J&K News and Discussion-2011

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4005
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby partha » 19 Mar 2011 10:39

Geelani's speech at India Today conclave: Yaaaaaawn.

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4005
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby partha » 19 Mar 2011 11:00

waah.. the guy from Panun Kashmir launched a missile against Geelani.

Raghavendra
BRFite
Posts: 1252
Joined: 11 Mar 2008 19:07
Location: Fishing in Sadhanakere

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Raghavendra » 19 Mar 2011 12:16

somnath wrote:
Raghavendra wrote:Right on this page you declared your disbelief in conspiracy theories but soon you spin your own one

So you claim RAW is funding a jehadi who wants a nizam-e-mustafa regime with sharia as the constitution, who is responsible for murder of hundreds and destitution of millions of Indians. Very very believable theory

There is no conspiracy theory here...Geelani's funding by RAW (or any other Indian agency) is a very very plausible theory - any paramil/army officer posted in Srinagar will vouch for that...A RAW aircraft flew him to Mumbai for treatment last year.

:mrgreen: :lol: :rotfl:

Could you name atleast 1 paramil/army officer who can support your legless theory. Is his name Amar singh by any chance? :mrgreen:

somnath wrote:Second, Geelani for all his bluster, to use Stalin's immortal lines, "controls no tanks"...His hold over the armed groups is dependent on his favours quotient with the Pak establishment, which ebbs and flows with time...He is on the other hand, and "overground" representative of "azaadi" - someone who gives it the acceptable narrative to the world..His narrative of nizam-e-mustapha (and accession to Pak) is so blatantly out-of-line with the times that it cannot be earning any points with anyone around the world...More he speaks, more support is lost for his cause outside the core islamist element...


Why should he losing support trouble you?

He knows what he wants and demands it.

It always been nizam-e-mustafa and sharia which he wanted and he has been consistent in his demands, he is not playing a video game to collect points.

Sudip
BRFite
Posts: 378
Joined: 28 Oct 2008 05:42
Location: Paikhana

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Sudip » 19 Mar 2011 12:38

Anybody noticed this video of this kashmiri girl crying out loud in some random un conference in geneva against injustices done to her family



then she gives another interview here too


ManishH
BRFite
Posts: 974
Joined: 21 Sep 2010 16:53
Location: Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democractic republic

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 19 Mar 2011 12:40

Three things stood out to me amongst Geelani's usual diatribe. One can safely assume that his demands have a 1-to-1 correspondence with ISI's pain points ...

1. He mentioned VDCs besides the "7lakh fauj" which is an irritant to Pak plans. So VDCs are foiling ISI's larger ethnic cleansing plans.

2. Response to Gen. JJ Singh's question on why no tears for 2 sisters who were slayed by militants in Sopore - he deflected it by parroting the Chattisinghpora conspiracy theory trying to touch the questioner's weak nerve. The man may sound geriatric - but he's no doubt cunning at psy-ops - no wonder a huge ISI asset.

3. Mentions that "fauj" is clearing large swathes of forests. Now I'm sure ISI suddenly hasn't grown green concerns. I think it's hurting militant tactic of keeping arms caches and hideouts in forests.

Rest of his usual human rights bluffs were very easily called off by Mr Kaul. So Geelani ended up beeing booed twice.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 19 Mar 2011 13:03

Humbug. It may be that this time around the separatists were not met by an US official. But, at least from Robin Raphael's time, we know about frequent meetings with the separatists, even facilitated at times by GoI. As late as Oct 2010, a few weeks before Obama's visit to India, Yaseen Malik was met by US embassy officials.

WTF does GoI allow any tom, dick and harry from a thrid country to have closed door meetings with jnown anti-nationals? AFAIK, no other country in the world allows this ( Pak with PoK, China with Uighuirs/Tibetans etc).

Is it safe to assume that GoI will only allow this when they have nesured that the room has been bugged? ( I somehow cant imagine GoI to be so dumb to allow this circus without taking adequate precautions)

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7047
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby JE Menon » 19 Mar 2011 13:11

Is there a youtube or any other link to that Geelani event?

>>WTF does GoI allow any tom, dick and harry from a thrid country to have closed door meetings with jnown anti-nationals?

1. There is no such thing as a "closed door meeting" in the sense that what transpires is unknown to those who need to know.

2. When people are not present those in the meeting tend to be more talkative, and expressive.

3. In short, sometimes being in the meeting is a distinct disadvantage in terms of information collection.

4. It shows our confidence: boss, meet anyone you want, even those who want to destroy India (we'll provide the chai biskoot), talk anything you want, feel free. Number one it is disarming psychologically. Number two its a signal that no matter WTF they do, jackshit is going to happen unless we decide it's going to happen. Number three, all of the above-three points.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby shiv » 19 Mar 2011 13:55

JE Menon wrote: meet anyone you want, even those who want to destroy India (we'll provide the chai biskoot), talk anything you want, feel free. N


:lol: Like the little girl in the video - not cowed down. Not bothered. Not getting undies in a knot. Has a reply for everything.

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5152
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jamwal » 19 Mar 2011 17:04

Can somebody please post some details of the Geela-nahi conference ? Don't have access to TV or a fast net connection these days.

JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7047
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby JE Menon » 19 Mar 2011 17:35

>>Like the little girl in the video

:D :D exactly. I mean look at her, not an inch of backing down, absolutely serious with only the faintest hint of a smile now and then - and all of a sudden in the middle a bit of a dance too. And all the time mouthing absolute sweet rubbish, while the Parents go on asking "why", "why"...

Sort of like the Paks "why don't you give us Kashmir", "why don't you discuss Kashmir", and our chai-biskootwallas, no doubt as expressive as the little one, hands moving here and there, feigning anger, shaking head, etc... and all the time mouthing rubbish which amounts to little more than what that little girl was doing in terms of meaning!!!

ManishH
BRFite
Posts: 974
Joined: 21 Sep 2010 16:53
Location: Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democractic republic

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 19 Mar 2011 18:02


Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21166
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Prem » 19 Mar 2011 21:33

JE Menon wrote:4. It shows our confidence: boss, meet anyone you want, even those who want to destroy India (we'll provide the chai biskoot), talk anything you want, feel free. Number one it is disarming psychologically. Number two its a signal that no matter WTF they do, jackshit is going to happen unless we decide it's going to happen. Number three, all of the above-three points.


This is the onlee way to tell all the sundries who is in charge and control. People who need to know get the message. This is like telling BCs do what u want but nothing meaningful gonna happen til i decide or want it to happen. One must nourish and save the cripple dead baby of enemy so that enemy can watch it wasting every breath and sulking the life away. Let the worms squirm 24/7 so they learn their lesson or die without accomplishing anything . The "martyrs graveyard" ought to be expanded to accomodtae all of them.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 19 Mar 2011 21:52

2. When people are not present those in the meeting tend to be more talkative, and expressive.

3. In short, sometimes being in the meeting is a distinct disadvantage in terms of information collection.

JEM-sir,

The above points would mean that the Yindoos would have access to what is going on between the foreigners and the hurri-rats behing "closed doors" through their own means ( informers/bugs etc since cant expect the foreign envoys to give correct info to GoI about their talks)?

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby somnath » 19 Mar 2011 22:12

Ajatshatru-ji,

I have a deep antipathy towards both rudeness as well as people who are rude, and usually I put the latter very quickly in my ignore list - whether in life or in an internet blog...But before I did that with you, since you display such wonderful abilities at rudeness, I thought maybe you should also inculcate something that is a little more agree-able (or a little less disagreeable) - ie, willingness to learn...

SAS Geelani - you obviously couldnt have enough reading patience (or skills) to read the full text of my post, which was

People like SAS Geelani are so stupid that either they are on the payrolls of RAW (a distinct possibility) or are incredibly naive...The kind of soundbytes he gives destroys the basic and "best" case that the separatists have - of being a non-denominational "freedom" movement, attempted to a certain extent "peacefully"...

Obviously comprehending the gist of this is beyond you....

but on the essential point...

1. About Army/paramil officers vouching for Geelani's establishmetn connections...Here is what RayC, ret Brig who served in J&K said on this very thread..
http://216.14.115.66/viewtopic.php?f=1& ... &start=760

They are there for money, including the old goat Geelani, who I believe is funded by the ISI and the RAW.


Many such officers used to be our neighbours in Delhi, and while I cant quote them in person, the opinion on Geelani was unanimous...

2. In the more mass media domain, Praveen Swami has been writing about Geelani for many many years, for those who are really interested...An early article by him here..
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2010/ ... 203000.htm
If you are any good at Google, you should find many such reports of PRaveen Swami about Geelani's establishment connections...And then maybe you can make posts that are a bit better than stereotyping bengalis as "so and so"...

Till then, lage raho with your rudeness....

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby svinayak » 19 Mar 2011 22:25

Ajatshatru wrote:
Dr Shiv wrote:
I put it to you that you are just a random troll who likes to argue and does not take kindly to being shown that he is wrong even when you are short on facts but skilled at using Google - a facility available to billions.


But if I may....I would like to state:

‘People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order so they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say’. ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., Cat's Cradle

Not only that this poster attributed wrong things on my posting saying that India s economic problem after 1947 was due to british. I have been reading history for most 20 years now and I have never read anything like this.

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby somnath » 19 Mar 2011 22:45

Acharya wrote:Not only that this poster attributed wrong things on my posting saying that India s economic problem after 1947 was due to british. I have been reading history for most 20 years now and I have never read anything like this

You didnt Acharya-ji? Then my sincere apologies! Maybe your reading of 20 years of history didnt lead you conclude this, only that INR was the reserve ccy in ME in the 50's and '60s, and BofA is a "chor" bank...apologies again!

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby svinayak » 19 Mar 2011 22:47

:lol:

Raghavendra
BRFite
Posts: 1252
Joined: 11 Mar 2008 19:07
Location: Fishing in Sadhanakere

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Raghavendra » 19 Mar 2011 23:22

somnath wrote:1. About Army/paramil officers vouching for Geelani's establishmetn connections...Here is what RayC, ret Brig who served in J&K said on this very thread..
http://216.14.115.66/viewtopic.php?f=1& ... &start=760


RayC served in Kargil sector, not in the kashmir valley which is were Geelani operates. So obviously you cant quote him on this.


somnath wrote:2. In the more mass media domain, Praveen Swami has been writing about Geelani for many many years, for those who are really interested...An early article by him here..

Praveen swami is known to have a soft corner for jehadis, infact being an ardent communist working for a communist newspaper The Hindu is known to blame the victims of islamist violence instead of rightly condemning them.

Praveen Swami wrote:Soldiers who fight wars, it is said, best understand the value of peace. Geelani has never fought in the campaign that has cost the lives of thousands of Hizbul Mujahideen cadre, the organisation he patronises.


What kind of reporter calls terrorists who were involved in religious genocide as soldiers? Only those who have started identifying themselves with terrorists. Praveen swami is unrealible source to prop up your legless conspiracy theory.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby brihaspati » 20 Mar 2011 03:07

RAW agent Syed Ali Geelani uvacha :
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011/Mar/20/geelani-seeks-freedom-36.asp
“Even India’s Home Minister (P Chidambaram) has termed Kashmir an issue of broken promises. The lingering of Kashmir dispute has hampered the development of India which is the biggest purchaser of arms. Nearly one lakh people in Delhi are homeless and 25 crore people in India live below poverty line. Kashmiris want freedom from India's forcible occupation. It is high time for India to fulfil its broken promises and give right to self-determination under the supervision of UN to Kashmiris. This is the only amicable and viable solution to resolve the dispute,” he said.

Geelani minced no words in stating that there is high concentration of soldiers in the Valley.
“As humans, you can imagine the miseries of Kashmiris in presence of seven lakh soldiers, besides police and armed village defence committee members. It is ironical that the people of India support the movement in Egypt when it was only 17-day old and neglected the struggle of Kashmiris which is going on for past over six decades,” Geelani said as the gathering which included diplomats, intellectuals and noted personalities from various countries, listened patiently.

“The Indian soldiers operating in the Valley have killed one lakh people, raped 7,000 women, subjected 8000-10000 youth to enforced disappearance. The Valley is teaming up with 50,000 orphans, 30,000 widows and 1,000 half-widows. There are 2700 unidentified graves in which nearly 3000 persons are buried. Besides our youth are being subjected to third degree torture and most of them have been maimed. India claims to be one of the biggest democracies, however Kashmiris are yet to see its democratic face,” he said.

He said Kashmiris have been suffering since 1947. He said soon after the partition, Muslims of Jammu were asked to assemble at a particular place. “According to eyewitness accounts, over five lakhs Muslims were massacred according to a conspiracy to make Jammu a Muslim minority region,” he said.

Geelani did not stop here and accused the soldiers of vandalizing Kashmir forests. “In Shopian district alone, over three lakh trees have been felled by troopers and they are being cut into different sizes in the bandsaw mills operating in bunkers. The soldiers make furniture from the timber and dispatch it to their homes.”

Earlier, Geelani strongly objected to the inclusion of Dr Farooq Abdullah as a speaker in the session at the eleventh hour. “You can treat a disease but you cannot cure a habit. Farooq Sahib is compelled by the habit of gate crashing and that is why he stands between us today,” Geelani said.


The RAW must be on a roll! I would request Chankya experts to see which Chanakyan line has been applied by RAW to create a Geelani who speaks of things as outlined in the quote. No, maybe raising the suspicion that Geelani could be a possible RAW agent is itself a Chankyan RAW strategy from a RAW agent to spread disinformation? :roll:

Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19478
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Raja Bose » 20 Mar 2011 04:32

brihaspati wrote:RAW agent Syed Ali Geelani uvacha :
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011/Mar/20/geelani-seeks-freedom-36.asp
The Valley is teaming up with 50,000 orphans, 30,000 widows and 1,000 half-widows :rotfl: . There are 2700 unidentified graves in which nearly 3000 persons are buried.


The RAW must be on a roll! I would request Chankya experts to see which Chanakyan line has been applied by RAW to create a Geelani who speaks of things as outlined in the quote. No, maybe raising the suspicion that Geelani could be a possible RAW agent is itself a Chankyan RAW strategy from a RAW agent to spread disinformation? :roll:


WTH is a half-widow? One whose husband is half-dead/adh-mara?

And if the graves are unidentified how did he know there were 2700 of them? If Geelani wants freedom, GoI should glady give him his deserved pension of 72 raisins.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby brihaspati » 20 Mar 2011 04:42

^^^Definitely a confirmation of his RAW agent status. He had insider information about the graves. Looked into the files proper. I am tempted to speculate on the half-widow, but this is a family friendly forum.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby brihaspati » 20 Mar 2011 05:12

No problem. I found such suspicions raised on Deaf and Dumb forums about Geelani. It seems Pak is full of RAW agents, probably it is difficult to find any genuine Pakis - given the claims of those forums. No one here on this forum need feel needled.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby Pranav » 20 Mar 2011 08:01

Amnesty report draws parallel between Kashmir and Palestine - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 746223.cms

If domestic and foreign Pacquees organize another "summer of rage" with paid stone-pelters, what is the chance of the UNSC intervening a la Libya?
Last edited by Pranav on 20 Mar 2011 09:19, edited 2 times in total.

ManishH
BRFite
Posts: 974
Joined: 21 Sep 2010 16:53
Location: Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democractic republic

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 20 Mar 2011 08:51

Half-widow = better half of a missing person. That person may be either missing because he's crossed over to PoK or no more. But there's no news of the man conveyed to his family. So his wife doesen't know for sure if she's a widow.

Ajatshatruji and somnathji - sincere request to not suspect each others motives. I'm sure both have best interests of India in mind. Somnathji's off-the-cuff remark about Geelani being RAW is incorrect but such remarks are bound to be thrown in the ambit of free-wheeling brainstorming. Dismiss the remark, but not the man. We can't brand someone as evil based on a single remark.

Realistically speaking, RAW is an external agency and I think only allowed to recruit assets abroad. J&K residents should come under IB and MI only, me thinks. RAW would only be interested in recruiting someone in UJC/Pak army/Pok civilians - someone who's source of info on enemy plans.

menon s
BRFite
Posts: 721
Joined: 01 May 2010 09:51
Location: Bangalore

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby menon s » 20 Mar 2011 09:07

Kashmiri Pandit Aditya Raj Kaul, Stripping Geelani!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGxT646o4CA

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhishek_sharma » 20 Mar 2011 09:09

Which place is this:

Image

13 fotus from US Amb's visit to J&K

http://www.flickr.com/photos/usembassynewdelhi/sets/72157626167636307/

abhishek_sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9664
Joined: 19 Nov 2009 03:27

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby abhishek_sharma » 20 Mar 2011 09:44


vera_k
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3126
Joined: 20 Nov 2006 13:45

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby vera_k » 20 Mar 2011 09:52

Pranav wrote:If domestic and foreign Pacquees organize another "summer of rage" with paid stone-pelters, what is the chance of the UNSC intervening a la Libya?


Zero. Since when has India cared for what the UNSC thinks?

partha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4005
Joined: 02 Jul 2010 15:25

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby partha » 20 Mar 2011 09:54

vera_k wrote:
Pranav wrote:If domestic and foreign Pacquees organize another "summer of rage" with paid stone-pelters, what is the chance of the UNSC intervening a la Libya?


Zero. Since when has India cared for what the UNSC thinks?

Moreover there is democracy in Kashmir. And the fight is to establish an Islamic regime. So why will UNSC intervene?

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 20 Mar 2011 11:18

Realistically speaking, RAW is an external agency and I think only allowed to recruit assets abroad. J&K residents should come under IB and MI only, me thinks. RAW would only be interested in recruiting someone in UJC/Pak army/Pok civilians - someone who's source of info on enemy plans.

Not really..RAW does operate in J&K just like IB operates in Pak/Nepal/BD etc...


Anyways here is another lifafa from another "secular liberal":
Will Kashmir see an Egypt-like uprising?

The indifference, apathy and inaction in Kashmir by the governments both at the Centre and the state has added to a rush by the young people to become the masters of their own destiny, says Seema Mustafa.
<IMG SRC="http://imads.rediff.com/0/OasDefault/Coke_WC_Spons_180x150/coke_bck.gif" WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0>

It does seem that the interlocutors have completed all that they could in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ]. The recent outburst by them against the separatist leaders is indicative of not just frustration, but amounts to closing doors yet again. Somehow in dealing with Kashmir, ego's of not just governments in Delhi [ Images ], but also individuals come into play where rejection is taken personally rather than as a reflection of, and perhaps a reaction to, policies.

To understand this one will need to go back just a little in time. Unable to control the protests in which 112 young people were killed by the security forces, the government decided to take an all party delegation to Jammu and Kashmir. Union Home Minister P Chidambaram [ Images ] led the delegation, with Chief Minister Omar Abdullah [ Images ] playing a distinct second fiddle -- a role he seems to have adjusted to quite happily.

The Valley, unhappy and angry, looked at this exercise with disdain, more so as the separatists continued to be under house arrest. It was only when the Opposition leaders in the delegation insisted on meeting everyone, including the separatists, that the Valley relaxed a little and began to hope that perhaps something would come out of the visit. Of course, nothing did.

And instead of conceding the MPs demand for appointing a parliamentary committee to begin a dialogue with Jammu and Kashmir, the government decided to appoint three interlocutors instead. The rest is history as despite five visits they have been unable to break ground, and even the United Progressive Alliance [ Images ] government has come to the conclusion that this particular exercise has come to nought.

But now what? Nothing, again silence. Some words from the National Conference asking Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [ Images ] to begin talks. No response. Some news that perhaps the home minister would like to begin the talks, but in the tussle neither is moving forward. Not a word from the Congress, only opposition from the BJP, even as the state government directs its police to arrest the able bodied youth in a bid to ward off a summer stir.

Facebook and the Internet are buzzing about the possibility of an Egypt-kind of uprising in Kashmir this spring. The UPA government that has allowed the time to go by without stirring a finger to address the concerns and aspirations of the people, now is supporting a massive crackdown in the Valley where hundreds of Kashmiris, mostly young, are being arrested in midnight swoops by the security forces.


Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was too preoccupied with health matters to seize the initiative that had passed into the hands of an assertive home minister at the beginning of the UPA's second term in office.

And Chidambaram was clearly disinterested in talks. Unfortunately the chief minister was equally disinterested in efficient, sensitive governance leading to the protests of 2010 that the authorities now fear, will feed into the uprising of 2011.

The all party delegation that the home minister had escorted to Jammu and Kashmir had recommended the setting up of a political/parliamentary committee. This too was not accepted by the UPA government with three lightweight interlocutors being appointed instead. The reality is that in doing so the government has not retained the status quo, as many in the establishment still believe, but the indifference and the apathy has added to a rush by the young people to become the masters of their own destiny.'

If the people do come out on the streets, as the authorities are almost certain they will, the government will have to decide whether to tackle it like Egypt or like Libya. In the choice will lie the future of both Kashmir and the rest of India

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby somnath » 20 Mar 2011 11:21

ManishH wrote:Realistically speaking, RAW is an external agency and I think only allowed to recruit assets abroad. J&K residents should come under IB and MI only, me thinks. RAW would only be interested in recruiting someone in UJC/Pak army/Pok civilians - someone who's source of info on enemy plans

I wont go any further on the Geelani question - the truth will be known either to him or his "handlers", and neither is going to testify in BRF...the point being made was different though...

Anyways, on the factual matter of RAW being involved in Kashmir...It is very much involved..It has listening posts in Shankaracharya Hills (as do about half a dozen other intel agencies!) and an extensive infrastructre of techint and humint in J&K...Ex-chief As Dullat was/is an acknowledged Kashmir expert, and was co-opted after retirement by the ABV administration as a special advisor on Kashmir...Widely reported again, Dullat is supposed to be "friendly" with a whole range of Huriyat leaders! MI on the other hand, has a fairly limited mandate....

About "agent" recruitment - its not a simplistic affair...Intel agenceis dont just recruit "agents" in "enemy camp" to pass on information...they post and recruit thousands of sympatisers, influencers, decision-makers all over teh place - for information, to influence decision-making, to simply have a point of view in a certain segment...These ops are hugely more sophisticated than recruitment of an agent doing cloak and dagger stuff....

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10086
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby sum » 20 Mar 2011 11:28

Ex-chief As Dullat was/is an acknowledged Kashmir expert, and was co-opted after retirement by the ABV administration as a special advisor on Kashmir...Widely reported again, Dullat is supposed to be "friendly" with a whole range of Huriyat leaders!

IIRC, during the Rubiayya kidnapping case ( which finally opened the floodgates of terrorism in the 90s and suspected to be a inside job of the Mufti Sayyed family), Shri Dullat( or whoever was the RAW chief at that time) had almost managed to get the lady freed through his background contacts with the kidnappers families. But before he could finish it off, the HM decided to release all the turds who were being bargained for.

That itself should show the involvement of RAW in J&K...

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5152
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby jamwal » 20 Mar 2011 11:30

brihaspati wrote:RAW agent Syed Ali Geelani uvacha :
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2011/Mar/20/geelani-seeks-freedom-36.asp

“As humans, you can imagine the miseries of Kashmiris in presence of seven lakh soldiers, besides police and armed village defence committee members. It is ironical that the people of India support the movement in Egypt when it was only 17-day old and neglected the struggle of Kashmiris which is going on for past over six decades,” Geelani said as the gathering which included diplomats, intellectuals and noted personalities from various countries, listened patiently.

“The Indian soldiers operating in the Valley have killed one lakh people, raped 7,000 women, subjected 8000-10000 youth to enforced disappearance. The Valley is teaming up with 50,000 orphans, 30,000 widows and 1,000 half-widows. There are 2700 unidentified graves in which nearly 3000 persons are buried. Besides our youth are being subjected to third degree torture and most of them have been maimed. India claims to be one of the biggest democracies, however Kashmiris are yet to see its democratic face,” he said.

He said Kashmiris have been suffering since 1947. He said soon after the partition, Muslims of Jammu were asked to assemble at a particular place. “According to eyewitness accounts, over five lakhs Muslims were massacred according to a conspiracy to make Jammu a Muslim minority region,” he said.

:rotfl:

WTF ?
5 lakh muslims massacred in Jammu ? Which one of you mullahs is supplying him hashish ? :rotfl:

MoFu is talking like it's India which caused all the trouble, never mind the inflated figures. These terrorists brought it all upon themselves by first massacring and displacing 4 lakh Pandits, then killing each other for various reasons just like Pakis.. Trouble is, dimwits in India will never check the correct figures and historical facts and completely sympathize with this druggie.

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7732
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby rohitvats » 20 Mar 2011 11:40

Gentlemen,

Please buy and read the book 'The siege of warwan' by ex-major general with long stint in J&K in CI Ops (Sector commander, Force commander)...while this is a fiction, I'm sure it draws heavily from his CI Ops experience.....the book has an operation (the final climax) which goes by the name of 'Shatruvinash'....quite faimiliar name, isn't it? the books deals with challenges of CI ops and difficulty posed by terrain. Bought it on me way back from Mumbai at the airport and finished it in one sitting....good read.

ManishH
BRFite
Posts: 974
Joined: 21 Sep 2010 16:53
Location: Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democractic republic

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby ManishH » 20 Mar 2011 11:49

somnath wrote:About "agent" recruitment - its not a simplistic affair...Intel agenceis dont just recruit "agents" in "enemy camp" to pass on information...they post and recruit thousands of sympatisers, influencers, decision-makers all over teh place - for information, to influence decision-making, to simply have a point of view in a certain segment...These ops are hugely more sophisticated than recruitment of an agent doing cloak and dagger stuff....


Do you know if we invest into influencing decision-making/public opinion about J&K in Pak ? To me, it's a hopeless exercise given the public opinion in Pak. I'd think >90% of our J&K related intelligence work in Pak/PoK would be focused on information gathering.

I can understand if US/Cheen invests in influencing public opinion in India and vice-versa.

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby somnath » 20 Mar 2011 12:02

sum wrote:IIRC, during the Rubiayya kidnapping case ( which finally opened the floodgates of terrorism in the 90s and suspected to be a inside job of the Mufti Sayyed family), Shri Dullat( or whoever was the RAW chief at that time) had almost managed to get the lady freed through his background contacts with the kidnappers families

That would be AS Sialli I think...

kittoo
BRFite
Posts: 969
Joined: 08 Mar 2009 02:08

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby kittoo » 20 Mar 2011 13:17

Pranav wrote:Amnesty report draws parallel between Kashmir and Palestine - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 746223.cms

If domestic and foreign Pacquees organize another "summer of rage" with paid stone-pelters, what is the chance of the UNSC intervening a la Libya?


There is no chance at all, absolutely none. Leaving all aside, India is no Libya. That alone should suffice. Who is going to vote in favour, even if someone gets the balls to propose that? China, maybe?

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7397
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby disha » 20 Mar 2011 13:37

Pranav wrote:Amnesty report draws parallel between Kashmir and Palestine - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 746223.cms

If domestic and foreign Pacquees organize another "summer of rage" with paid stone-pelters, what is the chance of the UNSC intervening a la Libya?


^None.

And TOIlet dredges up a report, while Amnesty has become an hand maiden of the west. Funny thing, Amnesty has no report on Baki Qadrification. What about ahmediyas and shias? Maybe for TOIlet and Amnesty they are all wajib-bull-cattle.

somnath
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3416
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 12:31
Location: Singapore

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby somnath » 20 Mar 2011 17:21

ManishH wrote:Do you know if we invest into influencing decision-making/public opinion about J&K in Pak ? To me, it's a hopeless exercise given the public opinion in Pak. I'd think >90% of our J&K related intelligence work in Pak/PoK would be focused on information gathering.

I can understand if US/Cheen invests in influencing public opinion in India and vice-versa

We dont know - unfortunately there isnt a lot of literature on Indian intel ops over the years, and almost nothing by "insiders"..(Barring B Raman's Kaoboys)...But it would be safe to assume that some amount of efforts would be going on...Epecially with characters like the Baloch, the Jiye Sindh movement etc..

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24105
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: J&K News and Discussion-2011

Postby SSridhar » 20 Mar 2011 19:00

The Human Angle of the Kashmir Story
UNLIKE many other books on Kashmir, Luv Puri’s Across the LoC: Inside Pakistan-Administered Jammu and Kashmir, concentrates on the socio-economic side of the 63-year-old dispute, touching upon the geopolitical part of the story only briefly to provide perspective.

While narrating the events leading to Kashmir’s status, the author makes one big omission: the book doesn’t mention the stand-still agreement signed between Pakistan and the maharaja. This agreement by the de jure maharaja gave Pakistan the right to run railways and postal services, and Pakistan’s flag flew in Srinagar. The basis of Pakistan’s case rests legally on this instrument of accession signed by a de jure ruler; the moral case is, of course, based on the several UN resolutions which call for a reference to the people of Kashmir.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests