Pakistanis must ask a central
question: were we really tolerant people before Zia’s Islamisation or we were only naively indolent, prone to be violent at any moment?
we should not forget that Islamisation was initiated by Zulfikar Ali Bhutto who himself was a staunch secular person. His embracing of Islamisation shows that the socio-economic conditions were too powerful to be resisted even by him.
US to continue drone attacks despite ISI protest: reportUnknown miscreants on Wednesday blew up a gas pipeline with explosive material at Sui on Wednesday.
According to the Levis authorities, unknown miscreants have blown up a gas pipeline of about 8-inch diameter that goes from Sui to Loti.
The gas supply of the areas that lie within the range of Sui to Loti suspended soon after the incident.
The related authorities have started renovating the busted gas pipeline.
Panetta and Pasha met at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, for two hours and 25 minutes, after which Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen joined them for lunch in an adjacent dining room, the report said.
As per the report, some US officials believe that within Pakistan, the ISI is hyping the rift in order to score political points.
These officials say a recent story suggesting that cooperation between the agencies has stopped was "overwritten" and a leak designed to convince an increasingly anti-American Pakistani public that the ISI was showing the CIA who's boss, it said.
Sources say Pasha did not "scold" the US, as some have depicted it, though he did elaborate on how the CIA officer Raymond Davis case has become such a hot button issue in Pakistan - something the US already knew - the news channel said.
Pakistani officials believe the case increased public anger at the US, which reduces the ISI's ability to work with the CIA, it added.
But aren't the momins children of the purest of the purest ?? Such kaffir ideology cant be acceptable to them.SSridhar wrote:Were we really tolerant before the jihadis ?
It can be argued that from the second to third centuries, the way the Gupta dynasty established self-sufficient but desolate and isolated village communities contributed to the religious violence of 1947, and even presently.
Pakistan is short of $600 million needed to help millions of families
This claim goes down well with the recent news that Pakistan Defence Budget Increases By 18 Percent. Lets see, 18% of $5.2 Billion = $1.0 Billion. Found the money that the donors did not cough up!!More than $600 million is still to come from donors
As a follow up to the talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani, India has decided, in principle, to resume bilateral cricket ties with Pakistan. Government sources said the time of the visit, the venues of the matches and other logistical issues would be decided by the cricket boards of the two countries.
Actually they're already in the list - the "Asian Tigers" were the ridiculous cover name used by a faction of the Lashkar-e-Janghvi that had retreated to the Tribal Areas.Mihaylo wrote:Chinmayanand wrote:
And the teams particpitaing in that league will be :
Lashar-e-Tayabba , Lashkar-e-Jhangvi , Hizbul Mujahideen , Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan , Jaish-e-Mohammad , Al Qaeda ,Jamat -ud-Dawa , Harkat-ul-Ansar ,Sipah-e-Sahaba , AL Badr , Jamait-ul-Mujahideen , harkat-ul-Jehad-al-Islami , Muttahida Jehad Council ,Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen , Muslim Janbaaz Force , Al Umar Mujahideen , Islami Jamaat-e-Tulba, Tehrik-e-Jehad-e-Islami ,Tehrik-e-Jehad , Islami Inquilabi Mahaz .
Pick your favourites.
Hai !!! how could you forget the new comers and possibly the favorites - The Asian Tigers !!
I thought Arnab Goswami did an excellent job on this one. K. C. Singh, the diplomat that he, had to spin what Fair was saying. But Arnab cut through the chase and basically bludgeoned Fair by pointing out that her gobly gook is tantamount to saying that US strategic interests trump TSP terror against India, and India just has to shut up and put up with it. And I liked the way he characterized 26/11 as one of the most barbaric, state-sponsored terrorist acts in history.SSridhar wrote:I liked the incensed reaction of Ms. Christine Fair on the Times Now channel last night. Forget about whether the interviewer was suave or not etc. Ms. Fair made it absolutely and unambiguously clear to all of us that the American interests need Pakistan and take priority over anything else. She is right and the American stand is perfectly understandable.
How often does the LeT direct operations against the PA/ISI?ramana wrote:How much more sharing and caring they want?
To me
ISI:LET = CIA :ISI
If this were a novel I was holding in my hand - I would turn to the last page and see if the teams play each other and if they did I would throw away the book in disgust. The suspense will now kill me because the government has handed the ball to the cricket board. If the cricket board decides to play I think we need to start a campaign opposing it.jrjrao wrote:Ack thoo on those who feel that it is our compulsion to make pappi-jhappi with the Pakis.
India to resume bilateral cricketing ties with PakistanAs a follow up to the talks between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani, India has decided, in principle, to resume bilateral cricket ties with Pakistan. Government sources said the time of the visit, the venues of the matches and other logistical issues would be decided by the cricket boards of the two countries.
Is the video available online?SSridhar wrote:I liked the incensed reaction of Ms. Christine Fair on the Times Now channel last night. Forget about whether the interviewer was suave or not etc. Ms. Fair made it absolutely and unambiguously clear to all of us that the American interests need Pakistan and take priority over anything else. She is right and the American stand is perfectly understandable.
SSridhar wrote:Were we really tolerant before the jihadis ?
It can be argued that from the second to third centuries, the way the Gupta dynasty established self-sufficient but desolate and isolated village communities contributed to the religious violence of 1947, and even presently.
I agree. Since 6th century when Md Bin Qasim entered the lands pakis have always seen a visitor in plains of Pakjab every so often. I mean every paki claims varying geneology with changing time while it was CAsian then Persian and now Arap genes how is that possible in an insular village? unless invaders knew a way to pass their dna via telepathy. Utter rubbish article.Rajdeep wrote:But aren't the momins children of the purest of the purest ?? Such kaffir ideology cant be acceptable to them.
PS - Does this mean the poaks will accept their non muslim ancestry when it suits them onlee ? Well we all know the answer to that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ksOi5rRnoA_Gupta wrote:Is the video available online?SSridhar wrote:I liked the incensed reaction of Ms. Christine Fair on the Times Now channel last night. Forget about whether the interviewer was suave or not etc. Ms. Fair made it absolutely and unambiguously clear to all of us that the American interests need Pakistan and take priority over anything else. She is right and the American stand is perfectly understandable.
The foreign minister (Krishna) said India would take up Rana's statements with the Pakistani government. "There are no contradictions in that position," he said when asked whether the revelations made by Rana would have an impact on India-Pakistan peace talks. "I have said that both these things will have to go on... Just look at the Sharm el-Shaikh declaration," he said.
The situation has changed dramatically since Prime Minister Manmohan Singh agreed to resume the bilateral dialogue at Thimphu, de-linking the process with India's grievance against Pakistan's unhelpful attitude over 26/11.
Nothing illustrated the shift in government's stand better than Krishna's invoking the Sharm el-Sheikh statement.
Manny wrote:It looks silly to blame the US govt for being cozy with Pakistan when the congressi left of India wants to be cozy with Pakistan. Look at the recent cricket games they want India to go play in Pakistan.
Thats the only way to treat these cretins - ridicule them and treat them as objects of humour.
He was going on about Hyper ventilating.. Or maybe he didn't hear her well?“Pakistan strongly condemns the drone attack,” according to a statement from the Foreign Ministry in Islamabad, which said it had lodged “a strong protest” with the United States ambassador there, Cameron P. Munter. “We have repeatedly said that such attacks are counterproductive and only contribute to strengthen the hands of the terrorists.”
The drone attack was widely interpreted by Pakistan’s main spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, as a deliberate effort by Washington to embarrass the country. “If the message was that business will continue as usual, it was a crude way of sending it,” a senior Pakistani intelligence official said.
But an American official familiar with the operations defended the timing and targets, which came after a 27-day gap since the last strike on March 17, the day after Mr. Davis was released from Pakistani custody. “These operations are consistent with the U.S.-Pakistan agreements that have been in place for some time,” said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the political delicacy of the drone program. “This was about protecting Americans in the region. This is not about sending a signal to Pakistan.”
The targets of the attack were militants commanded by Maulvi Nazir, a Taliban leader from South Waziristan who is closely allied to the Haqqani network, the main Afghan Taliban group supported by the Pakistani military. The drones struck a double-cabin pickup truck and a motorcycle as they returned from Afghanistan into Pakistan, a Pakistani military official said. Seven fighters were killed and six others were wounded in the attack just south of the village of Angor Adda on the border between the two countries. The leadership of the Pakistani military knew that the drones could not be stopped by force, said Talat Masood, a retired lieutenant general and military analyst in Islamabad. “The army knows it can’t stop completely the main counterterrorism tool of the United States,” he said.
In an additional irritant to relations between the United States and Pakistan, a federal court released statements on Tuesday by a Pakistani-American man named David Headley in which he says that he helped Lashkar-e-Taiba plot the 2008 terrorist attacks on Mumbai with the support of top ISI officials. Mr. Headley’s role in the Mumbai attacks has not only been a source of tension between Pakistan and the United States, but has ignited outrage in India, where critics accuse the United States of allying itself with a government that they say knowingly colludes with terrorists.
Shuja Nawaz:Can -- or will -- the U.S. abide by Pakistan's demand that the C.I.A. curtail its activities? Could this be a serious blow to American efforts to control its enemies in the region?
C. Christine Fair:The United States needs to stop paying the Pakistan army with coalition support funds to fight in the border region and instead provide it adequate military aid in kind, as part of a carefully structured cooperative program to build its mobility and firepower against the militants.
Money cannot buy love. It is more likely to generate contempt among the rank and file of the Pakistani military. If the ultimate objective is to stabilize Afghanistan and Pakistan, then economic and peaceful political means, and talks with the militants to bring them into the fold of normal political discourse, are also needed. Not drone attacks. Nor trigger-happy cowboys in the heartland of Pakistan.
Bruce Riedel:No doubt the Pakistani intelligence agency, the ISI, has concluded that the United States needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs the United States and thus is loath to cut off security or economic assistance. No doubt the ISI reckons that the C.I.A. will grudgingly accept these limitations while seeking to develop alternatives, however constrained. No doubt, the ISI is confident it will win this game of chicken. Pakistan’s spooks may well be right.
Mark Quarterman:The army leadership, including Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, the director general of Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, want a return to what they remember as "Reagan rules.”.... The problem today is we can’t go back to this rosy world. The Pakistani army and the ISI cannot be relied on to fight the jihadi Frankenstein they have built over the last three decades.
Cyril Almeida:What is clear is that the U.S. and Pakistan are unable any longer to paper over their differences publicly. The conflict among these uneasy allies is there for all to see.....But we should remember that there is a difficult history between the two countries that stretches back to a cold war alliance in which Pakistan was in the U.S. camp, while its rival India was in the Soviet camp. Pakistan was a significant conduit for U.S. aid to the Afghan mujahidin in their battle with the Soviet invaders. Many Pakistanis still point to a sense of abandonment by the U.S. in the aftermath of the Soviet withdrawal.
Reza Nasim Jan:The oldest of frenemies, the C.I.A. and I.S.I., have kissed and made up again. Or so it seems.
Lt. Gen. Pasha went to Washington and a day later the C.I.A.-run drone strikes program in Pakistan resumed. But wait, according to carefully timed media leaks, wasn’t the Pakistan Army opposed to drone strikes? It’s all terribly confusing.
The army also apparently wants hundreds — or is it dozens — of C.I.A. operatives, Special Forces troops and security contractors to leave Pakistan. But how did they get into Pakistan in the first place?
Pakistan’s leaders seem to think they have the advantage and are therefore making extravagant demands, no doubt partly for public consumption. Although the U.S. can push back against Pakistani demands, even cut off aid to the country, which would be devastating to Pakistan, America's interests in the region would be ill-served by such overt hostility. The end result is likely to reflect the fact that neither side possesses a viable alternative to begrudging cooperation.
BTW: Has CRamS told us how India agreeing to play cricket with TSP is all America's fault?New C.I.A. Drone Attack Draws Rebuke From Pakistan
By ERIC SCHMITT
WASHINGTON — C.I.A. drones fired two missiles at militants in Pakistan’s tribal areas on Wednesday, two days after Pakistan’s spy chief threatened to curtail the drone strikes and demanded more information about the Central Intelligence Agency’s operations there.
The strikes drew a sharp rebuke from a Pakistani government that is increasingly public in its criticism of the C.I.A.’s covert role in its country.
“Pakistan strongly condemns the drone attack,” according to a statement from the Foreign Ministry in Islamabad, which said it had lodged “a strong protest” with the United States ambassador there, Cameron P. Munter. “We have repeatedly said that such attacks are counterproductive and only contribute to strengthen the hands of the terrorists.”
he drone attack was widely interpreted by Pakistan’s main spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, as a deliberate effort by Washington to embarrass the country. “If the message was that business will continue as usual, it was a crude way of sending it,” a senior Pakistani intelligence official said.
shiv, this is a Chanakyan move. GoI wants to win the hearts & minds of the Pakistani people by agreeing to resume cricketing ties. This way, it hopes to silently engineer the Pakistani society in our favour. We have tried the political class with utter failure for 64 years. We know the Pakistani Army is implacably inimical to us. So, now the Pakistani society. If we can secretly arrange for Indian defeat as well, nothing like that. In fact, GoI should force BCCI to undertake a tour of Pakistan, thus making India a true friend which can brave the Taliban, Pakiban and any other ban and bring Pakistan out of isolation. We are certain to become taller than the tallest friend after that. Remember that we threw a lifeline to Musharraf by inviting him to Agra as the Head of State and gave him legitimacy ? Wasn't he very grateful to us after that ? There are many instances when we have done so. But, at a societal level, this is the first attempt. Our 'saas-bahu' serials and Bollywood movies have softened Pakistanis enough to be receptive now for the strike with the sledge hammer. As SM Krishna has rightly said, terrorism and peace talks (a part of which is resuming sports ties) are two different sets of activities which can go on in parallel. This means two things to me. One, Pakistan is given a green signal by India to continue with its terrorism as we have a capacity to absorb. Two, from now on, the peace talks shall be comprehensive, uninterrupted and uninterruptible as many sane and wise Indians have demanded. Jai Ho.shiv wrote:The suspense will now kill me because the government has handed the ball to the cricket board. If the cricket board decides to play I think we need to start a campaign opposing it.
Pakistani will make a lot of money and get great publicity from this. We really must not do this.
One effective way I resolved it was show photos of kids killed in Akshardham and 26/11 and also of people in pools of blood, no less to a baki and asked - does she support such killings? Of course for bakiturds it will all end up in Kaaashmeer, but that is a different discussion.Manny wrote:In another forum, I got into a debate/argument with a desi leftie about how she was glad that the cricket diplomacy was working and she went on about that desi cricketer (I forget his name) who wanted to dedicate the World Cup to the 26/11 victim and how that was uncalled for and how decent Afridi was and what not.
It is simple, it happens to somebody other, some poor slob (the 3rd Indian) who the DIE/RNI hates anyway (unclean, does not have use the deoderant, dhotivala, lall bus wala, leaves in huts and slums, does not speak English etc).I cannot understand the stupidity and the dumbasseness of certain lefties of India. It just boggles my mind. I get more angry with such Indians than even with AQ or LeT.
http://nwotruth.com/experts-doubt-al-qa ... i-attacks/Christine Fair, senior political scientist and a South Asia expert at the RAND Corporation, was careful to say that the identity of the terrorists could not yet be known. But she insisted the style of the attacks and the targets in Mumbai suggested that the militants were likely to be Indian Muslims – and not linked to Al Qaeda or the violent South Asian terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba.
“There’s absolutely nothing Al Qaeda-like about it,” she said of the attack. “Did you see any suicide bombers? And there are no fingerprints of Lashkar. They don’t do hostage taking, and they don’t do grenades.”
Sorry, but some fother-muckers are beyond repair.The decision was announced by foreign minister S M Krishna here on Wednesday, strengthening the growing estimate, including in the country's security establishment, that Pakistan may have been fully reprieved over 26/11.
Krishna said India would take up Rana's statements with Islamabad.
These idiots in Dilli need to learn some lesson from Lockerbie.Yo Sir Ghazni! please do listen -- our destiny and your density (of loot) are joined together, and we cannot live without one another. So, we really need to delink, permanently, our peace Pappi-Jhappi from the unfortunate issue of Somnath. Can we please continue to lick some more??
From the above,Sushupti wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/t ... d-pakistan
Fox News. " The magic word is India "
Slowly, the Americans are blurting out the truth. Just yesterday, Ms. Christine Fair said they would not do anything to Pakistan because their interests would be affected then. Now, another one is saying that Pakistan is an Indian problem and they could play the India card with Pakistan.CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: This is an Indian problem. We'll turn it over to India
Excellent catch, Raja Bose.Raja Bose wrote:Motorhama Christine Fair, PhD. spoke just after the 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attacks