Poll: Renaming of Pakistan thread (pls read and vote)

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 12 May 2011 03:52

shiv wrote: The Pakistan military is particular problem that we need to separately address with teh feeble power in our hands (as forum members). One method is to change a name. And if the name does not work it can be changed to something else or back top the original. Calling for a "freezing" of the current name is IMO a desire to sit in a comfort zone when we really should be moving

I agree that we need to link pakistan, military and terror in one simple title.

My proposal is "Pakistan - Military Sponsored Terrorism" or

"Pakistan - Military Controlled Terrorism" or

Abbreviations like TSP can only be understood by geeks..

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 12 May 2011 04:08

ShauryaT wrote: I agree that we need to link pakistan, military and terror in one simple title.
My proposal is "Pakistan - Military Sponsored Terrorism"

Abbreviations like TSP can only be understood by geeks..

I agree. It's not like TSP has much currency in search engines or anything.
Too long for a thread title IMO but how about something on the lines of - Garrison Pakistan: a country sized terrorist camp!
I think the word Garrison resonates strongly especially with recent events and the frequent use of "garrison town".

yogi · Post by **yogi** » 12 May 2011 04:31

Terrorist Haven of Tribal Pakistan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 05:39

Manny wrote:It's important we have "Terrorist State of Pakistan" .

The acronym was crated long before the current thread got its name. The Pakistan thread "Terroris Islamic Republic of Pakistan-news and discussion" does nothing to promote the name TSP and it will remain untouched whatever the name of the thread. The letters TSP have no connection with this issue.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 05:40

ShauryaT wrote: My proposal is "Pakistan - Military Sponsored Terrorism" or

"Pakistan - Military Controlled Terrorism" or

Abbreviations like TSP can only be understood by geeks..

Good stuff. The next time I start a Pakistan thread I am going to give it a name along these lines.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 05:42

anjan wrote: Abbreviations like TSP can only be understood by geeks..

True. Outside of BRF "TSP" is virtually unknown and Google doesn't care for it much.

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 12 May 2011 05:46

I disagree with the name change. Why mess with something that works currently and conveys what Pakistan is.

Plus addition of non-english words is a big no-no both for search engines and for a western audience.
If you do intend to change the name in the future, put a few name options on the ballot and ask people to vote on those.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 06:02

VenkataS wrote: Plus addition of non-english words is a big no-no both for search engines and for a western audience.
If you do intend to change the name in the future, put a few name options on the ballot and ask people to vote on those.

Have you checked how well the current name scores in search engines? It all english and welll witing the comfort xones of English speaking peoples. BRF gets no first page search engine hits hits from the following words
1) terrorist
2) Pakistan
3) Islamic

The search engine priority was a requirement for the late 1900s and early 2000 when we wanted to link terror with Pakistan.

Even now the words "terrorist Pakistan" does not get BRF in the first 3 pages at least.

Its NOT about English speaking people
Its NOT about search engine ranking

It's about popularizing a better understanding of Pakistan among those who visit BRF - many of whom are still stuck with the well known connection between Pakistan and terror and have not moved ahead to link the terror of Pakistan with the military. We need to do that on BRF first. Not among random English speaking people searching the Internet.

How many BRFites understand why terror is necessary for the Pakistan military? How many BRFites can say how the Pakistan military has benefited from terror? Why worry about "English speaking people" when we remain mired in wel known territory?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 May 2011 06:03

shiv wrote: ... Outside of BRF "TSP" is virtually unknown and Google doesn't care for it much.

I disagree, at least in my experience. I use it quite often, outside BRF and, IMO, it has more exposure than some think. As said before, http://www.abbreviations.com/TSP has it.

Just check out "terrorist state of pakistan" in google..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 06:09

Amber G. wrote:
shiv wrote: ... Outside of BRF "TSP" is virtually unknown and Google doesn't care for it much.
I disagree, at least in my experience. I use it quite often, outside BRF and, IMO, it has more exposure than some think.

AmberG - everyone knows the words "Terrorist State" and links it with Pakistan. That is what i am saying. It is well known. The acronym is not well known. Everyone agrees when I say Terrorist Stare of Pakistan. Say "TSP" outside a BRF circle and you get a blank stare. And here is the google search for TSP

TSP

The idea for the name change is not going to stop linking Pakistan with terror. The idea is to add the military's name to that. If BRF dies tomorrow the link of Pakistan to terror will not go away. But at least a few thousand Indians will open their eyes about the military terror link of Pakistan if we use a new name.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 06:14

I suggest the name

"Pakistan (TSP): Military-Terror nexus - news and discussion"

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 06:28

And guess what people? Who'd a thunk it? Google for military-terror nexus and Indian army and "Hindutva" comes out on page 1 of Google. On Yahoo - Pakistan gets rank 1, but India and Hindutva get 2 and 3. I think this needs to be changed by every possible mechanism.

Why are we stuck in the past and demanding that we stick to the past ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 06:35

On Google, India is ranked higher than Pakistan on "Military Sponsored Terrorism". All English words friendly to angrez-pasand peoples.

What are we doing? Or what do we imagine that we are achieving being "ahead of curve" and all that? What curve?

BRF has an indirect effect on "information space" by educating thousands of literate Indians to go out and spread the word from innumerable blogs and tweets. But unless BRF takes the lead in providing current info to its own readers it will make no difference.

Kamboja · Post by **Kamboja** » 12 May 2011 06:49

I would vote for something simple yet essential.

'Pakistan is the problem'

Start to enter those words into Google and see how quickly Google guesses what you mean. Moreover, that phrase captures something that a growing number of people worldwide are beginning to realize.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 06:57

Kamboja wrote:I would vote for something simple yet essential.

'Pakistan is the problem'

Start to enter those words into Google and see how quickly Google guesses what you mean. Moreover, that phrase captures something that a growing number of people worldwide are beginning to realize.

Kamboja. I don't think anyone searches for any specific BRF type words in search engines. We should IMO worry less about search engine rankings and worry more about creating connections in the minds of people who visit BR who then spread the word in forums, blogs and tweets.

The Pakistan military and its terror links are a problem. It is amazing that the Indian military gets search engine rankings for terror. None of BRFs efforts get a direct ranking.

At best we can only play an indirect role on search engine rankings by helping to make the connections. Unless we create the military-terror connection as a discussion point that gets ported to other forums, blogs and twitter we will not be having the effect we can have.

The idea that Pakisatn is a problem and Pakistan is linked to terror is now well known. We need to help create the enw connections by linking the Pakistan army with terrorism. That link should be visible in the title of the thread on he forum.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 07:25

The USA has the biggest media apparatus in the world.

The biggest terrorist attack on the US was 9-11. Osama bin Laden was the biggest terrorist for the USA.

Osama bin Laden was killed by the US in Pakistan, which gave him shelter. In the US media, the link of Pakistan to terror is complete.

For India the Pakistan military is the biggest terrorist sponsor.

The inflitration of jihadis in 1947, 1965 and 1999 were sponsored by the Paki military
The Kashmir insurgency was fed by military trained Pakistanis
26/11, Parliament attack and Kaluchak were Pak military operations

But yet the Pakistan military is an "ally of the US and has been getting US $ 1.5 billion plus a year.

Exactly what do we gain by failing to push the Pak military-terror connection? We are inadvertently sticking to the US line. The US itself has come so far as to connect Pak with terror. We need to fill the internet with the connections that the Pakistan military has with terror. I cannot see any reason for doubt or hesitation.

You can still change your vote.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 May 2011 08:51

shiv wrote:I suggest the name

"Pakistan (TSP): Military-Terror nexus - news and discussion"

Nexus just means there is a connection between the military and terror(-ists). It however does not necessarily imply they are one and the same!

"Pakistan (TSP): Terrorist Army Qaeda - news and discussion"

Qaeda means Base in Arabic and "Al Qaeda" is today one of the world's best known expressions! So it reads as "Pakistan: Terrorist Army Base" or "Pakistan: Terrorist Army HQ".

It claims that Pakistan's main feature is that it is run by the Army.
It claims that Pakistan Army itself is a Terrorist Army
It hints that the real Al Qaeda is actually the Pakistani Army
It hints that Pakistan is Al Qaeda's actual base, and not say Afghanistan.

Basically it says to the Americans, that if you are looking to hunt for Al Qaeda go to Pakistan, but you can't use the Pakistani Army for the purpose, as they themselves are terrorists and in cohorts with Al Qaeda, or in fact the puppeteers of Al Qaeda. We want to give Americans the message that Pakistani Army itself is in fact its biggest enemy! We should try to bring "Pakistan, Terrorist, Army, Al Qaeda" together in one expression, especially in view of the newest happenings.

To the Indians it says that you don't have a normal country neighboring ours, but rather a country that is run by a Terrorist Army, and hence not to be trusted or appeased! It says that for India, our Al Qaeda is the Pakistani Army, and we should go after it like the Americans go after Al Qaeda!

Of course, Indians or even the West is not used to use the word Qaeda in this way - meaning "base" or "HQ" or "Central"! But this can change with time. BTW Indians use the word Qaeda, especially in the North, to refer to the Alphabet Book - the Basics!

It gives the right message and it is search engine optimized!

BTW The acronym would be PTAQ! P'TAQ means filth in Klingonese!

In fact, it is the most used curse word in Klingonese. Also considering how many patakas go off in Pakistan, it is truly the land of P'TAQ!

Now shouldn't Indians be thinking a bit like Klingons in the near future? Hain ji?

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 12 May 2011 09:22

If the thread title is to create increased awareness among Indians, then should'nt the war through a thousand cuts be somehow part of the title as well, after all it is part of the Pak Army's jihadi strategy.

'Pakistan: Bandit Army Land fostering a 1000 cuts' or 'Pakistan: Bandit Army Land Trading in 1000 cuts' or 'Pakistan: BAL- Dalaal'.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 May 2011 09:27

Klaus wrote:If the thread title is to create increased awareness among Indians, then should'nt the war through a thousand cuts be somehow part of the title as well, after all it is part of the Pak Army's jihadi strategy.

'Pakistan: Bandit Army Land fostering a 1000 cuts' or 'Pakistan: Bandit Army Land Trading in 1000 cuts' or 'Pakistan: BAL- Dalaal'.

The word "Bandit" is a bit romanticized! Robin Hood was a bandit! We even had our own Bandit Queen - Phullan Devi!

Just saying!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 09:28

Klaus wrote:If the thread title is to create increased awareness among Indians, .

The title is to increase awareness among BRFites.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 12 May 2011 09:44

^^^ In that case, we can go for a Hindi thread title, it is an Indian forum and we are not after search engine hits from West, rather the thread is about highlighting the link between PA and terrorists.

'Pakistan: Atankwadi Jangsippah'. Caters to both Hindi and Urdu speakers, across India and ME. People searching Atank and Sippah will get this thread in their search results, so will people searching jang.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 09:52

Klaus wrote:^^^ In that case, we can go for a Hindi thread title, it is an Indian forum and we are not after search engine hits from West, rather the thread is about highlighting the link between PA and terrorists.

'Pakistan: Atankwadi Jangsippah'. Caters to both Hindi and Urdu speakers, across India and ME. People searching Atank and Sippah will get this thread in their search results, so will people searching jang.

I like the name - but it won't help BRFites. This should be less about search engine hiits and more about increasing the general level of awareness of BRFites about exactly who the enemy is. It's not Al Qaeda. It is the Pakistan military. We know Pakistan is a terrorist nation. That is NOT because of Al Qaeda. It is the Pakistan military that makes it so.

I would not worry about search engine hits instantly because if we create the association the hits will appear in due course. The Pakistan military should appear along with any search for terrorism. We need to foster that. We cannot do that unless we get a whole lot of people to make that connection. The only people whom we can request to help create that connection are BRFites. For BRFites to consistently connect terrorism with the Pakistan military we need a catchy title that allows them to see it as soon as they see the thread.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 May 2011 10:02

shiv wrote:
Klaus wrote:If the thread title is to create increased awareness among Indians, .
The title is to increase awareness among BRFites.

shiv saar,
IMHO, that would be preaching to the choir! 99.9999% BRFites are already convinced that Pakistani Army is the main sponsor of terror in India!

The aim should be to change world opinion on Pakistan, which accepts Pakistani Army as a partner in their Global War on Terror! For that Search Engine Rankings are very important!

The "title" is the primary means of influencing those rankings (any discussion on this should be elsewhere)! Let's not forget that the content of the posts too have some work to do to convince people, and that it is not simply the job of the title only! For humans, the link title can be "Pakistan" and it would suffice. For search bots, we need to make it a lot more explicit!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 May 2011 10:11

RajeshA wrote: IMHO, that would be preaching to the choir! 99.9999% BRFites are already convinced that Pakistani Army is the main sponsor of terror in India!

My observations do not agree with your statement. If you noticed - after Osammy was hit - BRF used to have about 20 members and 150 guests reading. So the ratio of lurkers to member could be as high as 80%. A huge percentage of BRFites are lurkers whose opinions we do not know and cannot know.

But whatever their opinions might be we could openly attempt to influence those opinions by a clear bias in the title as opposed to a comfortable assumption they they all know

The only argument then would be whether we are having any effect at all on those opinions. But if we did not do it we cannt assume that we did everything possible to help make the link between the Pakistan military and terror.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 12 May 2011 12:21

As I wrote in one of my earlier posts in this thread, David Frum was an idiot when he included Iraq, Iran and North Korea in the same "Axis of Evil", but he was rather clever with the phrase (which he brought back after its widespread use in WWII). This phrase actually caught-on again, during the Bush-43 administration, and as an exercise in branding, it was a success (even though on a factual basis, it was faulty).

I think a similar opportunity exists for us, with the phrase "Nexus of Evil", which is quite appropos, and which opens-up the possibilities for all kinds of relevant explanations of the monster that is the "TSP".

I also think that the specific mentionning of the TSPA would be helpful, because it's truly the kernel of the problem, and because it is the chief interface that the US has with the TSP -- which is problematic for everyone, the bulk of Pakistanis included.

Therefore, I propose the following....

Terrorist Army of Pakistan - Nexus of Evil

It says "Terrorist" and "Pakistan" and specifically includes "Army", plus the phrase "Nexus of Evil", which works on many levels, IMHO. The acronym would be "TAPNoE"

Whatever happens with these suggestions, I hope we can go though at least a couple of rounds of voting, in the interest of getting it right (because I think this could be important).

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 May 2011 12:28

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote: Therefore, I propose the following....
Terrorist Army of Pakistan - Nexus of Evil

-1.

Please don't exclude Pakis who don't work for their military.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 May 2011 12:51

Pakistan Army - Taleban - Al-Qaeda: Axis of Terror

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 12 May 2011 14:12

I like the name by itself. But would suggest one minor addition. Why not add the word 'Stable' to TSP? This is becquse the biggest stumbling block in peoples perspective on Pakistan is that somehow a 'Stable' Pakistan is good for India and the worlds interests..and as a result India should give up Kashmir, Red Fort, Nukes, Civil Nuke Plants, economic development and become some sort of a Banana or Mango republic to be an == to Pakistan.

While the fact is opposite..Pakistan is one of the most stable countries in the world. Imagine which country in the world has done all what Porkistan has done including nuke proliferation, genocide, harboring terrorists and so on than ay other and got MUNNA status, Planes, hardware, economic benefits. Most countries that did or even suggest it have been bombed to smithereens or sanctioned to isolation..Pakistan is indeed the most stable of Countries the world has seen.

So i suggest the 'Stable Terrorist Republic of Islam: Pakistan. Acronym: STRIP.

Mauryan · Post by **Mauryan** » 12 May 2011 15:08

TSP (Terrorist State of Pakistan) is just fine with me. But if the call is for name change, then I would suggest, "Islamic Terroristan". Terroristan is gaining rapid popularity in times to come after OBL assassination.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 12 May 2011 15:29

harbans wrote: So i suggest the 'Stable Terrorist Republic of Islam: Pakistan. Acronym: STRIP.

Second this name suggestion. In fact, it is paradoxical terms like these that lead to channelisation of the righteous anger of the masses, all of whom follow the MSM, there will be indignation on seeing such a term and pleasant surprise when they go through the contents of the thread. Piskologically has the intended effect what Shiv saar might be looking for!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 May 2011 16:33

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote: Terrorist Army of Pakistan - Nexus of Evil

Ravi, we cannot overlook the fact that the entire state (not only the Army) is terroristic in nature when it comes to India. PA, ISI, bureaucrats, police, politicians, mullah, society at large . . .you name them, they are all terrorists. Let us not put non-Army on a high pedestal, even by implication.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 12 May 2011 16:35

Pakistan- Islamic Republic of Terrorism

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 12 May 2011 16:50

Terror Exporting Rouge Republic Of Renegades = Pakistan

With acronym of : TERROR == Pakistan

Aryavarta · Post by **Aryavarta** » 12 May 2011 19:26

How about
Pakistani Punjab and Confederated States

Or Punjab-Sindh-Balochistan News and Discussions

or Punjabi (TSP) Kabila-Sindh-Balochistan News and Discussions

The idea is to show the Punjabi domination and the loosely tied states that make the rump of Pakistan in an attempt to promote the possibility of it being broken up.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 12 May 2011 19:28

How about a thread title of…

Industrial Terror Complex of Pakistan – Nexus of Evil (53 characters long, so it will fit within existing thread title length limits.)

We can use the acronym “ITCOP” or "ITCoP", which is pronounceable, and which at present is not listed in “Dictionary dot com” (so it will be all ours!).

We could interchange it with the use of “NoE”, in order to help the meme catch on (although the phrase "Nexus of Evil" is already in use online).

Vril · Post by **Vril** » 12 May 2011 19:50

We should name how we want pakistan to be in future.

We had a title TSP because we knew it was a terrorist state. Eventually, world now knows that pakistan is a terrorist state. something to do with law of attraction and focusing collective energies.

i think consensus should be on how we want pakistan to be and name it accordingly.
i want it broken into smaller independent states.

For me it would be Superficially bonded baluchistan, pashtunistan, sindhistan and remaining stan or something which suggests the same.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 May 2011 20:10

Initially I thought TSP name was apt. However on second thoughts why not change and try to convey it better.
It has been on BRF for few years. For us brfites name will not matter as we know it well.
There are myriad definitions for TSP and one of them is terrorist state of pakistan.(over 54)
The name should be simple and easy. Some of brfites have mentioned names. they all appear to be long or a bit difficult to pronounce for mango abduls.
why not
TERRORISTAN- It is in english, has local flavour to it. simple and conveys the meaning. No abbreviations. Instant connection to pakistan for aam abdul.

JMTs.

edited- I voted for change as I agree with Shiv.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 12 May 2011 20:46

Pakistan – A Recipe for Atrocity (PAR4A)

I like that it rhymes.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 May 2011 20:51

SSridhar wrote:
Ravi Karumanchiri wrote: Terrorist Army of Pakistan - Nexus of Evil
Ravi, we cannot overlook the fact that the entire state (not only the Army) is terroristic in nature when it comes to India. PA, ISI, bureaucrats, police, politicians, mullah, society at large . . .you name them, they are all terrorists. Let us not put non-Army on a high pedestal, even by implication.

Once ISI/Army are fixed, the rest will follow suit.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 May 2011 22:06

how about "Terror Central : The Military State of Pakistan"

The name of the Pakistan discussion thread should be changed