Indian Naval Discussion

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 26 May 2011 19:47

IMO, EF or Rafale wins, Indian will not buy Sea gripen.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 May 2011 20:25

The NLCA is going to be available a lot sooner when compared with the Sea Gripen. That what is the need of even considering the Sea Gripen for IN requirement.

In addition there is no reason why a Mk2 cant be developed for the NLCA.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 26 May 2011 20:45

Pratyush wrote:The NLCA is going to be available a lot sooner when compared with the Sea Gripen. That what is the need of even considering the Sea Gripen for IN requirement.

In addition there is no reason why a Mk2 cant be developed for the NLCA.

I think you are confused. NLCA "is" going to be of mk2 variant. The current mk1 Naval prototype is a Naval Trainer. However, the actual single seat NLCA will "all" be of mk2 variant.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 May 2011 21:08

Juggi G wrote: India and Brazil are seen as potential customers for the Sea Gripen.[/b]

in wetdreamistan.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 27 May 2011 01:19

Indian Navy's New Stealth Frigate Launched

Rediff.com News

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 27 May 2011 13:17

INS Trikand, Talwar Class stealth frigate launched in Russia

Some more launch images

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 May 2011 14:01

Gaur wrote:

I think you are confused. NLCA "is" going to be of mk2 variant. The current mk1 Naval prototype is a Naval Trainer. However, the actual single seat NLCA will "all" be of mk2 variant.

I was under the impression that the Mk2 will be a derevative design of the NLCA. That was what the underlying assumption in my post. If that is wrong then I stand corrected.

Thanks.

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 27 May 2011 16:31

chackojoseph wrote:Indian navy to induct Kavach chaff launcher Mod II by 2013

KAVACH info -

http://ofbindia.nic.in/products/data/we ... /add_5.htm

Pratik_S · Post by **Pratik_S** » 27 May 2011 19:15

I hope this image was not posted here before.

http://angle-of-attack.blogspot.com/201 ... ditya.html

John · Post by **John** » 27 May 2011 22:33

Gaur wrote:
Pratyush wrote:The NLCA is going to be available a lot sooner when compared with the Sea Gripen. That what is the need of even considering the Sea Gripen for IN requirement.

In addition there is no reason why a Mk2 cant be developed for the NLCA.
I think you are confused. NLCA "is" going to be of mk2 variant. The current mk1 Naval prototype is a Naval Trainer. However, the actual single seat NLCA will "all" be of mk2 variant.

Sea Gripen/Naval Rafale were simply considered solely to put pressure on Russia, so that Russians don't turn out and jack up the price for 29k.
Till we get UCAV or 5th generation platform for the navy (N-MCA or PAK-FA), 29k would suffice with N-LCA replacing SHar.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 May 2011 09:14

Is there any news on the dat. of commissioning for the INS Satpura. Wiki suggests the DOC to be June / July. Has the IN announced any specific date on which she will enter service.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 May 2011 19:04

Indian Coast Guard To Have Its Own Academy
http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2011/05/i ... s-own.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 May 2011 20:50

note secondary radar mast behind island on vik. some older cvn had that thing. also peculiar girlue waist on left than entire waist made uniformly wide.deck parkung and hangers will surely be tight vs cdg of similar tonnage

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 May 2011 01:24

Hope there are no more delays in Scorpene project: France
http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... /136722/on

"This delay is the price to be paid by India to become autonomous in manufacturing the most modern submarines in the world... The modernisation effort [at Mumbai Shipyard] is showing results and we have good reasons to believe that there would not be more delays," Longuet said.

The first submarine is expected to be delivered by 2016, followed by one submarine each subsequent year.

I thought it was 2015? What gives?

Also is it confirmed that 2 or 3 more Scorpenes are being built in addition to the 6 contracted for?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 May 2011 01:33

Rakesh wrote:Also is it confirmed that 2 or 3 more Scorpenes are being built in addition to the 6 contracted for?

Answered my own question....see below...

Indian Navy Denies Seeking Three More Scorpenes
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2651172/posts

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 May 2011 12:39

^^ Dammit.... was hoping that 3 additional would be there to beef up embarrassing current SSK strength, given that the mythical second line ( P75-I) is nowhere close to even a RFP.

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 May 2011 15:28

Rakesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Also is it confirmed that 2 or 3 more Scorpenes are being built in addition to the 6 contracted for?
Answered my own question....see below...

Indian Navy Denies Seeking Three More Scorpenes
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2651172/posts

isnt that a bit dated ?

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 29 May 2011 16:32

I don't know when will IN understand the under water threat from Chinese & Pakistan Navies

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 29 May 2011 17:09

Presently PN have 6 subs & PLAN has around 70 subs and IN countering them with 14 subs what a pity.

Just look at the future Chinese are arming Pakistan to counter or neutralize India. GoI should wake up quickly or it will be very late to act

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 May 2011 20:08

kit wrote:isnt that a bit dated ?

It is six months old...so yes, a bit dated...but kinda confirms what I feared. Unfortunate...but if offered, we need to get them 3 or even 2 more. Secondly, build them @ DCNS itself. If we got two lines open...the faster we can induct them. This 2015 tamasha is pathetic.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 May 2011 22:04

the chinese can definitely hand over a few SSKs to PN if PN can find the money and people to operate them. Song SSKs for instance, which PLAN would likely want to replace with Yuan, so retire early and hand over to PN. a few Yuan too for ==.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 30 May 2011 12:54

SAAB to Bid for Indian Navy MRMR Tender
StratPost

SAAB to Bid for Indian Navy MRMR Tender
May 29, 2011
By Saurabh Joshi

Swedish defense and aerospace company SAAB is planning to offer its SAAB 2000 aircraft to the Indian Navy when it issues a Request For Proposal (RFP) for Medium Range Maritime Reconnaissance (MRMR) aircraft in the next few months.

The Indian Navy currently operates the Russian Tu-142 Bear and IL-38 aircraft, in addition to Dornier aircraft. It has also ordered eight P-8I Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft and is expected to buy an additional four.

The aircraft is built by US aviation company Boeing, which is planning to pitch a medium range ‘diet’ P-8 for the Indian Navy’s MRMR tender.

While the SAAB 2000 is being offered with the RBS-15 Anti Ship Missile and a fifth generation Selex AESA radar, what is also interesting is that SAAB is offering re-manufactured aircraft, since the company ceased production of the aircraft in 1999.

“We will take an existing SAAB 2000. We will re-manufacture it and build it up. So it will be ground zero flying hours. We will have all the warranties. We will have 35,000 flying hours. It will have 25 years of support,” said Tommy Hultin, SAAB’s Business Development Director for the program.

Hultin also says the Harpoon missile manufactured by Boeing, which India is already planning to acquire for the Indian Air Force (IAF) Jaguar and the P-8I aircraft, can also be configured on the SAAB 2000, which he points out, is one of the fastest turboprop aircraft flying.

SAAB's Offer :-

Radar : Selex Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Maritime Surveillance Radar with long range search of 200 nautical miles. The interrogator functions of the Identification Friend-or-Foe (IFF) capability can be customized. The radar is paired with a Saab R4A AIS transponder receiver/transmitter system that marks maritime activity with an encrypted data link.

Electro-Optic (HDTV) and Thermal Imager Sensors : For close range detection, identification and recording of surface objects and activities.

ELINT : Capable of intercepting and collect intelligence information consisting of detailed information of e.g. complex emitters active signal components, the relationship and the dynamics between active signal components.

ESM System : Automatically identifies RF (Radio Frequency) signal sources and Direction Finding of RF signal sources.

SPS System : Radar warning receivers, missile approach warning sensors, laser warning sensors as well as chaff and flare dispensers for self protection.

COMINT System : Enhances SIGINT capability by complementing the baseline ELINT system. Includes Direction Finder function and an Intercept System.

Command & Control (C2) System : Integrates and assists in controlling mission sensors and provides the user interface to mission operators, via four (4) workstations installed side-by-side in the cabin facing starboard, and to the pilots via a dedicated tactical display. The workstations also provide access to the mission communication system.

FLIR : Forward Looking Infra Red which can be used for identification of vessels. While performance depends on on environmental conditions such as fog, sea-state, salt percentage, it can typically be used within a range of 5-10 nautical miles.

SAAB says the aircraft can operate from high altitude airfields, ‘taking off with maximum load and fuel even at very hot temperatures’. With a cruising speed of 350 knots, it can climb to an altitude of 20,000 ft in 10 minutes and reach an operating area 1,000 nautical miles away within three hours. It can maintain position on a single engine even at a height of 20,000 feet.

The aircraft is said to be able to carry out a mission covering 200 nautical miles Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) for 5.5 hours at an altitude of 2,000 ft, or longer patrol times at higher altitudes up to 31000 feet.

The Baseline SAAB 2000

Growth Options on the SAAB 2000

Specifications of the SAAB 2000

Cabin Layout of the SAAB 2000

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 30 May 2011 13:32

Isn't it the same plane they sold to porkis for AEW platform? I remember Guru Drona pointing out some days back how expensive and troublesome it'll be for porkis to maintain these aircrafts as the production line is closed. Wouldn't it be better to buy a more widely used platform?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 30 May 2011 14:13

Update on Livefist regarding alleged Russian snub during joint Indo Russian Naval Exercise.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/05/re ... els-2.html

[UPDATE @ 12.54PM / MAY 30] The Indian Navy has sent an official report on Russia's snub, to India's Foreign Ministry. An MoD officer said the Navy was furious about the way the Russians pulled from the INDRA exercise. A senior source indicated that even the face-saving table-top exercise, referred to in the India Today piece didn't actually happen.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 May 2011 14:16

Gaur wrote:Update on Livefist regarding alleged Russian snub during joint Indo Russian Naval Exercise.
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/05/re ... els-2.html
[UPDATE @ 12.54PM / MAY 30] The Indian Navy has sent an official report on Russia's snub, to India's Foreign Ministry. An MoD officer said the Navy was furious about the way the Russians pulled from the INDRA exercise. A senior source indicated that even the face-saving table-top exercise, referred to in the India Today piece didn't actually happen.

Miffed at the russian fighter being knocked out of the Indian contest??

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 30 May 2011 14:55

Question on Barak re-fits.

I remember reading on BR that we upgraded 7 ships with Barak (cant find the link- sorry).

I see confirmation on BR of 6 ships-
Ganga class- F21, F22
Kashin- D54, D55,
Delhi- D60, D61

Which are the other ones?

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 30 May 2011 15:31

K_Rohit wrote:Question on Barak re-fits.

I remember reading on BR that we upgraded 7 ships with Barak (cant find the link- sorry).

I see confirmation on BR of 6 ships-
Ganga class- F21, F22
Kashin- D54, D55,
Delhi- D60, D61

Which are the other ones?

Viraat

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 30 May 2011 16:13

Pipavav Shipyard gets $660 million Indian navy order; posts FY-11 profit

Is this a new order and what class of ship has been ordered by the IN?

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 30 May 2011 16:20

All over the net it is "gun boats", very vague indeed. But yes going by Nikhil Gandhi's statement, it is indeed a new order since Pipavav was the lowest bidder.

Cheers....

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 May 2011 16:20

India will significantly surpass China in financial investments in the modernization of the country's Navy

In the next 20 years, India will invest 46.96 billion dollars in the modernization of the Navy of the country have adopted 101 new warship, including modern destroyers, amphibious ships and nuclear submarines.

This opinion was expressed by the vice-president of the American analytical agency «AMI International, Bob Nugent, reports PTI.

Speaking at a press conference during which took place in Singapore 8 th International Conference and Exhibition IMDEX Asia-weapons expert in 2011 said that Indian investments will exceed twice the cost in China, which plans to spend 23.99 billion dollars for the construction of 113 warships.

Major investments India plans to send to the program to build nuclear submarines, and China - aircraft carriers.

At the same time, the expert noted that the current capacity of Indian shipyards are involved is almost completely, which could adversely affect the implementation of existing plans. So far behind schedule program includes delivery of Naval submarine "Scorpion" which can not be accelerated because of the lack of additional manufacturing space.

According to the AMI, India's expenditure on the construction of naval vessels could reach 27,8% of the total investment for this purpose in the Asia-Pacific region. Expenditure in India and China to upgrade its navy to exceed the amount of funds allocated for these purposes by Russia.

Among other countries in the Asia-Pacific region, intending to send a large investment for the construction of warships for its Navy, named Australia (14 bn), Indonesia (7 billion), Taiwan (16 bn), Pakistan (2.85 billion dollars) and Singapore (1.74 billion dollars).

According to the forecast AMI, Asia-Pacific region is a world leader in financial investments in the construction of warships. It is expected that over the next three years in Asia Pacific will be built about 340 ships of various types.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 30 May 2011 17:10

Manish_Sharma wrote:Isn't it the same plane they sold to porkis for AEW platform? I remember Guru Drona pointing out some days back how expensive and troublesome it'll be for porkis to maintain these aircrafts as the production line is closed. Wouldn't it be better to buy a more widely used platform?

Apart from the fact that it is Paki operated, the technology appears to be quite old. the base air frame is also out of production, how come SAAB is even offering it to Desh?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 30 May 2011 17:16

neerajb wrote:All over the net it is "gun boats", very vague indeed. But yes going by Nikhil Gandhi's statement, it is indeed a new order since Pipavav was the lowest bidder.
Cheers....

What is this Gun Boat business? I tried uncle G, but no luck. Are we building mini battleship for coastal bombardment for supporting our marine brigades

Just saw Guadalcanal Diary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Guadalcanal on AMC. Warms Jingo's heart that we might be getting capabilities like this... Port Bin Kassim, here we come!!!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 May 2011 18:37

UAC hands another batch of 5 Mig-29k to IN in May 2011
link

In the May 2011 Indian Navy was handed another batch of fighters MiG-29K/KUB comprising 5 aircraft.

An integrated simulator with full motion system was also handed during this period.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 May 2011 18:53

$700 mil for 5 boats means it has to be smaller than P28 corvette size for sure - P28 is plenty heavy in weapons.

on the other hand super dvora apparently is $5 mil a piece....too cheap for this.

methinks its a Sukanya class based OPV design for around $120 mil each

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 30 May 2011 19:02

Austin wrote:UAC hands another batch of 5 Mig-29k to IN in May 2011
link

In the May 2011 Indian Navy was handed another batch of fighters MiG-29K/KUB comprising 5 aircraft.

An integrated simulator with full motion system was also handed during this period.

i was going to post a query regards delivery of Mig 29Ks.

so thanks. btw any idea how many have been delivered so far??

aside - http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2011/05/ ... aunch.html

some pictures of Trikand post lauch.

Igor has also translated/posted the selected portions of v. chepkin interview on the '117' engine of PAKFA -

http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2011/05/ ... chief.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 May 2011 19:12

iirc we had got around 6 Mig29K in goa before this. so now we have 11.

18 more to go.

Luxtor · Post by **Luxtor** » 30 May 2011 19:13

That is really stupid of the Swedes to offer basically the same MRMR aircraft as the ones they sold to the pukis. Haven't they've been paying attention during the MMRCA competition? One of the main reason that F-16IN was knocked out was that it was also being used by the pukis. Another reason is that F-16 is an outdated airframe and with the rejection in the Indian MMRCA it would most likely be the end of the line for the F-16.

On another issue .....The shabby treatment of our naval fleet by the Russians. Couldn't they have indicated that they are not prepared anymore to do the exercise before we sailed out? Why wait until we get all the way there and then they pout (about losing the MMRCA deal)? What do the Russians want? They want us to continue buying all of their weapons systems even though they broke the original contract on the Gorshkov refit and demanded exorbitant increase in money, they gouge us on spare parts for the systems we already have, even then we can't get the spares on time and are of not good quality? The Russians continue to be pennywise and pound foolish. From now on we got to watch out for the Russians.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 May 2011 19:18

Saab's problem is unlike embraer,dassault,gulfstream or bombardier they have no suitable jet or turboprop for MRMP role to offer. leaving out the aircraft, Israel or Thales can easily offer the sensor package, EW, radars and consoles...pulling in specialized weapon like desi/bideshi LWT and harpoon/exocet ASM as needed.

they stand very little chance with the saab2000 proposal....others who bring their own in-production a/c will get a better handle.

I am in favour of getting a Embraer or Falcon a/c and integrating israeli, french and desi systems to arrive at the final solution.....a P8I-Lite will likely be too large and opex costly for this band of capability....boeing cannot downsize the 737-900 down to a 737-200-n-mki size for sure. it may have less systems but will be the same huge size. but then again the time x cost of making a customized soln might end up being more than P8I-Lite which will be readily available and interwork nicely with the ground infra for P8I as well.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 30 May 2011 19:25

pragnya wrote:http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2011/05/ ... aunch.html
some pictures of Trikand post lauch.

I am confused with the 4th picture posted (Trikand in a flooded dock? is this an old picture? because after launch the ship rolled off from the dry dock into the water, did they again tow it back into the dock after flooding it?

Also they raise the Indian flag once it is launched and rolls of from the dock, this picture does not have the flag on the bow mast? or elsewhere?

Another thing i noticed, Trikand seems to be very thin? is it to help in Stealth? would it affect its stability in heavy seas?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 30 May 2011 19:30

Singha wrote:I am in favour of getting a Embraer or Falcon a/c and integrating israeli, french and desi systems to arrive at the final solution....

Embraer solution would be ideal, commonality with our AEWCS platform. Fairly newer airframe and would be a lot more amenable to MKIzing it with a wide variety of sensor packages as well as avionics.

We can then integrate whatever package if missiles, torpedos, bombs etc needed based on payload capacity & doctrine.