Indian Economy: News and Discussion (Apr 1 2011)

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 15 Oct 2011 22:53

Hari Seldon wrote:Not sure what the 'argument' is about really. There no but no doubt that Yindia doesn't hold a candle to any of the OECD, much less the mighty khanate itself, when it comes to living standards/quality of life and what have you? Yindia is boor SDRE third world for a reason.

One side is claiming that things are magically cheap in India. The counter argument is that things are no longer that cheap or are more expensive than the equivalent found in the first world.

I brought up the plumbing example as an illustration of items that are about as or more expensive than the first world equivalent, yet of inferior quality. Obviously lots of opportunites exist if reforms are pushed through, since cost shouldn't be a hurdle at these price levels.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Oct 2011 23:05

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-1 ... drops.html
Reliance Profit Rises 16% on Refining as Gas Output Drops

Oct. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Reliance Industries Ltd., India’s biggest company by market value, posted a 16 percent increase in second-quarter profit as earnings from turning crude oil into fuels offset a drop in natural gas output.Net income in the three months ended Sept. 30 rose to 57.03 billion rupees ($1.16 billion), or 17.40 rupees a share, from a year earlier, the Mumbai-based energy explorer and refiner said in a stock exchange filing today. That matched the median profit estimate of 22 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg and was little changed from the previous quarter.“Refining has helped them this quarter after fuel demand in Asia rose,” said Rina Sanghavi, a Kolkata-based research analyst at SPA Securities Ltd. “But this may not sustain as their margins are stagnating from quarter to quarter.”Reliance, controlled by billionaire Mukesh Ambani, may earn less from every barrel of oil processed at its Jamnagar complex, the world’s largest, as global refining capacity additions exceed growth in fuel demand. The company, which sold stakes in 21 fields to BP Plc for $7.2 billion to gain technology, may take as long as three years to reverse a slump in production from India’s biggest natural gas deposit.

manju · Post by **manju** » 16 Oct 2011 08:16

BTW....went to the Neemrana Fort Hotel today for Lunch (for the southeees...that is an old fort converted to hotel, 140kms from Delhi

I was there in 2007 for our company retreat. That was my first visit to Rajasthan and was very impressed..

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 16 Oct 2011 10:27

vera_k wrote:One side is claiming that things are magically cheap in India. The counter argument is that things are no longer that cheap or are more expensive than the equivalent found in the first world.

Saar/ma'm,

Reasonable common sense says that since labor and life in India are dirt cheap, services here are cheap only. I can get a good haircut done for $1 that'll cost me 15x in massaland. The same holds for a wide pool of privately provided services from domestic help to car mechanics (US mechanic charged my boor grad student pocket a lordly $75/hr x 3h on labor charges for fixing my wreck, I still shudder at the thought) to what have you. Sure govt services are more costly and way less efficient here but slowly slowly, let us hope things will change. The more progressive states are already doing their fair bit there - e-seva centers in AP and the public services guarantee acts in Bihar and MP are welcome steps in the right direction, IMHO.

As fo goods, sure goods cost about the same coz the materials going into it (commodities prices aren't exactly low) do acoount for a fair bit of the price and our repressive taxation, for the rest. Things aren't exactly bright but a good number of mango people (some 100s of millions) have made it out of destitution into the merely poor bracket and quite a few (some 10s of millions) have climbed out of the lower classes into the lower middle and middle-middle bracket. Sure, it ain't all milk and honey like massaland but it's the only country I have and I ain;t go all di$$ing and pi$$ing on it to prove some vague point.

I brought up the plumbing example as an illustration of items that are about as or more expensive than the first world equivalent, yet of inferior quality. Obviously lots of opportunites exist if reforms are pushed through, since cost shouldn't be a hurdle at these price levels.

Thanks for the bolded part. Did seem like you are genuinely interested in the upside and not just gutter inspections. Sure, yes, hopefully things will improve and all but will have to wait and see. Progress isn't inevitable from our already pathetic current base, even for us.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Oct 2011 11:22

Coal output likely to be far below target

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Oct 2011 11:45

This could be the mother of all scams in India

Indians seem to have taken a fancy to scams the same way that Somalians have to piracy. Almost every other breaking news on TV channels talks about some money making racket or the other. The latest scam to be unearthed may however be bigger than all the previous scams put together. And its ramifications may be even more lethal.

Under the double-tax treaty signed with the Swiss government, the Swiss will now have to provide details to the Indian government on transactions involving Indians. It's thus no big surprise that black money is quickly exiting the Swiss Alps. But then where are these illegal piles of cash going? Well, it may be coming right back to India and sitting peacefully in our own backyard. And the amount involved could be as hefty as US$ 40-45 bn. But, this is just the figure for one year, 2010-11. The actual amount of black money entering the country could be a lot more.

Do you ever look at the latest export numbers, FII data, etc. and believe that these numbers are works of fiction or a figment of someone's imagination? Well, the latest black money scam may be just that. According to three analysts from Kotak Securites, who have been studying various data points, the numbers just don't add up. Here are a couple of examples:

Official export data shows a 79% year-on-year (YoY) growth in engineering exports in 2010-11. However, exports by engineering companies in the BSE 500 index show just a 11% growth. In dollars terms, the difference is even starker. There appears to be a US$ 28 bn shortfall in exports. Now, the probability that this amount has come in through over-invoicing or fictitious exports is higher than that it came from tiny engineering companies which are not part of the BSE 500 index.

Copper exports have also quadrupled from Rs 85 bn to Rs 367 bn. But, how is this possible in India, a country which does not as a practice export this mineral. China apparently bought the whole lot. So is the dragon nation also part of this public hoodwinking?

Also, in 2010-11 foreign investor flows added up to US$ 22 bn, according to official data. The Kotak analysts did a cross-check with international sources like exchange-traded funds and EPFR Global. Their analysis shows that not more than US$ 4.5 bn came in to India. So, where did the other US$ 17.5 come from?

Well, India really needs to clean up its act. Else even the legitimate flows of capital into the country may dry up. Greater disclosures, a strong clampdown on corruption and a complete shakedown of government frauds need to take place. Anna Hazare's movement and his 12-day fast should not go in vain. And neither should India's reputation as an investment destination.

By Equitymaster – India's leading 'independent' equity research initiative. Trusted by over a million members all over the world, Equitymaster is known for its well-researched, unbiased and honest opinions on the Indian stock markets.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 16 Oct 2011 17:49

Indians seem to have taken a fancy to scams the same way that Somalians have to piracy.

Cheap == done by the DDM...Especially when we are not even sure if its even a scam... The media or anyone is within rights to demand an audit...But to begin pounding such a sensationalist article is bad..If can have very negative implications for foreign investments and perception of India...

Even though black can be a possible explanation for export growth there are several alternative explanations..Engineering companies were expected to do well due to tsunami in Japan..

If I wanted to bring black money into India , I would have either used hawala or taken advantage of the double taxation treaty with mauritius like most self respecting black money launderers do ... It is virtually off records...While export income is taxable... Only advantage that over-invoicing has is that the black money becomes "white"..

@ vera_k -- I merely said that cost of living is cheaper in India and I explained my logic as well as some others did.. Amongst the manufactured goods clothes and furniture are a lot cheaper in India and I stand by that... India is an exporter of textile as well as furniture...so it is expected to be cheaper locally..besides tailors and carpentors in India charge a lot less in comparison to American one's ...
I had the horrible experience of losing my formal clothes a few days before residency interview.. Since I was going to some top places I was advised to wear a decent suit.. (Formal attire is compulsory in khanate docs)... I had carried decent tailored one's from India which I lost... The cheapest american suits looked horrible ... I had to buy 500 dollar one's ... The bill was easily equal to my life time supply of clothes previously...

Try comparing life of a american taxi driver (or even entry level engineers, resident docs, fellowship students ,oceanographers) making 50k a year with 2 kids with an Indian making 25 lak a year.. you ll know what I mean..

You need to pay a $ 1000 atleast rent in NY to get a barely liveable studio apt... water pressure of 60 psi hardly matters ...and winters are tough...electricity bill's during winters are hardly low...full coverage health insurance costs 5k-10k a year.. And public schools are not free by any means... fees range from 2k-4k...its only after all thse expenses and taxes does one get to spend on i-pad or 60 inch screens..
question of enjoying new york in all its splendidness comes only if someone makes 200k or more.. by comparison an Indian making 25-40 lakh has a far better time...

I did not say that average indian is better off than an average american.. the average american makes 10 time more at present...but things in India are improving... Unless UPA makes a terrible mess (sadly thats what it seems to be doing) convergence may take place a lot sooner than expected..As Suraj pointed out India exceeded even the most optimistic expectations on the 2000 BRIC report...

I agree with your comment on quality plumbers . HVAC technicinans welders , plumbers etc of a great quality are very hard to find in India.. The NREGA workers should ideally have been trained to do these jobs..but our idiotic gov't thinks otherwise...

@ Advait public schools in US are not completely free as you might have expected..they cost as much or more than Indian private schools... even though they are infinitesimally better than Indian public schools (THOUGH NOT INDIAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS).. raising kids in US is not cheap by any stretch of imagination...

Drop out rates are high..In NY they are as high as 40%..ie only 60-65% finish high school...

http://mikebloomberg.com/index.cfm?obje ... 491507142E

As you notice , in Bloombergs own site he states that grad rates of 65% are all time high... (though how the high was achieved is omitted ) ..

I am not a fan of the Indian education system ..It sucks to say the least ... My school has taken exchange visitors and me myself had gone on a student exchange during my child hood got to observe and interact with foreign students .. IMHO the high school system in singapore was the best I know off.. From what I have read , finland has a supreme system ... The difference between these systems and the Indian system is that of heaven and hell..(hell being the Indian system..) However things are improving rapidly for the wealthiest 30% Indians...

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 16 Oct 2011 20:07

well how exactly did people moved black money to swiss? did they convert to Swiss or deposited physical INR notes? Wouldn't this put your money under xchange rate and inflation risks ?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 16 Oct 2011 22:08

Hari Seldon wrote:Reasonable common sense says that since labor and life in India are dirt cheap, services here are cheap only. I can get a good haircut done for $1 that'll cost me 15x in massaland.

Larger point is that increasingly, services are cheap, and therefore wages are low because many areas of the economy are not as competitive as in the first world. Productivity, and therefore wages would rise as these issues are fixed. I chose the plumbing example, because it illustrates an uncompetitive niche in a sector where price levels are close to or exceed the first world.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 17 Oct 2011 06:17

as long as we keep financing & banking crooks out of the equation, all will be well in India.

if this "industry" grows larger and larger, its a bad sign.

it means the productive energies of society are being siphoned off to paper shufflers.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 17 Oct 2011 06:33

^^^Which is why the radical, nay revolutionary, idea that banking be treated as a utility and banks be regulated as utilities are. With a given fixed rate of return guaranteed and never exceeded. Which is what the PSB system in the country effectively manages to achieve. SBI's chairman makes a pittance compared to what he would have in Amreeka given his Assets under mgmt. As long as the PSB system continues to remain a dominant force in India (even if it enjoys some sort of implicit govt bailout guarantee), the risks of wild west banking in India are diminished.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 17 Oct 2011 07:07

This is where you have to give credit to Indira Gandhi for nationalizing banks. She was able to forsee the game private banks could play in the long run. Had those big banks not been nationalized, they would have been completely in bed with Goldman Sucks types and would have done everything we see in the wild west, in the name of productivity and growth.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 17 Oct 2011 08:48

^^^
+1. agree with the above. this aspect of IG will ultimately be judged positively by History.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 17 Oct 2011 09:44

^^^^
Are you kidding me.

Indian banks suck. Big time. Single largest reason for the poverty you see around you every day.
SBI in particular is twisted and corrupted to the core. Anyone remember Harshad Mehta, or Hiten Dalal, or Indian Bank or the LIC scandal, etc...etc...etc..

They can not judge risk to reward well enough to fund a water plant in Rajasthan even. Ever tried getting a loan from one.

And IG the less said the better. What she did by nationalization was to rerout the entire savings of banks straight to the government. This allows the banks to pay back in printed paper which fuels our crippling inflation. All the wealth of ordinary Indians has been evaporated away in this process. As a proportion of our economy IG caused the destruction of more wealth than a dozen PIGS combined.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 17 Oct 2011 10:05

Corruption in the government and poverty is one thing, blood sucking that is going on in Europe is another thing. When governments decide to bail out private banks, either you nationalize them to save the financial system or let them go bust, while cutting everything else it is supposed to do to the public (check Greece and Ireland) is something nobody wants in any country.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 17 Oct 2011 10:45

We can thank IG for the manufacturing-killing labor laws we have today too. She was/is more responsible for the poverty and the misery that goes with it than even her father. That says a lot.When man made laws violate the laws of economics, the man made laws always lose. This simple truth is beyond the comprehension, even today, of most of India's arrogant and economically illiterate politicians.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 17 Oct 2011 12:12

Theo_Fidel wrote:And IG the less said the better. What she did by nationalization was to rerout the entire savings of banks straight to the government. This allows the banks to pay back in printed paper which fuels our crippling inflation. All the wealth of ordinary Indians has been evaporated away in this process. As a proportion of our economy IG caused the destruction of more wealth than a dozen PIGS combined.

And who advised her to do this - British educated commies.

Just like a certain other Mrs gandhi and her ill advised employment gaurantee scheme, which has fuelled the current round of inflation.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 17 Oct 2011 12:58

Interview with YVReddy on a variety of issues

The video has seven parts to it.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 17 Oct 2011 13:32

Nationalizing banks was a good idea ?? Thankfully nobody who actually lives in India holds such outdated views any more.

If the goal is to prevent banking crises, focus on the regulator (RBI) rather than on state vs. non-state ownership of banks.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 17 Oct 2011 15:28

FWIW, I might as well clarify that I'm nowhere saying bank nationalization was a good thing.

My limited point was that the PSB system as it stands today effectively approximates a hoped-for/desirable era where banks are regulated like utility companies currently are, where bankers don't award themselves ridiculous paypackets or empire-build with 40x leveraged funds thereby endagering the entire system as it were. That's all and no more only.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 17 Oct 2011 22:20

Malnutrition in India is not due to food availability but superstitions and social practices.
For example

"Eat Fish in Winter only"
"Eat dry fruits in Winter only"
"Do not eat meat during Navratrais"

and so forth!!!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 17 Oct 2011 22:28

^

what next, indian superstitions are the root cause of world economic downturn?

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 17 Oct 2011 22:29

Malnutrition exists among the people who are not strict about their diets.
How does eating only veg for nine days a year cause malnutrition? There are people who ate vegetarian for generations and are not malnutritious.

Some times arguments go too silly.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 17 Oct 2011 22:32

Hari Seldon wrote: where bankers don't award themselves ridiculous paypackets or empire-build with 40x leveraged funds

These things are a function of the Reagan miracle of complete deregulation. No one is watching the cookie jar. Bankers used to be very respected and morally upright folks. It was deregulation that got rid of the deeply conservative and careful types and parachuted in the 'got to make the quarterly numbers', crowd. The system despite its flaws is the best the world has. It is the monitoring and regulation that failed.

Number one problem is the lack of daylight. Every dime and penny of a banks finances were a matter of public record till Reagan came along. Now no one even knows how GS makes its money, leave alone what it pays its executives and why.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Oct 2011 22:42

Not sure where this goes:

From narendramodi.in/ (news blog)
Chief Minister inaugurates Asia’s biggest solar power plant in Kankrej

Mr. Modi said the world’s largest solar park combining the vast stretches of land with ample supply of sunrays is also coming up in the region. The initiative should go a long way in solving the coal shortage.
...
With proper conservation and management of water and electricity, he said, Jyoti Gram Yojna has changed the socio-economic conditions of Gujarat

Not sure if this is reported in media at all.

link

member_19686 · Post by **member_19686** » 18 Oct 2011 01:57

SBajwa wrote:Malnutrition in India is not due to food availability but superstitions and social practices.
For example

"Eat Fish in Winter only"
"Eat dry fruits in Winter only"
"Do not eat meat during Navratrais"

and so forth!!!

No one becomes malnourished because they abstained from meat for 9 days or their entire life for that matter (unless you lived in pre modern Siberia or something).

Most malla-s in India who are not Muslim are lacto-vegetarian including medal winner Sushil Kumar. Fresh milk and almonds make up a big part of their diet.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 18 Oct 2011 07:22

^^^^^
WRT the discussion on diet SB does have a point. Though it is not the only problem. All the criticism is from a healthy male centric point of view. First choice on food.

For a...

- pregnant female,
- or a menstruating female
- or a quicker maturing female
- or a recovering from labor female
- or a young child
- or a recovering from illness child
- or last choice for food female child

...these superstitious have often been the difference between life and death. Nothing beats a balanced, fully varied (read including meat) diet for the long term health and potential maximization of society. The strong may be able to survive on deprived diets but there will always be those of weak constitution who need more generous diets. We are evolved to be omnivores and should keep our heritage in mind.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Oct 2011 11:53

It is not superstitoious
The last 100 years of food deficiency due to governance has created social changes
This needs to be turned back

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 18 Oct 2011 12:37

Prem wrote:
gakakkad wrote:^^ sun is communal onlee...
To be secular and strike balance , we need a large Moonies Plant.

The whole idea of overall more wealth and vibrant society in modern times with technology and planning, while a heathen is at the top driving growth, will open up pandora's box for 'seculars' who will never understand this as probable at all.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Oct 2011 13:50

ibnlive had a small snippet from PTI. rest of sikular media are under orders not to highlight anything good in gujarat. the sun itself is a hindu god and hence not sikular enough.

MBCEL commissions 30 MW solar farm in Gujarat
PTI | 07:10 PM,Oct 12,2011

Ahmedabad, Oct 12 (PTI) The 30MW solar farm developed by Moser Baer Clean Energy Limited (MBCEL) in Banaskantha district of Gujarat has been commissioned in Kankrej block, company officials said today. The solar farm which has been set up using 2,36,000 Thin Film modules with an approximate investment of Rs 465 crore in Gunthawad village of Kankrej block in Banaskantha, will be formally inaugurated by Chief Minister Narendra Modi on October 14. According to MBCEL officials the project was awarded under phase 1 of Gujarat Solar Power policy 2009 and is likely to be the first major project to be commissioned under the Gujarat Solar Mission. "We could not have completed this project in a record time without support and guidance of the state government," Chairman of Moser Baer Projects (MBPPL), the parent company of MBCEL, Ratul Puri told reporters here. Chief Minister Narendra Modi will be formally inaugurating the 30MW solar farm developed by us on October 14, he said, adding that the farm has already been commissioned yesterday. Talking about future plans of the company Puri said, "As solar power is clean, the company is working towards commissioning of 300 MWs of solar projects in the next 12 months in India, Germany, Italy and UK." "We shall have 100 MW operational capacity by the end of October 2011 and plan to install more than 5 GWs by 2020," he added. (more) PTI PB PD DK

Raja · Post by **Raja** » 18 Oct 2011 15:08

ibnlive had a small snippet from PTI. rest of sikular media are under orders not to highlight anything good in gujarat. the sun itself is a hindu god and hence not sikular enough.

Some other links...

The Hindu
Hindustan Times
DNA

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 18 Oct 2011 17:08

Any way superstition and social beliefs are the most important cause of under-nutrition in India..

Theo is write w.r.t women...They are the biggest targets..especially pregnant female..

COMMON SUPERSTITION are--avoiding papaya or spinach to pregnant females.. papaya is a source of vitamin a and spinach a source of iron...people believ that these induce abortion..but that is not true...

weaning a baby of breast milk early... 6 months of exclusive breast feeding is compulsory... Complimentary foods should be introduced there after along with breast feeding..but some breast feeding should be continued till the age of 1 or 2..Now in the semi-educated lower middle class families the high pressure advertising of branded baby foods caused them to buy it...but they found it expensive ..so what they did is dilute it with more water leaving the baby hungry...while the powder it self is unnecessary..they can easily prepare the same by powdering wheat and rice...
Baby food ads have been restricted in India... they have to write it clearly in the box that this is not a substitute for breast milk and that essential breast-feeding till 6 months is necessary...

the women in India often eat the meals last-ie leftovers..so obviously they are malnourished...

No wonder India will be the diabetes capital in the world..Because if you are an under weight as a baby the risk of you being diabetic in middle age increases considerably....

Lack of availability of food is now the 2nd important cause--though the social factors these days are more important than these...

The problem with gov't malnutrition surveys is that they are done only in remote locations.. questionnaires sometimes were direct translation of the ones used in the western ones...

No comprehensive survey has been done in urban area or the better off rural areas... RESULTS OF Surveys in tribal area are often extrapolated for the whole country..this is dangerous...not only does it over-estimate prevalence..it also mask the trends in urban area's and rural areas where food is plenty...obesity too will be an important problem in India..

Sadly the standard of health stats in India is pretty low..the government planners have absolutely no Idea of public health...~~sab bhagwan bharose....~~ sorry that was communal onlee..

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 18 Oct 2011 18:15

Guys,

Cut out your attacks on Secular ideals please. Despite what you may think Gujarat is no paradise. It is not even tops amongst the vast majority of the performance/social indicators. Among some indicators it actually does far worse than the Southern states. It is just another fast growing Indian state. NaMo is a good administrator not the second coming of God Krishna.

All of us have a Loooong way to go while guys act like Gujarat has already arrived. Without India Gujarat is nothing. This is true of all the states.

----------------------------------------------

No comprehensive survey has been done in urban area or the better off rural areas... RESULTS OF Surveys in tribal area are often extrapolated for the whole country..this is dangerous...not only does it over-estimate prevalence..it also mask the trends in urban area's and rural areas where food is plenty...obesity too will be an important problem in India..

G saab,

This is part of the govt. focusing so much on these dark areas and ignoring Urban areas. Urban population will be majority India soon and yet our cities are run down and ignored. Esp. Tier 2 & 3 cities. I was reading a report 2 years ago where the projected population of Greater Chennai is going to be 25 Million+ from the present 12 million or so by 2035. About 40% of the state of TN will live in one city!

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Oct 2011 19:02

Despite what you may think Gujarat is no paradise. It is not even tops amongst the vast majority of the performance/social indicators. Among some indicators it actually does far worse than the Southern states. It is just another fast growing Indian state. NaMo is a good administrator not the second coming of God Krishna.

Extremely true only. Sometimes I do wish the rest of India were just as mismanaged/misruled/mis-whatever as Gujarat has been for a decent window - say 1-2 decades. Too much to ask for I know but still... Given India's institutional and pluralistic constraints, which are mirrored in Guj as well, what Guj has done within constitutional and democratic constraints is nothing short of impressive and that, like it or not, is a fairly legit POV.

And yes, lofty talk of 'secular ideals' seems lofty indeed when serious references are made to 'second comings' of 'God Krishna' or something in the same breath only, with a straight face and w/o batting an eyelid. All par for the course, of course, in due course. Anyway, this ain;t the thread for such trivia. Let the econ gyan flow. Only.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 18 Oct 2011 19:27

Theo_Fidel wrote:Guys,
All of us have a Loooong way to go while guys act like Gujarat has already arrived. Without India Gujarat is nothing. This is true of all the states.

So let know what exactly is meant by has not arrived. Until a white guys says so is not correct way I suggest, & opposition/pseudos will never say so.

"Without India Gujarat is nothing. This is true of all the states."
There is no without India so there is no Gujarat is meaningless. Indeed, India has different states. The way few states have progressed, it should be encouraging for other states to follow with Center playing enabler/manager/protector etc. & not just credit-collector for Nehrus. Is there any other way to 'arrive'?

Another news from Gujarat:
Fast-track courts to clear backlog of 2.92 crore cases

The mission’s objective is to increase access to justice by reducing delays and arrears and enhanced accountability through structural changes and by setting performance standards.

Read somewhere that in next 2-to-5 years, there will be no backlog of cases in Gujarat courts. So people don't have to goto middleman/mafia/politicos every time and can approach courts positively. This is a huge difference in mindset.

To say that 'has not arrived', one must clarify what is meant by 'has arrived'. I am sure 'has not arrived' is correct as of now, but there has to be some clear goals moving ahead. Also it is of value looking at secular states like J&K, Nagaland, since these states can't just say that practices of NaMo Govt. can not be followed, though it is about goals too.

If BJP Govt can take political credit for its work under leadership of NaMo, what is politically wrong? Haven't we seen Nehru family take credit for everything positive in India? While mid-day meal scheme was first successfully run in states like Tamil Nadu, it is the Congress who took credit for it. The same could happen to renewable energy sources. Everything will be credited to pseudo secular people. Remember how Rajiv is credited with 'bringing computers to India'!

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 18 Oct 2011 19:31

as far as urban regions are concerned ..what will most probably happen is that the urban area's will exclusively depend upon private sector for health care...

The worst part is that there is no decent pool of data is available in India. ..In the US the death certificates are very properly made..the cause of death and other stats can be easily obtained for a large population... I had taken a clinical elective at NIH bethesda maryland ...its a goldmine of information...i mean 90% of research can start from the data they have..if i need stats of causes of death in the year 86 they have it...no such info is ever available in India..

electronic health record would be the first thing that is needed in India...not only can it create jobs for it-vity munna's ..it can have a huge spin-offs..employing vast number of people as data entry operators...

A lesson from the US would be to ensure strong competition and prevent monopoly..In the US companies have a monopoly in a particular AREA..that has led to cost escalation..in India that can be easily avoided..

in the PHC I was an interning in the gov't had no Idea of population drainage.. they sent 4 times the number of vaccine's needed..the MO who rarely visits did not care to return them...so the surplus vaccines remained in the fridge till they expired..In places where there is electricity problem I imagine that huge number of vaccines will be destroyed ...

These are the real health problems which can hamper economic growth...nac or the congress does not have a clue ...

HEALTH STAS GUJARAT..

As far as health stats of gujarat are concerned the reality may be a lot better than indicated by the surveys..in my mbbs days I took part in a few of them...health surveys in India is mainly reverse-shanghai stat's...In guj data is mainly collected from dangs , chhota udepur and some poor regions of saurashtra..

In gujarat there is already 45% urbanisation which is underestimated..most of anand and nadiad are still counted as rural area...

..these are bustling towns in the making... the "villages" in charotar are filled with mercs..there will soon be flyovers and sky scrapers in these "villages"..and no health surveyor ever goes there...

No data is collected from the private maternity homes where more then half of the deliveries in Guj takes place... so obviously data will be a lot better in reality...

Remember how Rajiv is credited with 'bringing computers to India'!

what is Real story ? To be honest when I was a munna , my class 3 computer teacher taught us about rajiv gandhi...since i was a munna i did not know about psy-ops...i merely imprinted it in my brain that he did it...I mean infosys was around even b4 his time...(late 70s right? )

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Oct 2011 19:37

vishvak wrote: The same could happen to renewable energy sources. Everything will be credited to pseudo secular people. Remember how Rajiv is credited with 'bringing computers to India'!

Are these not correct??
JNNSM ia launched by UPA and RG indeed brought Computerisation in this country.

I would be happy to be corrected and be enlightened .

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Oct 2011 19:49

gakakkad wrote:

what is Real story ? To be honest when I was a munna , my class 3 computer teacher taught us about rajiv gandhi...since i was a munna i did not know about psy-ops...i merely imprinted it in my brain that he did it...I mean infosys was around even b4 his time...(late 70s right? )

Infy was in 1981.

TCS 1963

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 18 Oct 2011 19:57

chaanakya wrote:
vishvak wrote: The same could happen to renewable energy sources. Everything will be credited to pseudo secular people. Remember how Rajiv is credited with 'bringing computers to India'!
Are these not correct??
JNNSM ia launched by UPA and RG indeed brought Computerisation in this country.

I would be happy to be corrected and be enlightened .

If I am not mistaken, what is exactly taking credit about 'introducing computers in India', other than letting people buy it as needed and not come in their way.

If correcting a barbaric British policy is all it takes to take credit, then I would say it is not correct. Getting a machine 'introduced in India' is in fact rather a pointer to barbaric pre independence mentality and then red tape policies later. How is it anything more?

As also, what has Nehru in JNNSM got to do with renewable energy generation? That way, calling the same NaMoNSM would make more sense.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Oct 2011 20:18

^^ It doesn't answer the point.