LCA News and Discussions

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Jan 2011 19:36

Singha wrote:TV9 was reporting IN might order 40 Tejas-N to replace and go beyond the limited sea harrier fleet.

with the Tejas-N flight due in 3 months, India will go where gripen, ef and raptor failed to gather support

Is that MK1?

We already know that the order from IN would be for 50 Tejas in Mk2 std. ADA chief expressing hope that IAF alone will order around 200 Tejas.

SanjibGhosh · Post by **SanjibGhosh** » 10 Jan 2011 19:38

narmad wrote:
indranilroy : My understanding (in my most humblest stead) of what the ACM is trying to do is that he is being the hard nosed customer.
First he should not consider himself a customer.
Second, this was not the day and platform to belittle the effort.
somehow it looks like the Airforce is still does not comfortable relationship with the Scientists ( Things never change much do they ).

IAF indeed a customer. I don't think that there is anything wrong to put HAL/ADA on toes to get the maximum. There always should be a reality check
and I don't think that there is any harm in that as long they support the indigenous project and help them to succeed. Which I think is the case here.

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 10 Jan 2011 19:42

Congratulations to Team Tejas and all those involved to make IOC possible.
Those guys succeded in the face of external sanctions, political indecision, babu apathy,
public ridicule, user's ambiguous goals, shoe string budgets, manpower attrition...............

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 10 Jan 2011 19:48

Can we have a Mk 2 wish list. Or a list of features that we would like to see in that aircraft.

Please don't ask for a toaster

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 10 Jan 2011 19:50

Part-1: Celebrating Tejas IOC: A video, courtesy ADA - Tarmak007

akashganga · Post by **akashganga** » 10 Jan 2011 19:51

Congratulations TEJAS team and IAF for achieving this historic first in India. Against all odds you did it. In the last decade I have seen so many negative articles against Tejas. Braving all odds you did and did the country proud. I am sure in the next generation India will rollout next generations of fighter jets as good as any foreign made.

cheers
shiva

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 10 Jan 2011 20:02

Take a bow Tejas team!!! You showed us what dogged determination can do. This is the stuff I want my kid to be made of!
You have made India very proud even if most of India don't realize what a fantastic achievement this is. A lot of foreign countries are increasingly offering their "wonderwares" to us these days. Your achievement in dreaming, designing and delivering the LCA has a lot to do with it.

Congratulations and wish you many more success!!!
Jai Hind!!!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Jan 2011 20:22

DRDO has sent a small doc and I culled out important info. it clears some issues.

LCA Tejas, the way forward

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 10 Jan 2011 20:25

Thank you, Team Tejas, for choosing to share information of your progress via the ADA website over so many years. While many, including me, have lamented and wished that your's was a better website, the truth is that you could've very well chosen to share nothing at all. Many of us have longed for any and every news of progress and lived by what you have let us know.

Thank you.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Jan 2011 20:30

chackojoseph wrote:DRDO has sent a small doc and I culled out important info. it clears some issues.

LCA Tejas, the way forward

The Final Operational Clearance of Mk 1 by 2012

Thanks Joseph.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Jan 2011 20:35

See i told you so..... it will clear many doubts.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 10 Jan 2011 20:46

2016 for MKII ??? you can take +1 yr as margin.

Production rate is really slow, as it will be 10 yrs to realize an order of 100!! Thats like 2025 something.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Jan 2011 20:54

Ofcourse

, it clears many misrepresentation from misreported number and dates of Mk1 and if this matters, i didnt believe those dates. On the delivery of aircraft starting from LSP-7 & 8 to series production, this should be taken as reference.

I think in the interest everyone this needs further clarification; need your help.
http://frontierindia.net/lca-tejas-hand ... n-aircraft

IAF had announced plans for five LCA Tejas squadrons in the coming years. It means some 100 aircraft’s will be producted with more powerful engine.

Aroor reporting this as 80+ on this IOC eve and not as 100 as earlier believed. If not now, it will be taken for discussion sometime in future. Is it was mentioned as 5 sqd or in specific numbers as Aroor reported.

The IAF plans to ultimately have around 10 LCA Tejas squadrons to replace Russian MiG-21

IAF plans - so far we heard about 7 sqd. I heard ADA chief talks about 200 numbers for IAF alone. Similar unoffical IAF plans?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 10 Jan 2011 21:02

Jai Hind.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 10 Jan 2011 21:11

Marten wrote:Sid, does the report say that or is that your opinion stinking up the thread*?
Yup, that's what an opinion sounds like when it is trying to pass off as fact.

Its in the report sir.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jan 2011 21:39

From joseph's link, the monies would be like 160 a/cs consider a rounded figure about $30million per tejas mk2. So confirms 7-8 squadrons of LCA tejas mk2

SanjibGhosh · Post by **SanjibGhosh** » 10 Jan 2011 21:42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZhpvRVbYec

Ak-47 .... see our reporters ... it is at around 2:39....

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 10 Jan 2011 21:45

Kanson wrote:Aroor reporting this as 80+ on this IOC eve and not as 100 as earlier believed. If not now, it will be taken for discussion sometime in future. Is it was mentioned as 5 sqd or in specific numbers as Aroor reported.

IAF plans - so far we heard about 7 sqd. I heard ADA chief talks about 200 numbers for IAF alone. Similar unoffical IAF plans?

As I said, this is the DRDO document.

I was watching CNN_IBN, they too quoted from the document I guess.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 10 Jan 2011 21:59

SanjibGhosh wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZhpvRVbYec

Ak-47 .... see our reporters ... it is at around 2:39....

I took my keyboard and banged it against my head .. it was that horrible watching it..

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 10 Jan 2011 22:02

Marten wrote:
SanjibGhosh wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZhpvRVbYec
Ak-47 .... see our reporters ... it is at around 2:39....

AK-47 ya jis bhi tareeke ke gun yahan....

Aaj Tak started with such a promising standard a decade back and since then it is all downhill....

I think they sent a bollywood reporter for the event... pathetic

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jan 2011 22:03

going to 2:39 itself was a struggle. and kept on insisting 'desh me bana hua pehla ladaku biman'.

morons !

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 10 Jan 2011 22:21

Did anyone notice the speed..it was 2376 km/hr...?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 10 Jan 2011 22:43

what is wrong with that ? it's close to the LCA's topspeed.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Jan 2011 22:48

Kakarat wrote:Part-1: Celebrating Tejas IOC: A video, courtesy ADA - Tarmak007

Shivji attention please at 32 second of the video

.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jan 2011 22:52

http://www.globalaircraft.org/converter.htm
exceeds mach 2.2 from this converter link. ?

arya · Post by **arya** » 10 Jan 2011 22:58

Mohtarma I am not able to see u

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 10 Jan 2011 23:03

No reporter is doing any good job. A journalist's job is to interrogate the subject and get the answers to paint a bigger picture. None of these dumbos asked questions(atleast i am not aware of) on AoA, spin recovery, night trials, weapons, left, to be integrated or a simple question, radar integrated or the trainer. On livefist the chief says tejas is mig21++, cant the journo ask well if that is the case why dont you go for more. Not that this question will influence the chief or anyone, but it will bring the focus back on to the chief shifting it from the researchers. My impulsive reaction to the 4th gen assertion by the chief was do you mean it is not 4th generation by IOC or 4th generation by FOC. I am waiting for tarmak's report he surely will do far better than these guys.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Jan 2011 23:04

Please notice the centerline pylon besides the LITENING pod.

archan · Post by **archan** » 10 Jan 2011 23:17

Jai ho! my dedication to all those who made it a reality..

तुम ही हो सच्चे सेवक, तुम ही हो सच्चे रक्षक,
देख तुम्हे हैं अब जलते, सीमा पार खड़े वो भक्षक,
हों भिक्षा में मिले F-सोलह, या दान के हों बन्दर,
तेजस के ओज से जलती, भय की ज्वाला सबके अन्दर,
जय जय हो गुणगान तुम्हारा, ओ भारत के वीर प्रखर,
यही प्रार्थना है अब मेरी, राज करो तुम अम्बर पर.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 10 Jan 2011 23:53

congrats to all!

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 11 Jan 2011 00:17

Marten wrote:I really could not find this part. My apologies... could you please dredge it up from the report if you don't mind?

Marten, I wont bog down the festive mood in this thread

. I picked up conclusions only from a posted article. Take starting point from 2016 (+1 if you can), and go by 10 a/c per year. Even if you pick up 15 a/c per year you can see production lines open till 2023.

I really hope I am wrong here.

http://frontierindia.net/lca-tejas-the-way-forward

The first 20 aircraft would be delivered by 2013 and the next 20 aircraft in about 2½ years after that. Tejas Mark 2 with higher thrust engines will have its first flight in December 2014. Production version of Mark 2 will be in June 2016. Overall funds allocation for development and production is of the order of Rs 25000/- crores

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 11 Jan 2011 00:21

indranilroy wrote:Please notice the centerline pylon besides the LITENING pod.

Nice catch.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 11 Jan 2011 00:29

What a great day for India! My heartiest congratulations to everyone involved!

The Tarmak007 blog has some great stories on the history of the LCA program. The sacrifices of those involved are awe-inspiring.
For instance: http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/01/f ... l-one.html
Jai Hind.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 11 Jan 2011 00:59

Oh yes and how much is 17000 crore , umm let me see about 4 billion dollars. How much are we spending on 10 VHTAC ooh aaah 4.4 billion dollars.

So DDM will criticize a project that has created an aerospace industry in India from zero for being over budget ....

and then they will talk about gazillion percent cost increase by comparing a 2010 rupee figure with a 1983 figure .... hmm

Does the word M*chod mean anything? anyone?

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 11 Jan 2011 01:04

And I am sorry to say but on a day like this the AF should really *not* behave like a customer. Forget western air chiefs who behave like bloody salesman ... but I think sounding *much* *much* *more* positive on this development would have been better from a national power projection point of view.

I think Indians of all denominations and all professions really g*t off somewhere through self-derision. Of course in India self-flagellation will be praised by other flagellators as being "realistic", "sound" and "necessary to keep one on their toes" and the encomiums will follow ...

Take the Arjun tank. Western observers to this date keep talking about the project in uncertain terms and deem the tank a loser even though it conclusively proved otherwise on kurukshetra redux ( what a way to silence your critics) and the reason for that is simple - all the stupid things *Indians* that's right *us bloody Indians* wrote about it and said about it- an effing unfairly as has been clearly borne out. Indians somehow think that *others* will *intuitively* discover *India's innate greatness* even as they constantly keep putting down their own countrymen and their own produce in an orgy of overcriticism.

But Arjun won at the end and so has Tejas. And now like a typical Indian let me take recourse to our ancient wisdom and say:

Satyameva Jayate.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 11 Jan 2011 01:14

^^^ Its easy for us to be all hunky dory on a forum.

Its not as easy for ACM. He is responsible and answerable for a hell not more.

But you are right that he could have chosen a different occasion.

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 11 Jan 2011 01:20

SanjibGhosh wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZhpvRVbYec

Ak-47 .... see our reporters ... it is at around 2:39....

Well at least she got the country of origin right (that should be something

), unlike that LCH report that showed a Mi 35 and called it Apache.

@4:40 "is saal ke ant tak 4 aircraft tyar ho jayenge".

Why do we even bother wasting our time on such videos. These journos have no motivation to get their basics right (let alone providing some specifics). All they do is stuff like "Woh aa raha hai" etc... stuff that may appeal to common man who will forget all about this in a few days but is sacrilegious to us.

@ IAF chief's comments, I guess what he meant is that LCA will be a true 4th gen (even 4+) a/c by the time it gets FOC. As right now, there is no BVR, I am not sure if A-G radar modes have been tested. Need to do high G and high alpha tests. Need to actually hit some PTA's (and validate the A-A modes) and perform Precision guiding (drop some sudarshans maybe). Anthony also mentioned something about them expecting the quality of the aircraft to increase as serial production starts.

As of now, all that has been demonstrated is that it can fly, can fire missiles, can drop bombs and can track targets (?). How effectively does it do all this will be tested in the next two years which in turn will increase confidence of the user.

What i cannot understand is that Mk1 (after FOC) would turn out to be equal to (if not better) than the upgraded M 2000's. So, why not order more, though production rates will have to be increased so that all are inducted before Mk2 induction begins.

I hope that more will be ordered once IAF gets to test the aircraft and if HAL can churn these out quickly enough.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 11 Jan 2011 01:27

gleaned from livefist

IAF Grudgingly Accepts Tejas IOC, Wants 83 Mk-IIs

ADA said in a statement that the following would bridge the gap between initial and final operational clearance: integration of beyond visual range weapons, gun, rockets, guided and unguided bombs, and the further expansion of its flight envelope to -3.5 to 8G (-2 to 6G for IOC) and 24-degrees angle of attack (22 for IOC).

We are almost there with the AoA thing, or is the last mile the most difficult. Btw wherent unguided bombs already tested ?

from tarmak
http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/01/p ... india.html

Enter Antony, patting Dr Kota Harinarayana. He called him the Bhageeratha of 21st Century. “He is an example for others to emulate,” Antony said.

Tejas is currently 60% indigenous and eventually will be 75 per cent by FOC.

Is this by part count or subsystem wise

R.K. Singh, Secretary Defense Production, said that the Arjun MBT delivery will be completed this fiscal and the Army, according to him, is extremely happy. He said HAL’s IJT will get IOC in June and then touched upon FGFA and stuff like that.

Then it was time for the flying display and press meet. The display was just okay considering that the NFTC had decided not to perform anything spectacular, but have a very quiet and low key flying. That was the brief from the top. PV2, PV3 and LSP4 took-off and landed.

Why

from Aviation week

Naik says the Tejas is not quite ready to be truly called a fourth-generation aircraft. “I hope that the issues related to wake penetration [testing ability to cope with turbulence], all-weather clearance [and] lightning clearance will be looked into by June,”

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 11 Jan 2011 01:41

Congrats to ADA, HAL, DRDO and everyone involved in the project

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Jan 2011 01:52

>> Is this by part count or subsystem wise

costwise most likely.