LCA News and Discussions

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2011 11:45

great deal of howling noise from HAL area but no sign of any takeoffs toward domlur side.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 10 Jan 2011 11:45

NDTV has something going on too..

http://www.ndtv.com/video/live/channel/ndtv24x7

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 10 Jan 2011 11:47

Any BR member taking pictures or videos of the event ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2011 11:48

maybe to rub it in they are only doing high speed taxi trial today, to remind of the days when Tejas was grounded by the machinations of Sher khan....a kind of "masada oath/stalingrad - never again" thing...a general stream of warm piss directed in general direction of sleeping tiger.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 10 Jan 2011 11:49

Singha wrote:maybe to rub it in they are only doing high speed taxi trial today, to remind of the days when Tejas was grounded by the machinations of Sher khan....a kind of "masada oath/stalingrad - never again" thing...

On the DD stream, one aircraft certainly did a low flow by..

NDTV shows a small footage of 4 LCAs flying in formation with one peeling away. I dont know if it's from today. Dont recollect seeing it before.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2011 11:51

the chinese milk worldwide psyops with a plane doing high speed taxi trials and we get this shivering dhoti show for a IOC

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 10 Jan 2011 12:01

Shiv Aroor has uploaded the first few photos of IOC ceremony at http://livefist.blogspot.com

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 10 Jan 2011 12:11

no audio darn it

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2011 12:24

pic from IBNlive
[img]
http://static.ibnlive.com/pix/sitepix/0 ... ftejas.jpg[/img]

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 10 Jan 2011 12:38

How come its not 4th Gen(Ref:Livefist) if it has a fully functional FBW?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2011 12:46

well maybe he meant it does not fire a BVR aam from a fully finished radar yet...

but then this whole "gen" thing is a psyops term. can be stretched, compressed, torn apart, distorted to suit whoever is in power.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2011 12:51

if you choose to believe wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_gen ... et_fighter

The Fourth generation jet fighter defining point is Fly-by-wire, like 4.5 is defined on AESA radar.

The United States Government defines 4.5 generation fighter aircraft as fourth generation jet fighters that have been upgraded with AESA radar, high capacity data-link, enhanced avionics, and "the ability to deploy current and reasonably foreseeable advanced armaments.

---
I would go out on a limb and say the IAF chief was not correct in his terms....Tejas refinements will bring it upto 4.5 gen status, it was 4th gen the day it was born already.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 10 Jan 2011 12:52

"At present it is not a fourth generation aircraft. It will come up. There are several refinements required."

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jan 2011 12:54

Raja Bose wrote:Amongst the test pilots, there is one listed as Ritu Raj something. We have a female test pilot at the NFTC?!

rituraj = king of seasons, not a female name.

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 10 Jan 2011 13:36

Here is the video report by Mr. Rajiv Ranjan...

http://khabar.ndtv.com/MoreVideos.aspx? ... tatus=true

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Jan 2011 13:46

I think I will draw some flak for this post. But none the less I will just say it.

My understanding (in my most humblest stead) of what the ACM is trying to do is that he is being the hard nosed customer. He is not wrong, he is the leader of a force which will pay with limbs and lives and ofcourse national integrity for compromises. LCA as of today is the work, dream and efforts of a dedicated team who have really performed a fabulous job in the most trying and thankless environment. It is truly a world class product.

I am sure that the ACM is as aware if not more of the capabilities of the Tejas as anybody else. But he is trying the keep Tejas team on their toes. The work truly hasn't been completed. It will be with MkII and AMCA. Till then, we have to keep the lease tight.

At the same time, along with strictness their should be some reinforcement for good work. An order of a couple of more squadrons for a fighter which comes at 30-35 million a piece can not be bad for an AF which is low on aircrafts. My gut feeling is that it will come, once the two squadrons are fielded. The true icing on the cake will be an order of 2 more squadrons in the coming years so that we can go full steam (at 20 aircrafts per year) from 2013 till IOC of Tejas Mk II.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 10 Jan 2011 13:52

indranilroy wrote:
I am sure that the ACM is more aware of the capabilities of the Tejas as well as anybody else. But he is trying the keep team on their toes. The work truly hasn't been completed. It will be with MkII and AMCA. Till then, we have to keep the lease tight.

I do not think that he means mk2. At present, LCA is neither BVR capable nor can it drop PGMs. Of course, this is only to be expected at present. So I think what ACM means is that mk1 would be a true 4gen a/c after FOC. Anyways, I have always found the generations stuff very confusing but this is my understanding of his statement.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Jan 2011 14:00

^^^ Gaur sahab that is why I never spoke of generations. I missed out LCAMk1 FOC. LCA Mk I at FOC will be a first rate 4th-gen aircraft. I mean we shouldn't slack now. We have the momentum, we should remind ourselves that the worst is behind us. But we still have lots of work to do.

I think, by that time the IAF will have a good taste of the LCA and will order in a couple of squadrons at 20 aircraft every year till MkII IOC.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 10 Jan 2011 14:06

indranilroy wrote:^^^ Gaur sahab that is why I never spoke of generations. I missed out LCAMk1 FOC. LCA Mk I at FOC will be a first rate 4th-gen aircraft. I mean we shouldn't slack now. We have the momentum, we should remind ourselves that the worst is behind us. But we still have lots of work to do.

I think, by that time the IAF will have a good taste of the LCA and will order in a couple of squadrons at 20 aircraft every year till MkII IOC.

Yes, I too fervently hope that mk1 order increases and I see no reason why that would not happen once the production stabilizes and IAF gets to know the a/c better. I know that many have expressed their anguish at IAF for not having ordered more mk1s already but to me their way seems more prudent. However, considering that this has been debated numerous times with great zeal, I would rather not go into that again.
BTW, I would really request you would drop the sahab. It is really unnecessary.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Jan 2011 14:12

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Jan 2011 14:20

^^^ Who was this?

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2011 14:48

Bhartayide bhartayide bhartayide

Someone giving tough competition to Tejas at 2.57

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Jan 2011 15:01

Thats yahoo news service

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2011 15:10

yes and the Yahooo news service with a live show is better than the other news services.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Jan 2011 15:12

LCA Tejas handed over to Indian Air force, IAF Chief clarifies it is a fourth gen aircraft

The day was not without controversy. IAF Chief was misunderstood as saying that it was not a Fourth Generation aircraft. Air Chief Marshal PV Naik later clarified that it was a fourth generation aircraft. He said that some systems and maneuvers have to be finalized leading to the FOC.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Jan 2011 15:19

Tejas' "moment of tooth" has arrived!

Yes,it has finally entered service,a bit short in the "tooth" warfare wise,but nevertheless in a short time it will be despatched to its southern Sulur base and there to refine its skills and when called upon to do battle and "bite" the enemy.Forget the TOI and "totally indigenous" nonsense.The main achievement is that it has been "designed" totally indigenously even if it has key foreign components like the engine,radar,weaponry,etc.The fact is that we have for the first time since the HF-24,been able to put together a fighter with contemporary technology in FBW,composites,etc.,that too in a very small package.If we can produce the LCA in MK-2 form in accelerated production at a cost significantly lower than foreign manufacturers,it will then be possible to have a sufficiently large enough number of LCAs to bolster the expanding numbers of the IAF needed to do service to meet the challenge from the Sino-Pak monster.The LCA's success will then enable us to move ahead with confidence and get started on the AMCA later on,as work on the FGFA is now the key priority.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 10 Jan 2011 15:34

Philip wrote:The LCA's success will then enable us to move ahead with confidence and get started on the AMCA later on,as work on the FGFA is now the key priority.

lol. Philiphosky strikes.

Mr.Philiphosky, both are top priorities. Not one above the other.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 10 Jan 2011 15:41

The value of these 40 aircraft is estimated around Rs. 7,000 crore.

So Tejas MK1 costs about 175 crores each which translates to ~ 39 million USD going by today's exchange rate of ~45.

Cheers....

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Jan 2011 16:01

Congratulations the Tejas team, ex-members of the LCA team, DRDO, Raksha Mantri(s) & IAF Chiefs for persisting with the LCA programme in the face of a plethora of hurdles. This is a massive achievement and you guys & girls deserve praise from and gratitude of this nation.

rahuldevnath · Post by **rahuldevnath** » 10 Jan 2011 16:32

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/TN ... directlink

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 10 Jan 2011 16:36

congratulations to all the Tejas members.
great hearing the news early am.
Jai hind. salute to all members for your hard work dedication and unrelenting perseverance in face of adversity(tech denial...)

Vikram W · Post by **Vikram W** » 10 Jan 2011 16:39

I was pissed that DD News showed all the speeches, press conferences even the test flight and then cut to the 2g scam just before the actual flying display

also, was it AK Anthony's bday today ? coincidence ??

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Jan 2011 17:26

Congratulations ADA and Team Tejas on this Fantastic Achievement , Kudos !

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Jan 2011 17:27

Tejas IOC is a milestone in many ways. Hurrah and hajaar congratulations to all those who toiled away unsung for this outcome.

Arya Sumantra · Post by **Arya Sumantra** » 10 Jan 2011 17:45

Congrats to all involved with Tejas. Hopefully a high production rate facility with commonality/flexibility to fabricate mk2 & amca subsequently from same unit will be set up. And may GoI allot a higher sanctioned fleet strength for IAF if the fighter bought was indigenous. A big salute to the efforts and sacrifices made by the team.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jan 2011 19:07

congrats to everyone involved ! now, on to the even more critical Mk2.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Jan 2011 19:12

TV9 was reporting IN might order 40 Tejas-N to replace and go beyond the limited sea harrier fleet.

with the Tejas-N flight due in 3 months, India will go where gripen, ef and raptor failed to gather support

narmad · Post by **narmad** » 10 Jan 2011 19:14

indranilroy : My understanding (in my most humblest stead) of what the ACM is trying to do is that he is being the hard nosed customer.

First he should not consider himself a customer.
Second, this was not the day and platform to belittle the effort.
somehow it looks like the Airforce is still does not comfortable relationship with the Scientists ( Things never change much do they ).

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Jan 2011 19:33

Singha wrote:if you choose to believe wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_gen ... et_fighter

The Fourth generation jet fighter defining point is Fly-by-wire, like 4.5 is defined on AESA radar.

The United States Government defines 4.5 generation fighter aircraft as fourth generation jet fighters that have been upgraded with AESA radar, high capacity data-link, enhanced avionics, and "the ability to deploy current and reasonably foreseeable advanced armaments.

---
I would go out on a limb and say the IAF chief was not correct in his terms....Tejas refinements will bring it upto 4.5 gen status, it was 4th gen the day it was born already.

The wiki link doesnt list Tejas as Fourth generation figher aircraft. So may be IAF Chief was reading wiki lately i guess.

Aircraft classified by the US government as fourth-generation jet fighters are those in service approximately from 1980 to 2010, representing the design concepts of the 1970s. Representative fighters include the F-CK-1, Mirage 2000, J-10, J-11, F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, JF-17, MiG-29, and Su-27.

To reason with, Fourth gen. comes with pulse doppler radar & BVR capabilities. Refinement in this dept is still to be completed, i guess he is referring to that indirectly as not presently being 4th gen. Not sure whether his reference is to with Radar or BVR.

When the same Fourth gen comes with advanced avionics, then it is referred as 4+ for marketing pitch and to differentiate from the rest.

In the early days of Su-30MKI, Russians refer it as 4+ and as 4.5 and projected that has having technologies that goes into 5th gen as their pitch. I think their reference is to the capabilities more than that of the technologies. There was a lengthy discussion in BR about the capabilities of MKI radar.

So if the 4th gen comes with some of the 5th gen technologies like AESA, stealth improvements, super cruise, advanced avionics it is referred as 4.5 and 4++ gen. To put gen number, MMRCA that wins the race is expected to be 4.5 gen or 4.5+ gen. I think one can expect LCA MK2 to be of that standard and Mk1 to be of 4+. JMT.

P.S. I very much like to comment on that statement from IAF Chief and the publicity given to that by the journalist and i guess this is not the time for that.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Jan 2011 19:34

narmad wrote:
indranilroy : My understanding (in my most humblest stead) of what the ACM is trying to do is that he is being the hard nosed customer.
First he should not consider himself a customer.
Second, this was not the day and platform to belittle the effort.
somehow it looks like the Airforce is still does not comfortable relationship with the Scientists ( Things never change much do they ).

Well said, sir.