J&K News and Discussion-2011

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Aug 2011 23:50

Adlai Stevensons's sojurn in 1953. Google Books link

LINK

Many others can be found in google if interested.....

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Aug 2011 23:54

JE Menon wrote: Not sure what is sad about this... The US is making the claim and its media is accepting the claim. In the case of India, even if it did make the claim about Fai, which it didn't, it would have been ignored by the Western media (or ridiculed) and probably castigated by the Indian media (or supported by some). It is par for the course for Western media to generally support American/British positions in this regard and ignore just about everybody else, or excoriate them.

Sad after watching an Arnab show where he had a couple of KP activists. They claimed that when they mentioned long time back that Fai is an ISI stooge in mufti, they were ridiculed by Indian media as "communal". Lets face it, left right, and center: what US says has enormous credibility in India (except some docJis who can see through US charade

). Tomorrow if US is on India's side, even traitors like A'Roy ans P'Misra will fall in line. P'Misra in his vile diatribes against India often quotes US officials. A'Roy runs butt scared and pukes her bile in the NYT, recall the calls for sedition charges against her after, and she cried victimhood in the NYT.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Aug 2011 23:58

eklavya wrote: No. Its meddling in Cashmere. See the hsitory from Adali Stevenson onwards. Defeated candidates pick on Cashmere to position themselves for US elections/games whatnot.
McCain came by IAF aircraft, from Ladakh (another part of J&K), and met the CM of J&K and GOC 15 Corp: I interpret that as a show of support.

No worries, we can differ on our interpretations.

GOTUS has nothing to do with Kashmir. Americans have to get the message that there is nothing for them.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Aug 2011 00:03

Acharya wrote:GOTUS has nothing to do with Kashmir. Americans have to get the message that there is nothing for them.

Except if it is a question of Chinese encroachment into PoK, and their positioning along LoC!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Aug 2011 00:17

RajeshA wrote:
Acharya wrote:GOTUS has nothing to do with Kashmir. Americans have to get the message that there is nothing for them.
Except if it is a question of Chinese encroachment into PoK, and their positioning along LoC!

India alone has to take care of its interest. All these are only triggers but the finger is somewhere else.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 18 Aug 2011 00:21

Everyone knows US is weak now and has no capacity to sustain any long battles. Its power is mainly diplomatic at the moment.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 18 Aug 2011 01:24

ramana wrote:Adlai Stevensons's sojurn in 1953. Google Books link

LINK

Many others can be found in google if interested.....

Many thanks. V interesting indeed. But so much has changed since 1953, or even 1971 (the seventh fleet of the USN sailing into the Bay of Bengal), or 1998 (post Pokhran-II sanctions), or whenever Robin Raphel was in the State Department handling S Asia, etc.

But as a wise person reportedly said "There are no permanent friends and enemies but only permanent interests". At this moment in history, the US is a "friend" and we must use that to advance India's "interests".

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Aug 2011 09:24

Its now a friend with interests. It was an enemy with interests.

Any way think why would AS offer that bargain to Sheikh in 1954? Look at the Indian and external situation then. Do a timeline from 1947.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 18 Aug 2011 20:52

McCain's visit sparks debate in Kashmir

When McCain called on Governor Vohra, also present on the occasion were Lt Gen KT Parnaik, General Officer Commanding-in-Chief (northern command), and Lt Gen SA Hasnain, Commander of the army's Srinagar-based 15 Corps.
"Matters of mutual interest were discussed during the US senator's meetings with the state governor and the chief minister," said an official statement about the senator's meetings in Srinagar.

is it come for defence personnel to be privy to discussions between politicians.
Point to note- Lt Gen Parnaik is likely to become the next IA chief if current chief Gen VK Singh retires in 2012.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Aug 2011 00:13

krisna wrote:McCain's visit sparks debate in Kashmir
When McCain called on Governor Vohra, also present on the occasion were Lt Gen KT Parnaik, General Officer Commanding-in-Chief (northern command), and Lt Gen SA Hasnain, Commander of the army's Srinagar-based 15 Corps.
"Matters of mutual interest were discussed during the US senator's meetings with the state governor and the chief minister," said an official statement about the senator's meetings in Srinagar.
is it come for defence personnel to be privy to discussions between politicians.
Point to note- Lt Gen Parnaik is likely to become the next IA chief if current chief Gen VK Singh retires in 2012.

It was a glorified chai biskoot session.

Who is the political notable in the entire lot ??

All decayed politicos only.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Aug 2011 00:18

krisna wrote:McCain's visit sparks debate in Kashmir
When McCain called on Governor Vohra, also present on the occasion were Lt Gen KT Parnaik, General Officer Commanding-in-Chief (northern command), and Lt Gen SA Hasnain, Commander of the army's Srinagar-based 15 Corps.
"Matters of mutual interest were discussed during the US senator's meetings with the state governor and the chief minister," said an official statement about the senator's meetings in Srinagar.

Daal men kucch kishmish hai!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 19 Aug 2011 00:23

Acharya wrote: India alone has to take care of its interest. All these are only triggers but the finger is somewhere else.

According to me, India could construct a highway as near to Afghanistan/silk_route and see the fireworks as a first step.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 19 Aug 2011 02:06

Bhaijaan are you serious?

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 19 Aug 2011 05:47

RajeshA wrote:McCain's visit sparks debate in Kashmir
When McCain called on Governor Vohra, also present on the occasion were Lt Gen KT Parnaik, General Officer Commanding-in-Chief (northern command), and Lt Gen SA Hasnain, Commander of the army's Srinagar-based 15 Corps.
"Matters of mutual interest were discussed during the US senator's meetings with the state governor and the chief minister," said an official statement about the senator's meetings in Srinagar.
Daal men kucch kishmish hai!

Having spoken to 2 journalists, familiar with some these discussions, these talks are about US insistence on "territorial adjustments" in Kashmir to pacify Pakistan. These adjustments go beyond the suggestions in the article below. Since, our army has been typically wary about territorial adjustments, the discussions are meant to get their buy-in too. What comes across from discussions with these folks,are the following:
- for some reason, the US-SD is very sensitive to Pakistani strategic interests visavis India
- our top leadership is amenable to pressures from the US in this particular regard, and has backed off 26/11 results and is at least "considering" such territorial adjustments

The article referred to above is here...
http://www.newamerica.net/publications/ ... nnel_11191

Take this with a grain of salt, since it is impossible to verify whether the sources the journalists are speaking to, themselves have some agenda.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 19 Aug 2011 06:27

McCain Visit

McCain said he had spent a few days in Jammu & Kashmir "at the request of Indian officials". Describing Kashmir as an "internal matter" for India, he said he was "encouraged by the improvement in the security situation in the state". Children, he said, were returning to schools and economic activity was picking up. "I hope this can continue".

McCain met J&K governor, N N Vohra, chief minister Omar Abdullah and the army commanders during his visit to the state. In Delhi, McCain met national security adviser, Shivshankar Menon, though a meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had to be cancelled because of his pre-occupation with Rajya Sabha proceedings. "The US has a critical stake in India's success," he said.

However, McCain had strong words on Pakistan. "This is the time for intense reflection in US Congress about our relations with Pakistan." He said it was widely known that sections of the Pakistani army and the ISI were working with terror networks like Haqqani network and Lashkar-e-Taiba. "The US Congress would have a major say in how we work our relations with Pakistan," though he did not think it would be wise to walk away from Pakistan. "We've done it once and it wasn't a good thing."

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 19 Aug 2011 07:15

How can we allow some Amrikhan to come and discuss handing over of our land to our enemy? Should we not send someone to the U.S to discuss the giving up new Mexico to the Mexicans and Alaska to Canada?

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 20 Aug 2011 18:00

Indian army reports deadly gun battle in Kashmir

The Indian army in Kashmir says a gun battle has killed 11 suspected rebels and one soldier along the military Line of Control separating Indian and Pakistani territory.

An army spokesman says the fighting erupted when the suspected militants on Saturday crossed from the Pakistan-controlled portion of the disputed territory into the Indian-run sector of Gurez.

He says six of the suspected rebels' bodies were recovered, but five were lost after falling into a river during the fighting. There was no way to independently confirm the report of the incident. No Kashmiri rebel groups fighting Indian rule have issued any statements.

The spokesman added that the gun battle was the year's biggest.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 20 Aug 2011 19:48

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/08/ ... ml?_r=1&hp

Indian soldiers shot dead on Saturday 12 separatist militants trying to cross from Pakistan into the disputed region of Kashmir, where popular protests against Indian rule have mounted.

Fears are growing in India of an escalation in rebel incursions into Kashmir from Pakistan before winter snow blocks the Himalayan mountain passes.

"In the biggest success so far this year, the army today killed 12 terrorists in Gurez Sector, thereby foiling a major infiltration attempt," army spokesman Lieutenant Colonel J. S. Brar said, describing it as the most fierce gunbattle this year.

An Indian army officer was also killed, he added.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 20 Aug 2011 20:09

Can someone write a strong worded email to NYtimes for calling the terrorists as seperatists.
1. Ask them how can someone like Kasab from the interiors of Pakistan (Mullahs know better words like so and so from Multan, ... Osama from Islamabad) are separatists. Ask them whether India is claiming Islamabad.
2. Also take a dig at them by asking them why dont you use the term "9/11 separatists" for the terrorists fo 9/11 attacks?
3. Also tell them that just because someone is making claims to Indian Territory never means the territory belongs to them. Else ever drug lord or Mafia king who owns his business and fiefdom in the U.S is a separatist.
4.
5.
etc

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 20 Aug 2011 20:10

>>Sad after watching an Arnab show where he had a couple of KP activists. They claimed that when they mentioned long time back that Fai is an ISI stooge in mufti, they were ridiculed by Indian media as "communal". Lets face it, left right, and center: what US says has enormous credibility in India (except some docJis who can see through US charade

). Tomorrow if US is on India's side, even traitors like A'Roy ans P'Misra will fall in line. P'Misra in his vile diatribes against India often quotes US officials. A'Roy runs butt scared and pukes her bile in the NYT, recall the calls for sedition charges against her after, and she cried victimhood in the NYT.

This is nothing new. There are many who speak the US line in the media, the Chinese line, the Russian line and so on. This is not only in India by the way. Nothing sad about. Just the general reality everywhere. Now, with the Fai revelation, some have got egg on their face. They'll wipe it off and move on.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Aug 2011 21:08

There are many who speak the US line in the media, the Chinese line, the Russian line and so on. This is not only in India by the way.

The only difference seems to be that in this country, no one seems to speak their own country's line and one who tries to is anyways automatically branded a saffron communalist who is laughed off.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 20 Aug 2011 21:58

12 militants killed in J&K: Army

SRINAGAR: In first of its kind this year, army foiled a major infiltration bid from across along Line of Control (LoC) in Gurez sector of Bandipora district in north Kashmir on Saturday morning.
Twelve militants and an Army officer, Lieutenant Navdeep Singh, were killed and two jawans sustained injuries during the encounter, a Srinagar based defence spokesman Lt Col JS Brar said.
He said large group of heavily-armed militants was trying to infiltrate into Jammu and Kashmir from Gurez Valley from across Pakistan-occupied Kashmir in last night but the alert troops challenged the armed terrorists who opened fire and in the ensuing gun-battle five terrorists were killed while others fled back, Lt Col Brar added.

Source:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 675776.cms

We lost a newly appointed brave young officer, Lt. Navdeep Singh, of the 15th Battalion of the Maratha Light Infantry.Condolences to the family of the brave officer.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 21 Aug 2011 07:37

Cross-LoC trader paid Rs 1.5 cr to separatists, militant

jagbani · Post by **jagbani** » 21 Aug 2011 13:06

"In the biggest success so far this year, the army today killed 12 terrorists in Gurez Sector, thereby foiling a major infiltration attempt," army spokesman Lieutenant Colonel J. S. Brar said, describing it as the most fierce gunbattle this year.

According to Defense spokesman Lieutenant Colonel J. S. Brar, the clashes occurred on Saturday morning at around 1 a.m. local time when Indian troops deployed on the Line of Control near Baktoor village in Gurez Sector of Bandipora district in north Kashmir intercepted a group of militants trying to cross the Kishanganga River in a pneumatic boat.

http://www.punjabkesari.in/Punjab/fulls ... 22_141466-

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Aug 2011 18:50

Airavat wrote:Cross-LoC trader paid Rs 1.5 cr to separatists, militant

This is also old hat.

It's a known paki modus operandi and hence a bit distressing that better watch is not kept.

This is obviously why the desperate push for more "people to people contacts", more LOC "trade" and liberalised visa regime.

All under the direct instructions of the paki army.

Our guys are morons onlee.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 21 Aug 2011 20:42

Over 2,000 found buried in Kashmir's unmarked graves
This is second anti-india news given by DNA in those many days.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 22 Aug 2011 13:25

abhijitm wrote:Over 2,000 found buried in Kashmir's unmarked graves
This is second anti-india news given by DNA in those many days.

must be the bodies of terrorists , as I understand IA buries them according to the proper rites but of course cannot mark the names or disclose the locations fearing that it may become a shrine for sympathizers.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Aug 2011 20:43

^^^ Unlikely. This is another one of those rape accusations. Probably a mass grave site like Bhatta Prasaul or something very old. Will not be surprised if it has Kaffirs in it.
These guys are trying to play the propaganda war really hard. Lydia Polgreen and NYT are salivating at this new bit of info.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Aug 2011 21:52

Now in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/world ... shmir.html

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 22 Aug 2011 21:58

Jarita wrote:^^^ Unlikely. This is another one of those rape accusations. Probably a mass grave site like Bhatta Prasaul or something very old. Will not be surprised if it has Kaffirs in it.
These guys are trying to play the propaganda war really hard. Lydia Polgreen and NYT are salivating at this new bit of info.

Absolutely. The report seems to have been released by some human rights group in J&K, so I assume it has the blessings of the Indian govt? This is a huge PR victory for TSP and their valley puppets. I assume this is what Jihadi Aslam beg had in mind about Kashmir going on the boil again. TSPA can use this to start some hara kiri and then issue statements through their puppets that India is not serious about investigating "human rights" abuses, and as you say, the Lydia Polgreens of the western media will have a field day.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Aug 2011 22:25

CRamS wrote: The report seems to have been released by some human rights group in J&K, so I assume it has the blessings of the Indian govt?

Probably.

...The inquiry, the result of three years of investigative work by senior police officers working for the Jammu and Kashmir State Human Rights Commission...

The hard statistics are: mass graves in 4 districts in 38 places.
2156 bodies, 574 identified as local residents.

Zahoor Wani, an activist who works with the families of people who disappeared during the insurgency, said that the report was a welcome first step but that the government must identify the dead and allow families to bury their relatives.

“It is a very good thing that they acknowledge it,” Mr. Wani said. “These families have been living in a hope to see these people again.

“They are neither dead nor alive,” he said. “We need to move them to one pole or the other.”

If you think of it for propaganda value it is a definite Indian loss. If you think of it as helping close a chapter on a really bad period of the 90s, then something positive may come out of it. I doubt Aslam Beg is going to be able to milk much out of this. This is closing the roster on people who have been missing for a long time. If there were egregious killings, those would have to be investigated, and possibly prosecuted.

PS: Delhi-based Kashmiri journalist tweets:

The govt report on mass graves in #Kashmir is an attempt to legitimize the defunct institutions of the state. Justice will remain forbidden

saadhak · Post by **saadhak** » 22 Aug 2011 22:39

Anyone came across the said video? Should be authentic since the defence spokesperson commented on it.
J-K: Video shows trapped militant being killed

shivajisisodia · Post by **shivajisisodia** » 22 Aug 2011 22:45

http://news.yahoo.com/indian-inquiry-co ... 01606.html

For some reason I couldnt make the above a link.

Anyway, this is a damning report and will do tremendous damage to India and its cause.

Why does the Indian government take up such inquiries and allow itself to be pressured by international and domestic human rights groups. Will China take up such an inquiry in Tibet or Xinxiang or will Paki allow take up such an exercise in Baloch ?

The same Indian government will allows itself to be pressured and is proving to be totally incompetent in handling such matters to its advantage and allowing such a poor image of India to be disseminated all over the world, then talks about the technicalities of parlimentary procedures and the fine points of who has the right to make laws and so on, when it repeatedly has failed to pursue Indian interests.

Shiv is right. Let us completely clean house. These SOBs (Indian politicians) and babus should all be lined up and shot, without exceptions. But that would be wrong, wouldnt it ?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Aug 2011 22:48

abhijitm wrote:Over 2,000 found buried in Kashmir's unmarked graves
This is second anti-india news given by DNA in those many days.

These guys needed proper cremation not burial.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 22 Aug 2011 23:05

Nihat wrote:
abhijitm wrote:Over 2,000 found buried in Kashmir's unmarked graves
This is second anti-india news given by DNA in those many days.
must be the bodies of terrorists , as I understand IA buries them according to the proper rites but of course cannot mark the names or disclose the locations fearing that it may become a shrine for sympathizers.

Also the Paki terrorists who cross the border and are eventually killed are burried in unmarked graves as identities are unknown and ISI/LeT are not going to provide their identity for purpose of burial.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Aug 2011 23:07

^^^ Highly likely.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 22 Aug 2011 23:13

shivajisisodia wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/indian-inquiry-co ... 01606.html

Anyway, this is a damning report and will do tremendous damage to India and its cause.

It will do nothing of that sort, just wait and watch. It will be in news for a few days, that's about it. This is not the first one in the news nor it will be last one either.

In the last 22 years around 30,000 - 35,000 terrorists have been killed, around 20,000 to 25,000 of them were Paki. Where do you think they are buried? You guessed it!

Most people can add 2 + 2.

shivajisisodia · Post by **shivajisisodia** » 22 Aug 2011 23:35

Prem wrote:
These guys needed proper cremation not burial.

Who ? Our politicians and babus ?

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Aug 2011 23:37

Dipanker wrote:
shivajisisodia wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/indian-inquiry-co ... 01606.html

Anyway, this is a damning report and will do tremendous damage to India and its cause.

It will do nothing of that sort, just wait and watch. It will be in news for a few days, that's about it. This is not the first one in the news nor it will be last one either.

In the last 22 years around 30,000 - 35,000 terrorists have been killed, around 20,000 to 25,000 of them were Paki. Where do you think they are buried? You guessed it!

Most people can add 2 + 2.

You are really optimistic about the 2+2 bit. Check out the NYT spin. Uggghhh. Pity that there was no pompous analysis about the London riots in Indian papers. We are too Uncle tommish for that

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Aug 2011 00:22

shivajisisodia wrote:....allowing such a poor image of India to be disseminated all over the world....

a. If Kashmiris are indeed citizens of India, then such issues will have to be faced.

b. Image problem is the least of problems. Have a real functioning government, real achievements, real acknowledgement and progress in solving problems,and image will fix itself.

c. After 9/11, terrorist attacks in Europe,etc., the "West" has come down from their high horse; they realize that even a democracy cannot address arms taken up against the state without a certain degree of mess. That is the tragedy of violence, no one really wins. They will pressure India to acknowledge and do what it can to give justice. However, the effort to do this is already indigenous - all it needs is for more Indians to support the process. No lectures need be countenanced from the West.

d. J&K is not Palestine (with Israel steadily eating up land, and economically isolating the Palestinians). J&K is not Chechnya, where a scorched earth policy was followed by the Russians. J&K is not Tibet or Uighuristan where massive demographic reengineering is being undertaken. J&K is not Balochistan from where resources are being extracted but development money is not poured in. J&K is not FATA where people have been left under British colonial laws, where the whole tribe including women, elderly and children can be punished for any transgression by any member of the tribe. J&K is a part of India, it faces the same problems as all of India does. If India's official record there is a cause for shame, so is the militancy and terrorism it had to face.