Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
On popular demand and Singhaji's order, i have been authorised to release advance information on the latest development in mechanised infantry transportation system.
1. this is the basic version for mechanised infantry: http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/04/23/offro ... ank-chair/
2. This is the Special Forces version: http://elitechoice.org/2008/01/09/15000 ... pecial-rue.[/quote]
Are you taking orders, where do I sign up?
1. this is the basic version for mechanised infantry: http://www.ohgizmo.com/2006/04/23/offro ... ank-chair/
2. This is the Special Forces version: http://elitechoice.org/2008/01/09/15000 ... pecial-rue.[/quote]
Are you taking orders, where do I sign up?
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
India conducts trials on its Arjun MBT MK-II
The defence establishment of the country will be keeping a close watch as India’s Main Battle Tank Arjun Mark II, which can fire missiles to destroy long range targets, goes through trials in the dessert environs of Pokharan.
The pre-induction trials, which started Saturday, are about the efficacy of scientific and technological up gradation of features of Arjun II, which is under developmental phase.
“Such trials will be undertaken quite frequently till the time it is handed over to the Army,” said Col SD Goswami, Defence spokesperson.
Weighing 62 tonnes each, the Army has placed an order for 124 such tanks at a cost of Rs 5,000 crore.
DRDO is working on Arjun Mark II at the CVRDE (Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment) with an immediate task of demonstrating it to the user and ensure the delivery of the first batch comprising 30 tanks by 2013-14.
One of the vital features of the tank is that a missile can be fired from it to destroy long range targets and bring down helicopters. It is also equipped with a panoramic night vision.
The tank will also have an automatic target tracking system, which will add to accuracy while firing on a moving
The defence establishment of the country will be keeping a close watch as India’s Main Battle Tank Arjun Mark II, which can fire missiles to destroy long range targets, goes through trials in the dessert environs of Pokharan.
The pre-induction trials, which started Saturday, are about the efficacy of scientific and technological up gradation of features of Arjun II, which is under developmental phase.
“Such trials will be undertaken quite frequently till the time it is handed over to the Army,” said Col SD Goswami, Defence spokesperson.
Weighing 62 tonnes each, the Army has placed an order for 124 such tanks at a cost of Rs 5,000 crore.
DRDO is working on Arjun Mark II at the CVRDE (Combat Vehicles Research & Development Establishment) with an immediate task of demonstrating it to the user and ensure the delivery of the first batch comprising 30 tanks by 2013-14.
One of the vital features of the tank is that a missile can be fired from it to destroy long range targets and bring down helicopters. It is also equipped with a panoramic night vision.
The tank will also have an automatic target tracking system, which will add to accuracy while firing on a moving
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
What does Pre-Induction trials mean?Has CVRDE built couple of tanks and is testing out along with the Army? In June we were told that "Testing has started" .. Any Paanwala information on this?sameer_shelavale wrote:India conducts trials on its Arjun MBT MK-II
The pre-induction trials, which started Saturday, are about the efficacy of scientific and technological up gradation of features of Arjun II, which is under developmental phase.
One of the vital features of the tank is that a missile can be fired from it to destroy long range targets and bring down helicopters. It is also equipped with a panoramic night vision.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
my guess would be the new Mk2 chassis and turret is not yet made, but they are testing rest of new features using a couple of modified Mk1 vehicles....the Mk1 for instance had already demoed lahat, new comms gear/BMS, commander CITV, self protection sensors etc can all be tested out using Mk1.
even the new engine and gearbox can be tried on a Mk1 as the engine bay volume likely is the same for Mk2.
even the new engine and gearbox can be tried on a Mk1 as the engine bay volume likely is the same for Mk2.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
I wonder if instead of a manned turret on FICV, a unmanned turret with a 20mm cannon firing a mix of automatically fed rounds (HE, KE, anti-helicopter) and a 0.50cal HMG, is the way to go? as it is the sdre thin turrets of ICVs hardly afford any extra advantage of protection vs sitting inside the hull.
the saving on turret can be used to improve the hull and top armour.
sometimes even a robotech type twin 20mm cannon loadout can be tried for a dedicated fire support/AAA vehicle, using the space in back for extra ammo and a small phased array radar atop middle of turret...a kind of next gen ZSU-23-2 ... our 23-4 must be getting long in the tooth by now.
the saving on turret can be used to improve the hull and top armour.
sometimes even a robotech type twin 20mm cannon loadout can be tried for a dedicated fire support/AAA vehicle, using the space in back for extra ammo and a small phased array radar atop middle of turret...a kind of next gen ZSU-23-2 ... our 23-4 must be getting long in the tooth by now.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
I agree with you singha ji.Singha wrote:my guess would be the new Mk2 chassis and turret is not yet made, but they are testing rest of new features using a couple of modified Mk1 vehicles.....
Turret design is very less likely to be changed so quickly. but we may see add-on ERA(or NERA) plates.
Now we can expect the tank to look more decorated with gadgets
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
These are systems trials. The user trials will be done mid 2012.What does Pre-Induction trials mean?Has CVRDE built couple of tanks and is testing out along with the Army? In June we were told that "Testing has started" .. Any Paanwala information on this?
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
^^^ Thanks Rajan and Singha, Hopefully IA raises all it queries now and gets it resolved soon. The User trials should literally be a trials to give the users some hands on experience before actual induction and not a "Trial of fire" or a "Trial and error" process stretching for years.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
How are these trials different from the T90 faceoff test? a trial after trial
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
These trials are for the MkII version. The T-90 faced off against the MkI (and still came out second best)AdityaM wrote:How are these trials different from the T90 faceoff test? a trial after trial
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
with IMI involvement in Mk2, we can expect Lahat integration, good countermeasures, CITV and BMS for sure.
with any luck, the much desired "sloping turret" either Leo2A5+ or Merkava style can be worked out..might even increase some interior room along the sides for electronics and other kit.
and ofcourse merkava style LCD panels and rear parking cameras would be good for psyops if nothing else
electrically charged armour to defeat RPG/LAW warheads is another area to explore, if the simpler rod grating is not desired....
a tidy remote weapon station for the commander with day/night optics is a must to prevent being targeted by sniper or wounded by shrapnel...need not be as fancy as the M1 TUSK which likely costs a bomb and has 200 features and hotlink to f22 and b2.
with any luck, the much desired "sloping turret" either Leo2A5+ or Merkava style can be worked out..might even increase some interior room along the sides for electronics and other kit.
and ofcourse merkava style LCD panels and rear parking cameras would be good for psyops if nothing else
electrically charged armour to defeat RPG/LAW warheads is another area to explore, if the simpler rod grating is not desired....
a tidy remote weapon station for the commander with day/night optics is a must to prevent being targeted by sniper or wounded by shrapnel...need not be as fancy as the M1 TUSK which likely costs a bomb and has 200 features and hotlink to f22 and b2.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Singha, I wonder why Desh never attempted a remote weapons station for any platform, we could have them in MBTs, APC/ICVs, ISCG Patrol crafts, ICG Cutters, IN Patrol Boats etc. The operator could shoot from an armoured enclosure and fire away based on inputs from different sources.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Mk2 has Lahat (demoed even in MK1), many of these other bells & whistles have to wait for MK3 (if there is one) or FMBT (if there is one). My bet would be, Desh would go for MK2, MK3 and so on for a decade or more and then only Army would finalize on the FMBT. Induction might take some more years.Singha wrote:with IMI involvement in Mk2, we can expect Lahat integration, good countermeasures, CITV and BMS for sure.
with any luck, the much desired "sloping turret" either Leo2A5+ or Merkava style can be worked out..might even increase some interior room along the sides for electronics and other kit.
and ofcourse merkava style LCD panels and rear parking cameras would be good for psyops if nothing else
electrically charged armour to defeat RPG/LAW warheads is another area to explore, if the simpler rod grating is not desired....
a tidy remote weapon station for the commander with day/night optics is a must to prevent being targeted by sniper or wounded by shrapnel...need not be as fancy as the M1 TUSK which likely costs a bomb and has 200 features and hotlink to f22 and b2.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
^^^
actually these "bells and whistles" are scheduled for Mk II
http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-arm ... nents.html
actually these "bells and whistles" are scheduled for Mk II
http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-arm ... nents.html
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
aren't. that's BS news.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Check whom you are quoting? is it reliable...khukri wrote:^^^
actually these "bells and whistles" are scheduled for Mk II
http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-arm ... nents.html
The following are getting added in MK2
1) Battle Field Management System (BFMS)
2) Arjun MBT will feature an “Auto Tracker.” - not confirmed
3) Defensive aid like Shotra system for Arjun Tank is getting developed.
4) An 81mm Anti-laser and Anti-thermal Screening Smoke Grenade is also going to be featured.
5) The Lahat missile’s laser designator module will be integrated into fire control computer.
Most importantly There will not be any revolutionary physical changes on the Arjun MBT platform.
I summarized from an article by our beloved CJ. I referred to the LCD panels and rear parking cameras, electrically charged armour to defeat RPG/LAW warheads, remote weapon station for the commander with day/night optics as bells and whistles.
the Idea in Mk-II is to quickly fix some of the easy items, achieve some low hanging fruits and secure some more orders (My Opinion). IMHO, it is a compromise for both IA and DRDO (My Opinion), the imperative is to get sufficient quantities into play (Again My Opinion).
ince, no GSQR exists for this, nothing is concrete, Jingos are making a list based on infrequent statements from DRDO / CVRDE etc.
Last edited by Shrinivasan on 26 Jul 2011 15:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Rahul Khukri didn't know PS == BSRahul M wrote:aren't. that's BS news.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
boss, could you not make consecutive posts ? you can say the same thing in the earlier post.
it increases thread page unnecessarily.
it increases thread page unnecessarily.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=14988
The upgraded version of Arjun, which has been fitted with 58 tonne German engine, was inducted in the Indian Army over a year ago.
Now, it is time BR Webmasters give serious thoughts into linking such news.
--
Alright... where is the pic?
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Wasnt the engine this time supposed to be Indian?
though I wonder who in India has the capability to manufacture own engine. I guess there was talk of Cummins bringing the 800 HP + engine to India. Any one has connected-dots view?
though I wonder who in India has the capability to manufacture own engine. I guess there was talk of Cummins bringing the 800 HP + engine to India. Any one has connected-dots view?
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otZw9_1n ... ion_723766
what do armour gurus think of the german army Fennek from KMW as a wheeled light recce vehicle?..this is something we sorely lack unless you consider the jonga as the equivalent in the IA!
looks way better to me than the crapware hummer (with hajji armour) kind of rice n fish shack vehicles.
remote weapon station , raisable optronic mast upto 13ft, BMS to transfer target data, full NBC protection, full x-country capabilities, 1000km range, 110kmph top speed, crisp and effective looking german style controls, run flat tires with monitoring and adjustment system, rear camera ...
what do armour gurus think of the german army Fennek from KMW as a wheeled light recce vehicle?..this is something we sorely lack unless you consider the jonga as the equivalent in the IA!
looks way better to me than the crapware hummer (with hajji armour) kind of rice n fish shack vehicles.
remote weapon station , raisable optronic mast upto 13ft, BMS to transfer target data, full NBC protection, full x-country capabilities, 1000km range, 110kmph top speed, crisp and effective looking german style controls, run flat tires with monitoring and adjustment system, rear camera ...
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
I think looking at Fennek with a amateurish observation...It is the go between the hummer class and bigger class which are equipped to directly go to war...
Hummer is more of a military police, Fennek can be used as lone wolf scout, which is self sufficient to defend and run away...They both have their own role...I guess Fennek came out after realizing where hummer type is deficient and can not be improved by simply upgrading the armer.
added later
another thing is that Fennek can not really carry too many persons in it...but it can fill a large amount of support for a crew of 3-4, whereas hummer is moreover a personnel carrying vehicle in fringe area of combat, not in midst of it, so there is tactical divergence between the two vehicles...I might be wrong though.
Hummer is more of a military police, Fennek can be used as lone wolf scout, which is self sufficient to defend and run away...They both have their own role...I guess Fennek came out after realizing where hummer type is deficient and can not be improved by simply upgrading the armer.
added later
another thing is that Fennek can not really carry too many persons in it...but it can fill a large amount of support for a crew of 3-4, whereas hummer is moreover a personnel carrying vehicle in fringe area of combat, not in midst of it, so there is tactical divergence between the two vehicles...I might be wrong though.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
beautiful machine
one reason why german recce troops frequently manage to get around their opposition during NATO exercises.
one reason why german recce troops frequently manage to get around their opposition during NATO exercises.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Man, I saw that vid about the Fennec and fell in infatuation with it.
Germany is to armor what India is to spirituality
Germany is to armor what India is to spirituality
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Mechanical engineering boss.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Negi, oucchhhh!! You are so right, as usual.
Man, I am in luvvvvv with Germany. They have these set ups where they can get diploma (in Indian eqvt) get hands on experience, set up their own compnay etc and provide excellent stuff what it takes a SME in India to give. Amazing man...
Thales, EADS hold "Open Days" for SMEs to share their ideas..
Panzer IV/Leopard/TigerI and II/ Leopard 1, 2- A4,A5,6,7- "bows in respect to German armour"
I know Nazis and all- thats a huge black mark, but man these guys defined armour warfare...
German tank aces
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oG1LBNPDxo
Michael Wittmann
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyu1r70VVb0
Instead of depending on Russia for T-xx, the Germans make Leopard. May my country understand what Arjuns are. Or Karans
Man, I am in luvvvvv with Germany. They have these set ups where they can get diploma (in Indian eqvt) get hands on experience, set up their own compnay etc and provide excellent stuff what it takes a SME in India to give. Amazing man...
Thales, EADS hold "Open Days" for SMEs to share their ideas..
Panzer IV/Leopard/TigerI and II/ Leopard 1, 2- A4,A5,6,7- "bows in respect to German armour"
I know Nazis and all- thats a huge black mark, but man these guys defined armour warfare...
German tank aces
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oG1LBNPDxo
Michael Wittmann
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyu1r70VVb0
Instead of depending on Russia for T-xx, the Germans make Leopard. May my country understand what Arjuns are. Or Karans
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Israel had Israel Tal for Merkava....in India, the local guys have to jump through hoops for support..
Panther had weak armour, exposed tanks (flammability) in order to be the German equivalent to T-34, yet even at wartime (zero margin for error), less than a tenth of the criticism directed at Indian efforts.
Wait for the day, Indian cavalry decides power resides w/in India, not Russia
Panther had weak armour, exposed tanks (flammability) in order to be the German equivalent to T-34, yet even at wartime (zero margin for error), less than a tenth of the criticism directed at Indian efforts.
Wait for the day, Indian cavalry decides power resides w/in India, not Russia
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
not just fennec but their other vehicles like boxer and dingo are pretty smooth looking too. I find their fleet to be the best looking one among the EU part of nato.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxO1cho97jY
just look at the rafaleish interior of the boxer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBDKBgZf ... re=related
these people have a natural talent for steel beasts the way french have a talent for winemaking and maths.
from the dingo video note how they use the gepard 2x AA vehicle as a camp protection asset - I guess its EO system works for ground targets too...and those AA cannons can likely shred any faithfools trying to creep up out to a range of around 4km.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxO1cho97jY
just look at the rafaleish interior of the boxer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBDKBgZf ... re=related
these people have a natural talent for steel beasts the way french have a talent for winemaking and maths.
from the dingo video note how they use the gepard 2x AA vehicle as a camp protection asset - I guess its EO system works for ground targets too...and those AA cannons can likely shred any faithfools trying to creep up out to a range of around 4km.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Pictures of the Arjun Mk II Version are badly needed to quench the undying thirst this man
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Its not just designing and building the Germans are good - even the maintenance
I have gone past many a German depot (bus, electric company) and nary a oil spot on sight.
Don't mentione the Boxer
Rohit and I might start crying.
Sigh .. the dream of our infantry in a long line of wheeled IFVs
I have gone past many a German depot (bus, electric company) and nary a oil spot on sight.
Don't mentione the Boxer
Rohit and I might start crying.
Sigh .. the dream of our infantry in a long line of wheeled IFVs
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
^^^
This is a dream that even I have. To an extent that I have told my kompani that using the ingeneering background that they have. They can easily build an 8x8 APC. But they are content with their share of the farming tools market.
The IA in the absence of a domestic product will pick up strikers onlee.
This is a dream that even I have. To an extent that I have told my kompani that using the ingeneering background that they have. They can easily build an 8x8 APC. But they are content with their share of the farming tools market.
The IA in the absence of a domestic product will pick up strikers onlee.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
not sure on the pic.. there are many pics that are floating around resemnling t90s to japanese type 10 tanks look alike for arjun mk2. it must the works of pakis.
imho, it should not be any diff looking other than this one
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g6jDhOXspGQ/T ... un+Mk1.jpg
imho, it should not be any diff looking other than this one
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g6jDhOXspGQ/T ... un+Mk1.jpg
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
If you observe the wheels of the two tanks parked next to one another are different although both of them are Arjun.SaiK wrote:not sure on the pic.. there are many pics that are floating around resemnling t90s to japanese type 10 tanks look alike for arjun mk2. it must the works of pakis.
imho, it should not be any diff looking other than this one
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g6jDhOXspGQ/T ... un+Mk1.jpg
Also the naming convention seems to be different (P vs CV).
Can some one throw some light on this.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
^^rumours are floating around stating that Israel is helping in redesigning the turret.
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Looks like the Tank-Ex.
Now the latest news on Arjun
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/tr ... 23301.html
the Mark-II versions of the tanks would have more than 90 modifications in its systems.
Special attention is being paid to the chassis of the tanks to give it speed and extra manoeuvrability over all the terrains.
Compared to the Mark-I variant, the tanks would have an enhanced Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) with a capacity of 8.5 kilowatt, digital control harness, Advanced Land Navigation Systems (ALNS) and Advanced Commander Panaromic Sight (ACPS).
http://tv.vtc.vn/594-295797/ban-ban-tin ... n-mkii.htm
Now the latest news on Arjun
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/tr ... 23301.html
the Mark-II versions of the tanks would have more than 90 modifications in its systems.
Special attention is being paid to the chassis of the tanks to give it speed and extra manoeuvrability over all the terrains.
Compared to the Mark-I variant, the tanks would have an enhanced Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) with a capacity of 8.5 kilowatt, digital control harness, Advanced Land Navigation Systems (ALNS) and Advanced Commander Panaromic Sight (ACPS).
http://tv.vtc.vn/594-295797/ban-ban-tin ... n-mkii.htm
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
CV 402 is Tank-EX
May be a nice replacement for T-72's in Vietnamese Army.
It's time that we provide this tank as a replacement for T-72's for those armies that still use soviet doctrine of armored warfare. A tank that's light and cheap but with the protection and firepower of Arjun.
May be a nice replacement for T-72's in Vietnamese Army.
It's time that we provide this tank as a replacement for T-72's for those armies that still use soviet doctrine of armored warfare. A tank that's light and cheap but with the protection and firepower of Arjun.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Every project has consultants. Even your building has been built with consultants, builders, Engineers etc.Gurinder P wrote:^^rumours are floating around stating that Israel is helping in redesigning the turret.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
My response was to Saik who said that the tank shouldn't look different than the Mk.I.chackojoseph wrote:Every project has consultants. Even your building has been built with consultants, builders, Engineers etc.Gurinder P wrote:^^rumours are floating around stating that Israel is helping in redesigning the turret.
It had nothing to do with consultants or anything
Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread
Those Fennek/Dingo/Boxer vids are nice - esp Fennek.
Question is - can they perform from +50 deg C to -30 deg C. If a vehicle is built/released from a store in say Chennai or Pune - could it be sent to either Rajasthan or Leh with no modifications? If a sudden emergency crops in in the Leh region - would the vehicles be transportable from Rajasthan to Leh without modification?
If lubricants have to be changed for operation in 40 deg plus temps as opposed to minus 10 deg, how long does the operation take? Would the airconditioning system need modification for this sort of variation? For a NATO country the vehicle is taken as a "deployment" to an area such as Iraq or Afghanistan where the local weather conditions are taken into account and the vehicle readied. But India has so many geographic regions.
Those beautiful sensors - what about LRUs for them? Would they be standard off the shelf products or custom built by Zinggbingockzeichswerken GMBH for the German army making it necessary to outsource to them and them alone.
Question is - can they perform from +50 deg C to -30 deg C. If a vehicle is built/released from a store in say Chennai or Pune - could it be sent to either Rajasthan or Leh with no modifications? If a sudden emergency crops in in the Leh region - would the vehicles be transportable from Rajasthan to Leh without modification?
If lubricants have to be changed for operation in 40 deg plus temps as opposed to minus 10 deg, how long does the operation take? Would the airconditioning system need modification for this sort of variation? For a NATO country the vehicle is taken as a "deployment" to an area such as Iraq or Afghanistan where the local weather conditions are taken into account and the vehicle readied. But India has so many geographic regions.
Those beautiful sensors - what about LRUs for them? Would they be standard off the shelf products or custom built by Zinggbingockzeichswerken GMBH for the German army making it necessary to outsource to them and them alone.