J&K News and Discussion-2011

[chaanakya]

>>Babus' feedback would have little to do in such matters.

Don't be too sure chaanakya. Babu's feedback in this case may simply have been "silence", knowing what they surely knew. (

Yeah, that is what I meant.These reports would have been in the files ( esp IB and RAW reports) but would have been glossed over. Incompetence/negligence is one thing babus don't do in these matters. Once PM says, all that remains is to issue orders.
Real works start now while analysing reports. Trust me, this report would meet its water loo at appropriate places. One would need RTO to find it out what happened later.

[Prem]

[Coming to your suggestion, both TSP and KMs in the valley will gladly accept a partition of J&K. In fact, their "peaceful" solution through "talks" is precisely this. Partition the state. India keeps Jammu and Ladakh, while TSP gets the valley. TSP will sign on the dotted line tomorrow to such a "deal". Of course, their next course of action will proceed after a brief lull.

Can "Valley" sustain 150 Million people ? It will be filled to the brim before any Paki step into the terrirtiory.
Congressi, Babus etc all know their fate after this kind of fateful decision. Not only Pseudo but real secularism will also die in India and this time every Indian will be Punjabi. A little spark and Godhra ballons up by the million times.

[eklavya]

‘Keep J&K special, make LoC porous’: Interlocutors

Among the salient recommendations:

* The state’s status must be termed ‘special’ as with several states under Article 371.

* The governor should be appointed by the President but only picked out of three names received from the state Assembly.

* The nomenclatures of the governor and chief minister should remain the same in English but equivalent nomenclatures to be used solely in Urdu could be considered.

* No changes in Article 356 but if the government is to be dismissed, elections should be held within three months. And for cases involving imposing internal emergency, the state government must be consulted beforehand.

* Promotion of officers from all India services be gradually reduced in favour of officers from the state civil service without compromising efficiency.

* No further Central laws must be extended to the state by presidential order.

Question to experts in politics, constitutional law, etc:

1) What steps have to be taken to implement these recommendations e.g. can the PM just do it without consulting 'anyone' (like choosing the upholstery of the sofa in his meeting room), or does it require an amendment to the Constitution of India

2) Has the UPA Government committed (e.g. in Parliament) to only proceed on the basis of cross-party consensus?

Needless to say, these recommendations are ALL to be rejected and everything (within the law) must be done to oppose these recommendations.

[ramana]

First of all the interlocutors report was to MHA and the recommendations are those that need PM and Constitutional approval

Sort of asking for way to Cheen and getting directions to Massa.

[eklavya]

First of all the interlocutors report was to MHA and the recommendations are those that need PM and Constitutional approval

Sort of asking for way to Cheen and getting directions to Massa.

So, 2/3rd majority in Lok Sabha would be required to make changes of this nature?

Any party/politician who argues in favour of changes like these should be/will be shown the door by the electorate.

[RamaY]

Recapturing PoK came in yesterday's discussion. BK says (my recollection)

Muzaffarabad and PoK were not recaptured because the local populations would vote for Muslim Conference, leading to the defeat of Sheik Abdullah's NC. So JLN called off the advancement.

[Prem]

Recapturing PoK came in yesterday's discussion. BK says (my recollection)

Muzaffarabad and PoK were not recaptured because the local populations would vote for Muslim Conference, leading to the defeat of Sheik Abdullah's NC. So JLN called off the advancement.

We discussed this strategic mistake few years back. Sheikh Abdullah was not fond of Muzaffarbadis and his chum JN was of the similar view. IA should have captured it and sent the locals packing to the plains of Punjab. Puker's big chunck of water and electricity come from this area . Having the terrirtory under our control would have provided splendid handle to manage the Paki shenanigans.

[ramana]

Yes it was known that Sheikh Abdullah was one reason for calling the ceasefire to keep the Muzaffarabadis out of India. So protect the Sheikh's fiefdom JLN threw out many people and the land. Had India went for Muzaffarabad those guys who dont like India would have gone over to Lahore.

The Valley sepratists take heart from this old JLN way and think they too will also be thrown out along with the Valley. Hence the recalcitrant agitation.

This is a big consideration in their minds.

[RamaY]

You mean throwing baby (OA) with the bathwater (Cashmere)?

[sum]

Recapturing PoK came in yesterday's discussion. BK says (my recollection)

Muzaffarabad and PoK were not recaptured because the local populations would vote for Muslim Conference, leading to the defeat of Sheik Abdullah's NC. So JLN called off the advancement.

By this logic, we shouldnt have held onto Srinagar and places like Sopore also?

[Vikas]

Recapturing PoK came in yesterday's discussion. BK says (my recollection)

Muzaffarabad and PoK were not recaptured because the local populations would vote for Muslim Conference, leading to the defeat of Sheik Abdullah's NC. So JLN called off the advancement.

By same token, even Poonch and Rajouri should have been left behind.
I am not sure if SA was so smart to figure out his popularity in PoK areas while the fighting was going on and ask JLN to stop the army advance and JLN would have obliged so quickly. Why IA didn't advance to PoK is still a question to be answered. JLN was not after all such a peacenik as is made out on this forum.

[manjgu]

i think the reason the Armys advance was called off was because the approaches to these towns were being defended by regular units of PA under the overall command of a British officer. Mountabatten did not want regular IA fightin regular PA ( under british command). this to best of my knowledge was the real reason for the ceasefire.

[Airavat]

By same token, even Poonch and Rajouri should have been left behind.

Most of the places were being held by the J&K State Forces, who braved the Pakistani invaders till their ammunition ran out, or until they were reinforced by the Indian Army. So some places were held and others abandoned like Kotli.

Siege of Kotli

Meanwhile 1 Kumaon under Colonel Pritam Singh of the Indian Army crossed over from Kashmir via the Haji Pir Pass and entered Poonch Town where he coordinated efforts with Brigadier Kishan Singh for the defence of Punch. Col Baldev Singh who was a close relative of Maharaja Hari Singh requested for rescue team. MC Mahajan went to Delhi to insist on relief for Kotli; this relief was being held up for two reasons.

One was the newly installed Kashmir-based administration of Sheikh Abdullah that was not concerned about western Jammu since the inhabitants, both Hindus and Muslims, did not support his political party. The other were the British commanders of the Indian Army, anxious to prevent an all out India-Pakistan war that would wipe out Britain's strategic ally. They refused to provide adequate aid to the Indian commanders fighting in J&K so that western parts of Jammu, which were strategically crucial for the survival of agriculture in Pakistan, should not fall out of their ally's hands.

[hulaku]

Yes it was known that Sheikh Abdullah was one reason for calling the ceasefire to keep the Muzaffarabadis out of India. So protect the Sheikh's fiefdom JLN threw out many people and the land. Had India went for Muzaffarabad those guys who dont like India would have gone over to Lahore.

The simple reason that the Shiekh did not want Muzzfarabad to be a part of his Kashmir is because Muzzafarbad was Punjabi dominated. Infact even today Punjabi is widely spoken over there. Whenever you see the "PM of Azad Kashmir" speaking please note the Punjabi twinge in their accents.

The historical reason being that the Punjabi Mussalmans looked down upon the Kashmiri Mussalmans in the same way the Pakjabis of today look down upon the Pashtun, Balochi or Sindhi.

Infact the use of the term "Haato", a somewhat derogatory term for Kashmiri Muslims was supposedly coined by the Punjabi Mussalmans.

[hulaku]

By same token, even Poonch and Rajouri should have been left behind.
I am not sure if SA was so smart to figure out his popularity in PoK areas while the fighting was going on and ask JLN to stop the army advance and JLN would have obliged so quickly. Why IA didn't advance to PoK is still a question to be answered. JLN was not after all such a peacenik as is made out on this forum.

Poonch and Rajouri dont have a Punjabi population but instead have a mixture of Hindu Dogras, Muslim Gujjars and some Kashmiri Muslims. The Shiekh did not want any Punjabi element to be a part of his riyasat. he had this overwhelming fear of being dominated by the Punjabi Mussalmans if they became a part of his Kashmir.

The Dogras, Gujjars and Kashmiri Muslims were already a part of Kashmir so adding a few more would not have mattered.

[sum]

MKB thrashes the army and calls it quite a few names. More shocking than that is the fact that he served in the J&K unit of MEA and was privy to a lot of stuff!!!

The Delhi Durbar is crumbling

This is was the stunning thought that occured to me as I instinctively reached out for morning’s Hindu newspaper. The daily’s lead story had a cute little box showing the coloured cheeks of 5 handsome gentlemen who are to take the momentous decision as to whether the AFSPA should continue to prevail all over J&K and not.
They cannot apparently make up their mind because one of them needs more time to procrastinate further. To be sure, Defence Minister A.K.Antony’s stance is shocking. At least, he should take a stance like the army chief does (who has a closed mind on the issue). But all that Antony would say is this is a “very, very sensitive issue”, which would need “mature and cool” handling.
This is pure baloney and is an excuse for indecisiveness. What is this AFSPA about? Having held charge of the “Kashmir Unit” in the MEA for a number of years, having rubbed shoulders with colleagues in the MHA and MOD and in the intelligence agencies, I can claim some familiarity with the subject. Do you know, for instance, that there has been a committee called Justice B.P. Jeevan Reddy Committee (which even had an army general sitting as member) that looked into this business of AFSPA and that its report has been gathering dust for the past 6 years and 5 months only because the government thought it a “very very sensitive” report that deserves “mature and cool” handling?
Two, the real issue is that AFSPA gives the Army the powers to kill civilians with immunity. But then, if the security situation has improved palpably - as in many parts of J&K - where is the need to kill civilians at all? Three, Antony is being less than frank by overlooking that Omar Abdullah’s proposal is at least one year old and it is his Ministry that is sitting on it twiddling thumbs and proffering one lame excuse after another to block it.
As far as I can see, strong vested interests have developed. Corporate interests are being affected. This is not a turf battle, it is a veritable war over the “empire” that the army created in J&K through these tragic decades of our current history. Vacating the “empire” means great loss of “comforts”, perks and privileges. It is not like the shady Adarsh Housing Society scam, of course, but it is no less worse when a corporate body appropriates public resources on an epic scale.
My point is that this is simply not a matter for the army to have an opinion at all. This is a matter for the civilian government. The government declared an area as “disturbed” out of its wisdom and the government should decide if it is no longer “disturbed”. There has been a colossal failure of leadership when the government failed to do so even after years of tranquility in a certain area - as pointed out by Abdullah.
The government can always judge if the security situation can be handled without the “expertise” of the army. But it is not for the army to insist that its “expertise” is an imperative need. It is for the civilian government to decide whether Srinagar needs army’s “expertise” or whether Budgam may need army expertise in 2016 (where it hasn’t conducted a single operation for the past 5 years)? In Srinagar, by the way, one cannot recall when the army last operated at all.

Finally, this is a matter that has implications for India’s foreign policy at a juncture when things are looking up in the relations with Pakistan. Any forward movement in the normalization involves to some degree thoughtful initiatives on the Kashmir problem, pending a final solution in the fulness of time when a climate of trust is created.
Antony should not stand in the way. Give way, please, so that the nation can move on. Gandhiji would have advised him to do that. It is plain humaneness that our citizens should be allowed to live in dignity.

[rohitvats]

^^^With vermins and sh*t heads like MKB as diplomats and babus, is it any surprise that security and higher defence management in this country is in doldrums? What the fvck does he think the army is? Security Guards from a private agency who can be pulled in or out as per the wims and fancies of the landlord? It is a great tragedy that mother India has people like her to call as sons...god knows how much he would have compromised India's interest when he was in service with all his brilliance...

[Vikas]

By same token, even Poonch and Rajouri should have been left behind.

Most of the places were being held by the J&K State Forces, who braved the Pakistani invaders till their ammunition ran out, or until they were reinforced by the Indian Army. So some places were held and others abandoned like Kotli.

Siege of Kotli

Meanwhile 1 Kumaon under Colonel Pritam Singh of the Indian Army crossed over from Kashmir via the Haji Pir Pass and entered Poonch Town where he coordinated efforts with Brigadier Kishan Singh for the defence of Punch. Col Baldev Singh who was a close relative of Maharaja Hari Singh requested for rescue team. MC Mahajan went to Delhi to insist on relief for Kotli; this relief was being held up for two reasons.

One was the newly installed Kashmir-based administration of Sheikh Abdullah that was not concerned about western Jammu since the inhabitants, both Hindus and Muslims, did not support his political party. The other were the British commanders of the Indian Army, anxious to prevent an all out India-Pakistan war that would wipe out Britain's strategic ally. They refused to provide adequate aid to the Indian commanders fighting in J&K so that western parts of Jammu, which were strategically crucial for the survival of agriculture in Pakistan, should not fall out of their ally's hands.

Halaku ji, Acharya ji, The point I am trying to make is that PoK could not be reclaimed because

1. It was hard to push back PA beyond a certain point
2. Locals were more integrated with PA which was not the case in rest of J&K
3. Army lines were stretched
4. Mountabatten pushed Nehru

Lesson for India was that whosoever occupies the land has the de-facto ownership. World opinion be damned.

[Vikas]

^^ What was MKB's beef with Antony when he was choking on his own barf while writing this article.

Two, the real issue is that AFSPA gives the Army the powers to kill civilians with immunity.

On whose payroll this donkey is ? I mean this d!ckhead was in a position to influence political opinion and probably sat on files with request by defense forces to buy stuff. God knows how many such pests are still inside the tent.

[JE Menon]

>>Two, the real issue is that AFSPA gives the Army the powers to kill civilians with immunity.

And spare the ones with AIDS? That's some charge.

Or is his problem that the AFSPA gives the army powers to kill terrorists with impunity?

[Vikas]

Why don't those propagating removal of AFSPA live in Kashmir without Army protection for few years and then come back and talk to us.

JeM: The problem of his ilk is India herself and not the army and then we complain about rulers from the past.

[eklavya]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 738351.cms

AFSPA: Omar meets Army chief

NEW DELHI: J&K chief Omar Abdullah on Tuesday met Army chief General V K Singh over the partial withdrawal of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) from two to four districts in the strife-torn state.

On Monday, Omar Abdullah met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, UPA chief Sonia Gandhi, Union home minister P Chidambaram and finance minister Pranab Mukherjee to discuss withdrawal of the military law from some parts of the state.

The Centre, however, assured Omar Abdullah to wait for a few months before rushing into partial revocation of the AFSPA in his state

[vishvak]

>>Two, the real issue is that AFSPA gives the Army the powers to kill civilians with immunity.

Or is his problem that the AFSPA gives the army powers to kill terrorists with impunity?

Can these types be sued by the army? May be that will drill in some sense...

[eklavya]

^^^With vermins and sh*t heads like MKB as diplomats and babus, is it any surprise that security and higher defence management in this country is in doldrums? What the fvck does he think the army is? Security Guards from a private agency who can be pulled in or out as per the wims and fancies of the landlord? It is a great tragedy that mother India has people like her to call as sons...god knows how much he would have compromised India's interest when he was in service with all his brilliance...

Rohit, an 'old man' (****) wanted the 25th anniversary of the 1971 victory marked (in Dec 1996) with a parade in N Delhi. The serving Foreign Secretary at the time raised an objection that it may upset Pakistan. The 'old man' asked the FS is he was afraid of Pakistan ("aap darpok hain?"). The parade went ahead; I sat next to the Bangladesh military attache!

[Virupaksha]

Halaku ji, Acharya ji, The point I am trying to make is that PoK could not be reclaimed because

1. It was hard to push back PA beyond a certain point
2. Locals were more integrated with PA which was not the case in rest of J&K
3. Army lines were stretched
4. Mountabatten pushed Nehru

Lesson for India was that whosoever occupies the land has the de-facto ownership. World opinion be damned.

1) Officially PA wasnt involved, Nehru couldnt/did not want to make use of it for even media management for kargil. - clear lack of will and politics
2) Could be, but a professinal army in anti local forces was THE norm those days. - clear lack of will
3) I will have to call bull on the bolded part. This was the same army which just two years ago was fighting in singapore AND turkey AND libya all at the same time and defending India and Burma to add to boot.

and now less than a 100 km lines of communication suddenly becomes streeeeechhhhhhhed?? that too when it is fighting for its own land? Was it difficult, yes but it had the experience of fighting in jungles, deserts, mountains all 1000s of kms from their home bases just 2 years ago all at the same time.
Indian army hadnt fully demobilized yet from world war II and though pakistan army elements were fighting in Kashmir, it had more than half of tribal levees. - clear lack of will
4) politics

All I see in those four explanations is lack of will and oppurtunistic politics overriding national interests.
May be there are better/hidden explanations, may be nehru was the epitome of crass politics and so had no will and was playing politics or may be nehru was a duffer with all fury in voice but empty in strength as shown in 62- but those explanations do not even touch the real reasons.

[CRamS]

God knows how many such pests are still inside the tent.

You don't know? Come on, you don't even have to think hard. I assume you read my posts .

[Hari Seldon]

To think the likes of MK Al-badr kumar retired 'honorably' from service whereas the likes of Shri Shyam Saran had to leave over-ruled by the likes of SSM. Truly Dilli doob ast.

[svenkat]

Harji,
What do you mean 'by likes of SSM'.We can have genuine disagreements with the world view of MMS/SSM.But they too are men who love the nation and are in nations service.Dr MMS is the nominee of UPA elected by popular mandate and SSM is a career civil servant.

I too have felt bitterness,FWI am worth,against MMS/SSM.But we are constrained by our polity,interpretations of past,diversity etc.I do feel strongly when men in service of our nation are called 'names'.

Nobody is stopping BJP and likeminded parties from pursuing a Hindu agenda after winning a popular mandate and promoting a strong polity based on unity.

[Vikas]

God knows how many such pests are still inside the tent.

You don't know? Come on, you don't even have to think hard. I assume you read my posts .

CRamS ji, it is easier to identify leanings of political person in power but how do you know the thought process of Babudom.
That is what I was alluding toand these are thepeople who provide point of view to the leaders and do the ground work.

[Vikas]

but those explanations do not even touch the real reasons.

Pray tell us what the real reason was?

[rohitvats]

^^^This logistics argument wrt Indian Army and 1947-48 is a non-starter. IA was just getting into gear - but for the foresight and boldness of Cariappa and Thimayya, even Kargil and Ladakh would not have been with India. We can discuss this more if you want.

[skher]

As peace returns to J&K we should seriously start thinking about dividing it into three states. This will
reduce the space further for separatists to play with.

Ramana is right in that we should wait to see how things evolve after US withdrawal before revoking AFSPA.

Getting worked up over AR or PM is going to do nothing but increase your BP. As long as they are unable to
set the agenda on the ground they should be ignored.

Kher and Raina,
What is the situation wrt return of KPs to the valley?

Not likely. for next two generations.Yearly visits might increase. In 2002-03, many sold their ancestral houses; when first such talk of return was done.So, this is indicative of interest.The state must sustain without Indian taxpayer's money.
First and foremost, refugees in Jammu and elsewhere in camps must feel confident to return such that migrant quota is no longer practically necessary. The security situation must improve and at least nominally gain a local culture.

Also the below quote should say it clearly:

VikasRaina

Joined: 03 Dec 2005 02:40 am
Posts: 1867
Location: वही सबसे तेज चलता है, जो अकेला चलता है

[skher]

‘Keep J&K special, make LoC porous’: Interlocutors

Among the salient recommendations:



* No further Central laws must be extended to the state by presidential order.

Right can we have this every where, what kind of stuff are these guys sponsoring.

Of course.Yes, we can - when OA agrees to :-

.No further State laws can be extended to the Ladakh Hill Council (Leh, Dras, Kargil) nor Jammu, via any cabinet executive order or ordinance or Art 370; without the assent of the said administrations.

.Also, AFSPA cannot be extended or removed by state intervention in UHQ in any of the regions.State Police to be unarmed, with batons/stab vest.

.If J&K insists on special purpose vehicle, then Jammu & Ladakh will double special.

.Own medicine/counsel is always bitter.

[skher]

+1
Trifurcation of J&K on religious line is to endorse the idea of Partition which would legitimise separation on religious grounds and India would be ripe for several more partitions. And of course TSp would claim natural inheritance to the Valley. It would not guarantee stoppage of terror activities as 1971 is still stuck in their a$$.

That is history.TSp itself is breaking up,saar.Bankrupt Teaspoon cannot get the valley - Northern Areas/AJK also keen to join Indian economy.KMs are fed up,want jobs.So it's largely India for them, for now and more autonomy doesn't result in partitions with the AFSPA intact.The crores become visible.Also, less state rhetoric and more central dispersal efficiency.IMVHO, make every single district in Jammu and Kashmir have an autonomous hill council*.

Dr. Karan Singh has gone on record on a DD interview to state the peoples and culture of three regions have been markedly different and have very little in common, other than a common rule 150 years ago.


*Devolution of authority(multifurcation),different from trifurcation, into first; three developmental assemblies and then autonomous councils in all districts is not wrong.Already prevalent in Northeast. The unitary structure and boundaries of the state is still preserved without affecting the day-to-day affairs of people like implementation of public health,horticulture,roads,supplies, education, renewable power, waste management etc. Parliament can amend the constitution and make Sixth schedule universally applicable, through with its approval. The inefficiency and deadwood in state apparatus will be exposed to CAG audits .Chief minister can be directly elected and have his cabinet approved by state legislature; by amending rules of business.[

JMT

[Vikas]

+1
Trifurcation of J&K on religious line is to endorse the idea of Partition which would legitimise separation on religious grounds and India would be ripe for several more partitions. And of course TSp would claim natural inheritance to the Valley. It would not guarantee stoppage of terror activities as 1971 is still stuck in their a$$.

That is history.TSp itself is breaking up,saar.Bankrupt Teaspoon cannot get the valley - Northern Areas/AJK also keen to join Indian economy.KMs are fed up,want jobs.So it's largely India for them, for now and more autonomy doesn't result in partitions with the AFSPA intact.The crores become visible.Also, less state rhetoric and more central dispersal efficiency.IMVHO, make every single district in Jammu and Kashmir have an autonomous hill council*.

Dr. Karan Singh has gone on record on a DD interview to state the peoples and culture of three regions have been markedly different and have very little in common, other than a common rule 150 years ago.


*Devolution of authority(multifurcation),different from trifurcation, into first; three developmental assemblies and then autonomous councils in all districts is not wrong.Already prevalent in Northeast. The unitary structure and boundaries of the state is still preserved without affecting the day-to-day affairs of people like implementation of public health,horticulture,roads,supplies, education, renewable power, waste management etc. Parliament can amend the constitution and make Sixth schedule universally applicable, through with its approval. The inefficiency and deadwood in state apparatus will be exposed to CAG audits .Chief minister can be directly elected and have his cabinet approved by state legislature; by amending rules of business.[

JMT

+1 to that
Actually the state of J&K is a artificial entity where all the three regions are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. So why hold people of Jammu, Ladakh and KP's in fetters just to pay indirect Jaziya. If it was not for Maharaja Gulab Singh, probably Jammu,Kashmir and Ladakh would have gone on different trajectory.
Still what is the harm in splitting the state. At least Jammu, Ladakh and KP's would throw away this yoke of Kashmiri Muslim domination since 1947 and blackmail and we will have 3 out of 4 regions which will be completely Indic.
Why is splitting of state is considered akin to handing it over to TSP on a platter ?
Bottom line is that with splitting of state, you are giving lesser breathing space to terrorists to operate .

Infact I would go further and suggest that GoI should split Kashmir too to create parochial feelings among denizen of KM's. Let them fight over the capital rather than fighting the Indian state.

[Pratyush]

MKB,

Under any nationalist establishment would have to loose his pension for writing the way he is writing. But under this dispensation where treason is the fashion. He gets away with it.

While the patriots get attacked in the middle of the night and arrested preemptively.

[chaanakya]

Infact I would go further and suggest that GoI should split Kashmir too to create parochial feelings among denizen of KM's. Let them fight over the capital rather than fighting the Indian state.

Initially I also thought on the same line. But it would have unintended consequences. First of all, you need to remove 370. Second you need to get Assembly resolution. Third we still consider POK as part of India and 24 seats are kept vacant in Assembly so it would be an issue if you split. For extending the law such problems do not arise but when division is concerned that would a factor. Further if there is split on religious ground you can further imagine the consequences. Also they have separate constituion. IOA guarantees integrity of the state. Only few subjects are extended to Union Govt which included Foreign Affairs, defence etc but not the territorial division.
So this must be thought through.

[svinayak]

+1 to that
Actually the state of J&K is a artificial entity where all the three regions are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. So why hold people of Jammu, Ladakh and KP's in fetters just to pay indirect Jaziya. If it was not for Maharaja Gulab Singh, probably Jammu,Kashmir and Ladakh would have gone on different trajectory.
Still what is the harm in splitting the state. At least Jammu, Ladakh and KP's would throw away this yoke of Kashmiri Muslim domination since 1947 and blackmail and we will have 3 out of 4 regions which will be completely Indic.
Why is splitting of state is considered akin to handing it over to TSP on a platter ?
Bottom line is that with splitting of state, you are giving lesser breathing space to terrorists to operate .

When the region is split it loses the natural social engineering of the Indian society going on for 1000 years.
This natural social engineering retains the supramacy of the Indic memes and also it will IMO create the right solutions to bring back the muslims into Indic

This process will be inturrupted by seperation and partition.
TSP is a result of this partition and also help by the western sponserers has lost its social continuity.
It needs to be broken down to move forward Indian indic assimilation

J&K is the oldest among Indian society and we can bring back the old social setup. It will take time may be 100 years

[chetak]

MKB,

Under any nationalist establishment would have to loose his pension for writing the way he is writing. But under this dispensation where treason is the fashion. He gets away with it.

While the patriots get attacked in the middle of the night and arrested preemptively.

This guy is being herded and encouraged.

There has to be a payoff and it's somewhere abroad in terms of visa, cushy job, green card, citizenship, college scholarship for some one such bandicoots are always interested in.

[vishvak]

MKB,

Under any nationalist establishment would have to loose his pension for writing the way he is writing. But under this dispensation where treason is the fashion. He gets away with it.

While the patriots get attacked in the middle of the night and arrested preemptively.

This guy is being herded and encouraged.

There has to be a payoff and it's somewhere abroad in terms of visa, cushy job, green card, citizenship, college scholarship for some one such bandicoots are always interested in.

Unless the guy is sued, and matter taken to the Supreme Court, these types will find no discipline. It is important that he is sued, according to me, the court decisions will add further clarity on in preventing cheap talk.