Telangana Monitor

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Sep 2011 09:51

SandeepA ji,

my question was specifically at NarRao garu. i've seen the "tough luck" argument from him before.

Medak is the EJ HQ of Telangana. I wouldn't consider what has happened there as development. it is another side effect of Coastal politics succumbing to EJ'ism (via dependence on YSR mafia) and as a consequence "inland" areas falling too. the EJ "development" in Medak started only in 2000's and rose meteorically only after YSR mafia became entrenched. there were elements of T politico/social setup which were trying to break the YSR mafia's juggernaut but most of them were surgically killed off within 2 years of YSR-1.

I consider the rise of YSR-dynasty as a great curse for all of India. especially so for AP. Telangana was the one area where there were (and still are) pockets of resistance to YSR mafia's agenda. YSR did everything he could to destroy any chance of resurgence against his interests. the ruthless killing of almost 2000 of TDP's "potential" local leaders and active participants is just one example.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 19 Sep 2011 11:03

Hi Devesh-ji
When I refer to Medak's development it is specific to the result of Hyderabad's explosive growth(greatly fueled by Andhras) and not the EJ activity which I consider evil and unsustainable. Vast tracts of the newly formed Cyberabad like Lingampalli fall within Medak and this is the mail engine for the region's growth. I mentioned this in the context that nowhere in the rest of AP has these been an opportunity like this and it would not have happened had Hyderabad not been made the capital.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Sep 2011 18:34

^^^
once again, you are confusing Hyd's development with the core issue. namely water rights and lack of irrigation infra. this is the one issue that has ensured T-feeling can be on the low burner for decades and still erupt again. as long as this isn't rectified, T-vadism will not die.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Sep 2011 19:45

1. If we can get drinking water to Hyderabad and Chennai, then we should be able to get drinking water to entire Telangana.

2. No one is asking to grow paddy/sugar in Telangana. GoAP should provide necessary infrastructure, water resources, education and financial support to Telagnana farmers so they too can participate in APs growth story. We cannot ignore ~4crore telangana telugus and yet achieve inclusive growth.

It is very sad to see the farmlands dry and farmers destitute where as mother Godavari is just 1-2 miles away. There is no excuse for it.

What is the purpose of technology and $25B annual budget if we cannot achieve these simple things?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 19 Sep 2011 20:15

devesh wrote:The T-issue is much deeper. 2 most important factors which consistently anger T-vadis are:

1. lack of proper irrigation infra, even after 60 years, which can keep some of the water from flowing into low-lying Coastal areas.
2. the perceived, whether real or imagined, disrespect shown by Coastals for the dialect spoken in T.

the above 2 issues make it emotional and bitter at the same time.

Those issues can have practical solutions. After several generations I think the 'disrespect' is a lot less. Irrigation is partly political but also technical and physical: rivers naturally flow downhill so that makes it a problem. I don't know how drinking water availability compares between say rural Guntur dist and rural Nizamabad dt. but it is a failure all over India. So-called drinking water availability in hyd itself is a cruel joke.

If T agitation leads to a comprehensive dialog and policy for basic facilities that would be welcome. But we know that is not the real core issue.

The real politics of separate Telangana is about coalition of naxals and feudals around an ideology that relies on perpetuation of a culture of poverty and resentment.

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 19 Sep 2011 20:24

RamaY wrote:1. If we can get drinking water to Hyderabad and Chennai, then we should be able to get drinking water to entire Telangana.

2. No one is asking to grow paddy/sugar in Telangana. GoAP should provide necessary infrastructure, water resources, education and financial support to Telagnana farmers so they too can participate in APs growth story. We cannot ignore ~4crore telangana telugus and yet achieve inclusive growth.

It is very sad to see the farmlands dry and farmers destitute where as mother Godavari is just 1-2 miles away. There is no excuse for it.

What is the purpose of technology and $25B annual budget if we cannot achieve these simple things?

1) Not True. Hyderabad and Chennai are cities. Telangana is a region. It is easy and cheaper to get water to a point rather than a region. Not that we shouldn't get drinking water to all. But to do that we need to be more weathy - and what ever anyone says we are for sure developing.

2) You are not listening. "necessary infrastructure, water resources, education and financial support " are not provided to Andhra farmers so that they can develop. They are provided so that the country can develop. You don't take bad business decisions out of pity else we will all be poor. Doesn't mean some other method should be found to get telangana farmers part of AP development story. That can be labor intensive industry. Something like nano should have been setup in Telangana not Gujarat or WB. Why waste prime farm land there and spend lot of money in unrenumerative areas on farming.

"It is very sad to see the farmlands dry and farmers destitute where as mother Godavari is just 1-2 miles away. There is no excuse for it." Agreed. The reason is politicians including KCR. Why cannot he put his energies getting industry to telangana. with plenty of water (abit costly) in a region where it cannot be used for profit, where it makes sense to use it for Industry. Any way over time advanced economies don't have large percent of people in Agriculture.

Telangana needs telangana solutions. Not Andhra solutions. If KCR thinks he can copy andhra unfortunately the geography soesn't support him.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Sep 2011 20:29

^ no disagreement there but assuming that KCR will live forever is also a wrong assumption. We need to come up with Indian solutions to Telangana region. They are part of AP and their issues are AP issues.

It is in our duty to ensure that we focus at least 2-3 years of our budget just on Telangana development (that would be 40-50000 crore planned budget) to solve that issue. If Telangana region develops, Hyderabad becomes a true capital of entire Andhrapradesh.

The objective is to stay united, that includes taking shared responsibility to individual problems.

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 19 Sep 2011 20:40

RamaY wrote:^ no disagreement there but assuming that KCR will live forever is also a wrong assumption. We need to come up with Indian solutions to Telangana region. They are part of AP and their issues are AP issues.

It is in our duty to ensure that we focus at least 2-3 years of our budget just on Telangana development (that would be 40-50000 crore planned budget) to solve that issue. If Telangana region develops, Hyderabad becomes a true capital of entire Andhrapradesh.

The objective is to stay united, that includes taking shared responsibility to individual problems.

At this point GOI will jump at the offer (40-50000 crore) if you can get KCR / TRS to agree. KCR cannot live for ever. But he is a primary factor right now and has spoiler value. If 40-50000 crore for telangana development can satisfy him I am sure all parties will agree.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Sep 2011 20:59

Why GoI, why can't GoAP say the we, the united AP, will focus on Telangana development for next 3 years followed by Rayalaseema during 2015-2018 and then north-andhra during 2019-2020?

Do we have an united AP leader who can say this and lead the united state?

We already wasted 5-6 years on this. Better late than never.

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 19 Sep 2011 21:28

Hard to say this. KCR has spoiled the atmosphere. The feeling in Andhra & Rayalaseema is Telangana developed itself (Mainly Hyd) using Andhra resources and now wants to keep it all for itself. It would require a real closure to Telangana problem for ever (written into constitution that telangana cannot seperate) for this to be sold to people. Of course this is not feasable in current situation. Thats why I say GOI should sponsor (as it has atleast some blame for situation)

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Sep 2011 21:40

Allowing a single (or a group of individuals) to spoil the brotherhood of Telugus is inexcusable. It is failure of AP leaders as much as of KCR and his followers.

If NM could rule Gujarat for 9 years and develop that state against the severe opposition from the (sic) secular forces all over the nation, then an honest and dedicated AP CM also can solve the Telangana puzzle.

If united AP cannot come up with such a leader and united vision, then it is better to form Telangana state and stop crying.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 19 Sep 2011 22:16

RamaY wrote:Why GoI, why can't GoAP say the we, the united AP, will focus on Telangana development for next 3 years followed by Rayalaseema during 2015-2018 and then north-andhra during 2019-2020?

Do we have an united AP leader who can say this and lead the united state?

We already wasted 5-6 years on this. Better late than never.

AP resources were used to develop Hyderabad and surrounding districts. It will be more like develop Rayalaseema next, Andhra next, and then come back to Telangana. If they want Telagana after all resources were used, other regions can claim all the resources back and put Telangana back into Nizam or Dora times or at least pre-Jalagam times and let it develop its own.

SKC report rejected that Telangana didn't develop. We ought to move beyond this point unless you provide contrary facts. There is always sense of inadequacy whatever development you do and that adequacy can't be filled in country like India where resources are far less for the population.

If Vision2020 has been going one it would have been some what like phased development - Develop Hyderabad, Develop 2nd tier and then 3rd tier - Use all industrial revenue for further agriculture development. Unfortunately, AP got YSR Loot Raj followed by CBN and so there are consequences.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 19 Sep 2011 22:56

RamaY wrote:^ no disagreement there but assuming that KCR will live forever is also a wrong assumption. We need to come up with Indian solutions to Telangana region. They are part of AP and their issues are AP issues.

It is in our duty to ensure that we focus at least 2-3 years of our budget just on Telangana development (that would be 40-50000 crore planned budget) to solve that issue. If Telangana region develops, Hyderabad becomes a true capital of entire Andhrapradesh.

The objective is to stay united, that includes taking shared responsibility to individual problems.

I hope it doesn't mean T development as the 'price' of unity. History has shown this to be a 'renDitiki cheDDa rEvaDu' approach.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 19 Sep 2011 23:01

RamaY wrote:Allowing a single (or a group of individuals) to spoil the brotherhood of Telugus is inexcusable. It is failure of AP leaders as much as of KCR and his followers.

If NM could rule Gujarat for 9 years and develop that state against the severe opposition from the (sic) secular forces all over the nation, then an honest and dedicated AP CM also can solve the Telangana puzzle.

If united AP cannot come up with such a leader and united vision, then it is better to form Telangana state and stop crying.

I also love Telugu unity but there is no point in getting sentimental about it. The real issue is to defeat the designs of the naxal-feudal nexus for a 'liberated' free loot zone from which to destroy India.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Sep 2011 23:20

KLNM garu and ShyamSP garu,

I am not saying "peace/unity at any cost"

I am just presenting the possible strategies to kill separate-t movement once and for all. Of course there is a possibility that T-vadis might ask for separate-T after developing their area with united AP resources (just like now). That would be like "Talli palu taagi Rommu guddinattu".

My interest in Telugu unity is to achieve a strong Dakshinapatha alliance to further strengthen Bharatiya core. If united AP is not required to achieve this, and perhaps a separate-T helps that goal it is even better.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 20 Sep 2011 11:25

RamaY wrote:KLNM garu and ShyamSP garu,

I am not saying "peace/unity at any cost" I am just presenting the possible strategies to kill separate-t movement once and for all. Of course there is a possibility that T-vadis might ask for separate-T after developing their area with united AP resources (just like now). That would be like "Talli palu taagi Rommu guddinattu".

My interest in Telugu unity is to achieve a strong Dakshinapatha alliance to further strengthen Bharatiya core. If united AP is not required to achieve this, and perhaps a separate-T helps that goal it is even better.

You are making an assumption that Telangana was neglected and other regions were promoted at the expense of T. This was debunked very thoroughly. You cannot preserve the unity by more pampering. This is unsustainable as evident from these repeated T statehood movements. The best deterrence against break up comes when the parties involved in the breakup realize the price to pay for the breakup. The most backward marthwada region or karnataka region of erstwhile Hyderabad state don't ask for separate state. Do they? Unfortunately, having Hyderabad with in the boundaries of T, this deterrence was running reverse. In any case, the people of Andhra are mentally ready for separation. The question of saving AP at the expense of andhra as it happened in the previous agitations may not repeat now.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Sep 2011 06:30

The divide that won’t be bridged

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2011 07:02

abhishek_sharma wrote:The divide that won’t be bridged

New theories pop up regularly

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 21 Sep 2011 17:53

RamaY wrote:Allowing a single (or a group of individuals) to spoil the brotherhood of Telugus is inexcusable. It is failure of AP leaders as much as of KCR and his followers.

If NM could rule Gujarat for 9 years and develop that state against the severe opposition from the (sic) secular forces all over the nation, then an honest and dedicated AP CM also can solve the Telangana puzzle.

If united AP cannot come up with such a leader and united vision, then it is better to form Telangana state and stop crying.

I would hesitate to bring NM and BJP into any discussion with telugus even if it to praise. They get more scorn than even KCR. I am sure we will remember for a long time.

I was just thinking ...1000+ suicides and we still have reservations. If something is not possible how can agitations make it possible? By tagging along eviction of 52 lakh Andhras to Telangana cause it is made impossible. How could seasoned politicians have done this. At some point even Andhra wanted separate state. What was stopping Telangana and Andhra politicians to agree to two states? It should just be details. We all know the details - Hyderabad pie. Does TRS etc really think SJS will give them the whole pie? How could common man really think SJS will give them the whole pie? How is this mass delusion possible. Years of mass delusion compeered by Brindanwale and we know the result is big nothing. Will GOI really bow down like this? It shouldn't have in the first place couple of years ago.

You can say the same about AP and TN. Don't forget AP lost Madras and Bellary (eventually). There is a price to pay and we paid the price that made it possible.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Sep 2011 18:25

vnadendla wrote:
You can say the same about AP and TN. Don't forget AP lost Madras and Bellary (eventually). There is a price to pay and we paid the price that made it possible.

And TN lost Tirupati to Andhra as well

KSKumar · Post by **KSKumar** » 21 Sep 2011 18:41

This Gautam Pingle guys is a perfect fit in KCR's propaganda council.

The much touted Revenue Surplus of Hyderabad State and Andhra's deficit. Keep harping on it, but do not mention that Andhra region had prohibition and Hyderabad state did not. The revenue surplus is almost directly attributable to this.

We are to believe that Andhra state wanted the 5 crore surplus of Hyderabad state. That amount, even 60 years ago, would not have fetched much in the context of a state that was severely deprived.

Characterize "Jai Andhra" movement as an attempt to protect the Andhra region's privileges, while in fact it was a direct reaction to the loss of complete access to Hyderabad (the Capital of the state). Which region will be happy to be locked out of it's own capital? In those days Govt. jobs were the primary driver of growth for middle class (like it was well into the mid-90s). If you do not get a share of the large pie (due to Zonal system), why should you be part of the state? Jai Andhra was for a separate Andhra State, not some mythical "protection of privileges".

Again talk of 600 suicides in cojunction with KCR's non-fast in Nov' 2009, without context of time. As if suicides preceded his fast. The reality was that there is nowhere that number of idiots who killed themselves. This is in league with the propaganda of "thousands" dying of heart break when YSR died.

While you are at, do not utter a word of Srikrishna committee's comprehensive rebuttal of "we are deprived" argument.

This guy is from Administrative Staff College of India, supposedly a premier training institution for our Civil Servants and other corporate honchos. Terrific training ground for FUD

KSKumar · Post by **KSKumar** » 21 Sep 2011 18:43

Aditya_V wrote:
vnadendla wrote:
You can say the same about AP and TN. Don't forget AP lost Madras and Bellary (eventually). There is a price to pay and we paid the price that made it possible.
And TN lost Tirupati to Andhra as well

Would TN have traded Tirupathi for Madras?

I am sure for the Andhra state votaries that would have been a great bargain!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2011 19:12

Ask Rajaji and his coterie.

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 21 Sep 2011 19:24

Aditya_V wrote:
vnadendla wrote:
You can say the same about AP and TN. Don't forget AP lost Madras and Bellary (eventually). There is a price to pay and we paid the price that made it possible.
And TN lost Tirupati to Andhra as well

We will give Bhadrachalam for Nalgonda and Hyderabad. What Andhra got and what it lost are not comparable.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Sep 2011 19:29

KSKumar wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:quote="vnadendla"]

You can say the same about AP and TN. Don't forget AP lost Madras and Bellary (eventually). There is a price to pay and we paid the price that made it possible.
And TN lost Tirupati to Andhra as well/quote]

Would TN have traded Tirupathi for Madras?

I am sure for the Andhra state votaries that would have been a great bargain!

Nope but just a reminder that TN did not win anything or AP lose anything in Madras going to TN, places with significant Tamil population in Chittor and Nellore District also went to AP. So there is no question of AP losing Madras or Bellary and other states gaining.

If AP claiming Madras should have gone to it based on a 20-25% Telugu population that is like TN or AP claiming Bengaluru just because of a significant population of Tamil or Telugu speaking population or UP claiming Mumbai or Delhi becoming part of UP since many people from UP migrating there.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 21 Sep 2011 19:41

Aditya_V wrote: If AP claiming Madras should have gone to it based on a 20-25% Telugu population that is like TN or AP claiming Bengaluru just because of a significant population of Tamil or Telugu speaking population or UP claiming Mumbai or Delhi becoming part of UP since many people from UP migrating there.

At the time of madras state, madras had very different population proportions than what you are seeing today. The additional telugu people who were migrating to madras started migrating to hyderabad, which did not change for tamilians.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 21 Sep 2011 20:01

Aditya_V wrote:
Nope but just a reminder that TN did not win anything or AP lose anything in Madras going to TN, places with significant Tamil population in Chittor and Nellore District also went to AP. So there is no question of AP losing Madras or Bellary and other states gaining.

If AP claiming Madras should have gone to it based on a 20-25% Telugu population that is like TN or AP claiming Bengaluru just because of a significant population of Tamil or Telugu speaking population or UP claiming Mumbai or Delhi becoming part of UP since many people from UP migrating there.

Don't bring unnecessary numbers out of hat. There was no question of Tirupati going to TN by geography or demographics - Check the geographical location of Tirupati from border.

Only Tiruttani area (Sarvepalle Radha Krishnan's place) that came to Andhra was given to TN. Nellore Prantham (which consititute Nellore and Eastern Chittoor district that includes Tirupati) was never in a much discussion. It was Chittoor district which was cut out of North Arcot and Salem districts. Again Andhra state lost many areas here (Telugu caste villages) due to geographical continuity breakage. Division here was blurred as language got intermingled.

As for Madras City there was clear discussion in Madras Government on what constitutes Andhra part and what constitutes Tamil part. Historically it was Telugu area also and land was leased to British for port. Of course demographically in 1950 it was more Tamil dominated due to migrations since British started.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Sep 2011 13:47

Brininging the Status of Madras is unnecessary in a Telegana debate in the First Place. The land given to the British as Lease was Chenna Mudaliar as Chenna Thope from. Historically, Tamils and Telugus intermingled and the whole area of southern Andhra districts and Northern districts of TN have had significant populations of Telugu and Tamils for more than 500-600 years. Even Thiruvallur had stated the Northern most boundary of Tamil Lands was Thiruvengadam or present day Tirumalai. So even today Tamil Nadu Tourism Corporation Buses wills till claim Trupati was part of Tamil Nadu given to Andhra Pradesh, because the connection to the Temple is very strong in both states. However, in 1950 most definately the majority of persons residing in Tirupati would be Telugu speakers.

P.S - Tirupati is around 50km from TN border and Chennai is probably 60 KM from AP border.

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 22 Sep 2011 18:02

Aditya_V wrote:Brininging the Status of Madras is unnecessary in a Telegana debate in the First Place. The land given to the British as Lease was Chenna Mudaliar as Chenna Thope from. Historically, Tamils and Telugus intermingled and the whole area of southern Andhra districts and Northern districts of TN have had significant populations of Telugu and Tamils for more than 500-600 years. Even Thiruvallur had stated the Northern most boundary of Tamil Lands was Thiruvengadam or present day Tirumalai. So even today Tamil Nadu Tourism Corporation Buses wills till claim Trupati was part of Tamil Nadu given to Andhra Pradesh, because the connection to the Temple is very strong in both states. However, in 1950 most definately the majority of persons residing in Tirupati would be Telugu speakers.

P.S - Tirupati is around 50km from TN border and Chennai is probably 60 KM from AP border.

Bringing the Status of Madras is necessary in a Telengana debate. Because
1) If Status Quo ante is desired (by TRS) ie Hyd completely becomes part of Telangana, Andhra's claims to Madras and Bellary are revived. SJS is not we want telangana agitation. It is we want Hyderabad evicting 52 lakh Andhras agitation. What will happen if Andhras want Madras evicting Tamilians for historical reasons.
2) It is an example of negotiations leading to a compromise. We lost Madras and Bellary but gained the separate state.
3) 2G don't know history. PC as Tamilian was a wrong person to make Dec 9 announcement. It smells of historical revenge (probably isn't. But appearances count).

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Sep 2011 18:45

Aditya_V wrote:
vnadendla wrote:
You can say the same about AP and TN. Don't forget AP lost Madras and Bellary (eventually). There is a price to pay and we paid the price that made it possible.
And TN lost Tirupati to Andhra as well

How long are we going to keep talking like this, huh? For crying out aloud, study the history. All Indian Kingdoms have been attacked, conquered and ruled directly or indirectly by other Kingdoms - sometimes even far away Kingdoms. And several times, Kingdoms across different lingual lines have made pacts with others - even married. The caste lines are very common in regions. There are lots of similarities between people speaking different languages. Caste, is not only a separator, but a big unifier.

So AP wallahs can sit and whine for centuries about losing Madras, while Tamil wallahs can cry how Tirupati was lost to AP, or even parts of Chittoor, parts of Southern Karnatka, parts of Kerala. Mallu brothers can cry about losing areas to Karnataka or AP. Territories have been exchanged throughout our history. The borders have been fluid with Kingdoms claiming stake directly or indirectly.

As a tamilian I can sit and bemoan that TN lost Tirupathi(disclaimer: I don't. I don't care for Tirupathi) and other areas; but then I am thinking from a tamilian perspective. Which is not parochial, but absolutely moronic. Because, I realize past is past, and we have to deal with the cards that are dealt now.

Each State should strive to make the lives of its people better. We now have the opportunity, at the same time, to enrich our languages. Instead of throwing ideas to create great universities teaching Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada, Hindi, Gujarati.....we sit and fight each other.

Dudes, get over it. AP is not going to yield an inch to any other state. KL, KA or TN is not going to do the same. Neither should we expect.

It is time such silliness stopped at BRF. Granted we are arm-chair analysts and critics, but at least we should behave better than the common man who has not studied history.

This thread single handedly has infused lots of bad blood between BRFites. Sad. In real life I have seen tamilians dissing telugus, telugus dissing tamilians, tamilians dissing Mallus, Kannadigas dissing tamilians, northies dissing others ityadi. It is easy to accept and understand when individuals have not had the luxury of even cursory looking at the history. But us? Yes, I like to think we are slightly better than aam admi.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 22 Sep 2011 18:48

^^^ nice post....

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 22 Sep 2011 19:10

How long are we going to keep talking like this, huh? For crying out aloud, study the history. All Indian Kingdoms have been attacked, conquered and ruled directly or indirectly by other Kingdoms - sometimes even far away Kingdoms. And several times, Kingdoms across different lingual lines have made pacts with others - even married. The caste lines are very common in regions. There are lots of similarities between people speaking different languages. Caste, is not only a separator, but a big unifier.

So AP wallahs can sit and whine for centuries about losing Madras, while Tamil wallahs can cry how Tirupati was lost to AP, or even parts of Chittoor, parts of Southern Karnatka, parts of Kerala. Mallu brothers can cry about losing areas to Karnataka or AP. Territories have been exchanged throughout our history. The borders have been fluid with Kingdoms claiming stake directly or indirectly.

As a tamilian I can sit and bemoan that TN lost Tirupathi(disclaimer: I don't. I don't care for Tirupathi) and other areas; but then I am thinking from a tamilian perspective. Which is not parochial, but absolutely moronic. Because, I realize past is past, and we have to deal with the cards that are dealt now.

Each State should strive to make the lives of its people better. We now have the opportunity, at the same time, to enrich our languages. Instead of throwing ideas to create great universities teaching Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, Kannada, Hindi, Gujarati.....we sit and fight each other.

Dudes, get over it. AP is not going to yield an inch to any other state. KL, KA or TN is not going to do the same. Neither should we expect.

It is time such silliness stopped at BRF. Granted we are arm-chair analysts and critics, but at least we should behave better than the common man who has not studied history.

This thread single handedly has infused lots of bad blood between BRFites. Sad. In real life I have seen tamilians dissing telugus, telugus dissing tamilians, tamilians dissing Mallus, Kannadigas dissing tamilians, northies dissing others ityadi. It is easy to accept and understand when individuals have not had the luxury of even cursory looking at the history. But us? Yes, I like to think we are slightly better than aam admi.

Nice post (really especially the idea that Caste, is not only a separator, but a big unifier). But way off mark.

We are NOT asking for Madras. The discussion is about why status quo ante is not possible and Telangana must compromise on Hyderabad. You cannot hear snippets of conversation and draw conclusions.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 22 Sep 2011 19:34

if Hyd becomes UT, then it will permanently become a bastion of Islamist activity and infiltration. it's going to become like Mumbai where all and sundry forces have taken shelter and use their money power to buy out any opposition. Mumbai as a bastion for these elements has destroyed the Maratha spirit. I am sure brick bats are heading for my head. so, i'll make it short and run while I can.

it is essential that Hyd city must be part of a larger territory.

I am going to make one more observation. the migration of Coastal folks to Hyd has diluted to a great extent the Islamist fervor of Hyderabadi Abdul. so, any talk of "removing" this population is detrimental for Bharat and also locally for Telangana.

secondly, even though Hyd is a part of Telangana, migration from T regions to Hyd has not happened as much as it should have. T people seem to be attached to other towns/villages etc. recently, it has picked up b/c of jobs and opportunities. but imo, the common T-family will stay where they are as long as they are not in dire financial circumstances.

I personally think the rural folks from T need to take a more active interest in Hyd. I view this mainly from the PoV of how best to liquidate the Owaisi/Mullah/Gulf cancerous influence.

IMVHO, T people have not yet accepted Hyd as "their's". Karimnagar, Warangal, Mahbubnagar, still attract the imaginations of small time T traders when they talk about "expanding" or "connecting" with more "opportunities". This is a historic legacy. Hyd has no pre-Islamic history. but the tier-2 towns go farther back in terms of "history".

keeping this in mind, at some point down the line, it is very possible that the desire will grow to establish a new center outside the Hyd mullah-mafia complex. Or, Hyd itself might become the target center. if the later happens, things will truly get interesting. the hidden sell-outs and traitors will show their true color then. until then, things will remain murky.

if T people want to develop an affinity with Hyd, then expect the mercantile elements to immediately openly make moves to crush this. moves will be made to "incorporate" the "settler" population into a compromise with Mullah-mafia complex. it will be very important that there are forces in T which foresee this and have their own plans to "incorporate" the "settlers" and ensure that "settlers' insecurity" is not manipulated to unknowingly or knowingly support the Islamist network in Hyd.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Sep 2011 19:43

In my college days I used to think Warangal would grow to be a big city. it would restore pride of place in the region.
I guess now folks will say am having Kakatiya dreams!

But really one has to go to the Thousand Pillar Temple's ruins and imagine the grandeur in its heydays of Rudramma Devi's rein.

I don't know about the water situation and all other necessities for big city development.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 22 Sep 2011 21:10

Aditya_V wrote:Brininging the Status of Madras is unnecessary in a Telegana debate in the First Place. The land given to the British as Lease was Chenna Mudaliar as Chenna Thope from. Historically, Tamils and Telugus intermingled and the whole area of southern Andhra districts and Northern districts of TN have had significant populations of Telugu and Tamils for more than 500-600 years. Even Thiruvallur had stated the Northern most boundary of Tamil Lands was Thiruvengadam or present day Tirumalai. So even today Tamil Nadu Tourism Corporation Buses wills till claim Trupati was part of Tamil Nadu given to Andhra Pradesh, because the connection to the Temple is very strong in both states. However, in 1950 most definately the majority of persons residing in Tirupati would be Telugu speakers.

P.S - Tirupati is around 50km from TN border and Chennai is probably 60 KM from AP border.

Some points:

* Madras was brought to argument to counter some arguments that T leaders put forth. Regardless of validity, it has parallels. Madras was not given to part of the state (Andhra) that was separating from big state (Madras). Hyderabad need not be given to Telangana if they want to separate. This has nothing to do with Tamils as such.

* Get some facts right. Mudaliar is a Tamil caste. Land was given to British by son of Damarla Chennappa Naidu, a Velama Nayaka.

* Historically Northern Tamils and Southern Telugus intermingled and were under same ruling for 1500s with gaps in between.

* Tirupati came to prominence because of Tamilian Acharya Shri Ramanuja but it doesn't mean Tamils were more demographically not just in 1950 unless you only want to count people in Ayyangar agraharams only.

There is no problem Tamils claiming Tirupati as theirs in religious point of view. If it helps them get rid of DK mentality, they are glad to take it

* I'm glad you got distance right. There was discussion on Madras city being split along some north Arcot/Chengalput areas but ultimately that demarcation didn't materialize when there was split actually. Other than some religious claim, there was not question of Tirupati to be given to newly formed Tamilnadu from Andhra.

Criteria was mostly demographics and geographical continuity at that time.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Sep 2011 21:43

vnadendla wrote:Nice post (really especially the idea that Caste, is not only a separator, but a big unifier). But way off mark.

We are NOT asking for Madras. The discussion is about why status quo ante is not possible and Telangana must compromise on Hyderabad. You cannot hear snippets of conversation and draw conclusions.

Saar, snippets? No saar, I have followed this dhaaga for sometime. All of us, at some point in time, have dissed people from other communities and nationalities. Nobody is clean. Since nobody is clean, it is best that we sit together, during discussions, and look at the actual problems people face and how to solve the issues. I have heard from telugu speaking people, the grudge they still nurse on Rajaji, and the wrath P.Chidamabara has invited. While what Rajaji or PC did or did not do could be discussed for pages, if one is going to cast aspersions on other Indians, and say tamilians are doing this as a revenge. I am sure telugu people have several legitimate complaints, so would tamilians, so would malayalees and others.

BTW, if Telangana is formed, then Hyderabad goes with it. Any other solution, is purely emotional and selfish. Anybody last check the location of Hyderabad in the Telangana region?

For now, I think the Editor of this site is going to be disappointed with us: http://sites.google.com/site/brfdiction ... age-brfite

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 22 Sep 2011 22:00

SwamyG wrote:
vnadendla wrote:Nice post (really especially the idea that Caste, is not only a separator, but a big unifier). But way off mark.

We are NOT asking for Madras. The discussion is about why status quo ante is not possible and Telangana must compromise on Hyderabad. You cannot hear snippets of conversation and draw conclusions.
Saar, snippets? No saar, I have followed this dhaaga for sometime. All of us, at some point in time, have dissed people from other communities and nationalities. Nobody is clean. Since nobody is clean, it is best that we sit together, during discussions, and look at the actual problems people face and how to solve the issues. I have heard from telugu speaking people, the grudge they still nurse on Rajaji, and the wrath P.Chidamabara has invited. While what Rajaji or PC did or did not do could be discussed for pages, if one is going to cast aspersions on other Indians, and say tamilians are doing this as a revenge. I am sure telugu people have several legitimate complaints, so would tamilians, so would malayalees and others.

BTW, if Telangana is formed, then Hyderabad goes with it. Any other solution, is purely emotional and selfish. Anybody last check the location of Hyderabad in the Telangana region?

For now, I think the Editor of this site is going to be disappointed with us: http://sites.google.com/site/brfdiction ... age-brfite

No Comments on rant.

About your telangana comment.
I am son of someone who moved out of TN to AP not because she was kicked out. But because over time the dominant group cornered all the opportunities. Telangana alleges same is happening in AP. But in Telangana they want to do the same to us in Hyd - very openly. This is the basis of KCR argument.

We don't want to be part of Telangana. We don't want to lose our properties. We don't want to lose our jobs. We don't want to be evicted. We are not a small number (50 Lakh) not dispersed (in one city and surroundings). This is a big enough group to ask for its own future just like Telangana asks for theirs. Nothing selfish and emotional about it. OR figure out a way to live together

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Sep 2011 22:51

^^^
Discrimination does not work. And if their words and acts are Unconstitutional, then authorities should step in. Asking for bifurcation is one thing, and threatening to kick out and take revenge is another. The later should be nipped in the bud, while the formed should be handled on a case to case basis.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Sep 2011 01:51

vnadendla,

"we don't want to be part of telangana".

you are in Hyderabad. you are in Telangana.

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 23 Sep 2011 01:59

SwamyG wrote:^^^
Discrimination does not work. And if their words and acts are Unconstitutional, then authorities should step in. Asking for bifurcation is one thing, and threatening to kick out and take revenge is another. The later should be nipped in the bud, while the formed should be handled on a case to case basis.

Except that it is not being nipped in bud. The very term "settler" is hurtfull and disgusting. Imagine being called a "settler" in your own lands (country). Nothing is being done to stop the use of that term or the more aggressive "throwing out the settlers from the T lands" phrase.

Or the belief amongst ordinary T people that once T is formed all the coastal "settlers" in Hyd and T will be forced to leave and that they can take the jobs and lands that will be vacated by the emigrating "settlers". If this belief continues to exist, even if T is formed the situation will be volatile for a long time.

Being called a "settler" in your own country is similar to being called an "Alien" in the US (which you will be if you are a non-American human).