Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

anandsgh · Post by **anandsgh** » 08 Jun 2011 02:39

Don't know whether to share this here or not but here is the link of PBS documentary on Mumbai Massacre. This is different from the one on Channel4.
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=9SK8GA81

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 08 Jun 2011 03:28

Gus wrote:I wish we discuss more on KLN Murthy's post that A_Kumar bumped up. There is really nobody pushing any credible (relative term that differs with people) alternative with Unkil's policy makers on what to with Pakistan. RD mentioned that amongst only a few matter when it comes to policy and none of them are even leaning to anything different than what they have tried (and failed) in the past.

The required change in the area that is Pakistan is the displacement of the army that is "the great vampire squid that is wrapped across the face" of those people. This can happen in many ways, e.g., disintegration of Pakistan into 3 or 4 successor states is one of them. However:

1. Unless there is some surprise brewing like the "Arab Spring", there are no internal forces that seem able to oust the Pak. army.

2. There are no external forces either - in fact, the 3.5 want to keep the Pak. army in place.

Fundamental transformation of Germany and Japan happened after a major military defeat and occupation (and no Treaty of Versailles imposed upon them). But talking about generosity to the people after Pakistan is occupied is pointless because there is no power that even remotely threatens to occupy it.

Therefore there is really only one viable option - which is to accelerate the growth of forces that can displace the Pak. army.

Will the reduction of 3.5 friends to 1.5 help displace the Pak. army? If yes, then there is a clear objective, to take away 2 friends.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 08 Jun 2011 03:59

Lalmohan wrote:possibly the desire of pakistanis to emulate arabs is partly driven by their desire to fill the 'right image' in the minds of their american masters...?

It is classical imperialist "successor empire" doctrine it seems to me. Center of khilafat shifted from mecca to bagdad to spain to cairo to constantinople. Conceiving and planning for a new center in Isloo means, in part, coopting the Arab mantle. But they can't do it without subduing the Hindus. That is the core of the Paki kampf and its "hindu problem."

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 08 Jun 2011 04:18

Mahendra wrote:http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/07/pakistan ... ation.html

Pakistan sarkar signs unislamic deal with Cheena birather.

Pakistan has assured China of providing full intelligence cooperation on the activities of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), DawnNews reported.

The ETIM is said to be working for the separation of Xinjiang from China by means of violence and terror. (very packi way of going about things, where is the problem?)

Among the stated goals of the ETIM is the conversion of all Chinese people to Islam.
The Pakistan government is engaging in serious blasphemy by back-stabbing an organisation that is following the HoKo by trying too convert all Chinese people to Islam.

I totally support Pakistanis right to religious freedom and their right to convert the Chinese to Islam. The UN human rights stands by these evangelicals right to convert.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Jun 2011 06:07

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=220&sid=2411919

Pakistan allegedly helped bin Laden to gain U.S. aid

Tuesday - 6/7/2011, 7:24am ET
WASHINGTON - Pakistan learned a hard lesson after the Soviet-Afghan war ended in 1989 and the U.S. abruptly terminated its covert support for the Afghan rebels: A large portion of that support was provided through and with the help of Pakistan.

If they manage to develop a strategic partnership with the U.S. beyond any existing conflict around the area, it will help them to sort out the problem with India."

This thing with US and partnership by Pakistan is mostly looks bogus. This clinging to US is part of Pak and US knows that. Pak needs help to play above its weight

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 08 Jun 2011 07:04

Deleted and shifted to India-Israel Thread.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 08 Jun 2011 07:10

My posts on this thread were an attempt to explain US apathy to incidents of terror against India. Enough said here.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 08 Jun 2011 07:13

Deleted and shifted.

archan · Post by **archan** » 08 Jun 2011 07:16

Looks like this thread could use some good ol' lovin' by a mod, shall we get some heads rollin' and thread will roll back on course? hain?

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 08 Jun 2011 07:26

Anujan wrote: Because Bush didnt bomb everyone in Kunduz,..................

You'd be surprised at how few Americans know about the Kunduz airlift. There was a really good article that was posted on BRF. Every single person i forwarded it to had no idea that the US (Dubya's call) stopped bombing Kunduz to let the pakis evacuate their own army personnel who were fighting with the Taleban.

I wonder if someone still has that article. It was titled the "Kunduz Airlift" or something very similar.

Sadler · Post by **Sadler** » 08 Jun 2011 07:40

archan wrote:Looks like this thread could use some good ol' lovin' by a mod, shall we get some heads rollin' and thread will roll back on course? hain?

I appreciate the warning. I had started reading and responding to posts directed at me in chronological order and did not see Ramama's warning until much later had i not seen your post.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 08 Jun 2011 07:56

Sadler wrote:
Anujan wrote: Because Bush didnt bomb everyone in Kunduz,..................
You'd be surprised at how few Americans know about the Kunduz airlift. There was a really good article that was posted on BRF. Every single person i forwarded it to had no idea that the US (Dubya's call) stopped bombing Kunduz to let the pakis evacuate their own army personnel who were fighting with the Taleban.

I wonder if someone still has that article. It was titled the "Kunduz Airlift" or something very similar.

It is on wiki.. see here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airlift_of_Evil

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 08 Jun 2011 07:59

cheenum babu got here first

post deleted

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 08 Jun 2011 08:07

Anujan wrote: This is a load of Nandi-droppings. You are attributing something to ignorance which should be attributed in equal parts to malice, perfidy and being deliberately calculative. US is not blinkered, US is simply calculative and has a history of making other people do its dirty work so they dont need to work their musharraf off and/or others suffer the blowback. There are many cases in point:

+1

Moved to Indo-US thread.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Jun 2011 08:12

So is Praveen Swami back at Chindu?
Pakistan rejects call for action against LeT leaders

Pakistan has rejected calls by the United States to prosecute intelligence officers and top Lashkar-e-Taiba commanders indicted by a federal court for their role in the November, 2008 attack on Mumbai, a highly-placed diplomatic source has told The Hindu.

In meetings last month with Hillary Clinton, the United States Secretary of State, Pakistani officials said that action against the Lashkar could spark off a war within Pakistan.

“They said there were thousands, of trained cadre with the Lashkar who would become impossible to control if their leaders were arrested,” the source said. “Instead, they said they would maintain strict watch over the Lashkar, and slowly work to dismantle its military capabilities.”

archan · Post by **archan** » 08 Jun 2011 08:16

^^ So they are afraid to touch them but they will be able to "keep a strict watch on them"?

Who are the pakis trying to fool?
There is no limit to how low these retards can fall. What about honour and dignity? perhaps they'll make up for it by beating their wives again tonight.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 08 Jun 2011 08:32

Chinese engineers assaulted by Faisalabad’s villagers

FAISALABAD - Villagers of Faisalabad’s rural area of Shamaalpur assaulted five Chinese engineers, severely wounding them.

As per media reports, these Chinese engineers were working over a bridge project of Faisalabad’s Motorway section when they got embroiled with some villagers.

Harsh words were exchanged after which the armed villagers assaulted the engineers and also resorted to aerial firing.

Kanishka · Post by **Kanishka** » 08 Jun 2011 08:35

pgbhat wrote:So is Praveen Swami back at Chindu?
Pakistan rejects call for action against LeT leaders
Pakistan has rejected calls by the United States to prosecute intelligence officers and top Lashkar-e-Taiba commanders indicted by a federal court for their role in the November, 2008 attack on Mumbai, a highly-placed diplomatic source has told The Hindu.

In meetings last month with Hillary Clinton, the United States Secretary of State, Pakistani officials saidthat action against the Lashkar could spark off a war within Pakistan.

“They said there were thousands, of trained cadre {Who trained them? What kind of training did they receive? Where were they trained? }with the Lashkar who would become impossible to control if their leaders were arrested,” the source said. “Instead, they said they would maintain strict watch over the Lashkar, and slowly work to dismantle its military capabilities.”

What the bugger is saying that Pakistan is incapable of maintaining law and order within its own territory.
Isn't that a ground for declaring Pakistan as a "Non State" or similar?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Jun 2011 08:38

For Piskologist Docullah!
http://pakistaniat.com/2011/06/05/pakis ... emography/
Paki Demongraphics

At 2.1 percent, Pakistan has the dubious honour of having South Asia’s highest population growth rate.
On average, two people died and eight were born every minute in Pakistan in 2010, meaning the country’s population increased by six people every minute of the year, on average.
This translates into a growth in the Pakistani population of half a million people in the last year. This would be added to the estimated population of 177.1 million as of July 1st 2010.
Though Pakistan’s official literacy rate increased from 18 percent to 50 percent, according to numbers from 2009, the number of illiterate people in the country increased from 28 million to 48 million, according to UNESCO numbers.. The Labour Force Survey of 2009-2010 credits Pakistan with the ninth largest available labour force in the world at 54.92 million people. With an unemployment rate of 5.6 percent, this may appear to provide Pakistan with a formidable engine of economic growth, though 29.1 percent of those employed – more than two-thirds of whom are women – are working as “unpaid family helpers.”From 1960 to the present, Pakistan’s population has quadrupled, according to a vice-president at Population Action International. Indeed, the United Nations’ recent population projections for Pakistan in 2050 increased by 45 million in two years. Citing the Economic Survey of Pakistan, The Express Tribune says one of the main reasons for this explosive growth is a shockingly low prevalence rate for contraceptives – the lowest “not just in South Asia but among major Muslim countries”.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jun 2011 08:49

It is not my intention to talk about Israel in this thread but I raise the topic in the context of a tendency I have noted in the media to equate Pakistan's position with that of Israel. There is a tendency to say "Oh Jews were persecuted and hence a Jewish state was carved out for them. Muslims were persecuted in India and hence a state for Muslims (called Pakistan) was carved out fo them"

This is a specious argument that suits no one but the military elite of Pakistan, but I need to explain my use of the word "specious". The argument that "Pakistan is to Muslims as Israel is to Jews" has to be false for it to be specious.

Was Israel really "carved out of Arab lands" because Jews were persecuted? I am unable to find any evidence to support that. While Jews had lived in Palestine for millennia new settlers started arriving there in the late 1800s and early 1900s. This was even before the Turkish Caliphate was defeated - so it wasn't colonial days yet. It was also a time when Jews had gained equal rights in France, Britain and Germany. Much of the Jewish migration was to America but some of it was to Palestine and those settlers actually created a state for themselves. The state gained recognition and legitimacy only after WW2 in 1948. Attributing the creation of the state of Israel to the persecution of Jews is the attribution of a coincidental event as a causative factor. The fact that Jews were actually persecuted may have added to the need to migrate - but migration was possible to many places and Palestine would not seem to be the best place to migrate unless one actually wanted to contribute to the building of a state.

Pakistan on the other hand was created on the basis of the idea that Muslims were being, or would be, persecuted in "Hindu India". Pakistan was created on a grievance. Israel was created out of a desire to build a state. So any parallels being drawn between Israel and Pakistan need to be nipped in the bud.

Israel was not created on a grievance. Israel is not "I exist because you are bad" Israel exists because "I am, and I exist". Pakistan exists on the basis of "I exist because you (India) are bad. You (India) need to continue to look bad for me to exist"

It suits only Pakistan to make an equal equal between Israel and Pakistan. If that equal equal was important or true I would have thought that Israel too would be justifying its existence to the way Pakistan was created. But Israel does not do that. The grievance factor and persecution factor are both irrelevant to the creation of the state of Israel and Israelis are not walking around with a chip on their shoulders crying about persecution and hence their right to survive in a separate state.

In fact it gets worse than that as I will explain, and for this reason I request people not to give Pakistan any mileage with this fake Israel-Pakistan analogy.

Israel's survival is constantly under threat - and has been so for a while. There are open threats that israel should be attacked with nuclear weapons from the likes of Iran and even Pakistanis. These threats may be bluster - but when we are speaking of Israel-Pakistan parallels - Pakistan's survival has never been under threat from anyone other than fellow Pakistanis. India has never militarily or politically challenged the existence of Pakistan. Bangladesh is not an example. Pakistanis are the first to admit that it was a civil war, eager as they are to avoid giving any credit to India for anything. Pakistan's survival is claimed to be under threat as a continuation of the grievance against Hindu India that gave rise to Pakistan.

I believe Indians are scoring a massive self goal by accepting any sort similarity in the history and raisin dieter of Israel and Pakistan. We need to recognise this and nip this nonsense before it goes too far. we are the ones who will suffer for it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jun 2011 08:59

Prem wrote:For Piskologist Docullah!
http://pakistaniat.com/2011/06/05/pakis ... emography/
Paki Demongraphics

On average, two people died and eight were born every minute in Pakistan in 2010, meaning the country’s population increased by six people every minute of the year, on average.
This translates into a growth in the Pakistani population of half a million people in the last year. This would be added to the estimated population of 177.1 million as of July 1st 2010.

Madrassa math
6 people per minute x 60 minutes an hour x 24 hours x 365 days
6 x 60 x 24 x 365 = 3 million plus.

Not half a million.

And that birth rate of 2.1 may be a bluff. Last I read it was 2.5

It is paki piskology alright

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 08 Jun 2011 09:01

@ Shivji, thanks for the lucid explanation on Israel / TSP. Please x-post on the India - Israel thread for the sake of completeness.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Jun 2011 09:04

Old video about one minister getting caught in a raid on a whorehouse in Pakistan.
The said netaji is arrested and is wearing a suit and tie all nice and decent.
The guy mentions that several chinese women have been caught in this and other raids and they have all been deported.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaO0MVVuWyI

Pak-Cheeni dosti is indeed deeper than ...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jun 2011 09:07

shravan wrote:Chinese engineers assaulted by Faisalabad’s villagers

FAISALABAD - Villagers of Faisalabad’s rural area of Shamaalpur assaulted five Chinese engineers, severely wounding them.

As per media reports, these Chinese engineers were working over a bridge project of Faisalabad’s Motorway section when they got embroiled with some villagers.

Harsh words were exchanged after which the armed villagers assaulted the engineers and also resorted to aerial firing.

Long Live Pakistan China friendship

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 08 Jun 2011 10:00

shravan wrote:Chinese engineers assaulted by Faisalabad’s villagers

FAISALABAD - Villagers of Faisalabad’s rural area of Shamaalpur assaulted five Chinese engineers, severely wounding them.

As per media reports, these Chinese engineers were working over a bridge project of Faisalabad’s Motorway section when they got embroiled with some villagers.

Harsh words were exchanged after which the armed villagers assaulted the engineers and also resorted to aerial firing.

insulting and beating taller than mountain friend, this shameful act can only be done by kufrs, these villagers are hindu zionists, i say wajib-ul-katl them all

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 08 Jun 2011 10:09

http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/08/family-s ... death.html

THATHI: Four days after reports of Ilyas Kashmiri’s death emerged, the reputed al Qaeda commander’s Pakistani family say they know nothing about his fate and nor do the intelligence agents who visit.

Thathi, the home village of al Qaeda’s alleged military kingpin, is an arduous six-hour drive from Islamabad, pushing ever higher into the foothills of the Himalayas, carpeted in lush grass but remote and depressingly poor.

Kashmiri’s family says they have not seen him in six years. Nor has he sent money. Elder brother Chaudhry Asghar speaks almost angrily about the burden of having to care for Kashmiri’s frail wife and four growing children.

“We don’t believe he’s dead,” said the 50-year-old, speaking to AFP at a village shop and refusing to let reporters visit Kashmiri’s house or meet the rest of the family until the situation becomes “clearer”.

True conspiracy, hain ji?

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 08 Jun 2011 10:34

Gagan wrote:Old video about one minister getting caught in a raid on a whorehouse in Pakistan.
The said netaji is arrested and is wearing a suit and tie all nice and decent.
The guy mentions that several chinese women have been caught in this and other raids and they have all been deported.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaO0MVVuWyI

Pak-Cheeni dosti is indeed deeper than ...

Gagan, IIRC, that was a Baloch minister set up by the ISI because he questioned Mushy's murder of Akbar Khan Bugti.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Jun 2011 11:20

In meetings last month with Hillary Clinton, the United States Secretary of State, Pakistani officials said that action against the Lashkar could spark off a war within Pakistan.

“They said there were thousands, of trained cadre with the Lashkar who would become impossible to control if their leaders were arrested,” the source said. “Instead, they said they would maintain strict watch over the Lashkar, and slowly work to dismantle its military capabilities.”

Clearly it indicates that Pakistan cannot control the extreme elements within it's society. It seems it's OK for Pakistan if these groups create civil disturbances/ war/ terror acts in Afghanistan or India, but on their soil they will not tackle the problem and take the responsibility. They will not allow others to do the needful also. This is the hallmark of a terrorist state. Nothing else is. So a Stable Pakistan will have to include the LeT.

Anyone thinking that stabilizing Pakistan and keeping it intact is in India's interest, i consider off his rocker and ill informed.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Jun 2011 11:56

Nandu wrote:
Gagan wrote:Old video about one minister getting caught in a raid on a whorehouse in Pakistan.
The said netaji is arrested and is wearing a suit and tie all nice and decent.
The guy mentions that several chinese women have been caught in this and other raids and they have all been deported.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaO0MVVuWyI

Pak-Cheeni dosti is indeed deeper than ...
Gagan, IIRC, that was a Baloch minister set up by the ISI because he questioned Mushy's murder of Akbar Khan Bugti.

Hmm, I was wondering what was going on too with this thing coming up on David Luckman's show. That guy is 400% a dimwit and an ISI stooge.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Jun 2011 12:17

Former Foreign Secretary Shri Shyam Saran and Steve Coll (video)

Audio

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Jun 2011 12:53

The audio is a bit too low on that video.
It is possible to boost that volume if one has VLC media player installed and opening that video on VLC and then boosting the volume with 'ctrl+up'.

The video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8aN7cYnyJo

Kanishka · Post by **Kanishka** » 08 Jun 2011 14:37

Intellectuals call for international intervention in Balochistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNDuu0b39xs

Not sure if this was posted before.
Read the comments as well.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 08 Jun 2011 14:39

Drone strike kills 19 in North Waziristan

PESHAWAR: At least nineteen people were killed after a drone targeted a compound in North Waziristan on Wednesday.
Express 24/7 correspondent, Iftikhar Firdous reported that a drone had fired four missiles on a compound in the Zawai Narai area of Shawal tehsil.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Jun 2011 14:58

Steve coll on Pakistan, OBL etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ5eDc0PQbQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMqVF4mdmsk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2dh9ZoZwDw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7gxeVfjums

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8B1fhwGyfg

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Jun 2011 15:17

The Battle for Afghanistan and Pakistan

Panel discussion from New America Foundation. This is dated pre-Abottabad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK-0WUhA2FI

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 08 Jun 2011 15:35

We need more such images from Terroristan.

Punjab goes dry on fuel

ISLAMABAD/LAHORE - Problems caused by the closure of Attock Refinery because of a technical fault were compounded when the Byco Refinery was shut down for non-payment of circular debt, resulting in a severe petroleum shortage across the country on Tuesday that left citizens stranded on roads after they ran out of petrol – ironically while searching for petrol - particularly in Punjab and the federal capital.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Jun 2011 15:50

shiv wrote:Long Live Pakistan China friendship

Yes, long live that "strange bedfellows" friendship.

China proposes $15bn Indus dam scheme

China’s Three Gorges Project Corporation has proposed a $15bn hydropower scheme to Pakistan to dam the Indus river valley at several points, in a project aimed at controlling floods and tackling electricity shortages, Pakistan’s natural resources minister said on Tuesday

Whereas, Three Gorges Dam Is Said to Hurt Areas Downstream

A Chinese official says the planners of the Three Gorges Dam failed to properly gauge its effects on lakes and other bodies of water downstream

Someone will be getting his 10%. Allah knows best.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Jun 2011 16:01

From the nutty land, here's a new one (it seems tha pakis have found their new alter egos in them eyerainians): US drones using 'deadly chemical materials'

Pakistani physicians and experts reported that the US uses chemical munitions in its drone attacks on the country's civilians, Iranian news agency Fars reported Wednesday.

Given the fact that the Pakistani civilians who have come under the US drone attacks have been afflicted with different skin, optic and respiratory diseases, it can be concluded that Washington is using chemical weapons in its attacks in Pakistan, the physicians said. Nobel prize-worthy deduction

"Since the missiles launched by the US drones contain dangerous chemical substances, a large number of the injured people in these attacks cannot be declared as dead or alive since they have been afflicted with complicated diseases due to the deadly chemical materials used in the missiles," a Pakistani physician, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told FNA.

Whom God wishes to destroy he first turns mad. (Euripides, 425 BC)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jun 2011 16:21

anupmisra wrote:From the nutty land, here's a new one (it seems tha pakis have found their new alter egos in them eyerainians): US drones using 'deadly chemical materials'

Whom God wishes to destroy he first turns mad. (Euripides, 425 BC)

Here is a video of Pakistanis complaining about the attacks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_8TnRPHDCQ

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 08 Jun 2011 17:59

anupmisra wrote:From the nutty land, here's a new one (it seems tha pakis have found their new alter egos in them eyerainians): US drones using 'deadly chemical materials'

Pakistani physicians and experts reported that the US uses chemical munitions in its drone attacks on the country's civilians, Iranian news agency Fars reported Wednesday.
Given the fact that the Pakistani civilians who have come under the US drone attacks have been afflicted with different skin, optic and respiratory diseases, it can be concluded that Washington is using chemical weapons in its attacks in Pakistan, the physicians said. Nobel prize-worthy deduction
"Since the missiles launched by the US drones contain dangerous chemical substances, a large number of the injured people in these attacks cannot be declared as dead or alive since they have been afflicted with complicated diseases due to the deadly chemical materials used in the missiles," a Pakistani physician, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told FNA.
Whom God wishes to destroy he first turns mad. (Euripides, 425 BC)

Good one. Phase I (mad) is almost complete.

Waiting for Phase II (destroy)