Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 2010)

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SwamyG
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SwamyG »

^^^^
Because those two are the fastest growing countries that Australia and others are concerned. It also points out that they need both these countries.

I will take the portrayal positively; if people continue to sit back and take notice of desh it gives me immense happiness.

Being uber-sensitive can be injurious to health :-)
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

SwamyG wrote:
I will take the portrayal positively; if people continue to sit back and take notice of desh it gives me immense happiness.
If it was only Indian that is a good thing. India has a history of its own and its own method.
Why bring in other country.
SwamyG
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SwamyG »

The article is written from an Australian perspective. The author is wondering about the obsession of Australian media with American Finance sector, considering the fact that Australia has been doing more business with Asia. He points out that the trade with India is more than the entire European Union, and how China is an important player which can not be ignored. Currently, China means more to them than India.

So that is the context of the article - Australian in nature. And the author lists two important countries in Asia - China and India. He was not writing "Ode to India" poem.

Even otherwise, it is a tough world out there, people are going to compare apples and oranges. If India wants to be in the big league, it better learn to deal with nastiness and unfairness. Comparisons are but natural.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Ameet »

America's lost decade

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/ ... ecade.html

There are currently 130.738 million payroll jobs in the U.S. (as of March 2011). There were 130.781 million payroll jobs in January 2000. So that is over eleven years with no increase in total payroll jobs.

And the median household income in constant dollars was $49,777 in 2009. That is barely above the $49,309 in 1997, and below the $51,100 in 1998. (Census data here in Excel).

Just a reminder that many Americans have been struggling for a decade or more. The aughts were a lost decade for most Americans.

There are currently 7.25 million fewer payroll jobs than before the recession started in 2007, with 13.5 million Americans currently unemployed. Another 8.4 million are working part time for economic reasons, and about 4 million more workers have left the labor force. Of those unemployed, 6.1 million have been unemployed for six months or more.
Hari Seldon
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

S&P, the mouse that roared, now claims it's putting the (al)mighty USofA on negative outlook watch or whatever BS lingo the going-rate agencies communicate in.

Turns out it's likely another admin gimmick to light some fire under the rears of congress to get them to agree on some, any budget dammit.

Meanwhile, things finally start to get better on the deficit front as the path to parosperity becomes tangible and reachable for the flexible, crafty, smart-working anglo-saxone world, as evidenced in the graph below:
Image

No, don;t get me wrong, I mean that seriously. The unglo-saxons are at least taking the currency debasement game seriously unlike the pther OECD highbrows out there.! That way, they'll ensure minimal disruption (relatively speaking, of course) to their populations as the world khanomy recasts itself slowly but surely only. Jai ho.

More:
Image

There is irrefutable logic in being the kingly one-eyed among the blind. Witness the outpouring of support n loyalty here:
Japan, meanwhile, expressed confidence in U.S. government debt. "We continue to believe that U.S. Treasurys are an attractive product for us," said Finance Minister Yoshihiko Noda.

Yawn.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by satya »

Does it really matter if there's a downgrade of US or EU debt? Look at FX mkt , Euro getting stronger when already Greek CDS already above the hole in roof why cuz of TINA even if next week it come down kitna aayega 2 week ki breaking news fir sab normal people will say food digested ground reality next london session a breaking news with some ''respected analyst'' farting out & bang euro back in same price band badla kya badla yeh ki some one got a gud nite sleep with xxx million $ ya euro ki painting in his bedroom and next morning scratched his head and get on . Euro -USD-JPY-GBP one n same thing . Things will change only when there will be a real alternative from a non-white country till then its all same . Gold price high let it go above 5000 or 10000$ then too no diff. same whining with a new book titled 'gold the ultimate old age pension fund" and some new etf this time for gold price binary option ! but do chk in wht time frame is delivery of 1 Mt of physical gold in today's mkt if at all & tht brings back every one crawling back to unkil or aunty or euro wali unkil-aunty combo confused looking tri or tru or trou named banker grinning and enjoying his home grown vintage . Truth is gora's financial system here to stay and to break this false hope of US down today EU breaking tomorrow need a complete new system from ground zero since tht's not gonna happen any time soon let's enjoy all this whine . Tht not gonna happen do wht Panda doing squeeze whtever juice u can within limit and occasional blog announcement of danw of Chinese kingdom with gen 66666 fighter and go back to sleep .
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^^^satya vachan.

Above realization dawned on moi in slow motion a while back only. Hence the oversized yaaawwwwns only. Ensoi maadi. LOL..

While forex mkt should've tanked on such a going-rate agency announcement, it perked up instead in the khanate only. Jai ho and all that, of course. And no, no viable non-gora alternative can ever be allowed to emerge only. Too many planets have to align for anything like that happening. And too many forces actively seeking out and squelching any bud of hope reeaallly early only.

In many ways, am relieved too. The disruption entailed by a breakdown of current system when no alternative's ready is way too scary in the practical world of work, jobs, family and living. So, good if the current system can stretch on forever. IMVHO, of course.

Let the games continue.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by devesh »

^^^
another interesting aspect in Uncle land is the complete insulation of the general public from reality. it is as if people don't realize what's happening. there used to token outrage before when oil price went up too much. now, even that's not there. it's like nobody care anymore. or just a general feeling of apathy. this is disturbing. the voting people of the most dangerous country on earth are generally apathetic to the doings and machinations of their leadership and economic elite. they don't even question it. they don't even understand that FED printing money is directly related to skyrocketing oil prices not just in USD but in all other currencies b/c Oil is tied to USD. same with all other commodities. this is just one example. there is a complete disconnect with reality. the public seems to be content enough to go back to status quo of debt binging.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

The economissed rag latches onto the obvious, finally, only. And yet foists a question mark there too...

Higher education: Is it really the next bubble?

See what I mean. I mean, why's the obvious even a Question, eh?
Education is a bubble in a classic sense. To call something a bubble, it must be overpriced and there must be an intense belief in it. Housing was a classic bubble, as were tech stocks in the ’90s, because they were both very overvalued, but there was an incredibly widespread belief that almost could not be questioned — you had to own a house in 2005, and you had to be in an equity-market index fund in 1999.

Probably the only candidate left for a bubble — at least in the developed world (maybe emerging markets are a bubble 8) ) — is education. It’s basically extremely overpriced. People are not getting their money’s worth, objectively, when you do the math. And at the same time it is something that is incredibly intensively believed; there’s this sort of psycho-social component to people taking on these enormous debts when they go to college simply because that’s what everybody’s doing.

It is, to my mind, in some ways worse than the housing bubble. There are a few things that make it worse. One is that when people make a mistake in taking on an education loan, they’re legally much more difficult to get out of than housing loans. With housing, typically they’re non-recourse — you can just walk out of the house. With education, they’re recourse, and they typically survive bankruptcy. If you borrowed money and went to a college where the education didn’t create any value, that is potentially a really big mistake.
Oh, it won't be pretty. But so effing what. Not everything need be pretty anyway. The TFTA khanomies will survive and thrive, so what if a few of their tfta aam aadmis get skrewed in the process.

But of course, there are 'em "nuances". There's professional dissent. An for balance sakes, they got a point too.
The problem is that there are no other routes to better occupations and higher salaries anymore, except for those who have odd skills (athletes, rock stars, starlets willing to reveal all) - which most of us don't have. Education has not stopped delivering its expected returns, not in terms of income or (un)employment. It has stopped delivering on the promise of a middle-class job = professions and managerial occupations, for which a BA was sufficient inthe 60s, and for which an MA is now necessary. So this leads to education inflation = middle-class kids seeking MA degrees and professional degrees, where a BA might have sufficed a generation ago. I don't see any decline in the willingness of parents to sacrifice for their kids.
Hmmm, eh?
Now, it may be that higher education has become too expensive for some people - working-class/moderate income - and they will not be able to afford it. Many of these potential students now go to community colleges, but they may be squeezed out when regional universities cut back on their slots, and community colleges can't expand to accept more students. But this is a problem of undercapacity, not overcapacity.

It may be that fly-by-night privates have over-expanded - the U of Phoenixes of the world - but it would be a good thing to get rid of them. In California ... everyone is worried about how to accommodate all those who want/need higher ed, and I haven't heard any fears of over-capacity. Look at the Pubic Policy Institute of CA - they have been screaming about under-capacity for a long time. So the over-capacity argument in general is absurd, though it might apply to specific niches.
Interesting. No scope of a deflationary bubble burst in an undercapacity world. None, nada.

Hmmm. Good points otherwise. What has me convinced is the following argument, though:
First, the dollars in question are actually relatively small. The Project on Student Debt reports that nationally, the average debt for those graduating seniors who have taken out loans was $23,200 in 2008. The payment for loans of that size is typically a couple hundred bucks a month, or about what recent grads will be spending monthly on cable and cell service. That's up, at a pace of about 6 percent a year, from $18,650 in 2004.

And about one-third of students graduate with no loans at all; they're not included in these debt figures.Second, while the national media tend to focus on the eye-popping tuitions of places like Harvard and Stanford, the vast majority of our nation's students attend institutions that cost a relative pittance. In 2010, the College Board reported that annual tuition and fees averaged $2,713 at two-year colleges, $7,605 at public four-year colleges for in-state students and $11,990 at public four-year schools for out-of-state students. It is the cushy private four-years, with average tuition and fees of $27,293, that make college seem so expensive.
OK. I'll kinda buy that. Let's see how things pan out. I'd rather there be no more bubble bursts and all that. Enough disruption in mango lives already, I reckon, even for the TFTA developed world.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

devesh wrote:^^^
another interesting aspect in Uncle land is the complete insulation of the general public from reality. it is as if people don't realize what's happening. there used to token outrage before when oil price went up too much. now, even that's not there. it's like nobody care anymore. or just a general feeling of apathy. this is disturbing. the voting people of the most dangerous country on earth are generally apathetic to the doings and machinations of their leadership and economic elite. they don't even question it. they don't even understand that FED printing money is directly related to skyrocketing oil prices not just in USD but in all other currencies b/c Oil is tied to USD. same with all other commodities. this is just one example. there is a complete disconnect with reality. the public seems to be content enough to go back to status quo of debt binging.
The new thing is call 'gamification' of the population. This is recent and they are still studying it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZGCPap7GkY

The other thing is called 'checkenification' of the population.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Christopher Sidor »

Ameet wrote:America's lost decade

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/ ... ecade.html

There are currently 130.738 million payroll jobs in the U.S. (as of March 2011). There were 130.781 million payroll jobs in January 2000. So that is over eleven years with no increase in total payroll jobs.

And the median household income in constant dollars was $49,777 in 2009. That is barely above the $49,309 in 1997, and below the $51,100 in 1998. (Census data here in Excel).

Just a reminder that many Americans have been struggling for a decade or more. The aughts were a lost decade for most Americans.

There are currently 7.25 million fewer payroll jobs than before the recession started in 2007, with 13.5 million Americans currently unemployed. Another 8.4 million are working part time for economic reasons, and about 4 million more workers have left the labor force. Of those unemployed, 6.1 million have been unemployed for six months or more.
The first decade of the 21st century was truly a lost decade as far as America was concerned.

But there is one other fact which people have not put a finger on. The first decade of 21st century was also a decade which did not see any new technological development. If 1980s was the decade of the semi-conductor/silicon and 1990s was the decade of software, america failed to develop anything significant in 2000-2009. Maybe in the coming decade, i.e. 2010-2019, we will see growth in green-tech. But if the current decade is anything like its predecessor, we can expect america to loose its technological leadership mantle.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by devesh »

^^^
christopher bhai, be careful. the same discussion took place before and, well, let's just say that people didn't like it. that is a very valid point. going back to the entire 20th century, a decade by decade history of US shows that there is a strong correlation between breakthrough inventions and economic reality. which causes which is still to be debated. but the correlation is there.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by svinayak »

The US Dollar broke to a new low in the overnight futures session. It's not surprising as China announced over the weekend that it expects to trim its US Dollar exposure by 2/3.

Yes, China has finally had enough of the US and its Federal Reserve. All of us were wondering at what point this would happen: China would only remain heavily invested in an asset that is rapidly losing value for so long.

Well, now it's happened.

Last week, several high-ranking Government officials in China announced that the country needs to diversify away from the Dollar... lowering the country's exposure to Dollar related assets to $1 trillion (1/3 of its current levels).

Soon after this, the US Dollar definitively took out its 2009 low. This only leaves the 2008 low for major support. Gold and Silver have both exploded higher on the news. Gold cleared $1,520 per ounce while Silver cleared $50 per ounce.

In simple terms, the world is now moving away from the US Dollar in a rapid pace. Russia and China are no longer using the US Dollar for trade between each other. Saudi Arabia is sending representatives to China and Russia to strengthen trade ties (which hints that oil may not be priced in Dollars in the coming years). And the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and now South Africa) recently staged a conference in southern China to discuss trading in their domestic currencies rather than the US Dollar.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SwamyG »

devesh: I repeat a joke, once again on BRF, that I heard on the radio. What is the difference between USSR and USA citizens? The USA citizens do not know their government is brain-washing them. And lying to them.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by abhischekcc »

The fall in the USD value will eventually be beneficial to the US economy, as it will gift it competitiveness for nothing. The Chinese are simply shooting themselves in the foot by moving away from the dollar. Not that I blame them, they do not have any other choice. Which makes me wonder, was the point of the whole QE strategy only to weaken the dollar?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Sri »

Sri
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Sri »

Image
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Suraj »

For those with their noses closer to the ground, what's you're take on the potential for QE3 ? With QE2 winding down by June, the markets are headed for the toilet if there's no QE3.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ShyamSP »

Suraj wrote:For those with their noses closer to the ground, what's you're take on the potential for QE3 ? With QE2 winding down by June, the markets are headed for the toilet if there's no QE3.
Sudden spike in oil, silver, etc since last month signaled QE continuation - call it QE2.lite (instead of saying QE3). General correction is due to flush out oil and metal speculators for timebeing.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SwamyG »

Suraj wrote:For those with their noses closer to the ground, what's you're take on the potential for QE3 ? With QE2 winding down by June, the markets are headed for the toilet if there's no QE3.
It all boils down to 2012 elections. What will be done is what the politicians need - a perception that things are getting better in USA.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by devesh »

Suraj ji,

I don't claim to be knowledgeable in "inside" information. but the behavior of the FED, to me at least, indicates that there is no such thing as QE 1, 2, 3, etc. it's all a continuous QE agenda. the division into 1, 2, and 3 is simply a ploy to keep up the illusion that US is only doing it as and when required. that's just the illusion. the reality is, this will continue till debt levels in US return to normalcy, which will take years, especially b/c debt write offs are NOT BEING ALLOWED to take place. that's the "nightmare" that FED is trying to prevent. they will go to any lengths to prevent a major banking restructuring.

on a more psychological level, it seems to me that the political elite does not want to handle it. they just don't want to deal with the mess. they rely on the FED to do the dirty job, no matter what comes. political decadence explains very well the "feet dragging" that's been taking place. i'm sure there is a vast field for psychologists and politico-social theorists to explore here.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by abhishek_sharma »

What’s Left of the Left: Paul Krugman’s lonely crusade.

http://nymag.com/news/politics/paul-krugman-2011-5/
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ramana »

Devesh, What is b/c debt? Please dont use non standard abbreviations for the sake of all others.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ShyamSP »

ramana wrote:Devesh, What is b/c debt? Please dont use non standard abbreviations for the sake of all others.
b/c = because

I think it was standard abbreviation before becoming non-standard
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by VikramS »

Get ready for some fireworks in the markets tomorrow. Ben will give his first press conference in which he will take unscripted questions. Expect a lot of volatility in the markets. The market seems to be pricing in nothing hawkish coming from the Fed.

BTW a stealth QE3 has already started. The Fed is reinvesting whatever is being paid off on the MBS bonds. Tomorrow might be a good time to buy some gold/silver assuming there is some selloff.

And yes abhcc: A primary goal of QE is to force emerging countries to revalue their currencies by forcing inflation. The major OECD countries are anyway deep into their own version of QE. The target right now is the emerging countries since they are a lot more sensitive to inflation than the West.

Frankly I do not blame the Fed. The US has bled jobs like a sieve and it needs a much cheaper dollar to get at least some jobs back. We still have a few years of turmoil ahead of us till a new level of equilibrium is found. In a lot of ways 9/11 did affect the US in ways one could hardly imagine then.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SwamyG »

VikramS: Can you elaborate on the 9/11 part? I think the bank's behavior, Y2k/Internet bubble, real estate bubble, government spending, personal spending, consumerism, 'corporate powers' ityadi have been going on for years now. So what did 9/11 contribute to the mix?
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

UK has third biggest budget deficit in Europe (telegraf)

The 3rd largest deficit? really? So effing what?

if anything shows how comprehensively the single currency sans a debt union has destroyed the ability of the PIIGS to ever recover, this is it...
Britain’s shortfall in its finances amounted to 10.4pc of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2010, according to data for each of the EU’s 27 member states from the statistics agency Eurostat.

That meant the UK had a bigger deficit, or annual shortfall, than the recently bailed-out Portugal and also Spain, which is viewed as the next euro-using nation to potentially need international aid.

The largest deficit in proportion to the size of the country’s economy was seen in Ireland, where the extra borrowing needed to shore up the banks left its deficit at 32.4pc of GDP.

Greece, which received a €110bn bail-out last year, was second with a deficit of 10.5pc, followed by the UK. Spain, at 9.2pc, and Portugal, at 9.1pc, were in fourth and fifth place.

The data showed the Greek finances were in an even poorer state than previously thought, as the latest figure – while trimmed from the previous year’s 15.4pc – was higher than the latest 9.6pc estimate from the European Union and the International Monetary Fund.
Well, that flow. What about stock, you ask?
In terms of total debt, the UK fared much better, although it was still among the 14 EU member states burdened with a debt higher than 60pc of GDP last year. EU member states are supposed to keep their debt under the 60pc level.

The debt figures, which refer to a government’s total borrowing over time, rather than the latest yearly shortfall, showed Greece was again in the worst position with a debt equivalent to 142.8pc of its GDP, followed by Italy at 119pc and Belgium at 96.8pc.

The UK was in the ninth weakest position with a debt standing at 80pc of GDP, which was worse than Spain’s 60.1pc. The average debt across the 16 members that use the euro hit a record 85.1pc, up from 79.3pc the previous year.
Thr problem though, with running 10%+ deficits y-o-y is that you'll cross the 100% debt-to-GDP level mighty fast given that the deficits are either monetized or covered for with market borrowings.

Anyway, like others have mentioned in this dhaga, yes, the explicit aim of the TFTA anglo saxons is to drive down their currency values (esp so since Geithner just went on record denying this) and leave 'em Asian central banks holding the can. Yay! And truth be told, I can't see how the TFTA can fail in this noble endeavor.Jai ho and all that, of course.
Given the fiscal mess in the UK, one might expect the British Pound to be among the weaker currencies in relation to the US dollar. Indeed, note that the British pound is 22% down from its 2008 peak vs. the US dollar in spite of retrace of a portion of its loss, and in spite of US dollar weakness against nearly everything else.
Now, wouldn't that mean hard assets in the TFTA world become cheaper for us SDREs to make a grab for? But notice how the glass walls prevent asset transfers in selective cases.... Unocal or DPW anybody? What if, say, the Tatas wanted to buy Rolls-Royce tomorrow? Good aircraft engine tech, I hear...
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by devesh »

b/c means because. been using that abbreviation forever.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ldev »

What the various Fed programs (including QE, the Term Auction Lending Facility, the Commercial Paper Funding Facility, the Primary Dealer Credit Facility etc.) have done is enabled the primary accessors of credit to direct that firepower in a targeted manner...hence the appreciation in selected markets i.e. global commodities, selected equity markets, precious metals etc. Consumer credit dependent assets have depreciated especially in the US in the absence of this fresh funding being made available to consumers. However to the extent that QE substitutes USTs for USDs, it is nothing more than an asset swap in the marketplace, and is allright for the purpose of seconary credit creation because USTs are just as efficient as USDs via the Repo market. The impact on other countries who are the recipients of this wave of liquidity has been inflationary both via input costs as well as money supply creation and is being fought via interest rate hikes, currency appreciation or both. QE's most important impact and probable primary objective at this point in time is to influence the yield curve to allow servicing of interest costs on the mountains of debt in all sectors... and oh, I almost forgot, most important.... to allow banks to make outsize profits via zero/close to zero cost funding to clear some of the crap from their sickly balance sheets.
Last edited by ldev on 27 Apr 2011 09:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by vera_k »

What's with the move to increase lending standards for home loans? Seems like they want some deflation in that asset class, but want to inflate a bubble in commodities and equities.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ldev »

vera_k wrote:What's with the move to increase lending standards for home loans? Seems like they want some deflation in that asset class, but want to inflate a bubble in commodities and equities.
Margin financing in equities and commodities works by the consumer taking a bath in the event of a tumble in prices i.e. you cannot meet your margin call, your position is liquidated and you lose your equity....the financier is safe. Sadly for the banks, housing does not work that way.....they take the bath. And they have taken such a bath, they are still wet. Hence all these measures I outlined in my post above. Right now in the US, neither the banks nor their overseer the Fed has the appetite to resurrect NINJA loans.

PS: Remember when the equity tech bubble burst circa 2000? Investors lost money, the banks were safe.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by vera_k »

^^^

NINJA I get. But there is news about increasing down payment requirements and shutting down FHA. That's what makes me wonder if there's not more to this than meets the eye.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by ldev »

vera_k wrote:^^^

NINJA I get. But there is news about increasing down payment requirements and shutting down FHA. That's what makes me wonder if there's not more to this than meets the eye.
Its all about reducing potential bank exposure...in the US system unlike virtually all other countries, mortgages are asset backed i.e. beyond his equity, the borrower does not have a stake in it. In other countries in the event of default, a lender can pursue other assets of the borrower upto and including garnishing of wages and some borrowers have to declare personal bankruptcy with all of its consequences. Hence the propensity to gamble on the upside in US real estate. To force a legal change to enable the borrower become personally responsible beyond his/her downpayment is a political challenge which is impossible to overcome in the current US gridlocked political situation. Therefore a simpler method to reduce the tendency to gamble is to increase downpayments. Regarding the FHA, I would presume the only reason is to eliminate the same ambiguity which befell Fannie and Freddie
Hari Seldon
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

I can now only ROFL at all those fancy theories fed to us unsuspecting students back in grad school about how 'reputation effects' played this mythical balancing role that would magically keep banks in check from overextending, cheating on, colluding against, betting against and generally ripping off their clients.

But those were simpler times when such BS could still be swallowed with a straight face. Times have since changed, am told...

Why Does Reputation Count for So Little on Wall Street?
There is a very peculiar article by Steven Davidoff up at the New York Times: “As Wall St. Firms Grow, Their Reputations Are Dying.” It asks a good question: why does reputation now matter for so little in the big end of the banking game? As we noted on the blog yesterday, a documentary team was struggling to find anyone who would go on camera and say positive things about Goldman, yet widespread public ire does not seem to have hurt its business an iota.

Some of Davidoff’s observation are useful, but his article goes wide of the mark on much of its analysis of why Wall Street has become an open cesspool of looting and chicanery (as opposed to keeping the true nature of the predatory aspects of the business under wraps as much as possible).
Interesting perspectives.
Prem
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Prem »

http://www.oliverwillis.com/2011/04/27/ ... g-america/
China is raping this country,” Trump told employees at Wilcox Industries, a company that manufactures tactical equipment for U.S. military forces.As a potential presidential candidate Trump has been critical of the Obama administration’s approach to the Asian economic powerhouse. At a news conference at the airport just after landing his helicopter in New Hampshire, Trump said China is taking over the world because its leaders are smarter
.

He is turning out to be such a farce. Blaming China, Opec etc , he completely ignores Wall street crooks ( who actually stretches and spread us legs so china can Rape)
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Ambar »

X-Posting from India-US Strategic relations thread :
Altair wrote:I am going to bring another angle here in this discussion. Any BRFites here doing currency/FOREX trading would know the USD is falling too steeply. If it breaks the 2008 levels of US Dollar index and if the debt ceiling is not changed before it exhausts, there is a much much bigger problem for US than a deal gone bad. America is in a situation where if they do not act in the next 2 months and get the dollar up, financial meltdown of 2008 will look like picnic.
The dollar index is higher than what it was just at the onset of sub-prime mortgage crisis. US is not going to lose sleep over the falling dollar. They are creating a situation where countries like China,India and other strong Asian economies are forced to revalue their currencies thanks to the inflation. The Yuan just broke a 18 year high against USD, and will probably continue to strengthen as China fights a 'unofficial' 10% inflation. I cannot say much about INR, it has been in the same band for a while and the RBI seems to have run out of ammunition to fight inflation. We have short memories. Lets not forget about the food riots in much of Asia and Africa in 2007 when USD fell below 75 on the index. If someone has to really worry, it is the developing world where essentials make a huge component of expenditure.

Besides, a weaker dollar and a better tax code for the corporates will encourage the creation of new jobs in US.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by VikramS »

SwamyG:

9/11 led to the following:

-> A reopening of the Fed liquidity taps. They had been opened after the Tech bust. 9/11 forced them to stay open for too long to make sure the system does not collapse due to the psychological shock.

-> A focus on encouraging housing industry (a result of liquidity and low rates). Part of it was attributed to the desire of people to look inwards and nest after 9/11. Part of it was a quick way to create a lot of jobs. Another part was to inflate the price of homes to make people feel good and spend after the shock of 9/11. By the end of 2004 early 2005 a lot of people felt that the liquidity had been kept there for too long, resulting in the debt
bubble and the great recession.

-> Significantly increased expenditure on homeland security and other counter-terror activities which hinder productivity (long lines at the airport are just a beginning) and move capital away from truly innovative R&D which can propel the next economic wave of prosperity (paging Neshant). All this security business provides jobs to bullies but drains the productive and innovative aspect of the economy (unless you course full body scanners as furthering human progress)

-> Of course the direct result were the wars abroad which have cost the US hundreds of billions of dollars.

====
Prem:
Trump did get this one right.

China Inc is one giant machine which operates companies under a very strong state patronage umbrella. Many big Chinese companies are private only in name. The Chinese have a very strong focus on national interest and their corporations are a part of that process. The competition is very uneven.

Foreign companies get very limited access to the Chinese markets while the US market is wide open for Chinese exports. This is creating big imbalances and an immense amount of frustration among US corporate elites. A few of the oligarchs have aired the dirty laundry in public though most are unwilling to do enrage the Chinese; behind the scenes though they are very upset. They make the investments and give the technology to get very little in return.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by SwamyG »

VikramS: Thanks for elaborating. But I am not convinced those are the reasons for the economic downturn. 9/11 related war expenses might be a valid factor for increased expenditure. But the entire economy tanking? Naah. The Internet Bubble when it broke, took down much wind out of the system, it spluttered but there was a boom as people never learned the meaning of spending within means.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by paramu »

Ambar wrote:The dollar index is higher than what it was just at the onset of sub-prime mortgage crisis. US is not going to lose sleep over the falling dollar. They are creating a situation where countries like China,India and other strong Asian economies are forced to revalue their currencies thanks to the inflation.
It is also creating a situation that makes these countries to think about how to continue trade without using USD. If they succeed in that, it is going to be scary for the US.
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Re: Perspectives on the global economic meltdown- (Nov 28 20

Post by Hari Seldon »

Yawny baba makes a grand return. More yawns as D&G reports rehash old arguments.
Central banks pump $5 trillion into world economy (Telegraf)

The UK telegraf variety of tabloid D&G journalism stands quite discredited buthey, gotta admit, makes for spicy reading only.
The world's central banks have pumped £3 trillion into the global financial system since the crisis, the equivalent of 8pc of the world economy, according to new analysis by Fathom Consulting. The figures will intensify fears that the extraordinary injection of liquidity is responsible for rising stock markets, rather than any underlying pick-up in corporate health or investor confidence.

Erik Britton, a director at Fathom, compared the development to throwing lighter fuel on a barbecue. The question is, he said, "whether the coals are lit". The warning is the result of the extraordinary measures to prop up the financial system, which have seen central banks resort to strategies such as buying up bonds to keep the flow of money circulating.

Fathom's economists are worried that last year may have marked the high point of the global recovery. "It remains unclear how much of the equity market rally has been 'genuine', rather than simply a 'mopping up' of that extraordinary injection of liquidity," they warned. "As that stimulus is gradually withdrawn, further gains in equity markets will be harder to achieve."

To reach the £3 trillion figure, presented in its calculations as $5 trillion, Fathom measured the liquidity injections made by the world's four major central banks, by tracking how their balance sheets changed in the wake of the crisis.
Like I said, Yawn only.

More breathlessly hot yawns from other qtrs:
In a BusinessWeek editorial, Peter Coy and Rouben Farzad described the bubbles:
“It’s as if 2008 never happened. Once again the worlds investors are pumping up bubbles that will probably explode in their faces. After the popping of a real estate bubble led to the first global recession since the 1930s, world markets are frothing like shaken Champagne. Pundits claim to have spotted price increases that are unsupported by economic fundamentals in assets ranging from U.S. farmland to Israeli biotech to Australian housing to Chinese cemetery sites. Commodities have soared. Global junk-bond issuance hit a record in the first three months of the year … this is the granddaddy of them all, an almost-encompassing bubble right at the heart of monetary systems.”
es, the “granddaddy of all bubbles” will explode right in Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke’s face, a bubble that will then sink like a stiletto deep into the “heart of the monetary systems” across the world, proving something Nassim Taleb said about Bernanke when Obama reappointed him in 2009, “he doesn’t even know he doesn’t understand how things work,” and that his methods make “homeopath and alternative healers look empirical and scientific.”
What BS. Stop pretending that just coz Ben doesn't know, you do. Pomposity or what.
Last edited by Hari Seldon on 30 Apr 2011 08:48, edited 1 time in total.
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