India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Jun 2011 12:30

looks like unkil is working all back channels and passages to force poodle rating on india

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 17 Jun 2011 19:17

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Econom ... epage=true

India likely to be largest economy by 2050

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Robert O. Blake on Friday said the future of Indian economy seems very bright and the country is likely to become the world’s third largest economy by 2030, and the largest by 2050.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Jun 2011 23:29

With the US in indecent haste,is replacing Pak's two destroyed Orions at Kamran,thus endangering India's security,of what real value is the so-clled Indo-US "strategic" relationship ? I would instead term it as a "sh*tty relationship"!

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 18 Jun 2011 00:27

At dawn we slept....Osamamu had his abduction experience because of some heavy duty software being run on Paki radar computers. Those Orions are to impress the natives not India.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Jun 2011 00:57

sivab wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/business/Econom ... epage=true

India likely to be largest economy by 2050

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Robert O. Blake on Friday said the future of Indian economy seems very bright and the country is likely to become the world’s third largest economy by 2030, and the largest by 2050.

And what did he say in the next breath? Be nice to TSP? Just endure their terrorist blood thrist. Just sit by and watch TSP munna get F-solas? Give them Kashmir yada yada because by 20050, India will become a superpower.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Jun 2011 01:00

Philip wrote:With the US in indecent haste,is replacing Pak's two destroyed Orions at Kamran,thus endangering India's security,of what real value is the so-clled Indo-US "strategic" relationship ? I would instead term it as a "sh*tty relationship"!

Because immediatly after the attack, CIA/Pentagon war games simulators probably kicked in and determined that instead of India TSP equal equal, India - TSP = 0.000001, and that balance needed to be restored. So now with Onions restored, its India TSP equal equal in military terms, but TSP has 1000s of pigLeTs that can be invoked and can be blamed on colonel ProHit and RSS to harass India till US & its munna TSP get what they want from India.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 18 Jun 2011 02:56

CRamS wrote:
sivab wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/business/Econom ... epage=true

India likely to be largest economy by 2050

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Robert O. Blake on Friday said the future of Indian economy seems very bright and the country is likely to become the world’s third largest economy by 2030, and the largest by 2050.
And what did he say in the next breath? Be nice to TSP?

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 18 Jun 2011 03:07

merlin wrote:
Definitely a message being sent.

Yes. the Message is, Who needs who more!

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 18 Jun 2011 04:27

@CRamS: ^^^

"And what did he say in the next breath? Be nice to TSP? Just endure their terrorist blood thrist. Just sit by and watch TSP munna get F-solas? Give them Kashmir yada yada because by 20050, India will become a superpower."

Where did he say that? I missed it in the Chindu. Can you point me to where he said that?

Thanks

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Jun 2011 07:03

CRamS wrote:
Philip wrote:With the US in indecent haste,is replacing Pak's two destroyed Orions at Kamran,thus endangering India's security,of what real value is the so-clled Indo-US "strategic" relationship ? I would instead term it as a "sh*tty relationship"!
Because immediatly after the attack, CIA/Pentagon war games simulators probably kicked in and determined that instead of India TSP equal equal, India - TSP = 0.000001, and that balance needed to be restored. So now with Onions restored, its India TSP equal equal in military terms, but TSP has 1000s of pigLeTs that can be invoked and can be blamed on colonel ProHit and RSS to harass India till US & its munna TSP get what they want from India.

This from 2005:

P-3 Orions for Pakistan

Lockheed P-3C Orion 159511 positioned on G-Row of the AMARC Process-In ramp. Following nearly ten years of inviolate storage at the base the aircraft is one of eight being reactivated following a Foreign Military Sales (FMS) agreement with Pakistan.

.........................................

There is already one person who tilts news items and repeats them ad nauseum.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jun 2011 09:37

I fail to comprehend the US's policy towards Pak.This "blow hot,blow cold" love affair i all very well if it is merely a tale of mutual fornication ,but the upshot of this depraity is always,as has been shown for 50+years,a licence to Pak to wage war against India.Right from CENTO days Pak has been the recipient of US militry largess,but the current beefing up of the Paki military by the US is simply incomprehensible especially when Pak is refusing to play ball.The US simply takes India for granted as a meek,docile "herbivore",while the rapacious "carnivorous" Pak mut be stroked and assuaged always!

This morning's paper (Hindu) has an article about the N-suppliers redrawing the rules to India's detriment despite our "clean" image.I can only come to the cnclusion that India's diplomacy has been a spectacular failure,especially in the last decade.The rot started after the demise of Rajiv Gandhi,who scored major successes in his efforts to bring peace to Lanka (which VP Singh unilaterally abandoned) and crushed the Maldives coup.The only state with whom we have decent relations in the neighbourhood today is Bangladesh,where Hasina's electoral victory has been the catalyst.In Lanka,despite cordial relations with the SLFP led got.,China and Pak have carved out immense space with oru inaction.We have huge problems with Nepal and the PRC inspired Maoists and Burma remains a potential enemy thanks to Chinese influence there.

In short,we have acted like a small weak state.A former For.Min. of a neighbouring country once told me that he was appalled the way "elephant" India diplomatically behaved like a "mouse"! He compared our efforts with that of China in agressively defending its interests, and that was before China upped the ante in recent times .If we do not warn the US that there will be a downturn in relations if it continues to support the terrorist military leadership of Pak disaster lies ahead, as a Pak, saturated with arms from east and west ,thinking itself indispensable to both China and the US,will use the opportunity to launch another war against India.The Indian miliatry machine is in dire need of modernisation with gaping holes in several critical areas.

It is in the Sino-Pak interests that India is "cut to size " once more,as we were in '62,as our economic prowess is a threat to China in the long term,we being perceived as a safer place for investment .In '62 the need was to diminsh our diplomatic and international clout especially in the former colonies and developing world/NAM etc.,which Nehru won for us.Today the need is to cut us to size as an economic power by showing us up as a weak state unable to defend itself both from internal and external threats.26/11 was part of that insidious plan.The rest is yet to unfold.The rapidly accelerating weakness of the MMS regime is giving our enemies a wider window of opportuniy.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jun 2011 10:52

NSG all set to up-end India's clean waiver

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jun 2011 11:01

abhishek_sharma wrote:NSG all set to up-end India's clean waiver

If they want us out of the ENR tent, then we should start pissing in. We should be transferring ENR technology to all those who may be interested, say Iran, Vietnam, Venezuela, Libya, Syria, etc.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 18 Jun 2011 11:10

^^ I bloody dont know why the f in God's name policy makers and dumbheads dont understand simple world rules. No one in this world absolutely no one will give up or cut their trousers to help a naked man have clothes. All they want is a servant who will be bullied into things in exchange for some tea and poncho. Give $10 billion to our nuclear industry and pose a nationwide challenge to scientists and engineers to come up with best reactor and see what marvels it produces in 5-10 years. India has thorium reserves which can make it self-sustained in electricity for hundreds of years. Meek nature of India does not command any respect anywhere in the world !

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Jun 2011 11:51

abhishek_sharma wrote:NSG all set to up-end India's clean waiver

Time for some more bangs in Pokharan. Oh wait, constable singh is in charge here

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jun 2011 14:15

Published on May 31, 2011
By Michael Auslin
The Partnership of the Future: The American Blog

After nearly three weeks in India, I came away with a clear sense that our wilder hopes for an Indo-U.S. partnership are highly premature. In the Wall Street Journal, I discuss why we should temper our expectations, but also try to figure out ways to slowly get India more engaged in the productive part of the Indo-Pacific to its east. If we focus solely on Pakistan, then we’ll likely never get a deeper relationship with New Delhi, since Washington’s fear of Islamabad’s collapse means we routinely ignore Indian concerns about the Pakistan threat. Beyond that, however, Indian policy makers and thinkers remain firmly fixed on domestic issues: developing their economy, reducing the grinding poverty that permeates the country, and keeping order in a freewheeling democratic political system. For the partnership to become real, Washington will have to focus on things that India is concerned about, and slowly work to build up trust. The pull of Nehru’s non-aligned thinking is still powerful, even if it is couched in different terms, and to expect a sudden break from the past 60 years simply because we and the Indians recognize growing challenges with China (for example) will lead to great disappointment on the U.S. side.

My comment

Your assessment on Indo-US relations is more or less correct.

The thing is India cannot look at USA as a well-meaning partner, mostly because of a history of American involvement in the region which has been counter-productive to India’s security, as well as American efforts to contain India, through instruments like Nuclear Supplier’s Group.

Even today, even after agreeing on a 123 Agreement for civilian nuclear cooperation, America spearheads a movement in NSG to constrain India from a similar treatment like the other members of NSG, by withholding ENR technologies.

Any effort by USA to curb India’s growth potential, be it by giving Pakistan anti-Indian weaponry or by constraining India’s ENR options, enrages India no end. Let’s not forget that Pakistan was 65 years ago a part of India, so India considers Pakistan still to be part of its region of influence, which has been used by external powers like UK, USA and China to contain India. So whenever USA deals with Pakistan or Afghanistan but tells Indians to keep out, it is hardly something that would ingratiate USA with India.

So those in India who understand the India-US dynamic, are not anti-American but still extremely angry at USA.

Should USA someday decide that it wants to enter into a partnership with India, where USA stops following policies antithetical to Indian interests, India would be more than happy to reciprocate, but USA has not reached that decision by far. At the moment it is ‘every man for himself’, which is not partnership.

The strategic challenges are great, it is natural for USA and India to partner, but that can happen only if USA reassesses its national interests. One national interest of USA is not to suck up to Pakistanis. Is it not?

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 18 Jun 2011 20:11

After treating the US in a cavalier way in the Fighter aircraft purchase deal, and blowing self delusional smoke like" the US needs India more than India needs US", Stop complaining that US is doing this and not doing this to India. You always can fondly remember that the US needs India more than India needing US and be happy.

India's lefties are a big counter weight to the evil Americans. The lefties will protect and defend India. That's in their nature! to fight and defend values of India.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 18 Jun 2011 20:50

abhishek_sharma wrote:NSG all set to up-end India's clean waiver

And still we believe that the Indo-US Nuclear deal was the best deal on offer or that India got a good deal. There is still time, we can still dump this deal and say good riddance.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Jun 2011 20:53

^^ Why it was the best thing since sliced bread according to our expert-on-all-things-from-procurement-to-strategy-to-economy who is now turning his kind attention to the Lokpal thread.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Jun 2011 21:27

Manny wrote:After treating the US in a cavalier way in the Fighter aircraft purchase deal, and blowing self delusional smoke like" the US needs India more than India needs US", Stop complaining that US is doing this and not doing this to India. You always can fondly remember that the US needs India more than India needing US and be happy.

India's lefties are a big counter weight to the evil Americans. The lefties will protect and defend India. That's in their nature! to fight and defend values of India.

US and pakis have much in common, as far as sense of entitlement goes.

UBanerjee · Post by **UBanerjee** » 19 Jun 2011 06:17

At the same time, we have this news:
US moves to get India into 3 exclusive N-clubs

Crucially:
More importantly, it seeks a specific exception for India so as to foreclose any assumption of creating a set of fresh criteria for future members. This was important because China has been backing the criteria-based system rather than a country-specific decision.

China is hoping the heavy lifting done by India & US on this matter can be used to get Poaks in the backdoor.

Reflecting older moves from Jan.:
India to start working with US to get into NSG

There will be a push and pull, which we should keep shaping in our favor.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 19 Jun 2011 06:25

Am sure Delhi has given enough indications of being taken in by mollifying words even in the face of detrimental actions by the amrikhans for them to think that we really are that dumb. This latest about ENR in the NSG says so coupled with talk of our becoming the biggest economy by a never-arriving 2050 or something. (To be fair though even GWB during the honeymoony 123 negotiations period was adamant about not conceding the ENR thingy, though).

So the US must think we yindians must be really dumb. Or maybe we really are that dumb, who knows....

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 19 Jun 2011 10:33

Hari Seldon wrote:(To be fair though even GWB during the honeymoony 123 negotiations period was adamant about not conceding the ENR thingy, though).

The ENR bit was never really resolved fully...What came out finally was that the US would never sell ENR tech to us, but will not prevent others from selling it either..We were quite ok with that...

The usual NPA sources are a bit abuzz with the meeting coming up, but really not with India...Seems the main jokers in the pack of the new ENR guidelines are the Latam countries as well as South Africa..

http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archiv ... -transfers

This ruckus on the "Adiitional Protocol" was created last years as wel, and didnt get passed primarily because of opposition from these countries...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Jun 2011 11:15

Manny wrote:blowing self delusional smoke like" the US needs India more than India needs US

I was watching former NSA Brent Scowcroft on C-SPAN talk about US foreign policy towards different countries. He covered the entire gamut. Not even one sentence about India. Of course, not one sentence about Germany or UK and other orieopeans too. What it means is that India, like UK and Germany is in US's hip pocket or is not just worth talking about; more likely the latter IMO. But I took comfort that he emphasized Afganisthan and Paaaaaakistaaaaaan posing challenges to US, and not India and Paaaaaakistaaaaaan

.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 19 Jun 2011 16:50

When US is screwing pakistan, most BR members are happy. But when pakis are screwing US, they wonder why the US is so dumb.

The relationship between US and Pakistan is like a homosexual gay marriage. Both screw each others behinds. But only one of them gets to be a man at one time

. Only thing is, outsiders (and not just BR members) think it is like a heterosexual marriage, and this assumption has effected their expectations of US-Pak relationship.

All you have to do understand the US-pak relationship is learn to identify who is wearing the pants at the given moment.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 20 Jun 2011 01:58

http://www.businessinsider.com/nebraska ... own-2011-6
The US Is Having A Catastrophic Nuclear Emergency In Nebraska And The Obama Administration Is Covering It Up -- Russia

(Fear Mongring)

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 20 Jun 2011 04:56

Rahul M wrote:
Manny wrote:After treating the US in a cavalier way in the Fighter aircraft purchase deal, and blowing self delusional smoke like" the US needs India more than India needs US", Stop complaining that US is doing this and not doing this to India. You always can fondly remember that the US needs India more than India needing US and be happy.

India's lefties are a big counter weight to the evil Americans. The lefties will protect and defend India. That's in their nature! to fight and defend values of India.
US and pakis have much in common, as far as sense of entitlement goes.

Like I said

You always can fondly remember that the US needs India more than India needing US and be happy.

India's lefties are a big counter weight to the evil Americans. The lefties will protect and defend India. That's in their nature! to fight and defend values of India.

No worries!

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 20 Jun 2011 05:13

CRamS wrote:
Manny wrote:blowing self delusional smoke like" the US needs India more than India needs US

I was watching former NSA Brent Scowcroft on C-SPAN talk about US foreign policy towards different countries. He covered the entire gamut. Not even one sentence about India. Of course, not one sentence about Germany or UK and other orieopeans too. What it means is that India, like UK and Germany is in US's hip pocket or is not just worth talking about; more likely the latter IMO. But I took comfort that he emphasized Afganisthan and Paaaaaakistaaaaaan posing challenges to US, and not India and Paaaaaakistaaaaaan .

So are you saying that the Sonia and MMS have sold India to the evil Americans? I am trying to understand the situation. The congress has been in power 50 out of 60 years since independence....and you seem to be alluding (If I have understood your post) now India has been sold to the Americans. So whose fault is it again?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jun 2011 06:35

do you have a point manny, other than the obvious one that godly americans are here to protect the lowly eendians and our salvation lies in falling on the feet of massa ? I don't think your recommendations will get much traction here.

as for your comments about lefties in reply to me, it only makes you look clueless.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Jun 2011 09:01

Abisheck,you have got the "point" across perfectly,(rear) spot on!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jun 2011 09:23

abhischekcc wrote:When US is screwing pakistan, most BR members are happy. But when pakis are screwing US, they wonder why the US is so dumb.

The relationship between US and Pakistan is like a homosexual gay marriage. Both screw each others behinds. But only one of them gets to be a man at one time . Only thing is, outsiders (and not just BR members) think it is like a heterosexual marriage, and this assumption has effected their expectations of US-Pak relationship.

All you have to do understand the US-pak relationship is learn to identify who is wearing the pants at the given moment.

"rear" insight into the truth. A shaft of light in a tunnel of darkness That is why Pakistan seems to roll over and then comes "back" with a bang.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 20 Jun 2011 11:33

Rahul M wrote:do you have a point manny ...

I believe Manny is showing a mirror to the jingoistic commentary often seen on BRF. I agree with him. One should not have ambiguous views about the west. Why don't folks adopt a simple one-dimensional viewpoint that the west is the enemy? What is the difference between US and TSP? On BRF it is allowed to call packees all sorts of names, but if the same is done to westerners, one gets warnings. IMO, there are some inferiority issues at play here.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jun 2011 22:18

may be there's a difference between pakis and the rest which eludes your understanding ?
BR policies reflect that. it's not 'west' per se but any non-paki. but yes, I can clearly see what inferiority issue would cause you to imagine that.

GuruPrabhu · Post by **GuruPrabhu** » 21 Jun 2011 00:56

Yes, Saar. There is no point arguing with moderators when one is on death row.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 21 Jun 2011 02:28

Manny wrote:The congress has been in power 50 out of 60 years since independence....and you seem to be alluding (If I have understood your post) now India has been sold to the Americans. So whose fault is it again?

Obviously it is the fault of Congress and Gandhi family. "The congress has been in power 50 out of 60 years since independence" and still I have to go to railway tracks every morning.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 21 Jun 2011 03:47

I would think the Govt has some power over foreign policy than someones toilet habits. But considering some Indians waiting for their fav socialist govt to come and solve all the problems for them, I wouldn't be too surprised if many are still waiting for the govt to help improve their toilet habits.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 21 Jun 2011 03:57

Consul General of India accused of keeping a mother of four as virtual slave in posh UES digs

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 21 Jun 2011 04:13

Amber G. wrote:Consul General of India accused of keeping a mother of four as virtual slave in posh UES digs

That was kind of funny to read...like in..its so bizarre....if not sad kind of way. I am telling you... these buggers...there are too many like this in high office in India.

Sheesh!

I know the younger generation in India seem to be flippant about old school thoughts... and that may not be too bad after all. Provided they don't get on the old school leftist socialistic "Waving hand at imperialists" band wagon either.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 21 Jun 2011 09:01

Amber G. wrote:Consul General of India accused of keeping a mother of four as virtual slave in posh UES digs

I'm not sure what to make of this. The state of NY seems to be going after Indian consular general with vengeance. First there was Kritika Biswas case, now this. If he is indeed guilty of mistreatment and underpaying domestic help, he should be recalled . Who remembers the Sabhanis case and their imprisonment ?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Jun 2011 10:10

How much does GoI pay this type of staff? Knowing Indian salaries, it seems like the maid/driver would be a perk of the job.