27 year old flt lt abhijit gadgil (service number 24212-G and my kid brother), is on ORP (operations readiness platform) duty, called back from his house for an emergency. he has just finished an extended duty of 12 hours but hearing that flying might be on offer that night, he rushes to the squadron....
this was taken at KKD in 2010 during Indradhanush III. It should answer your question (about FLs in Service or not). I notice some guy on the BR forum saying they have finished. Well I am pretty sure he is wrong and OCU is still going.
Jagan wrote:Having noted the above, I would stick my neck out and say that the IAF would not retire the FL without undertaking a proper retirement ceremony like they did with all the other recent types (Iskra's, MiG-25s, MiG-23MFs and MiG-23BNs)...
From what my information is, the last fighter squadron (8) gave up its birds in 2005-6. There was a ceremony in that squadron at Tezpur or Bagdogra. The squadon reformed to Su30MKI in 2007 at Bareilly and may move to Chabua or Tezpur once those airfields are modernized under the airfield modernization project. Regarding MOFTU, I was under the impression that its role was gradually being taken over by the Hawks at Bidar. There are approx 30-40 Hawks in commission.nachiket wrote:tsarkar ji, I was also under the impression that MOFTU is still equipped with the FL. Have you heard anything about MOFTU being re-equipped with the M/MF or Bis type?
From the above it looks like,that Flt Lt Pandey,while attempting to turn....rolled over and was unable to recover...seems to be an error of judgement......more experienced pilots re 2 test pilots in this case while practicing for a demo in a Kiran many years ago,died in a fatal crash in Bangalore....sadly the 70's in B'lore did see a few TP's loose their lives in the line of dutysanjeevpunj wrote:Finally the press catches up and starts pointing at lack of trainers.Is that so?Source:http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_la ... ts_1572745Lack of trainers takes toll on young pilots.Published: Friday, Aug 5, 2011, 8:30 IST
A Jaguar fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF) crashed on Thursday in UP’s Gorakhpur, killing the pilot, Flight Lieutenant S Pandey, and a farmer.
Pandey was on a training sortie when the aircraft spun out of control and crashed killing a farmer on the ground and then sunk into a nearby pond.
This was the second major accident for the IAF in a week. Flight Lieutenant MS Pillai died in a training sortie while flying a MiG 21 in Nal, Bikaner, on Tuesday.
Sources in the IAF headquarters told DNA that evidence available in both accidents pointed to a case of pilot error.
“It is too early for us to draw any conclusions but in both cases, these were young pilots with about 40 hours of flying behind them,” a senior air force official said.
According to him, the Jaguar pilot was flying at a low level and had completed a series of maneuvers when he suddenly did a hard turn and the aircraft spun out of control.
“We are still trying to locate the FDR (data recorder) of the aircraft, which will have all the details, but we are guessing that the pilot lost control.”
The MiG-21 crash also occurred in similar circumstances when the pilot was on a low-level flight and suddenly lost control and crashed into the ground.
The initial investigations have revealed that there was no defect in the upgraded MiG-21 “Bison” thus narrowing down the cause of the accident to “pilot error”.
Both crashes come within days of the induction of the new chief of air staff, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne who is a Jaguar pilot.
Sources close to Browne told DNA that the air chief was extremely disturbed and was looking at training schedules of the rookie pilots to prevent such accidents.
Very strongly rumored to be a case of suicide.Kiki wrote:
From the above it looks like,that Flt Lt Pandey,while attempting to turn....rolled over and was unable to recover...seems to be an error of judgement......more experienced pilots re 2 test pilots in this case while practicing for a demo in a Kiran many years ago,died in a fatal crash in Bangalore....sadly the 70's in B'lore did see a few TP's loose their lives in the line of duty
Absolute rubbish,that wasnt the case .....based on the eye witness account of the other TP's on the ground watching the practice,the findings of the court pointed towards an error of judgement on part of the pilot in command....sometimes even the best make mistakeschetak wrote:Very strongly rumored to be a case of suicide.Kiki wrote:
From the above it looks like,that Flt Lt Pandey,while attempting to turn....rolled over and was unable to recover...seems to be an error of judgement......more experienced pilots re 2 test pilots in this case while practicing for a demo in a Kiran many years ago,died in a fatal crash in Bangalore....sadly the 70's in B'lore did see a few TP's loose their lives in the line of duty
....and if pointed,then they cant handle it 
.Agree with you.... completely... appetite to handle uncomfortable facts is a rare commodity in BRF of late... we all need to calm down and bring a degree of civility...Kiki wrote:^^^
I was refering to the crash that happened,in 1980 in B'lore in which 2 HAL test pilots lost their lives.....that is a first hand account---I knew both of them.
About the speculative stories bit on BRF.....agree,glad you raised this pont..... their are a lot of folks here who are either on steroids or smoking some really serious stuff....cause they really dont know WTF they are talking about
Cheers
Shiv,shiv wrote:Deepak Yadav was a family friend - he was a test piiot who went down in Kiran in the 1980s. If you are talking about him I would like to talk to you.
No one wants accidents but after they occur there is a specific sequence of events that must take place before anyone can say what might have happened. Forensic medicine is all about figuring out an identity, time and cause of death from the remains of a corpse that may have been rotting for 6 months. Not much left to go by. Air crash investigation is similar. You have a million pieces and maybe some flight data recorded, and some eyewitness accounts. There may be a "history" of the aircraft in question like the "dental records" of a dead person.
Ultimately it can very difficult to pinpoint an exact cause. Speculation is easier. But on a forum of enthusiasts you are asking for a flamewar if you accuse others of being on streoids or smoking something. Best to drop the issue.
Absolutely. But it is always difficult on a forum like this. The common causes attributed to accidents on this forum are "shot down by Chinese" and "sabotage". Aside from these aircraft are not supposed to have accidents. It is after all a forum of enthusiasts who are not necessarily clued in. Many "enthusiasts" come to defence fora out of anxiety that all is not well and seek to clear their anxieties (acquired from Pakistani fora or other media) on this forum. So some leeway is required.About the speculative bit....there should'nt be any room for that on a board such as this...esp when we are discussing serious issues about op's/trg etc wrt the armed forces.
this is now becoming an ejection preparedness testchackojoseph wrote:MiG-21 fighter aircraft crashes in Rajasthan
It is depressing. Thank god the pilot survived. Difficult to say anything without knowing the cause of the accident. Whatever was the cause, it is a reminder of the importance of training, maintenance, inspections, environmental controls, safety culture, etc. and indeed timely replacement of the now v old MiG-21 fleet.prithvi wrote:Is this becoming so depressing that no one bothers discussing it anymore?
Read the whole article folks especially the details of the second accident. It makes terrible reading but this is day to day forensic medical work.It has been postulated that pilot error or in-flight incapacitation may be the main contributory factors to 70–80% of aircraft accidents. Two fatal aircraft accidents are presented in which either of the above possibilities may have played a role. The first case report describes an erroneous decision by a fighter pilot to use a seat position adjustment of the ejection seat leading to fatal injuries when he had to eject from his aircraft. Injuries to the body of the pilot, and observations on the state of his flying clothing and the ejection seat were used to postulate the mechanism of fatal injury and establish the cause of the accident. The second case report describes the sequence of events which culminated in the incapacitation of a fighter pilot while executing a routine manouevre. This resulted in a fatal air crash. Possible contributions of environmental factors which may have resulted in failure of his physiological mechanisms are discussed.
Thanks. But people will understand only if they bother reading it. I am not sure how many people actually bother opening links and reading such papersrohitvats wrote:^^^Shiv, thanks for the article. It will help people understand
SHIMLA: An Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG 29 crashed in Himachal Pradesh's Lahaul Valley, police said on Wednesday, adding that rescue workers had begun to search for survivors in the treacherous mountain terrain.
There is no official confirmation about the number of people on board the aircraft that crashed on Tuesday night.
"A communication was received from the IAF at around 8.30 pm on Tuesday that a MiG 29 has crashed," Superintendent of Police Bimal Gupta said over phone.
"A team of rescue workers has reached Chokhan village from where they have started trudging up the mountains to reach the accident spot," he said.
"We are awaiting the arrival of the IAF teams. The accident spot is quite treacherous and inaccessible. IAF choppers are likely to be deployed to reach the spot," the officer added.
Chokhan village on the Keylong-Udaipur highway is about 40 km from the district headquarters of Keylong and 450 km from here.
"We have no information about the number of people on board the aircraft," deputy commissioner Rajeev Shankar said.
saje wrote: We have too few aircraft and too few pilots and with successive crashes it is becoming clear that we simply cannot leave the fate of an aircraft and pilot in the hands of the pilot alone be it a Flying Officer or a Wing Commander. 'Two heads are better than one' is the way forward for this crash-ridden, fast depleting airforce!
How come you think the Air Force is incapable of coming up with your bright ideas and pilots are being sent upto die? Boss I think you may have your heart in the right place, but that is not a good enough excuse for ignorance leading to whining. This is complete nonsense sir. I think you are winding me up personally by displaying lots of fancy ideas and no knowledge of what fighters are doing and how a ground operator could save an aircraft if it was heading for the ground at 1000 kmph with the pilot disorientated?with the added feature of allowing a ground operator to take full control of the aircraft if the pilot is incapacitated/disoriented, in order to bring the aircraft safely back
Pah! You are copy pasting what you are reading about civilian flights into combat jets.Of course, such a system will be resisted by the pilot since it sort of 'babysits' the pilot throughout the flight but the situation is such that it has become a necessity.
vasu_ray wrote:the RLG is being used by Tejas giving it a good frame of reference, now one hopes that this along with the Digital Elevation Model maps generated from images taken by the Cartosats of the Himalayas should allow for a safe instrument only flying in the night time in the North and North-east
vasu_ray wrote:another type of navigation aid such as using Synthetic Aperture Radar pods integrated with the pilot's HUD allowing for all weather and night flying should also be added
Aircraft like 80's vintage MiG-29 carry a lot of navigation avionics like -saje wrote:In the light of these accidents it becomes necessary to have some kind of a system to track, support and guide an aircraft from the time it leaves it's home base till it comes back.
Beacons are there, but deep valleys in steep mountains prevent beacon signals from travelling outside the valley. Also, they are battery powered and inevitably lose power with time.shivagarg wrote:Then why do not we have some kind of beacon system on Ejection seat which can help trace the pilot and may save his life.
The search operation is now focused on the high passes between the Kugti wildlife sanctuary and the Chobia Pass, located at an altitude of 5,000 m above sea level.
"The entire mountain range in the interiors of Lahaul and Spiti is treacherous, and it's really difficult to trace the wreckage as the hills are quite steep and gorges are narrow," Shankar said.
An IAF AN-12 aircraft with 102 defence personnel on board, including six crew members, crashed on the 17,400-feet-high Dakka glacier in the Chandrebhaga ranges in Lahaul and Spiti Feb 7, 1968. Only four bodies were recovered
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[url=http://i51.tinypic.com/34i2qt3.jpg]Pic 4[/url]http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 436080.cmsJagdish Sharma, pradhan of Thirot panchayat who along with four other villagers had climbed the mountain to locate the remains of the plane, said they have found the tyre and other parts of the aircraft around 500 metre below the Chokhang peak.
"We have found a tyre, a bearing-type equipment and two yellow and blue small boxes. Other parts of the plane are lying around 500 metre above the place, where we found these things," claimed Sharma.
Sharma and his team have carried other parts with them while they left the tyre at the spot as it was too heavy to carry and weather too turned hostile. "It was snowing and visibility was turning poor so we had to return to Thirot," said Sharma.
Others villagers who managed to reach near the accident site include Subhash, Sudershan, Rajinder of Jholing village and Avinash of Sendhwari village. They had started around 7am from Thirot village and reached near the spot of mishap around 3pm.
Sharma said that one spot near the peak had turned black as it seemed that the plane had crashed at that point and explosion discoloured it. "We are going to inform the local police station and SP Lahaul-Spiti about the recovery we have made," he added.
Cut the hype mate. What's all this about "Do you think that IAF is even thinking about yada yada". What makes you think you know what they are thinking or not thinking? And what the hell makes you think that is the mother of all solutions when you have provided no data as to the cause of accidents? "World has moved from this to that" is a whole lot of crap. If you are able to explain why something would be better for the IAF, who makes it, who uses it, under what conditions it is useful and where that would be different. This rhetoric and hype is what i see too much of and I am equally capable of retorting with similar meaningless tripe. All of us spend enough time in front of TV or on the internet to imagine that we can solve all the IAF's issues but that is basically nonsense.saps wrote:
Modern generation aircrafts have moved on from TERCOM to TERPROM and some of them can do a ultra Low level flying in best of himalayan hills with pilot being hands off. Do you think that IAF is even thinking about what all it "MUST HAVE" to ensure that mission accomplishment is as important as safety of crew+machine.