Telangana Monitor

[Virupaksha]

Generally rice is considered CA's domain while cotton T's domain. Seems like me myself am living in history.

The growth in productivity in ‘rice’, ‘ground nut’ and ‘cotton’ since 1956 until 2006 is presented in Appendix 2.3. It is clear that Telangana region had experienced unprecedented growth in per hectare production of rice soon after the creation of a united AP. For example, Telangana region recorded a 70% increase in rice production per hectare between 1956-65 and 1965-75 compared with only 39 % and 20% respectively in coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema regions. Thereafter, Telangana has indeed sustained productivity growth in rice over the period until about 2006, for which, we have reviewed the data. On an average, the Rayalaseema region was unable to catch up with the productivity growth in rice compared with other two regions over the last five decades or so.

Sri Krishna's commision summarising agricultural situation in Telangan

Thus, it can be clearly established that
the condition of residents of Telangana region (other than Hyderabad) has, indeed, experienced larger improvements during the past half a century and it has caught up with the broad economic conditions prevailing in coastal Andhra. This is possible only when the relative growth in the identified indicators has been much faster in Telangana compared with coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema regions.

[ShyamSP]

Hyderabad is in the middle of Telangana, and is not directly accessible to rest of Andhra, so Chandigarh is a bad example. More over, without Hyd, Telangana has no alternative tax-revenue generating city.

If you join Mahaboob Nagar, Ranga Reddy, Nalgonda into rest of Andhra you get Chandigarh like border.

I wrote it in Dec'09 and SKC report gave a map now. This is needed in case Hyderabad to be made common Capital and TRS loot areas will be limited to Naxal lands


http://i53.tinypic.com/1tk3t4.jpg

Edit: Ramana, I removed embedding pic

[ramana]

Can you resize the image and post please?

[SwamyG]

Either it is all one State (no split). Or split into two states; with Hyderabad going to one of them and a new capital for the other state.

[Muppalla]

http://www.suryaa.com/main/showNews.asp ... ntId=12158

I expected this news item. Kiran may be moved out of CM post with a T-Person as replacement. If they do it and then establish the T-Council rather than some nutty thoughts then it will be the first move in the right direction. Anything else is a disaster. Sorry there is no paractical scope for T even if there are killings and bad blood across.

[ramana]

There was T leader Surender Reddy from Hyderabd who is no more.

[Virupaksha]

The comment by MSR (in previous page) suddenly seems to make a lot of sense.

[Virupaksha]

What comes out from the economical perspective on T is that T excluding hyd has on a % basis of GDP has approximately the same GDP as others. Where it lags behind is its feudalism and thus LOT of inequality .
some excerpts:

Compared with coastal Andhra, it is alleged that Telangana has low per capita income, lower access to employment, lower business opportunities and low access to education and so on.
...
At the outset, some or all such allegations appear true when absolute amounts, numbers and percentages are reviewed. Yet, when a study of rate of change, growth rate and shares in the state economy is evaluated, nothing unusual emerges.
...
Indeed, one finds that at a reference point in the past, such as the census 1961 or 1956 or 1974 since when factual data are available, the shares for Telangana were far too low
...
In recent years, however the shares of Telangana for many common development parameters are in league with the share of population / area, often being higher.
...
Disturbing, however, are the growing levels of inequity within Telangana and Rayalaseema, and within the deprived population groups. Contrastingly, the evidence suggests that the inequity in income has, in fact, declined in coastal Andhra.
...
the rate of growth of most of the parameters of development has shown robust growth in Telangana. Coastal Andhra has natural advantages and a long history of development in agriculture, but it is the Telangana region which has shown commendable growth in agriculture during the past three-four decades. Thus, on the whole, it would appear that the deprived region is Rayalaseema not Telangana.
...

and the most important points

Such deepening inequity in Telangana can not only sustain the separatist agitation but it can also carry it further and increase its intensity. The masses, therefore, can be easily used as tools of agitation by motivated groups and even political parties.
...
analysis of income change in rural areas over a period of one decade suggests that, in Telangana, the relative income growth has occurred only amongst the richest; whereas the poorer and the most deprived have experienced considerably large declines in relative income

The high caste / communities have gained considerably in Telangana while there is erosion of relative income amongst the rich in coastal Andhra.

[Sarma]

Wow! I am going through the report page by page, one chapter at a time. It is a treasure trove of information that completely dismantles 50 years of wilful and wanton vilification of a section of fellow Indians, and fellow Telugus. People like the fake Prof. Jayashankar, Taliban Prof. Kodandaram, and the rabble rouser KCR have spared no words in abusing a section of Indians as worse than devils. This section of Indians was said to be worse than even the Nizam and his raping of Telangana culture. Nizam was praised to the sky, in spite of his total suppression of the Telangan culture, and a section of Indians became the posterboys of rapaciousness, unbridled greed, and almost demons.

This report will stand forever in the annals of AP history as the most authoritative social document. Extremely scholarly, well written and well researched. I was thoroughly impressed with the presentation. If in spite of all this, the Central Govt creates a separate T-state based on puerile logic, then so be it. At least, I am now glad the truth has seen the light of the day.

[Yagnasri]

I agree with you sharmaji. The facts are now out and with this no one can say "Doochukunnaru" argument any more. Since there is no development argument to support devision will become that much problematic. Remember there is no support for the division in AP assembly. Opinion of the assembly is a must for any constitutional step.

[Hari Seldon]

^^^IIRC, state assembly opinion is a 'nice to have' and nowhere near a constitutional must for the creation of a separate state.

[shaardula]

swamy,

prolly, malai is a proto-dravidian word. becomes male in kannada, mala in telugu.

to quote a classic kannada poem about honey gatherer tribals ...
mooDaana bailinda melakke haari,
dooraada maleya taleyaane yaeri
nesaara noDu, nesara noDu.

malai = male = mala.
talai = tale = tala.

i have said this before. one of the things is tamil tends to usurp all dravidian identity to itself. i dont think any of the peoples when they met others across the rivers didnot know how to speak. there must have been major give and take. it is highly unlikely that only one group had all to give and others simply did all the taking.

[Muppalla]

swamy,

prolly, malai is a proto-dravidian word. becomes male in kannada, mala in telugu.

to quote a classic kannada poem about honey gatherer tribals ...
mooDaana bailinda melakke haari,
dooraada maleya taleyaane yaeri
nesaara noDu, nesara noDu.

malai = male = mala.
talai = tale = tala.

i have said this before. one of the things is tamil tends to usurp all dravidian identity to itself. i dont think any of the peoples when they met others across the rivers didnot know how to speak. there must have been major give and take. it is highly unlikely that only one group had all to give and others simply did all the taking.

shaardula ji,
what is the meaning of the poem in English or Hindi or Telugu?

[Virupaksha]

Reading the document reminded me of an anecdote.

My friend has a fruit farm in telangana. They are pukka telanganites. But they make it a point to never hire ANY telangana labour even if it costs double/triple.
Reason: When you hire telangana labour, during the fruit season- the naxalites immediately get to know how much produce you had and will come to you for their share and you cant hide/deny/reduce it or the naxals make it a point to destroy the next crop completely.

So the net effect is even when the produce is good, only the farm owner benefits.

While the farmers in all regions have shown stable income or income which has hardly changed; the real income of the agricultural wage labour has declined considerably in Telangana, whereas it has increased considerably in coastal Andhra region
......
Note that the Gini coefficient has increased substantially in Telangana, followed by Rayalaseema whereas it has declined in coastal Andhra. But largest increase in Gini is found amongst the SCs, STs & Muslims in Telangana. Interestingly, the Gini has declined amongst the Hindu OBCs who are most likely to be the farming community, suggesting gains from reforms in agriculture and irrigation in Telangana. Interestingly, the income inequity amongst the high caste communities in Telangana has increased.

So naxalism instead of creating communist paradise of equality is the root cause of growing inequality in Telangana.

[Muppalla]

So naxalism instead of creating communist paradise of equality is the root cause of growing inequality in Telangana.

Everyone starting from Nizam then the feudal doras, Naxals and later T-Movement holders exploited the common peasants. They fell for everything. The suffering folks will go to anyone who gives them the basic needs. Naxals gave them and hence they believe in them. But Naxals are again ultra-leftists mostly with leaders from coastal-AP with links to all anti-Indian affliations. My ultimate shock was when I came to know the real name of Swami Agnivesh. He is from Srikakulam district with a very famous last name (vepa).

The T-movement of KCR or whoever will never be succesful just by creating havoc in OU. It got the grassroots support because of Naxal support. Remember a three day back statement from KCR - Our agenda is same as that of naxals.

The one glaring sad thing is that whatever is done so far substantial grassroot population who are poor in T are still exploited and they are used with all these slogans.

One biggest fallout of this thing is that there will be huge alienation of these folks. It happened in 1969 and when they forcefully supressed the movement, there are scores that were killed in police firing. The entire generation got alienated. These folks are colleteral damage for everyone and they are really really huge in number. There got to be a nationalist movement to uplift them.

[ramana]

X-post. The reason is KCR was saying how life under Nizam was good for him.

K.M. Munshi had the following to say (1957)(The End of an Era - Hyderabad Memoirs)
(emphasis added)

"The Indian National Congress, the architect as well as the instrument of Indian nationalism, was for several decades dominated by Mahatma Gandhi and his devoted band of followers, both Hindus and Muslims. It exercised great self-restraint. But for it, Muslim separativeness would have led to the growth of fierce Hindu aggressiveness.

When the transfer of power from the British to Indian hands became a clear possibility, the separativeness which dominated certain sections of Muslims found expression in their growing demands. They wanted separate electorates; communal weightage; then, a balance of Hindu-Muslim provinces in the Federal government; later, a claim to equality of representation with the Hindu community. ...Ultimately when freedom was at hand, this separativeness took the shape of a blunt refusal to live in the same country and a determination to establish a separate homeland......

....Once Pakistan was conceded and the Congress installed in office in New Delhi, communal fanaticism lost its hold over vast sections of the Hindus. The fanatic impulse among most of the Muslims who remained in India was also curbed, at least on the surface.

But these new developments created little impression on the North Indian Muslims of Hyderabad....The Ittehad, inspired and dominated mostly by the Indian Muslims was also aided by local adventurers. Its natural ambition, therefore, was to build a modern fascist centre of communal aggressiveness in India on the crumbling edifice of the State....Their object, scarcely concealed, was to establish Islamic domination, with or without the aid of Pakistan, first of Hyderabad, then of the South and ultimately of the whole of India.

Had this attempt succeeded, it would have precipitated so powerful a Hindu sentiment as to have spelt the end of a free democracy in India. It would have also arrested its march towards a modern democratic state. The end of the Ittehad, therefore, served to bury this potential catastrophe once for all.

...If Hyderabad had remained unintegrated with the rest of India, the country would have felt outraged. The communal fascism of the Ittehad would have developed into a civil war between the communities. The Muslims of India, who had been accepted as an integral part of our democratic society, would have come to be looked upon as hostiles.

...By the Police Action, the people of India not only met an internal challenge; they fulfilled the destiny which had been denied to them by the accidents of history.

With the close of the Hyderabad episode, therefore, an era came to an end.

......

Those were the stakes that led to Operation Polo.

[Muppalla]

^^^ Reminds me of NTR's famous dialogue(not sure i got it right), "Teluguvaari aatmagouravam delhi roadlalo taakattu pettaru "

suryag garu. That is the correct statement.

T-MPs folding their hands and also touching the feet of Pranab Da while weeping. In addition, few folks even said that they will commit suicide.

Few days ago, KCR said that he will wash Sonia Gandhi's feet if she can give T-State.

It is really disgusting to see such a fall and these folks does not have any pride left to be what their ancenstors were.

From a karma angle think it this way - Even lord Shiva sat in a Tree when Shani passed through his kundali. Probably AP is going through such sade sati. I don't know.

[KSKumar]

Please, this is ridiculous. When KCR went on fast, he had all of 10 MLAs. The Congress that fought the 2009 elections, dropped Telegana from its manifesto and still won a majority in Telengana.

Oh, but Congress and TRS fought together with Telengana very much on the manifesto and wiped out Naidu! It was on the manifesto alright.

Okay, 2nd term, YSR/Cong won without the T word on the manifesto, but the Congress has been thumped in all the local elections after that in Telengana.

You have no clue about the dynamics that resulted in this mess. There was no need for the Dec. 9 2009 declaration.

The flames that KCR tried to fan over the last 9 years previously had died down to embers, but were suddenly fanned into a roaring flame by the devious scamster.

Root cause of the flare up was that YSR died in the crash. He basically was the one who sat on it and kept the flames down. With him gone I think there is really no "Pan Andhra" figure to keep it done. It all became a one man and when he went to the great beyond, it fell apart.

If my house can be burnt down, so can those of the others.

Relax!. Your house is not burning even if T happens or even if other states split. It is a non issue . Reorgs happened umpteen times . Earlier KA, TN, KL, AP, MH and GJ came about Assam was split into multiple states in NE, Punjab, Haryana, HP were formed and more recently Jharkhand, Chattisgarh,Uttaranchal etc came into being. None of this resulted in anything burning.

I really dont see what is the big problem in this. It is like saying that since Uttaranchal was formed, someone from Dehradun can no longer go to Lucknow/Kanpur or viceversa! It really makes no difference whatsoever!.

There are multiple Hindi speaking states. So what if there is two states that speak Telugu ?

Of course, if the coastal money invested in shady schemes and avenues in Hyd (such schemes simply about in massive quantities , lets face it) and the fear is that the political cover for that will be blown in Hyderabad once T comes about, then it is a very different point.

Look, I know you dislike Telugus. You have made that very clear over a number of posts on other matters as well.

At least get your facts right before you opine on something that does not directly concern you.

TRS and Congress fought the 2004 election (with CPM and CPI being with them in an alliance against TDP). TRS won 26 out of the 50 odd they contested (out of 119 total in telengana).

TRS underwent splits in 2006 and TRS fell out with the Congress. KCR precipitated by-elections and hist strength came down to 7 in 2008.

In 2009, KCR was in alliance with TDP (along with CPM and CPI) and Congress went alone. They dropped Telengana from their manifesto and still won 50/119 assembly against the combined opposition and 12/19 Lok Sabha.

TRS was down to 10 in 2009 May elections.

This clearly shows dwindling support for any telengana.

Then, of course, YSR died and the Indian Home Minister/Scamster lit the fire with his Dec. 9th declaration of telengana.

What part of "no support for telengana" in the only form that matters in a democracy - actual elections - do you not understand?

[Muppalla]

Guys. Lets be real here. The pre 1956 Telengana cant come about, because, the old Hyderabad areas with Kannada and Marathi speaking population was given to Karnataka and Maharashtra.

Yes, Hyderabad WILL remain the capital of Telengana. It cannot be otherwise. It is the old capital of that region, was built with the blood and tears of folks from that region and of course the coastal folks and others in the last 60 years .

Shouldn't the aspirations of Hyderabad folks not taken into account; Let the vote decide whether they want to be a UT/Joint Capital/Merge with Telangana

If you put voting, portions of JK is out of India. There will be a thousand states too.

I respecfully disagree. This will open up another pandora box. Next what? Mumbai, Bangalore and every metro which looks nice and think "we are fashionable" as compared to the adjacent rural ghatis will start asking for states. I will bet that Mumbai folks will definitely like to have a state to avoid MNS and SS type stuff.

All the dicing and slicing talk and proposals have to stop. There should be a new type of forum in the country to stop thinking in these lines of carving new states.

The most recommended one is to keep the state united and create a devolutionary political package. The government should seriously work on that and nothing else.

[ShyamSP]

As expected in TV9 discussion T-vadis are saying statistics in SKC report are cooked up. Once your dismiss report, you can continue with "Dochukunnaru" (robbed us) argument.

In another TV discussion, Congress MP Sukhinder Reddy said SKC was bribed by Seema Andhra leaders to get report in their favor.

So looks like there is no way to win with truth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hga7RL1MVgM

[Muppalla]

Worried Cong plays for time

Steps like creation of a regional council having statutory powers could be taken up before the budget session of Parliament that begins in the last week of February.

But, so far, one option that does not figure in the government’s scheme is bifurcation of the state.

This has caused deep anguish among Congress leaders from Telangana who are contemplating “some action” despite the high command’s stern warning against any move that could precipitate a crisis.

A Congress MP told The Telegraph: “We are in a very bad mood. We are now planning to directly talk to the people instead of the media and the high command. We cannot be a mute spectator to the government’s dithering if the people erupt in protest.”

The real problem lies with pro-Telangana leaders who fear their political career will be over if they avoided taking a public position in favour of a separate state.

The high command understands their dilemma and will adopt a flexible approach to allow them enough space for their pro-Telangana activities.

“We have to live with this contradiction as, unlike other parties, the Congress has stakes on both sides of the divide. Contrarian voices coming from states which reflect their regional loyalties cannot be seen as anti-party activity. We have to strike a balance,” a senior AICC functionary said, admitting that the party was in for a difficult time.

[Dasari]

Deleted

[vina]

Look, I know you dislike Telugus. You have made that very clear over a number of posts on other matters as well.

Woww..Woww. Relax. I don't "dislike" anyone (except Pawkees, I admit) , least of all Telugu speaking folks. I have folks who are married to people who speak Telugu .

At least get your facts right before you opine on something that does not directly concern you.

I know the fact that you listed below thank you and I do agree it is of no concern to me. And that is because, it is a total non-issue. I simply dont see any reason why the Coastal guys are getting so worked up and all I have is a sense of mirth at this professed and I think make believe "Takleef".

So in that sense of mirth this

capital- hyderabad problem

is very easy ! Maybe coastal Andhra and Rayalseema can come back into the arms of old Mama Madras as the capital again and everyone will be happy under the thumbs of the Boor-o-crats in Fort St.George!

Err.. Not so soon. I guess, Dr Artiste and his troops and the others of his ilk will be out in full force and in full throat against it because it will spell the death knell of their brand of chauvinistic politics.Hmm on other thoughts, maybe not. The bulk of the leading lights in the Dravidian movement's progenitor , the Justice Party were non Tamil.. EVR (Kannadiga), Shenoy (Malayali),Raja of Panagal, Sir Thiyagaraya (Telugus) to name a few. So who knows?

What part of "no support for telengana" in the only form that matters in a democracy - actual elections - do you not understand?

This aint no referendum /popular vote. The Indian constitution is NOT like the US constitution which guarantees against dividing the constituent states. US is a true Fedral structure where the states are inviolable. In India, it is different, it is quasi federal and states can be reconstiuted as per need and times and popular demand. So relax, this isn't any secession or anything, but some politicos wrangling for fishes and loaves of office and the get their hands into the Hyderabad cookie jar! It is immaterial to anyone, if the hand in the cookie jar is from Coastal or Rayalseema or Telengana , unless of course, you happen to be one of those who hopes that it is your hand that gets into the cookie jar!

[KSKumar]

It is not only the coastal folk who are uncomfortable with the fascist overtones of the separate Telengana movement. I belong to Telengana and certainly do not want division. What the f!ck is so "make believe" about that? The arguments for telengana are false and have been proven so by an eminent panel. That should be the end of the debate.

How the hell does one ascertain "need" and "popular demand"? You have a sub-regional formation established solely for achieving statehood, and over three elections performs miserably in the very region where it seeks to establish a separate state - and you still contend there is "popular demand"?

So you arrive at conclusions that most suit your biases, ignoring everthing that overwhelmingly leads any unbiased mind to exactly opposite conclusions.

About not "disliking" telugu folks - Yeah sure!

Not that it matters. Everyone has a constitutionally guaranteed right to dislike as many of "others" as he/she likes.

The only place to draw a line at is the place where Chidabaram mouthed off about separate telengana and folks in telagana being discriminated against. He made those statements in the days following Dec. 9th.

The committee he appointed directly contradicts this. Should he not quit, if he has any honour?

That's rhetorical. We know only too well how "honourable" he is.

[vina]

You have a sub-regional formation established solely for achieving statehood, and over three elections performs miserably in the very region where it seeks to establish a separate state - and you still contend there is "popular demand"?

Really, if that is so, why are the Kangress Yumm-Peas and YumYellYeas from the Telengana region not calling KCR's "bluff" , but are steadfast on the Telengana bandwagon. Come on, it is easy to see that there is some amount / nay overwhelming popular support for it.

Now how to address that is a different problem and it needs some creative negotiations, good faith and a willingness to work together and of course the coast based and Rayalseema parties (esp TDP and Praja Rajyam and others) play a vital part as well and need to sit together with the Telengana dudes and try to seriously sell option 6 in the Sri Krishna report and discuss what kind of guarantees and internal devolution the Telengana types can be happy with. Some amount of carrot and stick from the center to the Telengana types on the order of "Keep your head in the stand and musharraf in the air and keep repeating only telengana, only telengana, you get only that without Hyd" for eg .

That part is where I see the problem. The coastal and rayalseema types I think are used to having the way and are in no mood to negotiate and actually get beyond name calling and slandering. After all, the status quo / Option 1 in the Srikrishna report has been put aside as unworkable by the commission itself!. So the coastal guys need to wake up and smell the coffee and come down a couple of notches and realize that the old days of "I win in coastal and pick up a smattering of seats in Telengana & Rayalseema, and I get to own all the goats in Andhra" are gone. The cookie now need to be shared and there are going to be 3 hands for 3 cookies and not one hand for 3 cookies.

[KSKumar]

Why should they call the KCR's bluff? The fire was fanned gratutously and they see an opportunity of cornering Hyderabad+Telengana all for themselves without the pesky coastal/rayalseema politicians.

You got it ass-backwards. Telegana issue did not strike a chord during any of the 3 preceding elections (ignoring the latest farce where TRS was given a walkover). Then Chidambaram diabolically stokes the flames and now you want those politicians who will benefit from cornering Hyderabad to call their own bluff?

How logical and reasonable!

There has to be accommodations among all the regions to continue the prosperity march that we have seen over the last 2 decades. In the present circumstances, that is a motherhood and apple-pie statement. Who will disagree with that and who said there should be no such accommodation? Regional Councils are the way to go.

How the hell have the coastal folks have had it their own way? The Rayalaseema/Coastal leaders have gone ahead and marketed themselves in Telengana as well and so they lead their parties to victory and assumed the CM chair. Similar examples from Telengana are absent. That is not the problem of other regions. Nothing prevents Telengana leaders to do the same. If they continue to harp only on Telengana and want an easy ride to power, why should others oblige?

[nvishal]

Media broadcast restrictions

...the government imposed restrictions on media, no television channel telecast the clashes which continued throughout the day. This helped the police in containing the violence from spreading outside the campus.

[vijayk]

^^ If they monitored and controlled the media, things would not have been so bad. We are not yet a progressive and balanced society. We are still in the process of maturation on how we can exercise our freedoms. Our press is an example of such immaturity whether it is because of TRPs or our innate prejudices or pure self interests a.l.a Burkha or Vir sanghvi. If not for the irresponsible journalism, so many young guys would not have died of suicides. If not for the press, wiser counsel would have prevailed and cooler heads from both sides would have negotiated.

[milindc]

Shouldn't the aspirations of Hyderabad folks not taken into account; Let the vote decide whether they want to be a UT/Joint Capital/Merge with Telangana

If you put voting, portions of JK is out of India. There will be a thousand states too.

I respecfully disagree. This will open up another pandora box. Next what? Mumbai, Bangalore and every metro which looks nice and think "we are fashionable" as compared to the adjacent rural ghatis will start asking for states. I will bet that Mumbai folks will definitely like to have a state to avoid MNS and SS type stuff.

All the dicing and slicing talk and proposals have to stop. There should be a new type of forum in the country to stop thinking in these lines of carving new states.

The most recommended one is to keep the state united and create a devolutionary political package. The government should seriously work on that and nothing else.

Well said; It can't be decided by popular demand, it will unravel lot of different opinions on how to proceed.
Only Telangana folks gain by division with Hyd as their Capital; What's in there for Andhra folks ? If Hyd is made large UT will linkage to all the regions then it will be palatable for them as well.

As I see it, it is very difficult for anyone to control the ground situation in Telangana, they definitely want division whether or not the demand is fair.

[Muppalla]

milind,

I am (really and not just a long term "settler") from both sides. A lot of folks think that Andhras will lose this and that. I personally do not think they will lose even if they do not get Hyderabad. The river water stuff and all other things are all rhetoric. God decided the geography and no one can change irrespective of technological advances other than that the folks in delta reducing from three to two crops which in a way is not bad so that the areas also will develop industry. Even Rayalaseema will get their water share. Political and perceptional statements are different from policies and implementation. Who will stop Andhras to come to HYD? Are they not investing in Mumbai, Pune, Bangalore? It will be the same way.

Do not fall for TRS rhetoric and all that will be temporary irrespective of the intensitiy.

Then you may ask why did Andhras react so strongly including the leadership? The perception that is created by a lot of folks (not just TRS) is that these folks have a lot of investments and they are scared of losing value etc. I say this is the biggest BS and it is just a perception. The reality is, it is a feeling of an attachment and sudden loss to that attachment. The folks who are opposing are all a new generation folks. I can put here a list of wealthy folks with details from Andhras that will fill another 10 pages easily. It will be joke to say that they will lose their multi-million dollars (no exxaggaration) just because HYD is formed with Telangana.

Andhras are brought up on a staple mental diet -
Andhra Pradesh united Telugus after the demise of foreign rule.A pride pointer.( There was a huge nationalistic strategy behind it by a lot of Telugu and non-Telugu thinkers and shakers of that time.)
We have to learn three languages - English (for jobs), Hindi (for national integration whether we really speak it or not) along with Telugu (our own).
Hyderabad - A jewel that is we always have to be proud of and make it a competetive icon with respect to other similar cities of the nation.

Two generations passed on such mental diet. It is the only reason and NOT material reasons. Materialistic reason are just negotiating tactics to keep the state united. Hyd seperation is used as a tactic and every damn leader knows that there is no T without Hyd.

Regarding something has to be given most probably they will give the T-Council and nothing else.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Probably the government has a strategy
(1) The curbs on media and large deployment is to supress the T movement.
(2) Once it is controlled, in budget session a bill to have T council and also financial packages will be announced
(3) Elections to the council
(4) Handle Jagan. Jagan also will not be able to sustain the momentum. Probably they will clamp a president's rule even before government falls with Assembly not dissolved.

A lot of money to MLAs, MPs will be transferred in adjustment and purchases. Even the T-movement will not sustain forever. People, students will have to get back to their lives. They will feel cheated and alienated but no one cares.

[Yagnasri]

my views on this matter. Since it is a bit long I am giving like to my blog where i have published it.

http://rlindia.blogspot.com/2011/01/tel ... -lack.html

[Yagnasri]

I agree with Muppallaji, It is all about losing the identity. Do you know the irrigation tank which cultivate our lands in Nellore is constructed long back by Kakathiya kings. Srimadhandra Bhagavatham which all telugu people read was written in Warangal. Telugu people can not even allowed to speak in Telugu in any public meeting in Nizam rule and now we are once again made to fight like dogs so that Italian family can watch the fun from Delhi.

[munna]

Before the 1966 trifurcation of Punjab Akalis were hell bent on ensuring a "Punjabi Suba" that was essentially a Sikh majority state that was being sought under the garb of Punjabi language speaking state. The dangerous machinations by more fundamentalist organizations led to a feeling that Punjabi language= Sikh Hindi language = Hindus. In the 1961 census Punjabi speaking areas in current Himachal and Haryana (Kangra Valley, Shimla District and Ambala) named their primary language as Hindi since the local dialects were not classified as languages back then and communalism was rife.

All this resulted in a stalemate with both Hindi and Punjabi declared to be official languages of Punjab and two committees were announced. Hindi Committee and Punjabi Committee of the Legislative Assembly of Punjab, these bodies were created to ostensibly manage the western and eastern districts of the state. However within a few years the divide in the state became so much that these bodies started to function as de-facto different legislatures. The formal partition came in 1966 and the only people who lost were the unrelenting "Punjabi Suba" walas since their state got truncated more than necessary and were left with a legacy of communalism to deal with.

The lesson being dominant groups of AP should not go out of the way to call names and cast aspersions on any and every supporter of Telangana. They might end up with a far worse deal than they are getting now. A regional development council will only create a new power class with its patronage networks within Telangana and they will not stop at mere financial powers. They will aspire for full statehood and with a measure of public support behind them let us not kid ourselves. India and its idea is bigger than the idea of AP and a new state will not damage that idea. The state will happen in due course but how it is created is in the hands of joint-AP walas. Maybe with some adroit political management the division may not occur also. But such a thing is not possible from a pulpit of arrogance, "lay-off"-ism and anger.

PS: Before someone gets all parochial and tells non-AP folks to stay away. My only retort is do not alienate people from other regions as they too will influence vote in Lok Sabha. So you may like it or not but TN, Kar, UA or even J&K MPs will decide the fate of AP borders in Lok Sabha and not AP MPs alone. Telangana-vadis have won friends by reaching out beyond state, you should too. It helps to have friends on all sides and regions. JMTP

[Yagnasri]

Example of Punjab is the worst one sir. I dont think you have seen how bad the result was for the nation and what is cost we have all paid. There is no langauage division here in AP and no problems for 40 long years. No popular support for hardcore T vadis even in 2009 elections. TRS won 10 seats in 50 contested.

As for as name calling I dont think you are watching Telugu TV for last several years. If you see it you will know who is calling whom and what.

No one bother to note that one more report on law and order was given to home ministry by the SKC and no one know what they have written. In any event allowing naxals full freedom to extort money from a major city like Hyderabad is not in the interest of the idea of India unless you are just like Arundathi Roy.

In respect of getting bad deal later, Telugu people are not so bad positioned like Sikhs. We have sea coast, gad and oil, lands, and though I hate to write this we dont need Hyd and even Delhi. the remaing areas of AP can even be a independant state than insulted time and again by T vadis.

[Virupaksha]

[Really, if that is so, why are the Kangress Yumm-Peas and YumYellYeas from the Telengana region not calling KCR's "bluff" , but are steadfast on the Telengana bandwagon. Come on, it is easy to see that there is some amount / nay overwhelming popular support for it.

Now how to address that is a different problem and it needs some creative negotiations, good faith and a willingness to work together and of course the coast based and Rayalseema parties (esp TDP and Praja Rajyam and others) play a vital part as well and need to sit together with the Telengana dudes and try to seriously sell option 6 in the Sri Krishna report and discuss what kind of guarantees and internal devolution the Telengana types can be happy with. Some amount of carrot and stick from the center to the Telengana types on the order of "Keep your head in the stand and musharraf in the air and keep repeating only telengana, only telengana, you get only that without Hyd" for eg .

That part is where I see the problem. The coastal and rayalseema types I think are used to having the way and are in no mood to negotiate and actually get beyond name calling and slandering. After all, the status quo / Option 1 in the Srikrishna report has been put aside as unworkable by the commission itself!. So the coastal guys need to wake up and smell the coffee and come down a couple of notches and realize that the old days of "I win in coastal and pick up a smattering of seats in Telengana & Rayalseema, and I get to own all the goats in Andhra" are gone. The cookie now need to be shared and there are going to be 3 hands for 3 cookies and not one hand for 3 cookies.

Vina,

Unfortunately you have NO idea about AP politics except some vague points.
For your kind information, "the coast based and Rayalseema parties (esp TDP and Praja Rajyam and others) ", tdp has 38 mlas out of 117 telangana mlas, in proportion with total 92 out of 290. The former number two of TDP who is from telangana thought he could ride telangana wave and formed a new party, lost soo badly that he is right now tucked in behind TDP.
MBAgiri and hammer is the solution for all problems have their uses in some places, not all.

[Muppalla]

munna ji, you brought up an excellent comparision. I was comparing to Punjab when I talk about the divide in Telugus. The only ease in case of Punjabis is that there are two religions and two dialects (Gurumukhi ?, Punjabi and Hindi). In this T case though there are no such division except differences in accent (again this is different in different districts of the state. The vast difference of accent between T and Krishna district is as vast as the accent difference between Guntur and Konaseema). All kinds of justifications are created and a lot of T people beleive at heart.

However, to give an anology:see the degradation in relations among Punjabis:
(1) Sikh religion is primarily born as a protector of that region with a lot of strategy and rules built into it (pardon my simplification and I understand it is lot more)
(2) First son of a Punjabi Hindu became sikh
(3) The differentiation degraded to emotional split in the form of language etc.
(4) After the Punjab problem and Delhi riots, the argument is that Sikhs are different from Hindus. The two religions are as different as any other two religions.

Who sowed the entire split? Not Punjabis themselves.

This is exactly what that is happening in AP. Punjab has Pakis in the border to make it more violent. Fortunately AP does not have such a situation though maoists are there.

[SwamyG]

i have said this before. one of the things is tamil tends to usurp all dravidian identity to itself. i dont think any of the peoples when they met others across the rivers didnot know how to speak. there must have been major give and take. it is highly unlikely that only one group had all to give and others simply did all the taking.

Yeah right. We tamilians like to Lord over others and usurp all people's identity for ourselves. This sort of attitude is precisely what gets my goat. If you had noticed my posts in this thread or elsewhere, nowhere I tom tom tamil. In fact I argue the other way how we are all connected and have shared history.

No where, ever, have I said or implied in BRF or across the internet, that any one group has given and the rest accepted. If you read my post carefully, I give credit to Ramanujacharya's survial to Kannada kings. I am not even a Sri Vaishnava.

Are there tamilians who are chauvinistic? Yes. Are there chauvinistic among Kannada or Telugu speaking people? Definitely Yes. But the latter group does not get the same attention or criticisms that tamilians attract. Hence ramana garu's caused opinion cause me little takleef.

Otherwise, I value identity of all sub-cultures, and am against "forced" dilution. Hence my opposition to government instituted link-language. Changes or dilution will happen, and I prefer it gently, smoothly of people's own accord.

Tamilians get the grief, looked down upon and with suspicion ityadi, because politicians from Tamil Nadu stiffly opposed the imposition of Hindi, the pride of Tamilians with their language and culture ityadi. When people across the country and globe share similar tendencies of pride.

ps: Imagine the ruckus in BRF if somebody were to start a "History of Tamilians" or something like that dhaaga.

[munna]

In any event allowing naxals full freedom to extort money from a major city like Hyderabad is not in the interest of the idea of India unless you are just like Arundathi Roy.

I was supporting Telangana with full fervor till I saw this yesterday Students to form national alliance for T, to rope in Arundhati Roy. I will not support a cause espoused by Ms Roy no matter what, because she wants to tear my country apart and believes in her own narrow vision of Stalinist state.

But guess what? Tactical brilliance and sheer parochialism like this

In respect of getting bad deal later, Telugu people are not so bad positioned like Sikhs. We have sea coast, gad and oil, lands, and though I hate to write this we dont need Hyd and even Delhi. the remaing areas of AP can even be a independant state than insulted time and again by T vadis.

Makes me wonder who is better Ms Roy or anti-Telangana lobby? When both sides are not in sync with the idea of India as a whole for their own selfish narrow ends that is achievement of a Stalinist state or sub-nationalistic power trip, who is right or wrong? By telling other Indians oh you don't know, eff off, we are a sub-regional shooperpower and you are all conspiring against us, United AP folks are scaring away potential support from rest of India.

If you are quite convinced about your stance then convince the rest of India about it too. Calling Home Minister of India (although Kangressi ) names or rest of your compatriots names is not done. Give them an option better than Ms Roy to support and they will jump on your boat. Use idea of India to win this battle the idea of sub-regional pride has extremely limited legs and will not go far.

[Virupaksha]

ps: Imagine the ruckus in BRF if somebody were to start a "History of Tamilians" or something like that dhaaga.

Actually I am very much interested in such a thread. If you can do that, it would be great.

I wouldnt have known anything about marathas if not for the maratha thread and similarly for rajasthan/sikh.

[SwamyG]

Historically there are no bitter Telugu-Tamil divisions (boundaries or wars). Any divisions are mostly modern political phenomenon because Tamils bought into Dravidian ideology while Telugus (and also Kannadigas) did not.

I agree. Nothing in our history demonstrates, so far, that people were bitter about each other. Did the Kingdoms fight, yes but that is political. You are mistaken initially the Justice Party or Self-Respect movement had telugu people too. I am not sure about the Kannadaigas. The tendency is to blame everything in the tamilians. If tamilians do it, it becomes chauvinistic, if others do it then it is done because of pride. Wah re wah.

Ravi: Alas, I will never do it in BRF. Never.