Su-30: News and Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 May 2011 21:20

I think we use the Elta EL2060 on some M2k, Jaguar and su30.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 May 2011 22:08

^^
Jaguar & Mirage-2000 may carry external SAR pod. But I am pretty sure that BARS has SAR mode. Will try to find some link tomorrow.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 May 2011 22:12

yes it has SAR mode, but the israeli pod likely has better resolution and being side looking, easier to sweep a search box than using a fwd facing radar of more limited azimuth...same reason why most platforms like JSTARs/ASTOR use side looking radar panels.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 04 May 2011 06:18

Avik wrote:Not really true. What Bareilly airbase really has is a specialized lab for developing and analysing photos....

That is right. But Elta 2060 would have far better resolution/capability than the SAR mode of Bars. There are photos of Su30s with Elta, AFAIK..

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 08 May 2011 22:25

Failure to locate crash site raises security questions

Sukhoi-30 and ISRO’s mapping provided seven probable sites of the crash of the ill-fated helicopter. Two such sites were inside the territory of Bhutan. Naga GG in West Kameng district was identified as the most probable site.

But the wreckage of the helicopter carrying Khandu and four others, which went missing on Saturday, was found in Luguthang area in Tawang district on Wednesday. The place was not on the list of the probable sites.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 09 May 2011 03:05

There was a discussion on MKI numbers a few pages ago and one issue discussed was the status of the 2007 order from Russia for 40 a/c. According to SIPRI Arms Transfer Database that was a direct order from Russia and is being assembled from kits in India and as of mid 2010 (latest data that SIPRI has) 26 of 40 a/c have been delivered. And of the 140 a/c that are being license produced 76 have been delivered as of the same date. Reproducing those lines from a report I generated from the database below. For those who havent used this before, reports are very easy to generate. Just log into SIPRI website and go to Arms Transfer database and you can generate customised reports. Sorry for repeating for those who already know.

Supplier/ Year Year(s) No.
recipient (R) No. Weapon Weapon of order/ of delivered/
or licenser (L) ordered designation description licence deliveries produced Comments

Russia

R: India
40 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2007 2009-2010 (26) $1.5-1.6 b deal; Su-30MKI version; assembled from kits in India; delivery 2009-2011/2012

Russia

L : India

140 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2000 2004-2010 (75) $3-5.4 b deal; Su-30MKI version; delivery 2004-2014/2015

Sorry, I did try to format this better but couldnt.

Jamie Boscardin · Post by **Jamie Boscardin** » 09 May 2011 23:21

Gumjum Haider, secretary general of North East Students Organisation (NESO), said the failure of the IAF’s most advanced fighter aircraft Sukhoi, Army, ITBP and IRSO’s satellite services had exposed the true state of Indian security agencies.
“With such incapable forces, we are not safe. If tomorrow China attacks Arunchal Pradesh then we will be overrun by the Chinese army. The government of India will not do anything for the people here,” said Haider.

So, now we have 2 genuine cases, wherein we deployed the MKI's and what they found out as probable crash sites, were nowhere near where the wreckage was found. A very very serious issue and one might raise a question that are the MKI's good at ground attack role with the current configuration?
God forbid, they bomb a target and it ends up as a vegetable plantation rather than the enemy column.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 May 2011 04:17

Foliage plays tricks with conventional radars. This is why GOI asked to DRDO to work on the FOPEN project, with a product required ASAP, which means that they were exploring customizing a ready system to Indian requirements. DRDO will adopt the radar to Indian platforms like the Dhruv etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic ... RDE_Radars

16.FOPEN radar: New project announced in 2009. Foliage Penetration radar intended to track movement of men and vehicles under foliage. To be fitted on aircraft, range of approximately 30 km. Intended to be developed by 2012-13.

This is the CARABAS radar being offered by SAAB which DRDO is looking to customize
http://www.stratpost.com/saab-offers-dr ... ound-radar

They already tested competing Israeli, western systems which didnt work out per our needs.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/govt- ... ts/641253/
http://www.s188567700.online.de/forum/i ... 4c2a256b62

Given the number of requirements (more than a dozen projects at LRDE alone) and the need to field ready equipment ASAP, this is a pragmatic approach, relying on a own tech for critical projects (eg surveillance radars), JVs for some others (eg LCA Tx/Rx modules for AESA) & adapting OTS solutions where available for programs with very short TAT for critical needs (FOPEN etc).
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... Name=India

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 10 May 2011 04:34

So, now we have 2 genuine cases, wherein we deployed the MKI's and what they found out as probable crash sites, were nowhere near where the wreckage was found. A very very serious issue and one might raise a question that are the MKI's good at ground attack role with the current configuration?
God forbid, they bomb a target and it ends up as a vegetable plantation rather than the enemy column.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 May 2011 06:04

Surya wrote:
So, now we have 2 genuine cases, wherein we deployed the MKI's and what they found out as probable crash sites, were nowhere near where the wreckage was found. A very very serious issue and one might raise a question that are the MKI's good at ground attack role with the current configuration?
God forbid, they bomb a target and it ends up as a vegetable plantation rather than the enemy column.

My comments in the following 2 posts
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1086671
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1086719

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 10 May 2011 06:39

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main49.asp ... THEAST.asp

Northeast’s Bermuda Triangle

SIXTY-SIX PERSONS, including ministers, bureaucrats and armed forces personnel, have been killed in air crashes in the Northeast in the past 10 years. Of that number, at least 47 have perished in the tricky terrains of Arunachal Pradesh and the count keeps on rising. It has always been low-flying aircraft and helicopters that have met with disaster in the region. With Arunachal Pradesh Chief Minister Dorjee Khandu’s chopper still missing (till the time of going to press), the mystery surrounding the Arunachal death trap has intensified further........

Patrick Cusack · Post by **Patrick Cusack** » 10 May 2011 07:02

"SIXTY-SIX PERSONS, including ministers, bureaucrats and armed forces personnel, have been killed in air crashes in the Northeast in the past 10 years. Of that number, at least 47 have perished in the tricky terrains of Arunachal Pradesh and the count keeps on rising. It has always been low-flying aircraft and helicopters that have met with disaster in the region. With Arunachal Pradesh Chief Minister Dorjee Khandu’s chopper still missing (till the time of going to press), the mystery surrounding the Arunachal death trap has intensified further........"

Wonder if India will be investigating the possibility that the CM Aurunachal was shot down/

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 May 2011 09:00

Lets not discuss here. There are other threads for it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 May 2011 09:47

there is genuine anger in A.P. over the lethargic and uncoordinated response of GOI vs the emergency "Madam is tracking it personally" mode of ops when YSR went missing.

I believe the wreck was found by villagers from tawang area who trekked to the site in search parties.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 10 May 2011 13:30

Few things to consider in such a plane crash:

It is not possible for any govt to guarantee that every aircraft that flies anywhere in the country can be located after an emergency landing (whether the pilots are incapacitated or not). If the aircraft is flying in VFR conditions and without a fixed (registered) flight path, then this can get very complicated in a difficult terrain. The costs for such a system will be prohibitive. Even the remains of Steve Fossett, a very wealthy individual and a regular at flying and adventure sports in remote areas, were located after an year in Sierra Nevada mountains. US has the resources and the technology, but still wasn't successful in locating him quickly.

Secondly, the travel facilties for states (esp. NE) have improved a lot in last 20 years. State govt. officials now have the resources to travel to remote places where they simply wouldn't venture 20 years ago. Accidents happen. We can only learn from them.

Thirdly, when the bada sahib (politicians, senior officials, celebrities) travels in such aircraft (private charters or resources they oversee) then the pilots are constantly under pressure from sahib to push the boundaries of what should be allowed. For example, there is a DGCA directive for the CM to use only twin engined chopper which is available with the state govt. Do we know why that wasn't the case? Why blame others when you can't follow the rules yourself.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 20 Jun 2011 08:34

Southern Army Commander Undertakes Historical Sukhoi Sortie

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Jun 2011 08:45

historical or historic ? stupid DDM.

p.s. paging Rak-man. see, it's not only qualified pilots who get joyrides.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 21 Jun 2011 19:33

Rahul M wrote:historical or historic ? stupid DDM.

p.s. paging Rak-man. see, it's not only qualified pilots who get joyrides.

I guess they are allowed to fly after all…guess the only thing is you have to be a VVIP to get to fly in one. Wing Commander Sajan – who piloted the aircraft with Lt Gen A K Singh in the back – is the same pilot who flew President Pratibha Patil as well.

So now we have 5 *confirmed* people who have flown in the Rambha;

- President APJ Kalam.
- President Pratibha Patil.
- Admiral Arun Prakash (iirc…someone correct me if I am wrong).
- Lieutenant General A K Singh.
- The young gentleman from the Nat Geo program – Mission Udaan.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 21 Jun 2011 19:43

Rakesh wrote:Admiral Arun Prakash

Ace Pilot. ( Well okay he doesn't have ten kills..) was deputed to the IAF during 71. flew combat sorties.

and then there is Suman Sharma who's flown in the Rambha. Is she a qualified pilot?

sombhat · Post by **sombhat** » 21 Jun 2011 19:46

SaiK wrote:Russia has this joy ride for money? anything like that for desis?

Gromov has this joy ride for all aircraft that it has designed (Mig series). I am not sure any joyride is available for Sukhois. Anyway, we should only have joyrides for the aircraft we designed. Maybe someday, when PV5 and NP1 are old enough and served their purpose, we could have joyrides on them.

No point in having joyrides in aircraft we did not build ourselves.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 22 Jun 2011 01:45

D Roy wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Admiral Arun Prakash
Ace Pilot. ( Well okay he doesn't have ten kills..) was deputed to the IAF during 71. flew combat sorties.
and then there is Suman Sharma who's flown in the Rambha. Is she a qualified pilot?

Ms Suman Sharma (Chindits) did not fly in Rambha.. she flew in a Ru SU30... not a Desi Rambha!!!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 Jun 2011 20:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girunIWSyds

Not sure if the above video has been posted before. Can someone tell me if scene @ 3:44 is inside a Phalcon AWACS?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Jun 2011 20:42

Rakesh wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girunIWSyds

Not sure if the above video has been posted before. Can someone tell me if scene @ 3:44 is inside a Phalcon AWACS?

No.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jun 2011 21:27

These are the known folks. There could be others on sensitive missions.

---------

BTW, its an important ride. The SC Chief got first hand view of Su 30 and IAF capabilities.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 29 Jun 2011 22:33

Rahul M wrote:historical or historic ? stupid DDM.

p.s. paging Rak-man. see, it's not only qualified pilots who get joyrides.

From Livefist --> Lt Gen S R Ghosh, GOC Western Command, in a flight suit with a Jaguar patch

http://twitpic.com/4wq83p

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Jun 2011 22:47

Perks of being a Lt Gen , get a free joy ride in aircraft of your choice.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jun 2011 01:40

Austin,
Something is cooking. Its not joy rides. The Army commanders want to see for themselves the IAF capability. This is new.

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 30 Jun 2011 05:26

Just curious... I thought at least the Sukhois would be able to fly without ground control guiding them ?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jun 2011 05:40

may be special ops squadrons would like to know about MKI as mini AWACs / support role for something like Geronimo being planned?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Jun 2011 06:02

sawant wrote:Just curious... I thought at least the Sukhois would be able to fly without ground control guiding them ?

sorry but where does this come from ?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 04 Jul 2011 03:23

I know that this is not an IAF aircraft but it was too good a picture to be ignored.
Source: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showth ... 713&page=4

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jul 2011 05:38

Gaur wrote: I know that this is not an IAF aircraft but it was too good a picture to be ignored.
Source: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showth ... 713&page=4

The photo does not have the slightest distortion behind the exhaust caused by hot gases. This could be a photoshopped image. The "ghost image" at bottom left is odd - some kind of reflection.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Jul 2011 05:59

file data is consistent with a camera shot, pentax to be exact.

the ghost image is the underside of the bridge.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Jul 2011 07:31

That ghost like image is (supposedly) the pressure wave from the plane, certainly not the under side of the bridge.

We can see the reflection of ALL the bridge supports, but not the under side of the bridge itself (any where).

This is a fake as far as I can tell.

(Besides, since it is not a MKI, it should go in the international thread.)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Jul 2011 07:40

The reflection of the underside of the bridge should correspond to the point where the road joins the original bridge. It does not. The photo may be an image of a photoshopped original.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 04 Jul 2011 07:43

Also there is reflection of a bigger object at the bottom left next to the gray patch.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Jul 2011 07:50

looking at it again, it is a shot of a display board and the grey patch is reflection of something, possibly a model TEL type vehicle. I have a little experience with image editing to say that this is definitely not an outright PS-job.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 04 Jul 2011 08:01

NRao wrote:That ghost like image is (supposedly) the pressure wave from the plane, certainly not the under side of the bridge.

We can see the reflection of ALL the bridge supports, but not the under side of the bridge itself (any where).

This is a fake as far as I can tell.

The ghost image you guys are talking about is most probably a reflection of the photographer on the glass from behind which he is shooting. Have experienced a lot of these "ghost images" whenever i went touring on a volvo and clicked photographs from the inside.

Singh · Post by **Singh** » 04 Jul 2011 08:33

To me the catch here is that there is no distortion or haze whatsoever behind the engine nozzles.... there has to be some kinda haze caused by hot gases. Looks photoshopped

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Jul 2011 08:43

The ghost image you guys are talking about is most probably a reflection of the photographer on the glass from behind which he is shooting.

I can buy that. More than likely that is what it is.