The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Under the contract, the first four to six Mirages will be upgraded in France, while the rest will be retrofitted in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) with transfer of technology from the French companies.
This means the overall Mirage upgrade package, including the fire-and-forget MICA missiles and the infrastructure build-up at HAL, will eventually cross the Rs 15,000-crore mark.
MBDA will help deliver a variety of missiles for the upgrade.
The upgrade includes replacing the avionics with two mission computers, an advanced navigation system, and pulse doppler radar that can look down to detect targets through clutter out to 70 nautical miles.
The new glass cockpit will come with two lateral displays and an advanced head-down display. The upgraded radar warning receiver will have an instantaneous wide bank receiver and an integrated missile approach warning receiver that can provide continuous information on time to impact. A new jammer will be able to handle multiple surveillance acquisition radars. Other new gear will include a digital video recorder, data transfer system, and simulation systems.
The upgraded aircraft will be able to carry four beyond-visual-range missiles and other missiles and smart ammunition.
This is a good deal. I had seen some footage of this aircraft on youtube and realized there is more to it than meets the eye about it. There is pretty much a lot the aircraft can do.
3 billion on Mirage Upgrade???? thats too much,we are getting 126 New aircraft for 10 billion inclusive of TOT,what new TOT will we get from upgrading the mirages?,instead we may get 30-40 Typhoons or Rafale for that price.if upgraded mirages can be used for 2 decades,Typhoon or rafale can be used for 3-4 decades.
it just doesn't go down well.
narayana wrote:3 billion on Mirage Upgrade???? thats too much,we are getting 126 New aircraft for 10 billion inclusive of TOT,what new TOT will we get from upgrading the mirages?,instead we may get 30-40 Typhoons or Rafale for that price.if upgraded mirages can be used for 2 decades,Typhoon or rafale can be used for 3-4 decades.
it just doesn't go down well.
narayana wrote:3 billion on Mirage Upgrade???? thats too much,we are getting 126 New aircraft for 10 billion inclusive of TOT,what new TOT will we get from upgrading the mirages?,instead we may get 30-40 Typhoons or Rafale for that price.if upgraded mirages can be used for 2 decades,Typhoon or rafale can be used for 3-4 decades.
it just doesn't go down well.
$10 billion is just an initial target budget set for the 126 MRCA deal. The actual deal will come out to be a lot more than that when all the details are added up over the years (in multi-phase parts). Probably the real deal for 126 MRCA is closer to $20 billion when TOT, production license, infrastructure setup, weapons, training, etc are all included.
Chacko, are there any specific proposals on the table or already being implemented, or is it just talk? My understanding was the India was not aggressively pushing Defence cooperation under pressure from Unkil/TSP. Please throw some light on this issue if you can. Thanks.
Chacko, are there any specific proposals on the table or already being implemented, or is it just talk? My understanding was the India was not aggressively pushing Defence cooperation under pressure from Unkil/TSP. Please throw some light on this issue if you can. Thanks.
Possibly we may sell weapons. we sell such to Nepal, Sri lanka, Maldives etc. The Q was asked to the Afghan visitor. He siad "it is to be discussed." People stopped travelling for "just talks."
On Unkil/TSP:
When mian biwi raji, to kya karega kaji. Afghans traditionally look at India and detest Pakistanis. So, neither Pakis nor Khan can force Afghans to stop cooperate with us. They may delay.
When mian biwi raji, to kya karega kaji. Afghans traditionally look at India and detest Pakistanis. So, neither Pakis nor Khan can force Afghans to stop cooperate with us. They may delay.
Thanks. I think I read a report recently in the Indian Express, where they quoted a GOI official saying, we will wait for Afghanistan to ask for help in Defence & not offer any assistance without them asking. I was hoping to see if there was a change from Afghanistan's side.
US has welcomed India's willingness to help Afghanistan build capabilities of its security forces in accordance with Kabul's priorities and termed the development as a "positive thing." "We do not have any specifics on this, but if this is about helping to train Afghan national security forces, tha
t is a positive thing," Pentagon spokesman Col Dave Lapan told reporters during an off-camera briefing.
Lapan was responding to questions on Indian Defence Minister A K Antony's meeting with his Afghan counterpart Abdul Rahim Wardak in New Delhi yesterday during which the two discussed the security situation in the region.
"Well, I do not know about the specific report. But our point has always been that the more support we can get in the training mission from NATO, other allies, we welcome it," Lapan said
US and NATO is in a bad shape in Afghanistan and they want to move out quickly so that they have less body bags to carry back home , any help from India or any country for Afghanistan is welcome and its in our interest to help the Afghans.
arunsrinivasan wrote:^^ Agreed, my main concern is whether we are being aggressive enough in supporting the Afghan Army? We could do a lot to support them ... but are we?
Aggressive as in stationing peace keepers and fighting the Talibs/ISI etc well atleast the stated position of GOI is they will help in reconstruction and building effort of Afghanistan that would generate more good will and really help the war ravaged people.
If we end up in direct operation then it will be ISI proxy/Talib-India war there and we will end up getting more body bags , its best avoided atm.
@Chackoji, I dont think that says anything either ways. Because they will howl even when India is not doing anything e.g. Baluchistan ... for they live in la-la land. My concerns are a result of news reports that I have read saying ... we are going slow in supporting Afghanistan Army, while TSPA has struck a deal with Hamid Karzai to provide training to Afghanistan. Sorry for going OT... maybe this should be moved to the Afghanistan thread.
@ Austin, sorry if I was not clear earlier. By aggressive support I only meant training, building long term institutional relationships with Afghan Army, providing equipment etc. I dont think India should get involved in any fighting directly or indirectly at this stage in Afghanistan.
but if this is about helping to train Afghan national security forces, tha
t is a positive thing," Pentagon spokesman Col Dave Lapan told reporters during an off-camera briefing
Well, I do not know about the specific report. But our point has always been that the more support we can get in the training mission from NATO, other allies, we welcome it," Lapan said
Typical business minded Unkil...you train them and we reserve the right to sell weapons...hain ji ?
Austin wrote:US and NATO is in a bad shape in Afghanistan and they want to move out quickly so that they have less body bags to carry back home , any help from India or any country for Afghanistan is welcome and its in our interest to help the Afghans.
The 120k troops thingy was a non starter from the beginning apparently even though it is on paper an excellent strategy. Iran was an issue. US snubbed us. But imo US is just saying this in the media - its a spokesperson who stated this, not an actual high up official.
We have been training ANA in CA countries as well as in INdia to keep our personel safe. wikipees said US even refused arming, training of ANA. I think this is happening without the approval of the US, the indian officials said that Afg is a free country and can decide whatever they like. But ANA professionalism is a big worry for everyone. Desi's are trying to "stiffen them up".
Lets just say we have plenty of things going on with Afg.
One thing that stood out was that he said stuff like "blue water navy", "china is getting aircraft carriers", "two new divisions for IA" all extempore, so it seems like he is aware of the situation. (Sorry but I have low expectations)
Good thing he said was that there is no cap on defense expenditure and we are still spending less than 3% of GDP. There wont be any impact on economy. So expect more and more goodies for the forces.
His attitude is good, While his visit to japan, Japanese PM asked him how to contain China. His reply was to concentrate on the economy and build up military capability which is what India is doing now. He is not that incompetent, the way he is being projected.
One thing that stood out was that he said stuff like "blue water navy", "china is getting aircraft carriers", "two new divisions for IA" all extempore, so it seems like he is aware of the situation. (Sorry but I have low expectations)
As much the same word as used by CNS Adm Mehta 2 years back , finally it has drawn in Delli that they cant compete with china directly in Mil Expenditure and they need to develop asymmetric capability to deal with China , Delhi has long been saying 3 % is what they need to spend but some how it has stayed below that level and inadequate planning and delayed procurement is more of concern then actual defence expenditure figures.
vishnu.nv wrote:<SNIP>Wish he could solve the Artillery saga
That would be the ultimate lungo dance moment...
forget SOLVING, even if couple of Artillery guns (say M777 types) start flowing it is a Lungi Dance moment.
Bradmins, can we have a Lungi Dance Smilie soon, probably St Antony is waiting for BR to have this Smilie!!!
vishnu.nv wrote:. He is not that incompetent, the way he is being projected.
Somehow a reserved polite man in India is thought to be incomptent ... Without being political, I believe people who think that MMS is incompetent couldn't be further away from the truth.
He is one one of the MOST revered politicians and statesman outside of India. He is called "the leader that leaders love". And quite frankly when I look around world leaders I don't find anybody who understands economics as keenly as PM Manmohan Singh.
indranilroy wrote:
He is one one of the MOST revered politicians and statesman outside of India. He is called "the leader that leaders love". And quite frankly when I look around world leaders I don't find anybody who understands economics as keenly as PM Manmohan Singh.
vishnu.nv wrote:. He is not that incompetent, the way he is being projected.
Somehow a reserved polite man in India is thought to be incomptent ... Without being political, I believe people who think that MMS is incompetent couldn't be further away from the truth.
He is one one of the MOST revered politicians and statesman outside of India. He is called "the leader that leaders love". And quite frankly when I look around world leaders I don't find anybody who understands economics as keenly as PM Manmohan Singh.
I will call you out on the bullshit you are peddling. Can you care to elaborate why PM is not incompetent? What are his achievements, and perceived accomplishments?
I think he is one of those guys who gets respected by outsiders because they perceive his inaction as Chankiyan strategy. Also, somebody good in an academic field is not always equal to a Good Leader.
EDIT: Admins, sorry for OT, will move future posts to appropriate thread.
One thing that stood out was that he said stuff like "blue water navy", "china is getting aircraft carriers", "two new divisions for IA" all extempore, so it seems like he is aware of the situation. (Sorry but I have low expectations)
Wow! Way to go to improve the Nation's morale. After reading it, I am sure the jawan posted at the border would have felt very secure.
Even though I personally respect him in general, I think this is a very stupid remark. If our own PM does public dhoti shivering, how can one blame the general public. When he said that China is building AC carriers, would it have cost him to mention that IN already operates one and is getting 2 more shortly?
Gaur wrote: Wow! Way to go to improve the Nation's morale. After reading it, I am sure the jawan posted at the border would have felt very secure.
Even though I personally respect him in general, I think this is a very stupid remark. If our own PM does public dhoti shivering, how can one blame the general public. When he said that China is building AC carriers, would it have cost him to mention that IN already operates one and is getting 2 more shortly?
Very Dhimi attitude of MMS... I don't see any chankian in this... after this if he had cleared couple of pending deals and made a statement about providing all necessary equipment to Jawans ityaadi, he would have earned people's respect!!!
Why do you think Pakis are howlering?
Wow! Way to go to improve the Nation's morale. After reading it, I am sure the jawan posted at the border would have felt very secure. 