West Asia News and Discussions

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Mar 2011 16:26

btw US supplied france some confidential nuclear test data and 'laser simulation' to permit testless testing later when france was setting off its last serious of n-tests in early 1990s. that shows their tightness.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Mar 2011 16:32

oh yes, and rafale et al., are as nato compatible as any other piece of kit

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Mar 2011 16:52

An interesting take on Dubai...

There is no class so pitiably wretched as that which possesses money and nothing else

And I do hope they have less of that too soon...terrorist f..kers

Read More at http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... z1GlLP7FR4

I’m told about the Pakistani shop assistant who, picking up an Arab woman’s shopping bags, accidentally passed gas, got arrested, and was jailed.

jailed for releasing inner pakistaniyat...

To think that our bollywood scum goes to visit this scum often and visit their mafia clients and financiers...and for shopping...the only ones to pity are the poor workers who go there because they have not much choice....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Mar 2011 18:21

out of the sands she came and into the sands she will go eventually...no oil unlike abu dhabi.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Mar 2011 18:25

bbc excerpt:

Our correspondent says the situation in Benghazi is getting more tense by the hour and the calls for a no-fly zone more desperate.

Jalal al-Gallal of the National Libyan Transitional Council said that there would be a "massacre" if the international community did not intervene.

"He [Gaddafi] will kill civilians, he will kill dreams, he will destroy us," he told the BBC.

Col Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam told Euronews TV that: "Everything will be over in 48 hours" even if a no-fly zone is imposed.

But our correspondent says that government announcements that an attack on Benghazi is about to begin appear to be propaganda designed to unnerve the opposition.

Even if Ajdabiya falls, the government does not seem to have enough troops in the field to attack the city of one million people, he says.

However, medical aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) on Wednesday announced that it was pulling its staff out of Benghazi due to the heavy fighting.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Mar 2011 18:51

FT is running an oped saying that now only a no-drive zone will hold gaddafi back

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Mar 2011 18:57

yes thats true, unless america starts a bombing campaign with its B1 and B52 fleet.

no fly zone has little meaning now. in bare exposed terrain the rag tag car borne militias are being torn apart by probably just a few units of tanks and well drilled 105mm towed guns. these can safely outrange any mortars or HMG the rebels have. the tanks can score pin point hits at 2km from stationary position and 105mm can sit 15km away and pound the crap out of any strongpoint.

dont think anything will happen - its over for the rebels.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Mar 2011 19:08

Basically Algiers and US both agree that whats going on in Libya can destabilise the whole of North Africa. This is because Gaddafi's mercenaries were recruited from teh Touareg tribe close to teh AQIM areas. So, question for US is what will happen once these mercenaries return back home with their weapons? Will these weapons find their way to AQIM? Will these mercenaries join AQIM? Thats the big question. So state department have setup a working group with Algeria.

Then EU is split. Italy, Portugal, Malta on one side. Gaddafi advisors have met with these over the last few weeks. Its Simple, Libya is worth billions to these nations. They can't afford to drop Gaddafi. EU ekhanomy is finished if they do.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 16 Mar 2011 19:18

Five killed in Bahrain violence

At least five people - two demonstrators and three policemen - have been killed.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Mar 2011 19:55

The casualty among troops is high..perhaps the persians are already compensating for the weakness caused by Saudi incursions...

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Mar 2011 20:15

I received an independent report into what happened in the first lulu roundabout raid. Police figures were exaggerated quite a bit. Will talk a bit more about it if people are interested.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Mar 2011 20:18

Radio France internationale on XM sat radio reports that PRC is the stumbling block for the NFZ at UN. They had a half hour segment on that today morning. Looks like France is very exercised about Libya.

Karl Rove on Fox News was chiding the Admin for not doing anything to back up the pious wish to see Gadda fi go!

Italy has stopped a Moroccon ferry with 2000 African refugees fleeing Libya off Sicily.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Mar 2011 20:20

shyamd wrote:I received an independent report into what happened in the first lulu roundabout raid. Police figures were exaggerated quite a bit. Will talk a bit more about it if people are interested.

Which means Iran is keeping hands off?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Mar 2011 20:28

Suppiah, do explain why you are so sad about Iran keeping hands off?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Mar 2011 20:36

^^^ I would have thought my posts so far would make that obvious...any trouble for these ME bunch can only be to India's benefit as it keeps them away from cross-ummah solidarity, funding and encouragement of TSP and its terror, directly, indirectly or otherwise. Some workers etc, suffer no doubt but I am looking at overall interests..

Their contemptous illtreatment of Indians, lack of human rights for their own let alone immigrants, my own brief impressions on personal visits (more delightfully summarised by the Vanity Fair article I posted) all make me feel these people deserve to go back to what they were - bedouins killing each other and leaving humanity alone...

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Mar 2011 20:40

4 Pakis killed in Bahrain, presumably hatred created by their own mercenary anti-Shia track record in Bahrain

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/16/pakistan ... ttack.html

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Mar 2011 20:47

Thanks for your post. So, lets say they do descend into war, and of course US will pull out of Af-Pak. As you know these incidents have forced the US to announce the timetable for withdrawal in Afg to July just yesterday. Once they pull out, where do you think all the abduls are going to head to? They are probably going to head straight for Kashmir. As you know LeT had faced a severe morale issue and they were deserting and heading to tribal areas to fight against ISAF. Today you have MI6 chief visiting and talking to Kayani about Middle East because the Paki's are over stretched there. The fact that the US is in Afg, is actually helping India's case even more as LeT etc are now directly in conflict with them.

Iran will not interfere as it knows its going to get pummelled in war. Its happy with status quo, they want to lebanonize bahrain.

This is actually a good area to explore and discuss. To discuss scenarios.

As for Indians in ME - you can't apply whats happening in Dubai to every single emirate/state in the Gulf. Its too simplistic and narrow.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 16 Mar 2011 20:53

^^^ Birather, it is not just Dubai, the article (and the impressions which I agree with 400%) IMHO applies to many parts of ME..mind you Dubai was supposedly the most liberal of the bunch. I have myself seen in Bahrain how a rich Arab lady treated a S.Asian (not sure if Indian/Bangla/Paki) airport baggage handler like something that crawled out of the toilet when he was a bit rough with one bag...and when they used to insist on staff wear ties and coat to office I used to laugh my ass off...

I think the Abduls will have their hands full purifying each other to bother about Kashmir. Let us not mix up Afghan and US troops etc., in this.

Oh BTW let me also add a clarification - this has nothing to with Islam. I have heard horror stories and have seen IM drivers and staff equally contemptuous of their hosts for their behaviour and ways..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Mar 2011 21:11

^^^ +1 there is a high degree of racist AND religious bigotry in the desert lands

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Mar 2011 22:29

ShyamD, do discuss the earlier post about the roundabout raid.

Suppiah, Its not time for Iran to show its hand. Time to let the forces show themselves. I think there is a slow re-alignment going on. We have PRC in UN SC vetoing use of International force and thus trying to support some forces.

All this is for US withdrawl.

PRC-TSP-Turkey nexus
vs
Isreal-India-Iran-Russia nexus

is forming.

Lets see what the Arabs want.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 16 Mar 2011 22:57

U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet abandons base in Bahrain

The sources said the administration of President Barack Obama appeared to be preparing for the collapse of the Sunni kingdom in Bahrain. They said Washington does not intend to protect the regime of King Hamad Bin Issa Al Khalifa.

"The Americans have written off Bahrain and are believed to be working out some arrangement with the Iranians that will protect the Americans from the mobs," the source said.

As late as 2010, the Fifth Fleet contained about 3,000 personnel in Bahrain. The fleet had conducted exercises to respond to a mass-casualty insurgency strike by Al Qaida or Iran, but the sources said did not envision the current Shi'ite unrest.

On March 12, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited Bahrain to review the security situation and the American naval presence in the Gulf Cooperation Council state. The sources said Gates warned Bahraini leaders not to use U.S. weapons to quell the Shi'ite protests.

Psy ops?

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 16 Mar 2011 22:59

I have myself seen in Bahrain how a rich Arab lady treated a S.Asian (not sure if Indian/Bangla/Paki) airport baggage handler

Indians go there because incomes there are higher than in India. The best remedy is to develop India fast enough that Indians do not need to go there and be insulted/maltreated. If you have followed the Gulf long enough you will realize that when oil first quadruped in price in the 1970s, one nationality that used to also go there to work were South Koreans. Today, no South Korean needs to go to the Gulf, their own country is rich enough. In fact they now bag major projects such as the nuclear power project in the UAE and deal with the Arabs from a position of economic strength. Isn't this a better option to emulate rather than rail and rant in frustration against the Arabs and their mistreatment of Indians?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 16 Mar 2011 23:01

Do we sit on our hands until we get to that state and forget the treatment meted out to our compatriots until then? I don't see why they should be mutually exclusive.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Mar 2011 23:02

Dilbu wrote:U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet abandons base in Bahrain
The sources said the administration of President Barack Obama appeared to be preparing for the collapse of the Sunni kingdom in Bahrain. They said Washington does not intend to protect the regime of King Hamad Bin Issa Al Khalifa.

"The Americans have written off Bahrain and are believed to be working out some arrangement with the Iranians that will protect the Americans from the mobs," the source said.

As late as 2010, the Fifth Fleet contained about 3,000 personnel in Bahrain. The fleet had conducted exercises to respond to a mass-casualty insurgency strike by Al Qaida or Iran, but the sources said did not envision the current Shi'ite unrest.

On March 12, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited Bahrain to review the security situation and the American naval presence in the Gulf Cooperation Council state. The sources said Gates warned Bahraini leaders not to use U.S. weapons to quell the Shi'ite protests.
Psy ops?

unkil will not walk away so easily from its main naval base in the region...

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 16 Mar 2011 23:04

Prasad wrote:Do we sit on our hands until we get to that state and forget the treatment meted out to our compatriots until then? I don't see why they should be mutually exclusive.

What can you do? Get the Indian Foreign Ministry to lodge a protest? You will have to lodge thousands of protests a day to handle all the mistreatment that happens to thousands of Indians on a daily basis across the entire region for all the domestic help, menial help, unskilled labourers etc.? How effective will that be after the 15th consecutive day that India lodges yet another protest? After that the Arabs will tell GOI, that if you are unhappy, please ban your citizens from working in the Gulf?

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Mar 2011 00:32

Yawn, Suppiah et al. Very short of time to explain. All I'll say is this, the view you have taken is quite narrow minded and quite stereotypical.
It varies regionally and with the class of society you deal with. I'll explain another time.

------------
Back to business. Folks, shit is about to hit the fan. Sadr and co in Iraq have had meetings and thoughts.
They are thinking about opening a front on the KSA border in solidarity with Bahraini shia.
Iran is showing its hand!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Mar 2011 02:53

Indians are mistreated and maltreated throughout the ME. Perhaps. As usually happens the more involved they are in the more low-paying jobs - they will be treated more as dirt. But you should never forget that menial jobs are seen as dirty and low - and such workers untouchable or coming out of gutter - is something only done in India and by big bad Hindus. The ME is a pureland of Islamic biratheri - where all men are equal. Since the edited and purged texts of Islam (lets say edited version for the kufr) say so, no one here should see any such mistreatment at ME or Araba hands. Even if those things happen from time to time - remember that outside of India and except of Hindus - such things always have an economic cause, maybe lack of economic development and lack of educational opportunities? If the Arabs had more economci development and better educational prospects the true biratheri and syncretic nature of Islam must have come out? No?

We should not have a black and white view of things. We must look into microsections of ME society or Arab society which differs substantially from city to to city, districts or parts of the same city, from one social section to another - even if it is impossible to carry out reliable sociological surveys that will bring out such tremendous diversity in Arab society where it concerns this dicsussion - that is attitude towards Indians as a nationality/ethnicity or identity. We must believe - even in the absence of representative surveys or studies that can reach into these myriad fine subdivisions of attitudes - that it exists.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 17 Mar 2011 02:56

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Mar 2011 03:10

brihaspati wrote:Indians are mistreated and maltreated throughout the ME. Perhaps. As usually happens the more involved they are in the more low-paying jobs - they will be treated more as dirt. But you should never forget that menial jobs are seen as dirty and low - and such workers untouchable or coming out of gutter - is something only done in India and by big bad Hindus. The ME is a pureland of Islamic biratheri - where all men are equal. Since the edited and purged texts of Islam (lets say edited version for the kufr) say so, no one here should see any such mistreatment at ME or Araba hands. Even if those things happen from time to time - remember that outside of India and except of Hindus - such things always have an economic cause, maybe lack of economic development and lack of educational opportunities? If the Arabs had more economci development and better educational prospects the true biratheri and syncretic nature of Islam must have come out? No?

We should not have a black and white view of things. We must look into microsections of ME society or Arab society which differs substantially from city to to city, districts or parts of the same city, from one social section to another - even if it is impossible to carry out reliable sociological surveys that will bring out such tremendous diversity in Arab society where it concerns this dicsussion - that is attitude towards Indians as a nationality/ethnicity or identity. We must believe - even in the absence of representative surveys or studies that can reach into these myriad fine subdivisions of attitudes - that it exists.

Bilkul satya vachan. Never have broad brush strokes. Even in US, its the poor and uneducated who have low opinion of desis.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Mar 2011 03:19

ldev wrote: The best remedy is to develop India fast enough that Indians do not need to go there and be insulted/maltreated. If you have followed the Gulf long enough you will realize that when oil first quadruped in price in the 1970s, one nationality that used to also go there to work were South Koreans. ... rather than rail and rant in frustration against the Arabs and their mistreatment of Indians?

I agree with that principle. The rant is just to show that these turds cannot earn our respect or support and also to protest against some of our Bollywood scum treating them like gods and visiting them and hobnobbing when they can spend their money elsewhere...these days when offered or sounded out for any business in ME I tell them I prefer visiting the local zoo..few initial trips were more than enough..I wish all Indians that have a choice do so....leave alone the poor that don't...Dont go there for shopping trips certainly...

BTW I do know about the Korean thing...back in Seoul someone showed a street this is known as ME street or something because most buildings were constructed using Gulf money...

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Mar 2011 03:22

I think I was the lone voice here who insisted that USA will withdraw from AFPak sooner than it is pretending. I also insisted that US timeline of withdrawal really starting by summer of 2011 was most likely. They will do a lot of propaganda that they are building large bases etc. in AFG - but that was a small psy-ops correction to counter the fall-out of an early declaration.

Whatever be the internal differences between various ambitious sectors within ME Islamic cauldron, it is the height of stupidity to think that the radicalized Islamists or Jihadis in particular would forever be engaged by the USA and therefore held off from the other "Kufr" which are seen as thorns and eyesores in an otherwise pure-land.

It is a matter of time onlee. The ME Islamists will pretend to have India as a "friend" as along as India serves their interest in the regional geo-politics. This goes for Iranian-11 versus KSA-11 soccer tournament. This is strictly based on the very old Islamic strategy of "accepting" the friendship of "non-Muslim" tribes while they are busy fighting internally or other Qufr tribes. The standard policy and tactics as laid out in the core texts is that this strictly to neutralize one qufr tribe while isolating all the other qufr tribes in "friendly" treaties.

Thus India plays into this trap by trying extra hard to pander up to whichever Islamic grouping its self-appointed genetically-ensured-superior leadership is made to believe in at that particular time point. Indian leadership or their hagiographers at various levels of Indian society start the yelping in a chorus to ensure that Indians in general start believing in this "friendliness" from the "Arabs" or the "Iranians". Rosy imagery of "cultural" links and "historical" "warmth" is conjured into a public intellectual orgiastic frenzy. All that auto-eroticism ultimately hides the gruesome reality of an age-old Islamist tactics - of elimination of the "enemy" piece by piece - by lulling the remainder into a false sense of security in friendship.

So India feels ashamed of its connections with Israel, or with USA, and GOI genius shines brighter than a thousand suns in giving joint statements with other nations into pompously declaring that after all "the root cause" is "Palestine" when it is supposedly talking about a "no fly zone" in Libya.

The ME Islamist world will use India's coyness - along with other such coyness from other similarly shy-virgin-nations to eliminate Israel, and then after that they will turn towards India. Don't worry. Even at that stage the apologetics will take the form of a shrill cry that India deserves such attention because India did not do enough to pander up to ME Islamism. Here we are still trying to find out whether there are micro-mini-difference sin Arab society over treatment of Indians. There must be something wrong with those Indians getting the end of the broom-stick from Arabs? We must look into the micro-dynamics.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 17 Mar 2011 03:27

ramana ji,
perhaps I am a victim of my image. But you must have had a reason. I defer to that.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Mar 2011 03:29

ramana wrote:
Bilkul satya vachan. Never have broad brush strokes. Even in US, its the poor and uneducated who have low opinion of desis.

Ramana-ji are you missing the sarcasm or am I missing the point

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Mar 2011 03:40

Reuters:
Saudi Shiites protest

Shiite is hiting the fan.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 17 Mar 2011 10:37

Iraqis march against Bahrain crackdown - Tehran Times

IMO, Iran will not involve directly into Bahrain-KSA uprisings, but it will use Iraq as proxy to support these moments. Probably its double whammy for USA.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2011 11:21

KSA needs to be cut down to size. surplus cash and a evil idle religously motivated brain have spread the poison all across the world. a domestic simmering rebellion should bring home some realities to the thuggish regime there.

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 17 Mar 2011 12:45

^ Yup. I sincerely hope the uncultured, bigoted savages in the ME kill each other off based on Shia-Sunni fault lines or whatever other division is the flavor of the day.
Fewer of these clowns around + busily trying to kill each other off instead of kaffirs = better for the whole world and India.
I don't care if the mythical few 'good' and 'progressive' arab clowns in the bunch perish with the rest....collateral damage onlee.

I just hope that the price of oil doesn't skyrocket.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Mar 2011 12:59

I luv BRF

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 17 Mar 2011 13:33

Oil price rise is not a bad thing in the medium term - it forces unkil and his bunch of clever scientists to find alternatives double kwik. I have always believed they have found something or inches away from there, just not wanted to commercialise, because all this cheap oil is there and their own companies mint billions from these savages both through oil and thru arms not to speak of the banking system and high class hookers.

Once oil money is gone, humans can pull out of there and leave them to their fate. We can cage one or two and present to the likes of our shyam for detailed analysis of piskology..

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 17 Mar 2011 14:18

Situation Report from Bahrain*

Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are being stopped at ad hoc checkpoints and being thrashed and/or killed.

Mosques are being entered, and knives are used while vehicles outside are being vandalised.

Buildings where Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are resident are being entered and apartment by apartment search conducted, and in at least one building people were killed on the basis of that search and identification.

So far the police and outside troops are not arresting many of the rioters, simply telling them to go home. They are returning home and then setting off again the next day...

Ground situation is very bad, and got very bad very suddenly. It appears an escalation decision was taken by someone somewhere (probably Iran) in the last few days.

All the above violence apparently is done mainly by the Shia, although I would be a little reluctant to accept that in totality. Certainly retaliation is occurring.

*Source - Baluchi with Bahraini nationality, formerly in government service in security bureaucracy, migrated decades ago from Pakistan. (There is a slight twist here in this to avoid identification. The description is accurate, however).