LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 11 Feb 2011 08:08

Cross posting.. Technical Fault Forces Light Combat Helicopter to Shorten Flight at Aero India 2011

wig · Post by **wig** » 11 Feb 2011 09:24

a new version of dhruv mark 3 is set for siachen as per this report in the tribune

A new bigger and more powerful chopper has been pressed into service specifically for the needs of the Army in Siachen. The chopper, an upgraded version of the existing Dhruv, will have a brand new engine enabling it to carry heavier loads to drop supplies at the glacier in the harsh winter months and ensure safer evacuation of those needing medical treatment.

The glacier (21,000 feet) in northern Jammu and Kashmir has been a flashpoint between India and Pakistan since 1984. The Army has a brigade-level (5,000 troops) deployment at the glacier. The daily supplies have to be dropped by choppers based at Leh. At present, the vintage Cheetah/ Cheetak choppers operate there and barely meet the requirements in case of emergency evacuation. The feet of the soldier, when evacuated in a lying down position, stick out as the chopper is not wide enough.

The first of the five new choppers, named Dhruv Mark III, were handed over by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to the Army Aviation Wing today.

P Soundara Rajan, Director Corporate planning, HAL, confirmed that the engine - Shakti - is powerful enough to take the chopper to Siachen and even higher. The HAL and French company Turbomeca have co-developed the engine and one of the key specifications was the ability to land and take off at a high altitude. The earlier version of the Dhruv did not have the ability and the Army was using the souped up version of Cheetah/Chetak for its Siachen operations.

The HAL will produce 159 of these choppers. Separately, Indian Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshall PV Naik, listed how the IAF’s chopper fleet is going to change and the present year will be important. The evaluation report of attack choppers is expected in a week. Russian-origin Mi- 28 and Boeing’s Apache are in the race.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110211/main6.htm

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 11 Feb 2011 18:44

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 11 Feb 2011 19:08

Bechara Grippen ka pilot - unaware of the Khatra leaping onto him.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Feb 2011 19:32

That a cool shot, you dont get such photus often

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 11 Feb 2011 19:53

Venkarl,
Amazing shot! In fact, it is my favourite of all LCH pictures that I have seen.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 11 Feb 2011 20:43

I simply copy pasted Gaur saab....credit goes to whoever took that shot

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 11 Feb 2011 20:53

ramana wrote:
A attack helicopter pilot saying he flies janamejya is hardly inspiring!

" Namo namah!"
Their is power in the name.

Probably they are planning to do a Sarpayaga in our borders. Remember Takshaka, who kept on holding to Indra's throne (

guess hu?) and the Ritviks saying "sahendra Takshakaya swaha = then let Takshaka fall in fire along with Indra"???

Drishyaman · Post by **Drishyaman** » 11 Feb 2011 20:55

Wonder how Gripen Fans react seeing that pic

palash_kol · Post by **palash_kol** » 11 Feb 2011 21:55

Hmmm...Thats a nice shot.....

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 12 Feb 2011 07:50

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 12 Feb 2011 08:32

^ Most fascinated picture. Seeing his happiness in "feeling" the LCH and age, i should think he could be a veteran from BIA or INA ?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 Feb 2011 09:01

I need the gurus' input on this.

Is the front landing gear on the LCH not exposed to enemy fire?
Not that it will affect the performance of the helicopter in the air, but if it gets damaged, can cause some difficulty on the ground.

Unless it is possible to quickly replace the entire assembly once on the ground.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Feb 2011 09:11

JuggiG, Thats the most touching picture of the show. See his pride in the dao.

Hari Nair · Post by **Hari Nair** » 12 Feb 2011 13:43

@ putnanja - The aircraft is undergoing a precautionary maintenance check, which is not unusual in the prototype & flight testing circle. Unfortunately, its in the airshow period & we missed out a couple of days of the airshow

@ rakall - the Mk-III ALH lifted a payload of 619 Kgs during its trials on the Glacier, in the conditions mentioned in my article. However, it will be certified for routine use by sqn pilots for payload of 200 kgs.

@ avik - Thanks for the appreciation ! The LCH flies well - as you all have undoubtedly observed

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Feb 2011 13:48

Hari Nair wrote:@ putnanja - The aircraft is undergoing a precautionary maintenance check, which is not unusual in the prototype & flight testing circle. Unfortunately, its in the airshow period & we missed out a couple of days of the airshow

Sad

I needed an LCH video

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Feb 2011 13:52

Nair Sir, please tell us HAL has recorded a nice video of the display !
pretty please ! the 30 seconds odd clip of the demo that I saw yesterday was breathtaking. we want more !

Hari Nair · Post by **Hari Nair** » 12 Feb 2011 13:56

@Rahul - I'm not sure as Wingco Unni & I were doing the displays - will check with the marketing blokes & let you know.

@Shiv - Check again your location ???!!

@ Indranil - a whole lot of questions there! Re - the LCH -the new wings & fairings are expected to be interfaced within a couple of months. The overall weight reduction is what Dr Sampat had specified in his presentation. The wings will be lifting surfaces. The related questions on induced drag, vortex shedding & effects on tailplane - well that's a couple of hours of discussion on aerodynamics!

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 12 Feb 2011 14:53

Hari Nair wrote:@ putnanja - The aircraft is undergoing a precautionary maintenance check, which is not unusual in the prototype & flight testing circle. Unfortunately, its in the airshow period & we missed out a couple of days of the airshow

@ rakall - the Mk-III ALH lifted a payload of 619 Kgs during its trials on the Glacier, in the conditions mentioned in my article. However, it will be certified for routine use by sqn pilots for payload of 200 kgs.

@ avik - Thanks for the appreciation ! The LCH flies well - as you all have undoubtedly observed

Hari Nair -- thanks a lot for the accurate answer.. that is exactly what I tried to summarize based on your article & prasad sampath's presentation..

Your post will save BR from a lot of discussion/arguments/flamewars on BR in the future regarding ALH's capability at 6Km..

viktor · Post by **viktor** » 12 Feb 2011 17:23

@Shivji, these are the videos you might like. Sadly they were shot on Thursday when LCH developed a snag and its flight was cut short.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5GfHqsCiO0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko9Ai6WrsqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Jgx10v-iM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlC2wZl9dV8

viktor · Post by **viktor** » 12 Feb 2011 17:25

@Juggiji, did you click this picture on 11th? I saw the senior while boarding on SAAB 2000. He was escorted by one of the IAF pilots and a lady who looked like his wife. Really touching picture indeed.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Feb 2011 17:47

viktor ji, why a 5 min clip of the saab ride and only 15 sec clips of LCH ?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 12 Feb 2011 22:46

Dang, no LCH flew on Friday so I did not get to see them. Though the Sarangs in the evening somewhat made up.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 12 Feb 2011 23:15

Hari Nair wrote: @ Indranil - a whole lot of questions there! Re - the LCH -the new wings & fairings are expected to be interfaced within a couple of months. The overall weight reduction is what Dr Sampat had specified in his presentation. The wings will be lifting surfaces. The related questions on induced drag, vortex shedding & effects on tailplane - well that's a couple of hours of discussion on aerodynamics!

Thank you sir for the replies.

Dr. Sampath while replying to a question said that the armament boom is just shaped like an aerofoil to reduce drag and not to generate lift. I could understand the argument both ways:
1. going for a lifting wing or
2. not going for it and keeping the drag at a minimum and aerodynamics at its simplest, especially since lift is not a big problem on the LCH.

So I wanted to tally the reasons for choosing no.2 (that was my wrong comprehension of Dr. Sampaths answer).

Thank you for clearing that it is going to case 1. Indeed, in that case the aerodynamics is going to be a couple of hours of
discussion.

viktor · Post by **viktor** » 13 Feb 2011 00:07

@Rahulji, I could record LCH video on 10th only. And sadly it didn't fly on 11th. BTW there are 3 short LCH videos. Problem was that I was recording/shooting with the same camera. By the time I was done shooting LCH pics, it suddenly landed. Only later did I come to know that it was a technical snag.

Saab ride video was shot in anticipation to give everybody a good glimpse of aircraft line up. But sadly it didn't come out too well.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 11:01

Sadly - this is all I got of the LCH, which landed soon after it took of for a display on the 10th of Feb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXiJxg26WKE

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 13 Feb 2011 11:09

viktor wrote:@Juggiji, did you click this picture on 11th? I saw the senior while boarding on SAAB 2000. He was escorted by one of the IAF pilots and a lady who looked like his wife. Really touching picture indeed.

@viktorji, The Photo is Courtesy " DPR Defence, Ministry of Defence (MoD) ".

@viktor, Nice LCH Videos

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 13 Feb 2011 11:13

How does the armament boom that is small and that too saddled with weapons ever generate lift?
Its not as if the helo is going to be going very fast all the time. And the main rotor will be pumping a HUGE amount of downwash right on top of that boom too.

Hari Nair · Post by **Hari Nair** » 13 Feb 2011 22:40

Marten wrote:Hari Sir, I was hoping to be able to meet you on Saturday. Will try again tomorrow. Hope you had a great AI. Please wish Unni Sir as well.

I came armed to take awesome videos of the LCH, but will wait for the next opportunity to do so. Will probably take a day off and camp around Bellandur lake or Kaggadasapura Doddenakundi lake to get a decent video. Just let us know a day in advance if you're headed our way. *grin.

Sorry to disappoint you with the no-show as the maintenance checks are still underway. Will definitely let you know a day or so in advance, when we plan our next display practice.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Feb 2011 23:13

Tarmak has a couple of nice pics of Hari Nair sir in the LCH cockpit getting ready for a flight.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Feb 2011 01:57

Gagan wrote:How does the armament boom that is small and that too saddled with weapons ever generate lift?
Its not as if the helo is going to be going very fast all the time. And the main rotor will be pumping a HUGE amount of downwash right on top of that boom too.

It is indeed quite complex and helicopter specific. None of the helicopters depend on it for lift. But they try to use whatever little they can get.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Feb 2011 02:08

the lift from the boom is mostly for supporting its own weight ?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 14 Feb 2011 04:38

nachiket wrote:Tarmak has a couple of nice pics of Hari Nair sir in the LCH cockpit getting ready for a flight.

Can someone post a link for this Abdul please

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 14 Feb 2011 04:41

From this layman's PVO - the LCH is a winner. To have such confidence in the machine for a nearly vertical AOA shows the confidence of the pilots in their machine and the tremendous job that the engineers have done. We need to build 250 LCHs immediately and station them in NE.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Feb 2011 04:51

deletec

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Feb 2011 05:32

viktor wrote:@Shivji, these are the videos you might like. Sadly they were shot on Thursday when LCH developed a snag and its flight was cut short.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5GfHqsCiO0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko9Ai6WrsqM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Jgx10v-iM

Thanks Viktor. If you join them up the whole video would amount to a "decent amount" of footage and if I tagged my footage to that it would be a proper video

I am just surprised none of the news channels seems to have understood the significance of the LCH - and they saw it on day 1. I think, in general, media people are mango man and are clueless. One aircraft is the same as the next one.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Feb 2011 05:59

Rahul M wrote:the lift from the boom is mostly for supporting its own weight ?

No, on the Mi-24 the wing could generate 22-28% of the total lift in forward motion. But they the Mi-24/35 wing was a high drag solution (+ve AoA). Also by depending so much on the wing cripples its maneuverability to a certain extent.

The armament boom on the LCH will produce much lower lift.

viktor · Post by **viktor** » 14 Feb 2011 07:34

@shivji, sorry for going OT, but can you please teach this dhoti-wearing mango person how to add those videos into a single clip?

viktor · Post by **viktor** » 14 Feb 2011 08:03

Guru log, finally figured out the way to merge clips and add titles to it. I am feeling "dhanya dhanya". There it goes.

"Composite clip of HAL Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) flying at Aero India 2011 (Yelhanka AFS, Bangalore/Bengaluru). Also visible is DRDO aerostat in background. Also visible in the video are Dornier Do-228, An-32, Su-30MKI and Gripen among other aircrafts.

LCH is based around HAL Dhruv (Advanced Light Helicopter - ALH) and is an indigenous effort."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suIR5ME4rL4

viktor · Post by **viktor** » 14 Feb 2011 09:49

paging Hari Nair ji, pls drop a line at IndIa DefeNce dat IN at geemail daat com.