Indian Army: News & Discussion

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Jul 2011 15:15

----OPEN QUESTION--------

Does anyone in Desh have the book - "The Wat That Never Was" by Ravi?

The one on Amazon is USD 70+shipping.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 28 Jul 2011 17:23

Kashmir "rape" case: Man instigated frustrated woman to blame army.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Kashmir-r ... 26492.aspx

sum · Post by **sum** » 28 Jul 2011 17:26

rohitvats wrote:----OPEN QUESTION--------

Does anyone in Desh have the book - "The Wat That Never Was" by Ravi?

The one on Amazon is USD 70+shipping.

Same here....checked on it after reading about it here and outrageous prices are quoted.

Could someone kindly help ( or even point to a e-book if available)?

manum · Post by **manum** » 28 Jul 2011 19:48

sum wrote:
rohitvats wrote:----OPEN QUESTION--------

Does anyone in Desh have the book - "The Wat That Never Was" by Ravi?

The one on Amazon is USD 70+shipping.
Same here....checked on it after reading about it here and outrageous prices are quoted.

Could someone kindly help ( or even point to a e-book if available)?

http://www.iabooks.com/servlet/iaGetBiblio?bno=047571

http://www.flipkart.com/books/817001052 ... wv23f99mei

hope it helps

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Jul 2011 22:16

^^^You're hereby granted the 'Most Favorite BRFite Status' for next 1 year.......many thanks!

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 29 Jul 2011 02:35

rohitvats: I am gettting one ordered to be delivered in India. If I do find it, I can buy multiple copies if someone is interested. Will be able to ship it by snail mail in massa land, but only in September. Let me know. Thanks.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Jul 2011 09:00

ShauryaT wrote:rohitvats: I am gettting one ordered to be delivered in India. If I do find it, I can buy multiple copies if someone is interested. Will be able to ship it by snail mail in massa land, but only in September. Let me know. Thanks.

ShauryaT, many thanks for the offer.

I have ordered the book (along with other one written by Ravi) from the link shared by manum. Cost me grand total of INR 500!

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jul 2011 09:09

Rohit-ji
Did you use the IAbooks link ( never heard of this before) since flipkart is showing sold out!!

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 29 Jul 2011 09:12

sum wrote:Rohit-ji
Did you use the IAbooks link ( never heard of this before) since flipkart is showing sold out!!

Yes. And considering the fact that seller is based in Delhi, I can sort out issues, if any, by going to his office onleee

I just need to have those books.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jul 2011 10:42

you mean some of you havent even read the 1984 book ?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Jul 2011 11:05

Received by email

*THE ARMY IS IN SAFE HANDS*

It’s nice to be witnessing regiment level games again after all these years.
As a Commanding Officer of a MP unit, after years of staff postings, I got a
chance to witness the Inter Unit Kabaddi Championships.

Nothing has changed. The flags still flutter from afar pinpointing the
distant arena. Smart regiment RPs indicate the way with a smash of their
heels and a twist of the elbows. The SM receives you with pride to his unit.
The red matting adorned with banners winds its way towards the grand stand.
The same familiar glitz awaits you as everyone gets up to greet you.

There is a buzz around the ground when the teams line up to be broken by the
trumpet announcing the arrival of the Commander. An announcer educates us
that Kabaddi is the national game of Bangladesh and that the word itself is
derived from a Tamil word meaning ’ holding of hands”. The referee in starch
whites asks permission to commence proceedings as we all sit to attention.
With a ‘ let the games begin’ followed by a whistle a huge roar erupts.
Match on.

I hear the old familiar battle cries. I belong to neither team, but I am
hooked. The involvement of each and every member in the audience is so
passionate. As each competitor is knocked to the ground one side goes crazy
as the other groans. This is what we joined the army for. The camaraderie.
The loyalty to unit. It wasn’t just seven members of the team in there but
800 of the unit. With each raider there were 800 bits of advice. The
officers behind me were going hoarse screaming instructions and amazingly
there were feminine voices too.

After the initial prodding one team was slowly gaining an ascendancy over
the other. As their side was getting more vociferous as the other was
waiting for a chance to cheer. By interval time it was getting pretty one
sided and it seemed that the losing side was pretty shaken up. We were well
into the second half when suddenly a lady officer, barely five feet tall
(what’s the minimum height for them?) ran out and asked the referee for a
time out for the losing team.

It was quite contrary. These huge, muddied hulks kind of peering down on
this tiny thing as she coached them in dead earnest. Then they huddled, she
said something and trotted back to her seat in complete confidence, mission
accomplished. In the next few minutes we watched in utmost amazement as the
tables turned. Now it was this units turn to get delirious as their team
recovered lost ground. Men were dancing down the sides and so were the
officers. The commanding officer sat stoically, trying to remain impervious
to the excitement building up, till he lost it when his team won with the
final whistle. He rushed onto the ground and hugged each and every sweaty
team member.

The table drill, the prize distribution, all went off with military
precision. I watched it with pride and nostalgia. After the customary ‘jai
kara’ we walked out to a sumptuous tea. Standing aside with my cup I
surveyed this next generation of officers. Quite by chance, I spotted that
tiny lady officer who had performed that motivational miracle. She was
dwarfed by her group of youngsters, as I went up to her. With a brief
introduction I asked the question that was intriguing me all along.

“What exactly did you tell them to change the game around so definitely”, I
queried.

“Oh that sir” she replied confidently “I just told them that if they lost
any more points I was entering the ground to fight for my unit”

That was it. Keep it simple, silly. I watched in amazement at this lady
officer who meant every word she said. It was time to pass on the baton. The
army is in safe hands.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jul 2011 11:51

Singha wrote:you mean some of you havent even read the 1984 book ?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 29 Jul 2011 18:08

chetak wrote:Received by email

*THE ARMY IS IN SAFE HANDS*

That's a nice heartwarming story.

Ashutosh Malik · Post by **Ashutosh Malik** » 29 Jul 2011 22:42

rohitvats wrote:
sum wrote:Rohit-ji
Did you use the IAbooks link ( never heard of this before) since flipkart is showing sold out!!
Yes. And considering the fact that seller is based in Delhi, I can sort out issues, if any, by going to his office onleee

I just need to have those books.

Rohit,

I have another interesting book that Mr. Rikhye wrote, post or around the time of the de-classification of some American documents (Nixon/ Kissinger related) related to 1971 war and other events like the Enterprise one.

The title is "Defeat by Deception: How Mr. Nixon and the USSR Stole India's 1971 Victory". It is possible that you have this.

Do send me your email ID.

I read the Op. Brasstack (The War that Never Was) in 1989. There was a Gwadar scenario as well - fascinating stuff.

Have been wanting to have it for my library but havent been able to find it. I will also follow up on the link sent by Manum.

Thanks Manum.

Best.
Ashu

abhinavjo · Post by **abhinavjo** » 29 Jul 2011 23:16

Can anyone post ebook links of any such military related books??

manum · Post by **manum** » 30 Jul 2011 00:00

there are thousands of links, you need to be clear about what you are exactly searching for...if there is anything specific, it can be searched upon as an eBook...

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 30 Jul 2011 12:29

Indo-French army drill in October
Times of India

NEW DELHI: After joint naval and air force war games, India and France will now hold an army exercise, 'Shakti', at Chaubatia, near Ranikhet, in September-October. "The exercise between the two armies will basically focus on counter-terrorism," said an official.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 30 Jul 2011 14:28

Singha wrote:you mean some of you havent even read the 1984 book ?

Well i wasn't born for another 3 years after the release of the book but i still feel so

that i haven't read or even heard of that book..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 Jul 2011 22:18

The Peacekeeper’s Child

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 30 Jul 2011 22:42

Is a shame if true.DNA verification will prove a lot that is not easily seen.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Jul 2011 08:25

sanjeevpunj wrote:Is a shame if true.DNA verification will prove a lot that is not easily seen.

For the sake of debate, may I ask what is a shame?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 31 Jul 2011 09:25

The women are taking money for sex, even the ones who are not prostitutes. What's the big deal ? It's not like soldiers are raping them.

Wooed at the time when they were 19-22 years of age, smitten by gifts and romance, and hoping to persuade their Indian lovers to change their mind about marriage, they’d willingly become partners

Also, read this line

Considering the footprint India wants to have in Africa, New Delhi should perhaps think of compensating Congolese women who have given birth to children with distinct Indian features

. How do you define an Indian look anyway ? An Indian can be mongoloid, black, tall, fair and everything in between.
Even Pakis with their pure Arab ancestry look a lot like many Indians. What next, we pay for Paki children too ?

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 31 Jul 2011 10:26

The mighty Russell Peters laid out the master plan of Indian world domination to the world, by India out breeding all threats and compitition and I am surprised people didn't catch on.

Now if you will excuse me, I have a call waiting from my buddy named Hindu Stan.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 31 Jul 2011 10:45

sanjeevpunj wrote:Is a shame if true.DNA verification will prove a lot that is not easily seen.

Sanjeev ji , May I ask what shame.These officers and soldiers didn't rape them .From what I have read in the article it was all consensual.So what is the problem.Sex is a fundamental need of a human being and as long as a person is not indulging in rape , it is ok.

Outlook magazine is creating an issue where none exists.Usual propaganda warfare to discredit Indian Army.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 31 Jul 2011 18:50

^^^And which Outlook excels greatly!!!

And after having read the article, it is as clear a hit-job as sunshine. Betrayal, my foot!

All that those men did was have consensual sex- plain and simple. The women were fully aware of the pros-and-cons and were in it willingly. And let me go out a bit further - given the hardships of life that these women are subjected to in their country, for may, the liason with the officer was a chance to have a share of good life - with an outlying chances of even marrying one of them. It is their hard-luck that it did not turn out this way. It is evident from the article itself that they were not forced in having sex nor that men gave promise of married life in India.And to some how make a connection between affairs between soldiers and these women and soldiers not marrying them and that leading to hardships is pure BS.

To say that Indians (or anyone, for that matter) did anything unethical is pure bunkum. If they are guilty of anything, it is that of violating the UN Charter and standing orders of IA on these matters. And for this, they will be taken care of.

It is simple case of making hay while the sun shines - the women get to make money while outlook gets cheap publicity by ranting against services.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 31 Jul 2011 19:28

exactly the liberal sprinkle of abuse in this article defies logic

maybe deadbeats but not abusive

Also talking of African moral values is laughable - those who have been to Africa - in many parts you have women with children from multiple parents.

suddenly Congo is the bastion of moral values inAfrica - huh??

And what about the other Armies?? I knew Australian and European peace keepers who kept mistresses when serving. Even in Iraq there are many who do that.

Looks like some mining interests managed to find turd at Outlook

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 31 Jul 2011 19:32

^^^ I said IF the (~~rape~~)sexual misconduct allegations are true.The matter is subjudice.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Jul 2011 19:38

what rape allegations ? there are no rape allegations, subjudice or otherwise.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 31 Jul 2011 19:40

Then these inquiries would not be going on- Quoting from the same page.

The charges
The United Nations received complaints of sexual misconduct against a unit of the Sikh Regiment deployed in Congo.
The company was based in Kiwanja, which is in Rutshuru, a region in Congo’s eastern province of North Kivu.
UN’s Office of Internal Oversight Services (OIOS) investigates the charges and reportedly conducts DNA tests on Congolese children with “distinct Indian features”. OIOS establishes prima facie evidence of sexual misconduct.

The Indian army’s court of inquiry
An army court of inquiry, based in Meerut, has been investigating charges of sexual misconduct against 12 officers and 39 soldiers belonging to a unit of the Sikh Regiment for two months now.
It’s headed by Brig M.M. Masru, who has two colonels assisting him.
The CoI has decided in principle to recommend matching of DNA samples of suspected armymen and Congolese children with distinct Indian features. This will help identify the guilty.

If the Army court finds none guilty, then Bally Mutumayi in Goma, Saikat Datta in Delhi, Ashish Kumar Sen in Washington should be charged with false reporting.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Jul 2011 20:33

oh dear, are you even able to understand the article ? the allegations are not of rape, the word does not even occur in the report. the charge is that the soldiers had consensual liaisons with local women which apparently is not allowed by UN. why pass comments when you don't understand the issue in the first place ?

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 31 Jul 2011 20:39

I corrected my statement - its sexual misconduct, not rape.

nitinr · Post by **nitinr** » 31 Jul 2011 20:42

Nope its not. As said soldiers officers if guilty are for voilating code of conduct not sexual abuse. Its amply said in the article. Why are you adding your own version to it???

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Jul 2011 20:49

since when is consensual relations considered 'misconduct' ? by your fabulous logic every husband commits sexual misconduct with his wife.

p.s. on this issue, I think the code of conduct needs to be changed, as it stands now it seems impractical. and I would also support payment of some compensation(determined by GOI) if paternity is proven. just because soldiers from other countries behave like a*holes is no reason for ours to do the same.

p.p.s and oh, use protection ! does that have to be told ? this is africa we are talking about.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 31 Jul 2011 20:56

^^^The lesson I learnt today is "never comment on a link" ever again.I was just saying that DNA verification helps in proving things that are normally not possible to prove by mere statements and counter staatements. The charges are of "sexual misconduct" and paternity if proven,entails a lot of compensation to be coughed up from the father's side. I am glad you mentioned

just because soldiers from other countries behave like a*holes is no reason for ours to do the same.

disha · Post by **disha** » 31 Jul 2011 21:41

sanjeevpunj wrote:^^^The lesson I learnt today is "never comment on a link" ever again.I was just saying that DNA verification helps in proving things that are normally not possible to prove by mere statements and counter staatements. The charges are of "sexual misconduct" and paternity if proven,entails a lot of compensation to be coughed up from the father's side. I am glad you mentioned
just because soldiers from other countries behave like a*holes is no reason for ours to do the same.

First of all the army code of conduct on the above (incl. the UN Charter above on sex) is more of a victorian sexual code of conduct, a totally useless code of conduct.

And second, the Indian army may have its reasons like not having its officers fall for "honey traps"., but beyond security or operational reasons it is personal domain of the individual. The Army should help here by educating its soldiers about the risks, including physical risks and how to be protected. If one reads the article, some women were actually treated properly and some of them have fond memories of their liasons. So all in all the outlook article was a piece of junk attempting to raise a slander.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 31 Jul 2011 21:55

The issue is why this vendetta against the IA

seems motivated here

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 31 Jul 2011 21:55

It is apparently an attempt to slander our forces, could also be a ploy to extract compensation money, and look who else joined in -
NDTV

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/india ... ngo-110764

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 31 Jul 2011 22:03

^^^I'm more worried about the possibility of these men suffering from AIDS than anything else. That can have serious long term repurcussions for the soldier and his family.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 31 Jul 2011 22:09

I keep worrying about our image taking a beating in the global media, but yes, any STD can be picked up by acts of even consensual sex. As Rahul ji says use protection, but a mere drop of fluid from another person is enough to transmit a typical STD.Well this would pull us into OT range,so I will not be commenting further.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 31 Jul 2011 22:20

The onlly thing I would say is that the officers were idiotic. Should have known better. soldiers I understand although the army does give them enough lectures since the disasters in Cambodia. (hint hint to our resident image protector)