Books that cover Indian Armed Forces and its History

debjani · Post by **debjani** » 07 Jun 2003 08:15

Jagan,
Thanks

Originally posted by RajeevT:
]

T************
But in spite of that there is no taking away the enthusiasm for the army. If George Fernandes is worrying where to get officers from for his army, he should come here because today’s Ahirs will not merely be other ranks. So many of them will now graduate from English medium schools, even Yaduvanshi Convent, and will probably still not have accent and diction “fixable” for call centres. The army — but the officer corps now — would do just fine.
***************

The accent amongst the officer cadre is predominantly the 'Giomandi' type. Not to worry. The army still runs.

Let me assure you that there is NO shortage of volunteers, it is just that they don't come up to the Qualitative Requirement, even though it has been diluted. Other jobs are more attractive and less demanding physically like MNCs etc.

However, this is not the thread.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 07 Jun 2003 12:40

Originally posted by Jagan:
Ray

The book is Spy on the Roof of the World by Sydney Wignall published by Harper Collins.

-Jagan

Let me take my foot out of my mouth and issue a correction

"n an explosive book Spies in the Himalayas, mountaineer Capt Mohan Singh Kohli, who led these expeditions to Nanda Devi, Nanda Kot and other summits between 1965 and 1968, and CIA expert Kenneth Conboy chronicle the planting of nuclear-powered monitoring devices by the CIA.
"

Sorry for the confusion.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 07 Jun 2003 12:50

Very interesting inputs on the Nuclear device mission from someone 'who was there'. (Aman, can you cross check with the book and tell me if the following details are there in it?)

The Americans bought in a Kaman H-43 Huskie to helilift the device to the top. But it was totally unsuitable for the mission. The option was to use an Mi-4. The Mi-4 had an altitude limitation of 3300 meters. The Engr officer stripped the chopper of all non-essential equipment and fiddled with the engine supercharges to give it a better performance (though reducing its life) and also made other changes whcih would have earned him a court martial today. The pilot flew it upto 5500 meters altitude - something the russians would never even dream off, then dropped his load in a 'controlled crash' and then flew back to fly further supply missions.

The comment on the ARC crew

They were Unsung Heroes. Proof of Skill , no prangs & a job very well done!

AmanC · Post by **AmanC** » 08 Jun 2003 14:06

Originally posted by Jagan:
Very interesting inputs on the Nuclear device mission from someone 'who was there'. (Aman, can you cross check with the book and tell me if the following details are there in it?)

The Americans bought in a Kaman H-43 Huskie to helilift the device to the top. But it was totally unsuitable for the mission. The option was to use an Mi-4. The Mi-4 had an altitude limitation of 3300 meters. The Engr officer stripped the chopper of all non-essential equipment and fiddled with the engine supercharges to give it a better performance (though reducing its life) and also made other changes whcih would have earned him a court martial today. The pilot flew it upto 5500 meters altitude - something the russians would never even dream off, then dropped his load in a 'controlled crash' and then flew back to fly further supply missions.

The comment on the ARC crew

They were Unsung Heroes. Proof of Skill , no prangs & a job very well done!

Jagan,
There is a mention of the above details in the book. The Huskie proved more effective in high altitude then MI-4. A certain Flight Lt Lalwani also finds mention in the book extensively. He flew the MI-4 for ARC.
PS: can I have ur e-mail ID. Want to check something out with you.

Saurabh · Post by **Saurabh** » 09 Jun 2003 17:59

From My Bones: Memoirs of Col.Dhillon of the Indian National Army - G.S Dhillon.

A simplistically written book - Definitely not a literary masterpiece, yet a fascinating account from the inside of the INA and the battle for Imphal. The Red Fort trials are also covered from the insiders point of view. All in all a Must read.

debjani · Post by **debjani** » 09 Jun 2003 23:38

Originally posted by RajeevT:
Aman, Ray:

Come on guys, I'm dying of curiosity! What is this Gio(Gheo)Mandi accent? Any examples?

I really don't know, but I think it is something to do with folks from the Clarified Ghee Wholesale Market who have rather authentic accents which is difficult to decipher.

I believe that in Punjabi, Gheee is pronounced as 'Gio' or 'Gheo'. Aman, being in Punjab could clarify which is the correct one.

In Punjabi, 'G' become 'K' when pronoucing as 'Bh' becomes 'P'. Eg 'Bhari' becomes 'Pahri' like in the famous song 'Bara barsi khatan giya si, khatke liyande pawe. Something naaal ghungru bajaye, something chimta bajande aweye'. Well that is how it sounds to non Punjabi folks and they as I could be wrong.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 11 Jun 2003 20:32

Okay, I got my hands on the Spies in the Himalayas book last evening and finished reading it during the night. Great account. Lot of tidbits on ARC, SFF. Put in the context of the 60s, it would make a great TV mini series , if not a movie - move over Vertical Limits / Cliff hangar (We have a real story here!). Imagine India fighting a war with Pakistan in Sept 65, while the mountaineers are trying to haul a CIA device on a 25000 foot mountain at another place..

Some good Gen on Biju Patnaik, Ramnath Kao, Arvind Dave, SS Uban , BM Mullick and the many characters who formed the cloak and dagger community of India.

Small tidbits include that the CIA carried out U-2 recce flights over China from E Pakistan in the 50s. These flights flew over Indian territory with the tacit consent of BN Mullic. At least one U-2 flight took off from Charbatia for China.

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 11 Jun 2003 22:06

wignall's book is a damn good read, as previously discussed on BR (China thread) - it's utterly engrossing. what's intrigued me now is that he claims that he made up a story about the CIA planting listening devices in the himalayas to amuse himself with his captors and now I see that a decade later, these devices were actually put in place! his descriptions of the indian officers is very much old school british types - which is understandable from the era

the fact that wignall and friend's survived the interrogation and then the walk back to India in winter with very few rations when a normal man would have died shows true grit and determination - more so for wignall's kiwi friend who saved his hide more than once

highly recommended!

Babui · Post by **Babui** » 12 Jun 2003 04:55

Anybody read "The Impregnable Conquered" by Gen Bammi ? Mention is in this article by Praveen Swami http://www.flonnet.com/fl2012/stories/20030620005912500.htm

debjani · Post by **debjani** » 14 Jun 2003 10:34

1. A Matter of Honour by Philip Mason.

2. Officers Messes of the Indian Army published by ARTRAC [Produced and Printed by Digitech Intergrated Creative Studio].
This book gives some of the insights into the traditions of the Army customs in the Mess [though some are disputable]. It also gives a Menu under 'A La Carter Cover' and another menu as 'Table 'D' Host'. Can someone amplify?

AmanC · Post by **AmanC** » 15 Jun 2003 17:06

Originally posted by Ray:
1. A Matter of Honour by Philip Mason.

2. Officers Messes of the Indian Army published by ARTRAC [Produced and Printed by Digitech Intergrated Creative Studio].
This book gives some of the insights into the traditions of the Army customs in the Mess [though some are disputable]. It also gives a Menu under 'A La Carter Cover' and another menu as 'Table 'D' Host'. Can someone amplify?

Can one get a list of books published by ARTRAC and where they can be brought?

debjani · Post by **debjani** » 17 Jun 2003 11:18

Aman,

The best place to get military books is the English Book Depot, Dehra Dun. They have branches in the Punjab also. I saw one at Pathankot long back.

Nataraj Publishers, Dehra Dun are also into the business and the Lancer Publications.

Babui · Post by **Babui** » 17 Jun 2003 23:17

English Book Depot website http://www.ebdbooks.com/military.html

cbelwal · Post by **cbelwal** » 18 Jun 2003 18:10

Maybe this deserves a new topic. It seems a new fiction thriller written by no one else by Anirusha Bahl of Tehelka Fame. The book is called "Bunker 13". If u think its about the heroic of the Indian Army, its not. check these lines in a review by India Today

"The army and the government are corrupt, both 5 Kumaon and 7 Sikh compete in smuggling arms and drugs and even have plans to hijack nuclear warheads from a missile train. The novel ends with a twist worthy of a Frederick Forsyth in the doomed deathscape of Kargil.
"

Do fiction writers also have to negative about everything ??? Insane.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 12 Nov 2003 22:22

Check out a very good summary of the 1971 operations by Co. Jack Gill of the US National Defence University.

The 1971 India-Pakistan War: An Atlas

Warning - its a 4.76 MB PDF file.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 12 Nov 2003 23:31

Originally posted by Rangudu:

The 1971 India-Pakistan War: An Atlas

Warning - its a 4.76 MB PDF file.

Now thats one terrific document - a must have for the OrBAT Crunchers and map readers.

Also gratifying to see many familiar names mentioned in the end notes and biblio - A numbeer of the articles on BR/IAF and BRM quoted as sources.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 12 Nov 2003 23:37

Jagan,

Read the brief mention of IAF and IN ops. Reasonably unbiased, wouldn't you say?

BTW, Col. Gill is also writing the CCC analysis on the military aspects of Kargil.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 12 Nov 2003 23:43

Originally posted by Rangudu:
Jagan,

Read the brief mention of IAF and IN ops. Reasonably unbiased, wouldn't you say?

BTW, Col. Gill is also writing the CCC analysis on the military aspects of Kargil.

Rangudu

The author did a considerable amount of reading - and did his best to present all sides of the picture. no doubt about it .

This is the first attempt I have seen of someone coming out with excellent maps of troop positions and movements and gains/losses . Almost all the books i read never had maps of this detail/quality. even minor actions are denoted in them.

The Orbat tables at the end of the narration giving formation levels and formation commanders is also very good. previously only JFR Jacob's book has someting of this sort. but he covered only indian side and the eastern sector only.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 13 Nov 2003 02:51

Babui,

CCC = Center for Contemporary Conflict at the Naval Postgraduate School in California. They has a project on Kargil, with many US, Indian and Pakistani experts, the result of which is supposed to be a couple of books, including one by Col.Gill on the military aspects of Kargil

See this

member_201 · Post by **member_201** » 13 Nov 2003 04:26

Jagan had mentioned it in an earlier thread. Nevertheless, another notch for BR

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 21 Nov 2003 14:27

Memoirs by Group Captain Jacob Chacko (retd) - Privately Published 1999.

Jacob Chacko was a technical officer commissioned in 1949 - he was one of the first to be selected for pilot training and was on the evaluation team of IAF officers that selected the ouragaon, mystere, hunter canberra gnat etc. He was also the tech offr behidn the Jet pack modification of C-119 packets.

he has bought out a 400 page large format autobiography that is fullly illustrated. nearly 60% of the book is about his IAF career , the rest devoted to life after retirement and emigration to the USA.

There are some wonderful pictures - Training days, Tempests, Ouragans being transported, evaluation of Mysteres, development of HF-24 etc etc. around 30 or so. (the book in total has even more pictures but maybe not of interest to the historian).

How can you get your hands on it? Dont ask me - Its not for sale anywhere and the only copies i have seen are 'presented' ones to his friends .

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 21 Nov 2003 21:32

Extract from "Spies in the Himalayas":
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/other-spies ... layas.html

Extract from PC Lal's memoirs on the 1962 war:
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/1962-chushul-lal.html

Dung's Defence Day special: (06/11/2003)
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/spedition/6sept2003/

vinodv · Post by **vinodv** » 04 Dec 2003 11:04

Blind men of Hindustan by Gen Sunderji is also an interesting book .. though it may fall under the fiction category.

Hate to mention this in the same post but has anyone here read that novel by Anirudh Bahal called Bunker 13?? Is it any good? Technical details wise i.e.

I wish we had an indian version of Stephen Ambrose...

Vinod

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 04 Dec 2003 12:49

The Man who bombed Karachi tells '71 story
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=36551

Over 30 years after Karachi was bombed on December 4, 1971, the man who had set up the mission is telling it like it was. Former chief of Naval Staff, Adm S.M. Nanda took up the pen to tell the Navy’s take of the 1971 war with Pakistan in his memoir The Man who Bombed Karachi. ‘‘Three years ago my friends and family convinced me to write this,’’ Nanda said before the book’s release this evening.

The book is the story of a fledgling Navy, emerging from the shadow of its former British rulers and officers and seeking a worthy role in post-Independent India.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 04 Dec 2003 15:13

Someone was asking about Bunker 13..ah well atleast it got an international award...

http://us.rediff.com/news/2003/dec/04bahal.htm

Indian reporter wins Bad Sex in Fiction Award
Agencies | December 04, 2003 08:42 IST

Indian reporter Aniruddha Bahal of the tehelka fame has won a prize that he wouldn't exactly relish.

The Literary Review magazine has given him the Bad Sex in Fiction Award, thanks to a passage from his novel Bunker 13.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » 05 Dec 2003 01:16

Originally posted by Rangudu:
Check out a very good summary of the 1971 operations by Co. Jack Gill of the US National Defence University.

The 1971 India-Pakistan War: An Atlas

Warning - its a 4.76 MB PDF file.

Unfortunately, that one has rather poor and inaccurate coverage of the air and naval aspects of the war.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Dec 2003 10:41

Hamoodur Rehman Comission Report

(Complete Text in HTML)

http://www.dawn.com/report/hrc/

Volume-I - Main Report

Part-I
Chapter I (Introduction)
Chapter II

Part-II - Political Background
Chapter I
Chapter II (Political history of Pakistan from August 1947 to 7th October 1958)
Chapter III (Political history of Pakistan from October 7, 1958 to June 6, 1962)
Chapter IV (Political history of Pakistan from June 7, 1962. to March 24, 1969)
Chapter V (Closing phase of the Ayub regime)
Chapter VI (Second martial law - Yahya regime)
Annexure A
Annexure B
Chapter VII (Analysis of the intentions of General Yahya and his associates)

Part-III - International Relations
Chapter I (The importance and relevance of international relations)
Chapter II (Indo-Pak relations)
* * Pages 145 to 212 not declassified
Chapter X (Foreign press and publicity)
Chapter XI (United Nations)
Chapter XII (Conclusions)

Part-IV - Military Aspect
Chapter I (Introduction)
Chapter II (The military concept of national defence)
Chapter III (The formulation of defence plans)
Chapter IV (The evaluation of the Indian threat)
Chapter V (The state of preparedness of the armed forces)
Chapter VI (Events in East Pakistan receding Indian invasion)
Chapter VII (Narrative of events in East Pakistan from 21st November to 3rd December, 1971)
Chapter VIII (Allout war from 3rd to 17th Dec, 1971)
Chapter IX (Surrender in East Pakistan)
Chapter X (Ceasefire in West Pakistan)
Chapter XI (Higher direction of war)
Chapter XII (Conclusion)

Part-V - Misellaneous
Chapter I (The Moral Aspect)
Annexure A
Annexure B
Annexure C
Chapter II (System of selections and promotions in the services)
Chapter III (Discipline)
Chapter IV (Military and civil awards to members of armed forces)
Chapter V (Individual responsibility of certain senior army commanders)
Chapter VI (Summary and recommendations)

Volume-I Supplementary Report - Top secret
Part I. Introduction- Reasons for supp.Report.

Part II - Political Events of 1971.
Chapter I (Introduction)
Chapter II (Military action and need to negotiate)
Chapter III (Feasibility of negotiations)
Chapter IV (Civilianization of the administration)
Chapter V (The Amnesty)
Chapter VI (Bye-elections)

Part III - Military Aspect
Chapter I (Introduction)
Chapter II (Military concept of national defence)
Chapter III (The formulation of defence plans)
Annexure
Chapter IV (The evaluation of the Indian threat)
Chapter V (The state of preparedness of the armed forces)
Chapter VI (Events in East Pakistan preceding Indian invasion)
Chapter VII (Events in East Pakistan from 20th November to 3rd December, 1971)
Chapter VIII (Allout war from 3rd December, 1971)
Chapter IX (The role of the navy in East Pakistan)
Chapter X (The role of the Air Force in East Pakistan)

Part IV - Surrender In East Pakistan
Chapter I (Introduction)
Chapter II (The sequence of the signals)
Chapter III (Was Gen Niazi bound to obey an order to surrender?)
Chapter IV (Was it necessary for Gen Niazi to surrender?)
Chapter V (Negotiation and actual surrender)
Chapter VI (Denial plans and their implementation)
Chapter VII (The aftermath)

Part V - The moral aspect
Chapter I (Introduction)
Chapter II (Alleged atrocities by the Pakistan Army)
Chapter III (Professional responsibility of certain senior army commanders)
Chapter IV (Conclusion)
Chapter V (Recommendations)

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Dec 2003 11:27

Kapil, eagerly awaiting your review of this one -

THE MAN WHO BOMBED KARACHI — A MEMOIR
by Admiral S.M. Nanda
HARPERCOLLINS
RS 395; PAGES: 320

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20031222&fname=Booksb&sid=1

Half A Logbook

A dose of modesty would have been in order when the admiral decided to sit down to write this book

BHAICHAND PATEL

[img]http://www.outlookindia.com/images/book ... lign="left[/img]

What audacity! Admiral S.M. Nanda has titled his memoirs, The Man Who Bombed Karachi. Was it a solo performance? What were the others in India’s armed forces doing during the siege of Karachi in 1971? Twiddling their thumbs? Some of them lost their lives while the admiral was issuing orders from a safe distance. In any case, the decision was Indira Gandhi’s. A dose of modesty would have been in order when the admiral decided to sit down to write this book.

Readers are advised to skip the early pages which is a tedious tale of the admiral’s rise from the ranks, with a good deal of name-dropping. If you begin on page 174, you will find an interesting account of the navy’s role in the liberation of East Pakistan. It played a gallant third fiddle to the army and the iaf’s push. The navy had been completely sidelined in the 1965 India-Pakistan war and Adml Nanda ensured it did not happen again. Vikrant and its air squadrons were moved from their home on the western coast to the Bay of Bengal to blockade Dacca. Pakistan’s supply lines from the sea received a blow. The rest of the navy kept the enemy’s fleet tied up in Karachi port. Adml Nanda began his naval career in that city before Partition and used his knowledge of the harbour to advantage.

After retirement, Nanda was hoping to be posted to Australia as high commissioner. Mrs Gandhi had other ideas and put him in charge of the Shipping Corporation of India. My major frustration with the book is that...it ends there. The admiral suddenly becomes very coy. There is nothing here on how he used his contacts in the defence establishment to build a highly lucrative second career as India’s biggest arms dealer with bmws in the garage. There have been allegations of kickbacks. Now there is a story waiting to be told. Finally, I have read the book from the front to the back and I am still clueless as to what the initials in his name—S.M.—stand for.

<img src="http://www.outlookindia.com/images/sm_n ... 031222.jpg" alt="" />

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Dec 2003 12:43

http://stonebooks.com/archives/960515.shtml

Official History of the Indian Armed Forces in the Second World War, 1939-1945

The role of the Indian armed forces in World War II -- including campaigns in the East Indies, Hong Kong, Malaya, Singapore, Burma, Iraq, Iran, the Vichy-controlled Levant, British Somaliland, Abyssinia, the Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and Italy as well as duty in places like Greece, Cyprus, Aden, and Socotra Island -- is too often obscured by the generalized description of "British" operations. Similarly, while the official histories of other Allied nations -- including the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and even South Africa -- are fairly well-known and relatively accessible, the official history of India remains unfamiliar and difficult to find, even though it is in English.

That's too bad, because exerting a little effort to have a look at some of the Indian titles will be rewarded with a great deal of fresh information from a fresh perspective.

Here then is a list of the main texts of the Indian official history.

Campaigns in the Western Theater

Bharucha, P. C. The North African Campaign, 1940-1943. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1956. Somewhat spotty, with some very detailed coverage and some omissions. Good appendices with much OB material.

Pal, Dr Dharm. The Campaign in Italy, 1943-45. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1960. Solid coverage of 4th, 8th and 10th Divisions in Italy, all of which spent a great deal of time in the line. Nothing on 4th Division in Greece.

Pal, Dr Dharm. Campaign in Western Asia. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1957. Very detailed on the three invasions; less on Paiforce. Much information on OBs for Iraq, Vichy Levant, and Iran.

Prasad, Bisheshwar. East African Campaign, 1940-41. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1963. The weakest volume, it seems to have suffered from a succession of authors before being completed by the general editor. Nothing on the Indian battalions during loss of British Somaliland.

Campaigns in the Eastern Theater

Bhargava, K. D. and K. N. V. Sastri. Campaigns in South-East Asia, 1941-42. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1960. Mostly Malaya and Singapore, but significant coverge of Hong Kong and also 2/15 Punjab on Borneo.

Prasad, Bisheshwar. The Retreat from Burma, 1941-1942. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1954. Good, solid material on the loss of Burma. Besides OBs, the appendices contain a great many official documents.

Madan, N. N. The Arakan Operations, 1942-45. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1954. Probably the most difficult to find of the campaign histories. Well done with some very detailed OBs.

Prasad, S. N., K. D. Bhargava, P. N. Khera. The Reconquest of Burma, volume I: June 1942 - June 1944. Delhi(?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1958. Good information on Burma.

Khera, P. N. and S. N. Prasad. The Reconquest of Burma, volume II: June 1944 - August 1945. Delhi(?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1959. More good information on Burma.

Singh, Rahendra. Post-War Occupation Forces: Japan and South-East Asia Delhi(?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1958. Indian forces continue to get shot at in places like the Netherlands East Indies.

General War Administration and Organization

Collins, D. J. E.. The Royal Indian Navy, 1939-45. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1964.

Gupta, S. C. History of the Indian Air Force, 1933-1945. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1961.

Prasad, Bisheshwar. Defence of India: Policy and Plans. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1963. Overview of Indian defense planning.

Prasad, Bisheshwar. India and the War. Delhi: Government of India, 1966. Very basic introductory volume about the war as a whole and India's role.

Prasad, Sri Nandan. Expansion of the Armed Forces and Defence Organization, 1939-1945. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1956. Half the book recounts the expansion of the armed forces, but with an amazing lack of hard OB information. The other half discusses staff organization of the armed forces command.

Sinha, Nirmal Chandra. Indian War Economy: Supply, Industry, and Finance. Delhi(?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1962.

(There is also one on the "Technical Services" and one on "Medical Statistics".)
The quality of information and presentation in these titles varies from very good to not so good. Unfortunately, the quality of the physical product -- the paper and binding -- is uniformly poor.

<U>All are long out of print, seldom offered by used-book dealers, and difficult to locate. If found, they tend to be quite expensive (at least $100, with some rarer ones running substantially higher) and in poor condition. </U>

Reviewed 15 May 1996

whoa....anybody have even a single one of these?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 15 Dec 2003 13:06

http://www.456thbombgroup.org/biblio_2.html

The B-24 / PB4Y-1 In Combat: The World's Greatest Bomber, by Rhodes Arnold

With assistance from Alan Blue (see above) and Bob Beittling, Mr. Arnold has assembled a book that consists of mission recollections from numerous veterans, photos not to be seen elsewhere, and a very thorough listing of ship names and ship losses. Rather rare and very intriguing at many points. A section called "Mission Improbable" covers in detail the rescue of a B-24 from the Indian Air Force and its return to the States for display at the Pima Air Museum. (See related photo, bottom of page). Pima Paisano Publications, no date, but apparently around 1971.

http://www.456thbombgroup.org/crews3.html

<img src="http://www.456thbombgroup.org/images/watkins3.jpg" alt="" />

A small crew reunion at Pima Air Museum, Tucson, Arizona, in October, 1995. From left, Dr. Howard Watkins, William Lenz, Dr. Dan Sutherland and James Mayfield. This B-24 came from India as a gift in 1970.

WoI does not have a picture from this side of the B-24J

Sree · Post by **Sree** » 19 Dec 2003 11:26

Aditya:

You're right that the WoI page on the Pima Lib (HE877, when she was in IAF service) doesn't have pictures of this side -- but I freely own up to encouraging Jagan to use the ones that are there now. The ones there now are previously unpublished (which always adds value), and exclusive to WoI. Also, I thought it'd be more interesting for WoI visitors to see the side that is still in IAF colours!

Btw Rhodes Arnold, who wrote the article referenced in your post, was a USAF Reserve officer, was a member of the board of the Pima museum, and participated personally in the project of flying HE877 from India to the US. His articles on the subject, going by those I've seen, are always eminently respectful of the IAF and its personnel.

Regards,

Sree

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 16 Feb 2004 12:29

hi jagan
you are right about the IAF books.I am looking for this book do you know where I get it? if you have any lead please email me kashmir@pacifi.net.sg thanks
Infantry in India by Lt Gen V R Raghavan. Sponsored by DG Infantry. Vikas, many b&W photographs ( mainly of VC,PVC,AC winners of the Infantry regiments).The book has very brief but useful histories of the Infantry regiments of the Indian Army, with illustration of their regimental badges
Hardcover: 317 pages
Publisher: South Asia Books; 1 edition (May 1, 1997)
ISBN: 8125904840

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 08 Apr 2004 19:57

I have just finished reading the book "Komhima to Kashmir: On the Terrorist Trail" by Prakash Singh, Padmashri. The author is a retired police officer who has served in all of India's insurgencies in various capacities. He has also been DG of the BSF.

I purchased the book firstly to have a brief overview of all of India's internal conflicts and secondly to learn more about the Police/CPMFs work in this area. Considering the price I am fully satisfied. Additionally the work contains references to the political aspects throughut.

Though I have not read it, I guess this book is a police's counterpart to "Officially at Peace" By Gen Roychoudhary. Judging by the number of pages, Kohima to Kashmir is very brief compared to the same. K2K is by no means an all-encompassing info source.

The author narrates mostly on his personal experience, but also provides some commentary to brief the reader. Part-I is focussed on his interaction at the Political level while Part-II is based mostly on the ground-level issues.

First Published: 2001
Pages: 235
Photos?: Yes (4)
Colour?: Yes
Price: Rs 195
Index?: Yes

<img src="http://www.stratmag.com/issue2Aug-15/im ... 20copy.jpg" alt="" />

CONTENTS:

PART-I: ON THE WRONG SIDE OF POLITICIANS

1. Introduction: The Beginnings
2. Police-Politician Interface: A Slippery Slope
3. Uttar Pradesh: Thru Heat and Dust

PART-II ON THE TERRORIST TRAIL

4. Nagaland: The Hills Aflame
5. Naxalite Movement: The Red Terror
6. Punjab: From Kirpan to Kalashnikov
7. Assam: Brahmaputra Valley in Fermont
8. Kashmir: South Asia's Hot Spot

1. Introduction: The Beginnings

How he started his career.

2. Police-Politician Interface: A Slippery Slope

The author quotes three instance of his life when he suffered setbacks due to politicians and politics within the police. Says police in the current form was made to suit the colonialists; suggests ways to reform the police system in India. Dissapointed by criminalisation of politics.+ anti-sikh riots in UP

3. Uttar Pradesh: Thru Heat and Dust

Touches upon UP's Mafia and discusses Khalistani terrorism in UP's Terai district. The majority of the chapter is dedicated to his Ayodhya experience. Comments on Politicians.

4. Nagaland: The Hills Aflame

Insufficient reg the Naga problem through the years. The chapter is dominated by his experiences as young IB officer. Info on the beginnings of NSCN and their association with China.

5. Naxalite Movement: The Red Terror

General commentary on the Naxalite/Maoist trouble in India through the decades. I found it very useful.

6. Punjab: From Kirpan to Kalashnikov

The author was posted in the years post-Bluestar when Insurgency was changing to pure terrorism. Insight into Black Thunder, Fencing and surpringly the Bangladeshi migrant problem.

7. Assam: Brahmaputra Valley in Fermont

AASU, UFLA, bangladeshi invasion of India and the 1999 elections.

8. Kashmir: South Asia's Hot Spot

Pre militancy days, Hazratbal incident, foreign fighters, Kargil, IC-814 Hijacking.

Links:

http://www.hvk.org/hvk/articles/1001/363.html
http://www.stratmag.com/issue2Aug-15/page09.htm

klemen · Post by **klemen** » 29 Apr 2004 20:51

Zivjo Aditya!

whoa....anybody have even a single one of these?

I have here at home photocopies of some chapters from Bhargava, K. D. and K. N. V. Sastri. Campaigns in South-East Asia, 1941-42. Delhi (?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1960. To be more precise the chapters that are dealing with the 2/15 Punjab on Borneo and and Indian 9th and 11th Divisions in Northern Malaya (Operation "Matador" and Kota Bahru). The material is simply great and it is even greater if you have the British Official Volumes to compare the info as it updates each other just perfectly. Well, as much as it can, that is.

There are a couple of excellent maps (no photos I am afraid, at least not in the photocopies that I have), especially the opnes depicting the movements of 2/17 Punjab in thick Borneo jungle. These guys were performing miracles there. They marched from Kuching to Singkawang and from there to Ngabang, Sanggau, Sintang and Nangapinoh from where then they paddled down the stream of some rivers to reach Kotawarangin and Sampit. They practically crossed the Borneo jungle, that was back then one of the most dangerous places in the world. One party of Indians with some medical orderlies was even send to Poetissibau where it was later captured. The Northern Malaya Chapter contains excellent info about the Indian Operations at Kota Bharu and is also boasting with two very good defence plans of the beach defence at Kota Bharu. Too bad that there are no personal accounts or any names of junior commanding officers, but hey that's the official history and usually you cannot get such type of information there. What I did find from these pages is that there exists somewhere out there the divisional history of 11th Indian Division in Malaya written by Colonel A.M.J. Harrison. I wasn't aware of this this book, did you? If so, does anyone know where might it be obtained? It looked everywhere (even the British Library) but it is like non-existent. What about 9th Indian Division?

Anyway if the rest of the info is as detailed as these then these are certainly one of the best official volumes that I have ever read. They tend to go as a certain points even in more detailed details as the British official volume, mostly because most of the units in Northern Malaya were Indian and the British battalions mostly entered the battle after Slim River. The chapter about Kota Bharu si certainly better and more detailed in Indian than in the British official volume, that's for sure.

I also have the chapter from Singh, Rahendra. Post-War Occupation Forces: Japan and South-East Asia Delhi(?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section, 1958, whichndeals with the post-war occupation duties of Indian troops in Thailand, French Indochina, Java and Sumatra. Especially the lattest chapter about Sumatra (and the one about French Indochina) I wholeheartedly recommend to anyone interested in this period of Indian military history. Very rare and little known topics. I was a bit disappointed about the Java chapter but for more information about what was going on there you need to look for the divisional histories of 5th and 23rd Divisions. The lattest contains several top-notch maps.

Unfortunately none of these books seem to be available at any bookshops. I tried everywhere but all in vain. Though I have found Singh, Rahendra. Post-War Occupation Forces: Japan and South-East Asia Delhi(?): Combined Inter-services Historical Section 1958, in one of the bookshops in Rangoon (Burma) for sale (ca. 25$), but back then opted not to buy it, a decision I regret most bitterly now.

I hope this hels a bit.

By the way: I was wondering… One of you mentioned that several regiments have published their regimental histories. Does anyone know if there exists the regimental histories Dogra, Frontier Force, Baluch and Hyderabad State Infantry? I would dearly like to read one of these regimental histories to obtain some material about 3/17 Dogra, 1/13 Frontier Force Rifles, 2/12 Frontier Force Rifles,1 Hyderabad State Infantry and 2/10 Baluch activities during the first hours at Kota Bharu, Sabak and Bachkok on the 7th of December 1941. Any help is appreciated.

Maybe we could even make a list of all Indian divisional and regimental histories, eh?

Best wishes,

Klemen

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 30 Apr 2004 12:20

I think both Dogra Regt and frontir force published thier official histories - FF should be available in Pakistan. A book seller contact of mine sells it for around 18$ + postage..let me know if interested I will give you his id.

Div Histories - I have seen WW2 editions for Red Eagles (4 Div) and Ball of Fire (5 Div). Ball of fire is now available online and is linked from BR>Landforces>Army>History>WW2 section. Post Independence, only Red Eagles have published thier history.

i have half of the WW2 books in question, but all of them in bad condition, moth eaten etc..

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 30 Apr 2004 20:19

Klemen the 3/17th became the 3rd Dogras if i am not mistaken.
If you have any questions about the Dogras you can e-mail me at sachmath@yahoo.co.uk

Shishir · Post by **Shishir** » 30 Apr 2004 21:14

Originally posted by Jagan:
I think both Dogra Regt and frontir force published thier official histories - FF should be available in Pakistan. A book seller contact of mine sells it for around 18$ + postage..let me know if interested I will give you his id.

Div Histories - I have seen WW2 editions for Red Eagles (4 Div) and Ball of Fire (5 Div). Ball of fire is now available online and is linked from BR>Landforces>Army>History>WW2 section. Post Independence, only Red Eagles have published thier history.

i have half of the WW2 books in question, but all of them in bad condition, moth eaten etc..

How do you obtain the regimental/Div histories? Do you go through Army HQ?

Also in the BR Book section -
1. Is "Third and Ninth Gorkhas" an official army publication?
2. I did not see PC Lal's book on the IAF as well as Gaurav Sawant's 'Dispatches from Kargil'. Are they still available?

Thanks

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 30 Apr 2004 21:21

Originally posted by shishir:
How do you obtain the regimental/Div histories? Do you go through Army HQ?

Also in the BR Book section -
1. Is "Third and Ninth Gorkhas" an official army publication?
2. I did not see PC Lal's book on the IAF as well as Gaurav Sawant's 'Dispatches from Kargil'. Are they still available?

Shishir,

Most of the regimental / div histories were published commercially by publishers. The 4 Div history was published by Vision publishers , etc etc. PC Lals book is out of print - its difficult to get hold of a copy now. However Sawants book should be available.

-J

Shishir · Post by **Shishir** » 30 Apr 2004 21:36

Jagan,
Thanks for the information. You mention that the Reg/Div histories "were" published by X.. Does that mean that they are no longer published? Do the Regimental centers maintain copies which can be purchased by the general public? Also do you know if the Para Regt have their own Reg history?
Also can you answer my previous Q abt the 3rd and 9th Gorkhas?

Sorry abt all the questions and appreciate your help.

Thanks,
-Shishir

klemen · Post by **klemen** » 30 Apr 2004 21:44

Zivjo Jagan,

I think both Dogra Regt and frontir force published thier official histories - FF should be available in Pakistan. A book seller contact of mine sells it for around 18$ + postage..let me know if interested I will give you his id.

Really? Also the Dogra Regiment? I would very much like to get my hands on this regimental history especially if it contains also any valuable and above all detailed (!!!)information about 3/17 Dogra from Kota Bahru and Malaya 1941-1942. I hope it is not any of those short regimental histories on thirty pages that look more a brochure than a book.

Div Histories - I have seen WW2 editions for Red Eagles (4 Div) and Ball of Fire (5 Div). Ball of fire is now available online and is linked from BR>Landforces>Army>History>WW2 section. Post Independence, only Red Eagles have published thier history.

Yes, I saw. I read the book with great interest, especially the chapter(s) about the 5th Indian Division's performance in Italian East Africa 1940-41. Great stuff.

lp,

Klemen