Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 31 Oct 2011

[rajanb]

Thank you! It appears I was correct in one previous occasion as well. I had a discussion on an imminent coup in Pakistan on previous avatar of this daaaga. I was poked fun but it appears I was right. I am growing in confidence on my sources.
There is no news like bad news! :mrgreen

Actually no noose is bad news, any noose from Pork Land-e-stan is good news.

Memogate is becoming ineresting. Pakis busy back stabbing each other. But praising each other face to face. A house divided goes Kaboom!

Times Now had Bhullar, ex-chief of RAW, who said memogate would have a negative effect on pyar dosti with the porkis.

Paki Lady Jugni said memogate is showing the Army and ISI in bad light. Heritage Foundation says coup cannot happen because then all aid grinds to a zilch.

And life goes on. Nothing like chai biskoot sessions. At least during these sessions the poor Porkis get to relax? Hain ji?

[Prem]

Pakistan Ka Maqtlab Kya Hai
In Quest to Become World's Most Ridiculous Nation, Pakistan Bans Make-Believe Curse Words from Texting

the mere thought that your children (or some dude you don't know and will never meet) might be texting such filth as "smagma," "wuutang," "trisexual," and "carruth," your long trial is over. If you're Pakistani. And unrealistic. As of today, the Pakistan Telecommunications Authority has ordered mobile phone companies to filter its list of 1,600 "offensive and obscene" words, according to AFP. Many of the words are in fact obscene. But a ridiculous number seem to have been copied off English language t-shirts spotted in the Tokyo subway. The many, many ways that this can screw up texting in Pakistan (aside from really tongue balling the dixie dikes who want to giehn one another) is to appreciably slow down delivery of messages, slow down the system as a whole, filter the wrong messages and get companies and people in legal trouble based on a typo or (almost certain) misunderstanding.
Congratulations, Pakistani Telecommunications Authority. You're really a bunch of butchbabes.

[Prem]

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2011/11/ ... .html?_r=1
Taliban, Pakistan Said to Have Started Peace Talks

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan's Taliban movement, a major security threat to the country, is holding exploratory peace talks with the government, a senior Taliban commander and mediators told Reuters on Monday. The United States, the source of billions of dollars of aid vital for Pakistan's military and feeble economy, is unlikely to look kindly on peace talks with the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), which it has labeled a terrorist group. The discussions are focused on the South Waziristan region on the Afghan border and could be expanded to try to reach a comprehensive deal if progress is made. An ethnic Pashtun tribal mediator described the talks as "very difficult." Pakistani military and government officials were not immediately available for comment. "Yes, we have been holding talks, but this is just an initial phase. We will see if there is a breakthrough," said the senior Taliban commander, who asked not to be identified. "Right now, this is at the South Waziristan level. If successful, we can talk about a deal for all the tribal areas," he said, referring to Pashtun lands along the Afghan border. The TTP, allied with the Afghan Taliban movement fighting U.S.-led NATO forces in Afghanistan, is entrenched in the unruly areas along the porous frontier. Pakistan's government and military have said they had no idea bin Laden was in Pakistan and have yet to explain the intelligence gap. The operation enraged Pakistan's military, which branded it a violation of sovereignty and then reduced cooperation on intelligence critical for U.S. efforts to stabilize the region as it winds down combat operations in Afghanistan. "The U.S. won't be happy," said Rahimullah Yusufzai, a Pakistani expert on the Taliban. "If there is less pressure from Pakistan on the militants then they (the Pakistani Taliban) will turn their attention to Afghanistan." Speculation on peace talks has been rife since the government said in a September all-party conference on a crisis in relations with the United States that it would attempt negotiations with militants to bring peace. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said during a visit to Islamabad last month that "The timing is linked to the change in approach in Afghanistan, where there is now a willingness to negotiate," Mansur Khan Mehsud, of Pakistan's FATA Research Center think tank, said of the preliminary talks in Pakistan. "The thinking here is, if it can happen in Afghanistan, why can't we talk peace with the Taliban here in Pakistan?" Since bin Laden's death, the TTP has vowed to attack Western targets abroad.
"We never wanted to fight to begin with," said the senior Taliban commander. "Our aim was to rid Afghanistan of foreign forces. But the Pakistani government, by supporting America, left us no choice but to fight." One of the tribal elders involved in the talks said they were at a "very difficult" stage.
"We have had three rounds in the last two months, but there seems to be no result," he said. "It is too difficult to say if there will be a breakthrough, but we are moving in the right direction."

[ramana]

One reason why Imran Khan is getting more limelight is to reduce the TTP's fury when the TSP has a nominal Pathan as a leader.

[SBajwa]

by Parsuram
To all those still in the process of begetting sons and daughters, I can suggest a tradition from my family, but only if you have more than one son. Take one of your sons to a Gurudwara near you, and have him grow up in the Sikh tradition. This was common among Hindu families in Punjab, and reviving it will go a long way towards healing a rift which can best be healed with ties of blood. Its not as if you will loose a son. He will be a part of your family and live and grow up in your home, just that he will follow certain Sikh teachings and traditions. And he will also follow Hindu traditions in your home. Check it out. May be just add "Singh" as a middle name for inspiration.

by Carl
^^^ +1.
India could use a lot more GurSikhs. Gurudwara culture for sons combines so much beneficial training and attitude with religious devotion to the Lord, which is part of Indian life anyway. Its probably a better method than a year of compulsory military service, which many neighboring Asian countries enforce.

Don't count on it. when Guru Gobind singh created Khalsa he expected his soldiers to

1. Be totally fit and have a regular workout.
2. Have training of weapons.
3. Be ready to protect anybody who needs protection.


But thesedays I see lots 500 lbs khalsa who can barely move but do have all the required tenets
of Kesh, Kangha, Kara, Kirpan and Kachchehra.

First thing is to be physically Fit.
Second thing is to take a Vow to upheld the Dharma.

If you are not physically fit how can you take a vow to upheld the Dharma when you can't even protect yourself.

Most of the Gurdwaras these days are same as other religious places.

1. Rites and rituals.
2. Singing of Gurbani.
3. Reading of Guru Granth Sahib.

but the important part of Practice is missing. Preaching is fine but Practice has to be there before preaching.

Guru Nanak himself only sang gurbani in the evening while all day he toiled in a farm. He says

1. Kirat Kar (Work)
2. Naam Japo (meditate)
3. Vand Chhako (share)

Guru Gobind Singh only added the military/soldierly aspect to the Khalsa but there are very few real Khalsa today.

[RamaY]

One reason why Imran Khan is getting more limelight is to reduce the TTP's fury when the TSP has a nominal Pathan as a leader.

So slowly but steadily Pakjabis are coming under Pathan rule

Pakistan as strategic depth for Afghanistan!

[shravan]

2 Pakistani soldiers, 20 Taliban die in clashes in NW Pakistan

November 21 (Xinhua) -- Two Pakistani army captains were killed and eight others were injured in clashes with Taliban militants in the country's northwest tribal area on Monday, local media reported.

Dawn TV reported that 20 Taliban militants were also killed in the clashes in the Upper Orakzai tribal region.

[Lalmohan]

i am now convinced that the pak telecom censorship list is a practical joke being played on them by some bored CIA agents who are responsible for managing the monitoring of their network - you can't make this stuff up

[shravan]

Pakistani tells Belgian trial he killed his sister

MONS, Belgium — Belgium's first "honour killing" trial opened on a note of high drama Monday when a young Pakistani man suddenly confessed to the murder of one sister and the attempted murder of another.

[Agnimitra]

Most of the Gurdwaras these days are same as other religious places.

1. Rites and rituals.
2. Singing of Gurbani.
3. Reading of Guru Granth Sahib.

but the important part of Practice is missing. Preaching is fine but Practice has to be there before preaching.

Guru Nanak himself only sang gurbani in the evening while all day he toiled in a farm. He says

1. Kirat Kar (Work)
2. Naam Japo (meditate)
3. Vand Chhako (share)

Guru Gobind Singh only added the military/soldierly aspect to the Khalsa but there are very few real Khalsa today.

Sandeep ji, I agree, but perhaps an infusion of new blood and proselytization could have the effect of reigniting the original spirit. Already in India these days the culture of physical fitness and good work ethics is catching on, but it is happening in the context of Westernization/Bollywoodization. Indic cultures like Sikhism need to step in and harness the new trends and enthusiasm, and yoke it to dharma. Forget about ordinary congregations - some entrepreneuring and enlightened people can start something as simple as a Sikhized Boy-Scout movement.

I am trying to work with friends and certain organizations to create educational institutions that incorporate some of these elements. "Sanskritization" is one aspect, and "Kshatra" is another aspect, for students who show certain propensities. Even if ordinary Sikh congregations are not forthcoming or well-tuned to your ideals above, we do hope to incorporate some level of exposure to military training (including use of modern weapons) and ethics in the future. Its just that the GurSikh tradition provides a such an exemplary Dharmic context for such training, ready-made and historically still very accessible.

[ramana]

Can we take talk about Sikh religion to the right thread in GDF please?

[Prem]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10 ... dangerroom
China Wants Bases an Endless War in Pakistan

The Asia Times Online story smells like a calculated Islamabad leak, especially since it comes on the heels of last week’s demand by Secretary of State that Pakistan cut off its terrorist proxies in the Haqqani Network. And since the Pakistanis want China to build a naval base on its territory, the Chinese even have leverage to move into the tribal areas. You can expect some thumbsucking think-tank type to lament the decline of American power any minute now.But if the Chinese really are headed to tribal Pakistan, then — as Chris Partlow once said to Marlo Stanfield on The Wire — this is one of those good problems.Fighting for a decade in central Asia has a way of obscuring something basic. The center of that war lies in tribal Pakistan, which is battered by U.S. drone strikes, but the U.S. has fought an exhausting war in the larger area that it’s finding difficult to satisfactorily conclude. That gives the Pakistanis a huge amount of leverage to get U.S. aid — and, accordingly, a disincentive to actually fighting terrorism, lest the aid stop when the mission concludes.
This Central Asian preoccupation — 10 years of war that has cost the U.S. hundreds of billions — has redounded decisively to China’s advantage. The U.S. funded its central Asian wars not buy raising taxes, but by borrowing money from China, and it’s only now turning to the problem of how to reduce its crippling debt. Meanwhile, China, the world’s second largest economy, is ever more assertive in the Pacific, and is modernizing its military with its first stealth jet and anti-ship missile. (Although the U.S. is way more militarily powerful.)

Taken together, all this has U.S. policymakers declaring America’s long excursion in the Mideast and South Asia to be a distraction worth concluding in order to refocus on the vital Asia-Pacific region.And here come the Chinese, ready to take on two birds with one stone.Think about it. The Chinese entangle themselves in a region where the U.S. found itself exhausted in an inconclusive effort. Since it’s China’s backyard, the domestic and internal military pressures to keep fighting there will likely be great. China can batter the residual terrorist presence in tribal Pakistan — its brutal Army will kill U.S. enemies as well as its own, if history is any indication — and also experience the pleasures of dealing with Islamabad, selling it weapons, and being responsible for Pakistani security. Surely Beijing will enjoy an intransigent ally that rejects its advice while keeping its money. And if China really wants a larger role in global affairs, tribal Pakistan is the most advantageous place for the U.S. to pass the baton.
And since Pakistan often says it wants the U.S. to leave it alone, let’s see how it enjoys taking yes for an answer, and losing its American aid. The U.S. can still launch drone strikes into Pakistan as insurance — as it keeps for itself drone launchpads like Jalalabad or Kandahar during and after the Afghanistan troop withdrawals. Surely the Chinese will be generous patrons, since they’re rich and they like funding infrastructure.
Meanwhile the U.S. can draw closer with India — the subcontinent’s economic, technological and military superpower, which both Pakistan and China distrust — and its Southeast Asian friends like South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Singapore and increasingly Vietnam. The U.S. doesn’t even have to wage a cold war with China. It just needs to let the Chinese have the bases it says it wants in an armpit of the globe, covering our withdrawal from it.Speaking of that cold war, there are many, many people in the U.S., China and Pakistan that want to see it proceed, whether out of paranoia or shortsightedness. From Washington’s perspective, a China-Pakistani alliance is a godsend, allowing the U.S. to cease its expensive, bloody Great Game in South Asia and letting a new player compete for a dubious prize. In the words of The Wire’s other great strategist, Marla Daniels: You cannot lose if you refuse to play.

[SBajwa]

Carl,

Lets continue the discussion in GDF sikh-history thread.

thanks

[svinayak]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10 ... dangerroom
China Wants Bases an Endless War in Pakistan
Speaking of that cold war, there are many, many people in the U.S., China and Pakistan that want to see it proceed, whether out of paranoia or shortsightedness. From Washington’s perspective, a China-Pakistani alliance is a godsend, allowing the U.S. to cease its expensive, bloody Great Game in South Asia and letting a new player compete for a dubious prize. In the words of The Wire’s other great strategist, Marla Daniels: You cannot lose if you refuse to play.

Actually there are many in US who want Pakistan and China to wage war with India. They have supported Pakistan in Kashmir.

[ramana]

Wonder if Memogate is really sting op to get rid of dus percenti by looking like injured guardians of at the gate!
HH might have been entrapped by agent provocateur Ijaz working for ISI.

If HH wasn't bakrafied it would have led to duspercenti going and be a disguised coup.

[Prem]

Sindh might explore its connection with Hind if Duspercenti is sent back to his Pind in Sindh. Pakistan Khappe is conditional on the certain privileges enjoyed by few Khaas Sindhois. Dus numbri might look like his Numbers but a survivor and knows when and how to maneuver.
I am sure ISI knows about the early this year meeting between Bilawal and Bugti in Switzerland under the protection of Paki friends .

[Cosmo_R]

HH might have been entrapped by agent provocateur Ijaz working for ISI.

Ijaz and James Woolsey are partners (in a business sense ). You may be closer to the mark than you think.

[ramana]

my thoughts were triggered by rajanb syaing coup not possible as funds get cutoff. then how to remove duspercenti? Well accuse him of plot to defame the kabila guards. HH fell hook, line and sinker into Ijaz's entrapment. But at same time US hand is also shown.

Now speculating here.

What if India got wind of memogate and decided to play a hand by shoring up 'honorable' Gilani and Duspercenti thinking US is going make clean break with the sordid past?

Hence the MMS statements which dont make sense.

[Satya_anveshi]

One thing I have not seen folks discuss is how corrupt (and more importantly on what price) even the high offices in US are and what all those testimonials in the congressional hearings mean.

So, a lure of $xxxM just if the source is right can make Adm. MM say that jihadis are "veritable" arm of ISI which is like calling sky is blue on a clear day. And just because all parties didn't get a cut out of those $$, people don't endorse those views and are retracted?

Did anyone ask if MM still stands by his statements or he has recallection issues? What's the credibility of MM now?

[ramana]

Who is MM?

[Satya_anveshi]

admiral sabeh.

[Cosmo_R]

@Ramana^^^: Anything is possible and we can get dazed by the enigmas within riddles. Short version is that ex company types want to keep up business relationships with eyesi. O'Hanlon is in the same vein. Diamonds are still a girl's best friend. It's still about money for retirement.

On MMS statements, I am reminded of the New Coke/Classic Coke fiasco which was dubbed a creative coup. The response from Coke (after new Coke failed) was: " "We are not that dumb, and we are not that smart."

The patron Saint of PMO is still Mediocrites (bro of Socrates). IMHO irrelevant. 'Tactical brilliance' prevails.

[Cosmo_R]

Who is MM?

Mickey 'Mouse' Mullen

[SSridhar]

One reason why Imran Khan is getting more limelight is to reduce the TTP's fury when the TSP has a nominal Pathan as a leader.

Ramana, this Taliban sympathizer will make matters easy for them. From my earlier post on this issue,

The point to note is that after Mawdudi died, the JI passed on to Pashtun hands. The other significant Islamist Deobandi organization, Jama'at-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI) has always been a Pashtun-based organization. After Bear Trap was launched, these two gained immense prominence among the masses and the Establishment alike and have not looked back since then. It will be in the fitness of things if a Pashtun becomes the Prime Minister, the first ever, when the PA wholeheartedly subscribes to the JI/JUI brands of Islamism.

[parsuram]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/10 ... dangerroom
China Wants Bases an Endless War in Pakistan
Speaking of that cold war, there are many, many people in the U.S., China and Pakistan that want to see it proceed, whether out of paranoia or shortsightedness. From Washington’s perspective, a China-Pakistani alliance is a godsend, allowing the U.S. to cease its expensive, bloody Great Game in South Asia and letting a new player compete for a dubious prize. In the words of The Wire’s other great strategist, Marla Daniels: You cannot lose if you refuse to play.

Actually there are many in US who want Pakistan and China to wage war with India. They have supported Pakistan in Kashmir.

And there are many in the US, prc and the paki who will be ashtonished as to how fast the action comes to a halt. The moment IA is asked to defend against two nuke armed maniacs, it will demand ability to use nukes, and the PM-whoever- will either part with necessary codes or be left with no army. Manikshaw in spring of 71, when the paki cracked down on the beedis, and IG wanted war almost immediately, made demands that he got from her. Same situation, same level of ultimatum, with same results, I'm sure. Predictably. As soon as hostilities begin in this paki + the prcees on India war, the paki will brandish it nukes. That will be all IA will need to launch first strikes against the prcee's hi value targets, HK for starters. The dam prc will fold before any more damage is done. As for the paki, like the major at my NDA interview said about my comandant at the Sainik School resigning when Krishna Menon did after '62 - "when the monkey goes, his tail also goes". If the prcees are dumb enough to gang up with the barbaric paki against India, they will know how India will react - that will be a "rang they basanti" moment for India, there ever was one. If the prcee does not fore see that, then they will deserve what happens to all their progress since the past 40 years.

Acharya ji: The prc has to see as to the profit/loss ledger is in any war with India. IMHO, For the next decade or so, the loss dominates. The ledger will probably balance around 2020. India has to arrange for the paki to dissapear by then, bringing about a stable balance between the prcee and India.

[Satya_anveshi]

Not bad interview at all (grilling?); Good job by Burkha Butt on the questions.

Transcripts:
UNDTV interview with Mansoor Ijaz

[SSridhar]

Haqqani wants Ijaz's records probed

Pakistan's Ambassador to the U.S. Hussain Haqqani maintained a low profile for the second day in Islamabad on Monday, preferring to speak through his wife, legislator Farahnaz Ispahani, who demanded an investigation into the phone records of Pakistani-American businessman Mansoor Ijaz whose allegations have authored the “Memogate” chapter in contemporary Pakistani history.

In a brief interaction with the media, Ms. Ispahani, who is an adviser to President Asif Ali Zardari, said her husband was prepared to face an enquiry into Mr. Ijaz's allegation that he had sent a memo at Mr. Haqqani's behest to the former Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mike Mullen, seeking Washington's intervention to pre-empt a military takeover after the American raid in Abbottabad to take out al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

Describing Mr. Ijaz as a citizen of another country, she said his allegations made her believe that he was working against Pakistan's democracy. Stating that her husband was ready for an investigation and prepared to appear before a court in Pakistan or the U.S., the Member of the National Assembly added that if the party leadership allowed them, the couple would like to file a libel suit against Mr. Ijaz who, according to her, was changing his statement almost on a daily basis.

Further, Ms. Ispahani said, her husband would meet the civil and military leadership of the country either on Monday or Tuesday. He is said to have informally met Mr. Zardari but there was no official word. Mr. Haqqani and his supporters point out that the memo was on a plain sheet of paper and unsigned, though Mr. Ijaz counters this defence by describing it as a “non-paper”.

[arun]

The American attempt to court “Major Non-NATO Ally”, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, while simultaneously propping up the Islamic Republic’s claim of being an “enlightened moderate” nation rather than an Islamist infested hell hole by using the services of a hip hop dance troupe, falls flat on its face .

A few days back the hip hop group was detained for stoking the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s deep rooted paranoia particularly about the intentions of war on terror “ally” the US:

US hip-hop band briefly detained for taking ‘sensitive’ footage

All paranoia was apparently not set aside by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Punjabi dominated “Deep State” who have now arranged that the function of the hip-hop troupe was not granted permission to perform in the capital of Pakistani Punjab, namely Lahore:

US concert scrapped over security issue

[abhishek_sharma]

Jim Jones was secret courier in “memogate” scandal

[shiv]

US hip-hop band briefly detained for taking ‘sensitive’ footage

Why the fug would a US hip hop band want to persorm in Pakistan of all places? death wish?

Some answers:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/ ... LW20111115

U.S. tries "hip hop" diplomacy in Pakistan

"I definitely think the State Department's initiative to soften the image of Americans and America in Pakistan is working," said Asad Jafri, a founder of the FEW Collective.

But, he added: "I think now we're realizing as Americans that we can't always export -- as we do so well -- culture and other things and say, 'Hey, this is the kind of music we're listing to in America. It's great, it's wonderful, you should listen to it too and maybe emulate it'."

Jafri was born to Pakistani parents in Kuwait but taken to America's Midwest aged 10 when the 1991 Gulf War broke out. He said he grew up hating his Pakistani heritage.

"It was something we were made fun of for being," he said. But as he discovered more of his heritage, he found common themes between American and Pakistani musical forms.

"I see a trajectory between even traditional qawwali music and hip hop," he said.

[rajanb]

my thoughts were triggered by rajanb syaing coup not possible as funds get cutoff. then how to remove duspercenti? Well accuse him of plot to defame the kabila guards. HH fell hook, line and sinker into Ijaz's entrapment. But at same time US hand is also shown.

Now speculating here.

What if India got wind of memogate and decided to play a hand by shoring up 'honorable' Gilani and Duspercenti thinking US is going make clean break with the sordid past?

Hence the MMS statements which dont make sense.

In the interview with Ijaz, by BD of NDTV, and the subsequent panel discussion, Three things became evident to me.

a) I admired Ijaz for his rather smooth, self-assured and quick responses. He had an answer fpr everything thrown at him, in spite of the fact that BD parroted the term "if we were to believe you" (or words to that effect, which normally would have put a person of lesser oratorial skills off or angry.)

b) Jugni, from Paki side seemed to imply that, the subjugation of civil government was not welcome in the Paki polity. That the Paki parl had a golden opportunity to have reprimanded Pasha and Kiya post OBL, but failed to do so. Nonetheless the current Paki SC would not give in to legitimisng a Khaki coup.

c) Bhullar was of the opinions that now India would have to rething pyar dosti because at the end of it all the Paki Govt. did not have the guts to place the generals in their place. So was pyar dosti with the civil govt. of any value because the generals would still be calling the shots.

Overall, it seemed that these are moves, albeit weak, to contain the Generals in their cantonments.

How it plays out? Toss a coin.

[Satya_anveshi]

Here's the timeline of the MI/MH fiasco:

May 01, 2011 - Bin laden attack concluded
May 09, 2011 - MI purportedly approached by HH
May 10, 2011 - Memo purportedy delivered; acknolwedged
May 11, 2011 - MM met with Paki officials including intelligence sources; (according to MI)

Sept 11, 2011 - Attack on US troops injuring 77
Sept 13, 2011 - another attack on US embassy
Sept 22, 2011 - MM testimony; says credible intelligence that pak was behind Sept 13 attack and the "veritable arm of ISI" statement
Sept 28, 2011 - White House declines to endorse MM's statement

Oct 10 2011 - MI publishes first oped in FT (Time to take on Pakistan’s jihadist spies)
Oct 21 2011 - Hillary visits Pakistan mother-in-law type comments etc; admits meeting haqqani network; renegs MM's statement publicly; admits having no proof against ISI etc)
Oct 30, 2011 - Imran Khan names HH in the context of memo at his public rally in Lahore

Nov 08, 2011 - MM denies secret back channel
Nov 11 2011 - MI publishes another article (facts are stubborn things); response to MM(?)
Nov 17 - MM confirms existence of the memo
Nov 17 - HH offers to resign
Nov 18, 2011 - MI names huqqani as source

==
Folks may try to fit these facts and make an opinion; IMO I see interesting parallel tug of war here:

MM vs SD/WH;
Civvies in Pak vs MI/PA via HH

It could also be smoke&mirrors / damage control /de-escalation after MM's testimony; If HH survives, he is most probably the architect of this and the only target then becomes MM. If not this could be more concerted at Zardari also who will go along with HH. Let's see.

[SSridhar]

my thoughts were triggered by rajanb syaing coup not possible as funds get cutoff. then how to remove duspercenti? Well accuse him of plot to defame the kabila guards. HH fell hook, line and sinker into Ijaz's entrapment. But at same time US hand is also shown.

Now speculating here.

What if India got wind of memogate and decided to play a hand by shoring up 'honorable' Gilani and Duspercenti thinking US is going make clean break with the sordid past?

Hence the MMS statements which dont make sense.

Ramana, I agree that Mansoor Ijaz was setup by the ISI to trap both Zardari & the (good) Haqqani, both of whom were thoroughly detested by the PA. The PA has been conducting a villification campaign against both of them ever since they assumed power.

However, your speculation on somehow MMS getting wind of that and thus propping up Zardari and the man-of-peace seems far fetched. I would say that the very act of India supporting a civilian Pakistani government would send the Generals into a tizzy and would be reason enough for them to even do more to destabilize the civilian government. Even among the non-PA sections of Pakistan, Indian support does not count for much. The only saving grace for Pakistan currently is that the 3½ Friends are not willing to condone another PA coup. The Pakistani lawyers' movement (however flawed it may be otherwise) would also be another factor for the PA to think twice. The Judiciary per se does not hold much terror for the PA.

Besides, nobody can believe the 'clean break from the past' story, whether it comes from the PA or the rest of Pakistani society. With loss of governance over most parts of Pakistan and several independent power centres, no Pakistani can make that promise. Pakistanis themselves have had no problems with the duplicitous behaviour of their government in foreign policy matters, taking only tactical decisions, punching far above their weight, using terror against other countries etc, especially if these are against India. In fact, they prefer it that way. More than that, no sane foreign government can believe such a promise, even if one is made.

Whether Adm. Mullen consigned that Haqqani memo to the dustbin because he knew it was a setup to trap or he did not genuinely believe the contents, nobody knows. But, he would have known that the GotUS has been unable to make the PA change its ways for many years (at least from c. 2004) and the promise by a civilian government to do so, handing over terrorists to the only mortal enemy, India, was way too much for even a naive person to believe.

[rajanb]

I tend to think that MI is the Track II of the ISI.

I also think that everyone is confused about it, except maybe the ISI/PA, and am sure the yanks did do something about the memo. Not all the six points. The yanqui party line about no action on the memo is a bit too suspect. For the simple reason that they may also have been caught with their pants down. I mean, that is their unblemished record anyway.

If one were to take as credible, a realisation, by mango abduls, that the Fauji's have been leading the mango abduls down the garden path, then the Faujis would be wary of engineering a coup.

The promise in the memo of also getting the 28/11 lot to justice? Did that trigger a faster pyar from our side? In the hope that mango abduls and the Paki political parties constituencies would see it as some sort of assistance to the Paki economy?

To me, net result out of this confusion is that it seems probable that a coup may not work in todays circumstances and would have to be the most ruthless of coups to succeed. the SC would have to be got out of the way and we have seen that now the SC does enjoy popular support.

The mist will clear, hopefully.

[Pranav]

Ramana, I agree that Mansoor Ijaz was setup by the ISI to trap both Zardari & the (good) Haqqani

The ISI had no reason to get Ijaz to write his anti-ISI article in the Financial Times.

More likely it is Ijaz's long-standing CIA connections that are at work.

Net effect of the episode is to destabilize Zardari, maybe trigger a coup. Why would the CIA want that? Unhappiness with Zardari is probably not the reason. But there are other possibilities.

[chetak]

Apologise for 1971 atrocities: B'desh to Pakistan .

Bangladesh has demanded a formal apology from Pakistan for the atrocities carried out by its troops during the 1971 Liberation War.

The demand came as the new Pakistani envoy called on Foreign Minister Dipu Moni here.

He said Moni also asked new Pakistani High Commissioner Afrasiab Mehdi Hashmi to settle the issues of division of assets and war reparations saying, "early resolution of the outstanding issues would enable the existing friendly relations between Bangladesh and Pakistan to make a great leap forward and create a wider space for cooperation".

Foreign ministry officials had earlier said since 1971, Bangladesh wanted its share of USD 4 billion worth of pre-independence exchange, bank credit, and movable assets, which were deposited or protected in West Pakistan during the Liberation War.

Bangladesh also wants settlement of USD 200 million, which Pakistan received from the international community as donation for the 1970 cyclone victims of the then East Pakistan.

Under a 1975 agreement, Bangladesh accepted half of Pakistan's pre-1971 external debts, but the asset-sharing issue remained unresolved.

Islamic banking?

[Anujan]

ISI probably did a double entrapment. Haqqani was probably as much a target as unkil. Probably they wanted to see if unkil will support a civvies takeover and Mullen didn't fall for it.

[sum]

Deepest friend getting a taste of Pakistaniyat:
Chinese engineers escape militant attack in Pak; 5 killed

In a second major attack in as many days, suspected militants in Pakistan's restive southwest Balochistan province today attacked a group of Chinese engineers being escorted by security forces, killing five persons and injuring 11 others.

The Chinese engineers escaped unhurt in the attack in which three security personnel were among those killed, officials were quoted as saying by TV news channels.

The incident occurred in Dera Bugti district, which has sizeable gas reserves. But, there was no official word on the incident. Chinese nationals are involved in several projects in northwest and southwest Pakistan.

In the past, two Chinese engineers were kidnapped by the Taliban. They were later freed by security forces.

Today's attack came a day after 14 security personnel, including an Army major, were killed in clashes between paramilitary troops and militants of the banned Baloch

Balochistan suddenly seems to be heating up!!!

[Vikas]

Apologise for 1971 atrocities: B'desh to Pakistan .

Bangladesh has demanded a formal apology from Pakistan for the atrocities carried out by its troops during the 1971 Liberation War.

The demand came as the new Pakistani envoy called on Foreign Minister Dipu Moni here.

He said Moni also asked new Pakistani High Commissioner Afrasiab Mehdi Hashmi to settle the issues of division of assets and war reparations saying, "early resolution of the outstanding issues would enable the existing friendly relations between Bangladesh and Pakistan to make a great leap forward and create a wider space for cooperation".

Foreign ministry officials had earlier said since 1971, Bangladesh wanted its share of USD 4 billion worth of pre-independence exchange, bank credit, and movable assets, which were deposited or protected in West Pakistan during the Liberation War.

Bangladesh also wants settlement of USD 200 million, which Pakistan received from the international community as donation for the 1970 cyclone victims of the then East Pakistan.

Under a 1975 agreement, Bangladesh accepted half of Pakistan's pre-1971 external debts, but the asset-sharing issue remained unresolved.

Islamic banking?

does BD owe us the part of the debt that Pakistan didn't pay during 47 as per terms of partition.

[Lalmohan]

yup and properties of displaced refugees