Indo-UK News & Discussion 9th Aug 2011

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 02 Sep 2011 15:08

Record Gold Demand In India As Prices Soar

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16060963

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 02 Sep 2011 15:10

Ginger curry and copious cups of tea: World's oldest marathon runner, 100, reveals secrets of his success

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1Wmz37zUY

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 02 Sep 2011 21:16

Libya could be the last place where the West is allowed to intervene

As always note the comments

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rvene.html

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 02 Sep 2011 21:24

Trade mission aims to grow links with India
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/busine ... ith_India/

We should engage with Britain in a positive and proactive business relationship. Many who always criticises Britain are living at least one century ago! The present realities have changed. Britain as a country and people wanted to do business across the world as India is a potential business investment place as well as partnership in business are all possible. In many ways Indian and UK cooperation has moved well ahead.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 Sep 2011 00:14

Libyan papers show UK worked with Gaddafi in rendition operation

A secret CIA document found among the haul shows that the British and Libyans worked together to arrange for a terrorism suspect to be removed from Hong Kong to Tripoli – along with his wife and children – despite the risk that they would be tortured.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Sep 2011 04:17

joshvajohn wrote:Trade mission aims to grow links with India
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/busine ... ith_India/

We should engage with Britain in a positive and proactive business relationship. Many who always criticises Britain are living at least one century ago! The present realities have changed. Britain as a country and people wanted to do business across the world as India is a potential business investment place as well as partnership in business are all possible. In many ways Indian and UK cooperation has moved well ahead.

Ah. At long last a voice of sanity, a veritable ocean of calm itself....

Anyways, lest the old fashioned ('century ago' & all that jazz) get unfairly castigated, pls do remember that (almost) all folks here want the best for India. Hence, is it too much to ask for for a formal apology (theek hai, legal liabilities waived) to come forth from UKstan for all the crimes against humanity in the name of the crown committed against a peaceable people who never threatened Britain in any way?

Because like it or not, reconciliation with truth is preferable to ignorance, agenda-driven history-distorting (history-hijacking?) narratives and the ubiquitious sweeping-under-the-rug response (and what a rug it must be too to hide Himalaya sized war & peace crimes against our people...). No?

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 05 Sep 2011 08:50

joshvaji might feel that the British are angels because they made christism a power in India,revived and reinvigorated tamizh nationalism,taught upper castes a lesson,created missionary power,built schools,colleges for christists,built churches using indian labour,land and money and materials,appeased christists with jobs,education,reservations and continue to harass hindus while working for the welfare of christists through foreign funding,State Department pressure,western propogaandu.

Why should joshvaji or for that matter theo saar think any differently ?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 05 Sep 2011 11:02

I don't think it is befitting for BRF, when some try to put down other BRFites, on the basis of their religious persuasions or ascribe to them religion-motivated intent, regardless of whether it is true or not!

It is one thing to discuss religion, religious groups etc. but never should we get personal due to that!

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 05 Sep 2011 12:07

Indian wine hits UK shelves
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink ... elves.html

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 05 Sep 2011 13:39

RE. the report about somali immigrant family and 2million pound house, how does the system work? What entitles this family, or any other, to housing benefit?

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 05 Sep 2011 14:40

rohitvats,

"How does the system work?"

Basically it goes like this.If you follow a certain religion of peace, you are of extreme value to the left/liberals.
You must be appeased, feted, treated as a master, the state must show deference to you as good dhimmis must.

The labour party has allowed approx 350-400,000 somali's into the UK, something like 80-90 % are economically inactive and receiving some sort of welfare.

They are sooner or later going to form a vote bank.
And that my friend is what the left/liberals are waiting for.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 05 Sep 2011 15:27

the proper way for citizens is
1. you visit your local council and ask to speak to an advisor
2. advisor assesses your personal situation - income, employment prospects, housing needs, health and child care needs, etc.
3. if you are eligible to receive benefits (and this is where things get murky) the council is obliged to provide you with benefits related to these areas - housing, health support (i.e. disability, learning difficulties, etc.) and child care (dependencies, schooling etc)

that means the council will find you somewhere to live, will help you if you cannot work and support you in looking after your children. in theory, this is good and meant to help you falling through the poverty cracks and get you back on your feet and into work. in addition, the national government provides you with unemployment benefits (if you qualify) and free healthcare

if you are an asylum seeker, then you just pitch up to any random local government office and ask for help - almost all will provide some form of help. if its a left wing run council, you will receive more help

the system is highly prone to abuse - since qualification is highly subjective - despite having lots of criteria in place. net net, the citizen who needs it (and has paid tax for it previously) sometimes will not qualify, whereas the fringe player - be it the underclass or the asylum seeker, will often qualify and be comfortably subsidized to manage a relatively decent standard of living without doing anything

there are sections of society who can happily live off this system and supplement their incomes through the black and grey economies. one common method is for young women to get pregnant and have the state fund their lifestyles for years to come. at the low income sections of society - in some areas, it is easier to live off welfare than to actually work. since the locals are often workshy thanks to this safety net - the gap is being filled by east europeans and africans who are willing to work at wages 'beneath the dignity' of some sections of society.

the mango brit who works hard and earns a little more than this level sees all his taxes dissappear into this void, he sees his housing costs soar whilst some asylum seeker is housed in relatively good accomodation, when he goes to hospital in an inner city he sees it full of foreigners getting free treatment... etc., etc.

the resentment builds

this is a policy void that has built up over decades, and the government (of any party) is unable to tackle this head on. at the least they need to police the benefits system more rigourously, but they also need to get the different government departments to be more joined up (not allowed under current laws) and work in concert to restore some balance and fairness to the system

needless to say that the indian community is on the +ve side of this equation, which is why the mango brit has started to identify +vely with the community

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Sep 2011 18:06

"The Godfarther"!

Tony Blair is godfather to Rupert Murdoch’s daughter
Tony Blair is godfather to one of Rupert Murdoch’s young children, it has emerged in an interview with the media tycoon’s wife Wendi.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ghter.html

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 05 Sep 2011 20:01

Whose bright idea was that? Border between India and Pakistan is so brightly lit it can be seen from space

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1X5htf4X6

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Sep 2011 20:33

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ondon.html

A coachload of English Defence League supporters were attacked by around 100 Asian youths with missiles when their bus broke down in Tower Hamlets, East London, on its return from a violent rally

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... apons.html
Sixty arrests as EDL members clash with police including 44 pulled off a coach that had stopped outside a mosque
(as one scrolls down one can see seeveral pics of EDL members with fire arms)

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 05 Sep 2011 20:41

Gangs storing guns for more riots

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16062608

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 09 Sep 2011 08:48

Posted in JK thread but also relevant here, british diplomats supporting terrorists in India to gain votes from their Islamist vote banks in UK

vijayk wrote:http://newsinsight.net/archivedebates/n ... recno=2190

Is Kashmir back on the US agenda? The presence in Washington of Alexander Evans, a counselor in the British diplomatic service currently on sabbatical as the Henry A.Kissinger Chair in International Relations and Foreign Policy at the Library of Congress, signals that. In January 2012, he will become senior fellow at Yale University's Jackson Institute for Global Affairs.

Evans worked previously at the US department of state as a senior adviser to Richard Holbrooke and Marc Grossman, successively the US special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. Evans was on loan to the state department from the British foreign office for his knowledge and expertise on Kashmir.

....

In the aftermath of the November 2008 Mumbai attack and before visiting India, the then British foreign secretary, David Miliband, stirred a controversy. He said solving the Kashmir issue would deny Lashkar-e-Toiba, the Pakistani terrorist group responsible for the Mumbai carnage, its "call to arms" and free Pakistan to fight al-Qaeda and Taliban militants in its tribal areas. Why Miliband was not given the Holbrooke treatment and barred from India is not clear. It is telling, however, that Miliband spent "quality time" with Rahul Gandhi in some dusty Indian village.

Alexander Evans comes from the Tony Blair-David Miliband set that wants to meddle in Kashmir. Evans is very close to non-valley Kashmiris and particularly the Mirpuris who run "independent Kashmir" campaigns in London. Evans opposes violence. He is disturbed by the violence in Jammu and Kashmir but is less vocal of the killings and oppressions in Gilgit, Baltistan and elsewhere in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

Following 9/11, Evans distinctly was worried that Pakistan's ability to continue with its terrorism inside Jammu and Kashmir would be curtailed by Washington. Writing in Kashmir Observer on 2 October 2001, Evans wondered: "What might all these changes mean in practice? Pressure -- serious pressure -- to end militancy in Kashmir changes the equation within Kashmir completely, along with Kashmir-Islamabad and Kashmir-Delhi dealings." Evans was worried about the pressure on the terrorists and their sponsors.

He was also concerned about Hurriyat leaders. "(They) will need to do the most thinking," he warned. "A new regional order -- and a powerfully aggressive US policy on anything that smacks of terrorism -- demands a new political strategy from the APHC umbrella. This will prove difficult to craft, and the residual tensions between moderates and hardliners, nationalists and pro-Pakistanis, and the smaller constituency of political Islamists, may bubble to the surface."

Evans was concerned about the Kashmiri diaspora too. "The Kashmiri diaspora," he noted, "will never enjoy the freedoms it has since the 1960s, drawn upon to agitate and support militancy in Britain, Europe and the US. Various prominent Kashmiri exiles may find their continuing residency overseas subject to stringent restraints."

In conclusion, he stated, "Of course a solution to the Kashmir problem is needed, now more than ever, and it should be pursued... Greater US interest in the issue is welcome, therefore, and thoughtful analysis coming from the likes of the Kashmir Study Group, operated from New York, and other organizations could pave the way for a more informed dialogue among India, Pakistan, and, it is hoped, the Kashmiris, too."

One of the members of the Kashmir Study Group, Farooq Kathwari, heading the home furnishings retail giant, Ethan Allan, was appointed last September by Obama as a member of the president's Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. Kathwari says the Kashmir Study Group means to "engage in fact-finding and the analysis of possible steps toward a solution, that is, unofficial initiatives by private citizens."

According to the influential http://www.danielpipes.org, Kathwari's son "took leave from Harvard Medical School to go fight in Kashmir. He did not know any Urdu or anything else about the conflict except that it was a fight between good and evil. Good meaning of course Islam and Hindus were, no doubt, the evil." He died in Jammu Kashmir fighting Indian soldiers, the report said.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Sep 2011 12:27

^^^More power to IA.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 09 Sep 2011 13:20

Yeah, at least one of the b@stards in the story has suffered the same lose that thousands of families of Indian soldiers and civilians (including Kashmiris) suffer because of the machinations in Whitehall and other sociopathic institutions.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 09 Sep 2011 13:25

I hope British govt will bring some positive changes through the concept of 'Big Society'. Volunteering can also be paid in terms of supporting the child care and working together with differently abled people. If Govt is interested in bringing the single mums and others back to work, the child minders should be brought in either as volunteer paid with professional training. Even those who are helping differently abled categories should be allowed to work and others may be encouraged to work if some of the difficult persons are looked after again by professionally trained volunteers who are also paid. It is essential to make sure that minimum sustainance is given to all the families in a fair manner. For this I think the government has to bring a major change in policy and public section investment. It is good to look at some of the Indian models of bringing middle ground social change which is between a capitalistic and socialistic approach. This has its own short comings and has not yet addressed the personal affinity of individuals or communities to particular land or place or property which they had to give for public good or service.

The mediation of Non Governmental and Faith based organisations are essential to contribute towards social change and sustainance of the society at large. As they are based on the voluntary sevice and donations, it is essential to encourage to play a wider role than their present service to particular community or communities.

Greg Clark: planning for the Big Society
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ciety.html

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Sep 2011 16:48

Tata for now

The racist economyst rag for once takes care not to slip subtle under-the-belt slights to India and Indians. Or maybe I've spoken too soon...

The country’s biggest manufacturer is Indian. What does it seek from and give to Britain?

Coupla weeks ago the same racist rag displayed touching concern (and dollops of advice) for how India should run its economy so that 'India's prosperity could be secured'. Like I said, touching indeed, coming from the Briturds.

Beer-barrel-sized ingots made from scrap at a sister steelworks in nearby Rotherham are cleaned, welded to a stub and lowered into the furnace. The drop-by-drop melting takes 12-14 hours, removes impurities and strengthens the steel. Once cooled and tested, the blocks of steel are ready for use in aerospace and oil-drilling, where high-strength steel is prized.

Aah. Stuff DRDO could use too, perhaps, eh?

But just how sweet is Tata for Britain? Any fears that Tata would strip out technology and ship it home have proved baseless.

Wonder why the tatas haven't done it yet. Lots of stripping and taking it home happened for 200 yrs till 1947. tatas at least paid money and bought what they may later take at fair price.

Anyway, enjoy the (f)article. Its half-decent at least.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Sep 2011 18:04

Lords needs to be purchased an converted into a vegetarian bhojanalay and marriage hall.
tower of london into a Madurai Idly shop serving indic tourists.
a bathing and fishing ghat behind westminster hall on the thames
noses need to be dragged in the mud.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Sep 2011 09:48

Considering that UK is going downhill economically, militarily, socially and otherwise, it would be prudent for India to make use of the situation.

UK still has to fear that when its armada of naval ships is decommissioned and it cannot project power across the globe anymore, the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) would one day simply be taken over by Argentina.

As such India should make an agreement with UK to allow Indians to go and settle down in the Falkland Islands. India can also increase investments on the islands. Secondly UK and India can reach a pact of joint defense of the Falklands.

This would stop Argentina from invading.

Falklands is just a little larger than Tripura (12,173 km2 vs. 10,492 km2) but has one-thousandth of its population (3,140 vs 3,671,032). Moreover Falklands is also strategically located in the Southern Atlantic close to Antarctica, giving Indians a reason to travel from Mauritius to Malvinas, and to explore Antarctica, another continent adjoining the Hind Mahasagar.

In fact the defense agreement can be extended to all British Overseas Territories. Right for Indians to Migrate in exchange for Investments and Joint Defense, even as the territories continue to be under nominal British sovereignty, as is today the case.

British Overseas Territories

An odd article about an Indian having set foot on the Falklands:

India: INSV Mhadei to Fly National Flag in Falkland Islands on Republic Day 2010

Just musing

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Sep 2011 10:04

I think we should secure and setup proper shops in places like british IOR territories, seychelles, madagascar, mauritius (a big island with french speaking indic people, offering scope for naval and airbases) djibouti and some isolated islands in the vast southern part of the indian ocean..some may have been used as whaling stations in the past, not sure who inhabits these bitterly cold islands now or why.

http://www.geographicguide.com/africa-m ... nocean.htm

get the french and aussies to vacate these outcrops and setup a dosa shop there.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Sep 2011 10:33

Singha ji,

Demanding territories nearer to home in the Indian Ocean would meet with rejection, because it would be a case of India asserting "her rights" over these territories, and the British don't want to give Indians any "rights". We should go for the British Overseas Territories, which are not in the Indian Ocean, as a means of establishing the principles of the Agreement.

In the non-Indian Ocean territories, the Brits would see India as a net contributor to its security and may be willing to accept such an arrangement. Later on it can be extended to Indian Ocean Territories as well.

The point I was trying to make was that Britain would start feeling vulnerable, and should Argentina take over the Malvinas, it would mean an extremely serious blow to British H&D. Now Indians can of course sit back and enjoy the spectacle of British H&D loss. But more than some Schadenfreude, there isn't much what India can get out of it.

On the other hand, a "Migration & Defense Agreement for British Overseas Territories" between Britain and India would mean a tangible win for India, for it would lay the basis of a transition period for India from joint defense to naval bases for India when India is a superpower and needs global presence.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 Sep 2011 10:36

Whats wrong with doing what the chinese are doing? Send over a mallu there to setup a tea stall and claim the island to be historically ours ?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Sep 2011 10:40

Prasad wrote:Whats wrong with doing what the chinese are doing? Send over a mallu there to setup a tea stall and claim the island to be historically ours ?

One can do that for places which are disputed, or at least where India has a History of claiming. For many of the territories, mentioned above, there is already a historicity of sovereign claims.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 13 Sep 2011 10:42

Yeah. I'm talking about those which are uninhabited in the IOR. Settle a few people and then years down the line dispute it. Disputes have to start somewhere. By then hopefully we get stronger and they weaker with no real strength to oppose us. Isn't that what the chinese are doing?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Sep 2011 13:25

french hold a string of tiny islands east of madagascar coast claimed by multiple nations there (madagascar, seychelles, mauritius). each island has a weather post (automated) and 14 soldiers. on the basis of this, they claim a 200km EEZ around each island which deftly overlaps the EEZ of nations around these islands

clever people these goras - any isolated island or chokepoint anywhere in the world is always a target for their claws.

since 1925 the french have also claimed a pie slice of antarctica from the coast all the way to the south pole.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 13 Sep 2011 13:57

Singha wrote:french hold a string of tiny islands east of madagascar coast claimed by multiple nations there (madagascar, seychelles, mauritius). each island has a weather post (automated) and 14 soldiers. on the basis of this, they claim a 200km EEZ around each island which deftly overlaps the EEZ of nations around these islands

clever people these goras - any isolated island or chokepoint anywhere in the world is always a target for their claws.

since 1925 the french have also claimed a pie slice of antarctica from the coast all the way to the south pole.

Well then lets start buying French debt!

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 14 Sep 2011 15:00

Migrants are having big families to claim benefits, says Asian baroness

Those "Asians" Again

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... efits.html

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 14 Sep 2011 15:03

france might get sunk by greece due to the amount of greek debt they are holding

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 16 Sep 2011 03:04

U.K. MPs concerned over “rights abuses” in Kashmir

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 16 Sep 2011 05:09

UK debate on Kashmir a damp squib

A move in British parliament to embarrass India over rights violations in Kashmir virtually fell through with less than 30 of the 640 House of Commons members attending a debate on it. The house's business committee also disallowed a demand for a vote on the motion.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 16 Sep 2011 13:24

^^British foreign office minister Alistair Burt rejected demands for interference in India's internal affairs and even the expression in the house put on record was made non-binding on the government. "It is not for the UK government either to prescribe or mediate in a solution to the situation in Kashmir. It is the long-standing policy of the British government that this is a matter for the Indian and the Pakistani governments, taking into account the wishes of the Kashmiri people," Burt said before the debate.

Good, this is a precise articulation of what we need to hear, identical to the American position. We have to thank the Pakistani members of the British parliament for opening this debate again.

And we didn't even have to pay for it

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 16 Sep 2011 15:03

Another thing of note in the said article

"We should not be too quick to criticize (the Public Safety Act, a preventive detention law in Jammu & Kashmir that triggered the debate),'' [Conservative Party MP Steve] Baker said. He cited the "control order" that exists in Britain and has been widely applied in Northern Ireland not dissimilar to the PSA.

The cynic in me feels the parallels with Belfast are little too disconcerting for the Right Honourables (atleast those who can think) to walk too far down that road.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Sep 2011 16:14

the parallels are that all western governments are rethinking their liberty laws because right now they can do very little to apprehend and question suspects until it is almost too late. anticipatory legislation is in the pipeline in most cases. in the case of IRA, etc. - there was a parallel political process that kept most of the terrorism in check. but with the islamists, there is no political engagement...

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 16 Sep 2011 18:31

"The cynic in me feels the parallels with Belfast are little too disconcerting for the Right Honourables (atleast those who can think) to walk too far down that road."

And the militancy and support for that militancy from outside, is far higher in Kashmir than it ever was in Ireland, in its worst days. Indians/ethnic Indians themselves should assert that there is internal democracy in Kashmir, that Kashmir is very diverse, that Kashmir is not a settler state colony nor a super-exploited colony, of India. India's main challenge is Islamic militancy and people under the influence of that ideology.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 16 Sep 2011 18:57

Let the Brits bark as much as they want! Appun ko kya?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Sep 2011 19:10

(this is information - not ==) in most NE US cities - particularly Boston, the IRA would openly collect money to fight against the british, including walking through bars with buckets to take donations and several 'Irish Days' fundraiser events. weapons would be purchased and shipped to well wishers in ireland for passing on to northern ireland