Vietnam - News & Discussions

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 17 Jan 2011 02:06

RajeshA wrote: It is only a question of whether Vietnam sees it to be in its national interest to opt for nukes. Perhaps Chinese incursions into Vietnamese waters will help them make their minds sooner rather than later.

I'm just curious if there are actually any wisper of nuclearisation from Vietnam. I thought I missed that memo. How would nukes help Vietnam stake their claims to the islands? Not everything can be solved with nukes. I wager even if Vietnam is nuclear, they wouldn't risk nuclear destruction over those islands. But then again, I'm no warrior.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2011 09:08

TonyMontana wrote: I wager even if Vietnam is nuclear, they wouldn't risk nuclear destruction over those islands. But then again, I'm no warrior.

But if, by some magic, Vietnam were to acquire nukes, any nasty power that might want to cause "nuclear destruction" of Vietnam would be less confident about getting away with it with little or no damage.

This was the logic that the Chinese used to ensure that the North Koreans got nukes. It was the same logic that both the Americans and the Chinese used to ensure that Pakistan got nukes. That is now backphyrring against the US. Of course I am sure that Pakistani nukes offer no threat to China - and even if they do I don;t suppose China would even feel the loss of cities like Urumqi, Kashgar or Lhasa. In fact wiping out Uighurs or Tibetans would be a good thing for the Hans in the long term and if Pakis did that why not?

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 17 Jan 2011 09:31

shiv wrote:
But if, by some magic, Vietnam were to acquire nukes, any nasty power that might want to cause "nuclear destruction" of Vietnam would be less confident about getting away with it with little or no damage.

C'mon Shiv-ji. Strawman arguments are beneath you. There's no need for China to glass Vietnam. No one is glassing anyone.

shiv wrote:This was the logic that the Chinese used to ensure that the North Koreans got nukes. It was the same logic that both the Americans and the Chinese used to ensure that Pakistan got nukes.

North Korea and Pakistan wanted the nukes. Vietnam does not. NoKo and Pakistan are failed states. Vietnam is on the up and up. Look, all I was asking was for some evidence that Vietnam has nuclear ambitions. So I'm guessing they don't.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 17 Jan 2011 17:07

So far as is known, there has been no articulation of nuclear (weapons) ambition by Vietnam. This seems like just an idea that has popped up on BRF. Still, as a logical idea, it is pretty consistent... Whether it will find any traction remains to be seen. We do know, for instance, the idea of nuclearisation is not that far from the minds of the security establishments in Japan and Korea.

On the other hand:

1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/au ... gotiations

2. http://www.suite101.com/content/russia- ... al-a303223

3. http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/20/japan- ... ement.html

4. http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-Vie ... 35246.aspx

5. http://www.nuclearcounterfeit.com/?p=3912

Observing the robustness of the Vietnamese thrust into the area, one might be tempted to conclude that their motivations, apart from energy security, may well include just plain security.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 17 Jan 2011 19:14

"North Korea and Pakistan wanted the nukes.."

Al Qaeda wants nukes. Is China going to give them nukes? Why or why not?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 17 Jan 2011 21:01

JE Menon wrote:So far as is known, there has been no articulation of nuclear (weapons) ambition by Vietnam. This seems like just an idea that has popped up on BRF. Still, as a logical idea, it is pretty consistent... Whether it will find any traction remains to be seen. We do know, for instance, the idea of nuclearisation is not that far from the minds of the security establishments in Japan and Korea.

On the other hand:

1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/au ... gotiations

2. http://www.suite101.com/content/russia- ... al-a303223

3. http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/20/japan- ... ement.html

4. http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-Vie ... 35246.aspx

5. http://www.nuclearcounterfeit.com/?p=3912

Observing the robustness of the Vietnamese thrust into the area, one might be tempted to conclude that their motivations, apart from energy security, may well include just plain security.

JE Menon saar,
Correct saar! It is a BRF idea without much backup from any independent sources. But to be honest, I don't see any reason why Vietnam should not have the same "desires" as many others.

The one reason, that I see as stopping Vietnam would be Vietnam's membership of ASEAN.

So some things need to happen, before other member countries are less apprehensive about Vietnamese nuclear "ambitions?".

Vietnam needs to improve its relations with Philippines, Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand.
They need to reach inter-regional agreements on maritime boundaries, fishing rights, mining rights, island ownership, etc. They have to just blank it out for a minute, that China is not a party also laying similar claims.
ASEAN needs a NATO-like defense structure, cooperative with China, augmented by USA and India.

Once that is in place, other countries may not mind too much when one of them also has nukes. With other countries like Indonesia, Thailand and Philippines, USA and India can have strong partnerships including nuclear partnerships to dissuade them from taking the same path of proliferation. They would need to understand that the danger to Vietnam from China is a lot higher than anything facing the others.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 18 Jan 2011 01:21

I don't get it. And I hope someone can enlighten me on this matter. A consistant theme on BRF is that nukes solves everything. If Japan had nukes, everything will be okay. If Vietnam had nukes, China will be checked. If Korea had nukes, things will go their way. It seems nuclearisation is this national security magic pill and any country that has it will be a 1000 year reich.

Has nuclear weapons made China gave any Indian land back? Has nuclear weapons prevented Pakistani terrorism?

I personally think it's just a fantasy of having China glow at night for the next few hundred years. To each their own, I guess.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 18 Jan 2011 01:23

The logic is the same when, China gifted the nukes to
i) Pakistan for India to "glow at night for the next few hundred years"
ii) north korea for south korea to "glow at night for the next few hundred years"

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jan 2011 01:40

TonyMontana wrote:I don't get it. And I hope someone can enlighten me on this matter. A consistant theme on BRF is that nukes solves everything. If Japan had nukes, everything will be okay. If Vietnam had nukes, China will be checked. If Korea had nukes, things will go their way. It seems nuclearisation is this national security magic pill and any country that has it will be a 1000 year reich.

Has nuclear weapons made China gave any Indian land back? Has nuclear weapons prevented Pakistani terrorism?

I personally think it's just a fantasy of having China glow at night for the next few hundred years. To each their own, I guess.

Why does China have nuclear weapons? Why did China give Pakistan nuclear weapons? How come North Korea has nukes?

China is the world's biggest nuclear proliferator!

The only way to make bully countries like China see reason is to make China see the danger from proliferation first hand, and that two can play the game.

As far as glowing is concerned, if any nuke ever falls on India, Han China too will share in the pain.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 18 Jan 2011 01:48

RajeshA wrote: Why did China give Pakistan nuclear weapons? How come North Korea has nukes?

They are failed states and they wanted the nukes. Vietnam is not and they can do well without escalating tension with China by a factor of 10 and make themselves a nuclear target. Pakistan had the nuke, because India went nuclear. Just because you want someone to do your dirty work doesn't mean they will. Pakistan was the willing partner in this dance we play. I don't see Vietnam becoming India's Pakistan.

RajeshA wrote: China is the world's biggest nuclear proliferator!

The only way to make bully countries like China see reason is to make China see the danger from proliferation first hand, and that two can play the game.

As far as glowing is concerned, if any nuke ever falls on India, Han China too will share in the pain.

Yea yea Rajesh-ji. We've done this before. Let's not get all jingo here and derail the thread.

Please answer my question. Has nuclear weapons solved any of India's problems? Would having nuclear weapons allow Vietnam to gain any real concessions from China? If that's the case, why hasn't China stationed nuclear IRBMs in central america?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 18 Jan 2011 01:55

You havent yet answered, why China has given them? They are failing states doesnt mean, China has to give them. Why Pak/NK wants them is for another day. China didnt give nukes to Mozambique, Azerbaijan, malaysia, Zimbabwe etc but to specific countries.

Dont push responsibility of CHina's giving on to others. Give the reason. and in that reason, you will know.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jan 2011 02:01

TonyMontana wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Why does China have nuclear weapons? Why did China give Pakistan nuclear weapons? How come North Korea has nukes?
They are failed states and they wanted the nukes. Vietnam is not and they can do well without escalating tension with China by a factor of 10 and make themselves a nuclear target. Pakistan had the nuke, because India went nuclear. Just because you want someone to do your dirty work doesn't mean they well. Pakistan was the willing partner in this dance we plan. I don't see Vietnam becoming India's Pakistan.

Is China too a failed state. Why does China have nukes?

TonyMontana wrote:
RajeshA wrote: China is the world's biggest nuclear proliferator!

The only way to make bully countries like China see reason is to make China see the danger from proliferation first hand, and that two can play the game.

As far as glowing is concerned, if any nuke ever falls on India, Han China too will share in the pain.
Yea yea Rajesh-ji. We've done this before. Let's not get all jingo here and derail the thread.

Please answer my question. Has nuclear weapons solved any of India's problems? Would having nuclear weapons allow Vietnam to gain any real concessions from China? If that's the case, why hasn't China stationed nuclear IRBMs in central america?

Yea yea, we have done this before too!

Nukes have allowed India to not be bullied by China on the border issue. Any repeat of 1962's Chinese attack on India means China can have bigger problems at hand. Those are solved problems.

Vietnam is not solving India's problems. Those who have problems with China would look for common solutions. With nukes Vietnam can be sure that there is no repeat of 1979 where China marched into Vietnam. Isn't that a problem solved?

Nukes are great defensive weapons against big industrialized bullies. And China is one such bully!

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 18 Jan 2011 02:17

Practical problems. Rajesh. Not imaginary invasions. Think cost/benefit analysis.
What are the chances of the PLA marching south? What would be the cost to Vietnam, if there were no PLA plans to march south, and they go nuclear? If China never threatens Vietnam proper, would Vietnam Samson over just the islands?

I'm not convinced at all.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 18 Jan 2011 02:30

doesnt answer
i) why China needs the nukes
ii) why China gave the nukes to Pak/NK

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jan 2011 02:32

TonyMontana wrote:Practical problems. Rajesh. Not imaginary invasions. Think cost/benefit analysis.
What are the chances of the PLA marching south? What would be the cost to Vietnam, if there were no PLA plans to march south, and they go nuclear? If China never threatens Vietnam proper, would Vietnam Samson over just the islands?

Imaginary invasions?
CCP forget to brief you about the India-China War of 1962 and the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979.

You can ask the CCP to shove the cost/benefit analysis up its anal tube! When it is a question of territorial integrity of a country, you don't do such stuff. Neither does China.

TonyMontana wrote:I'm not convinced at all.

TonyMontana ji,
Nobody can convince the CCP, that their nuclear proliferation was wrong with words alone!

BTW, you still haven't answered the question, why does China have nuclear weapons?

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 18 Jan 2011 02:34

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"North Korea and Pakistan wanted the nukes.."

Al Qaeda wants nukes. Is China going to give them nukes? Why or why not?

Tony,

If you dont mind, can you answer this question please !

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 18 Jan 2011 02:57

Rony wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:"North Korea and Pakistan wanted the nukes.."

Al Qaeda wants nukes. Is China going to give them nukes? Why or why not?

Tony,

If you dont mind, can you answer this question please !

China stands by her policy of fighting terrorism in all it's forms. We remain committed to the Global War on Terror and will do our part in ensuring peace and stability in the region. China too is a victim of Islamic extremeism and will work along side with people of all races and religion to combat this modern menace.

TonyMontana · Post by **TonyMontana** » 18 Jan 2011 03:05

RajeshA wrote: Imaginary invasions?

"Japan invade China in the 30's. OMG they are going to invade again in the near future! We need biological weapons that only targets the Japanese people to ensure our safety." What would you think if you read this on a Chinese jingo site? You laugh right? The world today is just a little bit different to the world back then. Don't you think?

RajeshA wrote: You can ask the CCP to shove the cost/benefit analysis up its anal tube! When it is a question of territorial integrity of a country, you don't do such stuff. Neither does China.

So why does India do it? Why haven't you nuked us yet for occupying your land? You must know that not every one is a Jingo right? And they do do cost/benefit analysis.

RajeshA wrote: BTW, you still haven't answered the question, why does China have nuclear weapons?

Because we wanted nuclear weapons. Does Vietnam?

ravar · Post by **ravar** » 18 Jan 2011 03:08

TonyMontana wrote: China stands by her policy of fighting terrorism in all it's forms. We remain committed to the Global War on Terror and will do our part in ensuring peace and stability in the region. China too is a victim of Islamic extremeism and will work along side with people of all races and religion to combat this modern menace.

Oh Yeah?

Pak’s all-weather friend China blocks India move against terror havens

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 18 Jan 2011 03:28

TonyMontana wrote: Because we wanted nuclear weapons. Does Vietnam?

is this the ONLY universal criteria?

Now because you dont "need" nukes and only "want" nukes, China might be good enough to dismantle all its nukes, afterall China's rise is all peaceful only no.

You tell that because China "wants" nukes, it developed it. So China is ready to "waste" billions of money on nukes, ignoring the millions dead during the "great leap forward" (which was when Mao developed it).

Have to really appreciate such a nation.
Have to say, there are only two choices.
i) either China to have such priorities is a fu**ed up nation and you are sane or
ii) China is sane but the person who wrote that argument is.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jan 2011 03:29

TonyMontana wrote:
RajeshA wrote: Imaginary invasions?
"Japan invade China in the 30's. OMG they are going to invade again in the near future! We need biological weapons that only targets the Japanese people to ensure our safety." What would you think if you read this on a Chinese jingo site? You laugh right? The world today is just a little bit different to the world back then. Don't you think?

China has nuclear weapons. Japan doesn't. China has sufficient firepower to dissuade Japan to do a repeat of 1930s. India needs nukes to dissuade China from doing a repeat of 1962. Vietnam could have similar reasons.

TonyMontana wrote:
RajeshA wrote: You can ask the CCP to shove the cost/benefit analysis up its anal tube! When it is a question of territorial integrity of a country, you don't do such stuff. Neither does China.
So why does India do it? Why haven't you nuked us yet for occupying your land? You must know that not every one is a Jingo right? And they do do cost/benefit analysis.

TonyMontana ji,
come on, you can at least act as if you can pose intelligent questions! "Why haven't we nuked you already?"!!!

Nukes are there to stop you from taking more land. The land you already have would be liberated using different methods.
Protecting one's territory is not jingoism. It is simple patriotism. And patriots do not do cost/benefit analysis when their land is under threat.

TonyMontana wrote:
RajeshA wrote: BTW, you still haven't answered the question, why does China have nuclear weapons?
Because we wanted nuclear weapons. Does Vietnam?

Go ask Vietnam! They will probably say they don't want until they already have some!

And China wanted nukes for what? Roasting duck?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Jan 2011 05:33

Does seem like the prospect of poor ol' 'Nam acquiring a few dozen bums nook, by hook and by crook does seem to unsettle the famed cheeni sang-froid, eh? The trolley certainly seems all huffy n puffy whilst pretending to be too kool to care. LOL. Chillax, I doubt Yindia will gift nooks away just like that. I wish we were more amoral, ruthless and scheming, though. "sigh". Happens. Personally, If Delhi can find a roundabout way to get 'nam her nooks, the world will be a better place. Only. Maybe taiwan and Soko and finally, Japan can get inspired to develop their own nooks then. Who knows.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 May 2011 18:40

Published on May 13, 2011
By M Goonan
Vietnam stays the nuclear course: Asia Times Online

While other countries in the region rethink their nuclear power plans in the wake of the March 11 earthquake and tsunami that destroyed nuclear power plants in Japan, Vietnam has stood firm behind its ambitious designs. Vietnam plans to build 14 nuclear reactors with Russian, American and Japanese assistance over the next two decades. The first, in Ninh Thuan province, is under construction.

Hanoi's decision to pursue nuclear power dates back to the mid-1990s when market reforms started to take root. Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has since made industrialization by 2020 a key goal of his economic development agenda, but drought-stricken hydropower dams and diminishing coal supplies have contributed to frequent power outages and put Dung's industrialization ambitions in doubt.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 07 Jun 2011 14:21

Originally posted by kmkraoind

Published on Jun 05, 2011
By K. Oanh Ha
Facebook Call Prompts Protest Marches in Vietnam Over Dispute With China: Bloomberg

Young Vietnamese, spurred by calls on Facebook and other social media, marched through Hanoi to protest China’s recent actions in disputed territories in the South China Sea.

Holding signs that read “Stop Chinese Invasion of Vietnam Lands” and singing the national anthem, a crowd of mostly Vietnamese college students demonstrated on Hanoi’s streets yesterday after police blocked their path to the Chinese embassy.

The protests, announced on Facebook, blogs and chat forums, highlight growing tensions in the South China Sea as Vietnam, the Philippines and China are unable to agree on renewing joint exploration in the disputed area.

For the Vietnamese demonstrators, it was an unusual public opportunity to engage politically. Most said they heard about the protest on Facebook, which is routinely blocked in Vietnam. The marchers were often flanked by security police.

Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs last week formally protested a recent incident in which Chinese naval ships threatened Vietnamese fishermen with weapons in the area of the Spratly Islands, according to a statement on the government website. Vietnam also protested Chinese ships cutting survey cables of a boat operated by Vietnam Oil & Gas Group, or PetroVietnam, last month.

“I’m marching for peace,” said Nguyen Ly Nga Hien, a 21- year-old university student. “If we allow China to continue its bullying behavior, it will upset world peace. This dispute needs to be solved through foreign affairs channels not with Chinese boats provoking us.”

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 07 Jun 2011 15:40

RajeshA wrote:Originally posted by kmkraoind

Published on Jun 05, 2011
By K. Oanh Ha
Facebook Call Prompts Protest Marches in Vietnam Over Dispute With China: Bloomberg
Young Vietnamese, spurred by calls on Facebook and other social media, marched through Hanoi to protest China’s recent actions in disputed territories in the South China Sea.

Hmm .. I cant access FB where I am in HCMC. newspapers have been carrying this story every day, doubt "social media" matters much to get the word out.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 07 Jun 2011 18:08

^^ What are people's impressions of India and Indians? pro India or pro China? Please give us a report on Ho Chi Min City.

Thanks

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 07 Jun 2011 19:54

shyamd wrote:^^ What are people's impressions of India and Indians? pro India or pro China? Please give us a report on Ho Chi Min City. Thanks

I can only talk of "mango viet". They are pro india for sure, more in hanoi than hcmc. it may be due to stronger anti china feelings in the north or the indira gandhi garden in hanoi who knows

For the cha corners, india is a big huge poor country thats the birthplace of buddha n gandhi. English fluent guys i meet r in bank it departments coz hey thats my job. Many of them r educated in australia england singapore amreeka n many have come across indians there. I guess students in these countries mingle across nationalities. For them, india is viewed thru western eyes. I can get why. Before i came here, all my reading on vietnam was of western authors.
Modern india gets some news coverage but its too little to perceive any slant. France n america r big, china gets about as much as coverage as japan or korea. They r all bigger than india. I so wish bajaj or tvs hawked some of their dumb bikes in here

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 10 Jun 2011 10:58

China 'cable cutting' angers Vietnam in Spratlys row - BBC

He insisted China's intentions were peaceful and said that China was not looking for oil in the disputed waters and therefore, no other country should.

"We're calling on other parties to stop searching for the possibility of exploiting resources in these areas where China has its claims," he told reporters.

"We will never use force unless we are attacked," he said, when asked what China would do if other countries pursued their claims.

The Philippine government has accused two Chinese patrol boats of harassing a Philippine oil exploration ship on 2 March this year.

The Philippines has said it has seen new structures being built on islands which it claims.

"That's part of our exercise of jurisdiction. It's not harassment," Mr Liu said.

Chinese arrogance at its best. No wounder even if some of SE nations will seek a military block with US and Japan similar to NATO.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 10 Jun 2011 15:46

^^ the sheer ridiculousness of China's demand can be seen from the map above. Am amazed at their arrogance!

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 11 Jun 2011 15:25

Viets issued strong words against PRC and will launch exercises in South China sea on monday.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 12 Jun 2011 03:28

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Vietnam- ... 6783213.jp
Vietnam 'defends' oil explorationPremium Article !

Vietnam has announced a live ammunition drill in the South China Sea after China demanded that the Vietnamese halt all oil exploration in the area.
The clash comes after a similar spat between China and the Philippines earlier this week over another disputed area.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Jun 2011 07:27

arunsrinivasan wrote:^^ the sheer ridiculousness of China's demand can be seen from the map above. Am amazed at their arrogance!

China is the superpower. How dare you question the superpower.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Jun 2011 15:10

Vietnam is showing Asia that no matter how large the threat of China is it will not compromise upon its legitimate interests(S.I.Singh,are you watching?) and has gone ahead with live-fire naval drills.China is alleged to have cut a cable of a Vietnamese boat earlier,leading to tension.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... y-exercise

Vietnam holds live-fire exercises as territorial dispute with China escalatesBeijing warns other regional powers not to become involved in row over South China Sea islands and surrounding waters

Quote:
Vietnam holds live-fire exercises as territorial dispute with China escalates
Beijing warns other regional powers not to become involved in row over South China Sea islands and surrounding waters

Tania Branigan in Beijing and agencies guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 14 June 2011
Vietnamese sailors train with a machine gun on Phan Vinh Island in the Spratly archipelago, which is at the centre of a territorial dispute with China. Photograph: Vietnam News Agency/AFP/Getty

China has warned other countries not to become involved in an escalating sea border dispute with Vietnam that reflects concern over Beijing's increasing international power and confidence.

Experts say the stand-off between China and Vietnam - two of the six powers laying claim to a number of islands and their surrounding waters in the South China Sea - is the worst for more than two decades. Vietnam held live-fire exercises off its coast on Monday, in what analysts said was a response without precedent.

PS:All the more reason fr us t up the Indo-Vietnam naval cooperation.There was some talk earlier abotu Cam Ranh Bay,etc. amd sales of B'MOs missiles to Vietnam.I suggest that we also sell Prithvi to them because there may be a poss. veto on B'MOs sales from Russia due to the clout of China.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 23 Jun 2011 19:05

Vietnam to hold joint naval drill with US

China Warns U.S. to Stay Out of Regional Disputes

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 30 Jun 2011 10:20

Explainer: South China Sea -- Asia's most dangerous waters - CNN

China military tells Vietnam to cool tempers over sea - Reuters

Now CNN has designated Indo-Pacific (South China sea) area has most dangerous. Seems to be something is cooking between China and West (say US). The recent visit of Chinese president to Europe telling to buy up debt of Europe (flexing muscle) and China showing its new armaments every week is not going well in US. Expect a big skirmish in Indo-Pacific area, so that China can be shown a big bully to SE nations to embrace stronger Japan, US and India to counter balance China.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jul 2011 19:29

Published on Jul 15, 2011
Vietnam condemns bomb blasts in India: Voice of Vietnam

Vietnam strongly condemns the bomb blasts in Mumbai, India, on July 13, a spokeswoman from the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said.

Spokeswoman Nguyen Phuong Nga made the statement on July 14 while answering reporters’ question on Vietnam’s reaction to bomb explosions in Mumbai.

“Vietnam strongly condemns the bomb blasts in India’s Mumbai city on July 13 that left dozens of people dead and hundreds of others injured,” she said.

“We would like to convey our regards and deepest sympathy to the Indian state, government, people and families of the victims.”

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 11 Aug 2011 16:11

Soo much has happened in the last week in Indo - Viet ties. Can someone please post. We are engaging in lots of strategic dialogue. Business people on visits to Vietnam. Fortis buying hospitals in Vietnam. Lots happening!

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 11 Aug 2011 18:05

TonyMontana wrote:
RajeshA wrote: Why did China give Pakistan nuclear weapons? How come North Korea has nukes?
They are failed states and they wanted the nukes. Vietnam is not and they can do well without escalating tension with China by a factor of 10 and make themselves a nuclear target. Pakistan had the nuke, because India went nuclear. Just because you want someone to do your dirty work doesn't mean they will. Pakistan was the willing partner in this dance we play. I don't see Vietnam becoming India's Pakistan.

RajeshA wrote: China is the world's biggest nuclear proliferator!

The only way to make bully countries like China see reason is to make China see the danger from proliferation first hand, and that two can play the game.

As far as glowing is concerned, if any nuke ever falls on India, Han China too will share in the pain.
Yea yea Rajesh-ji. We've done this before. Let's not get all jingo here and derail the thread.

Please answer my question. Has nuclear weapons solved any of India's problems? Would having nuclear weapons allow Vietnam to gain any real concessions from China? If that's the case, why hasn't China stationed nuclear IRBMs in central america?

Tony your points are fair enough. I disapprove of people taking an action just because somebody else is taking an action. India should not do something just because China is doing it. China maybe doing it or might have done it for its interest, which may not serve India’s interest.

People on BRF have advocated Vietnam going nuclear and India helping it in this endeavor. This may be due to what China did with Pakistan w.r.t nukes. i.e. some people might feel the urge to get even. The fact that Vietnam’s nukes will not remain pointed only at China is lost to many in BRF. Further other countries, excluding China, might feel threatened by Vietnam going nuclear and might hold India responsible.

This logic is fair enough and I agree with you. This talk of India helping Vietnam going nuclear is not a well thought through decision.

But there is a flip side to this. The lust which China has for other peoples lands. Nukes have not helped India to reclaim its territories lost to China but they give us two things

1) They prevent China from taking any more land. In 1980s an incident happened along the MacMohan Line in which a Chinese military official threatened massed Indian troops with nuclear weapons unless they retreated. Currently no such threat can be made. In 1980s we did not have the means to drop our nukes over any Chinese territories. Hence our nukes were in effect a paper tiger.

2) In the future when China is no longer as strong as it is currently, our nuclear weapons will enable us to reclaim those lands which we have lost and most probably help us to reestablish a free independent Tibet and possibly East Turkestan too. By this we will eliminate forever the presence of Han Chinese on Himalayas. You see China has never remained a strong nation, it has its peaks and fall. Further by the end of next decade, china will no longer be able to field the largest army in the world. And its ability to do so will degrade significantly post 2025. And if you think that numbers don’t matter, please have a word with Douglas MacArthur and Hitler. That is when India’s nukes will come into play. It is a function of time, and it is on our side. Nukes will enable us to get what we want, one way or another.

This is as far as India and China go.

Now let us revisit the China and Vietnam equation again. While I have advocated that India should not help Vietnam going nuclear, that does not mean that there is not a 3rd option.
If Vietnam were to go nuclear, which it will, if China continues down the path it has gone, then India need not oppose such an eventuality. What India needs to do is let it be known that India will not take part in any attempt to throttle Vietnam’s ability either militarily or economically. The balance of terror will hold in the south china sea too just as it held against WARSAW and NATO pact countries. If China knows that its future oil platforms, based on south china sea, can be nuked then it will behave properly.
This applies not only to Vietnam but also to other countries like Mongolia, where a pan-mongolism is rearing its head, and Taiwan. We need not be concerned about Japan, because it already has the ability to make a nuke and has the technology to do so. I am waiting for China to invade Taiwan or occupy it. When this happens, it will drive Japan to go nuclear.

sum · Post by **sum** » 31 Aug 2011 10:29

US cautioned Vietnam on including India in ASEAN meet

For example, Burma was disturbed by Japan's potential membership following Tokyo's recent criticism of the GOB's treatment of ASSK. In addition, Vietnam was hesitant in including India.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 17 Sep 2011 03:08

India, Vietnam to increase defence, security cooperation