Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Nov 2011 03:14

Last page of previous thread.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... start=2840

________________________________________________________
The following links are background articles on Pakistan.

UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN:

Jinnah's Pakistan: An Interview with MA Jinnah, and how the Pakistan of Yesterday is the Pakistan of Today
http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis on Jan 28th 2009, to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. It is a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

Know Your Pakistan
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... /Shiv.html

The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... ayyam.html

PAKISTAN-FAILED STATE: an ebook that owes its origin and existence to BRF.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf

Whither Pakistan ? Growing Instability and Implications for India: an IDSA e-Book, July 2010
http://idsa.in/book/WhitherPakistan

A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers8/paper710.html

Pakistani Role in Terrorism Against the U.S.A
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... yanan.html

Pakistani Education, or how Pakistan became what it is: Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan
http://sdpi.org/sdpi-old/whats_new/repo ... tBooks.pdf

Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. A book written by Pakistanis on Pakistan.
http://members.tripod.com/~no_nukes_sa/Contents.html

Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha
http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part I
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... art-1.html

Prof. Walter Russell Mead, "Pakistan's Failed National Strategy"
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... -strategy/

"Pakistan Is", by Barry Bearak in New York Times Magazine, December 7, 2003.
Brings out succinctly various facets of Pakistani perfidy, obsession, fundamentalism etc.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... nted=print

PAKISTAN & TERRORISM:

The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups (Laskar-e-Taiba)
By Hussein Haqqani (journalist and Pak ambassador to US)
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/rese ... detail.asp

Lashkar-e-Taiba: Past Operations and Future Prospects, Stephen Tankel, April 2011
New America Foundation
http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica. ... _LeT_0.pdf

Pakistani sponsoring of Terrorism
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/
http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terro ... y_Tool.htm

Terror Map: The Pakistani Hand
http://sify.com/news/specials/terrormap/?vsv=TopHP1

Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan - a statistical analysis
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... idhar.html

A chronicle of genocide by the Pakistan army
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Documentary video evidence of Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-94U1bVUQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKlIUbpc ... re=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZV ... re=related

Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... r_sb1.html

Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk
http://www.rand.org/hot/op-eds/090101JIR.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part II
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... -upon.html

BEYOND MADRASAS: ASSESSING THE LINKS BETWEEN EDUCATION AND MILITANCY IN PAKISTAN
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/ ... nthrop.pdf

Pakistani Military Officers' Links with Jihadist Organizations
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5587.htm

PAKISTAN TODAY:

On the Frontier of Apocalypse: Christopher Hitchens seminal article on Pakistan today
http://newsstuff.0catch.com/article5.htm

http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/10/14bow2.htm

A Slender Reed in Pakistan - Editorial in the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p08s03-comv.html

Seymour Hersh Interview
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html

Pakistan's Nuclear Crimes (Wash. Post editorial)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... 2-2004Feb4

http://www.indiadefence.com/LOA07Aug04.htm

The Battle for Pakistan: Militancy and Conflict in Pakistan's Tribal Regions
http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/ ... r_pakistan

BOOK REVIEW Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r1844.html

Article from Vinni Capelli - Foreign Policy Research Institute:
Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/5101/cappelli ... kistan.pdf

The videos are from this documentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

A bomb at all cost By Ahmad Faruqui - a candid admission of the wars that Pakistan started against India.

Popular support for suicide bombings in pakistan.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg12_1
Survey by university students in karachi say 50% of respondents support suicide bombings in kashmir.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWsmJIwe9Q4
"Descent into Chaos"
UC Berkeley Conversations with History, host Harry Kreisler talking with Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid. 59 minutes 120 MB. It sums up Pakistan and lays bare all Pakistan's terrorist support and proliferation activities. **Note - he wants the US to solve Pakistan's Kashmir problem.

Pakistan on the brink: Video Link (must download)

MISCELLANEOUS
Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto telling Bangladeshis to "Go to Hell": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dsxfyxa ... re=related

IDSA's weekly summary of Pak Urdu Press:

http://www.idsa.in/pup
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five installment series by Kapil Komireddi published in Frum Forum

Part I. Nov 16, 2009. “Pakistan In Crisis”.

Part II. Nov 18. 2009. “Pakistan: Origins of A Failed State”.

Part III. Nov 18, 2009. “Pakistan: It Could Not Succeed Unless India Failed”.

Part IV. Dec 06, 2009. “Pakistan: A Mecca for Radical Islam”.

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad”

A perceptive blog on Pakistan: http://pak-watch.blogspot.com/

Declassified documents from US National Archives on Pakistan:

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/pakistan.htm
_______________________________________________

Admission of state sponsored terrorism by Pakistani authorities

see this Der Spigel Interview where Musharraf admits to that.

On 7th Nov in TimesNow Channel, Tasneem Noorani, a former Secretary of the Pakistani Interior Ministry, openly said that.

Kiyani called the Haqqanis as strategic assets.

In Dec. 2008, President Zardari himself admitted to ISI helping LeT. He said,"The links between the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency and the LeT were developed in the old days when dictators used to run the country. After the 9/11 terror attacks in the US, things have changed to a great extent"

In an address to bureaucrats in July 2009, President Zardari said: "Militants and extremists were deliberately created and nurtured as a policy to achieve some short-term tactical objectives. Let us be truthful to ourselves and make a candid admission of the realities. The terrorists of today were the heroes of yesteryears until 9/11 occurred and they began to haunt us as well"

In Nov. 2009, Prime Minister Gilani admitted to the support for terrorism by Musharraf as "running with the hares and hunting with the hounds".

When Bush warned the Pakistanis in August 2008 of their support to Al Qaeda, Afrasiab Khattak, President of Awami National Party (ANP) said this: "The question is why it has taken the Americans so long to see what the ISI is doing. We’ve been telling them for years but they wouldn’t buy it.". See here.

In an interview to the BBC as far back as on Feb. 13, 1994, Benazir Bhutto admitted how she handed over to Rajiv Gandhi the complete list of Sikh activists colluding with the ISI in terrorism in the Punjab. Later, Nawaz Sharif described this interview as a faux pas.

Apart from these, of course, numerous Pakistani commentators, analysts, and editors have openly admitted to terror as a state policy.

________________________________________________________________________

A Venn diagram, by Shiv, to illustrate the commonality and difference between "bad Taliban" and Jinnah's Pakistan.

________________________________________________________________________

Why Did Pakistan's Spy Chief Make a Secret Trip to China?

Pasha's China trip has been interpreted by some as a tacit act of defiance—a reminder to his American counterparts that the Pakistanis can always look east to their “all-weather” friend across the Himalayas rather than bend the knee to the will of the U.S.

But it also may be a sign of China's growing disquiet with Pakistan. Another top-ranking Pakistani military officer, Lt. Gen Wahid Arshad, had already conducted a considerable tour of China just weeks ago in a bid to improve ties. A few analysts have suggested that Pasha's trip — couched in vague terms about building a “broad-based strategic dialogue” — may have been less a visit and more of a summons.

Chinese officials claimed the attacks in Kashgar were authored by the shadowy East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a jihadist organization of mostly ethnic Uighurs, a Turkic Muslim minority that comprises the majority in the far-western Chinese region of Xinjiang. China routinely invokes the specter of the terrorist threat when cracking down on dissent in the restive region. Yet disturbances there tend to be triggered more often by social discontent — many Uighurs chafe at state policies they deem discriminatory and marginalizing — than militant connivance. Pasha's presence in Beijing may mark Beijing's continued efforts to root out Uighur dissidents and sympathizers beyond China's borders, as it has already done in Kazakhstan.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 01 Nov 2011 03:17

Guys some of the links above are missing. Pls whoever can, fix it or copy/paste with linx if that's possible...

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 01 Nov 2011 03:30

US missiles kill four in North Waziristan

PESHAWAR: Pakistani intelligence officials say US drone-fired missiles have killed four suspected militants close to the Afghan border.

The officials say the strike Monday on a vehicle took place close to the town of Mir Ali in the North Waziristan tribal region.

The identities of those killed were not known.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief the media.

American drones routinely fire missiles at al-Qaida and Taliban militants on the Pakistan side of the Afghan border.

US officials do not talk about the CIA-led program, which is unpopular in Pakistan.

parsuram · Post by **parsuram** » 01 Nov 2011 04:18

Just a PS on the discussion re racism from the last thread: note that the iranis, instead of arguing endlessly on dark/ light issues, simply flipped good /bad of suras/asuras( asuras equals good). That is the quickest way to address the problem ( light skinned barbarians invading darker civilized people).

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Nov 2011 04:37

Pakistan 's Identity is based on hating India
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ocugxz5 ... re=related
Hassan Niser Told India Ke Foundation Brahman,Kshatria,Vaisia,Sudra ki Ye Muslim kaha se Aaye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijj6lMM6 ... re=related
Nisar: "Muslims Ruled India" is a Lie / Murda khane wale Poak/Hajar saal ke Ghulam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iK5pEV4 ... re=related

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Nov 2011 05:08

The new savior - Imran Khan
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg3_5

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 01 Nov 2011 05:10

Pentagon confirms that Pakistani in militia uniform killed a US Army officer in May 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2011 05:59

shravan wrote:Pentagon confirms that Pakistani in militia uniform killed a US Army officer in May 2007
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html

What was happening in 2007 that made it necessary for the US to protect the Paki military? Or has it been 30 years since 2007, so the 30 year secrecy rule is no longer valid. Powerful are the ways of the superpower in dealing with Pakistan. Maybe if the US says it is now 30 years since 2007 we have to accept it because the US has a multi trillion dollar economy and the world's most powerful military? When you are a superpower you can make such decisions.

What I find particularly laughable about this report is the way India is too weak to speak up the truth. The report cearly says that the Paki army man who shot the American acted on his own so there is little anyone could have done to stop it.

You see India too should admit that Hafiz Saeed was acting on his own in the LeT. In fact Ajmal Qasab too was acting on his own. It's not as if Assphuck Kayani came and pulled the trigger. Once weak Indian admit the truth after a 30 (or 4) year investigation we can then absolve ourselves of all blame and say "nothing could have been done about it because it was a lone gunman".

The whole goddam tamasha sounds to incredibly stupid to me. It's not Pakistan that's getting exposed. Pakistan was exposed long ago. It's the USA that is getting exposed.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:14

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDe ... 5416&Cat=2

Imran Khan: new trouble man for US in Pakistan

Hamid Mir
Tuesday, November 01, 2011

ISLAMABAD: Imran Khan is no more a cricketer turned politician. He has suddenly become an important regional player in the US endgame in Afghanistan.

A mind-blowing public rally of Imran Khan in Lahore on October 30 made it very difficult for the Zardari regime to give new commitments or accept any demands from the US to push its decade-long war against terror. Imran Khan has not only become a threat for traditional political parties inside Pakistan but is also going to become a big hurdle in the implementation of demands made by US during the recent visit of Hillary Clinton to Islamabad.

The PTI leader criticised not only President Asif Ali Zardari and Nawaz Sharif but also blasted US policies in the biggest-ever show of political power in Lahore in the past 25 years. The last time Lahore saw this kind of political tsunami was on April 10, 1986 when late Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto returned after many years in exile. A big reception to the daughter of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was a bombshell for the then military dictator. Benazir Bhutto addressed a big rally in Iqbal Park, adjacent to the historical Lahore Fort. That rally was the beginning of General Zia’s end.

The October 30 rally by Imran Khan in the same Iqbal Park also looked like an end of pro-US policies started by General Pervez Musharraf ten years ago. Imran addressed US Secretary of State as “Chachi Clinton” (Aunty Clinton) and said a big no to any more army operations in Pakistan’s tribal areas. It will now be impossible for the ruling Pakistan People’s Party and its coalition partners to start new operations in North Waziristan or even continue the old operations from South Waziristan to Khyber Agency. Elections are close and no political government can take the risk of going against public opinion.

Hillary Clinton is these days desperately looking for someone who can become a bridge between Afghan Taliban and the US. Imran Khan can make some serious efforts in this regard but is more focused on the situation inside Pakistan. He has offered his services for the engagement of Pakistani Taliban but wants assurances that there will be no more military operations.

Imran said all this just one day before the meeting of President Asif Ali Zardari with Afghan President Hamid Karzai in Istanbul. The US has arranged this meeting through Turkish President Abdullah Gull for the success of the Istanbul conference. Army Chief General Kayani also left for Turkey on Monday. Afghan officials will discuss the US endgame with Pakistan, India, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan, UAE, Turkey, US and UK in Istanbul Conference from November 1.

The US wants some commitments from Pakistan at this conference and that is why the Pakistani Army Chief is also invited to this conference. However, Imran Khan’s massive anti-American rally has made it very difficult for Pakistani leaders to oblige their friends from Saudi Arabia and Turkey who have became part of the process on the US request.

Imran criticised the Army operations in the tribal areas in very strong words. He clearly said some tribal elders had given him assurances that if US drone attacks were stopped and the Pakistan Army halted operations in the tribal areas they would control all militants. Imran Khan also arranged meetings of these tribal elders (mostly from North Waziristan) with his ex-wife Jemima Khan who is making a documentary against drone attacks.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:15

Anti-US Pakistani cricketer rallies 100,000 people
By ASIF SHAHZAD and SEBASTIAN ABBOT Associated Press October 30, 2011 1:20PM
http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/8507 ... eople.html
ISLAMABAD — Cricket legend and opposition politician Imran Khan railed against the government and its alliance with the U.S. before more than 100,000 flag-waving supporters Sunday, establishing himself as a force in Pakistani politics.

Khan, 58, entered politics 15 years ago when he founded Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf, or the Movement for Justice Party, but up to now he has struggled to translate his fame into votes. The rally in the eastern city of Lahore indicated his message may have found new resonance at a time when Pakistanis are fed up with the country’s chronic insecurity and economic malaise.

“I have come here to register my hatred against this corrupt system,” said 29-year-old Nadeem Iqbal, who attended the rally.

A poll conducted by the U.S.-based Pew Research Center in June found Khan, the captain of Pakistan’s 1992 world champion cricket team, to be the most popular political figure in the country.

Khan’s rising popularity could be a concern for the U.S., given his harsh criticism of the Pakistani government’s cooperation with Washington in the fight against Islamist militants.

He has been especially critical of U.S. drone strikes targeting militants in Pakistan’s rugged tribal region along the Afghan border. The latest suspected strike killed six alleged militants Sunday.

Khan has argued that Pakistan’s alliance with the U.S. is the main reason Pakistan is facing a homegrown Taliban insurgency.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:20

US Delegation to Attend ‘Water Dialogue’ in Pakistan
http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/ ... akistan-2/
Posted Monday, October 31st, 2011 at 6:50 pm
The U.S. State Department says Under Secretary of State for Democracy and Global Affairs, Maria Otero, is leading the U.S. delegation to a meeting of the U.S.-Pakistan Water Dialogue in Islamabad.
A State Department statement issued Monday says the purpose of the working group meeting is to develop actions that promote water security in response to the needs of the Pakistani people.
Meetings will be attended by technical experts from both governments and will include representatives from each of the Pakistan's four provinces.
In addition, Otero is scheduled to meet with officials from the central and provincial governments, civil society representatives and youth leaders. The discussions will include topics related to water, civilian security, health, rule of law, human rights, refugees, and the growing role of youth in Pakistan.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:24

Bush's project leaves US weaker
It's ironic that while nations that its forces occupied are doing well, more Americans are relying on food stamps
By Linda S. Heard, Special to Gulf NewsPublished: 00:00 November 1, 2011
George W. Bush
http://gulfnews.com/opinions/columnists ... r-1.921433

When George W. Bush began implementing the neoconservative ‘Project for a New American Century' manifesto, little did he know that his actions would boomerang leaving the superpower economically, strategically and morally weaker than before. The idea was to use "a new Pearl Harbor" as a catalyst for a show of US military power that would leave the rest of the world in no doubt as to which nation was the planet's boss.

The Middle East, the Gulf and beyond were given special attention due to their strategic location between Europe and Asia — and more importantly because of the region's precious oil and gas resources. If all went to plan, by now, the US should have inserted obedient pro-western puppets in Afghanistan and Iraq and persuaded their respective populations that Uncle Sam was a benign benefactor, protector and deliverer of freedom and democracy.

If things are worked out, US company giants would have greatly fattened coffers, Americans would be benefiting from cheap oil, America's global competitors would be out in the cold and US soldiers would be looked up to as liberators by grateful populations. Moreover, even after the withdrawal of occupying troops, there would be massive American military bases dotting those purportedly sovereign countries. The endeavour failed because it was drawn-up by intellectuals based on theory without taking into account human complexities or cultural/religious differences.

Ties with Pakistan
Ten years on from the US-led invasion of Afghanistan not only are the Taliban stronger than ever their leaders are gradually being invited back into society's mainstream by America's former ‘man in Kabul' President Hamid Karzai. I use the word ‘former' because Karzai is fed up of being criticised by Washington and is appalled at the cavalier fashion occupying forces treat innocent human life. Untold numbers of Afghan villagers have been killed by US drones tracking one or two Taliban fighters.
Karzai wants the Americans out and is clearly at the end of his tether judging by his recent statement to the effect his government would back Islamabad in the event Pakistan and the US were to engage in armed conflict. And, in fact, that possibility exists at a time when US-Pakistan relations have been at their lowest since 2001 when the US warned the then Pakistani government that if it didn't play ball with Washington it would be bombed back to the dark ages.
At that time, Pakistan responded to US sticks and carrots but now even America's friends there are feeling humiliated that their country's sovereignty was breached by US Navy SEALS on a mission to assassinate Osama Bin Laden. Pakistan's military and security services are seething over US accusations that they were harbouring the white-haired militant all along while according to US Admiral Mike Mullen, the pro-Taliban Haqqani network, considered responsible for a truck bombing and an attack on the US embassy, is a "veritable arm of the ISI".
Congress is said to be shocked at Karzai's outburst but there's nothing shocking about it. It makes perfect sense. Afghans and Pakistanis share the same neighbourhood, the same religion and, in some instances, are members of the same tribes. Why would any Afghan's allegiance lie with the people who bombed, invaded and occupied his country; foreigners from the other side of the world? Congress thinks Karzai should be grateful which is laughable. Afghanistan today is a security nightmare and the lives of ordinary people are anything but free. For Afghanistan and nuclear Pakistan to reach a military pact makes perfect sense.
The White House thinks Iraqis are ungrateful too for not acceding to US troops staying in Iraq beyond the end of this year with immunity from prosecution despite unrelenting US pressure to do so. Most Iraqis view the American presence as an anathema, a visible reminder of eight years of pain and humiliation while most top members of Nouri Al Maliki's government are under the sway of Tehran. I suspect it won't be too long before Washington is told to reduce its 17,000 ‘diplomatic' personnel scheduled to remain within the world's largest US embassy in Baghdad and in US consulates around the country.

It's ironic that the US taxpayer has paid over $1 trillion (Dh3.67 trillion) for those wars and their aftermath yet from their perspective nothing beneficial has been achieved. On the contrary, Afghanistan and Pakistan are getting cosy while the same goes for Iraq and Iran. It's also ironic that while countries the US occupied are on an economic upward path, greater numbers of Americans are relying on food stamps. The real new American century envisaged by Bush is not one of US domination after all. A 22-nation Pew Poll conducted in July shows that most Western Europeans believe China already has or will supplant the US as the world's leading power.
The people who conceived Bush's foreign policy and conducted foolish military adventures have gotten away with criminally squandering America's respected place in the world while the US taxpayer is still picking up the tab.

Linda S. Heard is a specialist writer on Middle East affairs. She can be contacted at lheard@gulfnews.com. Some of the comments may be considered for publication.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:36

The changing face of Pakistan’s army
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/ ... tans-army/

Saturday, October 29, 2011 - Letters from Pakistan by Qaiser Farooq Gondal

PAKISTAN, October 29, 2011— The Army of Pakistan is a professional force whose ideology and philosophy reflects the personality of its leader. The political ideology of the institution has varied from that of a strict practicing Muslim to a liberal democratic general changing the ideologue of the Pakistan Army with him.

The military leadership promotes those who think like he does and forces out those who are different. The officers following the majority grow in the ranks and the officers differing from the majority are degenerated and eliminated from the competition.

After the partition of the Indian continent into two separate countries, India and Pakistan, in August 1947, Army personnel could choose which country to join leading to the creation of the Pakistan Army and to a series of coups in order to determine power rankings in the Army and Pakistani government.

Many muslim military officers opted for the Pakiston Army, while Hindu officers joined the Indian Army. Secular officers from the united Indian army divided between the India and Pakistan armies. The officers who joined the Pakistan army trained the junior officers in a secular lifestyle emphasizing loyalty to country rather than loyalty to religion.

Pakistan army’s first commander-in-chief was General Sir Douglas Gracey (1894-1964). Gracey is recogonized for refusing to send Pakistan Army troops to Kashmir, India, retiring from his post in 1951 and removing the role of the Englishman as the titular head of the Pakistan Army.

From 1951 to 1958 General Aybu Khan was in power creating the Conventional Muslim League that elected Prime Minister Z.A. Bhutto. In 1969, General Yahya Khan assumed power which led to the deaths of many as civilian unrest in East Pakistan led to the execution of West Pakistanis and the Biharis and Bengalis that supported them.

General Yaha Khan was found responsible for the 1971 Bangladesh Atrocities during which more than three-million people were killed by the Pakistani Army under Khan. Zulifikar Ali Bhutto returned to Pakistani after Khan was overthrown in 1971.

Pakistan's turmoil continued when in 1977 Army General Zia ul-Hag overthrew the government, leading to the conviction and hanging of Z.A. Bhutto allowing ul-Hag to assume power as a military dictator until his accidental death in 1988.

The Kargil Conflict led to a military action between Pakistan and India, resulting in Pakistan withdrawing from Kargil and the Pakistan Army, once again, overthrowing the elected government and putting General Pervez Musharraf into power however his rule was declared unconstitutional and Musharraf and he was replaced in July 2009 by Brigadiar Muzaffar Usmani.

General Ayub Khan imposed martial law in October 1958 on Pakistan and became the first military dictator of Pakistan. Although he was a dictator, he was liberal in his thoughts. He did not try to change the lifestyle of the officers of Pakistan army or to impose any religious ideals on the military. Ayub Khan subsequently transferred his power to General Yahya Khan, who had a vision to democratize Pakistan. Under his leadership, Pakistan held its first parliamentary elections in 1970. During Yahya Khan’s rule, secular liberals joined the military, mimicking Yahva Khan’s ideology. Strict and extremis religious people felt no attraction in joining a secular institution. During this time, Pervez Musharraf, a secular liberal, entered the junior ranks of army.

The secular face of Pakistan army continued till General Zia-ul-Haq became the Chief of army staff. General Zia was a practicing Muslim and he imposed martial law on Pakistan in July 1977. While he was in power, Pakistan fought the proxy war of US against communist USSR. To fight the war against USSR, General Zia encouraged a particular brand of Islam in Pakistan generally and in the army specifically. As a result, secular officers faced difficulties in the military. They were forced to observe General Zia’s Islam or to retire. General Zia died in an air crash in August 1988, and with his death, ended the era of an extreme, fundamentalist, radical, Islamic army.

As a result of the two extremes; Yahya Khan and Zia-ul-Haq, the Pakistan army saw the growth of a third type of officer which was a synthesis of the two extremes. This third type of officer flourished under General Pervez Musharraf, the third military dictator who ruled from 1999 to 2008. Pervez Musharraf, himself entered army as a secular individual, but was forced by the Zia-ul-Haq regime to observe strict Islamic way of life. He survived that regime and converted into the third type of officer.

Today Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is continuing the secular, professional Army.

The present Pakistan army consists mostly of people of the third type who have a mixture of religious and secular beliefs. These officers on the one hand, know fully well how to exploit and manipulate religious laws to their benefit and on the other hand they know how to deal with the secular civil society of Pakistan and they have no strict allegiance with any of the party.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:39

US State Department denies Musharraf visit to seek support for re-election bid
TruthDive - ‎Oct 29, 2011‎
http://truthdive.com/2011/10/30/US-Stat ... n-bid.html

Washington, Oct 30(ANI): The US State Department has denied reports that former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf had visited there to solicit support for his bid to win the next presidential election in his country. “Well, let's start with the fact

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:44

Pakistan and America: A roller-coaster relationship
South Asian News Agency (SANA) ⋅ October 31, 2011 ⋅ Share/Save
Shahid Javed Burki
http://www.sananews.net/english/2011/10 ... ationship/

By one count, this is the third time in about 50 years that Pakistan’s relations with the United States are moving through a rough patch. In a series of several articles, one today and more to follow in the weeks to come, I will provide a brief history of Pakistan’s relations with the United States and then go on to examine where the two countries may be heading in the next several years.
Field Marshal Ayub Khan, Pakistan’s first military president, was the architect of a close relationship with the United States. America then was one of the two superpowers. By concluding two defence agreements with Washington, he distanced his country from the Soviet Union, the other superpower. This was a different line from the one pursued by most other developing nations. India, under Jawaharlal Nehru, had joined other large developing countries to follow what came to be called the ‘non-aligned movement’, or NAM. The NAM countries kept themselves at an equal distance from the two superpowers. Pakistan, along with some nations in the Middle East and Southeast Asia, cast its lot with the United States.

When Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, once Ayub Khan’s foreign minister, questioned this approach, the military leader countered by titling his political autobiography, Friends not Masters. Bhutto had suggested that Pakistan had acquired a ‘master’ by entering into several defence relationships with the United States. The former foreign minister responded by writing his own book under the title of Myth of Independence. The two books appeared after the United States had already walked out of Pakistan. This happened when Islamabad went to war with India in September 1965. Washington responded by cutting military and economic aid to Pakistan. The close relationship engineered by Ayub Khan thus lasted for just over a decade.
The second close alliance between Pakistan and America was also under a military president, this time under General Ziaul Haq. There was clearer quid pro quo this time around. Pakistan agreed to help the United States throw out the Soviet Union from Afghanistan.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:48

Pervez Musharraf – Popular or Infamous?
By Ibrahim Sajid Malick on October 30, 2011
http://ibrahimsajidmalick.com/pervez-mu ... mous/1731/

When former general, dictator and president Pervez Musharraf was telling a packed audience at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington Wednesday that he may return to lead his country again, a well established Pakistani entrepreneur sitting next to me cringed and whispered “there goes any hope of doing business with Pakistan.”

Although I concurred – but I tried to play the devils advocate and argued that in 1999 when Gen. Pervez Musharaff took over, Pakistan was on the verge of bankruptcy with only a billion dollars in foreign exchange reserves; 65% of GDP was used for debt servicing. I also reminded him that Pakistani stock market was stuck at 10,000 points and exports were less than $8 billion. In 2006, I told him, Pakistan’s foreign exchange reserves had peaked to more than $16.5bn and rupee was stable at around 60-61 to a dollar. I told him that Pakistan grew at 7% annually under Musharraf , debt servicing was lowered to less than 30% and the Karachi stock market peaked as well. Pakistani exports, I asserted, reached $18 billion and the economy  doubled in seven years reaching $160 billion from a mere $70 billion in 1999. I also reminded my successful Pakistani entrepreneur that the IT industry in Pakistan was virtually non-existent in 1999 but in the magical seven years grew to $2 billion and employed 90,000 people.

And, at that moment a light bulb went on; I vividly remembered Shaukat Aziz (who was Finance Minister in June 2003) in New York pitching S&P and Moody’s to increase the credit rating for Pakistan. He was successful. But so were millions of other defaulters – Joe, Jill, Mike, Jesus – sub-prime market was at prime.

I understood why my friend was calling it “Musharaff-Aziz Ponzi Scheme” – because during their rule FDI increased but the domestic savings declined. You don’t need to be an economist to understand what happens when FDI grows and savings shrink – you create a hollow economy that collapse the minute foreign investors pull out. That’s exactly what happened to Pakistan.

Musharaff told his audience in Washington last week that he enjoys popular support in Pakistan. He said, “when I resigned from my presidency, many, many people were crying in Pakistan. There were six cameramen who were filming me and four of them were crying right in front of me and it was a great distraction because I was speaking at that time.”

What he didn’t say is that after he left, nearly 40 million poverty stricken Pakistanis have been crying because of his economic adventurism. Is he popular or infamous?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 06:52

This guy wants to now tell another country
Cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan on Sunday (October 30) led a massive gathering of his supporters in Lahore as he sought to galvanise his fledgling Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf party by raking up the issue of the rights of Kashmiris and seeking withdrawal of Indian troops from Jammu and Kashmir.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 07:19

Turkey wants Afghan-Pakistan summit to reduce mistrust
Malaysia Star - ‎1 hour ago‎
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?fi ... rldupdates

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkey hopes talks it is hosting between the presidents of Pakistan and Afghanistan in Istanbul on Tuesday will reduce their deep mutual mistrust and begin a new period of cooperation between the two ...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Nov 2011 07:27

I think UK and US are banking on this guy Imran Khan to be next BB of TSP. Hence this out of size voice.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2011 07:40

JE Menon wrote:Guys some of the links above are missing. Pls whoever can, fix it or copy/paste with linx if that's possible...

Could one of the mods please set the first post right? Sridhar?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Nov 2011 07:42

Diwali brings India, Pak envoys together in China
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 562130.cms

Times of India - ‎3 hours ago‎
BEIJING: India-Pakistan relations sparkled for a while as Pakistani ambassador Masood Khan and his wife, Zohra, took the rare step of participating in Diwali celebrations at the Indian embassy premises in Beijing on Saturday evening.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 01 Nov 2011 08:37

^^^^ " American army is loosing in Afghanistan, how can Indian army win in Kashmir? Is Indian army more powerful than American army?" Imran Khan.

This man is a gullible fool, which the PA , needs as a front to assuage peoples emotions, thats it. He has no economic agenda what so ever.
In a way i think Pakistan deserves a messiah like this, before the Talibanisation happens. Mark my words this guy will be a great disaster.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2011 09:05

menon s wrote:^^^^ " American army is loosing in Afghanistan, how can Indian army win in Kashmir? Is Indian army more powerful than American army?" Imran Khan.
This man is a gullible fool, which the PA , needs as a front to assuage peoples emotions, thats it. He has no economic agenda what so ever.
In a way i think Pakistan deserves a messiah like this, before the Talibanisation happens. Mark my words this guy will be a great disaster.

India is advised to handle Pakistan the way the US handles Pakistan by people who extol the US's super powers.

Imran says the US is losing so India will lose
Rahrah USA says US is winning against Pakistan and India cannot win unless it behaves like USA.
Indians say India is losing.

So India should not behave like India or like USA. India should behave like Pakistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2011 09:07

Acharya wrote:Diwali brings India, Pak envoys together in China
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 562130.cms

Times of India - ‎3 hours ago‎
BEIJING: India-Pakistan relations sparkled for a while as Pakistani ambassador Masood Khan and his wife, Zohra, took the rare step of participating in Diwali celebrations at the Indian embassy premises in Beijing on Saturday evening.

This news is as unworthy of being read as it is for the ToIlet to publish it in the first place

Breaking news:

"Man with 200 broken bones gets a moment of relief after he has a good crap"

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Nov 2011 09:15

menon s wrote:^^^^ " American army is loosing in Afghanistan, how can Indian army win in Kashmir? Is Indian army more powerful than American army?" Imran Khan.
This man is a gullible fool, which the PA , needs as a front to assuage peoples emotions, thats it. He has no economic agenda what so ever.
In a way i think Pakistan deserves a messiah like this, before the Talibanisation happens. Mark my words this guy will be a great disaster.

omar's paki girlfriend was singing this moron's praises on undie tv just the

other day in a fawning interview.

This guy has always been bad news for India but we have failed to

recognize it because of panting and creaming female anchors.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Nov 2011 09:31

Rajesh ji, continuing the issue from last thread, holding a mirror to pakistan's racism is nothing new on BR, it comes up time and again on the TSP thread and BENIS has been doing it in a humorous way for ages.

what I do not agree on is that calling some paki women ugly or butch achieves that in *any* way. most people will see it as plain old prejudice and nothing more.

p.s. don't get drawn into complicated imagery, think of them as orcs.

their history fits the orcs to a t. as saruman says in LOTR "they were elves once. taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated. A ruined and terrible form of life"
replace orcs with pakis and elves with Indians/civilized beings and you get the idea.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Nov 2011 09:34

This Imran Khan thing could very well be another plan of the Brits to set up their own man/woman at the helm of things in Pakistan.

Imran Khan's "ex-wife" Jemima Khan is totally wired in into the British establishment. Imran Khan campaigned for Zac Goldsmith, Jemima's brother, the now Conservative MP from Richmond Park, where there are 5% Muslims, and in the tight race, Imran Khan's support did help him win the race.

Now she is making a documentary on Drone-Killings in Pakistan, and going about distributing cameras to people there. Does that hurt the Americans? May be! But so what? If anti-Americanism sells well in Pakistan, what is wrong for the Brits to indulge in it! If the Brits get their own man in Islamabad, Americans would have to go to the Brits again to help them "control" Af-Pak. It has always been the dream of Brits to control the happenings in the world through influence in Islamabad!

Jemima was also active in supporting Julian Assange of wikileaks! Lately they campaigned against the war in Afghanistan together.

Brits seem to be harvesting anti-Americanism in Pakistan to put their own man Imran Khan into the PM seat in Pakistan, and to control the temperature of the Indian Subcontinent from there.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Nov 2011 09:38

Last time TSP had a Pathan, Ayub Khan they got guided democracy.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Nov 2011 10:28

Rahul M ji,

I've copied the discussion on Pakistani Racism into the "Managing Pakistan's failure" Thread. My response to your comment is there as well.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 01 Nov 2011 10:55

Remember that Maulana Abdul Aziz? The Chief Mullah of Lal masjid who tried to escape in a Burkha and Pakis ended paying a huge price for invading his mosque? Guess what happened to his court case......

http://tribune.com.pk/story/285881/lal- ... our-cases/

Lal Masjid cleric acquitted in four cases

District courts acquitted the chief cleric of Lal Masjid in four of the 12 cases registered against him for crimes including challenging government writ by keeping illegal arms.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 01 Nov 2011 10:58

Hope Maulana Abdul Aziz gets some compensation from the government for his prolonged detainment.

AoA

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Nov 2011 11:20

So let us now have an Indian political party or parties organising a million man strong rally where we tell the US,Imran and co. to get off,and stop their drug-induced hallucinations that India will quiver in its chappals and hand over J&K to the pakis,or that Afghanistan will ne handed over to them as well! When it comes to numbers,we will trump the Pakis any day,after all the globe's 7billionth baby was born yesterday in India ,no?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Nov 2011 12:03

TSP supports Military Action Against Terrorists - Gilani - DT

“We are supporting military action against terrorists and extremists {selectively}. The terrorists are working against the interest of my country {i.e. 'bad Taliban'} and we are fighting for the peace, prosperity and progress of the entire world,” Gilani said in an interview with ABC News’ political correspondent Lyndal Curtis in Perth before leaving for home.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Nov 2011 12:07

Anujan wrote:Remember that Maulana Abdul Aziz? The Chief Mullah of Lal masjid who tried to escape in a Burkha and Pakis ended paying a huge price for invading his mosque? Guess what happened to his court case......

http://tribune.com.pk/story/285881/lal- ... our-cases/

Lal Masjid cleric acquitted in four cases

District courts acquitted the chief cleric of Lal Masjid in four of the 12 cases registered against him for crimes including challenging government writ by keeping illegal arms.

No higher court can convict these Islamists, leave alone the District Munsif court. Otherwise, all judges would end up in KSA. The interesting thing to watch would be whether the Punjab government goes in appeal against this acquittal.

aditya · Post by **aditya** » 01 Nov 2011 12:38

Attn: JEM

Several links in the header post of this Pakthread are incomplete.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 01 Nov 2011 13:06

Enquiry going on for local abduls' consumption.
Lingering uncertainties: Abbottabad commission quizzes foreign secretary

ISLAMABAD: The four-member commission looking into the US operation which killed Osama bin Laden summoned Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir on Monday.

The commission, headed by Justice (retd) Javed Iqbal, a former senior judge in the Supreme Court, questioned the foreign secretary in a meeting held behind closed doors.

It is believed they asked Bashir for his personal view of the incident in Abbottabad on May 2, which further strained relations between Pakistan and the US.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 01 Nov 2011 13:09

Anujan wrote:Remember that Maulana Abdul Aziz? The Chief Mullah of Lal masjid who tried to escape in a Burkha and Pakis ended paying a huge price for invading his mosque? Guess what happened to his court case......

http://tribune.com.pk/story/285881/lal- ... our-cases/

Lal Masjid cleric acquitted in four cases

District courts acquitted the chief cleric of Lal Masjid in four of the 12 cases registered against him for crimes including challenging government writ by keeping illegal arms.

Check out the comments section.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 01 Nov 2011 13:44

SSridhar wrote: No higher court can convict these Islamists, leave alone the District Munsif court. Otherwise, all judges would end up in KSA. The interesting thing to watch would be whether the Punjab government goes in appeal against this acquittal.

Fat chance...appeal if any will be for speedier acquittal on remaining charges...

It is the judges who have to leave the court room wearing burka's otherwise...

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 01 Nov 2011 14:27

Standard & Poor's rates Pakistan as B negative

WASHINGTON: Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's has rated Pakistan as B negative, citing the country's low-income economy, high public and external debt.

Pakistan's low-income economy, high public and external debt, structural fiscal weaknesses and significant political and security risks remain rating constraints, S&P said in a statement.

Observing that Pakistan continues to have donor support and adequate external liquidity, S&P affirmed the 'B-' long-term and 'C' short-term foreign and local currency sovereign ratings on Pakistan. "The stable outlook reflects adequate external liquidity, supported by donor commitments," it said.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 01 Nov 2011 14:39

India is BBB- .

S&P like others is a hog wash.... Don't bother...