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ShyamSP wrote:
Looks like there is hidden commie in you
The commie technique is to "rob the rich and feed the poor". The spirit behind is to keep the distance between poor and rich so the commies can keep their jobs to show the oppressors to the oppressed.
My recommended approach is use tax revenues to enable (capital investments + training; while giving them stipend during the project duration) the poor so they too become economically active and pay taxes to the state.
$100000 investment fetches $5000 per year (@5% rate). If you're investment is $1000, you fetch only $50. You can't reach equilibrium unless you apply grab and distribute commie technique. To reach equilibrium, let's hog Delhi/Mumbai in development until Hyderabad reaches their level.
Given proper irrigation, 1 acre land in telangana gives same harvest as an acre in Andhra.
KSKumar wrote:Please explain what "raising costs of the status quo for Andhrites" means?
I will read that in context to the other hot heads from this region who have been saying the same thing in a more direct manner, viz., kick them out and snatch their "wealth".
You could have asked this question before ( which I think is a fair follow up question to my post)?
Why can't raising the costs mean more intense civil disobediance movement, more peaceful non-cooperation, more targetted public relations campaign with straight facts within and without Telangana, better coordination within the political parties of Telangana - these steps will raise costs way too higher than what is being done today which has an element of hotch-potch to it even though the move is based on a solid, very very real grievances of Andhrites shafting Telanganas and the region being treated as a colony in Independent India.
How will that raise the costs of status quo for "Andhrites"? Isn't that what TRS/BJP have been doing for the last 2 years? Why will more of the same raise costs for anyone?
Will non-cooperation/strikes only raise costs for "andhrites"? Anyway, in your book, all "andhrites" in Telangana are rich and well to do. If buses stop and Govt. services do not work, why will costs for them be higher than the marginal people in Telangana (for whom all activists are crying buckets)?
And what "facts". All I hear from you are polemics. Even TRS and Telangana Political Leaders of other parties have moved on from the "depreived" argument. Now they talk of "Self-rule" and "self-respect".
These are feelings/setinments. Facts, they are not.
Don't shy away from your initial instinct. You did mean violence and kicking them hated "andhrites" out.
ShyamSP wrote:
Looks like there is hidden commie in you
The commie technique is to "rob the rich and feed the poor". The spirit behind is to keep the distance between poor and rich so the commies can keep their jobs to show the oppressors to the oppressed.
My recommended approach is use tax revenues to enable (capital investments + training; while giving them stipend during the project duration) the poor so they too become economically active and pay taxes to the state.
$100000 investment fetches $5000 per year (@5% rate). If you're investment is $1000, you fetch only $50. You can't reach equilibrium unless you apply grab and distribute commie technique. To reach equilibrium, let's hog Delhi/Mumbai in development until Hyderabad reaches their level.
Given proper irrigation, 1 acre land in telangana gives same harvest as an acre in Andhra.
Thats plain wrong. Nature of soil, fertility, weather, pests, Seeds, care taken there are many more factors. In some Telangana is at disadvantage. Highlands will not get delta yields. But Highlands cost much less than deltas.
vishnua wrote:[quote="RamaY]+1. Got similar inputs from locals in Nizamabad dist when I visited there a couple of months back.
Ramay,
which parts of Nizamabad dist did you visit? Just asking..[/quote][/quote]
Surroundings of Basara. I fell in love with that place. Wanted to get some farm land for myself to grow an archid... the people were in all praise for Andhras for their knowledge in irrigation. They were also happy that the land prices are increasing due to andhras.
One personal opinion. This is a good thing IMO. The andhras buying lands means the projects are going to materialize. An example is Bellari Dist. My uncles bought land there at dirt-cheap prices but invested consistently to improve the land (it was all stones 20 yrs ago) and the irrigation infra. There was backlash at them too in 1990s.
One rumor is that GoAP did not fight much on Almetty dam because most of the lands there were owned by andhra people.
KSKumar wrote:How will that raise the costs of status quo for "Andhrites"?
Similar to how peaceful Indian independence movement raised costs on British.
Isn't that what TRS/BJP have been doing for the last 2 years? Why will more of the same raise costs for anyone?
No. Much more intense is called for.
Will non-cooperation/strikes only raise costs for "andhrites"? Anyway, in your book, all "andhrites" in Telangana are rich and well to do. If buses stop and Govt. services do not work, why will costs for them be higher than the marginal people in Telangana (for whom all activists are crying buckets)?
They are getting shafted anyway all this while. Costs will rise on Andhrites also. Just as with increased awareness, people shun IT folks from Andhra at least in places where talent is critical, this will work too in shunning relations with folks colonising fellow Indians.
And what "facts". All I hear from you are polemics. Even TRS and Telangana Political Leaders of other parties have moved on from the "depreived" argument. Now they talk of "Self-rule" and "self-respect".
These are feelings/setinments. Facts, they are not.
Don't shy away from your initial instinct. You did mean violence and kicking them hated "andhrites" out.
I rest my case. Also thanks for truckload of "facts".
“Who is TRS president K Chandrasekhara Rao to accept the proposal for joint capital? Andhras should not be allowed to stay in Hyderabad even for a minute. Otherwise, it would be difficult for us to get them vacated. We want Telangana to be in the pre-1956 form,” he thundered.
With friends like this, T-movement doesn't need enemies.
“Who is TRS president K Chandrasekhara Rao to accept the proposal for joint capital? Andhras should not be allowed to stay in Hyderabad even for a minute. Otherwise, it would be difficult for us to get them vacated. We want Telangana to be in the pre-1956 form,” he thundered.
With friends like this, T-movement doesn't need enemies.
This is in response to TRS and Congress deal. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7VNxAuslUE)
In my post couple of pages back, I told TRS ditching BJP for Congress via deal with MIM.
BJP has become "Kukkalu Chimpina Visthari", besides TRS Kukka peed on the Visthari after using it.
Ch Vidya Sagar Rao is too much a chum and became a tail for KCR. BJP needs to kick him out or whole mafia family will screw BJP name.
(Wear Congress flag around neck and get BJP flags wrapped around destruction)
Narendra will be right Mogudu for KCR to slowly release all past deeds of KCR.
Velangana in the offing? Velangana is much better than Telangana for TRS as Reddys can be kept out.
* Congress, MIM, Jagan peace deal
* Congress, MIM, TRS merger deal
* Capital-sharing option with ditching BJP
* Warangal as Capital (http://www.gulte.com/news/1151/Centre-m ... tal-for-T-)
* Reiteration and emphasis of Neutral stand by CBN
* TDP accusing TRS and Congress of secret deal.
Four possible states for Congress winning: Velamgana, Reddy Rajyam, Kamma Rastram, Kapu nadu
Not going to work sir. There is no one to mobilize congress workers everywhere. If There is division it will be end of congress party in Non Telangana areas and TRS on its own may not join Congress. But since they have lot of dirt on KCR and his criminal activities they may force the issue. But i wonder. Caste based politics in AP has a problem because the main political gangs of Kamma and Reddys dont have numbers in the people. They main advantage is the money power and a marked lack of interest from other people. Further caste politics require very low levels of education and lack of political awareness. We can not say AP has that condition. Yes there can be caste mobilizations to some extent. But political leaders can not depend on the caste combinations alone in AP. Chiru lost one MLA seat in 2009 wherein his community is suppose to be very strong. Further the transferability of votes is also not going to be there. Leaders like Chiru or Botsa can not carry their voters enmass like Mayavathi.
This was a surprise. They are reporting power cuts in the states of maharashtra, karnataka, AP and tamil nadu. Singareni must have been a significant and a reliable supplier.
This was a surprise. They are reporting power cuts in the states of maharashtra, karnataka, AP and tamil nadu. Singareni must have been a significant and a reliable supplier.
Are you not familiar with situation where small disturbance in crude oil supply creates enormous strain on the overall supply position, shooting the prices up disproportionately? When we have energy situation where the demand is always greater than supply, a 2000 MW reduction, less than 5% of sothern grid, creates significant imbalance. That is what is happening now?
Somebody here wanted to increase the cost of status quo for Andhra, but instead end up impacting mostly Telangana farmers. The saying 'cherapakuraachedevu' (Who try to ruin others, get ruined first) is apt. Isn't it?
I am not a technical expert on water resources issues. However, I ask this question repeatedly to several persons:
why are the 116 - 5MIM= 111 T legislators could not force anything? why it has to be a complaint that Andhras are this asura or that asura ? T has several layers of elections and they do have village panchayats and also ZPPs. When these folks go for votes what are the people demand? why not forcing stuff as T pressure groups?
KCR was a TDP person too and he has no record as a legislator or even as a minister who pressed for some project? Just like in 60s there was Visakha ukku Andhrula hakku, why not Project-X Karimnagar Hakku?
By the way these legislators are not some small number and it is 40 percent of AP state. They are also chairmans to several committees. Please do not tell me they are corrupt and useless. there are corrupt and useless on the Andhra side too.
from late 80s onwards, even the babus in State Government consists a substantial number from T. why there was never a concerted effort to bring something to their regions in the way they want it?
Kadiam Hari of TDP is once head of water resources stuff and he was even sent abroad to analyze lift irrigation or something related.
when there are abundant avenues to solve issues, why it has to be vent every fault on Andhras and assume everything would have been great if Andhras does not exist?
Ideally, for this kind of attitude, it would have been great to have article 370 for the ex-nizam area (not just T). However, after 60 years of free migration and free trade and business, asking for a de-andhrization of region is impossible other than just a definite lose-lose conflict.
I am not a technical expert on water resources issues. However, I ask this question repeatedly to several persons:
why are the 116 - 5MIM= 111 T legislators could not force anything? why it has to be a complaint that Andhras are this asura or that asura ? T has several layers of elections and they do have village panchayats and also ZPPs. When these folks go for votes what are the people demand? why not forcing stuff as T pressure groups?
KCR was a TDP person too and he has no record as a legislator or even as a minister who pressed for some project? Just like in 60s there was Visakha ukku Andhrula hakku, why not Project-X Karimnagar Hakku?
By the way these legislators are not some small number and it is 40 percent of AP state. They are also chairmans to several committees. Please do not tell me they are corrupt and useless. there are corrupt and useless on the Andhra side too.
from late 80s onwards, even the babus in State Government consists a substantial number from T. why there was never a concerted effort to bring something to their regions in the way they want it?
Kadiam Hari of TDP is once head of water resources stuff and he was even sent abroad to analyze lift irrigation or something related.
when there are abundant avenues to solve issues, why it has to be vent every fault on Andhras and assume everything would have been great if Andhras does not exist?
Ideally, for this kind of attitude, it would have been great to have article 370 for the ex-nizam area (not just T). However, after 60 years of free migration and free trade and business, asking for a de-andhrization of region is impossible other than just a definite lose-lose conflict.
Conspiracy theories cannot be disproved. I'd rather say from what I gather (as a non expert and from public sources) it is very expensive and risky to undertake anti gravity projects in T on large scale. Industrialization is the best option. Cheap unproductive land even with additional cost of water is best suited for Industrial use. The problem is worker productivity. When our polititians inspire rather than obstruct then there will be progress.
Article 370 for the ex-nizam area (not just T) would have resulted in permanant backwardness.
nvishal, that effect is called the "bullwhip" effect. Small perturbations lead to large oscillations which eventually die down due to system over correction.
The problem began when in 2009 YSR realized he was ready for higher things like moving to Center. He said that in an interview about being ready from natioanl level politics and wanted to leave the state for his son.
- He got accidented
- Rosiah made CM without any supporters
- YSJ got distanced from INC leadership
- KCR revived T agitation with fake fast
- Center MHA released the decision to split state on Dec 9th 2009
- Rosiah replaced with Kiran Kuma Reddy
- YSJ started his own party and got elected to LS with large majority
- Mining mafia cases to rein in YSJ's cohort in Karnataka
- CBI raids on YSJ
- Now rumors of YSJ settling for truce
- INC proposes TRS meger
Results in :
- Telugu people unity broken and KCR's atrocities lead to deepening the divide
- Unnecessary suicides, violence and economic growth of state in stasis
- INC rules without fear again
- BJP shown to be non entity in AP which was always known
- TDP still hedging in case INC goes with split
Even if this is all INC game and we end up with another 50 years of INC rule, I think all this Ksheera Sagara Manthan is good thing in that
Self Awareness: People are more aware of their united Telugu entity while knowing more about historical fissures. General public in all areas are now aware of the issues faced by all other regions. This might help in them becoming more sensitive to local aspirations and possibility of supporting each other.
Opportunities: The weaknesses exposed by the aggressive T-movement can be made into opportunities for the next decade. Imagine how strong AP GDP will be if we fix most of these weakpoints by focussed development...
As a side note, my 2 paisa here. The cost to nation:
State having a CM without much support, later replaced.
Unnecessary decision to split coming from Union Home Ministry.
Losing taxes as mining cases resolved only selectively
Blatant selective misuse of CBI
Unnecessary suicides, violence and economic growth of an Indian state AP
^^^
I am increasingly starting to believe that the Telugu elite classes need to be replaced. the present order goes back around 1000 years. 700 years ago this class was instrumental in resisting Islamic incursions and later joining whatever resources/power was left after resistance (against invaders), with Vijayanagara. the transition period between Fall of Vijayanagara and rise of Marathas, most of these elite were reduced to local petty chiefs by Islamic invaders.
Maratha rise didn't reverse this trend. the "saving" of Hyderabad from surrender to Marathas essentially made sure that the political order created by Deccan Sultanates would continue in the Telugu lands. 1762-63 was the last time that serious change could have been made to this order, but due to internal Maratha issues, it didn't happen.
so, Stan ji's recent reminder that AP is still stuck in a neo-zamindari order is a good reminder. basically, the Deccan Sultanate way of controlling the local petty chiefs by letting them control some lands and reduce the population under them to feudal existence still continues to this day.
Naxalism was partly about this issue. lots of Velamas were kicked out of their ancestral holdings into urban cities b/c of the threat to their lives in villages. but the old order has proven remarkably resistant to any change....
Jagan and his ancestors converting is a new trend that could be replicated more. if, in the future, gathering social forces pose a threat to the land-owning elite, then they will be easy targets for EJ's. the EJ ideology gives them a force to buttress their security by "taking care of" their insecurities by projecting the EJ ideology over onto the masses to make them pliant. this model has proven very successful with YSR-YSJ axis.
devesh wrote:
so, Stan's recent reminder that AP is still stuck in a neo-zamindari order is a good reminder.
My observations are subjective and incidental, and based on what I have seen, heard and interpret. So dont make me a party to random shootouts, I will defend the decision on Madras any day , the rest is not my problem. Staying away from such issues will give one fewer reasons for a giant headache.
Kancha Ilaiah (5 October 1952) is an Indian activist and writer. His books include Why I am not a Hindu, God As Political Philosopher: Budha's challenge to Brahminism, A Hollow Shell, The State and Repressive Culture, Manatatwam (in Telugu), and Buffalo Nationalism: A Critique of Spiritual Fascism.
He wrote this article in "Andhra Jyothi" news paper. I do not have access to the original article. This I found in another article written by MBS in GreatAndhra.com
P.S: All translation errors are mine.
In this article "No strikes on education" Mr. Kancha Ilaiah wrote from his personal experiences. This article gives good insight into Telangana situation.
Feudalism is prevalent in Telangana from the beginning. So they didnt encourage education for lower classes (dalits). They didnt encourage universal education as it might result in labor shortages for them.
When AP state formed in 1956 and govt. schools were established in every village, Fuedals discouraged the teachers from running classes and forced them to stay home while taking salaries. Schools used to run in villages where there is no Dora (fuedal). These Doras, however, would send their children to towns for education. (MBS says - Many of telangana leaders who are in their 50s now are educated in hyderabad even though their native places are all over telangana).
Then came 1969 telangana movement. Sri Kancha Ilaiah was in 11th grade then. They lost 1 year of education due to this movement. Out of pity for students teachers were easy on students who were copying and were linient on valuation. Thus the quality of education destroyed in Telangana.
Sri Ilaiah says - "After 1969, it became a common practice for us to copy in exams. It became a norm for teachers to give marks and for students to expect easy evaluation. People use to redicule the students who were sincere. This has continued till 1980s without any introspection.
Between 1980 and 1996, upto Bhuvanagiri Telangana meet, education stabilized without any boycotts. Students who studied in public schools in this period became doctors and engineers. Quite of them settled abroad as well.
At the same time telangana became the center of communist maoist movement.
Starting 1969 Telangana and communist movements targetted education sector. Maoists used to blame people who go to modern education as feudals as they labeled modern education as "Feudalist education". Hundreds of students left education and became maoists.
The new telangana movement that started in 1990s when globalization is in full swing. It became necessary for all classes of society to get modern education as that is the only way to get out of poverty. The new movement has become a huge hindrence to both public and private education. It became common again for students to lose academic years and teachers to give marks as they were sympathetic to the telangana movement (MBS - Starting with Kodandaram, many telangana intellectuals are teachers by profession). All these academcians have short/long term goals and they are abusing the academic institutions to pursue their goals destroying the future of millions of students.
unfortunately true. and the author seems to be in love with Kancha Iliah. can't he pick somebody else who is talking about the same issues?
and the whole thing about "only BC's celebrating batukamma" is blatantly false. in my family, the active and middle aged women have celebrated batukamma with the dances ever since I can remember. in US, recently, a batukamma get together was arranged in NJ, and women from various backgrounds took part.....
the area where I used to live in Hyd, batukamma celebrations took place with gusto. mostly the community women including the barber's wife and the maids everybody took part. Illiah is another EJ plant...
Also the decade of 1969 to 1979 was a period of general ferment in education all over India and the world. The Indian utys were filled with protest movements supported by teachers. A lot of groupism based on : caste, political ideology etc was present. So its not just confined to Telangana. So Illiah is not correct to state it was local CT. News papers those days were full of campus murders and riots. Then there was the Junior Statesman glorifying drugs culture and hippies which was aped in RECW in those days. The choices were politics or hippe culture. Both used to leech on those who studied.
devesh wrote:unfortunately true. and the author seems to be in love with Kancha Iliah. can't he pick somebody else who is talking about the same issues?
That is why I gave Sri Iilaiah's background We know KI's allegiance to EJ propaganda when he went to UN saying Dalits are a different race or something like that...
I was talking about the portion I translated, not the traditional "why I am not a yindooo".
Muppalla wrote:YSR and YSJ has very good following and sympathy even in T. T Reddy community has a lot of sympathy for YSJ.
It is surprising that the Reddy's (in T and Seema) seem to support YSJ (and YSR before) even though the family is not Hindu and has been converted for several decades and have been actively involved in EJ activities during this time.
Why is that? Is it because they have retained the Reddy title or is it because of something more profound like "Once a Reddy always a Reddy"
I doubt even the so called "support". but I have no evidence of either stance. is it true that Reddys all over "sympathize" with YSR/JSJ?
in that case, elite deracination really has sunk deep.
VenkataS wrote:
Why is that? Is it because they have retained the Reddy title or is it because of something more profound like "Once a Reddy always a Reddy"
There is a big difference between varna-system and castes. There are millions of castes where as there are only four varnas.
Castes are more of a lineage. Reddy is a caste. EJism can either be a sub-set or super-set of it. there are many marriages between hindu reddys and christian reddys.
Muppalla wrote:YSR and YSJ has very good following and sympathy even in T. T Reddy community has a lot of sympathy for YSJ.
It is surprising that the Reddy's (in T and Seema) seem to support YSJ (and YSR before) even though the family is not Hindu and has been converted for several decades and have been actively involved in EJ activities during this time.
Why is that? Is it because they have retained the Reddy title or is it because of something more profound like "Once a Reddy always a Reddy"
Read my post on Congress winnable states which I said in jest. One of such state is Reddy Rajyam (In my view it is RS + 4-5 Southern Telangana states). Some push for Rayala Telangana is from Reddies besides MIM. Reddies will lose a lot in clout if Telangana is cut out. There is also inconvenient push in Congress to move away from Reddies to Kapus. If KKR turns out to be a right Reddy they can dump Jagan but so far there is no alternative so they are sticking to Jagan, regardless of his EJ status.
VenkataS wrote:
Why is that? Is it because they have retained the Reddy title or is it because of something more profound like "Once a Reddy always a Reddy"
There is a big difference between varna-system and castes. There are millions of castes where as there are only four varnas.
Castes are more of a lineage. Reddy is a caste. EJism can either be a sub-set or super-set of it. there are many marriages between hindu reddys and christian reddys.
You mean to imply that you can be a Reddy but be of a different religion and it would not matter in terms of caste loyalty and marriages within India.
Do people really care about the varna system in South India. I do not think that is the case right now in AP for example. People I think care more about caste than they care about varnas in AP. Hopefully in the future caste also becomes a thing of the past.
YSR created a quota system inside the mafia for looting where a lot of others had their fair share while Reddys has the lead position. CBN regime has just one caste (kammas) that got the goodies. another important observation is that Kammas have grown from ordinary middle classes to the richest class of AP in less than two decades. This led to ganging up of other castes such as Reddys and Kapus against TDP. YSR and YSJ are the only two tall leaders to take the lead. AP has no leaders other than CBN and YSR.
EJs and their influence on AP politics is an extreme exxaggaration being used in analysis especially on Internet. YSJ and YSR are looked as saviours of several castes and also slow growing Reddys to stop the juggernaut and fast growing Kammas.
When we discuss YSR aura over AP if we keep bringing up EJ stuff,we will never get the real picture of why the man is still popular inspite of the largest loot in the history of the state. I just completed a cross section of the state and really talked to a random sections of people and I see YSR is still popular in all regions. If T sentiment is lessened from it's current state either by separation or by compromise, inspire of TRS, Jagan can still pull off in T region.
In the educated classes of T, Andhras means Kammas and they did not like the fact that this community has grown too fast in front of them though they appreciate the enterprenural skills.
, the rest is not my problem. Staying away from such issues will give one fewer reasons for a giant headache.
We know KI's allegiance to EJ propaganda when he went to UN saying Dalits are a different race or something like that...