Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

disha
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 01:54

Neshant wrote:Dark storm clouds are looming over India's economic horizon.


Already pointed out currently stagflation - next stop recession!

I hope the babus are alive to the situation and making emergency plans.


Yes they definitely are. Whether they include you or not is a different issue., fend for yourself. As for Aam Junta., they are anyway used to hand-to-mouth existence.

Another repeat of 1990 where a sudden crunch in forex reserves is coming.


Now we are two who have pointed this out. Earlier I feared for the current gen. of 20+ kids., now I wish they get a dose of it. Knocks them into their senses.

I wonder if this act is a planned sabotage of the economies of developing countries or a cover for something else.


No Saajis-vajish., pure mismanagement. Lack of governance., lack of vision., more of chamchagiri causes this.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby vina » 18 Jun 2013 11:40

This needs to be posted in full. Capitalism is Changing Caste Faster Than Any Human

After all, it is the person who suffers most knows who his true friend is!
'Capitalism is changing caste much faster than any human being. Dalits should look at capitalism as a crusader against caste'
Shekhar Gupta Posted online: Tue Jun 11 2013, 04:14 hrs
In this Walk the Talk with The Indian Express Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta, Milind Kamble, founder of the Dalit Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DICCI), and Chandra Bhan Prasad, its mentor, say “the nation should know Dalits are not only takers, they are givers”

I am at Nariman Point, the heart of corporate, super rich India. At a time when the talk is of inclusive growth, my guests today are two faces of genuinely inclusive growth in India: Milind Kamble, founder of Dalit Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (DICCI), and Chandra Bhan Prasad, its mentor. Two Dalit leaders, who don't claim to be victims, who don't claim victimhood, and who don’t ask for doles, reservations, favours, no complaints. So, are you oddballs? Are you trying to change the script?

CHANDRA BHAN PRASAD: This has been the Dalit tradition—Ambedkar rose on his own, so did Guru Ravidas. There are thousands of such examples in history where Dalits have stood up and risen on their own. So there is nothing unusual about us. What has happened during the past 50 or 60 years is that the state’s welfare measures or methods or reservations got slightly misunderstood and also slightly misused by the “victims”.

Did it work well for the victims or not?

CBP: It worked well, but it has outlived its potential and power, now something else has to happen.

Milindji, you are charting a new course. You are organising Dalit entrepreneurs in this Dalit Chamber. Is there really a large enough number of Dalit entrepreneurs in India?

MILIND KAMBLE: Yes, there are. If I quote from the Census carried out by the Ministry of Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSME), 10 per cent of MSMEs registered with the Government of India are Dalit-owned, which is about 1,64,000 across the country. Most of us fall within the ambit of MSMEs, there are a few who have grown into large enterprises. That is the situation.

Who are the largest? Tell me about a few.

MK: The largest enterprise that is part of our Chamber is of Rajesh Saraiya, who is from Sitapur district in Uttar Pradesh. He is currently based in Ukraine and his companies are registered in London, Ukraine and six other countries. He has a presence in Mumbai too. He is the biggest Dalit entrepreneur whose businesses have a turnover of Rs 2,000 crore.

That is almost half a billion dollars. Tell me about him.

CBP: He went to Russia on a scholarship to study engineering. When the Soviet Union collapsed, he did odd jobs to continue his education and after completing it, joined (Laxmi Niwas) Mittal’s steel company as a translator. He figured out the tricks of the trade and started dealing with steel, first with the Tatas. Today, he is worth over $400 million, owns four Mercedes Benz cars and is only in his forties. Then there is Kalpana Saroj who worked for Rs 5 a day in Mumbai in 1975 and today she owns Kamani Tubes.

I believe the silencer in the Tata Nano is produced by a Dalit entrepreneur.

MK: Yes, indeed. Not just the silencer, there are other parts as well. The perception that the country has about our community that...

...they are victims, the prey.

MK: There is a view that Dalits are the jamaais (sons-in-law) of the government. This is not true. As you said, there is (a Dalit entrepreneur) who makes silencers for the Nano, one Sushil Kumar in Ghaziabad supplies (motorcycle) stands to Hero, in Pune there is one Gokul Gaikwad who supplies parts for Tata Indigo, in Sangli there is Sadamate Industries which supplies parts to Forbes Marshall, to Bajaj.

CBP: Bajaj Pulsar has three parts supplied by Dalits. If they stop supplies to Bajaj, Hero, Honda, Tata Motors.
..

...the companies will close down.

CBP: No. The vehicles will stop running for want of parts.

MK: This way, we need to change perceptions.

You wish to change the story of

victimhood.

MK: Yes. Many have emerged from their circumstances and established businesses.

CBP: In Uttar Pradesh alone, 50 big hospitals are being run by Dalit doctors. Some of them were manual labourers in their childhood, during their high school and intermediate days.

The fact is, these Dalits became doctors because of reservations.

CBP: Yes.

So we cannot undermine the value of affirmative action.

CBP: Certainly. Affirmative action has given Dalits a launch pad. A launch pad is a launch pad. You need that to take off. Ambedkar gave you the launch pad. Now don’t run on the launch pad, take off.

So are you saying economic reforms and globalisation have been positive developments for Dalits?

MK: We welcome it. It has been a very positive development in India’s economic growth story. Earlier, there were only few companies that used to make cars, two-wheelers and spares, because only they had the licence. As the licence raj was dismantled, new players entered the market. The existing firms had their vendor-base fixed, and the dealings used to happen only with them. As new players entered, there was a need for new vendors, new suppliers, a new supply chain and that is how more entrepreneurs got an opportunity.

CBP: Also, earlier there was a notion of one product under one roof. Because of economic reforms, globalisation, you can’t produce everything under one roof. You will have to outsource work. Most of the Dalit entrepreneurs of today are beneficiaries of outsourcing.

Outsourcing of manufacturing.


CBP: Yes. Along with globalisation came Adam Smith to challenge Manu. So that’s why for the first time, money has become bigger than caste.

So markets have become bigger than caste, bigger than Marx.

Yes. Bigger than caste, bigger than Marx, bigger than everybody because in this marketplace, only your ability is respected.

Chandra Bhanji, you say that money has challenged caste and Marx, and you spent your youth as a gun-toting Naxalite.

CBP: Yes...I think I was a fool.


You were an actual Naxalite, a part of the underground. Tell us that story.

CBP: I was a young man then, studying in JNU and I thought we must change India. Then, somebody said the gun is the best thing to overthrow the system, and I said I will be part of it.

And JNU is a place where the CPM is considered a dangerous right-wing party :lol: :lol: (I have always maintained that the Naxalites should pay for JNU and no taxpayer and it should be shifted from Dilli to Dantewada).

CBP: Yes...and I went in the field and saw violence is no way to change society. It is now outdated to have a view that a weapon or a people’s army can overthrow the present regime and trigger a revolution. So I got disillusioned and I thought everybody makes mistakes, and I too made a mistake.

You came back from there and made a complete turnaround?

CBP: Yes. Earlier, I completely went by ideas and thoughts that I was told. Later, I started thinking and saw changes. When I saw a Dalit in Bahadurgarh manufacturing cranes with a polytechnic training, I thought India is changing. When I saw a Dalit in Khurja running the biggest sweet shop and people buying sweets from him, while knowing he is Dalit, I thought India is changing. Now Dalits in several parts of India are running good restaurants. People are eating there. So I thought India is changing. So I thought let us go with the change.

Milindji, you came to the city, to Pune, started your venture. Were people still reminding you of your caste? Or were they ignoring your caste?

MK: In Maharashtra, your surname often gives away your caste. Look at my name: Milind Kamble. Kamble is a known Dalit surname. In the business I work in, construction...

...you have a turnover of Rs 80 crore.

MK: Yes, across all the businesses I am engaged in...So in the construction sector, over 80 per cent of the labour force belongs to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. The work involves hard labour, which is possible only by us, which is why, we did not see discrimination.

...And you were an engineer, an added qualification.

MK: Yes.

Let me put this metaphorically. If market is a better equaliser than Marx, is the market a better equaliser than Mayawati?

CBP: Most certainly. So far, we held a belief that only an individual can liberate society. Now we see that there is an economic process, that capitalism is changing caste much faster than any human being. Therefore, in capitalism versus caste, there is a battle going on and Dalits should look at capitalism as a crusader against caste.

...As a force multiplier.

CBP: Yes. Dalits don’t succeed in villages. Dalits don’t succeed in traditional trades where you have a wide gadda and a white pillow. That’s why we say bring in FDI in retail and destroy this traditional system where Dalits can’t even step in.

This caste-denominated monopoly over money and over transactional benefits...

CBP: Yes. That is why I say, what man failed to do, capitalism is doing. Let us go with capitalism that is changing caste faster than your reforms.

Milindji, you speak of empowerment and that June 6, the day on which we are recording this, is going to be a turning point in the history of Dalit evolution. Why do you say so?

MK: Today, we are launching our own venture capital fund of Rs 500 crore and it will be an alternative fund registered with SEBI. This is India’s first social impact fund that will cater exclusively to enterprises run by Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. We, the entrepreneurs from the community, are endeavouring to make a mark on the business landscape—and many are making a mark. Today is a day when we are making a mark on the country’s capital markets.

Your slogan is, Dalits should become job givers, not job seekers.

MK: Yes.

CBP: And every follower of Bhimrao Ambedkar should become job givers, not job seekers.

Tell me, how did the two of you meet? Chandrabhanji is from a backward region in Uttar Pradesh—Azamgarh—and Milindji is from Maharashtra.

CBP: I went to him and saw that he had formed DICCI and is uniting Dalit entrepreneurs nationwide. His interest was that there should be business advocacy among Dalits. I have only one interest: to survey Dalit entrepreneurs and calculate the tax they pay the government and show that the taxes they pay are far greater than the money the government spends on the welfare of the Dalits. I asked him, can I join you? And I joined him.

When I heard you say that—as I also have my mind conditioned by stereotypes—I thought you were about to say that all the tax Dalit entrepreneurs pay the government, should be spent back on Dalits.

CBP: We are saying that Dalit entrepreneurs are giving more in taxes to the state than what the state is spending on Dalits. We want to prove this. I am not a businessman, I am a writer. That’s how we came together. Our interests match. The nation should know that Dalits are not only takers, they are givers.

Did people laugh at you when you started this (DICCI)?

MK: Yes. When we began this, people felt that he is out of his mind. What is this SC/ST chamber of commerce and industry? Can there be anything like that? Can people from our community become businessmen? This was the mindset then and people laughed at me. During the period 2003-2005, we formed DICCI. In 2010, we organised our first trade fair in Pune. It was then that we got the attention of the media and word spread nation-wide that Dalit entrepreneurs have formed a forum. Last year, we organised a trade fair in Mumbai, at the Bandra-Kurla Complex.

For non-Mumbaikars, BKC is the new banking district of India.

MK: Yes. We organised a trade fair in which 150 Dalit businessmen from all over the country exhibited. Adi Godrej was present at the inauguration and among the visitors were Ratan Tata, Sushilkumar Shinde and Sharad Pawar and many others. After that, those who laughed at me and doubted my endeavour, even the Dalit entrepreneurs who used to hide their caste until then, when they saw that DICCI had forged an alliance with Corporate India—50 corporates came there—the hesitation ended and today it has become a platform throughout the country. There are DICCI chapters in 17 states, and our membership has swelled to 3,000.

Chandra Bhanji, you are a traveller, an analyst, a writer, a scholar. Do you see Dalits and even tribals changing as you go through the countryside?

CBP: Yes, the biggest change that has occurred and which I thought would never happen in this country—that food sources have become common for Dalits and upper castes. Earlier, Dalits mainly ate millets...

...what is called coarse grain

CBP: That was a low social marker—this is Dalit food or cattle feed. Now Dalits and upper castes and OBCs have common sources of food—wheat and rice. And jeans and T-shirts have become new weapons of emancipation. I see in villages Dalit youth sporting jeans and T-shirts. Something is happening in the countryside. Dressing well, eating well. They are also migrating from the countryside to cities like Mumbai and Aurangabad and Ahmedabad and elsewhere. Something new is going to happen in a month or two. A big Indian company is going to form a joint venture with a Dalit entrepreneur to produce a common product. This will shake the old consciousness. This would show how India is integrating, how a new process has started.

...And how capitalism is achieving what Marx and Mayawati could not?

CBP: Yes. Capitalism cannot survive without finishing feudalism and destroying caste. It is in the interest of capitalism to destroy caste, and that is happening, whether we like it or not.

You keep saying that the ideological mentor of DICCI is Montek Singh Ahluwalia. That will alarm many people because he is supposed to be a man of the Washington Consensus—anti-poverty, anti-poor, etc.

CBP: Montek is a friend of Adam Smith and Adam Smith is an enemy of Manu, so therefore, Montek is our friend.

Enemy’s enemy is your friend
. :rotfl: :rotfl: What happens to this discourse on poverty—that you need a direct attack on poverty, that poverty is the problem, poverty is there forever, poverty has not come down...?

CBP: People who are working on poverty have a better life than people like us, because if you work on poverty, then you fly. You work on poverty, you live in five-star hotels. If you work on poverty, you are in touch with big foreign funding agencies. So, talking poverty makes you strong, makes you rich.

I say sometimes in my cynical moments that we Indians have invented a new ideology, it’s called povertarianism. And then central principle of that ideology is that poverty is my birth right and I shall make sure you have it.

CBP: The benefits are enormous. The fellow who sells poverty himself leads a rich life.

Now your alma mater, JNU, is the Dalal Street of poverty, rather povertarianism. :lol: :lol:

CBP: JNU creates people who see every human being incapable of rising on his own. That is JNU’s DNA.

Milindji, If JNU is the Dalal Street of poverty, you are now aiming for this (the real) Dalal Street. Where does the inspiration come from?

MK: The inspiration behind DICCI is the economic thought of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar. The second is the black capitalism in America.

It says so in your mission statement.

MK: Yes. I asked my friend how was it possible that Barack Obama could be President of the United States? A black man in the White House! So he told me, there are thousands of “business Obamas”, that is why you have one Obama in the White House. There are thousands of black entrepreneurs in the United States who have made their presence felt on Wall Street. Till the day Dalit entrepreneurs make their presence felt on Dalal Street, let growth be how much ever it is, it won’t be sustainable.

Nobody could have put it better than that. Milindji, thank you very much, it has been so inspirational to have this conversation with you. Chandra Bhanji, you are a wonderful mentor. Fortunately, you picked the right cause. Had you stayed on with Naxalites, you might have been a bigger problem there.

Transcribed by L Ramakrishnan


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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby svinayak » 18 Jun 2013 21:30

The script is not quite working, for marketmen cannot be fooled all the time. In any case, the markets are currently dancing to Ben Bernanke’s tunes. Its direction will be determined by whether the US Fed continues with its quantitative easing, or starts withdrawing the stimulus a bit at a time.

Of all the “reforms” attributed to Chidambaram and the UPA, only the diesel price increase – that too, only between election seasons – counts as some kind of reform. FDI in retail is stuck despite risking the government. Gold imports tell us that our people’s confidence in the economy is low. And Chidambaram has been erecting barriers to gold imports – an anti-reform measure clearly.

Indian market has least connection to US market. Indian trade with US is small and has least impact.
So what is the reason that "the markets are currently dancing to Ben Bernanke’s tunes. Its direction will be determined by whether the US Fed continues with its quantitative easing"

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Yayavar » 18 Jun 2013 21:46

vina wrote:This needs to be posted in full. Capitalism is Changing Caste Faster Than Any Human



Good that such realization is becoming more common. Better economy is certainly the answer.

OT:
Why still use the term Dalit when one is not though?
Chandra Bhan is an odd character - he says (in an interview a few years back) that his family had the first pucca house and the largest house in their village in 1930's. The zamindar came to them to not build higher than his house but they did. And before making money (in Burma) his family was the enforcer for the zamindar. So not really 'dalit' that is trampled (but a trampler). Therefore I'm always very confused where the lines lie. This is not to deny the real inequities that existed in the communities - but a broad brush also seems incorrect. I

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby disha » 18 Jun 2013 22:15

CBP: People who are working on poverty have a better life than people like us, because if you work on poverty, then you fly. You work on poverty, you live in five-star hotels. If you work on poverty, you are in touch with big foreign funding agencies. So, talking poverty makes you strong, makes you rich.

I say sometimes in my cynical moments that we Indians have invented a new ideology, it’s called povertarianism. And then central principle of that ideology is that poverty is my birth right and I shall make sure you have it.

CBP: The benefits are enormous. The fellow who sells poverty himself leads a rich life.

Now your alma mater, JNU, is the Dalal Street of poverty, rather povertarianism.

CBP: JNU creates people who see every human being incapable of rising on his own. That is JNU’s DNA.



I have said the above all along., just new word "povertarianism" has been coined. I have a better word - 5* poverty.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Suraj » 19 Jun 2013 04:16

Since the Finance Minister has been a strong advocate of not holding precious metals including gold, I hope his next affidavit does not look like his last one:
Pre-election affidavit of personal wealth
Approx 1.5kg of gold, 52kg of silver and 85 carats in diamonds. Their value far exceed the value of his nominal savings deposit holdings.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Arjun » 19 Jun 2013 05:05

vina wrote:This needs to be posted in full. Capitalism is Changing Caste Faster Than Any Human

Good one...The 'teach them to fish rather than give them fish' approach is absolutely the right one - unfortunately the victimhood politics of caste will be kept alive as long as the Congress is around to (mis) govern.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Singha » 19 Jun 2013 07:07

And JNU is a place where the CPM is considered a dangerous right-wing party.

:rotfl: priceless

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Prasad » 19 Jun 2013 10:29

pandyan wrote:Latest movie by Praskash Raj 'Gouravam' touches the caste topic and he has woven a fast paced story around it. One of the characters would comment that caste is a big deal in the village..even the tea cups are separate. Compared to this, madras is like heaven; I can goto any saravan bhavan, eat as much as I want, pay the bill and tip and live like a free bird. No body gives a shit about what caste I belong to :-)

The recent spate of anti-dalit atrocities (due to a intercaste marriage) sure do put things into perspective don't they? How it almost non-existent in so many things in madras in comparison.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Theo_Fidel » 19 Jun 2013 20:50

Capitalism has its flaws too or have we forgotten 2008 already!

Still it is the best system we have at present. Need to watch it like a hawk and punish it for its misdeeds as well.

The system on the ground in India is still highly racist and discriminatory.
More needs to be done to get dalits into school, end discrimination and and give them every opportunity at access.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Gus » 19 Jun 2013 21:10

Prasad wrote:The recent spate of anti-dalit atrocities (due to a intercaste marriage) sure do put things into perspective don't they? How it almost non-existent in so many things in madras in comparison.


mobility, anonymity and lack of ghettoization play a huge role. people simply don't have time for this shiite.

in dharmapuri - it was almost two enemy settlements with constant low level skirmishes between the two communities.

it is an interesting dynamics between the MBC party PMK and dalit party of DPI. Extreme polarisation is going on now more than ever before by these two. sorry for OT here.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby prahaar » 19 Jun 2013 21:39

Theo_Fidel wrote:Capitalism has its flaws too or have we forgotten 2008 already!

Still it is the best system we have at present. Need to watch it like a hawk and punish it for its misdeeds as well.

The system on the ground in India is still highly racist and discriminatory.
More needs to be done to get dalits into school, end discrimination and and give them every opportunity at access.

Sir please do not bring non-existent parameters in India as racism. In India all people are one race, if there are people who consider themselves of different race does not change the fact. Do not characterize a problem incorrectly. Use correct terms.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Dipanker » 20 Jun 2013 10:08

Indian Rupee going the Paki Rupee way, we can only thank our economist prime Minister for that.

Rupee hits all-time low of 59.94, sensex dips below 19,000 level

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby James B » 20 Jun 2013 10:25

Dipanker wrote:Indian Rupee going the Paki Rupee way, we can only thank our economist prime Minister for that.

Rupee hits all-time low of 59.94, sensex dips below 19,000 level


Its actually because of strengthening of dollar (against many currencies not just Rs) on the news that US Federal Reserve is going to taper the stimulus to US economy.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Dipanker » 20 Jun 2013 10:44

^^
Under UPA-1 and UPA-2 rule Indian Rupee has roughly lost 33% of it's value vis. a vis. US$. This the achievement of our economist PM.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby vina » 20 Jun 2013 10:57

Theo_Fidel wrote:The system on the ground in India is still highly racist and discriminatory.
More needs to be done to get dalits into school, end discrimination and and give them every opportunity at access.


At least in TN, it is so because of unscrupulous scoundrels of the *MK variety who thrive on "wedge" issues like caste and use that as a mobilizing tool. The gall /chutzpah of those scoundrels is to cloak their barbarism under the guise of progressive talk. They are oppressive and backward to the core and should be shunned for being what they are: A truly backward and medieval mindset that seeks to condemn people to the middle ages rather than forward, and aspiring to rule an exploitative, divided and destitute (both morally and materially) feudal society.

The *MK progenitors/founders (EVR and CN Annadurai etc) might spouted progressive and reformist rhetoric and thoughts(even if the underlying motivation was hate and jealousy and lack of self worth and achievement and not a feeling of genuine reform, while (I will grant )the commies and others in neighboring Kerala had the right motivations), their successors and descendents however, have sunk back to their basest instincts and worldview , wallowing in "more backward than thou" in thought, deed and indeed aspiration.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Sri » 20 Jun 2013 11:14

James B wrote:
Dipanker wrote:Indian Rupee going the Paki Rupee way, we can only thank our economist prime Minister for that.

Rupee hits all-time low of 59.94, sensex dips below 19,000 level


Its actually because of strengthening of dollar (against many currencies not just Rs) on the news that US Federal Reserve is going to taper the stimulus to US economy.


This is not too bad. 61 should be the target. Our exporters shouldn't suffer because of an overvalued currency.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Dipanker » 20 Jun 2013 18:03

India is a net importer, devaluation of Indian Rupee hurts India more than it helps.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Sri » 20 Jun 2013 18:26

^^^

We should be net exporter.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Dipanker » 20 Jun 2013 20:38

Yes it should be but it is not. In fact it has been a net importer for as long as I can remember.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby KJo » 20 Jun 2013 20:59

A big problem is that India was/is a 1 trick pony in IT. All we do is cheap outsourcing for most part because it has less risk and in the 00's had huge margin. The quality was poor overall, but we had numbers and cheaper costs. That is it.
Now things are different and we have to come up with something else. INFY is in deep trouble.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Suraj » 20 Jun 2013 22:11

IT doesn't deserve that much criticism. It provided both a multiplier generating additional economic activity, and a halo effect benefiting general economic activity. Sure, it may have been grunt work without enough move up the value chain or product development to make everyone happy. It was also not the primary driver of our development in the last decade - it's just too small a part of the overall economy. Further, IT exports do not affect the trade deficit because they are classified under services exports and not merchandise exports. They do help us bridge the overall balance of payments gap, of course.

The structural composition of our merchandise trade is and has been skewed. For long, we imported energy and high value capital goods, but exported low value items. Our move up the value chain is not fast enough, and we lack sufficient industrialization to replace the high value imports with locally manufactured machinery. While the trade ministry deserves huge kudos for the massive growth in overall trade (we used to export barely $50 billion a decade and a half ago), the policy framework has not addressed the trade gap; they need to take into account the fact that oil will cost us at least $100-150 billion a year, and we need exports to net us that much to break even on the BoP front.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Yayavar » 20 Jun 2013 22:16

vina wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote:The system on the ground in India is still highly racist and discriminatory.
More needs to be done to get dalits into school, end discrimination and and give them every opportunity at access.


At least in TN, it is so because of unscrupulous scoundrels of the *MK variety who thrive on "wedge" issues like caste and use that as a mobilizing tool. The gall /chutzpah of those scoundrels is to cloak their barbarism under the guise of progressive talk. They are oppressive and backward to the core and should be shunned for being what they are: A truly backward and medieval mindset that seeks to condemn people to the middle ages rather than forward, and aspiring to rule an exploitative, divided and destitute (both morally and materially) feudal society.

The *MK progenitors/founders (EVR and CN Annadurai etc) might spouted progressive and reformist rhetoric and thoughts(even if the underlying motivation was hate and jealousy and lack of self worth and achievement and not a feeling of genuine reform, while (I will grant )the commies and others in neighboring Kerala had the right motivations), their successors and descendents however, have sunk back to their basest instincts and worldview , wallowing in "more backward than thou" in thought, deed and indeed aspiration.


Is it any different anywhere else in India? The talk of caste is purely for ones own gain - political and economical. To avoid being named as the oppressor and gain through rules ostensibly for the downtrodden, there is an effort to be classified as backward; while the reality on the ground is different.


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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby svinayak » 22 Jun 2013 01:01


He is 40 years behind in writing this article

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby subhamoy.das » 23 Jun 2013 13:17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... et_exports

India stands in greate league of nations as a net importer and notice that most of the world's leading manufacturing nations are net importers and commodity producers are exporters. So it is not CAD which determines the value of currency, it is the quality of life which determines the value of currency in that country.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby member_20292 » 23 Jun 2013 17:35




Amartya Sen. The problem with the big guys is that they think they know it all.

Do not learn.

Amartya Da. Go back to school. Learn some more please. Be prepared to change everything about yourself :)

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby RoyG » 23 Jun 2013 21:48

For those of you that think gold will go out of style.

Rajiv Malhotra ‏@RajivMessage 5h
No need to celebrate that Indian money in Swiss banks is down. The money moved into gold saved in vaults in the same banks.
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Rajiv Malhotra ‏@RajivMessage 2h
Swiss banker told me in 2011 of many big shot Indians renting bank vaults & asking accounts to be closed and turned into gold. Preemptive?
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https://twitter.com/RajivMessage

svinayak
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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby svinayak » 23 Jun 2013 22:22

Lot of Gold being sold by Asian countries right now! They want to shoreup the economy by pumping liquidity to their economy

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Austin » 24 Jun 2013 11:43

KAMAZ in India

General Director of KAMAZ Sergey Kogoghin the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum 2013 took part in a business dialogue of "Russia in Global Agenda. Russia - India ", where, together with the Minister of Industry and Trade Minister Denis Manturovym, president of the Confederation of Indian Industry Chris Gopalakrishnanom and others discussed the cooperation between the two countries. Kogoghin talked about the pitfalls faced by KAMAZ in the Indian market.

Kogoghin noted that the truck market in India is three times higher than in Russia, so when the auto giant had decided to go to one of the BRICS countries, the choice fell on India. In February 2010, in India in Tamil Nadu was discovered JV "Kamaz Vectra Motors Limited", 51% owned by Chelninsky manufacturer.

"Spend the localization of KAMAZ trucks at facilities in India would be easy - said Kogoghin positive way. - Today we are supplying the raw materials there, collect and sell to markets in India, and at the same time conducting localization. During the year, we increased the localization of almost 50%. Of course, when we negotiate with suppliers on automotive components, we open the door not only for our company in India, and in general the whole system of KAMAZ. They are immediately concerned, because we are not talking about thousands of cars, and about 50 thousand. Businessmen, specializing in automotive components, very moving, very fast decisions. Very often we see that European companies auto components worldwide. Now this movement began. We held a conference component suppliers in Naberezhnye Chelny, arrived about 70 companies familiar with our cluster. I think we have made significant steps towards the first Indian suppliers. "

Kogoghin stopped and the problems that the company faced in the Indian market.

"When started, we, unfortunately, did not know much. When assets have been acquired, be prepared that even with any audit report're sure to find more than one skeleton in the closet, for which you will then have to pay, "- said Kogoghin smile.

"We are faced with a difference in the laws of different states. Since the industrial site - this one, and we have created a network of dealers. As a result, the tax burden on our consumers (one state) is significantly different from the tax burden in another state, we are forced to offer different terms. In our country the benefit of the federal legislation, it is clear that the regional authorities establish that the federal. "

Kogoghin also noted the high level of trade union power in the production process."If in three years and a half years of strikes - with the positive court decisions state government took the time to execute it. This led to a very great loss - he said, reminding about the strike in the Indian industry.

But, I say again, we believe that the right thing to choose this direction. "

The head of the auto giant has complained that between Russia and India is not established efficient logistics channels.

"If you take a world map and a ruler to draw a line from us to India, it can not go too far. We see that we can construct the normal logistics solutions deliver cargo from India to us and vice versa. But today, this scheme does not work, have to drive across half the globe ... What we now divert their working capital! It is desirable that transport corridor once adjusted, so we can work systematized loads. We're not talking about billions of dollars, we are talking about tens of billions of dollars. "

"I hope that we will survive in India despite the fact that there are strong unions and overcome the laws of the State", - concluded Kogoghin optimistic.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Austin » 24 Jun 2013 11:49

Seems like too many strikes and Union have kept production low below the target

IRIGC agrees to increase Kamaz truck production in India

The plant had a capacity of rolling out 5,000 trucks annually and plans were to set up production of 7,500 units of truck variants by 2013. However, due to various reasons, including red-tapism from the local authorities and the sit-in strikes by the workers of the plant in the initial stages, the production has been far lagging behind the planned target. In 2012, it set an ambitious target of producing 3,000 trucks.

In this connection, the Russian side cited the “illegal strike” by the workers of the KVML at Hosur, in February 2012, which paralyzed the production for over a month. It may be recalled when Kamaz started to reequip the plant, local trade unions demanded that it must hire 32 formerly dismissed workers, a demand which was fulfilled by the Russian producer. Late last year, the local trade union demanded that Kamaz hire another 15 workers, which was rejected by the plant’s management, after which trade union members broke into the premises of the plant to obstruct production. They seized the plant and did not allow the Kamaz to continue work.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby vina » 24 Jun 2013 13:24

Football world cup spending ? Protests and riots erupt in Brazil (imagine brazilians protesting against soccer), but to their credit they did.

Commonwealth games sending in Dilli (alone) ,entire country shuts up and acquiesces to loot and scams and , and never even questioning need for those games in the first place and the infra that got built in Dilli, which as usual ate up everyone else s tax money and burped.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Atish » 24 Jun 2013 18:16

Amartya Sen is a nincompoop, an enemy of the poor, and a curse on humanity. And I am being kind to him. He and Al Gore are the most respected and glorified A**holes on the planet.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby ramana » 27 Jun 2013 02:57

Is there a real bottom to the rupee? So what happened to economic genius PM and his dream Finance Minister? What is the chunkian spin on this?

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Pratyush » 27 Jun 2013 07:46

They are clueless.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Bade » 27 Jun 2013 08:01

Considering inflation in land prices by a factor of at least 5 or more, over the last 20 years all over the country, the absolute bottom value for the rupee is a another factor of 2 or less. The exchange rates have dropped from 1$=Rs15 to factor of 4 already to 1$=Rs60. So I do not think it will drop below 1:75 from the current 1:60.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby habal » 27 Jun 2013 11:04

Congis are weakening economy to the point of bankruptcy to force some 'reforms' onto the commons. That is the only explanation available. Economy is being kept unsteady, and ground is being prepared. Before leaving office, these team of CIA agents & ex-harvard agents of treason (mousey, chiddu, rhodes scholar) will have a last trick up their sleeves from which we would never recover. They are in place this time around to destroy India as a viable economic destination. Increase number of poor, & sustain poor at that level using NREGA to create favorable conditions for militancy or new ideology, militize the poor using naxals, etc. This is their mandate.

Earlier they opened up economy to western agents of influence, who got some important levers in stock market. These levers would be used later on to blackmail and wreck the local economy. This was given label of 'glib-eralization'. Middle-Class meanwhile remained silent spectator, and to prevent any surprises from that quarter, it was energized through non-violent revolutions to ensure that they don't turn to saffron rebellion, or energize in wrong direction and some pent up pressure created due to this negative economics was relieved. This is the Indian socio-economic scene.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Austin » 27 Jun 2013 11:41

Its better if RBI stop supporting rupee and let the reach a level where it finds its own equilibrium based on current economic scenario the country is facing. Till yesterday RBI was pumping in dollar so that Rupee does not fall below the pyscological barrier of 60 and only to find out after half an hour it crossed it.

Atleast this way RBI can stop wasting its Forex Reserves on something they cant control for long.

I feel Chidu is just being made a scapegoat to magically manage the economy that has been badly managed for couple of years and that too in election year where any FM is under pressure to spend . NREGA is also not the cause of it. PM should take the blame for it.

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Re: Indian Economy - News & Discussion 27 May 2012

Postby Sri » 27 Jun 2013 11:42

ramana wrote:Is there a real bottom to the rupee? So what happened to economic genius PM and his dream Finance Minister? What is the chunkian spin on this?


We are running 2 big Ponzi schemes. 1) Current A/c Deficit of GOI 2) Higher Imports then Exports.

The delta is usually covered by printing money. Money is printed dependent on demand. Demand is generally in form of Rupee bonds that RBI sells to banks based on their deposit and loan portfolio. There are no new loans being signed. after 2008 Real estate was a sector that generated this demand for money but it was a bubble which is on verge of collapsing. So banks are not signing new loans or generating new deposits. RBI is not slashing interest rates because it believes that high inflation will eat into the performance of these loans rather than performance gains.

The sector which can immediately create new opportunity to deploy capital is infrastructure. Which is stuck due to 2 main reasons. 1) Central Government clearance 2) Land acquisition bill

On top of it a lot of money is stuck in a large number of energy related investments because of coal problems. Already investigations are on for coal mining rights issued during UPA1. On top of it the spectrum issue which lead to retrospective tax issue has spooked new and old large foreign investors to invest anymore in India.

Also a lot of FDI that Government says India generated in equity. This is hot money which can leave very soon.

There is not much room for policy improvements. India needs good leadership and massive amount of help right now.


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