Intelligence & National Security Discussion

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby pgbhat » 19 Dec 2008 12:09

sum and ramana thank you :)
While I believe cell phone service providers co-operate with GOI for tracking/tapping conversations of terror suspects I wonder when we will have an independent ability to track the satellite phones of foreign origin without compromising too much with respect to intelligence sharing with foreign govts.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 22 Dec 2008 18:21

Our new "Homeland Security Czar/Nat.Sec.Min./HM",PC. ! PC seems to have taken over the PM's role as the first recipient of all intel.,as MMS is clearly out of his depth here,preferring to deal with economic matters.

"But since taking over from Shivraj Patil in the wake of last month’s Mumbai terror attack, Chidambaram has brought in wholesale changes. The NSA and the IB and R&AW chiefs now brief him together every day. After their appointment, the ISA, the OSD and the NIA director general will also attend this meeting."

http://www.itgo.in/index.php?option=com ... 5&id=19677

Chidambaram appoints internal security adviser
Aman Sharma
New Delhi, December 21, 2008

Home minister P. Chidambaram has picked one of the country’s senior-most serving IPS officers as his internal security adviser (ISA).

Krishna Chandra Verma, a 1971-batch officer of Jharkhand cadre, will be a key member of Chidambaram’s new team, which aims to streamline India’s security structure. He is currently secretary (security) with the cabinet secretariat, and will retain that position as well. He has been on Central deputation for nearly two decades, serving as special director in the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and as the director general of the Narcotics Control Bureau.

Safi Ahsan Rizvi, another IPS officer of the 1989 batch and an MBA from IIM-Ahmedabad, will be the officer on special duty (OSD) to Chidambaram to collate intelligence inputs.

Chidambaram has also recommended the name of the 1973-batch IPS officer Nehchal Sandhu, currently IB’s special director, as the director general of the upcoming National Investigation Agency (NIA), home ministry sources said. Traditionally, the IB director was the last word on internal security intelligence, while the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) secretary held charge of external intelligence. Both reported to the national security adviser (NSA), M.K. Narayanan, who in turn briefed the Prime Minister.

The home minister, briefed individually only by the IB chief, would be left with limited information on security. But since taking over from Shivraj Patil in the wake of last month’s Mumbai terror attack, Chidambaram has brought in wholesale changes. The NSA and the IB and R&AW chiefs now brief him together every day. After their appointment, the ISA, the OSD and the NIA director general will also attend this meeting.

Both IB and R&AW will also get new bosses next month as the incumbents, P.C. Haldar and Ajay Chaturvedi, retire on December 31 and January 21 respectively. But the twist here is that the next IB chief, P.C. Mathur from the 1972 batch, is a year junior to Verma, the ISA.

Chidambaram’s new OSD also has an interesting portfolio. The 42-year-old officer from Uttaranchal cadre, who has earlier worked with the IB, will do the crucial job of collating security inputs that emerge at Chidambaram’s daily security meetings. He will then work with the ISA to ensure the inputs are communicated to the states and other security agencies and that adequate action is being taken.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 22 Dec 2008 19:36

the setting up of this NIA with many overlapping functions with the CBI is one of the most harebrained schemes I've seen.

other than the wasteful replication of the nationwide infrastructure that CBI currently has, it has been given a piecemeal mandate that will only see it lock horns with the CBI and IB in turf wars.

let's see, NIA would have the ability to investigate but not seek out information on its own by creating sources of its own, that would irk the IB. :roll:
wiki says :
NIA would be be headed by a Director General at par with the DGPs of states. Other than offences of terrorism, it will deal with counterfeit currency, human trafficking, narcotics or drugs, organised crime(extortion mobs and gangs), plane hijacking and violations of atomic energy act and weapons of mass destruction act

and if it does take over the whole gamut of terror related investigation, I'm at pains to understand the logic behind the continued existence of CBI !
what would it do ?
remember that economic crimes are also investigated by the DRI, IT among others.
chase down high profile murders and corruption charges ?
that's it ? do we really need one large national level organization with all the attendant infrastructure and manpower expenses for this ? won't it be better to simply give NIA permission to commence investigation w/o go-ahead from the state govt and merge these activities in its mandate.
the logic of Indian babudom is really difficult to comprehend.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 22 Dec 2008 21:05

Foreign Policy Journal's article:
Why the CIA doesn't want Dawood Ibrahim in India's hands

Yoichi Shimatsu, former editor of the Japan Times, wrote last month after the Mumbai attacks that Ibrahim had worked with the US to help finance the mujahedeen during the 1980s and that because he knows too much about the US's 'darker secrets' in the region, he could never be allowed to be turned over to India.

The recent promotion of Lakhvi to 'mastermind' of the attacks while Ibrahim's name disappears from media reports would seem to lend credence to Shimatsu's assertion.

Investigative journalist Wayne Madsen similarly reported that according to intelligence sources, Ibrahim is a CIA asset, both as a veteran of the mujahedeen war and in a continuing connection with his casino and drug trade operations in Kathmandu, Nepal. A deal had been made earlier this year to have Pakistan hand Ibrahim over to India, but the CIA was fearful that this would lead to too many of its dirty secrets coming to light, including the criminal activities of high level personnel within the agency.

One theory on the Mumbai attacks is that it was backlash for this double-cross that was among other things intended to serve as a warning that any such arrangement could have further serious consequences.

Although designated as a major international terrorist by the US, media reports in India have characterised the US's past interest in seeing Ibrahim handed over as less than enthusiastic. Former Indian deputy prime minister L K Advani wrote in his memoir, My Country, My Life, that he made a great effort to get Pakistan to hand over Ibrahim, and met with then US secretary of state Colin Powell and then national security advisor Condoleezza Rice (now secretary of state) to pressure Pakistan to do so. But he was informed by Powell that Pakistan would hand over Ibrahim only "with some strings attached" and that then Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf would need more time before doing so.


Behind all that rhetoric is Unkil's Big Game. Only goes on to show that India should fight its own war and not expect the US to do its dirty work - even with US 'assurances' of 'action' this time around, we don't know whom to trust and probably, even whom to blame.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 22 Dec 2008 21:14

Honestly, forgetting all the CIA-VIA business of protecting Dawood, the only reason he is running free is because our netas do not want him back unless he starts singing....

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby pgbhat » 23 Dec 2008 03:38

hmm bureaucraZy

BRIDGE THE TROUBLED WATERS

Bridge the troubled waters


The ‘blame-game’ that reared its ugly head in the aftermath of the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks instantly reminded me of the fervent appeals of three successive chiefs of the Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW) to the Naval Headquarters to loan them naval officers for analysis of maritime intelligence. They were seriously concerned that they did not have the necessary expertise available to draw the right conclusions from the mass of information the agency collected from open, human and technical sources. And very correctly they approached the Navy.

Lack of maritime intelligence has also been the Navy’s bane for years. So we understood the handicap the R&AW worked with and felt that it was the Navy’s duty to help. As the Chief of Personnel, I recalled having personally selected some officers for deputation to the R&AW. But to my consternation, I learnt within a few months that most wanted to return to the Navy.

The naval officers deputed to the R&AW did not wish to continue with their deputation because when they were assigned their desks in the Cabinet Secretariat they found to their dismay that they had been placed under officers who were many years their junior in terms of service. Having taken this stoically, they then found that they were deprived of things like telephones, stenographers and transport because the ‘status’ assigned to them did not entitle them to these utilities. The R&AW authorities were sympathetic, but pleaded that they were not in a position to alter the equivalences apparently ‘laid down’ by a Kafkaesque Department of Personnel.

This is symptomatic of a larger malaise: the lack of coordination between organs of the Government of India, that also contributed to the recent Mumbai fiasco. This should not come as a surprise. The GoI is so laissez faire in its approach that it won’t intervene to eliminate inter-agency inequity that can result in crippling dysfunctionality. If you progressively marginalise, downgrade and degrade your own armed forces, you are undermining the security of the State. At the risk of exaggerating, I would venture to state that this is exactly what the Sixth Central Pay Commission (CPC) seems to have achieved.

Today, there is a distinct impression that the CPC has erred grievously on many issues relating to the armed forces. They were not represented in the Commission and its recommendations have spread confusion and consternation. One of the most serious consequences is the sudden and arbitrary alteration of relativities between the armed forces and their civilian counterparts, to the detriment of the former. The resulting change in relationships between the armed forces and para-militaries has grave operational implications that do not seem to have been understood at all at the political level.

Ex-Servicemen, too, are confounded to see the number of anomalies thrown up by the CPC. Take one example: no one understands by what logic a lieutenant-general, a major-general and a brigadier are going to be paid exactly the same pension, while a colonel (with half the service) will receive just Rs 100 less. The government has again rejected the ‘one rank one pension’ demand. But not even a feeble attempt has been made to bridge the gap between today’s and yesterday’s pensioners of the same rank. There is also a distinct impression that the CPC recommendations have been changed by the bureaucracy without due authorisation from the political level.

The most logical way to avoid this confusion and the sense of grievance among the armed forces and ex-servicemen would have been to place a service representative, if not in the CPC, in the review committee. This would have avoided controversy, speculation and unhappiness. A few retired service chiefs, including myself, had written to the Prime Minister to accord this concession. But the appeal remains unanswered.

Spreading unhappiness among the nation’s armed forces or demoralising them and the 2-3 million-strong ex-servicemen community does not serve anyone’s interest. Should someone in authority not sit up and take notice?

(Arun Prakash is former Chief, Indian Navy)

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Dec 2008 12:26

The CIA's involvement with the drugs trade has been going on for decades and almost all of the latter half of the 20th century.After successful operations post WW2,secretly hunting for Nazi loot and secret Japanese hiding places for their looted war treasure in the Phillipines,it turned to the drug trade to keep itself independently financed for its dirty ops.Kennedy sacked the CIA heads after the Bay of Pigs fiasco and was subsequently assassinated by a right wing conspiracy also using the mafia.The Cold War kept the agency busy trying to stir up the Soviet Muslim republics,which got a massive boost when Brezhnev sent in Soviet forces into Afghanistan to shore up his ally there.With the help of its "sister agency",the ISI under Gen.Zia,the drug trade in Afghanistan was gradually being directed and coming under the control of the ISI/Taliban.With such a history behind it,it is inconceivable that Dawood will ever be handed over by the ISI/CIA,buddies in crime.India should instead aim at eliminating him and the other key terror masterminds fullstop.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Raj Malhotra » 23 Dec 2008 12:54

Security upgrade? 90% of budget yet to be spent

New Delhi: Behind the glaring images of police and security personnel armed with outdated weapons and equipped with hardly any preventive gear is an inexplicable reality of unused finances surrendered each year by the Home Ministry.

Of the Rs 715.25 crore marked for the police under plan expenditure this year—that would largely include fresh purchases likes weapons and equipment—police organisations under the Home Ministry have only spent Rs 76.9 crore until November, a mere 10.7 per cent.

The elite National Security Guards, for instance, has just spent over Rs 4 crore of about Rs 15 core that was set aside for capital expenditure in its budget. Last year, of about Rs 9 crore meant for machinery and equipment, the NSG returned over Rs 3 crore. This was the reason it gave: “non-finalisation” of procurement process for bullet-proof jackets, holographic reflex sights and some other hi-tech communication equipment.

Similarly, the Intelligence Bureau was allocated about Rs 50 crore for capital expenditure this year. Till November, it had spent only Rs 9.8 crore.

The worst, incidentally, is the National Technical Research Organisation, the apex technical intelligence body set up on the recommendation of the Kargil Review Committee. It has Rs 2,420 crore marked for capital expenditure this year, which includes massive technological upgrade and construction of a new building. Until November, it had spent just about Rs 195 crore. Last year too, NTRO got Rs 1,850 crore, of which it surrendered Rs 1,414 crore saying it could not finalise purchase of communication equipment.

In the context of coastal security that has come under focus after the Mumbai attacks, a little over Rs 130 crore was allocated in 2007-08 for capital expenditure under three specific schemes — Coastal Security Scheme (CSS), Joint Coastal Patrolling under Operation Swan in Maharashtra and Gujarat, and scheme for hi-tech surveillance on international borders. Of this, Rs 69.9 crore was surrendered or could not be spent.

As for hi-tech surveillance, the MHA said the money was not spent because of delay in “tendering process”. In all, under capital expenditures last year, the Home Ministry surrendered about Rs 1,788 crore of some Rs 4,611 crore allocated for this purpose.

The BSF said it could not procure fast attack crafts because Goa Shipyard Ltd could not provide a proper “cost break-up” and other related documents.

• The CRPF said it could not finalise purchase of over 18,000 AK-47s and 10,000 assault rifles due to “non-materialisation of supplies” from the Ordnance Factory Board.

• Delhi Police had set aside Rs 20 crore for “induction of latest technology” into the force, but surrendered the entire amount citing “non-finalisation of proposals”.

• The CISF returned Rs 195 crore meant for X-Ray baggage inspection system because a certificate from the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board was not submitted.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Dec 2008 13:57

The mental fossilisation by Indian babudom is more lethal; than any terrorist attack.The GOI/political leadership should have strict timelimits for bureaucratic obfuscating in such critical matters and if the deadline is passed,then an immediate decision must be taken by the minister/ministry in charge on the best available info/facts.I know one poor sod who has been supplying and trying to supply a certain item indigenously for a certain service,but is so pissed off at the delay and time taken to place orders.The piece by a former CNS about deputising In officers to R&AW where they were not even provided with telephones,etc. is simply scandalous.The buck for such incompetence should firmly be laid at the feet and hands of the "No Security Adviser" of the day,who supposedly overlooks the functioning of our intel .agencies.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Kanson » 23 Dec 2008 20:36

Don't give intel agencies a RAW deal

What can we learn from the Mumbai tragedy? The first lesson is that we must never forget what happened. The second is to honour the innocent and the brave who died. Third, to prioritise national vulnerabilities and set about protecting them. Fourth, we need to admit to failures and mistakes, then go about remedying them. Spare no cost, upgrade intelligence capabilities, carry out the much delayed police reforms, increase the efficacy of our commandoes and keep doing this, spare the Army from routine counter-terror activities and above all, re-establish the rule of law. Sharpen covert capabilities. And not let Pakistan, which is a nuisance, become a threat.

A people get the government they deserve and a government gets the intelligence it deserves. Our rulers today are those who have learnt nothing and have forgotten that Pakistani leaders sent in soldiers masquerading as so-called 'freedom fighters', but who were actually terrorists, in 1947, 1965, 1999 and now. We cannot have this glib talk about fighting terror jointly with Pakistan. It is like investigating murder with the help of the murderer. We had tied ourselves up in knots when we agreed that both Pakistan and India were victims of terror and today we see a rapprochement between the Tehrik Taliban Pakistan and the Pakistani Army on the western front as they shift their troops to the Indian borders. There is absolutely no need for grand magnanimous gestures -- magnanimity is a function of victory; otherwise it is appeasement.

As usual the Mumbai attacks brought forth comments from wet-behind-the-ears experts on TV with the regular chant of intelligence failure despite thousands of crores spent on intelligence collection. This is simply not true. Remember, intelligence organizations are known only by their failures and do not advertise their successes. Secondly, the amount spent must be seen from the perspective of the country's other major expenses on security like that on the paramilitary and the police. The Armed Forces had a budget of Rs 96,000 crore last year and the budget of the civilian intelligence is a miniscule percentage of the $1.1 trillion GDP of the country. India can afford to spend more as it gets economically powerful and more vulnerable to attacks.

Recent disclosures in the newspapers about RAW's inputs on September 18 and 22 would vindicate its position somewhat. These were based on intercepts and puritans would say that intelligence agencies should never disclose their source of information because this jeopardizes the future of the source --- human or technical. But this cacophony of ill-informed accusations seems to have forced this defensive action. The intelligence provided was actionable enough and armed with this any capable force should have been able to interdict the terrorists. These or other intercepts may not be available the next time because
it is simply not possible to intercept all the traffic and decipher or understand all that is intercepted. Intelligence collection is an intricate and imperfect skill and analysis is a difficult expertise which requires the ability to look and visualise behind the wall.

Inevitably at times like this we sprout experts of various hues. Some have suggested that the IB and RAW be merged. This is unworkable and ridiculous for several reasons. The two require totally different disciplines. Intelligence is a function of area, language and regional expertise and of operational skills honed over years of practical experience. It is not a function that can be professionally performed by birds of passage. External intelligence requires different skills in language, regions and issues. Its method of collection is different as it has to work in hostile surroundings, against the laws of the country to which its officers are assigned. Internal intelligence operates on home ground in accordance with local laws and has the backing of the state. The two functions are not interchangeable. Besides, no democratic country has one intelligence service.

Most of the accusations arise from prejudices simply because intelligence agencies function under secrecy and are, therefore, assumed to be sinister or incompetent. After one Prime Minister foolishly wrecked RAW in 1977 it has always been an endless struggle in the bureaucratic jungle of New Delhi. In 1999 RAW was a convenient whipping boy in the midst of command and systemic failure in Kargil. Even if we have the best intelligence in the world, it will be of no use without commensurate downstream systems.

Since intelligence does not function in a vacuum, mere changes in the intelligence organisations will not be enough. The Home Ministry has to develop its own cadre of experts given the intricacies of security and related problems. Regional and issue expertise rather like the MEA would be the need of the hour where officers rotate only between the MHA and the State. The so-called steel framework has degenerated over time into bureaucratic indolence and ignorance and must be made responsive and modern.

All this has to happen if we have to improve our chances of winning the battle against terrorism.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby shyamd » 29 Dec 2008 22:41

Spies walk in from the cold
Man Mohan
Our Roving Editor

New Delhi, December 26
They are being taken out of the closets, ‘dusted’ and put on the job that they had been doing for long before retirement. Also, capable officers and men are being sourced from the police, armed forces and paramilitary organisations for human, electronic and technical surveillance.

India’s newest secret agency — the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) — operating under the Prime Minister’s Office has been given a massive assignment to tab Pakistan, Bangadesh and China’s imagery and communications intelligence, using various platforms, including satellites.

Yes, the terrorist attacks in Mumbai (November 26-29) have shaken the Indian domestic and foreign intelligence gathering agencies so much that they are now trying to set their house in order.

Intelligence agencies have become conscious of their inadequacies and of the gaps in their knowledge. The ‘new terrorism’ is demanding a revamped intelligence apparatus at the national level and a reinforced co-operation mechanism at the regional and international levels.

Foreign spy agency, Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), and domestic espionage organisation, Intelligence Bureau, have realised that they lack enough ‘HUMINT’ — human intelligence — assets to prevent Mumbai like incidents.

Both RAW and IB are finding it difficult to develop ‘moles’ in the Pakistani system, especially the terrorist groups operating from across the border. “This is because we still do not play much the game of penetration in the enemy ranks,” a highly placed IB officer said, observing that “it is easier to penetrate the sensitive establishments of an adversary state than a terrorist organisation.”

The Mumbai episode has added urgency to the intelligence gathering agencies to develop human intelligence at a larger scale. Not only RAW and IB, economic and other espionage agencies have also been asked to enlarge their base.

Even those men who retired about a decade ago have been contacted with offer to rejoin ‘the company’ again at the rank and salary that they would have been having at this stage. Some of them have refused as they are well-placed in private jobs and it would be difficult for them to disappear again in the world of shadows.

But there are many who have happily given their consent to be back in the field. A senior officer, who retired recently, has been re-hired in one of the spy agencies. Then there are men who have been asked to operate under the cover of their private jobs. New stations are being opened in sensitive cities and border states.

In the NTRO, a preference is being given to those who have a flair for gathering technical intelligence. Many officers from the air force and army’s signal corps have been taken on deputation.

Operating as an ‘allied’ organisation of RAW, the NTRO is trying to develop itself on the lines of America’s National Security Agency (NSA), which is one of the most secretive members of the US intelligence community.

The NTRO’s mandate is not to affect the working of technical wings of various intelligence agencies, including those of armed forces. The NTRO has been instructed to emerge as a super-feeder agency for providing technical intelligence to other agencies on internal and external security.

America has the most sophisticated ‘SIGINT’ (signals intelligence) assets in the world. These assets include spy satellites and planes. These assets are also being used to detect terrorists by intercepting their phone, computer, e-mail and radio communications.

In the Mumbai attacks, the gunmen used technology to gain a tactical advantage. They reportedly carried Blackberries, CDs holding high-resolution satellite images like those used for Google Earth maps, and multiple cell phones with switchable SIM cards that would be hard to track.

Using satellite phones, the gunmen communicated with their leaders abroad, calling voice-over-Internet-protocol phone numbers, making them harder to trace. This was terrorism in digital age.

Like American, Indian intelligence experts are, however, realising that the technological assets still cannot replace the importance of human intelligence assets. Human operatives are still needed to infiltrate and uncover the plans of terrorist groups.

Spending on intelligence gathering through human resources has substantially declined in the militarily powerful western nations in past one decade. But more resources are now being directed toward to improve ‘human intelligence’ devoted to combat terrorists.

Indian agencies, especially RAW, are good in technical intelligence. But after realising that they now have to have ‘specific intelligence’ about terrorism activities -not vague as the country came to know after the Mumbai attacks - RAW and IB have gone for the ‘recruitment drive’ to enroll retired experienced men for field and desk jobs. Specialists are much in demand.

“The idea is to substantially increase the number of new sources reporting on terrorism as the job of tracking terrorists is not becoming easier,” a RAW source said.

Despite this, experts point out that failures there have been and failures there will be. No intelligence agency in the world, whatever are its human and material resources and its technical and technological capability, can claim or hope to be all-knowing. “What is required,” as an old guard put it, “There is need to reduce the gap between failures and success.”

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 30 Dec 2008 19:06

Good to read that...real feel good piece after all the buffoonery our nets are subjecting us to.
However,regarding the quote of "normal" govt agencies being easier to penetrate compared to terrorist orgs:
Does it mean that we have sufficient HUMINT in Paki and Chinese govts/agencies?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 31 Dec 2008 01:10

sum wrote:Good to read that...real feel good piece after all the buffoonery our nets are subjecting us to.
However,regarding the quote of "normal" govt agencies being easier to penetrate compared to terrorist orgs:
Does it mean that we have sufficient HUMINT in Paki and Chinese govts/agencies?


Paki for sure considering shorter language and cultural barriers. Chinese - probably limited to Embassy employees having local contacts. Btw, no one here can confirm HUMINT sources as you would appreciate.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 31 Dec 2008 08:08

Certainly...but, from what i had gathered after all the articles on RAW till now, we seem to have a dearth of HUMINT even in Pak after all our networks were wound up after IKG. Also, throughout the 80s, most of our assets were POWs of 71 who were turned over by RAW and released. Most of them would have retired by now. Hence, the query.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 31 Dec 2008 12:24


sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 01 Jan 2009 18:45

Q to gurus:
What is the role of the CBI in future? It has no unique mandate which isnt already nbeing performed by other agencies?

Or is it that like the Pakis terror orgs, CBI has changed its name into NIA and the CBI is defunct for all practical purposes?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby somnath » 01 Jan 2009 18:59

Q to gurus:
What is the role of the CBI in future? It has no unique mandate which isnt already nbeing performed by other agencies?

Or is it that like the Pakis terror orgs, CBI has changed its name into NIA and the CBI is defunct for all practical purposes?


While I am not a guru, can attempt to answer!

CBI has the jurisdiction to investigate every single type of case, from theft to terrorism - but only when requested to by the state government. Mind you, law and order is a state govt responsibility, and all crimes are primarily handled by the police. CBI comes in only when the state govt "asks" it to.

The new NIA has more limited jurisdiction - it only handles some types of crimes, related to "terrorism". However, it would not reqiure any invitation from the state govt to do so. A committee of the cetral govt will decide if the NIA needs to go in for those "types" of cases, and it will just go in, without waiting for any invite frm the state.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby MohanG » 01 Jan 2009 19:19

Not a guru either. Just adding to what Somnath has said before ^^^

CBI retains its original jurisdiction of investigating corruption cases in the Central Government Offices/ Public Sector Units/ Nationalized Banks etc. NIA will not look after these cases.

CBI has also been asked by High Court/Supreme Court to investigate various cases. It will continue to do so. {Whether the High Courts/Supreme Court can order CBI inquiry without the consent of the concerned State Government is an issue pending before the Constitution Bench of the Supreme Court. As you would guess, most State Governments are against this power being unilaterally exercised by the constitutional Courts}

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Mandeep » 01 Jan 2009 20:18

The CBI is a most competent professional agency in the task of criminal investigation. I feel the agency should've been upgraded and strengthened as regards quality of personnel, funds, equipment, technology and wherewhithal to take on the investigation of terror crimes and act as the federal crime organisation.

However we here in India have a penchant for setting up new organisations at the drop of a er, lathi. The potential for empire building is so great that it becomes paramount. Communal riots marring peace ? Set up a Rapid Action Force out of the CRPF never mind that the latter force is competent and professional. Hostage rescue situations ? Set up the NSG with all the problems of command and control exacerbated by the internecine warfare between the Army and the police and para-military forces. Naxalite problem ? No fears, wel'' set up the jingoistic sounding COBRA. Which stands for Cobra Battalion of Resolute Action !

When will we ever learn to strengthen existing institutions instead of creating multifarious new ones ?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby somnath » 01 Jan 2009 20:25

Mandeep,

Agreed - its quite nonsensical. Setting up "new forces" when the staffing of existing ones is not full. While I am less sanguine about the capabilities of CBI, thefact is that NIA will sweat assets from other agencies, at least to start with.

When the problem is of capacity and quality, proliferation of agencies is the absolute wrong medicine!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Philip » 03 Jan 2009 15:13

Here's something of interest for our spooks,in our war aaginst terror.

(excerpt)
“We have evolved as a technology mercenary team, specializing in information security operations, cyber-security and critical infrastructure intelligence and we can offer our expertise to government and defense industrial base partners.”

http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/44536/
Technology Spy Firm Turning Intelligence Outside In

NewswireToday - /newswire/ - Washington, DC, United States, 01/01/2009 - OSINT Group - Open source intelligence operators applying ICDs to assist government, industry with cyber-security operations and “all source” initiatives.

The OSINT Group, a boutique Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) firm specializing in information security and “black hat” technology operations in the corporate sector launch a private sector platform to assist the US Government, the Intelligence Community and the Department of Defense with the nation’s information security operations by offering the best private sector minds in cyber security and network-centric operations.

“We are entering the government sector under the umbrella of Intelligence Community Directives issued in 2007 and 2008,” Michael Bagley, CEO of The OSINT Group and Maryland Chapter President of the Military Intelligence Corps Association (MICA) said. “Specifically, ICD 200, 301 and 623 call for and encourage the Intelligence Community to tap outside expertise and build and expand relationships with Highly Qualified Experts (HQEs) in the private sector. We will share our information security expertise and our predictive analytic capabilities to help government sector clients with their network operations and intelligence requirements.”

The Director of National Intelligence (DNI) established Intelligence Community Directives (ICDs) as the principal means by which the DNI provides guidance, policy, and direction to the Intelligence Community.

The OSINT Group consists of specialized private sector technology leaders from business, government and academia, many of whom have been speakers at the annual Black Hat Conventions held in Las Vegas, Washington DC and Europe. Members of The OSINT Group have also appeared as panelists at DEFCON and “Hack in the Box” conferences.

“The Black Hat conventions are a series of highly technical information security conferences that bring together the best thought leadership from all facets of the ‘infosec’ world – from the corporate and government sectors to underground technology professionals and researchers,” Karim Hijazi, CTO of The OSINT Group said. “We have evolved as a technology mercenary team, specializing in information security operations, cyber-security and critical infrastructure intelligence and we can offer our expertise to government and defense industrial base partners.”
[blackhat.com/html/bh-about/about.html]

The information networks of the U.S. government and the commercial sector such as the nation's power companies and financial institutions are under persistent and increasing cyber attack from foreign adversaries, including major criminal organizations and countries like China, according to recent high-level reports by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission.
[uscc.gov/annual_report/2008/chapter2_section_3.pdf]

The Bush administration launched the Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative in 2008 to monitor Internet traffic and protect federal agencies against cyber attacks. The initiative is expected to cost billions of dollars over many years, and most of its details are classified.

The Defense Science Board in November recommended the Obama administration dramatically expand the scope of the cyber-security initiative to include protection of the commercial information infrastructure used by key sectors such as finance, transportation, manufacturing and agriculture "upon which the entire country depends."

“Full spectrum network operations and cyber-security initiatives require a public-private sector partnership and information sharing,” Bagley said. “Our team consists of some of the best technology minds in the private sector and we want to share our expertise with the leaders in the public sector – the government, the defense contractors and the intelligence community.”

About The OSINT Group, LLC
Using open source intelligence tactics and specialized analytic software, The OSINT Group (Osintgroup.com) offers its unique private sector technology expertise as an outside support team for information security operations (including cyber and CI) and for “All Source” intelligence requirements to government, defense contractors and Intelligence Community clients. Additional focus includes global energy security and terrorism monitoring, forensics and financial intelligence, climate change data collection and war gaming exercises.

ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby ramana » 04 Jan 2009 02:27

They should have upgraded the CBI and formalised its charter. There are no purely terrorism acts. They all have an economic angle to it. I suspect the NIA is a way for the US to get its toehold in Indian internal security apparatus. IB is off limits as it is. But mumble mumble singh is acting like a wounded puppy and is opening up the gates to everything while pretending to act.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 04 Jan 2009 11:17

Arrested Chinese man in Dharamshala might be a 'spy' -
Chinese national Ley Xiuan, who was arrested for staying illegally at Mcleodganj, has revealed during police interrogation that he was a member of the People’s Liberation Army of China. He also revealed that he had visited Mcleodganj in May and August.
What has deepened the security agencies’ suspicion is that the Chinese embassy has so far not responded in spite of the police informing the officials about Xiuan’s arrest on December 11.

Sources told HT that the police had also contacted international intelligence agencies to analyse the details obtained from Xiuan’s mobile phone. According to the sleuths, the call details show that he had been in contact with a high-ranking Chinese military official in Lhasa.

Xiuan has reportedly revealed that he had come by road from Lhasa, the capital of the Chinese controlled Tibetan region and later reached Delhi after travelling through Nepal illegally

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Austin » 04 Jan 2009 13:01

ramana wrote:They should have upgraded the CBI and formalised its charter. There are no purely terrorism acts. They all have an economic angle to it. I suspect the NIA is a way for the US to get its toehold in Indian internal security apparatus. IB is off limits as it is. But mumble mumble singh is acting like a wounded puppy and is opening up the gates to everything while pretending to act.


Why is IB off limits ? they had this unsucessful attempts via Ratan.

Since NIA will be a nodal agency to communicate with Internal and External agency how can one make this system fool proof from penetration ?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby satya » 05 Jan 2009 01:05

My 2 cents on IB :

IB is the political intelligence agency of the ruling party in Center . All the inner workings of Indian politics & actors involved are known to IB & tools of IB are used to shape things . Opening IB to external forces will be ......................... so it doesn't matter which party comes at Center , IB is off limit always .

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Anabhaya » 05 Jan 2009 02:58

While I concur that CBI could have been strengthened I'm not entirely convinced that NIA will help - either intentionally or otherwise, external forces gain access or 'toehold' as Ramana put it. I don't see too many venues for interactions with external agencies. Quite far from opening a gate or something.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 06 Jan 2009 21:52

RAW goes on a recce mission

CHENNAI: A day after the Sri Lankan army took over Kilinochchi, pushing the LTTE fighters to the northern jungles of Mullaittivu, India sent a select team of the Research & Analysis Wing (RAW) on a secret aerial surveillance mission across the Palk Straits.

Sources told TOI that the aircraft belonging to the Air Research Centre (ARC)( :!: Aviation Research Center), a top secret wing of RAW, took off from Chennai airport around 3am on Saturday. Sources refused to confirm if the ARC exercise was on the request of the Sri Lankan government.
"The ARC aircraft, which took off from Chennai with high-tech espionage equipment, flew quite close to the Sri Lankan coast and got back to another airport without returning to Chennai," a source said. ARC, which has a fleet of Boeings and Embraers fitted with some of the best cameras for high-altitude photography, can fly well above 40,000 feet.

The vision of the cameras, made on the lines of satellite cameras, can penetrate clouds and get photographs of spatial resolution of less than one metre, which means a small vehicle or even a person on the ground could be photographed from those heights. For civilian flights, there are internationally accepted preset codes. The ARC aircraft uses codes and call signs other than these and keeps changing them before every exercise.

The exercises are so secretive that ARC uses its own pilots and not even those from the Indian Air Force. While it uses civilian and IAF airports across the country, there is no fixed air base for ARC, which remains more of a dynamic arrangement than an organisation. "There was little notice for Saturday's mission. The flight came from some other airfield and took off in the early hours," an airport source said.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 08 Jan 2009 09:54

X-post:


Amazing news. I have always been impressed by his clear vision and understanding in his columns:
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Jan82009/national20090108111285.asp
Ex-IB director to assess security scenario in State

From Deepak K Upreti,DH News Service,New Delhi:

Former Director of Intelligence Bureau (IB) Ajit Doval will make a first-hand assessment of security scenario in Karnataka before suggesting fresh measures for its improvement. When asked by Deccan Herald about his role as security advisor to the state government, Doval sought not to elaborate on the issue before making an assessment of the task at hand.

“I have been advising some other state governments too,” he said. Besides Karnataka, Gujarat and Uttarakhand have also been seeking Doval’s expert advise on security issues.
IB Director from 2004-05, he has received a special compliment from Laldenga of Mizo National Front who claim that Doval has won over 6 of his 7 army commanders. Leading from the front, Doval spent long periods incognito with the Mizo National Army in the Arakan in Burma and inside Chinese territory. Besides, he is understood to have spent an estimated six years in Pakistan too.
An IPS officer of 1968 batch (Kerala cadre), the ex-IB chief was actively involved in the conflicts relating to Mizo, Punjab, and Jammu and Kashmir. He is the first police officer in India to get Kirti Chakra.
Supposed to be one of the best minds on counter-terrorism operations, he has participated in some of the most daring operations and dramatic crisis-management-negotiations in the country for over last two decades.


Do IB officers serve in China, Burma and Pak or was all this undercover biz?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby somnath » 08 Jan 2009 10:41

Ajit Doval is one of the "legends" of Indian intel. His Kirti Chakra was because of his contribution in Black Thunder, when he was inside the Golden Temple disguised as a pilgrim, guiding the forces outside continuously. The factoid about Laldenga is also true - apparently his house in NE used to be a meeting place for a host of insurgent leaders of various hues!

Typically, IB officers wont serve outside the country, but there will always be exceptions, especially with respect of counter intel ops in what is known as "near abroad"!

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby satya » 08 Jan 2009 13:24

Atleast four Indian Intelligence Agencies run covert intel operations in our neighbourhood specially the neighbour in west . IB was specifically given a free hand post Kargil for such ops . Apart from these 4 , there are techint agencies running their own ops . Intel flow has never been a problem, its the analysis or making the picture always found lacking . But things are changing now .
A bit stale news but MACs have been given additional power recently tht may help internal security situation considerably .

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 08 Jan 2009 13:39

Atleast four Indian Intelligence Agencies run covert intel operations in our neighbourhood specially the neighbour in west .

RAW, IB, MI and G-Branch (BSF)?

Or did i get any wrong in the 4?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 09 Jan 2009 20:49

Inder Kumar Gujral had stopped RAW from conducting covert operations in Pakistan - as a unilateral 'gesture'. Has that order since been reversed?

satya wrote:Atleast four Indian Intelligence Agencies run covert intel operations in our neighbourhood specially the neighbour in west . IB was specifically given a free hand post Kargil for such ops . Apart from these 4 , there are techint agencies running their own ops . Intel flow has never been a problem, its the analysis or making the picture always found lacking . But things are changing now .
A bit stale news but MACs have been given additional power recently tht may help internal security situation considerably .

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 09 Jan 2009 21:54

IIRC, he rolled back the covert "action" capabilities...

a part of the plain bread and butter covert ops would surely have been retained.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 10 Jan 2009 15:19

Was reading a novel by Vikram Chandra. In that he mentions that at the time of fall of the Soviet Union, Pak got into the act and tried to smuggle our currency printing plates from Soviet Union to help in their counterfeit ops against India. However, Indian agencies got wind of it and thwarted that attempt though they couldn't stop the Pakis from getting hold of lots of currency paper due to which their counterfeits were of superior quality.

Anyone in the loop knows if this is a fact or just a fiction of the novel?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby soutikghosh » 10 Jan 2009 19:39

sum wrote:Was reading a novel by Vikram Chandra. In that he mentions that at the time of fall of the Soviet Union, Pak got into the act and tried to smuggle our currency printing plates from Soviet Union to help in their counterfeit ops against India. However, Indian agencies got wind of it and thwarted that attempt though they couldn't stop the Pakis from getting hold of lots of currency paper due to which their counterfeits were of superior quality.

Anyone in the loop knows if this is a fact or just a fiction of the novel?


What's the name of the novel ?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 10 Jan 2009 22:00

Sacred games...

This particular passage is put as the memoir of a fictional IB commissioner who reminiscences about this operation. The whole novel seems to be modelled on real stories(like ISI taking a gangster named Suleiman Isa into its wings after the Mumbai blasts and the RAW in turn taking a gangster named Ganesh into its fold to carry out hits on ISI targets abroad using Ganesh's networks which looks eerily similar to the D companyChotta Rajan story) and hence the doubt whether this piece of "fiction" could have actually happened?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby abhijitm » 11 Jan 2009 22:21

guys,
Just a thought brings chill in my brain. What is the possibility of nukes are already smuggled in India, as a second strike option for Pak? If 10 people can get into Mumbai so easily, how big deal is to smuggle a nuke and hide in Mumbai somewhere. When time comes, just wait for a signal and then BOOOM.

chalo, abhi smuggle nahi kiya hai but future main karana kitna mushkil hai? Pak doesnt have to build missiles to strike deep into India.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby sum » 11 Jan 2009 22:23

What is the possibility of nukes are already smuggled in India, as a second strike option for Pak? If 10 people can get into Mumbai so easily, how big deal is to smuggle a nuke and hide in Mumbai somewhere.

Very plausible....Maybe, thats a reason for the Paki bluster/devil may care attitude?

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby abhijitm » 11 Jan 2009 22:29

sum wrote:
What is the possibility of nukes are already smuggled in India, as a second strike option for Pak? If 10 people can get into Mumbai so easily, how big deal is to smuggle a nuke and hide in Mumbai somewhere.

Very plausible....Maybe, thats a reason for the Paki bluster/devil may care attitude?


So, assuming something is fishy, are IB/RAW trying to dig more? Therer is no discussion over this topic in any media, why? If there is even a slightest possibility then all citizens must be made aware, I think.

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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Postby abhijitm » 11 Jan 2009 22:41

after exposing AQ Khan's racket, is there a possibility that US exactly knows all about Pak nukes? Has there been any indication from them that some are 'missing'?


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