Indian Military Aviation

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Dec 2010 22:01

A certain delusional person wants the IAF to look at an article of his in a certain unnamed magazine to understand more about the J20

The only thing left for this dude is to stand at the street corner with .....

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 31 Dec 2010 18:01

chaiwallah info says that MCA actually turned into the J20
there is a secret Indian team working on this in Wuhang and Loon Gi

vic · Post by **vic** » 31 Dec 2010 20:28

Actually a massive amount of Rs 50 crores have been sanctioned for studying 90 seater RTA. IIRC the balloon bought for CWG Games was worth only Rs 70 crores. Our priorties seem to be right direction of a banana republic

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 01 Jan 2011 01:49

Lalmohan wrote:chaiwallah info says that MCA actually turned into the J20
there is a secret Indian team working on this in Wuhang and Loon Gi

Whaaa? Our MCA design team must be all CPI(M) cadres then, hainji?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 01 Jan 2011 10:17

Air Marshal Kumaria is the new Indian Air Force Western Command chief

He is a qualified weapon instructor, having undergone the QWI course in the United Kingdom and a fighter combat leader, who also served as a Directing Staff at the Tactics and Air Combat Development Establishment (TACDE).

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 01 Jan 2011 12:11

aniket wrote:my point is that wat makes the apache lethal is its sensors,electronic package but if the yankees remove components of it it will not function to fullest extent for which we are buying it.

They're not stripping the Apache off of all the electronic gizmos (if at all they do). And how do you know we need the exact same thing that the Americans are not willing to pass on?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jan 2011 12:13

cismoa does not cover things like EO sensors/radars just secure comms gear - as in the C130J I am sure a india specific set of replacement kit can be worked out. else stuff like apg79 or the centerline IRST for F-18 would not be on the mrca table.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 01 Jan 2011 22:42

Air Marshal AK Gogoi assumes charge as new Chief of SWAC

A.K.Gogoi today said the Gujarat will get a new radar within two month.

Shri Gogoi said:

“A fighter squadron has begun operations from the Phalodia airbase in Rajasthan, and we think Deesa airport in Gujarat could possibly get converted into an additional airbase for SWAC.”

Ankit

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 01 Jan 2011 23:12

dmurphy take a look at this link and after seeing tell me if this equipment is important or not for usa or india. also tell me if this equipment will be allowed to function widout interference. even if they allow it to be exported it wont be widout riders. lets say they remove it then pls tell me wat is d difference between an apache and the lch. lets face it the lch is not as good because its electronic gizmos arent as good and since because they are like the eyes and brain of armament how good is a partially blind missile ?
so why a costlier heli wen itll perform the same
http://www.guncopter.com/apache-helicopter/

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 01 Jan 2011 23:44

Gagan wrote:The longbow Apache is not as strategic a weapon system as a frontline fighter or an AWACS.
It is meant mainly for ground troops support and to take out enemy tank columns etc.

I think that India can live with US inspecting the relatively few numbers that the armed forces are procuring.

More importantly, the one thing that I have noticed and which people need to reflect on is that India is ordering military hardware from ALL US companies, leverages and pressure points are being built within the US defence industry.

Someone said that the US is run by the Military-Industrial complex and that they wield enormous power. Interesting to see how this will play out when India needs some solid backing in the US congress.

JMT

I cannot find the link but I do remember Sen. John Cornyn of TX, being surprised by the questions at a Veterans of Foreign Wars gathering in some remote TX town during his 2006 reelection campaign. He said most of the questions were about the India nuke deal and whether he was in favor of it. Now, these guys usually are not even aware of where India is and so the questions came as surprise but not so much since LM had been there....that's the power of the MIC.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 01 Jan 2011 23:56

Air Marshal NAK Browne takes over as vice chief from Air Marshal Barbora who retired yesterday. Shall miss some of the latter's plain talking.

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 03 Jan 2011 09:39

Is the air force base in Tajikistan operational ?
There were reports of it housing mig 29

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 04 Jan 2011 07:45

India Requests Support for Direct Commercial Sale of AH-64D Block III APACHE Helicopters

If the Government of India selects the Boeing-U.S. Army proposal, the Government of India will request a possible sale of
-- 50 T700-GE-701D engines
-- 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars
-- 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers
-- 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles
-- 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles
-- 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles
-- 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors
-- Rockets, training and dummy missiles
-- 30mm ammunition
-- Transponders and Simulators
-- Global positioning system/inertial navigation systems
-- Communication equipment
-- Spare and repair parts; tools and test equipment,
-- Support equipment, repair and return support
-- Personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documentation,
-- U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services
-- Other related elements of logistics support to be provided in conjunction with a proposed direct commercial sale of 22 AH-64D Block III APACHE Helicopters.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jan 2011 09:32

I read somewhere based on afghan war initial issues with engine thrust, the apache now features a more powerful engine that permits atleast slash and run attacks (Mi35 style) upto around 15,000ft ? this should be adequate for use in the tibetan region which avg around 10,000ft ASL.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 04 Jan 2011 11:43

Alternatively we could look at the X2 & X3 approaches being taken by Sikorsky & Eurocopter respectively. The machines IMO ought to ba able to operate in the environment mentioned above comfortably.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Jan 2011 15:56

Backdoor method to acquire the Apache! Obtain the missiles first and then the dice is heavily loaded in favour of the US machine!
It looks like Dr.Singh is fufilling at supersonic speed his obligations to Uncle Sam before his sad second term ends in disgrace.

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article ... id=4764141

India to get attack chopper, high-tech radar from US
New Delhi: The US administration has cleared two more missiles - the anti-tank Hellfire air-to-surface missile and the air-to-air Stinger anti-aircraft missile - and a highly sophisticated combat radar for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The missiles, and the Longbow Fire Control Radar (FCR) which operates them, are part of the weapons package on board the Apache 64D Block III attack helicopter that is under consideration for acquisition by India.

The Apache helicopter is built by Boeing, the Hellfire by Lockheed Martin, the Longbow FCR by Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, and the Stinger by Raytheon, all of them global majors in military industrial technology.

Apache is one of the two combat helicopters that have competed last year for IAF's global tender for 22 combat helicopters to replace and update its inventory of old, Soviet-vintage Mi-35 (basically Mi-24) helicopters. The other helicopter in competition is the Russian Mi-28.

All field and weapon trials for both these helicopters are over and a decision is likely within the first quarter of this year, according to India Strategic defence magazine (www.indiastrategic.in).

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 05 Jan 2011 17:31

Philip wrote:Backdoor method to acquire the Apache! Obtain the missiles first and then the dice is heavily loaded in favour of the US machine!
It looks like Dr.Singh is fufilling at supersonic speed his obligations to Uncle Sam before his sad second term ends in disgrace.

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article ... id=4764141

Are the missiles and radar being ordered prior to Boeing winning the contract? My impression was that a prospective sale was being authorized not an actual one. Rather than the aircraft being ordered and then the US Congress deliberating on its sale, they've taken the opposite and more sensible approach. The only problem really is that the media has decided to pick up on this update and run it like a major development.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Jan 2011 18:11

Philip wrote: Backdoor method to acquire the Apache! Obtain the missiles first and then the dice is heavily loaded in favour of the US machine! It looks like Dr.Singh is fufilling at supersonic speed his obligations to Uncle Sam before his sad second term ends in disgrace.

The missiles, and the Longbow Fire Control Radar (FCR) which operates them, are part of the weapons package on board the Apache 64D Block III attack helicopter that is under consideration for acquisition by India.

<SNIP>

How about not reading conspiracy theory and sell-out in every bit of purchase from US of A?

How about slowly reading the bolded part of your own report and trying to understand the import of the same? Where does it say that Hellfire and Stingers and FCR are being purchased independent of AH-64? What will IA do with Hellfire and Stinger and FCR sans the chopper? Mount them on top of tin-cans to guide Hellfires? Or for the future FMBT? I think not.

This is what else has been okayed by US Congress:

DSCA has sought congressional approval to clear: A possible sale of 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 Hellfire Longbow missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 Hellfire II missiles, 245 Stinger Block I-92H missiles, and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets, training and dummy missiles, 30mm ammunition, transponders, simulators, global positioning system/inertial navigation systems, communication equipment, spare and repair parts; tools and test equipment, support equipment, repair and return support, personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documentation, U.S. government and contractor engineering and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics support to be provided in conjunction with a Apache helicopters

Also, does not the US administration clear each and every bit of weapon package? Did not US DOD clear the AESA on F-16 and F/A-18 for MMRCA seperately?

At times your posts border on being ridiculous.

Wayne Arnold · Post by **Wayne Arnold** » 05 Jan 2011 19:00

but how did they get TAA approval??

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Jan 2011 19:13

the apache looks like a good bet for this deal and I do hope they take a very close look at the 701D engines. we will need something like that or better for the medium helos.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 05 Jan 2011 19:15

they want the block III for its network centric capabilities including its ability to control UAVs. In fact that is a big consideration.

The air to air capability is also attractive again from the UAV perspective.

But as always with Yamriki weapons the price is high.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jan 2011 19:18

the turbomeca makila2a powering the EC725 is slightly more powerful @ 2100hp vs 1900hp for the 701D. not sure if its heavier. either of these would be a good fit for the 10t medium helo by HAL.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Jan 2011 19:35

the GE T700 has more than one version and one of those, the one used in the NH90 produces ~2100 shp.
methinks it can be tweaked by cunning SDRE dhoti-shiverers once they get the hang of it.

the 701D is rated at 2000 shp btw, not 1900.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Jan 2011 19:51

Given the limited number of heavy gunships planned for now, it is imperative that we get maximum bang for the buck.

There will be heavy demand placed on those Gunships - we need something with max. uptime and very good/latest gizmos. Each sortie needs to count for maximum result. And IMO, nothing compares to khan's toys in these arenas......from hellfire to stinger to FCR......

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Jan 2011 19:55

there are even more powerful versions of that engine. http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscent ... 41104.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jan 2011 21:54

how about equipping all 22 with longbow radar but mounting hellifires & that radio modem on WSI dhruv to permit each longbow to function as a 'leader' for a formation of say 4-5 WSI dhruv linked into its feed and able to unleash say 8 hellfires each?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 05 Jan 2011 22:01

Why not have the longbow FCR integrated with the LCH?

JimmyJ · Post by **JimmyJ** » 05 Jan 2011 22:03

Hey, I saw a small plane doing some flights around Bangalore yesterday and today evening. It was white and looked like having engine close to its tails.

Was it Saras?

Sorry but I am a bad plane spotter

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Jan 2011 22:26

^^^Saras has a T-shaped tail and 2 props in pusher configuration (i.e. facing backwards) - that makes it stand out (looks and if you hear it, noise-wise). Typically most aircraft models with engines near the tail will be jets and there are quite a few of them.

JimmyJ · Post by **JimmyJ** » 05 Jan 2011 22:34

Got a view from the side for a moment. This just went with a sudden boom, I was near in a housing colony and all looked shocked into the sky. Just managed to peek at it. May be some one could spot it again tomorrow. Will try to get a better look if it flies again tomorrow.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Jan 2011 00:49

Usually props don't go with a boom, they go with a buzz

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Jan 2011 00:54

could it have been this ? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... model1.JPG

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jan 2011 02:06

LCA or Mig21 bis. Where in blr? [assumption: boom = a/c flying at low alt perhaps at mach 1]

/sonic boom!

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 06 Jan 2011 07:34

India may go in for 6 more C-130Js this year

New Delhi could sign a follow-on order for Lockheed Martin's C-130J Hercules transport this year.

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 06 Jan 2011 09:20

Indian Navy to Commission Searcher, Heron UAV Squadron at Porbandar, Gujarat

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 06 Jan 2011 10:15

Philip wrote:Backdoor method to acquire the Apache! Obtain the missiles first and then the dice is heavily loaded in favour of the US machine!
It looks like Dr.Singh is fufilling at supersonic speed his obligations to Uncle Sam before his sad second term ends in disgrace.

Compared with some "radio controlled" anti-armor missile that the Russians are offering on their helicopter and the Euro's PARS 3 which costs as much as 10 what the hellfire.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2011 10:17

there are plenty of white colour RAW/BSF legacy types flying in and out of blr.

hellfires are good to go - cost is heavily amortized by 1000s of dead pakistanis in its field trials program which is always ongoing via droneacharya....

JimmyJ · Post by **JimmyJ** » 06 Jan 2011 11:42

Rahul M wrote:could it have been this ? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... model1.JPG

Nope it was bigger. I was near Kormangala. Good thing is I just bought a mobile with a camera on it. Will keep a better watch today.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jan 2011 18:21

JimmyJ wrote:Hey, I saw a small plane doing some flights around Bangalore yesterday and today evening. It was white and looked like having engine close to its tails.

Was it Saras?

Sorry but I am a bad plane spotter

If it was white, flying like a maniac and had an engine at the back it would be a Rutan Varieze or equivalent that has been buzzing the Golf course of late. I checked to see if it might be a UAV - but I could see a cockpit. It looked like this didn't it?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Jan 2011 18:25

SaiK wrote:LCA or Mig21 bis. Where in blr? [assumption: boom = a/c flying at low alt perhaps at mach 1]

/sonic boom!

Bangalore has become boring. Saw a Tejas today after a long time. I only see MiG 21s, the odd Jag, Kirans and the odd Hawk. Occasionally Dhruv. No LCH. An-32 and unspecified small civilian types that I often am unable to identify unless I do back to the books.