Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 29 Mar 2011 14:38

^^^
Just an opinion piece, his analysis and the article title are both cr*p

He is saying that we need(should??) not test ASAT - just keep shouting "I got the capability" - that is sufficient to deter China.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Mar 2011 15:06

It is psy-ops to deter India from going ahead with overt ASAT capability.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Mar 2011 15:36

SSridhar wrote:It is psy-ops to deter India from going ahead with overt ASAT capability.

Has India ever been deterred by some ones psy-ops WRT any capability being developed by it? That it will be detered by it today.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Mar 2011 00:05

He is sure its cat. Not sure tiger or house cat.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 30 Mar 2011 02:18

the intelligence community to ponder and for its neighbor China to consider.

Looks like he is a spokesperson for PRC.
PRC must have paid him abd given him business. PRC now uses firangi to do its psy ops

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 30 Mar 2011 03:04

India To Test Fire Indo-Israeli, Long-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (LR-SAM), Barak-2 Missile This Year
Aviation Week

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 30 Mar 2011 04:27

Rafael lines up $1.8 billion India deal

TEL AVIV, Israel, March 29 (UPI) -- Israel's Rafael Advanced Defense Systems is expected to secure an anti-tank missile order worth $1 billion from the Indian military, consolidating the Jewish state as a key arms supplier amid a major armed forces upgrade.

Rafael, which posted a record net profit of $178.6 million in 2010, is also in line to secure arms sales to South Korea worth $500 million a year, The Jerusalem Post reported.

These underline a new focus by Israel's high-tech defense industry on the Asian market, spurred in part in response to China's military buildup.

According to Defense News, a U.S. weekly, Rafael will sell the Indian army 8,356 Spike anti-tank missiles with 321 launchers, 15 training simulators and associated equipment.

Rafael was the only bidder in the Indian tender unveiled last June and the Indian army had to obtain a special government permit to sign a deal with the sole bidder.

Defense News said technology transfer was also a potential obstacle.

It isn't clear whether companies that didn't make bids -- General Dynamics Corp. and the Raytheon Co. of the United States, Rosoboronexport of Russia and Europe's MBDA -- had refused to share technology.

The Indians intend to mount the precision-guided Spikes on Russian-built combat vehicles. The Israeli missiles reportedly met all the Indians' requirements -- a range of 1.5 miles in day or night conditions, a 90 percent accuracy rate and include a 3G active-passive fire-and-forget guidance system.

Rafael, which a decade ago was a loss-maker, announced financial results March 23, listing 2010 sales at $1.97 billion and an orders backlog of $3.56 billion at year-end.

Rafael cited a slowdown in demand for defense products in key world markets as defense budgets were adjusted following the 2008 financial meltdown.

But Chief Financial Officer David Vaish told the Globes, an Israeli business daily: "We're still talking about a very handsome orders backlog, which amounts to almost two years of sales. This is not a crisis."

Israel depends on military exports to keep its defense industry going to supply much of its own military needs.

Rafael is pinning export hopes on its newly unveiled Trophy missile defense system for tanks, currently being fitted to the Israeli army's Merkava tanks and armored personnel carriers.

The South Koreans are set to deploy the long-range version of Rafael's Spike missile in 2012 on Yeonpyeong Island, which was shell by North Korea in November.

"The military is hoping to purchase some 50 Spike missiles equipped with a global positioning system," a government source in Seoul told the Yonhap News Agency in February.

The Iron Dome anti-missile system against short-range rockets, which the Israeli military deployed on the border with the Palestinian-held Gaza Strip this week, is seen as another seller.

The Indians are keen on acquiring the Arrow-2 anti-ballistic missile system built by Israel Aerospace Industries and the Boeing Co. that has been used in Israel since 2000 to counter Iran's Shehab-3b missiles.

But any deal on that would require U.S. approval since the Americans share in the financing, development, production and assembly of the system.

The Arrow hasn't been cleared for foreign sales but when it is India, one of the Israeli defense industry's largest customers, is likely to be top of the list.

Among recent big-ticket Israel arms sales to India are:

-- Rafael's $1 billion contract in 2009 to provide 18 Spyder surface-to-air missile systems by 2012.

-- IAI's 2009 $1.1 billion deal for advanced Barak-8 tactical air-defense system, primarily for use aboard warships.

-- India launched an IAI-built RISAT-2 all-weather spy satellite from the Sriharikota launch site in southern Andhra Pradesh state, forging strategic cooperation in space projects between the two allies.

-- IAI sold the Indian air force three Phalcon early warning aircraft worth $1.1 billion in 2004.

All told, Israeli companies have sold India weapons systems and other military equipment worth more than $10 billion over the last decade, making Israel New Delhi's second largest supplier after Russia.

Hindu-dominated India established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1992 following the end of the Cold War, during which New Delhi supported the Arab cause.

But it wasn't until the Hindu Bjaratiya Janata Party came to power in 1998 that the defense partnership was really forged.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Mar 2011 06:46

Acharya wrote:
the intelligence community to ponder and for its neighbor China to consider.
Looks like he is a spokesperson for PRC.
PRC must have paid him abd given him business. PRC now uses firangi to do its psy ops

Pakistan has done that for decades and the PRC is learning.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Mar 2011 08:01

VinodTK wrote:Rafael lines up $1.8 billion India deal

Hindu-dominated India established diplomatic relations with Israel in 1992 following the end of the Cold War, during which New Delhi supported the Arab cause.

But it wasn't until the Hindu Bjaratiya Janata Party came to power in 1998 that the defense partnership was really forged.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 30 Mar 2011 11:56

^^ Vinod & other members - Request you to check the content before posting. The basic news - Spike purchase - has already been posted. The rest of the news article is utter rubbish. It is not worthy giving publicity to rubbish.

I doubt the Spike purchase news anyways - there was no corresponding news of DAC/CCS clearance. For upgraded BMPs upgraded Konkurs M is in production. Every news agency is copy pasting the single defense news article - a US publication - that started the chain.

And regarding Indian relations with Israel, that started in the 50's, 40 odd years before BJP came to power. India diverted part of its Dassault Ouragan orders & spares to Israel in the 50's when Israel was facing sanctions. And Israel provided some of its Finnish Tampella mortars for mountain warfare when we were hard pressed during 1962.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 30 Mar 2011 14:52

Is there an accessible log of CCS decisions? So, do not have to rely on our reliable Media?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 30 Mar 2011 16:18

pib.nic.in

When Indian Centurion tanks were retired around 1982, I believe the Israelis and South Africans purchased our entire stock of spares, et al. Apparently PIO in South Africa supported the apartheid regime because the community prospered and brokered the deal...

Added later - And the information is no longer a state secret! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_ ... uth_Africa That country was under sanctions in 1982, our friendly Cuban in T55s were in Angola fighting Indian supplied Centurions.

rad · Post by **rad** » 01 Apr 2011 12:26

If the news that we are going in for the spike is true then it could mean the death of the Nag missile . As it would not make sense reinventing the wheel when the all the versions of the spike are available including the heli launched version . What i hear is no one was willing to transfer the tech i e raytheon, boeing , mbda etc. The heli launched spike has a range of 8km. This is the only 4th gen missile system that where an up date is possible in flight via a FOC and video relay . This makes it unjammable.

rad

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Apr 2011 18:02

tsarkar-ji, jagjivan ram's son brokered the deal iirc

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Apr 2011 18:12

defense news is garbage, wait for other sources before discussing this threadbare.

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 01 Apr 2011 18:42

India's Anti-Tank HELINA To Spawn Longer Range Strike Weapon

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Apr 2011 19:05

the brimstone has proven this idea is good. not all targets require even a 250lb LGB and these are too heavy for cheaply powered flight and do not have autonomous IIR. the 100lb HELINA-ER will be good weapon to have.

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 02 Apr 2011 00:24

Pratik_S wrote:India's Anti-Tank HELINA To Spawn Longer Range Strike Weapon

thats great news,
It will be a new class of weapon and i will certainly add a lot of value and firepower.
It will be interesting to see what kind of terminal guidance it will and if it can have mid-course flight path update.

-sameer

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 02 Apr 2011 01:38

Waht happened to the regular NAG induction

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 02 Apr 2011 15:23

suryag wrote:Waht happened to the regular NAG induction

Under induction, a few more will be ordered soon.

srai · Post by **srai** » 03 Apr 2011 04:32

Pratik_S wrote:
suryag wrote:Waht happened to the regular NAG induction
Under induction, a few more will be ordered soon.

India’s IGMP Missile Programs

31-Aug-2010 ...

Nag buys currently stand at 443 missiles, to be mounted on 13 of Larsen and Toubro’s 14.5t tracked “Namica” missile carriers (a modified BMP-2)...

...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2011 08:04

thats a very small order, not even enough to consider it a anti-tank 'regiment'

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Apr 2011 08:30

A gripe from the same article (and many others):

Akash (“sky”):

Akash is "space", NOT "sky". Somehow it has been accepted as "sky".

Nabha is "sky".

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 03 Apr 2011 14:47

The programme director has also revealed that a feasibility study is officially on to integrate the HELINA onto the Rustom-H MALE UAV.

Good news

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 03 Apr 2011 15:44

Sagar G wrote:
The programme director has also revealed that a feasibility study is officially on to integrate the HELINA onto the Rustom-H MALE UAV.
Good news

HELINA would be a good replacement for Hellfire over skies of our neighbour

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Apr 2011 19:34

Whats the warhead weight of NAG/HELINA ?

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 04 Apr 2011 08:11

^^^
wiki says HELLINA(NAG-e-jehannum) has 8kg warhead while HELLFIRE(Aag-e-jehannum) has 9kg warhead. Overall weight of both is almost the same.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Apr 2011 09:32

So many possibilities if IAF sees them.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Apr 2011 10:38

pakistan is actively looking at integrating some other ATGM into its Falco and other UAVs after request for armed Reapers was denied. no doubt so is PRC. other players in the game like denel, italy, france will likely provide some soln.

one has to keep up with the neighbourhood or face problems.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 04 Apr 2011 16:23

no doubt so is PRC

They have done it already.

The Reaper clone - Pterodactyl is in advanced stages of testing.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Apr 2011 16:30

indeed. thanks for cueing us on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cYCBlcN ... re=related

we can expect china to have this into squadron service in say 5 years and pakis in around 8.

time to pull up panties on Rustom and Helina, fund it appropriately and built something appropriate for reaper role too, not just surveillance...even if it means not 101% desi but 30% israeli.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Apr 2011 17:39

And India needs a SAM on the double to bring that chinese petrodactyl down if it intrudes into Indian airspace.

Also GoI needs to let them know that inspite of their gut instincts to deploy those UAVs in la la land, it will not be appreciated in nai dilli at all. Time to ensure that certain techs are not given to the Pakis by cheena biladhel.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Apr 2011 18:31

it cannot be stopped. could we stop far more damaging things like babur and shaheen or the nukes themself ?

only way to stop china is to inflict pain in some form. talking is useless.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Apr 2011 20:06

given the low speed characteristics of UAV's, it makes it hard for jets to slow down and catch them with guns or get missile lock(?). it might be that the new primary trainer fitted with 7.62mm machine guns will be the best aircraft to chase and shoot down low/slow birds

helis, especially Mi28's could probably do it, but may not have the loiter or speed profile required

detect on aerostat/awacs, scramble a turboprop or fly UAV CAP's and get vectored in on the tail and bring down with some old fashioned gunnery

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 Apr 2011 20:10

Didnt the Pakis shoot down one of our (Isreali made) UAVs with their F16s? So what cant we do the same?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Apr 2011 20:17

One issue is that the services order NAG in miniscule qtys, so to get the unit costs down becomes hard. They are eager to buy large numbers of imported stuff but always give trickle qtys for local stuff.

Maybe once they see the LCH become inducted they might order more of the HELINA. Why cant they seek the triple launcher for other helis in service already? Maybe integration issues?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Apr 2011 20:18

saip wrote:Didnt the Pakis shoot down one of our (Isreali made) UAVs with their F16s? So what cant we do the same?

Well we don't have any F-16s so we can't do the same.

jai · Post by **jai** » 04 Apr 2011 20:49

Singha wrote:indeed. thanks for cueing us on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cYCBlcN ... re=related

we can expect china to have this into squadron service in say 5 years and pakis in around 8.

time to pull up panties on Rustom and Helina, fund it appropriately and built something appropriate for reaper role too, not just surveillance...even if it means not 101% desi but 30% israeli.

Hmm, what's with the cheenee obsession for creating clones of other countries defence products..makes me wonder if its a deliberate ploy to confuse their enemies during war time as to who may be targetting them or to make the equipment look as dangerous as the original whilst it may not be half as good....

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Apr 2011 08:40

Can someone translate this article?

http://vpk-news.ru/articles/7319

and this:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/7387

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 05 Apr 2011 10:03

I expect the Pakis to get this sooner.

The Pakis are very clear that they need AR drones to deal with what they think is cold start.

Jets have a problem with slow moving planes when they aren't that maneuverable themselves and try to get a lock on with a gun. that's what happened to the the Lankan Mig-27s trying to shoot down those zlins.

But a wankel powered UAV is no match for a Mig-29 with IRST and or look down shoot down radar. remember the russian shoot down of the georgian UAV?

in any case with thrust vectoring on the sukhois , stall is not such a big issue.