AeroIndia 2011

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 17:17

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Chinese J - 20

http://www................com/chinese-j-20-stealth-fighter-makes-first-test-flight-31257/

What do you feel. What does India require to match Chinese J - 20

The topic has been discussed to death in another thread.

With respect may I point out that your question is both unfair and ignorant

1. Unfair: Wrong thread. Designed to catch eyeballs even as everyone is looking for Aero India news
2. Ignorant: When you ask this question can you reveal if you have any degree of knowledge about what the J-20 is and what threat it constitutes before throwing what IO consider an ignorant question on BRF

Pleas do your homework first. Or ask the question on the newbie thread.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 17:17

Army Aviation at Aero India 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o8P_2Qu7pE

Vivek Raghuvanshi · Post by **Vivek Raghuvanshi** » 13 Feb 2011 17:21

Shiv, so when we put NATIONAL SECURITY first means we are IGNORANT

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 13 Feb 2011 17:25

Vivek Sir, why do you waste your valuable and expensive intellect and time here on the AI thread talking about the future world dominating force multiplier? I am sure no one here would understand, comprehend or value your options to mitigate that risk.

But since you asked, I personally would prefer exhaling from the opposite end in the J-20's general direction for the time being.Because it is not my problem. I have people under my pay to worry about it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 17:26

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Shiv, so when we put NATIONAL SECURITY first means we are IGNORANT

That is a perfectly inane rhetorical question. This whole forum is about national security but separate threads deal with separate subjects. If you don't know that after all these months on BRF you are revealing ignorance of the highest order sir. So yes you are definitely displaying ignorance that even some teenager friends of mine, some of whom I met yesterday, do not reveal so cheerfully and aggressively. Congratulations. Nobody asked you not to ask a security question. Please ask in the newbie thread or look at the Chinese military thread and reveal if you have any insight whatsoever.

SriSri · Post by **SriSri** » 13 Feb 2011 17:33

shiv wrote:
Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Shiv, so when we put NATIONAL SECURITY first means we are IGNORANT
That is a perfectly inane rhetorical question. This whole forum is about national security but separate threads deal with separate subjects. If you don't know that after all these months on BRF you are revealing ignorance of the highest order sir. So yes you are definitely displaying ignorance that even some teenager friends of mine, some of whom I met yesterday, do not reveal so cheerfully and aggressively. Congratulations. Nobody asked you not to ask a security question. Please ask in the newbie thread or look at the Chinese military thread and reveal if you have any insight whatsoever.

Yep.

@Vivek,
1. This is the wrong thread for the J-20 discussion.
2. You quoted a dubious source i.e. a Pakistani website which pretends to be American.

/end-offtopic

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 13 Feb 2011 17:47

I wonder how many planes will be there for the next Aero India, if the MMRCA gets decided this / next year.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 18:14

Gagan wrote:I wonder how many planes will be there for the next Aero India, if the MMRCA gets decided this / next year.

Gagan - in Avia India 1993 (The first airshow - non government) and Aero India 1996 - only IF aircraft and IN aicraft were flown.

There will always be a few firangi displays - but I would love to see some vintage aircraft (Hunter, HF 24) flying and even the odd MiG 21 would be a treat. The Czech "Red Bull" display team was very good - but I did not get much footage. The C-130 has never yet shown its capability in Aero India.

I would also love to see a change in the static display. Aircrfat should be kept in separate "Islands" with fences around them so people can see them close up but not touch.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 13 Feb 2011 18:24

Some fotus from PIB

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=33700

http://pib.nic.in/release/phsmall.asp?phid=33699

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 13 Feb 2011 18:27

shiv wrote: ... The Czech "Red Bull" display team was very good - but I did not get much footage. ...

I have videoed almost entire "Red Bull" display will try to post it as soon as possible

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 18:30

Kakarat wrote:
shiv wrote: ... The Czech "Red Bull" display team was very good - but I did not get much footage. ...
I have videoed almost entire "Red Bull" display will try to post it as soon as possible

Looking forward to that - there was some spectacular stuff there.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 13 Feb 2011 19:39

HAL has given two Shakti powered Dhruv Mk-III to the IA at Aero India.

Dumb Question:
How do these choppers reach Thoise?
Do they fly all the way from B'lore with stops in between, or will they be hauled onto an IL-76 and then the main rotors reattached at Leh?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 13 Feb 2011 20:02

Vivek Raghuvanshi wrote:Chinese J - 20

http://www.xxxxxxxxx/chinese-j-20-steal ... ght-31257/

What do you feel. What does India require to match Chinese J - 20

I don't know. but I'll settle for banning you for this incessant barrage of asinine posting.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Feb 2011 20:53

I compared the Tejas video Shiv posted to bandar's zhuhai 2010 performance and have posted the link in paki arms sales thread.

my observations:
- tejas is doing all this faster than the bandar
- bandar did not complete a single proper vertical loop at all (!) - leveling off at top of loop with a 180' roll or going into a shallow dive from the top of circle, executing slow barrel rolls
- tejas barrel rolls looks faster to me
- since the tejas was flying faster to my eyes, no easy way to compare the horizontal turn rates (bandar was doing mostly that, showing off the vortices coming off its lerx's)

and as Shiv observed in golf course the Tejas can do more.

the pakis can bluster but they must be crapping in their shalwars after seeing what the IOCed mk1 can do (and that too while limited to 6G and not full AoA)...more is coming.

imo the FOC'ed Tejas will chew up the bandar and spit it out if it ever comes to a WVR guns wwf cagematch. they can run but they cant hide.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 13 Feb 2011 21:27

Rahul M wrote:indranil I saw no sign of tail slide in that one, a variation of the herbst if you ask me.

Ya was just trying to explain the roll at the top. But I must say the plane has good maneuverability at those low speeds. The control surfaces must be very well designed

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 13 Feb 2011 21:58

Dileep wrote:When SHQ made bad faces and complained heavily when I announced the plans to visit, I didn't know that the witch it piling on the jinxes!! Here are the random thoughts.

1. I believe I actually saw a tortoise pass our car stuck in traffic.
2. Parked at one place, Qd up to get into a bus, which crawled out into the highway, went past the AFS, took a U-turn, got deeper into the other side, and left us near some place near a big parking lot. It took almost an hour for that.
3. No one had any clue about the ticket. I had the online ticket and my companions had the real ones. Finally, we were directed to the rear of a kilometre long queue. THEN, thanx to the tenacity of my friend, a guard told us that the cash counter is free. So, I got in, shelled out an additional Rs1000 and got another ticket.
4. The guy at the counter tore off the map on the ticket, (which is so fine printed that I had to remove my specs and use the built in 5x magnifier to read) so, we had no clue what is where.
5. Every hall had a lot of crowds who just walk the aisles like zombies casting disinterested looks at the exhibits and exhibitors, so couldn't get into any.
6. Finally stumbled up to the viewing/display area. Could not really approach any displays, because several layers of people were standing, looking at things.
7. The couple of food counters (near Hall C) were so choked full, couldn't get anything to eat. Had to take the edge out with some ice creams. Later, someone setup a kiosk with biriyani packets, so didn't die of starvation. IF there was a food court, we DIDN'T see it.
8. Saw the afternoon show. By the end, the legs were all ready to break down.
9. After the show, dragged the companions back, because had to take the bus at 9:30, and my brother, who made the trip separately to the general public area, waned that the return might take 3 hours.
10. It took half an hour for the car to come from the parked place, go around the U-turn and come to the gate. That too because the driver is a smart one. Because of the same reason, the return journey took only less than 2 hours.
11. Finally, the bus was late by an hour. Had to stand cold and alone at a godforsaken place.

Note to self. Shiver your lungi when the SHQ make faces next time.

This is the first time I visit a def show, and my ignorance of identifying/recognizing things shown very well. While my companion was pointing out afsar after afsar, describing the patches/decorations and even talking to some, all I could register was some uniformed guys. Didn't make any sense into my dense head. I could recognize most of the planes that flew however. Felt very happy and proud about Tejas, thrilled about MKI, disgusted about F-16, which didn't do a limited performance Tejas did.

We visited only one hall, that too because we had a little bit of time before the airshow. Nothing interesting there, except some UAVs by Jagirdar.

Oh, and I forgot to take my camera!!

Aha, not a true jingo I see. True jingos eat a Maggi and some water for breakfast and then eat and drink nothing until the show ends, then are fine with just a litre of water and a brownie at the CCD shack at the large parking lot mentioned in point 2 above, after the show ends

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 22:01

merlin wrote:
Dileep wrote:When SHQ made bad faces and complained heavily when I announced the plans to visit, I didn't know that the witch it piling on the jinxes!! Here are the random thoughts.
Aha, not a true jingo I see. True jingos eat a Maggi and some water for breakfast and then eat and drink nothing until the show ends, then are fine with just a litre of water and a brownie at the CCD shack at the large parking lot mentioned in point 2 above, after the show ends

Both you guys didn't turn up at my place and only one has a genuine excuse...

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 13 Feb 2011 22:03

shiv wrote: Looking forward to that - there was some spectacular stuff there.

Yep, especially the single aircraft that loops around the other two continuously (difficult to explain but a treat to watch).

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 13 Feb 2011 22:04

merlin wrote:
shiv wrote: Looking forward to that - there was some spectacular stuff there.
Yep, especially the single aircraft that loops around the other two continuously (difficult to explain but a treat to watch).

yes that was one signature stuff from red bull team

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Feb 2011 22:08

merlin wrote:
shiv wrote: Looking forward to that - there was some spectacular stuff there.
Yep, especially the single aircraft that loops around the other two continuously (difficult to explain but a treat to watch).

My son got a pixellated video of that using a still camera and digital zoom. Will put that up in due course with no acknowledgement.

The best part is that the two aircraft around which the third one spirals around were flying in a mirror image formation with one upright and the one above it upside down.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 13 Feb 2011 22:22

Gagan wrote:I wonder how many planes will be there for the next Aero India, if the MMRCA gets decided this / next year.

I would say we *might*l see a Pak-fa, khan AEW, MALE/HALE, UCAV, F35, BMD systems and F22

Basically equivalents of anything that is nearing completion as part of an Indian program

Even if khan looses, he aint the type to mope around forever.

Aiel · Post by **Aiel** » 13 Feb 2011 23:53

A pushback Indian style seen at Aero India 2011

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Feb 2011 05:24

Aiel wrote:A pushback Indian style seen at Aero India 2011

Can anyone explain the bulge below the fuselage?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 14 Feb 2011 06:16

Well, I would have been fine with just water. In fact I told my companions to just be done with the ice cream. The real point there was "IF there was a food court, we COULDN'T find it"

Well, Dr. Shiv, I couldn't have made it even if it was a visit to the abode of the other Dr. Shiv.

skyflies · Post by **skyflies** » 14 Feb 2011 06:20

shiv wrote:
Aiel wrote:A pushback Indian style seen at Aero India 2011

Can anyone explain the bulge below the fuselage?

It is a cargo pod.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Feb 2011 06:27

shiv wrote:
Aiel wrote:A pushback Indian style seen at Aero India 2011

Can anyone explain the bulge below the fuselage?

This plane in Cessna Grand caravan. I have fond memories of sky diving from this plane

.

That bulge is just an optional cargo pod.

oops, skyflies beat me to that.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Feb 2011 06:30

Any one ask the LCA test pilots about the Chitradurg trials?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 14 Feb 2011 10:32

The Suryakirans last show.

I was determined not to take any more footage of the Suryakirans of which I have a lot. But they were once again simply too immaculate and too beautiful to be ignored. I have some of the best moments in a short video (less than 3 minutes). Watchable in full screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L739wmnKtkY

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 14 Feb 2011 10:52

shiv wrote:I was determined not to take any more footage of the Suryakirans of which I have a lot.

Please don't make any such determinations in the future sirjee. And thank you for that amazing flight video. Can't wait to see it done in an IJT.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 14 Feb 2011 11:08

^^
transitioning to the Hawks...chances of transitioning again to the IJT looks remote. With Sarang been formed, another IAF aerobatics team being raised may also not be contemplated

srai · Post by **srai** » 14 Feb 2011 11:34

Hiten wrote:^^
transitioning to the Hawks...chances of transitioning again to the IJT looks remote. With Sarang been formed, another IAF aerobatics team being raised may also not be contemplated

Are there enough Hawks on order for them to be part of the new Surya Kiran team? IAF only has 106 Hawk AJTs on order and all of these will be required for pilot training.

Per reports few years back, the first 12 IJT on order were supposed to go to the Surya Kiran team. From recent reports, HJT-36 IJT is supposed to reach its FOC by end of 2011. More than 200 IJTs are planned for induction by the IAF.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Feb 2011 11:42

IJT should also be cheaper to produce in the extra nos needed for aerobatic team.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 14 Feb 2011 12:17

the online version may have the article with a different title - couldn't locate it

Article as it appeared in TOINS

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9902 ... awkajt.jpg

using IJT from the onset of its induction into IAF, IMO may not've been a very prudent decision on their part

probably felt that the unfamiliar nature of the IJT, new that it is, pushing the envelope of the aircraft, as is done in aerobatic maneuvers, would be risky, considering that the envelope itself would somewhat be ambiguous at the moment.

Also considering that the IJT is yet to be certified with the IOC & then the FOC, & uncertain nature of their time-frames, keeping the team out of action for any more than absolutely necessary was not found to be appealing.

Any way more Hawks available than IJTs at the moment, & more AJTs, possibly Hawks again on their way AJT numbers could be filled comfortably with birds to spare for the Surya Kirans.

Would love to see them fly Indian birds myself, though - hope they decide to transition again - Surya Kirans adopted the HJT-16 only in early '90s - long after the aircraft themselves were inducted.

hoping to see them fly in IJT mK2 OR indigenous AJT - whichever comes first

my conjecture

pyogi · Post by **pyogi** » 14 Feb 2011 12:38

Here are some photos I had the privilege to take

Enjoy!

Suryakiran Pilots_DSC0691 by photoyogi, on Flickr

SU30 & Suryakiran pilots _DSC0678 by photoyogi, on Flickr

Suryakiran Team full_DSC0675 by photoyogi, on Flickr

Middle group_DSC0680 by photoyogi, on Flickr

_DSC0685 by photoyogi, on Flickr

--

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 14 Feb 2011 13:19

Just got back home today morning - after changing aircraft like one changes trains - Boeing 737 to Airbus A330-200, to Boeing 747-400..phew

Nice work, Praveen, Rahul, Vishal, and others.

Did some work in-flight - here are some of the offerings for a sneak preview..........for now.

Starting with the Tejas: Since the ADA/HAL folks fitted it with Smokewinders - went for some wide-angle shots that had some different smoke creations/angles in it, and couple of tight ones.

Tejas rockets skywards with the Smokewinders dispensing.

Tight shot of the Tejas.

Interesting shot of the Tejas diving - with the smoke wakes left behind. The smoke pattern leads one to think that the Tejas has ripped through the gap in the smoke.

Tejas setting up for the inverted pass.

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 14 Feb 2011 13:24

Super-Bug goes vertical with the a weps loadout in this next one -

pyogi · Post by **pyogi** » 14 Feb 2011 13:33

kedar.karmarkar wrote:
http://flic.kr/p/9i8bLN - Tejas rockets skywards with the Smokewinders dispensing.

http://flic.kr/p/9i575K - Tight shot of the Tejas.

http://flic.kr/p/9i8bMQ - Interesting shot of the Tejas diving - with the smoke wakes left behind. The smoke pattern leads one to think that the Tejas has ripped through the gap in the smoke.

http://flic.kr/p/9i8bP5 - Tejas setting up for the inverted pass.

Awesome Shots Kedar

Loved the second link, tight shot of the Tejas fantastic perspective.
on how i embedded the photos, there is a "share this" link copy paste the BB code

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 14 Feb 2011 13:39

Thanx Praveen - will try that on the next post.

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 14 Feb 2011 13:47

Some of the confusion confounded ones of the Sarang crosses and bursts, below -

Sarangs ending their performance

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 14 Feb 2011 13:53

Some of the Flying Bulls -