Intelligence & National Security Discussion

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 28 Apr 2011 21:29

Right after American-Russian contenders in MMRCA were kicked out, congress is hit with this. Am I the only person who is connecting these dots ?

ranjithnath · Post by **ranjithnath** » 28 Apr 2011 21:41

watching the debate now in times now with PB,KD,jayanti natarajan,brinda karat and JK dutta.the whole thing is taking political angle.times now have got their hands full for another week.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Apr 2011 21:49

Ouch CPI(m) is in soup, now i start believing Brihaspatiji's assertion that the Maoists are infiltrated or are another front by the INCs. Now EJs could also arrange drops for the maoists

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 28 Apr 2011 22:18

Ajit Doval, the ex IB claimed that IB is never used by political masters ;p

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 28 Apr 2011 22:51

So the end goal was to unseat the Left govt in WB. The plan was to drop arms with(out) knowledge of the margis. Margis would use it to fight the commies. Plan didnt work because either the MArgis didnt pick up the thread, basically showed foresight and didnt join hands with the foreign forces or some enterprising since WB police officer blew the lid and went to town with the story before it could be suppressed. Intention behind unseating the left govt was ok but the means used were wrong, everyone all along knew that elections were being rigged so the govt of the day should ahve instituted reforms to fix it rather than taking this circuitous route. Anyways that is story in the past.

By breaking this now on TV who gains, it is obviously the left govt, all fringe players would now be bought by the theory that there is an international conspiracy against the "most democratic" left govt and may vote for it. Btw I ahve seen pics taken by my friend who is a native of Purulia and Midnapore and the conditions are really really bad

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 29 Apr 2011 03:44

Hudson says - CIA, MI6, IB conspiracy to supply Ananda marg with 250 Ak4,s 17k bullets, RPG 7, grenades, 80anti tank missiles, sniper rifles.

Mig 25 intercepted it over Mumbai and CBI made the arrest. Someone met Bleach in copenhagen with a list of weapons for ananda marg. Bleach contacted DESO in Britian and explained the deal. Then rest is history.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 29 Apr 2011 08:54

Marten wrote:Chackocha, Doval sa'ab is one of the finest and most outstanding officers that has served this country. I wish we do not sully his name in this sordid mess. IB may have done whatever, but its officers are not required to spill their guts except when required in a court of law or an equivalent inquiry within the executive branch.

He is good. You should have seen him on ET NOW debate. I was disappointed.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Apr 2011 10:26

So the two radars were deliberately shut off on RAW or other Indian Intel instructions , I remember those days there were stories that the IAF radar was down due to technical failure.

It hard to believe a transport aircraft would take off from Pakistan fly deep inside Indian Airspace , go off planned route drop huge arms and leave Indian airspace without the RAW or IAF not knowing about such operation.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Apr 2011 10:31

I saw the entire ET debate yesterday JP Datta , Doval didnt sound too convincing when confronted with some questions and Doval claims that IB dont work for politicians etc which every one knows its not true.

JP Data was accused by Peter as being sent by CBI to clean things up and was referring him as "Mr Clean Up" guy

What ever the intentions are those arms would have wrecked havoc and recent news of truck load of arms just dissapearing seems that some one on Govt is playing a double game and playing with life of security forces.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Apr 2011 11:36

It hard to believe a transport aircraft would take off from Pakistan fly deep inside Indian Airspace , go off planned route drop huge arms and leave Indian airspace without the RAW or IAF not knowing about such operation.

This one point points towards a Inside hand though i dont want it that way...doubt if even a bird (winged creature) can fly in from Pak and travel across the Indian heartland without being tracked!!!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Apr 2011 11:41

^^ They spoke of 2 Radars being shut off or not working on that day , only some one having inside knowledge of such a deal would shut it off deliberately or know it was not working on that specific day would plan such mission.

jai · Post by **jai** » 29 Apr 2011 14:13

Funny, in this whole TV debate on the arms dropping, no ones asked so far -

a) Who paid for the arms ?

b) How was the money transferred ?

Now that this can of worms has been opened, I hope they investigate it thoroughly....under Supreme Court oversight, otherwise nothing will come out of it.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Apr 2011 14:35

My observations:
1. Important question: This arms drop failed / was detected because the WB government and the media ensured that things came to light.

I shudder to think, that there might have been more such drops. Can't get it beyond the netajis to not support their goonda cronies.

2. I don't think that any IAF radar was closed / Shut down / inoperational. Logic makes me think that the IAF radar was monitoring everything, there might have been fighters on hot standby / in the air too. Because if the CO of Kalaikunda was asked to monitor but do nothing about a bogie that will be deviating a little from the flight path, he might have taken certain precautions like the one's I've mentioned. I know the general flight path here, the deviation is not much. The plane would have had to deviate something like 20-30 Kms and at a much lower altitude if they wanted to do a drop and expecte it to land where they wanted it to land.

Simply put, it is possible that GoI hushed it up, MoD hushed the IAF up.

3. I hate the logic of supplying weapons to anyone in India so that Indian citizens will be killed. Very bad - makes you a terrorist.

There are atrocities going on in the villages. Several horror stories in the media with some very graphic pictures.
The atrocities increase just after elections as retributions to the way a village votes. Things are very messy and it is shameful that this sort of thing goes on and the powers that be pretend that everything is hunky dory.

There were no Anti Tank rockets here. The rockets were RPG-7s but the explosive they had at the tip was HE only, useful in bunker / sanghar busting onlee. That won't make much of a dent on a Tank - will probably explode on the tank's skin without much damage. But very useful from a terrorist's POV because they can take out a Police station or a small building with their targets, using just one of those - no need to risk people to go in and attack that place with rifles.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 29 Apr 2011 14:52

B. Raman's take on the Purulia issue

PURULIA ARMS DROP: A SHAMEFUL EPISODE IN THE HISTORY OF INDIAN INTELLIGENCE

( Triggered by an interview of the pilot telecast by the Times Now news channel since this morning )

B.RAMAN

The clandestine Purulia arms drop of December 1995, in which an aircraft piloted by a group of mercenaries hired by an unidentified extremist organisation---suspected to be the Anand Marg--- managed to fly right across the Indian air space to Purulia in West Bengal, air-drop a consignment of arms and ammunition to a collecting party on the ground and fly to Pattaya in Thailand unprevented and unintercepted by the Indian intelligence and security agencies and the Air Force despite the availability of precise advance intelligence is a shameful episode in the history of Indian intelligence.

2. A few weeks before the actual air-drop, the extremist organisation which had procured the arms and ammunition had approached a retired pilot of the British Air Force and offered to pay him handsomely if he organised the air-drop successfullly. Even though tempted by the sum offered, he did not initially agree to carry it out. He asked for time to think over it. He then contacted an official of the British Defence Ministry and told him about the approach made to him by the extremists. The official advised him not to reject the officer and wait for further instructions.

3. The Defence Ministry official then told the MI-5, the British Security Service, about it. The MI-5 immediately informed the Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW), with which it had a liaison relationship, about it.The R&AW, after examining the matter, asked the MI-5 to advise the pilot to accept the task and to keep the MI-5 informed of all his meetings with the extremist organisation and the detailed plans for the air-drop including the date and time, the place of the air-drop and the flight path.

4. The pilot faithfully carried out the instructions and kept the MI-5 informed of all the details at every stage. These details were passed on by the MI-5 to the R&AW which, in turn, passed them on to the Intelligence Bureau, which was responsible for follow-up action. It was reported that the R&AW passed on the details given by the pilot through the MI-5 to the IB as if it had collected them on its own from one of its sources instead of specifying that the details were coming from the pilot himself through the MI-5.If the R&AW had taken the IB into confidence and told it that the details were coming from the pilot himself through the MI-5, the IB might have taken the details more seriously.

5.Normally, in such cases, if the matter had been handled professionally, the R&AW would have taken the clearance of the Prime Minister for flying out a team of officers of the IB and the R&AW to the UK to meet the piliot secretly with the help of the MI-5 and the British Defence Ministry and take his co-operation for organising a trap on the ground so that the collecting party could have been arrested while collecting the air-dropped arms and ammunition and the identity of the extremist organisation established.

6. Nothing of that sort was done. The R&AW passed on the information in a routine manner to the IB without specifying that it was coming from the pilot through the MI-5. The IB, instead of organising the follow-up action itself, passed it on to the West Bengal Police in an equally routine manner. The then Chief Secretary of the West Bengal Government later on complained that the IB had sent the information by registered post and that it was received after the air drop had taken place and the aircraft had flown out of India.

7. One does not know whether the R&AW and the IB kept the Indian Air Force in the picture so that the IAF could have kept track of the plane and made sure that the pilot did not play any tricks. The plane entered the air space over Mumbai from Pakistan, flew to the air space over Purulia, air-dropped the arms and ammunition and then flew on to Pattaya in Thailand.

8. In the meanwhile,most of the air-dropped arms and ammunition had been removed by unidentified elements. The IB issued an alert to all concerned to look for the plane if it flew over the Indian air space again while flying back to the UK. After a couple of days, the British pilot and his Latvian crew took off from Pattaya, flew to Chennai, landed at the airport there, got the aircraft refuelled there and then took off. Only after the aircraft had taken off from Chennai did the intelligence and airport officials realise that it was the same plane that had air-dropped the arms and ammunition.

9. The IAF intercepted the aircraft before it could leave the Indian air space and forced it to land at Mumbai. One person on board the plane, who reportedly belonged to the extremist organisation, managed to quietly walk out of the airport without being stopped by the security and the immigration. The British pilot and crew were arrested. Sections of the media had reported that the pilot was in a very violent mood and abused the police and intelligence officials.

10. No wonder. He had taken the initiative in alerting the intelligence agencies and keeping them informed of all the details. He expected that he would be honoured and rewarded. Instead, he was allegedly treated roughly, prosecuted and jailed.

11. A few weeks after this incident, the then British Home Secretary had come to India on a scheduled visit. In his interaction with our local media, he pointed out how the British intelligence had kept its Indian counterpart informed.

12. I have been writing about this shameful episode off and on since 1996. In my book "Intelligence---Past, Present and Future" published in 2001 ( Lancer Publishers of New Delhi), I had stated as follows on Page 233: " The normal response of any professional counter-terrorism agency, on the receipt of such precise information, would have been to organise a trap in co-operation with the pilot who had reportedly volunteered the information, for catching the terrorists on the ground while they were collecting the arms and ammunition after the air-drop. Till now, no satisfactory explanation has been forthcoming from the security agencies as to why this was not done."

13. We do not know the answer to this even today. (28-4-11)

( The writer is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi )

Sagrawal · Post by **Sagrawal** » 29 Apr 2011 16:02

jai wrote:Funny, in this whole TV debate on the arms dropping, no ones asked so far -

a) Who paid for the arms ?

b) How was the money transferred ?

Now that this can of worms has been opened, I hope they investigate it thoroughly....under Supreme Court oversight, otherwise nothing will come out of it.

to add the list

c) how much arms were dropped and how many recovered?

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 29 Apr 2011 16:39

The reason is simple and staright ! Congress sarkar wants to protect the naxals (for theier own political benefits) to act against Communists !! God save this country from congress & communists !!!

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 29 Apr 2011 17:16

Prabu wrote:The reason is simple and staright ! Congress sarkar wants to protect the naxals (for theier own political benefits) to act against Communists !! God save this country from congress & communists !!!

This is the second instance where Vajpayee saved INC's (possibly PVNR's) skin.. another one was Yuvaraj getting caught and bowled on khan airport with lots of Rokdaa.. there might be many more..

Vajpayee-PVNR seems to have shared an intimate relation, it seems.. Vajpayee was chosen to represent India's side on kashmir in UNO by PVNR.. the chit given by PVNR telling vajpayee to test the nuke.. PVNR's role in ayodhya episode. Now this..

interesting indeed..

Sagrawal · Post by **Sagrawal** » 29 Apr 2011 18:29

Atri wrote:
This is the second instance where Vajpayee saved INC's (possibly PVNR's) skin.. another one was Yuvaraj getting caught and bowled on khan airport with lots of Rokdaa.. there might be many more..

interesting indeed..

Sorry for OT but I remember Ram Jethmalani was saying something similar that Vajpayee helped Congress when Yuvraj was caught in USA during a discussion on times now before Arnab interrupted him.
Any links where I can read more about this? when was this?

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 29 Apr 2011 18:54

Following up on the Purulia expose:

The claim of destabilising the then WB govt seems to far fetched in light of the huge increment in the firepower of local gangs in the region and also the eruption of the Naxal insurgency in an explosive manner.

More important are the names of the CBI officers being blamed for the 'cover up' by Peter Bleach in the arms drop case.

JK Dutt - After the stint with CBI, went to head the NSG during the 26/11 operations and had done a good job from available accounts.
PM Nair - Was part of CBI special team investigating Rajiv Gandhi assassination and went to author a well received book on Organised Crime, where he was critical of our agencies ability to tackle such crimes.
Loknath Behara - Currently with NIA and headed the team which interrogated David Coleman Headley in US.
U N Biswas - Was allegedly sidelined by JK Dutt to 'clean up' the aftermath of the case. This has been denied by him on TV. He went to lead the fodder scam investigation and did a good enough job of putting Lalu in the dock.

From the above it is clear that these gentlemen have been part of sensitive and important assignments before and after the arms drop case and have done their tasks well enough. So I find it hard to believe that these gentlemen would have been all part of a cover up on the basis of one gentleman, who is an ex-intel officer from a not-always-friendly nation.

I may well be wrong but at this point I prefer to trust our own than a furriner.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Apr 2011 20:15

The BRaman recounting is very interesting. He in effect says its IB failure to communicate and take follow-up action. He also doesn't highlight if RAW felt the need to do follow-up of the early report. Then the IB failure stems from sending the rpeort by snail mail with registered post to WB police. It shows they want to get acknowledgement that it was recieved. Is there no liason office in Kolkata to which they could communiate? To me it looks a classic example of organizational failure due to heirarchy and lack of single point of responsibility. Its IB's job to follow the report to closure. Yet it has no arresting powers thanks to Center-State list!

National Security issues are Center list and not State lists. Arms drop in India from foreign country is a national security issue. So again bureaucratic mindset is the root cause of the failure.

Recall the British spy/agent Sidney Cotton case in 1948 when he flew a plane from TSP and dropped arms to Hyderabad for the Razakars. He was arrested then. How come it didn't happen this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Cotton

....
Although his flight plans were dictated by the German government, he consistently managed to get away with flying off-track over military installations. Cotton had a very persuasive manner, and exploited any advantage he could.

....
In 1948, Sidney Cotton spent time in the service of Osman Ali Khan, the last Nizam of Hyderabad State. Using unarmed Avro Lancastrian transports, he organized airlifts of armaments, supplies and medicines from Pakistan into Hyderabad State during the advance of the Indian Army executing Operation Polo, the annexation or liberation of Hyderabad State by India[8] For his activities in Hyderabad, he was convicted and fined 200 pounds in a British Court.

So its not like it never happened. Its repeat of same actors: British agents and agencies, TSP as staging ground, arms drop into interior India and then escape to SE Asia and fly back as innocents abroad!

So all in all its a GOI failure all the way for they never learn and dont want to laern for they cant be held accountable. As they are brown Raj.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Apr 2011 21:18

Peter Bleach, the Arms dealer in question is very open as far as the amount of weapons that he air dropped.
He mentions 250 AK-47s, and he knows the exact number of the magazines, rounds, RPGs etc that were dropped.

Now if Peter Bleach had kept MI5 and thereby RAW well informed, the fact that he had to spend 8 years in prison in India is sad.

The person who should be jailed for waging war against India is Kim Davies, and his alleged recipients of Arms.

But the Netaji angle is very very plausible. Kim Davis not only manages to escape, but it seems that the CBI was finding it difficult to trace him. He became traceable only after he spoke to the media a little too openly in Denmark.

What I really feel scared about is - Was this the only airdrop to have occured? This was discovered by the villagers because some of the dropped packages fell into a pond, and some close to a village and the villagers discovered the consignment.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Apr 2011 22:00

calling anandmarg a 'suspected extremist organisation' is beyond funny, neither before or after this incident were they ever accused or implicated in any violent activities. by what magic does a social and spiritual organisation transform overnight into one capable of handling sophisticated arms and ammo AND manage contacts and funding to get weapons from pakistan ?
this was the reason why AM was a convenient scapegoat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_burni ... est_Bengal

the president's rule angle is equally ridiculous, congress has imposed president's rule dozens of times in various states without needing any strong cause. why would it need a massive law and order breakdown in WB ? that too using a method that could easily blow up in their face ? in any case, the relations between left and INC at state level have been quite cordial.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 29 Apr 2011 22:17

It took 13 years and a 26/11 to make these people (our system) realize the need of establishing a NIA for efficiently networking the intelligence from all sources and its processing and rapid dissemination of workable information to police and other executive arms of system. In this case, the ultimate blame will be taken by Indian Postal service for slower delivery of registered post..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Apr 2011 22:25

intel agencies should have their own daily courier services between major nodes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Apr 2011 22:52

Atri< yet NIA cant arrest anyone!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Apr 2011 23:54

The worst thing that the Anand Margis have done is the 'Chandal Dance' where they make even the kids dance like 'chandals' with skulls and bones - loony stuff.

I also think that the Ananda Margis are the scapegoats here. Don't come across as violent at all.

Now if Hon. Pappu Yadav ji is the said politician involved, we can also try to rule out the 'congress-wanting-to-destabilize-the-WB-government-to-impose-president's-rule' angle.

With Pappu Yadav ji involved, several other possibilities open up.

1. Private armies in north bihar.
2. Naxalites, MCC (maoist communist movement) etc.
3. Goons upgrading firepower.

1, and 3 are self explanatory, when one looks at the kind of power politics that goes on in Patna and North Bihar.
2 is interesting. Because the word on the streets has been that the MCC was laloo's gift to the newly formed Jharkhand state, or something along those lines. unverifiable heresay and rumours.

The naxals in the WB, Jharkhand, and Chattishgarh area do come equipped with a fair amount of firepower, as the CRPF encounters in Dantewada show us. I guess some one's been busy supplying the Naxals.

The airdrop is a rather drastic way to do it. The usual way would be across the Bangaldesh border, or via sea or up the hoogly from the bay of bengal.

This Kim Davis chap is surely a suspicious character. He is motivated enough to come live in the interiors of bengal for several years, and of the two Peter and Kim Davis, it is the latter who knows a lot more things. Peter comes across as bitter - who wouldn't be after nearly dying in Presidency Jail of TB for 8 years?

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 30 Apr 2011 00:21

Gagan, do you have breakup of the arms & ammo given by PB?
Need to tally it with AN 26 payload - 5.5T per wiki with 1100km range for max payload, fits with fuel stop at Varanasi. I have sneaky feeling that a lot more was dropped than claimed. Also need to find how much was recovered by police.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 30 Apr 2011 01:25

He said 250 AK-47s on TV,
Something like 17,000 rounds

40 or 50 or 70 RPG-7s - exact figure escapes me.

Anyway, all the arms were never recovered. Only the ones that ended in a pond and a few packets that fell close to a village were recovered. The Naxals around that area did have increased firepower after that.

I will watch out for it. Times Now has been repeating that endlessly yesterday. Today they are only playing the various reactions.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 30 Apr 2011 01:37

shyamd wrote:Hudson says - CIA, MI6, IB conspiracy to supply Ananda marg with 250 Ak4,s 17k bullets, RPG 7, grenades, 80anti tank missiles, sniper rifles.

Mig 25 intercepted it over Mumbai and CBI made the arrest. Someone met Bleach in copenhagen with a list of weapons for ananda marg. Bleach contacted DESO in Britian and explained the deal. Then rest is history.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 02 May 2011 14:51

Item Number Unit Weight (gms) Total Weight (kg)
AK 250 4300 1075
Ammo 17000 18 306
Grenades 2000 300 600
RPG 70 7000 490
HE Rockets 1100 2500 2750
Sniper rifles 50 5500 275

Net Total Weight 5496 kg

The above break up tallies with 5.5T payload. I suspect Aks number is much higher with proportional reduction in grenades and HE rockets.

I got the weights from google and looking at the numbers that is some serious firepower we are looking at. This can't be for creating situation for Art 356 by any means. Anyone thinking so is smoking highly potent stuff. This can arm a few companies of the military, if you get my drift...

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 May 2011 01:34

ramana wrote:...Recall the British spy/agent Sidney Cotton case in 1948 when he flew a plane from TSP and dropped arms to Hyderabad for the Razakars. He was arrested then. How come it didn't happen this time.....

Never heard that one before - thanks. Are there more details on this operation?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 May 2011 01:40

shyamd wrote:
shyamd wrote:Hudson says - CIA, MI6, IB conspiracy to supply Ananda marg with 250 Ak4,s 17k bullets, RPG 7, grenades, 80anti tank missiles, sniper rifles.

Mig 25 intercepted it over Mumbai and CBI made the arrest. Someone met Bleach in copenhagen with a list of weapons for ananda marg. Bleach contacted DESO in Britian and explained the deal. Then rest is history.

whoever said that need their heads examined. sniper rifles and rpg-7 for ananda margis, people who do not even have had a charge of gun violence till date ? the most they have used are trishuls.

and mig-25 intercepted it ? all our mig-25's were recon or trainer versions with no A2A capability. they are also based quite some distance from mumbai.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 May 2011 01:57

ramana wrote:
....
In 1948, Sidney Cotton spent time in the service of Osman Ali Khan, the last Nizam of Hyderabad State. Using unarmed Avro Lancastrian transports, he organized airlifts of armaments, supplies and medicines from Pakistan into Hyderabad State during the advance of the Indian Army executing Operation Polo, the annexation or liberation of Hyderabad State by India[8] For his activities in Hyderabad, he was convicted and fined 200 pounds in a British Court.

So its not like it never happened. Its repeat of same actors: British agents and agencies, TSP as staging ground, arms drop into interior India and then escape to SE Asia and fly back as innocents abroad!

But they all have the same goal. Here we fail to understand that all the players have a common goal.
This has been going on for 60 years

Why is that all of them have the same goal against India. Once that secret is known then we can really protect our nation.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 May 2011 09:10

Slightly OT, but this guy Sidney Cotton IIRC, took out lots of jewelery and gold of the Nizam prior to Operation polo. On reason why they can afford ranches n Australia. The 206Cr GOI settlement came just a few years back but the Nizam was living a life of luxury outside India before that.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 07 May 2011 01:46

‘Spy’ freed from Pakistan prison makes shocking allegations

Gopal Das, an Indian prisoner languishing in a Pakistan jail for 27 years, has made shocking allegations that Indian foreign office staff had provided a tip-off to the Pakistani authorities which enabled them to catch Das.
:
Talking with media persons, Das said, "The Indian officers had provided the inputs because of which I was picked up by the Pakistani authorities. The Indian officers did it for money. Indian politicians and ministers made several appeals to the Pakistani government for my release, but all in vain. The authorities agreed to release me only when the SC stepped in."

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 07 May 2011 18:20

Cross Posting
India to have network of strategic roads by 2013

"By 2013 we would be able to complete work on bulk of the roads. There can not be a deadline for the last road as there are some very tough nuts to crack and we are trying to find the solution," Border Roads Organization (BRO) Director General Lt Gen S Ravi Shankar told reporters here.

About 63 per cent of work on 27 roads in Arunachal Pradesh and 12 in Ladakh are complete, he said, adding that these are high priority roads closely monitored at the highest levels.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 08 May 2011 04:14

Pakistan breaches trust, names local CIA boss

Wow second time in less than a year!

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 09 May 2011 09:28

x-post from Space Program thread:

A description of US satellite surveillance capabilities:

WATCHING 'THE PACER'

Once the Americans had spotted the compound in August last year, they quickly began monitoring it with spy satellites.

"We put 24/7 eyes on it," said an intelligence source. Pakistani CIA agents began renting a nearby house, with windows made up of two-way mirrors, while Task Force Orange focused on providing the intelligence that would be required to ensure that any eventual operation went as smoothly as possible.

The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, one of the most sophisticated non-violent weapons in America's armoury, swung into action. Using satellite images, information from sources and transcripts of intercepted phone calls, it produced imagery analysis that described in detail the compound's dimensions, features and even the "pattern of life" behaviour of its inhabitants.

Yet the spies were unable to capture an image of the al-Qa'ida leader. Panetta told the PBS television network: "We noticed an individual who was pacing in the courtyard who at least had some of the appearances (of bin Laden), but we were never able to verify that, in fact, it was him."

The watchers began referring to this man as "The Pacer". His routine suggested that as much as he never left the compound he was practically a prisoner within it.

The White House asked the NGA to estimate his height. They came back at between 5ft 8in (172cm) and 6ft 8in (203cm). It was a broad range, caused by the extreme vertical angle of the satellite picture, but consistent with bin Laden. Panetta told Obama it was the best "window of opportunity" they had had since Tora Bora.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... 6052094513

IMHO, it is not impossible with present day technology to get 24 x 7 live video of any required location. Recall that with a constellation of 24 satellites (such as the GPS system) one can have 4 satellites in the sky at any place at any time.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgon_Stare . For a description of some problems encountered see http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl ... arly-tests

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 May 2011 20:48

Disturbing report from Pioneer. Looks like a whole slew of people are involved.

LINK

CAG blew lid off NTRO top brass misdeeds
May 09, 2011 8:56:12 PM

J Gopikrishnan | New Delhi

Apart from the blatant violations in the Rs 450 crore worth Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) purchase through manipulation of directions of the Cabinet Committee on Security, the Comptroller & Auditor General of India has also found gross irregularities in recruitments and plundering of public money by the top bosses of the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO).

Specifically noting the misdeeds of NTRO top officials, the CAG points out that even after getting its own building for its headquarters in October 2007, senior officials maintained the old rented office as their guesthouse for around two years.

“The organisation established in 2004 was working from a rented bungalow at Hauz Khaz at a rent of Rs 6.70 lakh per month. Though the headquarters was shifted to its own building near JNU campus, top babus maintained the old bungalow as their guesthouses till May 2009, though they have separate accommodation facility in the Capital,” said the CAG report.

Indicting former NTRO chairman KVSS Prasad Rao and its advisor MS Vijayaraghavan for several misdeeds, the CAG found that the former had even transferred around Rs 45 lakh to a Chennai-based Private Public Partnership agency, where the latter is holding the post of Executive Director simultaneously. This amount was granted to the agency for a development project and it was never delivered also. Several such transactions were diverted from NTRO to Society for Electronic Transaction Security (SETS), which is chaired by none other than Dr R Chidamabram, Principal Scientific Advisor to the Prime Minister. Chidambaram is considered as the mentor of Vijayaraghavan. Most of these transactions to friendly agencies failed’ all proper accounting standards, observed CAG.

The CAG also found gross irregularities in travelling expenses of senior officers of NTRO, including Advisor Vijayaraghavan. According to the report, most of the top officials of NTRO had even falsely claimed their trips as “official” even when they went on holidays and to the private institutions, headed or controlled by them.

The CAG’s very first report on the functioning of an intelligence agency, marked as “Top Secret” reveals that as many as 143 postings in the NTRO had violated all norms for the past six years.

The report, submitted to the President in mid-February 2011, reveals how the recruitments were manipulated in the country’s premier technical intelligence gathering agency, which works directly under the NSA and the Prime Minister. According to the report, as many as 143 appointments in the NTRO were done on contractual basis during the past seven years.

Exposing the violations and nepotism in the crucial intelligence gathering agency of the country, the CAG report finds even candidates with mere Degree in Arts were accommodated in important technical wings and most of the key postings were done on contractual basis. The performance audit of the agency found candidates were appointed to higher post for which they had not even applied for.

“Even the nine postings at the Joint Secretary level” are also on contract basis. As per the norms, the Joint Secretary-level postings need concurrence of Appointments Committee of the Cabinet. No such clearances were received in these appointments, observed CAG.

The Government Auditor had decided to audit the affairs of NTRO on November 2009, after receiving several complaints on the functioning of the intelligence agency. According to sources, the then NSA MK Narayanan objected to the decision of the CAG to inspect the account of intelligence outfits. The auditor got go-ahead signal from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in the last week of December 2009.

The CAG started audit on January 2010 and submitted the report marking “Top Secret” in February 2011. But the Government did not place it in Parliament during the Budget Session, which commenced on February 21. The report is currently with NSA Shiv Shankar Menon.

Interesting situation. I think the CAG also reveals more than they need to make their findings.

RC wont be part of any of this mess.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 09 May 2011 23:40

Rahul M wrote: whoever said that need their heads examined. sniper rifles and rpg-7 for ananda margis, people who do not even have had a charge of gun violence till date ? the most they have used are trishuls.

and mig-25 intercepted it ? all our mig-25's were recon or trainer versions with no A2A capability. they are also based quite some distance from mumbai.

Rahul M ji , I cannot give any reference on the web.But Ananda Margis was involved in Purulia operation.In fact they were the primary distributors for the airdropped weapons.I know someone who has first hand info about this episode.Trust me Ananda margis is nothing but poison.

What you are saying about MIG-25 is right though.

There are lot of conspiracy theories about this operation.But the truth is much simpler.Gangsters and Private armies operating in Bihar,Jharkhand and Eastern UP needed firepower(include naxalites in this also) and Eastern European Organized crime supplied them for profit.Ananda Margis played the role of a distributor for their own cut.That is it.

I can even name the hit jobs where some of these weapons were used.