India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Interest comment on Trident (D5) MK6 life extension guidance system contract. And we think that it happens only in DPSU's.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
http://machinist.in/index.php?option=co ... 6&Itemid=2
1100 engineers from Infotech Enterprises work on UTC's Aerospace Companies
I am having the strong urge to destroy something right now.
1100 engineers from Infotech Enterprises work on UTC's Aerospace Companies
Hyderabad: Engine Alliance, a 50/50 joint venture of Pratt & Whitney and General Electric Aviation, works for GP7200 engine powering the A380 establishing its strong roots in India. Infotech Enterprises’ Engineering Services team also works to create high quality designs and reduce the weight of parts for GP7200.
Engine Alliance member company GE Aviation has one of the largest research facilities in India. The John F. Welch Technology Center (JFWTC) in Bangalore employs over 4,000 advanced researchers who work with global teams to develop advanced technology products. Among these, there are more than 470 researchers working on various mechanical, aerospace and electrical engineering projects including fracture mechanics, acoustics, reliability and electro-magnetism.
Commenting on the occasion Mr.Bill Blair, Engine Alliance General Manager said, “These researchers have been working on products that GE has been developing for the next generation of aircrafts, such as the GE90 engine for the Boeing 777 and the Engine Alliance GP7200 for the A380. They’ve led technological advancements in almost all engineering disciplines, including combustion dynamics, containment prediction, aerodynamics and master modeling.”
Infotech Enterprises Limited also participates on the Engine Alliance team. Bangalore and Hyderabad engineers at Infotech work for Engine Alliance Team. Long before the engine was FAA or EASA certified, Infotech was helping EA parent company Pratt & Whitney develop detailed drawings and providing structural and thermal analysis for the massive engine. Infotech also assisted with test predictions and post test data analysis for the GP7200. Infotech Enterprises, a strategic partner of United Technologies Corporation, has a team of 1100 people working in Hyderabad, Bangalore and USA, on projects and solutions for UTC‘s aerospace companies.
Mr.Rajeev Lal, Infotech’s President of Strategic Business Initiatives said, “Our participation in the design and certification of GP7200 engine is a matter of satisfaction and pride for us. We complimented Pratt & Whitney’s efforts in coming up with the most fuel efficient engine for the largest passenger aircraft flying today. We contributed in compressing schedules in the design, validation, testing and certification phases of the engine, and it was produced on time.”
Infotech continues to assist Pratt & Whitney with the GP7200 and supports several other engine programs as well. Rajendra Velagapudi, Senior Vice President, Infotech Enterprises America, Inc. recently moved from India to the United States to work onsite at Pratt & Whitney in Connecticut. “About 150 Infotech engineers are presently working on a new generation engine program for P&W. This is a testimony to Infotech’s capability to provide high-end engineering solutions,” he said.
Mr.Rajeev Lal continued, “The technical mentoring done by Pratt & Whitney and our adoption of United Technologies’ ACE (Achieving Competitive Excellence) operating system enabled us to provide valuable support to the GP7200 program. The success of this partnership has strengthened our capability to participate in the development of aero engines in future. We thank Engine Alliance and Pratt & Whitney for the confidence and trust they have shown in our engineers”
I am having the strong urge to destroy something right now.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Defence-related bio-medical research to get a boost with Kyrgyzstan minister's visit
What caught my eye was the following
What caught my eye was the following
The collaboration between the two countries began in 1997, when the DRDO was allowed to use a torpedo-testing facility in that country. Advanced light-weight, heavy-weight and thermal torpedoes, which the DRDO developed, are tested in the Issyk-Kul Lake, a big range in itself, said Dr. Selvamurthy.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
WOW! I thought Shenya was tested by NSTL in Vizag. Must be something more comprehensive.
BTW SS did you see the range of products: light weight, heavy weight(must be battery operated) and thermal(this is mono propellent engine).
2004 News report:
Hindu news report
Ausin Joseph's article in BRM
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... oseph.html
BTW SS did you see the range of products: light weight, heavy weight(must be battery operated) and thermal(this is mono propellent engine).
2004 News report:
Hindu news report
Ausin Joseph's article in BRM
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... oseph.html
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
I remember speaking to a NSTL scientist who was responsible for Varunshastra HWT ( iirc ) Torpedoes , he mentioned that there are many environmental concern regarding testing of torpedoes at the lake where they do it and they need to be very careful about each test ,availability of Issyk-Kul Lake with ranging facility would have mitigated it.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
thanks for posting this. I have some relatives who have vitigilo. I'll forward it to them. by any chance do you know if this medicne has a;ready hit the stores?chackojoseph wrote:DRDO launches 'Lukoskin' herbal care product for leucodermia
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^^^^ best ask AIMIL Pharmaceuticals. They might ship it to you. Looking at the stats, this article was accesed by big pharma co's, analyst firms with a special attention from US. Seems to be an important contribution by DRDO.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Arrey read the entire PDF on NSTL developments
http://iiscaa.mentorcloud.com/client/ii ... ystems.pdf
http://iiscaa.mentorcloud.com/client/ii ... ystems.pdf
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Saarji since when did methane became inflammable ???chackojoseph wrote:The waste treatment by the bio-digester is colourless and odourless, but, produces inflammable biogas (methane).
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
^^^ why ji? keep oxygen away from it and it will be highly inflammable
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Sirji then nothing will be categorised as flammable. How is the methane going to be disposed off then ???Lalmohan wrote:^^^ why ji? keep oxygen away from it and it will be highly inflammable
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
The modification is being done as per the report.Sagar G wrote:Sirji then nothing will be categorised as flammable. How is the methane going to be disposed off then ???Lalmohan wrote:^^^ why ji? keep oxygen away from it and it will be highly inflammable
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
er are we joking here or confusing Britlish with YamerikeseSagar G wrote:Sirji then nothing will be categorised as flammable. How is the methane going to be disposed off then ???Lalmohan wrote:^^^ why ji? keep oxygen away from it and it will be highly inflammable
The Brits use "inflammable" for something that can burn (in air). The opposite is uninflammable.
Yamrikis say "flammable" when they mean "inflammable". Do they say "inflammable" when they mean uninflammable? Non-flammable/un-inflammable would mean the same thing.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
like maximum incredible deterrence - without TN
or maximum credible deterrence - with TN
or maximum credible deterrence - with TN
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Atleast I learn't in school that coal burns and produces inflamable methane.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
I checked sirji my mistake apologies for the confusionchackojoseph wrote:Atleast I learn't in school that coal burns and produces inflamable methane.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Sirji, keep making mistakes. That's one way for learning.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
JE Menon wrote:like maximum incredible deterrence - without TN
or maximum credible deterrence - with TN
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
thank god many many timeschackojoseph wrote:Indian Railway passenger trains to be quipped with DRDO made bio digesters
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
First one would be to get Reliance out of that business!
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
ramana,
Good one.
IIRC, they are interested in buying DRDO BFSR for perimeter Surveillance of Jamnagar Refinery. It will make a lot of sense for DRDO to sell that tech to them for civilian applications.
Good one.
IIRC, they are interested in buying DRDO BFSR for perimeter Surveillance of Jamnagar Refinery. It will make a lot of sense for DRDO to sell that tech to them for civilian applications.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
[[self delete]
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KMML test-run produces titanium sponge.
The public sector Kerala Minerals and Metals Ltd (KMML) has started producing ‘titanium sponge' from its Titanium Sponge Plant (TSP).
The Industries Minister, Mr P. K. Kunhalikkutty, has congratulated the public sector unit for managing to produce titanium sponge metal for the first time in the country.
This has also made India only the seventh country to acquire the knowhow to produce titanium sponge, he said.Three tonnes of the rare metal with a huge market demand were produced in test runs at KMML on September 6.
The TSP was inaugurated in February this year by the Defence Minister, Mr A.K. Antony. Titanium sponge, a key material in space and defence applications, is also the raw material for titanium metal.As of now, KMML has the capacity to meet only a small portion of the demand for titanium sponge within the country.But the Minister hoped that the undertaking would ramp up enough capacity to meet the entire domestic demand.
Backed by technology from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the TSP has the capacity to produce 500 tonnes of titanium sponge annually. This is sought to be enhanced to 1000 tonnes.Magnesium chloride is the major byproduct from the TSP and KMML is preparing a project to separate magnesium and chlorine.
The technology for this is being provided by the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and the funding from the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO). This is expected to bring down the TSP's production cost considerably.
Another major project pursued by KMML involves production of ‘nano titanium pigment' that has tremendous scope in the market. It is valued at ten times the market price of titanium pigment, one of the company's current products.The waste generated at KMML's mineral separation unit is also being put to effective use. From the waste sand, the company has started producing sillimanite and zircon.
This has enabled the mineral separation unit alone to make a profit of Rs 25 crore since it started producing the two minerals. Prior to the production of these, the annual profit of the mineral separation unit was Rs 2 crore.
The public sector Kerala Minerals and Metals Ltd (KMML) has started producing ‘titanium sponge' from its Titanium Sponge Plant (TSP).
The Industries Minister, Mr P. K. Kunhalikkutty, has congratulated the public sector unit for managing to produce titanium sponge metal for the first time in the country.
This has also made India only the seventh country to acquire the knowhow to produce titanium sponge, he said.Three tonnes of the rare metal with a huge market demand were produced in test runs at KMML on September 6.
The TSP was inaugurated in February this year by the Defence Minister, Mr A.K. Antony. Titanium sponge, a key material in space and defence applications, is also the raw material for titanium metal.As of now, KMML has the capacity to meet only a small portion of the demand for titanium sponge within the country.But the Minister hoped that the undertaking would ramp up enough capacity to meet the entire domestic demand.
Backed by technology from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the TSP has the capacity to produce 500 tonnes of titanium sponge annually. This is sought to be enhanced to 1000 tonnes.Magnesium chloride is the major byproduct from the TSP and KMML is preparing a project to separate magnesium and chlorine.
The technology for this is being provided by the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and the funding from the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO). This is expected to bring down the TSP's production cost considerably.
Another major project pursued by KMML involves production of ‘nano titanium pigment' that has tremendous scope in the market. It is valued at ten times the market price of titanium pigment, one of the company's current products.The waste generated at KMML's mineral separation unit is also being put to effective use. From the waste sand, the company has started producing sillimanite and zircon.
This has enabled the mineral separation unit alone to make a profit of Rs 25 crore since it started producing the two minerals. Prior to the production of these, the annual profit of the mineral separation unit was Rs 2 crore.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Do they have single melt or double melt to refine the Titanium sponge?
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
KMML is one of the worst managed company in kerala , labor problms and corruption , land acquisition prblms also .
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Shijo, that was in the past... now it is a changed animal...shijo wrote:KMML is one of the worst managed company in kerala , labor problms and corruption , land acquisition prblms also .
Chacko had a piece on Titanium production here sometime back. Please checkout FrontierIndia.net to get more info.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
CSL mulls second shipyard in Kerala at Vizhinjam.
Cochin Shipyard Ltd (CSL) may have all factors going for launching a second ship-building facility in Kerala at Vizhinjam near here.
This was alluded to by Mr K. Mohandas, Secretary, Union Ministry of Shipping, during his keynote address at the dedication ceremony of the CSL bollard pull test facility at Vizhinjam near here on Friday.
That CSL was considering this option seriously was made public in his address by the Kerala Ports Minister, Mr K. Babu, in the presence of Cmde K. Subramaniam, Chairman and Managing Director, CSL.Earlier, Cmde Subramaniam had himself indicated that the 500-tonne bollard pull test facility could be the forbearer of a slew of projects that the CSL had in mind for the Vizhinjam area, nature's best gift for the maritime industry as a whole.The Vizhinjam pull test facility is the highest in terms of handling capacity, a good 2.5 times higher than the country's second best at Ratnagiri.
The Kerala Ports Minister also laid the foundation stone for a drinking water supply and sanitation project that the CSL was taking up at Vizhinjam as part of its corporate social responsibility initiative.
Separately, the Minister said that the much larger Vizhinjam international port and deep sea container transhipment terminal project had reached a milestone with two shortlisted companies submitting their technical and financial bids.But an empowered committee, set up by the State Government, has decided that the financial bids shall be opened only after the two companies, Mundra Port and the Welspun Consortium, get their respective security clearances from the Centre.
The State Government has also started lobbying with the Centre to get the Vizhinjam Port declared as a Customs Port under Section 8(A) of the Central Customs Act to entitle it to grant incentives to exporters.
Vizhinjam has already been declared a Customs Port under Section 7 (A) of the Act but a notification under Section 8 (A) had to be issued if it was to get export promotion facility.For this to happen, the port should build for itself a secure godown, boundary wall, access road and electricity for proper lighting. The State Government has decided to complete all work in this connection by the first week of January 2012, Mr Babu said.
Cochin Shipyard Ltd (CSL) may have all factors going for launching a second ship-building facility in Kerala at Vizhinjam near here.
This was alluded to by Mr K. Mohandas, Secretary, Union Ministry of Shipping, during his keynote address at the dedication ceremony of the CSL bollard pull test facility at Vizhinjam near here on Friday.
That CSL was considering this option seriously was made public in his address by the Kerala Ports Minister, Mr K. Babu, in the presence of Cmde K. Subramaniam, Chairman and Managing Director, CSL.Earlier, Cmde Subramaniam had himself indicated that the 500-tonne bollard pull test facility could be the forbearer of a slew of projects that the CSL had in mind for the Vizhinjam area, nature's best gift for the maritime industry as a whole.The Vizhinjam pull test facility is the highest in terms of handling capacity, a good 2.5 times higher than the country's second best at Ratnagiri.
The Kerala Ports Minister also laid the foundation stone for a drinking water supply and sanitation project that the CSL was taking up at Vizhinjam as part of its corporate social responsibility initiative.
Separately, the Minister said that the much larger Vizhinjam international port and deep sea container transhipment terminal project had reached a milestone with two shortlisted companies submitting their technical and financial bids.But an empowered committee, set up by the State Government, has decided that the financial bids shall be opened only after the two companies, Mundra Port and the Welspun Consortium, get their respective security clearances from the Centre.
The State Government has also started lobbying with the Centre to get the Vizhinjam Port declared as a Customs Port under Section 8(A) of the Central Customs Act to entitle it to grant incentives to exporters.
Vizhinjam has already been declared a Customs Port under Section 7 (A) of the Act but a notification under Section 8 (A) had to be issued if it was to get export promotion facility.For this to happen, the port should build for itself a secure godown, boundary wall, access road and electricity for proper lighting. The State Government has decided to complete all work in this connection by the first week of January 2012, Mr Babu said.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
Just a bit of interesting things
- DRDO has really moved ahead by leaps and bounds. Hardly has a product been cleared in trials and is in production, then a follow on is WIP, with sound planning and asked for by services. The achievements in radars, airborne, naval, and ground EW are the most impressive in recent years
-Renewed focus on sonars, and naval systems
-Work on missiles has reached very high levels of maturity and next series of systems is all about PGMs
-Avionics, etc thanks to LCA has now been spread out across industry
Overall, the pace of change is remarkable. DPSUs like HAL, and BEL are also changing, realizing times are changing and pvt sector is making all out efforts to get into defence. Its but a matter of time before full might of production capability from pvt sector joins in and which means DRDO etc systems get mass produced even quicker and even D&D cycle is reduced.
- DRDO has really moved ahead by leaps and bounds. Hardly has a product been cleared in trials and is in production, then a follow on is WIP, with sound planning and asked for by services. The achievements in radars, airborne, naval, and ground EW are the most impressive in recent years
-Renewed focus on sonars, and naval systems
-Work on missiles has reached very high levels of maturity and next series of systems is all about PGMs
-Avionics, etc thanks to LCA has now been spread out across industry
Overall, the pace of change is remarkable. DPSUs like HAL, and BEL are also changing, realizing times are changing and pvt sector is making all out efforts to get into defence. Its but a matter of time before full might of production capability from pvt sector joins in and which means DRDO etc systems get mass produced even quicker and even D&D cycle is reduced.
Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
FDI Cap on Defense May Stay.
India has put on hold a proposal to increase foreign direct investment in the defense sector. India strictly regulates investments in defense and stiff political resistance continues to stymie efforts to relax foreign ownership rules in this sector.
India presently allows 26% foreign direct investment in the defense sector.It allows 26% foreign direct investment in the defense sector and the proposal was to raise the limit to 74%.
"The defense ministry is not willing to raise the FDI [foreign direct investment] limit. It seems the chapter is over as of now," a senior government official with direct knowledge of the matter, who didn't want to be named, said Monday.
He added that the defense ministry isn't in favor of overseas players taking control of manufacturing activities.
India has put on hold a proposal to increase foreign direct investment in the defense sector. India strictly regulates investments in defense and stiff political resistance continues to stymie efforts to relax foreign ownership rules in this sector.
India presently allows 26% foreign direct investment in the defense sector.It allows 26% foreign direct investment in the defense sector and the proposal was to raise the limit to 74%.
"The defense ministry is not willing to raise the FDI [foreign direct investment] limit. It seems the chapter is over as of now," a senior government official with direct knowledge of the matter, who didn't want to be named, said Monday.
He added that the defense ministry isn't in favor of overseas players taking control of manufacturing activities.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector
NB: Rahul M asked that I move this post to this thread, instead of the LCA dhagga, where there was much handwringing about delays with the Tejas.
I have no way to know this – it’s just a guess, putting together what it looks like to me…
If HAL were listed on the stock exchange, and it made a difference to the executive’s bonuses, the size in the growth of the share price – you better believe HAL spokespeople would do more ‘talking-up’ than they do. But, as I understand it, HAL is not on the SENSEX, and HAL’s share price is irrelevant. In fact, all that matters is that the IAF is happy with the program. This means something different to the military, than it does to Rakshaks.
Now, I can understand an Indian’s belief that HAL is “his” (or “hers”), but unless he or she is a shareholder (not through the GoI, but held directly as a shareholder), then HAL has no reason to please people who aren’t signing orders and cheques.
Make no mistake: I'm not suggesting that this is untoward or indicative of corruption. Indeed, it is one of the good things about not having a 'Military Industrial Complex' like the one running rampant in the US. Don't forget, HAL is a PSU, not an INC. What this means is that while Rakshaks would like to see large numbers of aircraft ready for the fight right now; the military want a winning aircraft ready for the fight, when that fight happens. That’s a big difference.
At present, the Indian establishment sees a low probability of a large scale invasion (of India or by India). This calls for a defensive posture and an ongoing development cycle for the LCA (which is what we see, much to the chagrin of many Rakshaks).
If the threat perception changes, whether warning of an invasion or calling for one, HAL should be able to ramp-up quickly, switching from a development cycle to mass production. No doubt, this is what has won the confidence of the IAF: They understand HAL’s capability to quickly ramp-up production, meshed with their ability to train pilots, and the probability of military necessity for the LCA.
<SPECULATION> To me, this indicates that the LCA is being prototyped on production jigs, rather than on prototyping jigs. If this is indeed the case (as I suspect it is), and also considering the simplicity and size of the LCA (smallest a/c of its class in the world, single engine, tail-less design, minimal control surfaces, monocoque construction, modular electronics, etc.), and the extensive use of production automation that has been mentioned more than once: all this says to me that HAL should be able to produce the right aircraft in the right numbers at the right time, as defined by the IAF, with the ability to quickly ramp-up output once a produciton specification has been frozen. 'Til now, we've seen 'Limited Series Production' (LSP), with no two a/c being identical. Once they figure out their ideals (for the variants, air-superiority, ground-attack, nuke-strike, naval, single/double seaters, whatever), they will already have all their tooling ready-to go and poka-yoke'd.
For all we know, HAL may already have kits ready and waiting for the 40 a/c in 'Tranche 1', which would make 'Serial Production' (SP) a comparatively quick affair. This is probably what satisfies the IAF about HAL -- they can see that it can be done. Why should the IAF want 40 a/c today, when they anticipate getting 40 *better* aircraft tomorrow, when they'll really need it? </SPECULATION>
Why can this not be enough, for Rakshaks?
Last edited by Ravi Karumanchiri on 06 Oct 2011 03:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have no way to know this – it’s just a guess, putting together what it looks like to me…
If HAL were listed on the stock exchange, and it made a difference to the executive’s bonuses, the size in the growth of the share price – you better believe HAL spokespeople would do more ‘talking-up’ than they do. But, as I understand it, HAL is not on the SENSEX, and HAL’s share price is irrelevant. In fact, all that matters is that the IAF is happy with the program. This means something different to the military, than it does to Rakshaks.
Now, I can understand an Indian’s belief that HAL is “his” (or “hers”), but unless he or she is a shareholder (not through the GoI, but held directly as a shareholder), then HAL has no reason to please people who aren’t signing orders and cheques.
Make no mistake: I'm not suggesting that this is untoward or indicative of corruption. Indeed, it is one of the good things about not having a 'Military Industrial Complex' like the one running rampant in the US. Don't forget, HAL is a PSU, not an INC. What this means is that while Rakshaks would like to see large numbers of aircraft ready for the fight right now; the military want a winning aircraft ready for the fight, when that fight happens. That’s a big difference.
At present, the Indian establishment sees a low probability of a large scale invasion (of India or by India). This calls for a defensive posture and an ongoing development cycle for the LCA (which is what we see, much to the chagrin of many Rakshaks).
If the threat perception changes, whether warning of an invasion or calling for one, HAL should be able to ramp-up quickly, switching from a development cycle to mass production. No doubt, this is what has won the confidence of the IAF: They understand HAL’s capability to quickly ramp-up production, meshed with their ability to train pilots, and the probability of military necessity for the LCA.
<SPECULATION> To me, this indicates that the LCA is being prototyped on production jigs, rather than on prototyping jigs. If this is indeed the case (as I suspect it is), and also considering the simplicity and size of the LCA (smallest a/c of its class in the world, single engine, tail-less design, minimal control surfaces, monocoque construction, modular electronics, etc.), and the extensive use of production automation that has been mentioned more than once: all this says to me that HAL should be able to produce the right aircraft in the right numbers at the right time, as defined by the IAF, with the ability to quickly ramp-up output once a produciton specification has been frozen. 'Til now, we've seen 'Limited Series Production' (LSP), with no two a/c being identical. Once they figure out their ideals (for the variants, air-superiority, ground-attack, nuke-strike, naval, single/double seaters, whatever), they will already have all their tooling ready-to go and poka-yoke'd.
For all we know, HAL may already have kits ready and waiting for the 40 a/c in 'Tranche 1', which would make 'Serial Production' (SP) a comparatively quick affair. This is probably what satisfies the IAF about HAL -- they can see that it can be done. Why should the IAF want 40 a/c today, when they anticipate getting 40 *better* aircraft tomorrow, when they'll really need it? </SPECULATION>
Why can this not be enough, for Rakshaks?
Last edited by Ravi Karumanchiri on 06 Oct 2011 03:25 am, edited 1 time in total.