Telangana Monitor

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2011 02:05

settler = Mohajir in urdu

Same connotation.

They used to call settlers non-Mulkis

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Sep 2011 02:06

devesh wrote:vnadendla,

"we don't want to be part of telangana".

you are in Hyderabad. you are in Telangana.

Meaning , we do not want to be part of Telangana state, I would think.

Parallels with azadi movement in J&K are evident.

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 23 Sep 2011 02:10

devesh wrote:vnadendla,

"we don't want to be part of telangana".

you are in Hyderabad. you are in Telangana.

Don't quibble. Ok let me rephrase. I am in Hyderabad the capital of Andhra Pradesh which is in telangana region. I don't want to be in a state spilit from Andhra Pradesh but would prefer to remain in Andhra Pradesh. It is not one person but 50 lakh people in a place. Hence our preferences too need to be considered.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Sep 2011 02:12

ramana ji, RamaY ji, and all others,

in the beginning of this thread, was there an analysis on the forces that are pushing for T and what their motives could be?

I have seen many TN people support T. this could be a repetition of the Cholas backing Eastern Chalukyas against Western Chalukyas.

it is possible that there are forces which want to see a Coastal Andhra that is administratively separated from "inland" so they can later extend their influence into the Upper Coastal areas of East Coast.

When Cholas played the EC against WC, they were one of the most powerful empires on Earth with influence reaching to SE Asia.

if in today's times, TN was a bastion of Dharma and represented strong interest in Bharatiya Civilization, I wouldn't be worried about it. but the deep penetration by EJ's in TN and also Coastal AP is very worrying.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2011 02:18

That was long ago and one good that came out of it was Telugu language.

We need to know more about the support for Telangana.

Its there from other states and the converse is also there.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Sep 2011 02:19

vnadendla wrote:
devesh wrote:vnadendla,

"we don't want to be part of telangana".

you are in Hyderabad. you are in Telangana.
Don't quibble. Ok let me rephrase. I am in Hyderabad the capital of Andhra Pradesh which is in telangana region. I don't want to be in a state spilit from Andhra Pradesh but would prefer to remain in Andhra Pradesh. It is not one person but 50 lakh people in a place. Hence our preferences too need to be considered.

have these "preferences" already been solidified or is there room for change?

I have outlined my reasons for why Hyd as UT would be a disaster. do you agree with this? or not?

if you do agree with my assessment that HYD UT would become an Islamist nerve center, then you also know that at some point Hindu population from Coast will have to compromise with Mullah-mafia complex.

if at that point, T forces approach and propose something that keeps the MMC from acquiring more power, will such a proposal be accepted, or will it be shafted b/c now you have your UT and there's nothing T forces can do?

and of course, what if T people start migrating into Hyd in larger numbers and try to intervene in MMC networks? what stance will Coastal Hindu settlers take then?

I am addressing these questions to you b/c you are the first one to say that Hindus from Coast represent a "separate" block of 50 lakh people.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Sep 2011 02:22

VenkataS wrote: Except that it is not being nipped in bud. The very term "settler" is hurtfull and disgusting. Imagine being called a "settler" in your own lands (country). Nothing is being done to stop the use of that term or the more aggressive "throwing out the settlers from the T lands" phrase.

I agree with you. Any individual or group causing hatred among people should be severely dealt. I personally own property in Hyderabad; my relatives via marriage own properties in Hyderabad. They own and operate businesses that provide taxes and generate employment. I have heard their anxiety and fears. Individuals should be able to work anywhere in the country, without being discriminated against or treated inhumanely.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Sep 2011 02:23

ramana wrote:That was long ago and one good that came out of it was Telugu language.

We need to know more about the support for Telangana.

Its there from other states and the converse is also there.

History repeats itself. all these models have been gamed. and model I am talking about yielded rich results for those who were in control of Chola lands at that time.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Sep 2011 02:37

devesh wrote:ramana ji, RamaY ji, and all others,

in the beginning of this thread, was there an analysis on the forces that are pushing for T and what their motives could be?

I have seen many TN people support T. this could be a repetition of the Cholas backing Eastern Chalukyas against Western Chalukyas.

it is possible that there are forces which want to see a Coastal Andhra that is administratively separated from "inland" so they can later extend their influence into the Upper Coastal areas of East Coast.

When Cholas played the EC against WC, they were one of the most powerful empires on Earth with influence reaching to SE Asia.

if in today's times, TN was a bastion of Dharma and represented strong interest in Bharatiya Civilization, I wouldn't be worried about it. but the deep penetration by EJ's in TN and also Coastal AP is very worrying.

You are an idiot. Seriously, dude do you think you can come out blabbering here? You are absolutely reaching out to your last grey cells, TN people support to Telangana. How did you come to that conclusion, huh? Because of PC? Because of me? Because of few BRFites?

WTF do you mean bastion of Dharma, huh? You swallow the kewl-aid given out on the internet. Yes, EJs are rampant. So are they in AP. For crying out aloud, AP was ruled by a convert and you come whining here casting aspersions on fellow Indians. Shame on you.

Ramana garu:
Are you encouraging such posts? Knowing where you stand, I do not think so. You take pride in all the sub-cultures of India, I ask you to moderate such kind of moronic posts. Please. Do you think for a moment, tamilians are sitting in their drawing rooms, and devising plans to take over Andhra? Do you think TN government is planning to steal land from AP? I know you have connections to Madras, and you very well know how Tamilians and Telugus get along. If you give rope to such sentiments, then every idiot and moron is going to throw darts call it their theories, study, analysis or what not and blame each other. I thought you strongly are against blue on blue fire.

Maybe as an admin, you do not have the luxury and have to stand all types of fools, including me; probably your post also requires you to give enough room for people to express theories, conspiracy theories and wild-ass theories. So I do understand you have a tough job; but I like you to clarify, since you participate in this particular dhaaga, if you consider tamilians to be scheming and plotting a split of Andhra. People are quite welcome to blame P.Chidambaram, call him names, and even attribute him to be a disgusting schemer and even say he is chauvinistic and is planning the split. My question is not about him, about tamilians. Blaming PC or a few tamilians with names is quite valid.

Please express your stance.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2011 02:42

Did you read my post above your own?

I said there is support for Telengana and the converse is also there.

No where is there a broad brush stroking of any state by me.

BTW, Please dont call devesh names.

Thanks, ramana

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Sep 2011 03:25

Ramana: I have not accused you, nor I have alleged any thing. In fact, I have said you take pride on different sub-cultures and hold you on high esteem. Yes, I saw your line
"I said there is support for Telengana and the converse is also there."
What exactly does that sentence mean? I could read between the lines or attribute a meaning that you did not intend. It could be a simple fault of my understanding. Hence I asked you the questions as simply as I can. My question still stands, do you think tamilians are scheming to split Andhra?

Sorry, he deserves something even harsher words. All I can tell you is you are not nipping certain sentiments and thoughts in the bud, just like the Telangana politicians are allowing Telananga folks to diss on Coastal Andhras, by remaining mute, even if you don't agree with his words, you are allowing such sentiments to grow here. Sensing a similarity, I addressed the questions to you.

Once you clearly answer my question, then I will be more at ease. I will know for sure the BRF Leadership does not encourage hatred camouflaged as strategic thoughts.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Sep 2011 03:38

Tamil-conspiracy theories are a persistent meme in coastal andhra people and won't go away by calling the theorists idiots etc. It is ironic that coastals are targets of a parallel meme in Telangana DNA. IMO both are irrational and are examples of built-in splittist tendencies in the motherland. Their discussion can be carried out rationally on a different thread.

To me, the T movement is a case of naxal-feudal nexus with an anti-Indian anti-humanist ethos and therefore should be crushed. Without the naxal-feudal foundation, all issues like Hyd, development etc become tractable whether in 1 state or multi state framework.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Sep 2011 03:57

SwamyG,

I will try to rationally explain my post without descending into a rant.

WTF do you mean bastion of Dharma, huh? You swallow the kewl-aid given out on the internet. Yes, EJs are rampant. So are they in AP. For crying out aloud, AP was ruled by a convert and you come whining here casting aspersions on fellow Indians. Shame on you.

if you've actually read my posts, you would notice that I have been saying for a long time that AP is facing a relentless onslaught by EJ's. this battle is especially fierce on the Coastal side. the same EJ infiltration has been taking place in TN too. Kerala of course, is a known case to all.

what I've been saying is that India's history has been studied thoroughly by the interested parties and that they have probably modeled every scenario including past happenings and analyzed the results exhaustively. following that line, the special focus of EJ's on Kerala+TN+AP is very similar to the Chola+Vengi (Eastern Chalukya) nexus that emerged 1000 years ago.

based on this, there is a clear historical precedent where this geographic combination was able to sustain a powerful empire which was also a huge naval power and was able to use that power to culturally colonize South East Asia. this model *probably* appeals to the "interested parties" b/c of their inherent affinity for Naval power and the rabid compulsion to enforce intellectual colonization (EJ fundamentalism).

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 23 Sep 2011 04:21

devesh wrote:SwamyG,

I will try to rationally explain my post without descending into a rant.

WTF do you mean bastion of Dharma, huh? You swallow the kewl-aid given out on the internet. Yes, EJs are rampant. So are they in AP. For crying out aloud, AP was ruled by a convert and you come whining here casting aspersions on fellow Indians. Shame on you.

if you've actually read my posts, you would notice that I have been saying for a long time that AP is facing a relentless onslaught by EJ's. this battle is especially fierce on the Coastal side. the same EJ infiltration has been taking place in TN too. Kerala of course, is a known case to all.

what I've been saying is that India's history has been studied thoroughly by the interested parties and that they have probably modeled every scenario including past happenings and analyzed the results exhaustively. following that line, the special focus of EJ's on Kerala+TN+AP is very similar to the Chola+Vengi (Eastern Chalukya) nexus that emerged 1000 years ago.

based on this, there is a clear historical precedent where this geographic combination was able to sustain a powerful empire which was also a huge naval power and was able to use that power to culturally colonize South East Asia. this model *probably* appeals to the "interested parties" b/c of their inherent affinity for Naval power and the rabid compulsion to enforce intellectual colonization (EJ fundamentalism).

Devesh you hit something I mentioned to Ramana that it may not be Telangana the powers want separate but Andhra.
Keep looking for clues in that thread of thought process.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Sep 2011 04:55

Devesh: You call your analysis rational? I call it throwing darts

I have read your posts.

You said "I have seen many TN people support T. " You did not say "I have seen many EJs support T". You did not say "I have seen many Tamil Christians support T".

You go on to say "this could be a repetition of the Cholas backing Eastern Chalukyas against Western Chalukyas."

This might be news to you, but India is a country - Union of States. AP, TN etc are States. These are not independent kingdoms like Cholas or Chalukyas. By suggesting history repeats itself, you are saying people from TN, AP and elsewhere are behaving to upset the cart of each other.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 23 Sep 2011 05:18

@ShyamSP. if T movement is an EJ project to break off the coast then why was YSR against it?

It could be that if coast is separated from T the EJs might be able to exploit it. But that doesn't show intent to cause separation. And EJs are flourishing even now, so what is the incentive to break off T?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2011 05:19

The record stands and I dont explain. You know as well as any one I don't support divisiveness anywhere.

Lets return to topic.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Sep 2011 05:21

SwamyG,

individuals and even large communities don't need to consciously do anything. if the political/social movements are infiltrated by foreign interests, then they can guide these movements in specific directions. take DMK for example. a committed foreign ideology was able to plant seeds of DMK thought process. in the end, DMK became one of the 2 biggest parties in TN and has been able to influence politics, culture, and social thinking. and under their protection, certain influences have been allowed to spread freely.

think about how many sections on AP Coast have become suspicious of PC's Tamil connections, but YS Jagan and Co are keeping completely quiet on this. this is an emotional issue which Jagan can exploit to make inroads in Coastal AP. He's smart enough to have realized this already. yet, he's not exploiting an issue that is ripe for the picking.....why is Jagan not doing it?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 23 Sep 2011 05:24

KLNMurthy wrote:@ShyamSP. if T movement is an EJ project to break off the coast then why was YSR against it?

It could be that if coast is separated from T the EJs might be able to exploit it. But that doesn't show intent to cause separation. And EJs are flourishing even now, so what is the incentive to break off T?

this is where the supposedly "spiritual" element gets enmeshed into the broader politico-imperial goals that are underwriting the EJ's.
Brihaspati ji has highlighted several times that when push comes to shove, the "spiritual" missionaries will always side with the forces that fund and guide them, including providing "support" for any imperial projects that are designed to help their masters.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 23 Sep 2011 13:22

Still with the same rona dhona conspiracy theories. I'm in contact with people living deep inside telangana(away from hyd) and I can tell you that everything has come to a standstill. Nothing is working. People have stopped going to work. Hardly any vehicles could be spotted on roads. The streets are deserted. Even in the smallest villages that have 5-10 shops max along the highways have been closed since several days. Are you telling me that these people who hardly make 1000-2000/month have naxal/kcr/tamil/ysr/etc etc connections? lol

I find your delusions very shocking. You really are oblivious about the ground situation in your home state.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 23 Sep 2011 16:35

nvishal wrote:Still with the same rona dhona conspiracy theories. I'm in contact with people living deep inside telangana(away from hyd) and I can tell you that everything has come to a standstill. Nothing is working. People have stopped going to work. Hardly any vehicles could be spotted on roads. The streets are deserted. Even in the smallest villages that have 5-10 shops max along the highways have been closed since several days. Are you telling me that these people who hardly make 1000-2000/month have naxal/kcr/tamil/ysr/etc etc connections? lol

I find your delusions very shocking. You really are oblivious about the ground situation in your home state.

I do not know where you get this information. I am actually travelling in these districts and I did travel using RTC buses. Sure there is impact but nothing earth shattering or standstill. Everyone wants some images. Once the media covers and images are taken, the life is back to normal. There is a tacit understanding between the so called coasta-media housed and T-movement. It is all pure hafta collecting ops. T-movement has reached Shiv Sena/MNS style ops.

For example, the private schools are closed as per official decree but a lot of schools are conducting exams and they want to give holidays only after the exams. My neice's school is conducting exams on both Sat and Sun.

It is just foolish to think people will revolt at the cost of their bread and butter. Even the TRS or Kodanda Ram also knows it is difficult to sustain at the cost of bread and butter for commoners.

I spoke to atleast 10 taxi drivers in HYD. They all say that they did not lose much of business. However, they say that they may have got more as tourists numbers decreased.

Another thing, unless they stop the lives of other regions in true sense, what is that T folks will really achieve? By closing your own house what is that you are impacting?

Per grapevine the T-state is really stopped using Hyderabad as a negotiating point. Couple of months ago, T was offered to T-Vadis minus Hyderabad. Then T-vadis came up with 5 year and 10 year stuff. It is a give or take for T-vadis and were asked to come with alternatives. If T is to be given there will be no Hyd in it. In fact this is a decision by the business and for the business. In a grand party by a top biz man with a lot of political connections the decision was made. Gulam Azad attended the party too. The real estate knows this too. Projects are getting revived and it is going up inspite of RBI rates increase.

Note: I am not trying to say that T will not form or T will not have HYD. T formation is a huge flux inspite of all the agitations. By the way the interactions between T-folks and the folks from other regions is very mature and not that we see on BRF

. Both the sides in the discussion stick to their points and I had a great discussion on RTC bus when it was stopped for an hour (to do the media stuff of dharna) on the outskirts of Suryapet. More later.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 23 Sep 2011 17:07

nvishal wrote: I'm in contact with people living deep inside telangana(away from hyd) and I can tell you that everything has come to a standstill. Nothing is working. People have stopped going to work. Hardly any vehicles could be spotted on roads. The streets are deserted. Even in the smallest villages that have 5-10 shops max along the highways have been closed since several days. Are you telling me that these people who hardly make 1000-2000/month have naxal/kcr/tamil/ysr/etc etc connections? lol

Do you really want us to buy this? How sustainable is it for say a small time Kirana shop owner to close down shop indefinitely for a dream of T formation? Who will pay for this? Are you saying the lay man is THIS motivated?? Yes a few trade unions have extended support more due to the commie/naxal connections of the agitation nothing more. I have relatives in Godavarikhani and life seems as normal as Hyd there. Buses are fewer and the auto-wallahs make a killing..life goes on till the buses return...

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 23 Sep 2011 17:55

devesh wrote:
"Don't quibble. Ok let me rephrase. I am in Hyderabad the capital of Andhra Pradesh which is in telangana region. I don't want to be in a state spilit from Andhra Pradesh but would prefer to remain in Andhra Pradesh. It is not one person but 50 lakh people in a place. Hence our preferences too need to be considered"

have these "preferences" already been solidified or is there room for change?

I have outlined my reasons for why Hyd as UT would be a disaster. do you agree with this? or not?

if you do agree with my assessment that HYD UT would become an Islamist nerve center, then you also know that at some point Hindu population from Coast will have to compromise with Mullah-mafia complex.

if at that point, T forces approach and propose something that keeps the MMC from acquiring more power, will such a proposal be accepted, or will it be shafted b/c now you have your UT and there's nothing T forces can do?

and of course, what if T people start migrating into Hyd in larger numbers and try to intervene in MMC networks? what stance will Coastal Hindu settlers take then?

I am addressing these questions to you b/c you are the first one to say that Hindus from Coast represent a "separate" block of 50 lakh people.

I don't agree that Hyd UT (with GHMC limits) will become a Islamist nerve center. As UT some of the political crap by and large will subside if GOI is serious. Revival of business will bring new enterprising people into city including people from T. I expect it to grow into something like mini Delhi which I suppose is plan all along - a second capital of India defacto because of blessing of geography. Thats why the # of defense establishments in city.

This sounds similar to KCR's argument. So let me explain where it is different. KCR claims once T is given and "settlers" are gone then people world over will recognise Hyderabad as happening city and come in droves to invest and thats how Hyd is going to revive (I paraphased from memory - don't have original). This is wishy washy. Aside -He also claims "settlers" have nothing to do with Hyd booming economy and its foreigners who made it grow.

My claim is that I can expect 2 year roll back in business sentiment if there is a clean Hyd UT away from political crap of T etc. Of course rollback of T agitation will bring same effect but at smaller scale due to lingering suspision.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 23 Sep 2011 19:28

We are having offices in Hyderabad and they are working. I asked people there who have told me that there is some impact in some areas and otherwise they are doing work. Buses from Bangalore are going to Hyderabad. In respect of the stopping life, we as society are ready shut our life at the smallest of the threats. That is why Bandh are favorable instruments of the Indian political class and anarchists like over grounds naxals. A micro minority can make these things happen. So it is no doubt that there is every possibility that TRS and its naxal supporters made life difficult for the people of Telangana.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Sep 2011 19:31

vnadendla, Your name sake said in TANA that the AP GDP stagnated already for two years. Its zero growth since the Dec 9th decison.

I know him since he was kid.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Sep 2011 20:27

Muppalla wrote: Note: I am not trying to say that T will not form or T will not have HYD. T formation is a huge flux inspite of all the agitations. By the way the interactions between T-folks and the folks from other regions is very mature and not that we see on BRF . Both the sides in the discussion stick to their points and I had a great discussion on RTC bus when it was stopped for an hour (to do the media stuff of dharna) on the outskirts of Suryapet. More later.

+1. My brother is a GHMC contractor and his interactions with T-locals and T-vadis are mature and mutually affectionate. Every sane Telugu knows that Telangana-Kosta-Rayalaseema regions enriched each other in many ways. Each region learned that they can achieve more by learning things from each other and 1+1+1 > 3.

vnadendla · Post by **vnadendla** » 23 Sep 2011 20:28

Narayana Rao wrote:We are having offices in Hyderabad and they are working. I asked people there who have told me that there is some impact in some areas and otherwise they are doing work. Buses from Bangalore are going to Hyderabad. In respect of the stopping life, we as society are ready shut our life at the smallest of the threats. That is why Bandh are favorable instruments of the Indian political class and anarchists like over grounds naxals. A micro minority can make these things happen. So it is no doubt that there is every possibility that TRS and its naxal supporters made life difficult for the people of Telangana.

This is called governance. We are better than 20-30 years ago. Just like for YSR / Jagan, the system must mature enough to call KCR to book once everything settles down. Then that is deterance for future mischief mongerers. Not to say political action is wrong. But methods were wrong.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Sep 2011 21:49

devesh wrote:SwamyG,

individuals and even large communities don't need to consciously do anything. if the political/social movements are infiltrated by foreign interests, then they can guide these movements in specific directions. take DMK for example. a committed foreign ideology was able to plant seeds of DMK thought process. in the end, DMK became one of the 2 biggest parties in TN and has been able to influence politics, culture, and social thinking. and under their protection, certain influences have been allowed to spread freely.

think about how many sections on AP Coast have become suspicious of PC's Tamil connections, but YS Jagan and Co are keeping completely quiet on this. this is an emotional issue which Jagan can exploit to make inroads in Coastal AP. He's smart enough to have realized this already. yet, he's not exploiting an issue that is ripe for the picking.....why is Jagan not doing it?

If you look at the Caste Politics in the early 20th century in South Linky, you will see that all sorts of people were involved. Tamilians, Malayalalees and Telugu. The Kannadigas were not as involved. It was essentially a power play, because the other forward and backward castes used the angst against Brahmins by the general population to their advantage. Except a few Dalit individuals most of the leaders were not more the MBCs or SC/STs.

There were several movements in that period. INC and Christian missionaries were just lurking around to fracture or use the situation to their advantage.

In spite of all the wrath DK and DMK invites; if you compare feudalism or discrimination on other castes, I would say TN has fared slightly better. There is a long way to go. You still hear horror stories of how harijans get treated by one of the BC or MBC people. In spite of all these things, you have vast number of temples and Hindus. They might not be exactly the way you or others want. But they are Hindus.

Church planting is an issue, no doubt and I do not deny that. I also accept TN and AP are high when it comes to foreign fund - especially the Christian Missionaries money. The entire country comes under the 10-40 Window, and EJs are actively scouting every state. They have money, muscle and good strategy.

I am not sure what you mean by PC's tamil connections. He is a tamilian. If you suspect or have evidence against PC, blast him by all means. But do not go about saying TN is not a bastion of dharma, TN people are doing this and that. You go into the past, bring past strategies and tactics and then dump them on the present conditions. The frameworks of the past and present are different.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 23 Sep 2011 21:52

Telangana on boil, strike continues
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 092362.cms

Telangana panel calls for militant struggle
http://www.inewsone.com/2011/09/23/tela ... ggle/78663

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Sep 2011 21:54

ramana wrote:The record stands and I dont explain. You know as well as any one I don't support divisiveness anywhere.

Lets return to topic.

Sorry Ramana garu, you need to understand where I am coming from. Let us take the Telangana issue itself. So if an individual supporting Telangana, emotionally drunk, charged with past prejudices and biases utters that after the bifurcation, all coastal people will be driven out of Hyderabad. Don't you think a shopkeeper in Hyderabad, originally hailing from the Coast, wants to know from the leaders of Telangana to know if the view is of the leadership or just one or few individuals?

Isn't it reasonable for anyone to expect the leadership to crisply explain their position? In the absence of clear explanation, matters just get worse.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 24 Sep 2011 03:46

KLNMurthy wrote:@ShyamSP. if T movement is an EJ project to break off the coast then why was YSR against it?

It could be that if coast is separated from T the EJs might be able to exploit it. But that doesn't show intent to cause separation. And EJs are flourishing even now, so what is the incentive to break off T?

EJ != YSR. EJ is a process. If they bet on a person, what happens when the person is sent for a Helicopter ride?
YSR consolidated EJ money to his family. Brother Anil rose at the expense of others like KA Paul. It was side
business for them without them being any EJ.

Theory#1 for T movement is that central parties want to break back of regional parties by creating smaller states
so they look taller with weak regional parties. Same can be applied to EJ and their bosses thinking. EJ'ing in
T is difficult than non-T due to dhimmification so bigger state like AP is still threat to mass conversion so divide and
attack may be strategy. Besides, Cholamandal is good target to achieve.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Sep 2011 04:35

It appears that Kodandarami Reddy now wants people to be ready for militant struggle. What is the views on the BRFites like Devesh Garu who support division of AP on such development?

My view is KCR and his gang really do not want division and are interested in blackmail collection and Kodandarami Reddy is only interested to make Telangana a liberated Zone for nexals and reestablish the naxal control in major parts of AP. EJ/Sonia gang wants control on AP and destruction of TDP. BJP wants foothold in Telangana. TDP wants to come back to power None of the main actors want to do some good for Telugu people. For these objectives they don't mind destroying AP state.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Sep 2011 04:42

SwamyG garu,

You are driven by emotions. Please think for a moment.

KCR has been lobbying with other political parties and leaders to achieve his dream, a separate T-state. No one knows if he is doing this for altruistic reasons or for personal benefits.

Why would a Sharad Pawar or MK or Didi or Maya or JJ or 2G or SS or LKA support a KCR in his quest for a separate T-state or otherwise? What drives their decision making process.

Like you said, many Telugus dislike Rajaji for his attitude towards T.Prakasam and how he created fissures between Kosta and Rayalaseema leadership by first denying TPs suggestions and then blaming TP for not getting equal representation of kosta and Rayalaseema.

Like the Tvadis blame for all their ills on Andhra people, there is a possibility that Tamilian leadership might carry their past prejudices in exploiting today's Telugu fissures.

You and Stan thought my calling certain T-Vadis as pakis is in bad taste. Then what about you calling Deveshji idiot? Don't you think you owe him an apology, especially when you want to treat all Indians as brothers?

Like I said in 2G thread, today's india resembles the india of 1900s. The 2G group is the new British with their own candidates as viceroys, governors and babus, indians are granted some self-representation in the name of mlas and MPs only as long as the die-nasty rule is preserved, but are dethroned when they question the die-nasty. In such a scenario every presidency and satrap is on their own and expected to extend his rule/influence as long as he is protecting the die-nasty's hold on the colony.

In such a scenario Deveshji's concern of older Chola linkages trying to exploit older EC and WC fissures is very much possible. The more we change the more we remain constant. That is why you and Stan get upset every time someone question the T-angle.

P.S: I seriously doubt moderators are our rulers, who must explain themselves. Their mandate is limited to keep our debates civil and the respect for Bharat is not tarnished.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Sep 2011 04:45

Narayana Rao wrote:It appears that Kodandarami Reddy now wants people to be ready for militant struggle. What is the views on the BRFites like Devesh Garu who support division of AP on such development?

My view is KCR and his gang really do not want division and are interested in blackmail collection and Kodandarami Reddy is only interested to make Telangana a liberated Zone for nexals and reestablish the naxal control in major parts of AP. EJ/Sonia gang wants control on AP and destruction of TDP. BJP wants foothold in Telangana. TDP wants to come back to power None of the main actors want to do some good for Telugu people. For these objectives they don't mind destroying AP state.

The day T-agitation turns militant, it becomes a legitimate target for state oppression. This moorkh Kodandaram doesn't know that.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Sep 2011 06:05

Call for militancy are going on for sometime. Jana Reddy a cabinet minister of AP warned/reminded the Union Government two three months back that Telanana people fought Indian Army and if telangana is not given history will repeat itself. There are regular attacks on the houses on the political leaders from Congress and TDP who to not agree with TRS and open attacks on TDP leaders meetings and processions by TRS. It is perhaps first time in AP history that houses of political leaders are attacked. I do not think even in West Bengal such things happen under communist and even DMK and AAIDMK with all their fighting do such things. Jurnalists Parakala Prabhakar's house is also attacked ( No one in the media tried to cover it)

So already this agitation has cross some thresholds and no longer civil to those who does not agree with it or who are not ready to be nasty like its leaders. So let us not surprised if a call for armed struggle is given in near future. After all we have seen what happend on Tankbund status.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 24 Sep 2011 06:50

SwamyG wrote:Devesh: You call your analysis rational? I call it throwing darts I have read your posts.

You said "I have seen many TN people support T. " You did not say "I have seen many EJs support T". You did not say "I have seen many Tamil Christians support T".

You go on to say "this could be a repetition of the Cholas backing Eastern Chalukyas against Western Chalukyas." This might be news to you, but India is a country - Union of States. AP, TN etc are States. These are not independent kingdoms like Cholas or Chalukyas. By suggesting history repeats itself, you are saying people from TN, AP and elsewhere are behaving to upset the cart of each other.

I suspect it's all very chankian. They're secretly pro-Telangana folks who by accusing all and sundry are hoping to shore up pan-Indian support for the cause. And it's working too. I wasn't sure to start with but since I've found out I'm party to grand Chola conspiracy I'm getting with the plan. Do we have a secret handshake?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 24 Sep 2011 08:53

Lol. Me emotions? Waa re wah. I would say pot is calling the kettle black, if I was truly driven by emotions. But I can say this much, people living in glass mansions don't throw stones at people on the streets.

Boss, it is very clear outside and inside BRF, there are some Telugus who think very little of Tamilians. I say some, because I know several Telugus who do not. I am married into a Telugu family, I should know something.

Stan and me? I would advise you to not club me with anyone. I am not responsible for what another BRFite says. I do not club you with anyone else, and I expect that you do the same thing.

So you do an == of you calling T-vaadis as Pakis and me calling Devesh an idiot. LoL. Your emotions and biases cloud your thought. One of these days, I am going to end up calling you an idiot too

Nope, I don't treat anyone else as my brother or sister {http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1146706} And I have no such expectations on others. BTW, if my brother or sister, says idiotic things, I would call it out.

Possibility? LoL. Dude if you keep conspiring this way, I am going to fast lose what little respect I have for you. You lost a dose of it, when you did not keep the end of your bargain when we argued about the US relations. It is more than a year now. You have no idea, on why I get upset. You are happy to throw darts around sitting in your comfy room. Who am I if you chose to make a mockery of yourself.

Keep talking about how "tamilians are destroying us" it will serve you really good. It reminds me of the joke: A man loses his ring in a park. Later that night he returns to the park and searches under a lamppost. A passerby stops, asks why and what he is searching. The man explains that he lost the ring when he was sitting under the tree early in the afternoon. The passerby questions "what are you doing under the lamp-post then?". The man says "It is dark near the tree, it is bright here, hence I am searching for the ring here onlee".

Wait for the day when some moron tamilian turns around and starts whining and blames Telugu people for all his problems. When question on the validity, he could turn around and say "Well, in the past, Telegu kings did come deep into the tamil territory and create havoc". I did see how Theo managed to push some buttons some time back when he talked about Vijayanagar Empire.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Sep 2011 09:18

Exactly my point. We all have our prejudices. That is why you are getting upset whenever someone questions the Tamilian angle. I clubbed you with Stan because only you two seem to protect all Tamilian interests in the world (while accusing us for showing Telugu-chauvinism).

I dont understand your heartburn. If it is so important I request you to remind me of the discussion you are talking about. All I remember is a discussion where I am supposed to get back to you on the Christian foundations of USA nation state.

You don't have to take my word for the TN-axis w.r.t T-state issue. Nowadays TRS and every other 2-bit T-Vadi is accusing PC for his meddling in this issue. You seem to think he is doing it for his personal greed. I believe that it is another Rajaji moment as it happened with TPrakasam.

I do not understand why your are getting hyper about it. I was the one who called certain t-Vadis pakis. Devesh joined this discussion as a T-Vadi. Yet we both think PC has a sinister motive in exploiting this issue...

P.S: people show their true colors when a issue that is close to their heart comes to debate, as we saw with Chacko Joseph, JJ etc., Perhaps you found your sweet spot.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 24 Sep 2011 09:33

The tone on this thread is getting very divisive....some ground rules need to be set.

negi · Post by **negi** » 24 Sep 2011 09:37

pradeepe wrote:Negi, the governance argument cannot not make sense and should be considered in all seriousness. Buts thats not the platform and agument made by the Telangana proponents. They have shifted and weaved when trying to understand what it was they were looking for. And no, not just random folks venting, like one gent on this forum, but just look at the utterings of the top echelon of the Telangana front. They might have rallied and sounded off with the telangana cry as nothing more than a political opportunity, but the subsequent monster they have created and the scent of blood they are using to rally it further is scary. The folks being played are just cannon fodder.

Well Pradepe I am not talking about the political front running the Telangana movement I am actually talking about the people on ground who are being taken for a ride; there is no clear demarcation as to who is for or against Telangana as far as politicians are concerned everyone has made a promise that they will carve out a state by that name. I have always been a firm believer in the fact that when someone living under a same roof wants to have his share it's always better to oblige as there is no point in trying to make things work for both parties will suffer at the end of the day. People are asking for a different state within republic of India I for one don't understand what's the problem here; all this talk of oh he called me a settler is just so kiddish .