PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Feb 2011 20:04

^^ awesome info on the MKI.

1. Increase the role capability and mission computing performance and hardware first.
2. change the existing phased array to an active one.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 16 Feb 2011 00:03

ive been following http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php ... &sk=t&sd=a forum from the past 4 months and some interesting stuff has come out from there and recently there were videos of PAK-FAs flat nozzles like these

and now there are a couple of drawings from paralay ... we should watch this site closely

AL-31

AL-41/117S

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 16 Feb 2011 01:15

^^
Thanks for the vids and diagram.
Regarding the videos, I have also seen them. IMHO, they are just speculative fan videos. Just look at the creator's profile. He hails from Philippines and gives secretprojects.co.uk as his site. So, its not as if he is a NPO-Saturn employee.

chiru · Post by **chiru** » 16 Feb 2011 02:00

gaur sahib though its speculative, i want this to be true

coz the news from Russia has fizzled out and this thread is pretty stagnant these days, im starving for some credible info !!!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 16 Feb 2011 02:08

chiru wrote:gaur sahib though its speculative, i want this to be true coz the news from Russia has fizzled out and this thread is pretty stagnant these days, im starving for some credible info !!!

Well, your wish may very well be granted. It was confirmed by NPO-Saturn that they are working on flat exhausts for AL-41. I think that the link was provided by Austin in this very thread.
Also, please do away with sahib.

On another note, here is a very nice picture of PAK-FA.

I know that this is PSed but it I found it very beautiful.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 16 Feb 2011 07:30

chackojoseph wrote:Tejas Sir,

It is perspective. It is yet to be prospective.

Perspective(from Latin perspicere, to see through) in the graphic arts, such as drawing, is an approximate representation, on a flat surface (such as paper), of an image as it is seen by the eye. The two most characteristic features of perspective are that objects are drawn:
They are still on the perspective stage.

I had considered prospective too.

So it is a paper plane!

I never seen such forthcoming admission in the title itself.

kit · Post by **kit** » 16 Feb 2011 09:09

Let us build an F22 .. calling all jingoes check this out

http://www.rcpowers.com/

also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Eh3pMC ... ature=fvwp

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Feb 2011 13:02

Airfleet Magazine

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Feb 2011 14:18

Austin wrote:Airfleet Magazine

Thanks for posting. This issue is a collectors item for its analysis of the J-20. I was in fact going to do my own analysis - based on what I have read - and I will add this to my information sources.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Feb 2011 17:47

to carry minimum 2-3 ASMs internally the bay would need to pretty big...a shallow bay like other 5th gens wont do.
perhaps that drives the fat boxy fuselage design than the graceful taper of other types.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Feb 2011 18:19

So, what is the plan for the tubular rear and bottom? heavy RAM coating? or a reshaped body?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 17 Feb 2011 03:13

The recent report on that US Admiral who did not shiver, also talks about the threat from land based stealthy aircraft.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 17 Feb 2011 03:33

SaiK wrote:So, what is the plan for the tubular rear and bottom? heavy RAM coating? or a reshaped body?

No one reallyknows for sure. Unfortunately the second flying prototype (T-50-4?) is also said to look exactly like the first flying prototype. The only difference being that this one carries more avionics that were being tested on ground prototype till now. The third prototype is supposed to have some differences but that will only take the air next year.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Feb 2011 12:57

shiv wrote:Thanks for posting. This issue is a collectors item for its analysis of the J-20. I was in fact going to do my own analysis - based on what I have read - and I will add this to my information sources.

Shiv at AI they were giving complimentary copy of this issue , Great videos of AI display from you ...How did you manage to get inside the so called prohibited area for business visitors ?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 17 Feb 2011 22:14

Austin wrote:Airfleet Magazine

Thank you for this. Good thought about the possible usage.

Some of the places where I disagree with the author is that it is 25 metres long etc. I think the plane is 20 mtrs long and with MTO between 30 -35T

I understand what they are saying with the area ruling. They contend that the plane will have almost a trough starting from the inlet and not changing at all. Canards help a lot and that the J-20 has lifting canards will also make it smoother. But every where that I have read, the trough should settle down smoothly as well. Otherwise the wave drag will obviously be high. It is like the difference when a SUV vs a sedan passing by. The authors don't discuss it at all.

The guys have have come to the same conclusion that I had that this plane is optimized for 1.4 to 1.7 M. However, they feel that this plane is going to do over 2M with Afterburner thrust. How will they achieve it though DSI intakes has not been discussed.

I had not thought of the canards and the Mach cone. It was interesting to read about it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Feb 2011 06:42

Austin wrote:
shiv wrote:Thanks for posting. This issue is a collectors item for its analysis of the J-20. I was in fact going to do my own analysis - based on what I have read - and I will add this to my information sources.
Shiv at AI they were giving complimentary copy of this issue , Great videos of AI display from you ...How did you manage to get inside the so called prohibited area for business visitors ?

Austin - thanks. I went on 2 days - business pass on one day and Abdul pass on the next. I picked up a whole lot of mags at AI and am still reading them. My joy has been complicated (but increased) by the arrival of a great issue of Vayu. I am not sure if I have picked up a copy of the one you mention - anyway the pdf is better for me.

Regarding videos - I liked the new ones posted by VinothTN - he has a better camera. So its a new camera for me for the next AI

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Feb 2011 08:32

Is it really worth to go for flat nozzle as shown in video? Where is the 360* TVC?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Feb 2011 09:09

SaiK wrote:Is it really worth to go for flat nozzle as shown in video? Where is the 360* TVC?

Flat nozzle is used primarily to control all aspect stealth of the fighter from its rear end and bottom of fuselage when viewed from GBR , The Russian claim they have developed or patented a 2.5D TVC with a flat nozzle ( not a 3 D ) ,in worst case we may see a 2D nozzle like F-22.

The bigger challenge will be to prevent thrust loss with Flat Nozzle , the older experiments revel a thrust loss of 8 to 10 % iirc ,now they claim their goal is to reduce to 2-3 %.

Shiv you mean the fat Vayu copy they were selling out there , yes it has interesting article . I really wanted to meet you and other BR guys at AI , unfortunately i did not bump into any one .... In desperation I started asking few folks with camera if they were from BR , none was +ve ...any ways could just meet Kapil

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 18 Feb 2011 12:07

Just thinking out loud.. Is it possible to make this 2D TVC nozzle rotate about engine axis (3 degrees - up, down, +/- 90 deg clockwise/anticlockwise) for both engines?

That ways we would still possess the shape advantage with 3D vectoring.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 18 Feb 2011 17:37

^kailash, I was just thinking about the same.++.

I'd would rather go for IR jammer and get that extra 10% thrust. Losing thrust is no no for my thoughts. However, if they invent some other chemistry to reduce IR signature, then it is entirely different matter.

They can think about retractable pods that eject out activated on MAWS, that does jamming and protection work. why thrust loss?

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 23 Feb 2011 22:45

the second prototype appears to have flown

The second fighter T-50 fifth generation made its maiden flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... EGjiq7isdQ

Komsomolsk-on-Amur hosted the first flight of the second instance of the fifth generation fighter T-50 (prospective Complex Frontal Aviation - PAK FA) said on Wednesday, a source in the military-industrial complex.
«Полет прошел успешно. "The flight was successful. Пилотировал истребитель заслуженный летчик-испытатель России Сергей Богдан. Piloted fighter honored test pilot Sergei Bogdan Russia. Все задачи, намеченные на первый полет, были успешно решены», - сказал источник «Интерфаксу». All tasks scheduled for the first flight have been successfully resolved "- said the source told Interfax. "

По его данным, все системы самолета работали в штатном режиме. According to him, all aircraft systems were working normally.
«Устойчивость и управляемость самолета в воздухе получили хорошую оценку. "Stability and controllability of the aircraft in the air got a good grade. Все системы и двигатель самолета работали безотказно», - подчеркнул источник. All systems and aircraft engine worked flawlessly, "- said the source.

Первый полет истребителя Т-50 пятого поколения состоялся 29 января 2010 года. First flight of fighter T-50 fifth generation took place on Jan. 29, 2010. Т-50 – истребитель пятого поколения тяжелого класса со взлетным весом свыше 30 тонн, средней размерности (примерно соответствующей самолетам Су-27), представляющий собой моноплан с широко разнесенными двигателями и двумя килями, сильно отклоненными наружу от продольной оси. T-50 - fifth-generation fighter heavy class with takeoff weight of more than 30 tons, medium-scale (roughly corresponding to the Su-27), a monoplane with widely spaced engines and two keels, strongly deflected outward from the longitudinal axis. Внешний вид планера спроектирован с использованием технологий геометрической малозаметности «стелс». Appearance of the airframe was designed using stealth technology geometrical "stealth".
Самолет пятого поколения оснащен принципиально новым комплексом авионики и обладает большим внутренним отсеком вооружения. Fifth-generation aircraft is equipped with a fundamentally new avionics and has a large internal weapons bays.
Т-50 может взлетать и садиться, используя участки взлетно-посадочной полосы длиной 300–400 м. Самолет будет развивать скорость до 2,1 тыс. км в час и совершать перелеты на расстояние до 5,5 тыс. км. T-50 can take off and land, using sections of the runway length of 300-400 m. The plane will reach speeds of up to 2,1 thousand km per hour and to make flights over a distance up to 5,5 thousand km. Истребитель также оснащен комплексом дозаправки в воздухе. Fighter is also equipped with a set of in-flight refueling

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 23 Feb 2011 22:52

^^
According to Russian members of other forums it was a false alarm.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 23 Feb 2011 23:03

^^
very Chinese Space mission-like then

two days before actual test flight, script ready with description of flight characteristic

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Feb 2011 23:38

pics and videos only confirm here.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Feb 2011 20:11

This pic so impressive that I can't avoid it putting it here again and again..
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fI1By0fFB5s/S ... _pic_5.jpg

Now the split inlet could be distributed on top and as well as below thus covering for AoA and cruise (a slim y shaped dual inlets on the horizontal axis).

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Mar 2011 16:12

Second PAK-FA prototype flew today for an hour , pictures

http://pilot.strizhi.info/2011/03/03/9372

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2011 16:29

but, http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2011/2/24/171/ ?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Mar 2011 17:05

SaiK,

Your article is much older (Feb 24, 2011), while the one posted by Austin is Mar 4, 2011.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2011 17:26

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 03 Mar 2011 23:18

The second prototype of fifth-generation fighter T-50 successfully completes flight tests

Russian Aviaton » Thursday March 3, 2011 16:00 MSK

Today the second prototype of the fifth-generation Russian fighter T-50 (PAK FA - Prospective Airborne Complex - Frontline Aviation) has performed its first flight in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. According to the company's press service, the jet was piloted by honoured test pilot of Russia Sergey Bogdan.

The duration of flight was 44 minutes; the jet has landed on the factory airfield's runway. The flight has been successfully completed in accordance with flight assignment. Aircraft's systems operation and power plant stability have been evaluated during flight. The jet has shown a good performance on every phase of flight assignment.

The testing of PAK FA is carried out according to an approved program. At present all the preliminary ground and flight work is being completed. Three development prototypes were used for these tests, including bench-top strength tests, fuel system development, etc. PAK FA performed its first flight on January 29th 2010 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

The acceptance tests of flight model have been completed at the end of March. The fighter's first flight model and ground systems stand used for development of equipment and systems during flight testing have been delivered to Sukhoi's flight test base in Zhukovskiy on April 8th. After the completion of necessary preliminary bench testing including strength tests and ground development of the fight model, the preliminary flight testing was started on April 29th. The first prototype performed 36 flights according to flight testing program.

As compared with the previous-generation fighters, PAK FA has some unique features combining functions of fighter and strike-fighter. The fifth-generation jet is equipped with new avionics with integrated function of "electronic pilot" and next-generation radar with phased antenna array. This equipment reduces the pilot's workload and helps him concentrate on tactical objectives.

Aircraft furnishings of the new jet allow real-time data exchange with ground control systems and other aircraft. The use of composites and innovative technologies, jet's airframe configuration and measures on reducing the engine's visibility provide very low level of radar, optical and infrared visibility. Thus the combat effectiveness of the jet is increased when working on air or ground target, in any light and weather conditions.

http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2011/3/3/188/

BENNY · Post by **BENNY** » 04 Mar 2011 00:58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzTAjkHXq4I

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2011 09:23

High Res 1st Flight second prototype

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/img/gallery/w ... 3_02sm.jpg
http://www.sukhoi.org/img/gallery/wallp ... 3_03sm.jpg
http://www.sukhoi.org/img/gallery/wallp ... 3_01sm.jpg

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Mar 2011 09:41

nice pics. any frontal shot?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2011 09:44

(via kunal/mp.net)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Mar 2011 09:47

So, basically modify what ever you want keeping the core design the same? interesting times ahead.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 04 Mar 2011 12:45

What's that small spherical glassy thing behind the cockpit? sensor? light? I suppose its new.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 04 Mar 2011 12:54

Austinji,
Please do not hotlink images from imageshack. All we can see is a yellow frog in a icecube. Imageshack seems to be blocking hotlinking to sites that are unregistered with them (or something along those lines).

Abhik,
That spherical glassy thing was there before too. The difference was that it was opaque and painted at that time.

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 04 Mar 2011 12:57

nice pics ,,but if clearly observed in the second and third pic dark spots can be seen in air ,,could they be UFOs observing this flight

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/img/gallery/w ... 3_02sm.jpg
http://www.sukhoi.org/img/gallery/wallp ... 3_03sm.jpg
http://www.sukhoi.org/img/gallery/wallp ... 3_01sm.jpg

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 04 Mar 2011 13:02

Dust on the camera sensor sirjee

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2011 13:04

Gaur , point taken

saptarishi wrote: nice pics ,,but if clearly observed in the second and third pic dark spots can be seen in air ,,could they be UFOs observing this flight

They need to ask the Brits to open a file on that