Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2011

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Chinmayanand
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Chinmayanand »

Subhanallah!!! Kya soch hai, kya teer-e-nazar hai ? Kya andaz-e-bayan hai?
Maza as Gaya.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

Shi'a Killed In Bus Attack In Pakistan's Kurram Agency
At least seven bus passengers in Pakistan's Kurram tribal agency have been gunned down by unknown assailants, RFE/RL's Radio Mashaal reports.

All those killed on March 25 were unarmed Shi'a Muslims who were traveling in a small bus, witnesses told Radio Mashaal. Five more people were injured in the attack.

The attack comes less than two months after rival Sunni and Shi'a Muslims agreed on a peace agreement.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Brad Goodman »

China to Sell Outdated Nuclear Reactors to Pakistan
Chinese authorities have already suspended approvals of new nuclear plants within the country because of safety concerns sparked by the disasters in Japan.

But when Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu was asked Thursday about whether Beijing is similarly concerned about exporting outdated nuclear technology to Pakistan, she dismissed it as unrelated.
"So far most of the reactors that the Chinese themselves have built on the basis of their own know-how reflects a technology which was available in the West and in advanced nuclear countries outside of China about 30 years ago," he said. "The Chinese are exporting this equipment - this is the technology which China has been exporting to Pakistan. I don’t believe right now that there is a major world market outside of Pakistan which is very interested in this technology."
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by sunnyP »

:(
Pakistan Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani has accepted Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s invitation to watch the India-Pakistan World Cup cricket semi-final in Mohali on Wednesday, said government sources. He is likely to land at Chandigarh airport and leave for Islamabad after the match.
Meanwhile, more than 5,000 Pakistani visitors are expected for the high voltage match.
And how many will go back?
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_ma ... ys_1524874
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by sanjaykumar »

Pakistan, home to a ‘schizophrenic society’, says doctor

Hmmm,
BRF may have more influence in Pakistan than anticipated.

I posted a couple of weeks ago something on Pakistanis as paranoid schizophrenic second cousins.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by CRamS »

India's surrender masqeuarding as diplomatic maneuver.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 796551.cms

Kiyani's response will be, we appreciate your offer of talks, how about plebiscite in the Kashmir valley for a start. and we'll see where we go from there. And why would Kiyani not behave as the victor? After all, he hammered India with his pigLeTs, and his minions get invitation to eat kabab and watch kirket, while he gtes guboing from the highest levels of Indian govt. Thoo.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by partha »

http://english.samaylive.com/nation-new ... ation.html

To women of Mohali attending the match: beware, groper is coming..
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by sanjaykumar »

Hehe they say the pahari women enchant plainsmen.

Oddly enough there is bit of that in Kim and the woman from Kulu.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by vijayk »

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... af/767748/
India is an 'existential threat' to Pakistan, says Musharraf
Former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said India is an "existential threat" to his country and blamed New Delhi for its nuclear weaponisation programme.

Asked which is more of a threat to Pakistan- extremism or India - he chooses the former.

"At the moment, it's extremism and terrorism. But you can't compare. Let's not think this is a permanent situation.

"The orientation of 90 per cent of Indian troops is against Pakistan. We cannot ever ignore India, which poses an existential threat to Pakistan," Musharraf told Time magazine in an interview.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by ramana »

Must be having too much of that sherbet/zam zam cola janoo was talking about!
In fact I think so all those patriots, from Musharraf who sits every day with a cigar and a glass of sherbet in a London club
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by arun »

Friday Times cartoon on the release of US “Diplomat” “Raymond Davis” from the custody of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on payment of “Blood Money” for shooting dead two in Lahore.

Nicely captures the “Rentier State” ethos of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Image
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Hari Seldon »

Well, how fitting that MOhali is indeed close to the original Kurukshetra where the original great war was fought....:)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by ManuT »

vijayk wrote:http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... af/767748/
India is an 'existential threat' to Pakistan, says Musharraf
Former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said India is an "existential threat" to his country and blamed New Delhi for its nuclear weaponisation programme.

Asked which is more of a threat to Pakistan- extremism or India - he chooses the former.

"At the moment, it's extremism and terrorism. But you can't compare. Let's not think this is a permanent situation.

"The orientation of 90 per cent of Indian troops is against Pakistan. We cannot ever ignore India, which poses an existential threat to Pakistan," Musharraf told Time magazine in an interview.
a case of facts coming out of Musharraf.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Ambar »

Heard something so revolting that i threw up a little inside my mouth! Apparently, GoI and Punjab Govt have arranged free luxury coaches to take 5000+ visiting Porkis to the city, ferry them to stadium and back to their hotels. Sandeep UnniKrishnan and countless other martyrs who laid their lives down for India must be spinning in their graves thanks to this so called 'Chanakianess'!
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by pgbhat »

^ If that is really the case, I would think it is to keep track of them, so that they don't go "missing". :)
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by GuruPrabhu »

I agree that it is a "control" measure. No chankiness here.

btw, I do hope that UnniKrishnan is not is some grave somewhere.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by kenop »

Looks like 1 poak kirkit fan = 100 SDRE fans
A ticker on a news channel says there are only 50 tickets for poaks and we hear of 5000 of these being ferried around.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by ManuT »

Is it WTF news day today? :shock:


India to open talks with Pak army, ISI chief.

NEW DELHI: India has asked its envoy in Pakistan to open channels of communication with Pakistani army chief General Pervez Kayani as well as ISI chief Shuja Pasha, which, if he agrees, could open up new possibilities of deepening Indo-Pak engagement.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=14558
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by shiv »

Hari Seldon wrote:Well, how fitting that MOhali is indeed close to the original Kurukshetra where the original great war was fought....:)
With respect saar the match is now being made into something greater than a damn kirkit match. Not least by MMS. But you also? India winning will not make Pakistan get better and if India loses you can figure out the reaction based on your equal equal.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by somnath »

ManuT wrote:Is it WTF news day today? :shock:


India to open talks with Pak army, ISI chief.

NEW DELHI: India has asked its envoy in Pakistan to open channels of communication with Pakistani army chief General Pervez Kayani as well as ISI chief Shuja Pasha, which, if he agrees, could open up new possibilities of deepening Indo-Pak engagement.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=14558
ManuT-ji, finally India's doing something that we should have done 3 years back..What is the point in having any discussion - for negotiation, threatening or anything elese - with civvie leaders? Its a complete waste of time..Principals around the world recognise that...We do too, but somehow always developed queasiness about implementing a course of action based on that (maybe our fetish with protocol?)...Its good that we are doing it finally...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by menon s »

Somnath Wrote,
ManuT-ji, finally India's doing something that we should have done 3 years back..What is the point in having any discussion - for negotiation, threatening or anything elese - with civvie leaders? Its a complete waste of time..Principals around the world recognise that...We do too, but somehow always developed queasiness about implementing a course of action based on that (maybe our fetish with protocol?)...Its good that we are doing it finally...
Sir, i think talking to Pak army will be non starter. Pls read this article
http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/20 ... es-to-ghq/
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by somnath »

^^^Talks need not necessarily be on things we "think" gets discussed...they can also be for passing on messages directly...And any message that we have, it is better to convey that to the real power centre, rather than via media the politicians...

I would say that the NSA can be the key principal on our side...He has the political heft (derived from the PM), and he engaging the Army/ISI chief does not breach protocol in a major way (NSA has Minister-of-state rank)...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by habal »

Is this rubbish from an Indian author or paki ?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by arun »

X Posted from the Capitulation at Sharm El Sheikh thread.

The consequence of the mind boggling stupidity that led our Congress party led UPA Government of Dr. Manmohan Singh to include Balochistan in the Sharm El Sheikh joint declaration is not going away. Neither it appears will the Congress Party attempts by its leaders such as Rahul Gandhi and Digvijay Singh to woo the Muslim communal vote bank by playing up “Hindu Terrorism“. :

Balochistan to figure in talks with India
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by CRamS »

somnath wrote:^^^Talks need not necessarily be on things we "think" gets discussed...they can also be for passing on messages directly...And any message that we have, it is better to convey that to the real power centre, rather than via media the politicians...

I would say that the NSA can be the key principal on our side...He has the political heft (derived from the PM), and he engaging the Army/ISI chief does not breach protocol in a major way (NSA has Minister-of-state rank)...
India so far has not has any inclination to send messages. And do you think Kiyani has not got the messages, if any, that India may have sent through his civilian minions? And after all the pigLeT hits Kiyani has scored over India, suffering no retribution, you think he can't deliver back messages of his own? He will bluntly say conduct plebiscite in the valley. And what will the dhotiwallahs' response be to that? Maybe hold talks to those who control Kiyani, i.e., Washington? If sending messages is the intent, I can't see a faster way to deliver them than sending them through Washington.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by SSridhar »

vijayk wrote:India is an 'existential threat' to Pakistan, says Musharraf
Former Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said India is an "existential threat" to his country and blamed New Delhi for its nuclear weaponisation programme.
The highlighted portion above is utter falsehood, which is not surprising coming as does from a Pakistani.

Frequently, the Pakistanis claim falsely that their pursuit of nuclear weapons started after their defeat in the 1971 war and especially after India detonated its first nuclear device in circa 1974. However, Pakistan's quest for nukes started in late 1964 as soon as the Chinese exploded their first device in October 1964. Pakistan had already forged a friendlier relationship with the Chinese under the young foreign minister Z.A. Bhutto who even ceded a portion of PoK to them. Ayub Khan and Z.A. Bhutto began a series of manoueveres with the Chinese to get nuclear know-how. In his manuscript "If I am Assassinated" written from his death cell, Z.A.Bhutto has clearly said that the negotiations with the Chinese started in circa 1965 and Foreign Secretary Late Agha Shahi has since confirmed that. Let us remember that Pakistan had ceded more than 5000 Sq. Km of Shaksgam Valley to PRC by March 1963 and even given up claims to other territories that are part of Xinjiang today. China was grateful and its gratitude was to grow immensely later when Pakistan facilitated the US-China rapprochement. It was in 1965 in the General Assembly of the UN that Z.A.Bhutto said famously, “We Pakistanis will eat grass but shall live to win. We will fight for a thousand years but we will not submit or yield.”. So, the Pakistani efforts predate the "Smiling Buddha" by a decade. PAEC chief Dr. Munir Akram recalls FM Ayub Khan saying in late 1965 that ‘ . . . if needed, Pakistan could get it from China’, referring to the nuclear weapons. Later, in September 1974, Z.A. Bhutto told A.Q.Khan who approached him with the idea of building an enrichment plant using designs he could steal from The Netherlands, “Beg, borrow or steal. We must make the nuclear device to counter the threat posed by India.” By c. 1973, Pakistan had made significant decisions in making its nuclear weapon.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by SSridhar »

CRamS, I agree with you. Talks with the PA will go nowhere. When it comes to dealing with India, the PA behaves as though it were a conquering army dealing with cowering subjects it has just subjugated. The American model does not work. The US, though a declining superpower, has still many leverages with the Pakistanis while we have none. OTOH, India is the mortal enemy with which PA wants to settle the score one way or another. India cannot change the PA mindset, vengeance or doctrine. One has to read Shuja Nawaz (brother of the assassinated COAS of PA) on how Bhutto was instructed to conduct the Simla negotiations by an utterly defeated PA with 93K soldiers as PoW in Indian hands, to appreciate this. Americans mistakenly think that their model works everywhere. Again, I see it as an Indian capitulation to American pressure. A future WikiLeak expose will reveal this, Insh'a All'ah.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by partha »

habal wrote:
Is this rubbish from an Indian author or paki ?
Why do you think it is rubbish?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Gagan »

India is going to talk to the Pakistani Army?

Long Overdue step. Of all the nations, it seems we, the one most affected by Pakistani army sponsored terrorism were the last to figure this out
You keep your friends close, your enemies closer...
The pakistani army will try to formulate some way in which this interaction with GoI will be 'profitable' to them, just as interaction with all other interlocuters and countries has to be 'profitable' to the top army brass there, for any talks with them to succeed.

Now what is it that India can give the Pakistani Army?
Nothing except for atmospherics on Kashmir. The Pakistani army wants to solve Kashmir even less than GoI does, both parties for their own interests want a solution Kashmir to be postponed to some future date. The Pakistani Army wants some source of friction with India to be everpresent, after 60 years of trying to wreast Jammu and Kashmir from India, it is an H&D issue for them, and now they realize that the Kashmiris hate them for terrorism that they sponsor. Terrorism is the only way they have a foot in the door in J&K, they have no legal, moral, religious, political basis for a claim. On its part, GoI is waiting for Pakistan to run out of steam in Kashmir, waiting for time to heal the wounds of the past in the valley.

There is only one thing both parties could possibly agree on.

Money.

India will possibly pay off the army wallahs to temper / regulate terrorism against India, in return India will probably pay off the generals.

The risk is that soon the pakistani generals will be holding the Indian state to ransom just like they hold other countries to ransom.

my do naya paisa.
Last edited by Gagan on 27 Mar 2011 10:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by arun »

vijayk wrote:http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... af/767748/

India is an 'existential threat' to Pakistan, says Musharraf {Snipped}.............
FWIW the same from Time Magazine interview of former military dictator of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan Gen. (Retd) Parvez Musharraf cited in the Indian Express article posted by you:
Which is more of a threat to Pakistan — extremism or India?

At the moment, it's extremism and terrorism. But you can't compare. Let's not think this is a permanent situation. The orientation of 90% of Indian troops is against Pakistan. We cannot ever ignore India, which poses an existential threat to Pakistan.
From here:

10 Questions for Pervez Musharraf
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by habal »

partha wrote: Why do you think it is rubbish?
hmm. It's pretty obvious that we need to talk to those who actually make the decisions rather than those who convey/interpret them on our behalf to the real decision-makers. Between the cup and lip there's many a slip. India's message (for lack of a better term!) may get contorted or diluted by the time it reaches the real decision-makers depending upon the position of the interlocuter. Direct talks with tspa may go nowhere, but it is important to establish direct relations with those people who really matter rather than those who just front for them like middle-men which is the diplomatic core of pakistan. That the tspa has shown readiness to allow the govt of India to make such an overture itself shows that they are willing to some degree.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by partha »

Gagan wrote:India is going to talk to the Pakistani Army?

Long Overdue step. Of all the nations, it seems we, the one most affected by Pakistani army sponsored terrorism were the last to figure this out
You keep your friends close, your enemies closer...
The pakistani army will try to formulate some way in which this interaction with GoI will be 'profitable' to them, just as interaction with all other interlocuters and countries has to be 'profitable' to the top army brass there, for any talks with them to succeed.

Now what is it that India can give the Pakistani Army?
Nothing except for atmospherics on Kashmir. The Pakistani army wants to solve Kashmir even less than GoI does, both parties for their own interests want a solution Kashmir to be postponed to some future date. The Pakistani Army wants some source of friction with India to be everpresent, GoI is waiting for Pakistan to run out of steam in Kashmir, waiting for time to heal the wounds of the past in the valley.

There is only one thing both parties could possibly agree on.

Money.

India will possibly pay off the army wallahs to temper / regulate terrorism against India, in return India will probably pay off the generals.

The risk is that soon the pakistani generals will be holding the Indian state to ransom just like they hold other countries to ransom.

my do naya paisa.
Gaganji.

First of all I feel it is a total waste of time and money to talk to anyone in Pakistan. India was always talking to GHQ, no? I mean through GHQ's representatives ("civilian govt"). So the outcome in this case should be the same as in previous talks right?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by partha »

habal wrote:
partha wrote: Why do you think it is rubbish?
hmm. It's pretty obvious that we need to talk to those who actually make the decisions rather than those who convey/interpret them on our behalf to the real decision-makers. Between the cup and lip there's many a slip. India's message (for lack of a better term!) may get contorted or diluted by the time it reaches the real decision-makers depending upon the position of the interlocuter. Direct talks with tspa may go nowhere, but it is important to establish direct relations with those people who really matter rather than those who just front for them like middle-men which is the diplomatic core of pakistan. That the tspa has shown readiness to allow the govt of India to make such an overture itself shows that they are willing to some degree.
habalji,
I don't think the article is rubbish. It was written back then when there were rumors that India might offer to talk to GHQ. You should read it in that context. It makes lot of good points -
India has little leverage over Pakistan, whether diplomatic, economic or military. While creating a leverage in the first two domains may not be in India’s sole control, regenerating and building up its military capacity is a course that India can single-handedly pursue. [See this blogpost on why the only way for India to have successful peace talks with Pakistan is by building its military capacity.]
To put it bluntly, there is no incentive for the GHQ to listen to India now. Once India has the ability to generate that coercive power to hurt GHQ’s interests, only then would it be willing for talks with India.
That is the crux of the matter. It is not about talks. It is not about what we talk either. It is also not about whom we talk to: for irrespective of the face we may see in Pakistan, the voice we hear — and the message that it delivers — will always come from the same quarters in Rawalpindi. It is about our capacity to make them listen.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by partha »

One thing is sure. The 50 odd Pakistani liberals will now shout from the roof tops about how India is undermining the civilian govt by talking to army.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by GuruPrabhu »

what's new here? All that talking that ABV did with Mir Musharraf, wasn't that "talking to the army"? Fat lot of good came out of that.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by SSridhar »

Visa relaxation may not bring many Pakistanis to Mohali
However much India may now relax visa requirements to allow Pakistanis to get to Mohali in time for the India-Pakistan semi-final match of the cricket World Cup on Wednesday, not more than a few 100 will get there.

Getting a visa to either country is such a Herculean task that few even attempt it. Before the semi-final match between India and Pakistan became a certainty, less than 150 visas had been issued by the Indian High Commission in Islamabad for the cricket season. This includes the players, their families and members of the Pakistan Cricket Board.

And now, when the High Commission has decided to entertain applications at the eleventh hour and issue visas to persons whose bona fides are known — those who have visited India previously and gone through the security drill once in the past — it is a tad too late.

In fact, officials at the High Commission are a bit surprised, if not a tad disappointed, that there has not been a surge in applications after Pakistan got closer to the World Cup. But now it seems that more than the Indian visa, tickets to the Mohali match have become dear.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by SSridhar »

Pakistan looking to ease visa regime with India
Pakistan expects the existing visa regime to come in for detailed discussion as, according to officials, both countries have exchanged proposals for relaxation in certain cases. Islamabad has apparently suggested group tourist visas, 90-day visa for businessmen, and visa-on-arrival for people over 65 years but India has not warmed up to these suggestions till now.

Led by Interior Secretary Qamar Zaman Chaudhry, the delegation will include the Director-General of the Federal Investigation Agency{he is a lame duck DG, on his way out}, and representatives of the Ministry of Narcotics Control.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Suppiah »

SSridhar wrote:. But now it seems that more than the Indian visa, tickets to the Mohali match have become dear.
that is not a problem...Gilani can issue a veiled threat that extremism and terrorism can be controlled and reduced by issuing free tickets to Pakistanis..unfortunately US does not play cricket or begging the Uncle is an option...
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by khaushik »

Both India and Pakistan are thrilled and anxious about the semi-final to be played at Mohali, Punjab on March 30th 2011.

“Should India let Pakistani citizens enter India for the purpose of the sport?”

While we may convince ourselves on humanitarian grounds to agree, our agreement requires to be implemented meticulously through the prism of national security.

The Indian government should set a limit on the number of visas to be issued specific for this purpose.

The Visa should be only for a single day, March 30, 2011 and for the specific city, Mohali.

Every Pakistani spectator should be scanned at the border.The fans should be transported across the border straight to the stadium.

In the stadium, the Pakistani spectators should be provided a designated corridor with access to all
utilities but no Pakistani fan should be able to slip out the designated corridor.

Right after the match, the Pakistani fans should be boarded back into the designated transport vehicle and taken back across the border.

The extra cost for such an arrangement should be bared by the Pakistani fans and the ICC and not by the Indian government.

While the nature of implementation could be critiqued as sinister, immoral, or dehumanization, even one terrorist slipping in to India would cost us much blood and more money.

If we don’t handle the Pakistani spectators in such a fashion, we are only inviting a platform for cross border terrorism.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Feb. 12, 2

Post by Altair »

^^
Why cant we simply radio tag them as someone above suggested. Its simple and effective. MEA must think about this.
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