on the Chinese. China border is not really very far from this area.
Druk yes that sounds more like Bhutanese they have alcohol by that name.
Well, the Tibetans are included as Scheduled Tribes in India, so most of their kith and kins turn up as Civil service officers in West Bengal and Sikkim, that is why they are quite resented both in Sikkim and Bengal, as they eat into the facilities available to the indigenous Bhutia and Lepcha Tribals! Same thing with education reservations and all. Trust me, I am from that place.

As for spying, I doubt anyone can spy on the Chinese sitting in Darjeeling! It is much far away from the border, and even the border is so heavily militarized that you can hardly enter even 20 kms from the border. If you have ever been to Gangtok u will know, about 5 kms from Gangtok on way to the border, no civillians are allowed to proceed except for the indigenous locals who have their homes there, and even they are not allowed to build permanent structures!

Spying for Indian military movements can be done there, but again that is restricted to major towns which are quite far away from the border. And anywhere beyond that and the Indian Army will kick u out! Besides now even the Chinese Traders are allowed to visit upto 5 kms this side of the border, so no use employing spies from this side.
:eek: Are you sure that Tibetans are included in the ST list , they are foreign nationals and can't even vote. Do you have a link or any source that proves this. I would be really surprised if this is the case. I have personally seen Tibetans as being much well off compared to the Indians due to western funds (talk about being a refugee).
AmitR
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

kvraghav wrote:Stop fighting sirs.Needless to say u r wasting bandwidth.Windows or linux has nothing to do with national security please.
Point taken. Peace. :)
Anantz
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Anantz »

AmitR wrote: :eek: Are you sure that Tibetans are included in the ST list , they are foreign nationals and can't even vote. Do you have a link or any source that proves this. I would be really surprised if this is the case. I have personally seen Tibetans as being much well off compared to the Indians due to western funds (talk about being a refugee).

Well I am pretty sure, the Govt offices in Darjeeling are filled with them. I know because I have lived there. But for further proof, check this site

http://tribal.nic.in/tribes/west_bengal.html
http://tribal.nic.in/tribes/sikkim.html

In both the states, you will find Tibetans included as ST. :-?
All major Civil Service posts are held by either Tibetans or other tribals in Darjeeling, or they are made up of people from the rest of Bengal. The locals are no where seen in the Govt offices except in lower ranking staffs. That is why there is huge resentment against them.
Rishi
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Rishi »

Sheeeesh!

Deleted the flaming posts beween Amit and Avinash. Issued warning to both.

If this bad blood continues in other threads, further warnings will be issued and action taken.

<thulla cap off>

Now let us get back to topic.
AmitR
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by AmitR »

Anantz wrote:
AmitR wrote: :eek: Are you sure that Tibetans are included in the ST list , they are foreign nationals and can't even vote. Do you have a link or any source that proves this. I would be really surprised if this is the case. I have personally seen Tibetans as being much well off compared to the Indians due to western funds (talk about being a refugee).

Well I am pretty sure, the Govt offices in Darjeeling are filled with them. I know because I have lived there. But for further proof, check this site

http://tribal.nic.in/tribes/west_bengal.html
http://tribal.nic.in/tribes/sikkim.html

In both the states, you will find Tibetans included as ST. :-?
All major Civil Service posts are held by either Tibetans or other tribals in Darjeeling, or they are made up of people from the rest of Bengal. The locals are no where seen in the Govt offices except in lower ranking staffs. That is why there is huge resentment against them.
I think this rule applies only to the Tibetans who came before 1960? to settle in India permanently. I read this rule once in the UPSC form. But then how do you know if someone came to India before that date. I don't have problems tribals getting jobs but going by the lax recruitment and verification procedures what prevents the Bangladeshis and Tibetans from government jobs in India illegally. We know many of them have already settled in NE states and acquired ration cards etc.
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