Telangana Monitor

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Jan 2011 19:47

Ramanaji,

Please look at various converging points in the simulation and see SKC recommendations

Our simulation demonstrates that

- Telangana issue is purely a political issue
- Media, and BRF posters presented an nearly-accurate picture of the real-world sentiments (That is the basis for my inputs)
- We understand the model fairly; so we can use it optimally
- The model works in its basic form

My recommendations/predictions in view of SKC report -

* It is in the best interests of Telugus to have two/three separate states. It offers more influence at the federal level (Imagine Telangana, Andhra and Rayalaseema go as separate entities to Bachavat committee for Krishna waters)

* But it should be achieved by people agitation. KCR must continue his agitation for separate Telangana. I think a separate Telangana state will form in 2014-2016.

* KCR must be careful of his strategy to invite Congress/TDP leaders to resign their positions and join TRS. He will face party splits in future Telangana state. Instead he should build strong/alternative leadership thru TRS or BJP (which supported a separate Telangana state unconditionally). He should aim to win at least 10 MP seats and 70-80 MLA seats in next elections, whenever they come.

KSKumar · Post by **KSKumar** » 06 Jan 2011 20:12

The one thing I would not do is blame the "Indian Bank Scamster" and fanciful notions of setting the neighbor's house afire. He didn't campaign on that plank. Naidu and YSR did. Blame on the voters who voted for the guys who campaigned on that plank!

Please, this is ridiculous. When KCR went on fast, he had all of 10 MLAs. The Congress that fought the 2009 elections, dropped Telegana from its manifesto and still won a majority in Telengana.

You have no clue about the dynamics that resulted in this mess. There was no need for the Dec. 9 2009 declaration. The flames that KCR tried to fan over the last 9 years previously had died down to embers, but were suddenly fanned into a roaring flame by the devious scamster.

Sweeping all this under the carpet and saying the scamster is not to blame is utterly foolish.

If my house can be burnt down, so can those of the others.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 06 Jan 2011 20:27

RamaY, I am surprised by your conjectures. What is the basis for having 2 to 3 Telugu-speaking states? Because KCR wants Telangana?

Also, these multiple Telugu states need not have the same stance with respect to water sharing, such as the Krishna tribunal. It is more than likely that they will have three difference stances.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Jan 2011 21:02

Sarma ji,

I have been a Samaikyandhra guy all along. Even now I prefer a united AP state. But I see the following problems with status-quo:

1. KCR/TRS's sole aim is Telangana state. In that they have support from two quarters - BJP and Naxals (strange bed fellows). BJP is a matured political party and will not attempt anything stupid. But one cannot say that about Naxals and their OU student organizations. It will be a long-term loss to Hyderabad area. I would put the total economic loss to Hyderabad (alone) and thru that to AP at ~30-50,000 Crores in the past year alone. Per my sources Hyderabad lost precious 2-5 years in the past 12 months in investments, progress and industries.

2. Rayalaseema leadership is in complete disarray between YSJ and INC. They don't have any option except these two sides and both of them are detrimental to a comprehensive progress in AP. We have seen what happened with YSR's jalayajnam and YSJ's loot. I am seriously concerned about their leadership.

3. Andhra leadership has three options TDP, INC, and PRP. Unfortunately PRP and INC are in collusion to destroy TDP there. This region can develop irrespective of its leadership, IMO.

If Telangana people want a separate state (Which I am convinced after recent sub-elections) then it should be considered. And KCR/TRS are trying to use democratic approach to achieve that, unlike INC.

Yes, all three regions will compete for Krishna waters, between themselves and with K'taka and Maharashtra. I think the combined share of AP will be more if we have three distinct players, instead of one. I have to validate it though.

I also think it will bring more power to Telugu people at the national stage as we can have 3 groups of 12-15 MPs. And I hope that such a setup will be more potent than current 35 INC MP's not getting a single key portfolio in UPA II.

Again, these are my personal thoughts. If someone asks me to decide I will try to keep AP united under able leadership, but away from current INC setup.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 06 Jan 2011 21:07

RamaY garu,

I know. Regarding Telangana people wanting a separate state, that sentiment is strong really only in 5 districts. The support is neutral to lukewarm in the other 5 districts. SKC report states as much. So, on what basis again?

All these years, KCR and other fanatics fan the sentiment through slanderous and malicious propaganda. Now that this propaganda has been debunked, should we succumb to his tactics?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2011 21:15

RamaY wrote:Sarma ji,

I have been a Samaikyandhra guy all along. Even now I prefer a united AP state. But I see the following problems with status-quo:

1. KCR/TRS's sole aim is Telangana state. In that they have support from two quarters - BJP and Naxals (strange bed fellows). BJP is a matured political party and will not attempt anything stupid. But one cannot say that about Naxals and their OU student organizations. It will be a long-term loss to Hyderabad area. I would put the total economic loss to Hyderabad (alone) and thru that to AP at ~30-50,000 Crores in the past year alone. Per my sources Hyderabad lost precious 2-5 years in the past 12 months in investments, progress and industries.

2. Rayalaseema leadership is in complete disarray between YSJ and INC. They don't have any option except these two sides and both of them are detrimental to a comprehensive progress in AP. We have seen what happened with YSR's jalayajnam and YSJ's loot. I am seriously concerned about their leadership.

3. Andhra leadership has three options TDP, INC, and PRP. Unfortunately PRP and INC are in collusion to destroy TDP there. This region can develop irrespective of its leadership, IMO.

If Telangana people want a separate state (Which I am convinced after recent sub-elections) then it should be considered. And KCR/TRS are trying to use democratic approach to achieve that, unlike INC.

Yes, all three regions will compete for Krishna waters, between themselves and with K'taka and Maharashtra. I think the combined share of AP will be more if we have three distinct players, instead of one. I have to validate it though.

I also think it will bring more power to Telugu people at the national stage as we can have 3 groups of 12-15 MPs. And I hope that such a setup will be more potent than current 35 INC MP's not getting a single key portfolio in UPA II.

Again, these are my personal thoughts. If someone asks me to decide I will try to keep AP united under able leadership, but away from current INC setup.

After SKC report, Telangana getting Hyderabad is very less likely. UT or some other mechanism is necessary. SKC is not in favor of giving Hyderabad due to National security issue also.

As coming to the Rayalaseema. YSJ and INC may seem in loggerheads but when it comes to T stand RS is strong bunch united. There is also Rayala Telangana thrown for fun

Now you have 5 parties to negotiate - RS, T, CAndhra, Hyderabad, South T. Big rider of all No T without all regions agreeing. Negotiations! Negotiations!

This also screws up Article 3 because going out of SKC report will invite court cases saying "Due process" is shunted as SKC comes under the due process. So split Negotiations need to happen in SKC context.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 06 Jan 2011 21:25

SandeepA wrote:If a SRC is needed then new states must be formed with administrative ease as the sole basis
Maybe aroud 40 states with average size of Orissa and 6 city-states viz Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata, Ahmedabad, Bangalore to cater to the aspirations of the urban populace

Given that the country is trying to industrialise in one or two generations, I think there's merit in creating a state out of every city above 2 million people (20 or 25 such states). They should be chartered with creating enough infrastructure to accomodate a huge influx of the rural population such that each city-state can accomodate 20-40 million people.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Jan 2011 21:25

Sarma-ji, ShyamSP-ji!

My biggest worry is this.

INC will form a T-committee and allocates say Rs 10-15,000 crores. Since TRS will not accept this, this committee will be mainly populated with INC-T leaders. These worthless guys (as proven by their theatrics, election performances) will cobble up those funds and submit 10-12K crore to INC party funds for 2014 elections.

AP govt will be kept alive thru KKR or another XXR till 2014.

Current impasse continues while the overall state suffers another 3 years of mis-governance. With that we will be looking at a minimum of Rs 10000 to 20000 per capita economic loss for the entire state under this administration; which is $250-500 GDP loss for Andhra.

We can't trust INC will not give a separate T-state in 2014, with or without Hyderabad.

In what way a T-state (even without Hyderabad) is good for Telugus?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2011 21:36

RamaY wrote:Sarma-ji, ShyamSP-ji!

My biggest worry is this.

INC will form a T-committee and allocates say Rs 10-15,000 crores. Since TRS will not accept this, this committee will be mainly populated with INC-T leaders. These worthless guys (as proven by their theatrics, election performances) will cobble up those funds and submit 10-12K crore to INC party funds for 2014 elections.

AP govt will be kept alive thru KKR or another XXR till 2014.

Current impasse continues while the overall state suffers another 3 years of mis-governance. With that we will be looking at a minimum of Rs 10000 to 20000 per capita economic loss for the entire state under this administration; which is $250-500 GDP loss for Andhra.

We can't trust INC will not give a separate T-state in 2014, with or without Hyderabad.

In what way a T-state (even without Hyderabad) is good for Telugus?

The basis that T-demand was pounded on was thrown out by SKC. United Andhra folks won't be quite as neglect and under development would have been weak points on their side if proven otherwise.

http://newsofap.com/newsofap-30412-21-s ... etail.html

The Committee did not find any real evidence of any major neglect by the state government in matters of
overall economic development. However, there are somecontinuing concerns regarding public employment, education, and water andirrigation, which have been dealt with in the respective Chapters of theReport.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jan 2011 21:40

KSKumar wrote:Please, this is ridiculous. When KCR went on fast, he had all of 10 MLAs. The Congress that fought the 2009 elections, dropped Telegana from its manifesto and still won a majority in Telengana.

Oh, but Congress and TRS fought together with Telengana very much on the manifesto and wiped out Naidu! It was on the manifesto alright.

Okay, 2nd term, YSR/Cong won without the T word on the manifesto, but the Congress has been thumped in all the local elections after that in Telengana.

You have no clue about the dynamics that resulted in this mess. There was no need for the Dec. 9 2009 declaration.

The flames that KCR tried to fan over the last 9 years previously had died down to embers, but were suddenly fanned into a roaring flame by the devious scamster.

Root cause of the flare up was that YSR died in the crash. He basically was the one who sat on it and kept the flames down. With him gone I think there is really no "Pan Andhra" figure to keep it done. It all became a one man and when he went to the great beyond, it fell apart.

If my house can be burnt down, so can those of the others.

Relax!. Your house is not burning even if T happens or even if other states split. It is a non issue . Reorgs happened umpteen times . Earlier KA, TN, KL, AP, MH and GJ came about Assam was split into multiple states in NE, Punjab, Haryana, HP were formed and more recently Jharkhand, Chattisgarh,Uttaranchal etc came into being. None of this resulted in anything burning.

I really dont see what is the big problem in this. It is like saying that since Uttaranchal was formed, someone from Dehradun can no longer go to Lucknow/Kanpur or viceversa! It really makes no difference whatsoever!.

There are multiple Hindi speaking states. So what if there is two states that speak Telugu ?

Of course, if the coastal money invested in shady schemes and avenues in Hyd (such schemes simply about in massive quantities , lets face it) and the fear is that the political cover for that will be blown in Hyderabad once T comes about, then it is a very different point.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2011 21:43

^^^ If TRS does not participate in the well funded T Committee, still Telagana benefits no? The INC-T people are still Telangana people no?

I do not like a divison of Telugu people now or ever. After the Tughlaq invasion, Telugu speaking people got separated and scattered all over South India and Central India. Our language was taken and new identities created over centuries. I believe that Telugu/Andhra desa/country is the heartland of Central and South India. From Maratha, parts of Southern Gujarat, Karnataka, Malwa, Cuttack, North TN are all Andhra/Madhya desa. In the next 200 years it will all come together and bring back Vijayanagara Viabhavam.

So I would do what it takes to address just Telangana sentiment without rancour.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Jan 2011 21:56

ramana wrote:I do not like a divison of Telugu people now or ever. After the Tughlaq invasion, Telugu speaking people got separated and scattered all over South India and Central India.

People have been mobile for millenia! That is how it is. Look at the huge number of folks at the TANA meetings. How much Telugu will they be after 3 generations (look at all the indian communities in places like Fiji, S.Africa, Carribean, Guyana etc, many with a big Telugu component) to know how it will look like. In N.America etc, doubt there will be a distinct subculture/population in 4th generation. So relax. Nothing much can be done about it. It is natural and healthy!

In the next 200 years it will all come together.

True. In many cases it already has, but not in a form that is easy to predict now.

So I would do what it takes to address just Telangana sentiment without rancour.

It is a non issue. It is some politico monkeys jumping up and down and being a nuisance. It will have zero effect on the ground. Also, even if I were a coastal dude with ill gotten/black/whatever wealth invested in Hyd and need political cover, I wouldn't be too bothered. The new dispensation too will need to make their share of their loot and keep the cash flowing. Money knows no color or ethnicity or divisions. It will be business as usual. Relax. All peace in the world onree

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2011 22:12

vina wrote:Relax!. Your house is not burning even if T happens or even if other states split. It is a non issue . Reorgs happened umpteen times . Earlier KA, TN, KL, AP, MH and GJ came about Assam was split into multiple states in NE, Punjab, Haryana, HP were formed and more recently Jharkhand, Chattisgarh,Uttaranchal etc came into being. None of this resulted in anything burning.

I really dont see what is the big problem in this. It is like saying that since Uttaranchal was formed, someone from Dehradun can no longer go to Lucknow/Kanpur or viceversa! It really makes no difference whatsoever!.

There are multiple Hindi speaking states. So what if there is two states that speak Telugu ?

Of course, if the coastal money invested in shady schemes and avenues in Hyd (such schemes simply about in massive quantities , lets face it) and the fear is that the political cover for that will be blown in Hyderabad once T comes about, then it is a very different point.

I don't see any issue reorgs are done with SRC that is something United Andhra folks were asking. If India wants to create N Telugu states there is no problem given it is properly done and with agreements among all.

T-demand is accusatory demand (i.e you screwed us so we need state). You are missing that.

If National integrity and developments are reasons for states, there are better ways to do it.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 06 Jan 2011 23:06

ShyamSP wrote:The basis that T-demand was pounded on was thrown out by SKC. United Andhra folks won't be quite as neglect and under development would have been weak points on their side if proven otherwise.

http://newsofap.com/newsofap-30412-21-s ... etail.html

The Committee did not find any real evidence of any major neglect by the state government in matters of
overall economic development. However, there are somecontinuing concerns regarding public employment, education, and water andirrigation, which have been dealt with in the respective Chapters of theReport.

Looks like Payyavula Keshav, the first MLA to resign after Chidu first announcement, will pound on false propaganda by TRS/KCR based on stats from SKC report.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOeUuaC7hUM

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2011 23:42

Sarma wrote:RamaY, I am surprised by your conjectures. What is the basis for having 2 to 3 Telugu-speaking states? Because KCR wants Telangana?

Also, these multiple Telugu states need not have the same stance with respect to water sharing, such as the Krishna tribunal. It is more than likely that they will have three difference stances.

Sarma garu, Another way of saying is the three regions need a say in their own development to create sense of belonging. I would support regional councils with financial powers to spend the funds allocated by the Legislative Assy.

The SKC stats show there is a severe need to spread development in all there regions on a fast track basis.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 06 Jan 2011 23:50

ramana wrote:^^^ If TRS does not participate in the well funded T Committee, still Telagana benefits no? The INC-T people are still Telangana people no?

I do not like a divison of Telugu people now or ever. After the Tughlaq invasion, Telugu speaking people got separated and scattered all over South India and Central India. Our language was taken and new identities created over centuries. I believe that Telugu/Andhra desa/country is the heartland of Central and South India. From Maratha, parts of Southern Gujarat, Karnataka, Malwa, Cuttack, North TN are all Andhra/Madhya desa. In the next 200 years it will all come together and bring back Vijayanagara Viabhavam.

So I would do what it takes to address just Telangana sentiment without rancour.

There have been multiple states(non-telugu) even before Tughlaq invasion. The rashtrakutas, chalukyas, hoysalas etc were all non-telugu dynasties that occupied significant portions of land at different times in history. And Vijayanagara too wasn't an exclusive telugu dynasty.

Pardon my saying so, but for an admin professing to be for united India and indic thought, you are very chauvinistic about Telugu and Telugu pride. Many kings in India supported multiple languages and had litterateurs of different languages in their court, especially in S India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2011 23:55

Telugu is new identity. All those kings were what led to Telugu. And Vijayanagar was not a Telugu Kingdom.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 06 Jan 2011 23:59

vina wrote: Of course, if the coastal money invested in shady schemes and avenues in Hyd (such schemes simply about in massive quantities , lets face it) and the fear is that the political cover for that will be blown in Hyderabad once T comes about, then it is a very different point.

vina wrote: Also, even if I were a coastal dude with ill gotten/black/whatever wealth invested in Hyd and need political cover, I wouldn't be too bothered. The new dispensation too will need to make their share of their loot and keep the cash flowing.

vina,
What really is your agenda here?

Mods,
Please take note.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Jan 2011 00:00

The committee's first recommendation is to establish regional councils while keeping the state united.

The second option, in a cant-but position is to split the state. And SKC provided ample details on the impact of such divisive strategy.

+1 Ramanaji on Andhra identity. I recently read summary of a book on Andhra/Tamil-nadu history >> story of Raja Raja Narendra. All those dynasties have common Andhra roots.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 07 Jan 2011 00:27

Rejection of the SKC report by the T-fanatics betrays their hypocrisy. Had the same committee come out with option 5 being their first preference, they would've celebrated it throughout the night. Now that the committee has put paid to all their malicious and slanderous propaganda of five decades, they don't have any straws to hang on to.

Madhu Yashki is still talking the "dochukunnaru" language with a straight face, and this guy is supposed to be a lawyer, one who is supposed to uphold the truth.

Chidambaram and the UPA government have only 2 real options: options 5 and 6 of the SKC report, with option 6 being the first preference. There is no way any UPA ally is going to agree to the tabling of T-resolution in the parliament, now that the parda fash is complete.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Jan 2011 00:30

I think they will try option 6 for a while. My guess is till 2014 as INC is in power in AP. Option 5 will be validated thru 2014 elections.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 07 Jan 2011 00:44

RamaY garu: I am more optimistic. You seem to be overwhelmed by the T sentiment. The report clearly says it is most prevalent among 5 districts. Remember these options are not simply temporary fixes to be checked out for a few years. The committee feels these are long term options.

I feel that UPA will quickly move to form statutory Regional Councils with adequate financial and legislative powers. Also, who knows what will happen 3.5 years down the line. I believe any T impact will be felt in the 10 hardcore T parliament seats (to borrow politicsparty guy's analysis).

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 07 Jan 2011 01:03

ramana wrote: I do not like a divison of Telugu people now or ever. After the Tughlaq invasion, Telugu speaking people got separated and scattered all over South India and Central India. Our language was taken and new identities created over centuries. I believe that Telugu/Andhra desa/country is the heartland of Central and South India. From Maratha, parts of Southern Gujarat, Karnataka, Malwa, Cuttack, North TN are all Andhra/Madhya desa. In the next 200 years it will all come together and bring back Vijayanagara Viabhavam.

So I would do what it takes to address just Telangana sentiment without rancour.

If that is the case, then so can Tamilians "claim" so many things. Tamilians can claim South Andhra bordering TN were traditional tamil strong holds. Tiru Malai (a.k.a Tirumala ) is part and parcel of Tamil heritage and tamilians were a big stake holder in the region. One could argue if not for Ramanujacharya then Tirupati would have been next to nothing.

But a cursory knowledge of our history will tell us how people in the past have evolved, united and split for varying reasons. We owe it to each other for having survived for so long. Much of the Hindus in the deep South owe it to Vijayanagar Empire and other stalwarts from the current AP and KA region to have fought Islamic hordes.

But such discussions get us no where. One has to acknowledge the fact that our identities have evolved over several centuries. And sub-cultures have been influenced by each other. There is no getting away from. All dynasties struck marriages to keep power and strategies in place. People moved within the sub-continent.

Time and time again, tamilians get all the grief every where quarter when some political parties express chauvinistic tendencies or tamilians want to preserve their language, and yet you are doing the very same thing here. But I am sure you will not get much grief though.

A state's bifurcation is emotional no doubt, after all it is just not resources that are involved. It is human past, present and future that is involved. So extra-ordinary precautions should be taken; and States should not be split just because a rogue MLA or MP with a loudspeaker enacts a fast-unto-death-drama. But States can be split if there are impartial studies done by the relevant experts. It takes scores of scholars and professionals from varied fields to give the pros and cons.

Ramana garu, you are a person who I respect and admire; your post is deeply disturbing to say the least.

Added: Ramanujacharya would not have shined, if he did not run from the tamil kings into the hands of Kannada kings, who protected him. The point is we all share so much history and have helped each other in the past and present. It will continue in the future too.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 07 Jan 2011 01:06

@Sarma

For past one year we have seen T-vadis doing false propaganda. Now United Andhra vadis need to do reverse on them. If media is also effective in questioning T-vadis based on stats from SKC report as it forms basis for discussions into the future, people will slowly realize the weaknesses in T-arguments and rational bunch will move away.

Winners in this T-experiment I believe are:

Winners:
KCR
United-vadis/Lagadapati/Kavuri/Payyavula/JC
Jagan/CM KKR
UA-Congress
MIM
Greater Hyderabad
Gaddar

Losers:
BJP
T-vadis
T-Congress/KK/Yaskhi

Survivors:
Chiru despite electoral loses
TDP

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jan 2011 01:07

SwamyG noted.

Language is a new identity. It can divide or unify.

Tamil has both language and culture identity. Unfortunately Andhras have Telugu or Andhra/Telangana/Rayalseema identity.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 07 Jan 2011 01:10

SwamyG wrote:
Ramana garu, you are a person who I respect and admire; your post is deeply disturbing to say the least.

For Me too

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 07 Jan 2011 01:17

SwamyG wrote:
ramana wrote: I do not like a divison of Telugu people now or ever. After the Tughlaq invasion, Telugu speaking people got separated and scattered all over South India and Central India. Our language was taken and new identities created over centuries. I believe that Telugu/Andhra desa/country is the heartland of Central and South India. From Maratha, parts of Southern Gujarat, Karnataka, Malwa, Cuttack, North TN are all Andhra/Madhya desa. In the next 200 years it will all come together and bring back Vijayanagara Viabhavam.

So I would do what it takes to address just Telangana sentiment without rancour.
If that is the case, then so can Tamilians "claim" so many things. Tamilians can claim South Andhra bordering TN were traditional tamil strong holds. Tiru Malai (a.k.a Tirumala ) is part and parcel of Tamil heritage and tamilians were a big stake holder in the region. One could argue if not for Ramanujacharya then Tirupati would have been next to nothing.

Tamils can claim whole Andhra * not Tirumalai. One note is Tirumalai area was actually Telugus ruled by Yadavas. Tamils were "migrants" as Ramanuja brought Visistadwaita movement there. (Iyengar is Tamil/Telugu corruption of Ayya Garu meaning Respectable Arya).

* Renati Cholas, Simhapuri Cholas, Vengi/Velanati Cholas covered most of AP except West Telangana which was under Chalukyas.

Batukamma that T-vadis claim is theirs actual has origins traced to Vengi Cholas as it was celebration of birth of Chola princess.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 07 Jan 2011 01:24

The basic principle of language identity to bind people was already vindicated and its success was visible for the last 60 years. But it doesn't mean we need to dig deep into history and redraw the borders.

I suggest we stop this unnecessary Jingoistic discussion between Tamil and Telugu and get back to Telangana monitor.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 07 Jan 2011 01:24

ShaymSP: So what does Tirumalai mean in Telugu, huh? My point is, yes it is emotional but if it makes sense to split the state then split. This is not a pissing contest, for crying out loud. Don't make it that.

The moment, any two South Indians thinks they do not have any shared history, it is an additional death knell for the country. So is the case for any two Indians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iyengar

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 07 Jan 2011 01:56

For me too Ramana Sir,

Vijayanagara Empire is a Telugu one at least up to Sangama and Saluwa kings. Tuluva ( to which Sri Krishna Deve Raya belongs) may not, but I am not sure. But all their main court poets are Telugu. Araveedu kings are all withdrawn to Chandragiri and Penukonda and their families like in AP even now. But todays regional language based divisions are not there then and these kings developed all the people. They are pride to all Induc people.

Telugu identity may be recent for with a thousand year old one but Andra identity goes to long back to almost start of historical times of Bharat. So if some one says "Andhra Bhago" slogan and limits andhra word only to present day costal AP it is painfull. Further the identity of Rayalaseema or Telangana are not much so difforent from Andhra identiy. Telangana is a persian word for areas of Telugu people and not some thing new. Warangal kings are all called themselves as Andradesha Dhisha and the identity of Andra used for Telangana regions also from the start of Telugu times.

People may ready my Teluguroots.com for more information with historical back ground and other things with facts and figures. Incidently it is run by a NRI from present day Telangana areas.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jan 2011 02:04

Ok Lets get back to the thread title. Sorry for the digression but it explains our angst.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 07 Jan 2011 02:08

Option 4: Hyd as UT with 4 districts and linkages to Andhra and Telangana is the best option;
KCR and his ilk will first drive away Andhra folks to capture all the real-estate in Hyd if Hyd is not made UT

SeemaAndhra and Telangana can share Hyd as Capital; Hyd can pay Telangana and Andhra for water and electricity;

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Jan 2011 02:09

I like KCR and Harish Rao for their strategy and leadership skills. I hope they end up on the right side.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 07 Jan 2011 02:18

I am reading the sri krishna report and it brings out many things. For understanding purposes, the report for statistics divides AP into telangana without hyd, hyd, coastal andhra and rayalseema.

Sri Krishna Commision report link
http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2011/ ... 010502.pdf
Ref: fig-2.2, 2.3 in page no 68/69 of report or page 109 in pdf.

i) Coastal andhra is stagnating with the least growth among all regions.
ii) Telangana without hyd and hyd are the fastest growing regions.
iii) Infact as a share of income of AP, in the last 15 years, coastal andhra's share decreased from 44-41, rayalseema 18-16, whereas telangana increased from 33-35 and hyd from 5-8.
iv) CA's share has seen a steady and continuous decline.
v) Rayalseema share decreased in 2005 to 14 increasing back to 16 in 2008, my guess- mining boom.

I will continue to post my observations.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jan 2011 02:19

milindc wrote:Option 4: Hyd as UT with 4 districts and linkages to Andhra and Telangana is the best option;
KCR and his ilk will first drive away Andhra folks to capture all the real-estate in Hyd if Hyd is not made UT

SeemaAndhra and Telangana can share Hyd as Capital; Hyd can pay Telangana and Andhra for water and electricity;

How can you say that? Central INC will scam Hyd and people will lose all their efforts. We lose again.

Atleast let the stuff stay with locals.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 07 Jan 2011 02:29

My addition to the table, last column

Table 2.2: Per Capita DDP Aggregated at Various Combinations of
Regions in AP
(at 1999-2000 Prices/ `)

Code: Select all

Region                        1993-94     2000-01     2007-08  growth%
Andhra Pradesh            12235        16615         26310    115
Telangana inc Hyd       11558        16566         27006    134
Telangana exc Hyd       11391        15746          25237    122
Hyderabad                 12745       22135        39145      207
Rayalaseema               12414       15105         23860      92
Coastal Andhra           12809        17301        26655     108

Source: GOI, Ministry of Statistics and Program Implementation

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 Jan 2011 02:38

The dreams of those who wanted the AP to be split into multiple states so that the folks could become irrelevant seems to have gone sour.

Anyway there are still six more weeks before those dreams can become either extremely sweet or completely closed bitterly forever. Time will tell.

The report has come out and based on the options that are outlined in the report it will be practically very dificult to create a state out of Andhra Pradesh unless all the nutcases at the center combine their brains and cook some broth with pig shit.

(1) SKC destroyed the theory of backwardness, partiality against Telangana by their brothers from other districts.
(2) SKC recognized HYD as seperate entity and also a new term RayalaTelangana

(seema and Telangana together and that will be really interesting to see. The poor coastal folks - hahaha )

The above two will now become legitimate arguments of Seemandhra folks and no more wishful thoughts. In the next six weeks any process towards formation of Telangana will need to address one of those two.

Finally what is the point in dicing and slicing of AP other than the following two achievements:
(1) Ego satisfaction of few non-telugu tom-dic-harrys ( probably with no d i c s)
(2) huge and uncontrollable strife and storm across AP

I see only one that is practical - Keep the state united and give autonomous council with a large financial freedom to Telangana and probably other regions too. This way even the political corruption gets evenly distributed and decentralized.

There got to be a regional effort especially by TDP and Congress parties to soothe the feathers of those who feel they lost.

However, we do not have leadership either in government or in opposition ( we lost it post ABV regime). We have maha-rathis who can create strawman like Hindu terror and a future budding PM who can say that it is far worse than LeT. The nutty brains can work in nutty way.

In a rarest of the rare chance the nut cases at the center may afterall create Telangana with Hyderabad ( there is no way they can dice and slice the state as written in other options )and pass it in the parliament. If the government falls due to MPs resignations, they may go to polls with sacrifice for Telangana. This way they can atleast get 10 seats from AP. The 25 from Seemandhra are already lost to either Jagan or TDP.

By the way the nut cases have to pass in the cabinet that consists of Sharad Pawar, Mamta and others who will also read the preffered option of SKC report

while in the background thinking about their own states.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 07 Jan 2011 02:58

SwamyG wrote:ShaymSP: So what does Tirumalai mean in Telugu, huh? My point is, yes it is emotional but if it makes sense to split the state then split. This is not a pissing contest, for crying out loud. Don't make it that.

The moment, any two South Indians thinks they do not have any shared history, it is an additional death knell for the country. So is the case for any two Indians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iyengar

Why do you think Thirumala (Shri hills) which is on the south side of Nalamala (Black hills) range is not a Telugu word also? Thirumala and the town Tirupati were named due to Shri Ramanuja and has nothing to do with Tamils.

Historically there are no bitter Telugu-Tamil divisions (boundaries or wars). Any divisions are mostly modern political phenomenon because Tamils bought into Dravidian ideology while Telugus (and also Kannadigas) did not.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jan 2011 03:03

Pioneer reports:

Please-all Telangana report confuses allJanuary 07, 2011 3:28:36 AM

PNS | New Delhi

Srikrishna panel lists 6 options, Govt set to nix 4 as non-viable

The Government is all set to reject the first four “non-viable” options of the Srikrishna Committee report on Telangana. It is likely to focus on the fifth option, which recommends bifurcation of the State.

At the same time, the Centre has not altogether dismissed the last option of unified Andhra Pradesh, with provisions for a separate regional council for Telangana and statutory and constitutional requirements for its socio-economic development and political empowerment.

The fifth option, considered as viable in the backdrop of political turmoil in the State, suggests dividing Andhra Pradesh into Telangana and Seemandhra. The committee has suggested Hyderabad as the capital of Telangana and left the option open for finding a new capital for Seemandhra. Vijayawada may be considered as the natural option in this case. For creation of a new capital, large investment would be required, and provision for it would have to be made both by the Union and State Govern-ments, the committee stated.

“This option implies accepting the full demands of a large majority of Telangana people for a separate State that will assuage their emotional feelings and sentiments, as well as the perceived sense of discrimination and neglect,” the report stated.

The committee has recommended that keeping Andhra Pradesh united “is the best way forward” while creating a separate State can be the “second best” option to tackle the statehood demand. “The committee considers that unity is in the best interest of all the three regions of the State as internal partitions would not be conducive to providing sustainable solutions to the issues at hand,” the two-volume 461-page report said.

In this option, it is proposed to keep the State united and provide constitutional/statutory measures to address the core socio-economic concerns about development of Telangana region. “This can be done through the establishment of a statutory and empowered Telangana Regional Council with adequate transfer of funds, functions and functionaries in keeping with the spirit of Gentlemen’s Agreement of 1956,” the committee said.

It added that the united Andhra option was being suggested for continuing the development momentum of the three regions and keeping in mind the national perspective. “With firm political and administrative management, it should be possible to convey conviction to the people that this option would be in the best interest of all and provide satisfaction to the maximum number of people in the State,” it added.

Apart from TRC — which will deal with planning and economic development, water and irrigation sector, education, local administration and public health, the committee favoured other confidence-building measures, like providing adequate political space to Telangana such as positions of Chief Minister or Deputy Chief Minister and other key ministerial portfolios.

The committee stated that although this model was considered to be in the “best interest of all people” of the State, some segments of Telangana population — such as students and unemployed youth, non-gazetted officers, lawyers and farmers – “may not feel satisfied and resort to violent agitations”.

“The State’s division will also have serious implications outside Andhra Pradesh. It would not only give fillip to other similar demands, but it will be for the first time after the re-organisation of States that a political demand for dividing a linguistically-constituted State would have conceded by the Union Government with creation of two Telugu-speaking States,” the report stated.

“The issue requires a most calm and dispassionate consideration of consequences. The matter should also be seen in the larger context of whether a region can be allowed to decide for itself what its political status should be, as that would only create a demand for a great number of small States resulting in problems of coordination and management,” the committee pointed out.

Sources said the Congress MLAs and MPs wanted the Centre and the party high command to take expeditious decision so they could take a political stand in their respective regions. “The Cabinet is expected to take a decision within a few weeks after the Congress high command’s nod,” said sources.

The Srikrishna Committee report, which had outlined six options, itself said the first three options were non-viable. On the first option for “maintaining status quo”, the committee said it was of the unanimous view that it would not be a practical approach.

The second option is for bifurcation of the State into Seemandhra and Telangana by converting Hyderabad as Union Territory. The third option is for bifurcation of the State into Rayala-Telangana and coastal Andhra. The fourth option is also considered non-viable. It suggests bifurcating the State into Seemandhra and Telangana with enlarged Hyderabad Metropolis as Union Territory.

The all-party meeting convened by the Centre on Thursday to discuss the report was boycotted by the TRS, TDP and BJP. Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister N Kiran Kumar Reddy and Congress representatives Uttam Kumar Reddy and K Sambasiva Rao, Praja Rajyam Party’s C Ramachandraiah, CPI(M) leaders BV Raghavulu and J Ranga, CPI leaders K Narayana and G Malesh and Akbaruddin Owaisi of AIMIM attended the meeting, presided over by Home Minister P Chidambaram.

Addressing the media after the meeting, the Home Minister requested the political parties to give their opinion on the report. “It is natural that you will require some time to read the report and hold consultations within your party. Hence, if all of you agree, I suggest that we meet again on a convenient date later this month,” he said, appealing for maintaining peaceful atmosphere in the State.

and

'United AP with special steps for Telangana best way forward'
January 07, 2011 3:37:37 AM

PTI | New Delhi

Creation of a separate Telangana state with Hyderabad as its capital and keeping Andhra Pradesh united with constitutional and statutory measures for empowerment of the Telangana region are among the six options recommended by the Justice Srikrishna Committee.

The report of the five-member committee headed by former Supreme Court judge that gave its recommendations after about 11 months of consultation process in the state was released by the Home Ministry today, a week after it received it.

The two-volume 461-page report has also suggested maintaining status quo with a rider that it is the least favoured option.

In the fourth option, for which political parties spearheaded by TRS have been campaigning, the Committee suggests bifurcation of Andhra Pradesh into two units -- Telangana and Seemandhra -- as per existing boundaries. Telangana will have Hyderabad as capital, while Seemandhra, comprising Rayalaseema and coastal Andhra regions, will have a new capital.

In the option for keeping the state united, the Committee has suggested that there should be simultaneous provision of certain constitutional and statutory measures for socio-economic development and political empowerment of Telangana region by creation of a statutorily-empowered Telangana Regional Council.

Another option is to bifurcate the state into Seemandhra and Telangana with Hyderabad as a Union Territory and the two states developing their own capitals in due course.

Bifurcation of Andhra Pradesh into Rayala-Telangana and coastal Andhra regions with Hyderabad being an integral part of Rayala-Telangana is another option suggested by the committee.

Yet another idea is to bifurcate Andhra Pradesh into Seemandhra and Telangana with enlarged Hyderabad Metropolis as a separate Union Territory.

"This Union Territory will have geographical linkage and contiguity via Nalgonda district in the south-east to Guntur district in coastal Andhra and via Mahaboobnagar district in the south to Kurnool district in Rayalaseema.

Following are the options and explanation given by the committee:

1. Maintaining Status Quo: The committee said it is of the unanimous view that it would not be a practical approach to simply maintain the status quo in respect of the situation.

"Some intervention is definitely required and though maintaining the existing status quo is an option it is favoured the least," the panel says.

2. Bifurcation of the state into Seemandhra and Telangana; with Hyderabad as a Union Territory and the two states developing their own capitals in due course:

"There is a definite likelihood of serious backlashes in Telangana region and on overall consideration, the Committee found this option was also not practicable."

3. Bifurcation of the state into Rayala-Telangana and Coastal Andhra Regions with Hyderabad being an integral part of Rayala-Telangana:

"This scenario is not likely to be accepted either by the pro-Telangana or by the pro-United Andhra protagonists. While this option may have economic justification, the committee believes that this option may not offer a resolution which would be acceptable to people of all three regions," it says.

4. Bifurcation of Andhra Pradesh into Seemandhra and Telangana with enlarged Hyderabad Metropolis as a separate Union Territory. This Union Territory will have geographical linkage and contiguity via Nalgonda district in the south-east to Guntur district in coastal Andhra and via Mahaboobnagar district in the south to Kurnool district in Rayalaseema:

"This is likely to receive stiff opposition from Telangana protagonists and it may be difficult to reach a political consensus in making this solution acceptable to all," it says.

5. Bifurcation of the state into Telangana and Seemandhra as per existing boundaries with Hyderabad as the capital of Telangana and Seemandhra to have a new capital:

"The committee feels that this option has to be given consideration. The continuing demand for a separate Telangana has some merit and is not entirely unjustified (rpt) unjustified. In case this option is exercised the apprehensions of the coastal Andhra and the Rayalaseema people and others who were settled in Hyderabad and other districts of Telangana with regard to their investments, properties, livelihood and employment would need to be adequately addressed.

"Considering all aspects, the Committee felt that while creation of separate Telangana would satisfy a large majority of the people from the region, it will also throw up several serious problems. Therefore, after taking into account of the pros and cons the committee did not think it to be most preferred, but the second best option. Separation is recommended only in case it is unavoidable and if decision can be reached amicably amongst all the three regions."

6. Keeping the state united by simultaneously providing certain definite constitutional/statuary measures for socio-economic development and political empowerment of Telangana region-creation of a statutorily-empowered Telangana Regional Council:

"In this option, it is proposed to keep the state united and provide constitutional/statuary measures to address the core socio-economic concerns about the development of the Telangana region. This can be done through the establishment of a statutorily-empowered Telangana Regional Council with adequate transfer of funds, functions and functionaries. The regional council will provide a legislative consultative mechanism for the subjects to be dealt with by the Council.

"The united Andhra option is being suggested for continuing the development momentum of the three regions and keeping in mind the national perspective. With firm political and administrative management it should be possible to convey conviction to the people that this option would be in the best interest of all and would provide satisfaction to the maximum number of the people in the state.

"It would also take care of the uncertainty over the future of Hyderabad as a bustling, educational, industrial and IT hub/destination. For management of water and irrigation resources on an equitable basis, a technical body, i.E., Water Management Board and an Irrigation Project Development Corporation in expanded role have been recommended.

The above course of action should meet all the issues raised by Telangana people satisfactorily.

"The committee discussed all aspects of this option and while it acknowledges that there will be certain difficulties in its implementation, on balance, it found it the most workable option in the given circumstances and in the best interest of the social and economic welfare of the people of all the three regions. The core issue being one of the socio-economic development and good governance, the committee keeping the national perspective in mind, is of the considered view that this option stands out as the best way forward," it says.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 07 Jan 2011 03:14

The reading of the Sri Krishna Report is fun. It completes dismantles the entire economic imperative/argument.

In fact reading the 2nd chapter which deals with economics, gives a distinct impression that telangana has gained the most among the three regions.

An example statistic: Fig 2.25, land productivity per hectare of net sown area

Code: Select all

           1962-65      2003-06   Growth%
CA:       7000           18000        ~160
T:        3000           14000        ~330
RL:       5000            9000         ~80

As it shows CA is in the lead today only because of the initial higher base. T in many many fields has the higher growth %, but lags behind CA only because of the "soooo graceful" rule of the Nizam. RL, the less said about its growth the better, RLs statistics are a depressing read.