Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): Sep 22, 2011

GopiD · Post by **GopiD** » 29 Oct 2011 17:52

Acharya wrote:
Another Foreign Policy Triumph: Pakistan Gets Free Pass to Shell U.S. Troops
BY GLEN TSCHIRGI

On October 16th, The New York Times reported an astonishing account of repeated shelling of U.S. and Afghan forces from across the Pakistani border that has been near-continuous since May, 2011.

FORWARD OPERATING BASE SHARANA, Afghanistan — American and Afghan soldiers near the border with Pakistan have faced a sharply increased volume of rocket fire from Pakistani territory in the past six months, putting them at greater risk even as worries over the disintegrating relationship between the United States and Pakistan constrain how they can strike back.

Ground-to-ground rockets fired within Pakistan have landed on or near American military outposts in one Afghan border province at least 55 times since May, according to interviews with multiple American officers and data released in the past week. Last year, during the same period, there were two such attacks.

When receiving fire from Pakistan, they said, they do not return fire with white phosphorus and fire far fewer high-explosive rounds. Attack helicopters and aircraft are also less likely to fire ordnance the closer the firing position is to the border, they said, even if it is on the Afghan side.

This Administration has played politics with Afghanistan since Day One and one of the obvious results is that we have Americans sitting on the Pak border forced to absorb indirect fire from Pakistan without any, meaningful way of defending themselves.

Disgraceful.

From the above post and other numerous articles, it is amply clear that TSPA has been double crossing the NATO/US troops by aiding and abetting the Taliban and when possible, avenging for the OBL incident by directly attacking the US troops in Afghanistan.

Given this backstabbing role by TSPA on the NATO troops, I have a simple query. Why can't the US pay in the same coin to TSPA. Why is it always the TSPA the basher and the US the bashed.

NATO troops and in particular US troops can retaliate to paki shelling overtly and remain silent like nothing is happening on the media. They should start supporting the anti-pak forces covertly, as pakis are doing with Taliban and if possible directly assault the posts on the paki side which are attacking the US. They should slaughter so many paki pigs that it is untenable for the TSPA to account for the body count and they will get the message in the their perfidious minds clear....Meanwhile indirectly threaten them with breakup of paki land on ethnic lines...

I think US is hesitant to take this war to the next level....and it is precisely on this plane the Pakis can be checkmated....I guess, there is a lot of timidity and overcautiousness in the present US government setup, similar to the GOI here....And also the CIA/pentagon are unable to break from their old shakles of depending on Pakis for all their dirty work, meanwhile having symbiotic relationship all along.

I guess this should be the roadmap for India too when confronted with Paki Terrors pigs backed by TSPA. Pay them with the same coin....We will have to be prepared to take a lot of hits, but thats the case anyways..... We are being targeted for no action of ours.... why can't we take the risk and be ready to take these hits...

Im just thinking aloud...

Hope some brighter minds here can flash some clear light on these lines for this mango Indian......

Thanks

Added Later:
Also, in the above ramble of mine....I am not suggesting that the US troops are not doing what I have suggested, but there are very few signs, if there are any, to guess that US is thinking on these lines.....

What I am trying to imply is the answer to asymmetric warfare is asymmetric only, especially in the Paki case..... as we had proved to the world by finishing the khalistani movement (which the ISI is desperately trying to revive now) by increasing the cost for the pakis to support and abet such movements..... that is all..

"Lathon ka booth bathon se nahi suntha".... and the lath can be many, economic, psyop, supari to operational heads, media, information...etc etc..

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 29 Oct 2011 18:25

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/world ... kabul.html

13 Americans meet their 72...hope Unkil traces these back to Pakbaric-Sewer-Pig-istan and their scum rulers..and takes suitable counter measures..

The only way this can be solved is to carpet bomb and wipe out a TSPA base / HQ / officer colony / installation after every such attack..

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Oct 2011 18:49

^^ Did Rajaram-ji give out his ramble which he had promised?

Seem to have missed out. Someone bliss do repost in case the ramble was already out in this fast moving dhaaga

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Oct 2011 19:08

GopiD wrote: NATO troops and in particular US troops can retaliate to paki shelling overtly and remain silent like nothing is happening on the media. They should start supporting the anti-pak forces covertly, as pakis are doing with Taliban and if possible directly assault the posts on the paki side which are attacking the US. They should slaughter so many paki pigs that it is untenable for the TSPA to account for the body count and they will get the message in the their perfidious minds clear....Meanwhile indirectly threaten them with breakup of paki land on ethnic lines...

I think US is hesitant to take this war to the next level....and it is precisely on this plane the Pakis can be checkmated....I guess, there is a lot of timidity and overcautiousness in the present US government setup, similar to the GOI here

The Pakis are more clever at this game than the US. They have gamed the US well. This is a game of "Who is going to be the bigger bhenchod?"

If the US shells Pakistan, Pakis will instantly reveal pictures of 1000 dead paki soldiers from US shelling and stop all convoys. they will then shell the US and say that the shelling was from the Taliban who crossed into Pakistan from Afghanistan, but could not be stopped because the US killed all those Paki troops.

You see, for us desis, it is cognitive dissonance to see the US as weak. We will gladly say how weak India is but not the US. And we grasp at the minutest straws of excuses to explain why the US is weak. I may be weak. But my father? America? How can he be weak? The US is weak because the Pakis have them by the balls. Both countries cooperated to perform the most despicable illegal acts tat screwed thousands of others. LOL! these criminal co conspirators are falling out. If the US did things that favored Pakistan and hurt India in US interest, Pakistan is now doing things in its interest. And the US does not know which way to turn. Its a laugh. it's a real laugh.

Mark my words. The US is slightly racist. Not much. Just a bit. Obama's shit smells just that much worse than a WASP's turd. Obama has been and will be the toughest President against Pakistan. And he will go after one term. After that there will be a white man who will reach accommodation with Pakistan. Tell me I was wrong if that does not happen.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 29 Oct 2011 19:36

What do the recent statements by US, Afghanistan & Pakistan mean ?: Pakistan Watch Blog

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 29 Oct 2011 19:39

^^^^^
Well, the answer for the US is boots in the paki. The US has to cross into paki in large numbers, and go after whatever is shooting at them, or has the capability to do so. Bring the Afghan boots with them in large numbers as well. The only thing that will endear the US to all afghans, pushtoons and all, is for the US to smeer or wipe out the Durand line. If US/NATO starts to act as if the line isnt there, and tells the Afghans the line isnt there, but they will help the Afghans draw a line acceptable to them with the paki, then, oh the US will be quite welcome to stick around as far as all the afghans are concerned. And the paki will do what? stop transit? US/NATO has UNSC authorisation for overflights, and an accomodation of sorts with the Bear to come in from the north. The paki will be fckud. Will the kya nahi attack US/NATO forces on the ground? Only in their dreams. And the Pustoons/afghans can again declare victory. But against the paki. Something they have been wanting to do ever since Durand drew that line. They are just damn glad they dont have to deal with any sikhs.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 29 Oct 2011 19:44

shiv ji: the only positive the ombaba can develop for a chance at re election is a clear victory in Afghanistan. He had made this his war even in his first campaign. Yes, he is the toughest president the paki will have to deal with in the WH.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 29 Oct 2011 19:52

Being seen as a liberal wimp gives him a lot of room to move before the left starts hollering...classic case is the number of illegals mainly hispanics they have chucked out in his presidency - a record for all time. Even at 10% of that number, Bush would have been whacked as racist, cruel and what not by the US equivalent of Chindus

Hope he finishes off TSP as we know it...dreaming onlee...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Oct 2011 19:55

ParsuramJi, there are some obvious facets about AfPak as you point, but some not so obvious ones to me at least. Need your insight: 1) You might have seen those BBC reports on TSP double dealing (obvious to us on BR). Without some level of connivance from US, I can't believe that Pakijabis would have so easily re-constituted such large #s of their Talibunnies to torment US; 2) Does TSP have something major up its sleeve that it can so relentlessly taunt US; the latest being the slaughter of dozen+ plus white boys by their Talibunnies, and that too after the recent spat when TSP got some respite post HilaryJi's visit. I mean, its one thing to bludgeon us SDRE cowards and traitors as they have successfully done to date, but something does not add up watching TSP toy with US in the AfPak theater. Are we seeing the real picture or is there something going on behind the scenes we are not privy to? Thoughts/comments?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Oct 2011 20:02

Suppiah:

Come on yaar, you know US politics as well as I do. What "real" power does Obama have, except to follow the diktats and exigencies of the system? Foe e.g., you really think he was comfortable seeing Qaddafi lynched, the very Qaddafi who is respected and somewhat revered by many Africans for his help? My point being that as a black president, there is not a single conviction in him that he can dare play out and lead from the front. All he can do is coast along. In this sense, unless there is real change among the white elites in Pentagon, CIA, state dept etc to do something real about TSP, even if Obama wants to, he will be over-ruled and discredited.

GopiD · Post by **GopiD** » 29 Oct 2011 20:08

shiv wrote: The Pakis are more clever at this game than the US. They have gamed the US well. This is a game of "Who is going to be the bigger bhenchod?"

If the US shells Pakistan, Pakis will instantly reveal pictures of 1000 dead paki soldiers from US shelling and stop all convoys. they will then shell the US and say that the shelling was from the Taliban who crossed into Pakistan from Afghanistan, but could not be stopped because the US killed all those Paki troops.

You see, for us desis, it is cognitive dissonance to see the US as weak. We will gladly say how weak India is but not the US. And we grasp at the minutest straws of excuses to explain why the US is weak. I may be weak. But my father? America? How can he be weak? The US is weak because the Pakis have them by the balls. Both countries cooperated to perform the most despicable illegal acts tat screwed thousands of others. LOL! these criminal co conspirators are falling out. If the US did things that favored Pakistan and hurt India in US interest, Pakistan is now doing things in its interest. And the US does not know which way to turn. Its a laugh. it's a real laugh.

Mark my words. The US is slightly racist. Not much. Just a bit. Obama's shit smells just that much worse than a WASP's turd. Obama has been and will be the toughest President against Pakistan. And he will go after one term. After that there will be a white man who will reach accommodation with Pakistan. Tell me I was wrong if that does not happen.

Shivji....thanks for the informative post.

But, I forgot to put in the words "PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY" to the above post...

I agree that overtly attacking the pakistani posts would be undoable as of now and creating some shadowy org for disgruntled afghans and using them against the TSPA can't be done when the US is seen as an occupier more than the liberator in Afghanistan.

All said and done, u know what shivji? more than the lack in capability, its the lack of stomach for another protracted proxy war and the lack of intent due to maybe a lot of other strategic reasons is the reason for weakness of GOTUS. And as you say, this lack of intent and unable to break up from the old ALLY lie of pak is hurting US now more and this is the inherent weakness of GOTUS. And I have to concur that compared to the asymmetric prowess of TSPA, GOTUS is WEAK and will be until they become bolder...... (and US can't become bolder and get itself involved in this ever-continuing war with the HIDDEN DRAGON in the backyard which is ready to pounce to fill the power vacuum that the US is seen to be creating and the US doesn't want to leave the superpower position soon)....

And about India's weakness....ah... thats a given.... My idea is not asking India to follow US' path of shock&aw to show it's manliness, but the lack of realpolitik decisions and the peace-dove attitude of MMS and his government, especially with respect to Pak, is pricking my mind...

Regards...

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 29 Oct 2011 20:10

CRamS wrote:ParsuramJi, there are some obvious facets about AfPak as you point, but some not so obvious ones to me at least. Need your insight: 1) You might have seen those BBC reports on TSP double dealing (obvious to us on BR). Without some level of connivance from US, I can't believe that Pakijabis would have so easily re-constituted such large #s of their Talibunnies to torment US; 2) Does TSP have something major up its sleeve that it can so relentlessly taunt US; the latest being the slaughter of dozen+ plus white boys by their Talibunnies, and that too after the recent spat when TSP got some respite post HilaryJi's visit. I mean, its one thing to bludgeon us SDRE cowards and traitors as they have successfully done to date, but something does not add up watching TSP toy with US in the AfPak theater. Are we seeing the real picture or is there something going on behind the scenes we are not privy to? Thoughts/comments?

CRam Ji; I just have to take USSD/Peantagon/CIA statements at face value on this - that the paki is on a seperate wavelength from the US on a endgame in Afghanistan, so is working on the Taliban to take over when the ISAF forces leave. Yes the US under the Village Idiot Bush did let the paki take most of their assets out of afghanistan as a condition for with us/against us compliance, but that was on account of the dumb colonel powell who thought he had a general to general deal with the paki at the time. Nothing more than that, I think. My opinion, for what it is worth.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Oct 2011 20:32

shiv wrote: Mark my words.

The US is slightly racist. Not much. Just a bit. Obama's shit smells just that much worse than a WASP's turd. Obama has been and will be the toughest President against Pakistan. And he will go after one term. After that there will be a white man who will reach accommodation with Pakistan. Tell me I was wrong if that does not happen.

Some disagreements as much as I agree as always with you DocJi. US is not slightly racist, it is deeply racist, subconsciously or otherwise. One only has to closely follow US media for a week to get this. Of course, that does not mean those who are useful to the system will not be elevated. Obama, Bobby Jindal, Herman Caine, Nikky Halley etc are among the pantheon of "useful idiots" who are accepted as "leaders". But coming to Obama, I am not yet seeing that threshold that convinces me he is going to get tough with TSP. For me the barometer is the mouthpiece US media. The media is still gloating over Qaddafis' and OBL's death; and who should get creidt Bush or Obama, who tortured Muslims more Bush or Obama; believe it or not, this is the level of crass discourse on US media with so called "experts". Believe me, if there is some movement towards taking on TSP, some noises will be made on US media. Right now, TSP is not even on US media radar screen. That tells me a lot.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 29 Oct 2011 20:41

If retd US Army Col W L Lang is typical (turcopolier.type pad.com) then the BBC documentary has had more effect than even JSC Admiral Mike Mullen's Senate testimony (let alone SDRE writings). It is both funny and sad to see someone inelligent and obviously savvy waking up to have being duped. Sad because all the evidence was there in plain sight for years. It is like one of that curse of Parsuram on Karna in the Mahabharata, that at the key moment his wits will desert him. Of course, a collective blindness is what struck them.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Oct 2011 20:49

GopiD wrote: And I have to concur that compared to the asymmetric prowess of TSPA, GOTUS is WEAK and will be until they become bolder...... (and US can't become bolder and get itself involved in this ever-continuing war with the HIDDEN DRAGON in the backyard which is ready to pounce to fill the power vacuum that the US is seen to be creating and the US doesn't want to leave the superpower position soon)....

And about India's weakness....ah... thats a given.... My idea is not asking India to follow US' path of shock&aw to show it's manliness, but the lack of realpolitik decisions and the peace-dove attitude of MMS and his government, especially with respect to Pak, is pricking my mind...

Weakness is always relative to the other's strengths. To use a rude analogy I may overwhelm a petite woman and try and rape her, but if I try a forced entry into her mouth I am asking for Bobbitry. Pakistanis have less to lose than India as a nation in an all out war, so our so called superiority is only as a "last resort defence", not to punish Pakistan.

You know what? The US strength vis a vis Pakistan is exactly like that. The US will crush Pakistan if they attack the US mainland. But Pakistanis are too clever to do that. Fighting Pakistan for a lesser reason would be very costly. Pakistan is actually powerful. This is not about the recession or anything. The US would tighten its belt and fight if it were actually threatened directly. Pakistan will not let that happen if they can help it.

The only thing that remains is for us on BRF to get lucky. That means that an entity that is opposed to the Pakistani army goes and conducts a spectacular terrorist attack in America that can be traced back to Pakistan. That would change things. If there is anything the Pakistani army would be scared of, that would be it. they are sure to tell the US instantly if they even sniff the possibility of that happening. But then again, I may be wrong. The US may end up behaving as wimp like as India. We only think and like to believe the US will behave strong. There may be a good reason to think instead that powerful rational nations only lose when the take on a suicidal Pakistan. War with Pakistan will not be easy for the USA.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Oct 2011 20:51

Its cognitive dissonance and hubris. How can someone who we consider an ally, is dependent on us for survival, still stab us in the back?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Oct 2011 21:00

No comparison between US and India docJi. TSP has already attacked India umpteen times, and India has responded with dosas and our destinies are linked together and India cannot be "super power" without piss with TSP, and pledges to give up not only give up Kashmir but also lives for Hina duckling.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 29 Oct 2011 21:47

CRamS wrote:No comparison between US and India docJi. TSP has already attacked India umpteen times, and India has responded with dosas and our destinies are linked together and India cannot be "super power" without piss with TSP, and pledges to give up not only give up Kashmir but also lives for Hina duckling.

To India's credit at the opportune moment it cut the Pakis in 1/2 and created Bangladesh. USA has been suffering Paki duplicity for last 10 years, the least it could do is create an independent Baluchistan. What are the chances of that happening?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Oct 2011 22:07

Dipanker wrote:
To India's credit at the opportune moment it cut the Pakis in 1/2 and created Bangladesh. USA has been suffering Paki duplicity for last 10 years, the least it could do is create an independent Baluchistan. What are the chances of that happening?

US has successfully bottled up us SDREs in the India TSP equal equal framework that has served US well for over 60 years. IMO, that geo-political aim trumps anything else US does in "South Asia". If its in US interests, not only will they create an independent Baluchistan, they will nuke slum bad in a heart beat.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 29 Oct 2011 22:14

CRamS wrote:
Dipanker wrote: US has successfully bottled up us SDREs in the India TSP equal equal framework that has served US well for over 60 years. IMO, that geo-political aim trumps anything else US does in "South Asia". If its in US interests, not only will they create an independent Baluchistan, they will nuke slum bad in a heart beat.

Getting American soldiers killed in AfPak is in USA's strategic interest? Or a reflection of it's weakness?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Oct 2011 22:25

CRS if you are in the weeds everything looks like a forest. Please look up and see beyond the forest and read Shyam Saranji and share the optimism.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 29 Oct 2011 22:25

CRamS , tell me one thing , why does your h & d hurt so badly when people take a dig on Khanlands "might" ...Your way of thinking is in fact consistent with most Americans...They would rather have an "evil America" than a "weak one"...if one engages a Mango American in conversation on international politics , and bash US with being evil for attacking so many countries ,they would not be hurt unless one talks to the ultra-cons...But the moment say tomahawk sucks , their h & d will be hurt enough for them to fume with anger and start hurling expletives... Almost as if some1 alleged their moms to have a d@#k...

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 29 Oct 2011 22:26

Dipanker wrote: Getting American soldiers killed in AfPak is in USA's strategic interest? Or a reflection of it's weakness?

Not sure what to make of US inaction. I am not sure its a reflection of its weakness; India's inaction yes, it is a reflection of India's capability or lack thereof and will. Maybe as parsuramJi pointed out, its just that US trusted TSP and only now TSP duplicity is beginning to sink home. And entrenched thinking takes time to morph into something new. Perhaps its as simple as that although I will admit its not a satisfying explanation given that in the past, US went to war when one or two of its white citizens were mistreated by a non western country.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Oct 2011 22:26

SSridhar wrote:
chetak wrote:The Kashmir Story by M. L. Kotru

http://ikashmir.net/kashmirstory/doc/kashmirstory.pdf
Chetak ji, apparently there is a GoI document with that name too. I was surprised by the choice of the name, but I found the reference in the Ministry of Defence's official publication of the 1947-1948 War. The reference says that one of Pakistan's aims was a diversionary tactic to quell the restive Afghan tribes.

SSridhar ji,

Oops, since you mentioned GOI publication, this is what threw me

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... hmir_story

The Kashmir story
M.L. Kotru.
Published 1994 by Printed by External Publicity Division, Ministry of External Affairs, Govt. of India in [New Delhi] .
Written in English.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 30 Oct 2011 00:02

shiv wrote:

The Pakis are more clever at this game than the US. They have gamed the US well. This is a game of "Who is going to be the bigger bhenchod?"

You see, for us desis, it is cognitive dissonance to see the US as weak. We will gladly say how weak India is but not the US. And we grasp at the minutest straws of excuses to explain why the US is weak. I may be weak. But my father? America? How can he be weak? The US is weak because the Pakis have them by the balls. Both countries cooperated to perform the most despicable illegal acts tat screwed thousands of others. LOL! these criminal co conspirators are falling out. If the US did things that favored Pakistan and hurt India in US interest, Pakistan is now doing things in its interest. And the US does not know which way to turn. Its a laugh. it's a real laugh.

This is brilliant!

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 30 Oct 2011 01:46

CRamS wrote:
Dipanker wrote: Getting American soldiers killed in AfPak is in USA's strategic interest? Or a reflection of it's weakness?
Not sure what to make of US inaction. I am not sure its a reflection of its weakness; India's inaction yes, it is a reflection of India's capability or lack thereof and will. Maybe as parsuramJi pointed out, its just that US trusted TSP and only now TSP duplicity is beginning to sink home. And entrenched thinking takes time to morph into something new. Perhaps its as simple as that although I will admit its not a satisfying explanation given that in the past, US went to war when one or two of its white citizens were mistreated by a non western country.

If you watch the "Secret Pakistan" documentary from BBC, you will be able to see that Americans were aware of Paki duplicity since the Khunduz airlift days, not to mention the Paki involvement in perpetration of 9/11 itself.

So either American soldiers being killed in AfPak is in America's "strategic interest" or it is a sign of weakness. It has to be one or the other.

Now you are wrong on india's capability part since India has defeated the Paki in every single war since 1947, that is a score 5 - 0 in India's favor!

I will concede that that Paki have killed about 1,000 Indian's in last 10 years through terrorism, but then Karma having caught up with them, they have lost 35,000+ Paki in the same period.
Heck, more Paki got killed in Karachi in a period of few months this year than all the Indians killed by Paki terrorists in the last 10 year period. Hard to spin that as any sort of victory for the Paki.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Oct 2011 01:52

CRamS wrote: If its in US interests, not only will they create an independent Baluchistan, they will nuke slum bad in a heart beat.

This is complete BS. No basis on reality. Go read McNamara's thoughts on the aftermath of Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missle crisis. The consensus in US is that Nukes can never be used. Can't even be hinted at as a threat. Certainly not first use. The danger of miscalculation is so severe it is simply unthinkable. This thought process reflects a failure to understand America and the American mind. American do not think linearly in terms of threats and actions. They will threaten to bankrupt you and destroy you and then have a beer with you next day over BBQ.

When Amritrage threatened to bomb TSP "back to stone age", it was a conventional threat. And even then many have spoken out to say he was out on a limb. USA has very little ability to act in TSP. TSP has killed more Americans though its proxies and even directly than just about anybody and yet US is stuck with making threats and drone bombing. Maybe it is time to consider that this may be the extent of its abilities in this part of the world.

US will only bomb/invade when victory is already guaranteed and the victim has already lost. Saddam, Gaddafi, etc had already lost the war many many years ago. They just did not know it.

WRT Balochistan, the US has Zero ability to act there. Don't forget it shares a border with Iran. They will never do anything to get into a confrontation with Iran. In Iraq they had a tacit approval from the Iranian elite to go ahead, the US would need something similar on Balochistan.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 30 Oct 2011 02:25

The engagement of India and pakistan is a zero sum game, it is a typical clash of ideologies, where there can be only one winner. Existence of both requires decimation of one of the ideologies. For all the song and dance, that will be the final outcome, there is no room for a mixed ideology to emerge out of that engagement. One is host and other is a parasite, there is no symbiosis possible. The parasite is on steroids to wipe out the host. That arrangement suits the amirkhans.

OTOH, the engagement of pakistan with Unkil is not on ideological basis, it is based on mutual satisfaction of their respective urges. The pakis like to think it is like nikkah, while unkil seems to think that as dealing with a whore.
But pakis are clever, that they play to make unkil do the dance and behave as if they have had nikkah. Hence, every so often unkil will publicly pronounce "till death do us part", "in health or sickness" to its pakiwhore. It also pays all the pre-nuptial costs, goes through the costs associated with break up. Only to re-emerge next day and pronounce " undying love to pakiwhore, till death dos them apart". Currently, there is hardball negotiations going on between two estranged entities that thrive on masochistic tendencies.

unkil can't disengage, because it is addicted (there are no rehabilitation clinics that come by) and would be hard to admit it has been wrong in true sense, in backing the wrong horse. unkil is powerless, but is keeping up the facade of being one. It sure may fool some in unkilland and wkks of india, but it is not fooling the pakis, where it matters most.

Many WKKs echo unkil arrangement and think that india and pakistan is not in zero sum game. The only way that can happen is if parasite is allowed to thrive. India can only allow the parasite to thrive if parasite can thrive on more than one host. That precisely is what has happened. Unkil is busy trying to roll the parasite to be single host entity. The genie is out, if parasite thrives, it will be amenable to multiple-hosts. unkil is truly in soup, but that is price one pays if one indulges in masochistic experiences.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Oct 2011 03:12

JwalaMukhi Ji,
Ik Swal stuti ,What is the definition of Nikah? Its close to Unkil understanding so Paki should not have any complaint. To copy, Steve Wonder
USA can just call to say ,
I use to love you,
From the bottom of my heart.
Now you are ugly,loose and nasty
So, time has come to say
Tlaak Tlaak Tlaak!!
Its perfectly permissible to do so and do not violate the terms of old Nikah with Begum Poakha so she ought not cry of Dokha after Thoka. Poaks can keep the Mahr as contracted. Big Unkil will move as he wishes and can keep then whole global Harem without feeling the pinch.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 30 Oct 2011 03:35

Theo_Fidel wrote:

If its in US interests, not only will they create an independent Baluchistan, they will nuke slum bad in a heart beat.
This is complete BS. No basis on reality. Go read McNamara's thoughts on the aftermath of Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missle crisis. The consensus in US is that Nukes can never be used. Can't even be hinted at as a threat. Certainly not first use.

Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 30 Oct 2011 03:47

Re:

WRT Balochistan, the US has Zero ability to act there. Don't forget it shares a border with Iran. They will never do anything to get into a confrontation with Iran. In Iraq they had a tacit approval from the Iranian elite to go ahead, the US would need something similar on Balochistan.

Theo Ji: Sunni Baloch tribes straddle the Iran/Paki border, there being a "balochistan provence" on both sides of that sensitive line. It is the soft underbelly of Iran, and from the days of the shah, it has been handled adroitly - and sometimes brutally - as needed, on both sides of the divide. Both Iran and the paki have serious security concerns here and the two have cooperated - most of the time, though the paki has demonstrated that it was not beyond taking advantage of the sectarian division between the majority shia & the baloch after the ayatollah's iranian revolution. That was the time iran got real friendly with India, as part of their response to the paki. However, that soft underbelly remains an iranian vulnerability, and there is history of it being utilized as a pressure point against the iranians - by the paki as a proxy (what else) for the Saudis/(US?) and by Saddam Husain. The US therefore, has the ability to press this baloch button, but it cannot do so just casually - it has to be part of a broader well thoughtout strategy, because there are also iranian/prcee competing interests involved at the ports of Chahbahar(iranian balochistan) and gwadar(prcees/paki port, paki balochistan) as outlets for landlocked Afghanistan. Therefore, this baloch button can be both a carrot and a stick in dealings with the iranians. - consider it for what it is worth in the present situation.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 30 Oct 2011 04:54

Re:

If you watch the "Secret Pakistan" documentary from BBC, you will be able to see that Americans were aware of Paki duplicity since the Khunduz airlift days, not to mention the Paki involvement in perpetration of 9/11 itself.

So either American soldiers being killed in AfPak is in America's "strategic interest" or it is a sign of weakness. It has to be one or the other.

Now you are wrong on india's capability part since India has defeated the Paki in every single war since 1947, that is a score 5 - 0 in India's favor!

I will concede that that Paki have killed about 1,000 Indian's in last 10 years through terrorism, but then Karma having caught up with them, they have lost 35,000+ Paki in the same period.
Heck, more Paki got killed in Karachi in a period of few months this year than all the Indians killed by Paki terrorists in the last 10 year period. Hard to spin that as any sort of victory for the Paki.

Dipankar Ji: It has not been as clear cut as you see it regarding US actions pre/post Afghan invasion. Musharraf and the paki was put on the hot plate by their unkil - "with us or against us" dumb black/white formulation of the village idiot president, who had a vast number of fine tuning options available but saw just the black/white he is capable of. In response musharraf made his memorable speach to the paki, recalling the Profit's double dealing with the jews, etc. Then musharraf got himself the best deal he could for his paki from the US, as the Americans were in a hurry to get on with their mission. Yes, the US, realizing that the paki was executing a U turn, was flexible in allowing the paki to take its assets out of afghanistan via the airlift, but the op was sloppy, and a huge terrorist infrastructure was taken out quite intact by the paki right under the ignorent american noses - actually, with their help. By no means was that a cold, calculated strategic decision by the US with some vague (or concrete) aims to use that talibani terrorist infrastructure in the future. Therefore, current US losses on the ground as a result of those bad decisions early in their engagement in Afghanistan are just that - losses due to bad decisions, not some grand strategy under which they are delibratily taking casualties.

On your assessment of India's stats V. the paki, you are very very correct. India is in a zero sum game with the paki, and is way, way ahead on the score card, going back to the very start. As for all the Indian weakness, as a sports metaphore, maybe the paki keeps geting follow on innings because of all the self goals it scores! And the paki will, in due course get to feel what zero feels like in connection with its delusions of grandur about being the mughal empire.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 30 Oct 2011 05:08

CRamS wrote:Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

Were 65 years ago.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Oct 2011 05:23

Theo_Fidel wrote: When Amritrage threatened to bomb TSP "back to stone age", it was a conventional threat.

I think too much misinterpretation of this statement has occurred. In fact I think even Armitage himself did not knowwhat he was saying. In his old age he may understand how the Pakis made an idiot out of him.

You see, 90% of Pakistan is already in the stone age. It is just the 8% middle class and 2% elite who are not in the stone age. Amritraj's threat could affect only that class.

What that Pakis are now telling superpower America (in between breaths when they can stop laughing at American stupidity) is that "if you remove us the elite - you will have stone age Pakistan only. If you want anyone in Pakistan to do your whoring work - you have to keep us alive and healthy." In other words, in 10 years Armitage's famous threat has been chewed up and spat out by the Pakis making it look like the very very stupid statement of something that the US cannot. Pakis are thumbing their noses at the superpower and talking back to the superpower just like the "tough statements" emanating from Washington. And there is pretty much zilch the US can do. They are even supplying electronic warfare suites for the Paki F-16s. So much for "bombing them back into the stone age to get unprecedented cooepration"

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 30 Oct 2011 06:07

shiv ji: namaskar. re:

If you want anyone in Pakistan to do your whoring work - you have to keep us alive and healthy.

We can all sit around and endlessly speculate on what the purpose was of creating this totally ahistorical artificial construct called pakistan. It, like the former yugoslavia, is totally artificial. It is a falacy that islam is a common element in this state. The extent of religious violence strong evidence against it. Basically, it is a large peice of critical geography given to a mercinary army for whatever original purpose, which is now irrelevant. that army has grown and taken up purposes of its own. It has been co-opted by the prcees to some purposes in exchange for nukes. It certainly is not fulfulling any constructive utility for its creaters - the UK and, perhaps, the US. Some where along those creators have to question the continuing utility of their pakinstein monster, and wonder if putting an end to its existance is not the right thing to do. I do not know when such a determination may be made, but I am sure that its creators, or the others in the world will, sooner or later, come to such a conclusion. As one who came into this world shortly after this monster was created, I certainly hope I will live to see the end of its existance before I come to the end of mine - but unlike the paki, I expect to be reborn to do what little more good that I can do

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 30 Oct 2011 06:48

The non-stone age elite appear to have their Plan Bs firmly in place

http://tribune.com.pk/story/284687/our-right-to-know/

About the same time as US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and other powerful members of the ‘Company Bahadur’ were landing at Islamabad airport last week, a US citizen was quietly assuming his responsibilities as the governor of the State Bank of Pakistan.

Another US citizen enjoys the unique distinction of being Pakistan’s ambassador in his own country.

A week earlier, the governor of Sindh, a British subject, in complete violation of the university rules awarded an honorary PhD degree to a fellow British citizen, who also doubles as the interior minister of Pakistan.

The leader of the MQM has taken an oath of loyalty to the Queen of England, her heirs and successors, while the auditor general of Pakistan is a Canadian citizen.

Dozens of other constitutional appointment holders, including many parliamentarians, have foreign nationalities and hence owe their loyalties to other countries.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 30 Oct 2011 07:00

Haqqani filed a libel suit against some media house for claiming he is a US citizen.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 30 Oct 2011 07:17

Nandu wrote:Haqqani filed a libel suit against some media house for claiming he is a US citizen.

Well he can go file another one. This time against Naeem Sadiq.

GopiD · Post by **GopiD** » 30 Oct 2011 07:46

shiv wrote:
What that Pakis are now telling superpower America (in between breaths when they can stop laughing at American stupidity) is that "if you remove us the elite - you will have stone age Pakistan only. If you want anyone in Pakistan to do your whoring work - you have to keep us alive and healthy." In other words, in 10 years Armitage's famous threat has been chewed up and spat out by the Pakis making it look like the very very stupid statement of something that the US cannot. Pakis are thumbing their noses at the superpower and talking back to the superpower just like the "tough statements" emanating from Washington. And there is pretty much zilch the US can do. They are even supplying electronic warfare suites for the Paki F-16s. So much for "bombing them back into the stone age to get unprecedented cooepration"

Shivji......u r sounding MKBish nowadays when you are describing Pak....

I can see that you are trying to shatter the myth of a an ever-present omnipotent superpower US, which many would like to believe, can make TSPA and it's veritable arm vanish in seconds. I agree it's easier imagined than done.....even by the so-called only superpower.

I can also see that you are enjoying the feud between these co-conspirators of crime and you are more than happy that this relationship has turned upside down in a matter of a year or less.....

But try to think this way..... I have been bullied and manhandled many times by a punk (PAK), who is in many ways inferior to me in physique. This hoodlum has been bullying me for a very long time and I seem to be weak and even allow others to interpret me as scared of this guy. It can also be said that I have been scared and weakened in my approach to this guy due to his friendship with the local dada (US) and the local dada has been supporting him in all his bullying/manhandling work. The dada has been helping him against me because the dada thought I was helping another local dada (USSR) who is no more now.

Suddenly, my tormenter picks a fight with his ardent friend, the local dada, and now the dada is showing signs of getting closer to me. The question is what should I do now. And if I think, there are three things for me here. One is my bully is being hurt and is on a self-destruct mode by rubbing on the wrong side of this dada. Second, I am satisfied that dharma is being served to these criminals who have been collaborating to torment me. And third is, I feel and I fervently hope that the dada takes on this bully of mine and finishes him off for his own sake and in the process ending my pain. yes, its a hope, but given my impotence, I can only hope that this bully is taken care by this macho guy, the local dada. And I also have been made to believe this dada is a big shot who can pull off any trick if he wants to......

Yes all these hope, satisfaction and belief springs out of the perceived notion of my impotence and the local dada's machoness.........and for realism to prevail, both the myth of my impotence and the dada's machoness has to be broken. Slowly, with the recent incidents, I am coming to terms with limitations of the the local dada to punish the punk and the dada's machoness myth is being broken.... but nothing is done to break the myth of my impotence and more is being done towards surrendering to this bully of mine, which is emboldening my impotence myth..... and now I am going haywire....

sorry for the ramble....hope you get my drift....

GopiD · Post by **GopiD** » 30 Oct 2011 08:02

JwalaMukhi wrote:The engagement of India and pakistan is a zero sum game, it is a typical clash of ideologies, where there can be only one winner. Existence of both requires decimation of one of the ideologies. For all the song and dance, that will be the final outcome, there is no room for a mixed ideology to emerge out of that engagement. One is host and other is a parasite, there is no symbiosis possible. The parasite is on steroids to wipe out the host. That arrangement suits the amirkhans.

JwalaMukhi ji....extremely enlightening post.... especially the parasite/hot categorization...