Indian Interests

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 19 Jan 2011 02:56

Acharya wrote:
brihaspati wrote:
However - feudal attitudes towards power and keeping it in the family remains and is the only common value shared with the "old".
What about national interest.
The new feudals have a hazy view of the national interest and long term vision

True. But even the old feudals they replaced were really not "very old" - the key figures, like say Scindhia, or the various "kings/princes" along Punjab, were all creations of the struggle against the Mughals and not all of them had a very long feudal lordship before that. Even the early Brit installations who became feudals under patronage were basically powerless by the time of Independence. It was the "professionals" and the "traders/merchant princes" who acquired feudal characteristics - because the society has its own inertial idea about what it means to be an "elite".

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Jan 2011 03:26

brihaspati wrote:
True. But even the old feudals they replaced were really not "very old" - the key figures, like say Scindhia, or the various "kings/princes" along Punjab, were all creations of the struggle against the Mughals and not all of them had a very long feudal lordship before that. Even the early Brit installations who became feudals under patronage were basically powerless by the time of Independence. It was the "professionals" and the "traders/merchant princes" who acquired feudal characteristics - because the society has its own inertial idea about what it means to be an "elite".

The current class of the moneyed rich class in the urban area have become feudals and they are demanding positions without responsibility. They also are not well educated but with lots of money and have rowdy attitude towards the masses.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 19 Jan 2011 03:49

What have the FHL's got to say on this!

Deoband chief lauds Modi's Gujarat

SURAT: The new Darul Uloom vice-chancellor, Maulana Ghulam Mohammed Vastanvi, said "all communities" are prospering in Narendra Modi's Gujarat and there was "no discrimination against the minorities in the state

"The issue is almost eight years old now and we should move forward," Vastanvi told TOI on Tuesday. "Rioting anywhere — in Gujarat or in any other part of the world — is bad for humanity and it should never happen.

But he differed with what many activists working among the riot victims or the UPA government at the Centre claim about continuing discrimination against Muslims in Gujarat. He said, "As far as relief work riot is concerned, it has been carried out very well by government

He said, "Development has undoubtedly taken place in Gujarat and we hope it will continue. I ask Muslims to study well. The government is ready to offer jobs (to them), but for that, they need good education."

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Jan 2011 06:17

He said, "Development has undoubtedly taken place in Gujarat and we hope it will continue. I ask Muslims to study well. The government is ready to offer jobs (to them), but for that, they need good education."

This is wonderful!

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 19 Jan 2011 07:40

SwamyG wrote:
Arjun wrote:More folks internationally and in the country recognizing India for what it is....A monarchy. With even the BBC giving this coverage, one can be sure this will get good play.

Way to go !!

India Sliding into a Monarchy
Seems to be a hit piece on India.

Surely...but this time with justification. And consequences of the message seeping in are only positive. Am all for it !

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Jan 2011 07:52

Arjun wrote:[ More folks internationally and in the country recognizing India for what it is....A monarchy. With even the BBC giving this coverage, one can be sure this will get good play.

Way to go !!

Seems to be a hit piece on India.
Surely...but this time with justification. And consequences of the message seeping in are only positive. Am all for it !

We need Indians to talk about it and do the telling

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 19 Jan 2011 08:29

Acharya wrote:We need Indians to talk about it and do the telling

Agree with you...but they've not proved up to the challenge so far! Am more focused on the end-result (hopefully a widespread disgust at the 'new feudalism' in politics) than about the process. Whatever catches the mice...

Also, DDM 'intellectuals' in India broadly speaking continue to take their cues from the West...so having a Westerner write it does make the message more effective. This will change in about 30 years when aam janta perceive their own country to be at par / above the West in terms of power - but till then I don't see why one can't use this dynamic for own benefit...The Indian can be the brain behind the concept and the Westerner can be the face propagating it....

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Jan 2011 10:41

Arjun wrote: Whatever catches the mice...

Indian mice to be caught by Indians.
They did not come to expose 2G scam. They were part of the bribe giving and they are not doing any favors to Indians by this report

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 19 Jan 2011 20:43

Arjun wrote:Surely...but this time with justification. And consequences of the message seeping in are only positive. Am all for it !

What justification?

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 20 Jan 2011 06:16

India, largely a country of immigrants-supreme court

A Supreme Court judgment projects the historical thesis that India is largely a country of old immigrants and that pre-Dravidian aborigines, ancestors of the present Adivasis, rather than Dravidians, were the original inhabitants of India.

If North America is predominantly made up of new immigrants, India is largely a country of old immigrants, (WTF) which explains its tremendous diversity. It follows that tolerance and equal respect for all communities and sects are an absolute imperative if we wish to keep India united. If it was believed at one time that Dravidians were the original inhabitants of India, that view has since been considerably modified. Now the generally accepted belief is that the pre-Dravidian aborigines, that is, the ancestors of the present tribals or Adivasis (Scheduled Tribes), were the original inhabitants. This is the thesis put forward in a judgment delivered on January 5, 2011 by a Supreme Court of India Bench comprising Justice Markandey Katju and Justice Gyan Sudha Misra. This historical disquisition came in Criminal Appeal No. 11 of 2011, arising out of Special Leave Petition No. 10367 of 2010 in Kailas & Others versus State of Maharashtra TR. Taluka P.S.

Hope this is the correct thread

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Jan 2011 06:18

yes, Humans came to India 100,000 years ago before other regions were inhabited. This is wonderful.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Jan 2011 06:21

This view, propounded by colonial scholars a hundred years ago has been fully discredited by science, especially genetics. Luigi Luca Cavlli-Sforza of Stanford University, the world's foremost population geneticist, has emphasized that the Indian population, both caste and tribal is largely indigenous that has received very 'limited gene flow since the Holocene' meaning since the end of the last Ice Age more than 10,000 years ago. The honorable justices, not scientists, have simply rehashed the hundred year old race theory recast in linguistic terms. No knowledgeable scientist will accept it. It was a political creation, not a scientific one.
from: N.S. Rajaram
Posted on: Jan 13, 2011 at 06:26 IST

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 20 Jan 2011 06:56

deleted- wrong thread

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 20 Jan 2011 09:15

SwamyG wrote:
Arjun wrote:Surely...but this time with justification. And consequences of the message seeping in are only positive. Am all for it !
What justification?

Am surprised you ask the question! Political dynasties and feudalism in Indian politics - to an extent that it has become a complete subversion of Indian democracy.

Refer to Manny's and Ramana's posts in previous page of this same thread.

There is no comparison with any other half-decent democracy in terms of the seriousness of this rot. Talk of Bushes / Kennedys when one talks about the scale of problem of political dynasties in India is like doing an == between Taliban and RSS OR India / Pak. Folks doing this have no clue whatsoever.

SwamyG wrote:Forms of government are of limited interest onlee. Monarchy, anarchy, democracy itiyadi.....do the people see a scope for material and spiritual growth? If yes, a big problem solved. People need roti, kapda, makkan aur izzat.

What was the problem with the British ruling India - boiled down to izzat? The problem of political dynasty is fast approaching the same scale.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 20 Jan 2011 20:26

We have a problem of the foreigners doing social engineering on Indians using media for the last 100 years.
It is there even now.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 00:08

Very disturbing the nexus in India between hardline Islamists and Seculars and US.

Deoband pat to Modi upsets clerics

New Delhi, Jan. 19: The praise from the chief of Deoband’s Dar-ul-Uloom seminary for Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi has riled Muslim leaders and opinion-makers.

Separately, most of them demanded that the chief of one of the Islam world’s most well-respected seminaries, Maulana Ghulam Mohammed Wastanavi, should either recant his endorsement for Modi or apologise to Muslims.

Wastanavi is from Gujarat and did an MBA in Maharashtra.

His election against two veteran contenders of Deoband was seen to mark a generational shift at the seminary in more ways than one.

Barely four days after taking over, he told an English daily that the Muslims of Gujarat must move forward instead of getting obsessed with the 2002 violence and stated there was no discrimination against Muslims in development in the state.

Maulana Khalid Rasheed, the Nani imam of Lucknow’s Aishbagh Idgah mosque, said: “The statements are highly irresponsible. Modi sponsored one of the most horrific genocides in India for which the US refuses to give him a visa. Secular Hindus are still fighting for justice to the victims. The Deoband Maulana is otherwise a good person. But he has undermined the institution’s prestige.”

Kamal Farooqi, a former minorities commission chairman and a member of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board, said: “His (Wastanavi’s) job is to issue religious edicts and not give a clean chit to a person no secular Hindu in India will appreciate.”

The Shahi Imam of Delhi’s Jama Masjid, Syed Ahmed Bukhari, said he would explore the possibility of “confronting” him with other clerics if he did not apologise quickly.

The only person to back Wastanavi is Zafar-ul Islam, the editor of an English daily Milli Gazette and former head of the Muslim Musharawat.

See the overt and covert nexus between the three groups?

Devendra · Post by **Devendra** » 21 Jan 2011 00:37

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sc-sl ... es/740095/

http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/nationa ... 09772.html

The Supreme Court on Thursday came down heavily on social activist Teesta Setalvad for raising the issue of post-Godhra riots of Gujarat with foreign organisations saying that it can take care of the cases and no interference is required from overseas human rights groups.

"We don't appreciate that other organisations interfere in our functioning. We can take care of (them) ourselves and cannot get guided by others. It's a direct interference in our functioning. We don't appreciate it," a special bench headed by Justice D K Jain said.

The court was anguished that the NGO, Centre for Justice and Peace (CJP), headed by Setalvad approached Geneva-based Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights raising the issue of protection of witnesses in riots cases.

"You seem to have more faith in foreign organisations than this court. It seems that witnesses would be protected by these organisations," the bench remarked adding that if such letters are written then the court would pass the order without hearing the contentions of the CJP.

Now these fake secularists have doubts on the investigation done by SIT which is appointed and governed by the supreme court of India!!!! They are writing to foreign nations to pressurize SC to prosecute Modi (even if he is not found guilty).

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 Jan 2011 06:40

For once Sonia's NAC seems to have taken a sensible stand:

Govt's proposed RTI rules may encourage murder, blackmail: NAC - http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... el/740016/

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 Jan 2011 07:16

A storm in a teacup over William Dalrymple and the Jaipur Literary Fest:

A fuming William Dalrymple declares war on 'blatantly racist' Indian journalist - http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willh ... ournalism/

See the original piece: The Literary Raj - http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... terary-raj

and the response: “The piece you ran is blatantly racist” - http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... tly-racist

and the response to the response: Does Dalrymple know what racism really is? - http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... -really-is

IMHO, the nomination (http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011 ... top-books/) by Dalrymple of the book "Curfewed Night" by the constipated Wahhabi Basharat Peer, ex-Soros Foundation fellow, is rather distasteful.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 22:56

More of the same. Orientalism redux!

Peter French new book

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Jan 2011 22:57

xpost
http://www.equitymaster.com/5MinWrapUp/ ... t-problems
Is only one man responsible for India's current problems?

When Manmohan Singh was re-elected to the post of the Prime Minister two years ago, the nation's response was euphoric. Stock markets on that day zoomed. And with the Congress party getting such a thumping majority, Indians were relieved. The hope was that with more stability at the centre and less pandering to coalition parties, the Congress would be able to get down to some serious business and undertake the much needed reforms. Sadly, so far that has not been the case. Rather than tough reforms, what we have been witness to is a slew of corruption and scandals, rising food prices and inflation, bloated government deficits and ever increasing subsidies. Not much seems to have been done on the oldest ills afflicting India either; notably its crumbling infrastructure and crippling poverty. Part of the blame has been laid on Manmohan Singh's inability to get the government cracking. The Prime Minister is highly respected for his credentials and impeccable integrity. But his indecision on various important matters could prove to be his undoing in the future. This is despite the weak opposition which is beset by its own set of problems. Decisions on issues such as raising caps on foreign investment in pension and insurance sectors to paring down food, energy and fertiliser subsidies, remain as unsolved as ever. The Prime Minister's major cabinet reshuffle this week does not seem to have enthused anyone either. In fact, it has only displayed his unwillingness to let some nonperforming ministers go.
There is one thing that Manmohan Singh can bank on. That is of the Indian economy growing at a brisk pace inspite of the government's ineffectual policies. What the Prime Minister needs to do is step on the gas and rework some of his magic that had led to India's liberalization in the early 1990s. Of course, that is easier said than done. But a firm leadership and serious reforms will go a long way in improving India's economic health in the future. Do you think one should blame only the PM for the problems India is currently facing? Let us know or post comments on our Facebook page.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 22:59

One odd thing I noted is that despite the economic growth its not attributed to INC in the states run by them. Its lla MMS magic. Very frustrating for the party hacks.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 21 Jan 2011 23:12

Actually, the criticism against Dalrymple is not his role in the Indian literary scene, which is non-offensive. It is his tendency to tell Indians how they should feel about their history, specifically the Moslem and Mughul invasions and rule. He tries to make that period sound so benign and wonderful, whereas a large number of Indians see it as quite negative and brutal. Richard Eaton and Martha Nussbaum are other writers who presumptuously intrude into these matters, to hector Indians about how they feel about the medieval period of Islamic invasions and depradations.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2011 23:14

Don't forget he prides in his ancestry claiming descent from Nizam's court. So its really ancestral pride comingled with Briths hectoring.

MN is class by herself! She wants to pin Hitler on Hindus in order to save Christianity.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Jan 2011 23:20

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Actually, the criticism against Dalrymple is not his role in the Indian literary scene, which is non-offensive. It is his tendency to tell Indians how they should feel about their history, specifically the Moslem and Mughul invasions and rule. He tries to make that period sound so benign and wonderful, whereas a large number of Indians see it as quite negative and brutal. Richard Eaton and Martha Nussbaum are other writers who presumptuously intrude into these matters, to hector Indians about how they feel about the medieval period of Islamic invasions and depradations.

Such people are called minders or enforcers.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 22 Jan 2011 00:24

Just out of curiosity, do these wrangles and controversies present themselves in other ex-colonies i.e Indonesia vs Netherlands, Vietnam vs France, Angola vs Portugal, Congo vs Belgium, or FTM, Malaysia vs the UK. My sense is( love to be wrong) the very environment in all those countries is not conducive to having these little rows and tiffs in the first place. India's environment is far more open and free, which allows a Dalrymple "controversy" to occur at all. In those other places, the accent has been on/still is on economic and political stability and ideological/intellectual conformity. Again, I stand to be corrected. To put it simply, do Indonesia and Congo have their versions of Dalrymple et al, and the rich debates they engender?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Jan 2011 00:28

because of the dominance of the deracinated elite, Indians allows such people to dominant the discussion and the real history of India is not being discussed.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 22 Jan 2011 00:38

That's probably true Acharya, and is a negative feature of India's environment. But isn't it intrinsically good, and a reflection of India's freedom and openness, that people like Dalrymple, Mark Tully, Patrick French, Edward Luce, Jeremy Seebrook et al, can speak and write pretty freely in India. And often inspire spirited debates and discussions. It is not at all clear that similar situations present themselves in Indonesia, Vietnam, Congo, Angola, Malaysia etc. I was asking curiously.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 22 Jan 2011 00:40

Is the DIE stronger in India than other nations, if so why is it or IOW why it is less in other nations and what lessons can we learn. Democracy and freedom of speech should cut both ways rather than increasing DIE only.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jan 2011 00:42

I would rather live in a Gulag under Stalin to have a strong motherland than live with the freedom where snakes bite infants and poison them to death before their lives begin.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Jan 2011 00:52

Varoon Shekhar wrote:That's probably true Acharya, and is a negative feature of India's environment. But isn't it intrinsically good, and a reflection of India's freedom and openness, that people like Dalrymple, Mark Tully, Patrick French, Edward Luce, Jeremy Seebrook et al, can speak and write pretty freely in India. And often inspire spirited debates and discussions. It is not at all clear that similar situations present themselves in Indonesia, Vietnam, Congo, Angola, Malaysia etc. I was asking curiously.

Ha Ha. Good question.

You need to start reading about India written by foreigners from 1900 and you can see a pattern.

Indians are not yet knowledgeable about the rest of the world due to large population and illiteracy. Bharatiya view of the rest of the world has not been propagated inside India and still not yet. Before even that the British view of the world and western view(euro) of the world has reached the brains of the Indian elite from early 1900s. Some of my family elders were like that. That is the success of the colonization.
They also penetrated Indian education system that euro world view and euro history is propagated to the new generation and they have less input on the Indian history. History is a false propaganda with narratives from British and the mughals dominating the text book. Hence the DIE is propagating itself using the education system.

After independence the generation was trapped in the cold war movement and leftist view that they never had the national interest of India at the top.
We are in the transition period where new generation who are born in the independent India and who are rooted in the Indian roots are building India's world view for the national interest of India.

Here we have now in the new century these new authors are coming and actually telling Indians how history should be looked at. That is why it is funny in 2011.

That's probably true Acharya, and is a negative feature of India's environment. But isn't it intrinsically good, and a reflection of India's freedom and openness,
The question is if the Indian narrative is dominant then this is intrinsically good

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2011 01:03

Sanku wrote:I would rather live in a Gulag under Stalin to have a strong motherland than live with the freedom where snakes bite infants and poison them to death before their lives begin.

Sanku, Dont ever wish for that. With freedom (not InDIEpendence) you can kiil the snakes and build a new zamana with a strong mathrubhumi.

Recall what advice Yuddhistir gives about being a das/slave i.e. unfree in the BR Chopra version. Short version: Never.
I think its as soul stirring as Alexander Solzhenytsin's (sp?) writings on the Gulag.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 22 Jan 2011 01:13

x-posting from internal security thread.
SC decries forceful religious conversions

New Delhi: The Supreme Court, while upholding life imprisonment for Dara Singh and Mahendra Hembram, main accused in the killing of Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two sons in Orissa's Koenjhar district in January 1999, also came down heavily on Christian missionaries for indulging in forceful conversions.

The bench of justices P Sathasivam and BS Chauhan observed that there cannot be any justification for interference in someone's belief while decrying forceful conversions. While delivering the verdict in the murder case on Friday the court observed that investigations reveal that Staines was involved in conversions and there are materials to suggest that the missionaries were indulging in forceful conversion in the area.

Dara Singh's lawyer SS Mishra said that the missionaries were indulging in forceful conversions and his client just wanted to threaten them and not kill Staines.

"There are materials which suggest that forceful conversion was there. However, so far as the material for conviction is concerned Supreme Court maintained the judgement of the High Court. There is no direct evidence, no one had seen crime done by accused. It appears that they had gone to threaten and teach them a lesson and not kill Staines," said Mishra.

Staines and his two sons, Philip (10) and Timothy (6) were burnt to death while they were sleeping inside a van outside a church at Manoharpur village in Koenjhar district of Orissa on January 22, 1999 by Dara Singh and Mahendra Hembram.

Both Singh and Hembram have been sentenced to life in the case.

To me this looks like another nail in the coffin for conversions and EJ activities.
I guess even in in this dire-circumstances, India may have done a pretty good job regarding dealing with this menace. Several states including Orissa has passed anti-conversion laws. In addition, Chidu has passed a bill that will throttle the money flow into conversions.

Now these observations from SC are useful references for all future legal battle. Legal and law fixation is pretty much done. Some more could be done on another day.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Jan 2011 01:26

Thank you Gurudev.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jan 2011 02:27

ramana wrote:
Sanku wrote:Ibite infants and poison them to death before their lives begin.
Sanku, Dont ever wish for that. With freedom (not InDIE-pendence) you can kiil the snakes and build a new zamana with a strong mathrubhumi.

Paap ka ghara full ho ke toot tha hai. let Congress keep making Shishupal mistaks. Genuine Rosh is always slow to rise but when it does , it wipes the slate clean. Unmasking of them at every occasion is more important right now than any immediate gain. They are fighting against time .

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 22 Jan 2011 02:50

What a coincidence...very timely article.

Is India sliding into a hereditary monarchy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters ... nto_a.html

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Jan 2011 05:15

http://www.todaysviews.com/?p=1143
Hindus were not original inhabitants of India
( BDY of all kind gather with each others, BCs dont even know the term Snatan )

An ethnic Adivasi woman from the Kutia Kondh tribal group in Orissa, India Dr. Jamil Khan should be credited for tremendous research on the subject of Hindu origins outside South Asia. He has consecrated his brilliant research in a book with a strange title. Neither the title of the book, nor the depth of his profound research is done justice by the trivial title “Urdu-Hindu an artificial divide”. The book through profound linguistic and historical research presents the topography of Sough Asia from the earliest time to the present day. Perhaps a better title for the book, or for a sequel to the book would be “Rig Veda-The giant Trek: Tracing the Origins of the Hindus in the Middle East”. Another possibility of a title would be “Ancient South Asia to present times: Linguistic analysis of Hindu immigration”. Dr. Khan spawned the interest in this topic–which we have been exploring for more than three decades. His comments will be added to our narrative as soon as we get the feedback.Dr. Khan is not alone in his research which describes South Asia as a land of immigrants. Dr. Ahmed Hasan Dani. Romila Thapar and others have done tremendous research about the foreign origins of Hindus in Bharat. Of course this goes contrary to the grain. The Hindu Mahasabah and extremists Hindus consider themselves as masters of the land and consider the others, Muslims, Christians and Parsis as invaders and foreigners.The Supreme Court of Bharat has now weighed in on the subject. In a seminal article published in Bharat’s best and least unbiased newspaper The Hindu the journalist says “Hindus themselves were not the original A Supreme Court judgment projects the historical thesis that India is largely a country of old immigrants and that pre-Dravidian aborigines, ancestors of the present Adivasis, rather than Dravidians, were the original inhabitants of India.”

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 22 Jan 2011 19:22

krisna wrote:Is the DIE stronger in India than other nations, if so why is it or IOW why it is less in other nations and what lessons can we learn. Democracy and freedom of speech should cut both ways rather than increasing DIE only.

Quite important questions. Let's explore the second part first. Freedom is not defined objectively. It is not uniformly applied. Freedom is understood, propagated and allowed based on preconceived premise. The precious thing "freedom" in true sense should be such that, its application should be near universal, requiring very special circumstances to curtail it. That special circumstance should be rare and not common practice.
In India, there are specially trained people (socially engineered) who have slanted that very definition based on who exercises that. The fake liberals have bent, twisted, mangled the application of 'freedom' that it resembles very little of what it is supposed to mean. Suppression and intimidation to freedom of speech is liberally applied in the interests of upholding harmony. So a filtered version acceptable to DIEs will be promoted and accepted.

Now, regarding other nations, most nations rig that definition to coincide without eroding majoritarian views. In India, it is exactly opposite, anything that curbs majoritarian view including that is neutral is promulgated as correct definition of freedom. This is an artificial condition.

If a neutral view that coincides with the minority, is proposed by majority it immediately is branded as unacceptable to principles of freedom. In J&K thread, a member has provided classic example of how a neutral activity of hoisting Indian flag, becomes unacceptable because it is proposed by majority, while the same thing would become acceptable if it were to be done by CPI/M! So who exercises freedom defines its validity for a neutral simple act. Imagine how it plays out in contentious cases. How often a nation makes exceptions and treats cases as special is a pointer to how well freedom is allowed.

Freedom to shout fire in crowded mandirs are allowed, but even talk of educating about fire escape drills in madrassas is disallowed. MFhussain is allowed free operation, while Taslima Nasreen is hounded out.

While in other nations, minorities had to fight and oppose the majorities to eek out a space, in India that was never the case. But lacking aptitude to think about such things, the DIEs have taken it to mean opposing majorities as virtue and expansion of freedom. Freedom has been redefined to abuse majoritarians, period. This is convenient arrangement for non-Indians and Indians who are inspired, enamoured by views derived away from the land. In such an environment freedom of speech, has had little effect to accurate portrayal of non-DIE views. Printing technology brought in a revolution. Technology enablement to disseminate non-DIE views, is quickly going to disabuse the DIEs and expose their shallowness. Freedom is seeping India by bits and pieces. DIE will rejoice till sunshines. The anomaly of why DIEs overarch is easy to see. Tail can never wag the dog.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Jan 2011 04:21

JwalaMukhi wrote:
In India, there are specially trained people (socially engineered) who have slanted that very definition based on who exercises that. The fake liberals have bent, twisted, mangled the application of 'freedom' that it resembles very little of what it is supposed to mean. Suppression and intimidation to freedom of speech is liberally applied in the interests of upholding harmony. So a filtered version acceptable to DIEs will be promoted and accepted.

The remedy is first fix the education system. This is now propagating the DIE version. Next is the media which is another toll of the same group. That is spreading the falsehood. Political system has been distorted to suit their version.

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 24 Jan 2011 04:26

Acharya,

Do not disagree but who will do it and how can it be done with the current state of the rashtra prevailing?