India-Russia: News & Analysis

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 19 Dec 2011 13:45

There is something primeval about the west that makes it incompatible with indian religions. ISKON is monotheist in nature. It is an abrahamic representation of indian religions. I don't understand why would anyone want to give some jesus-freaks a dose of indian religions and turn them into krishna-freaks. I don't think it'll ever work with the west.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 19 Dec 2011 14:04

RajeshA wrote:Acharya ji,

then the Russians should take out the those in the local chapter who are involved in this, but going after BG is going for a very big panga with Indians!

There is no sensible excuse for banning Gita even if ISKCON consisted solely of paid assassins or prostitutes or whatever. How people here can't see that and are making excuses for Russian ban is beyond me. Next you-all will be expressing sympathy and understanding for Saudi arabia's ban on Gita also or what?

I expected better intellect and less eagerness to abandon the Raksha of Bharat on the most specious of excuses.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Dec 2011 14:05

nvishal wrote:There is something primeval about the west that makes it incompatible with indian religions. ISKON is monotheist in nature. It is an abrahamic representation of indian religions. I don't understand why would anyone want to give some jesus-freaks a dose of indian religions and turn them into krishna-freaks. I don't think it'll ever work with the west.

The standard chant among the ISKCON followers is the Maha Mantra:

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare

Both Krishna and Rama are spoken of! Does that sound monotheistic to you? Please inform yourself before speaking disparagingly about some group!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Dec 2011 15:06

Nvishal, You may not agree with ISKON philosophy but can you justify actions by Russian authorities other than plain bigotry.

P.S - CIA front etc.. some people really hate the organisation.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Dec 2011 15:32

Aditya, at least some of the angst emerges from the fact that some of the goras who were in the organisation at that point were very condescending towards Indians, quite contrary to their avowed beliefs. there was a case where a cow was shot by a gora bhakt for breaking into his garden. this created a major ruckus, even without the obvious problems, fingers were pointed at the fact that the said person was not supposed to have guns.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 19 Dec 2011 15:40

Long post warning:

Based on my experience with ISKCON in N-Europe, like different individuals manifest different traits, but overall ISKCON may appear as too "clinical" and less "Bhavuk" for lack of appropriate word in English. About monotheism aspect, yes there is a dominant view that goes to the length of describing ISKCON professing a religion "Krishnaism" and do not consider themselves Hindus. The good part is that they are very much close revivalist in terms of Vedic rituals. There are many influential persons in ISKCON who very much understand the reasons for discomfort for SDRE Hindus with certain teachings in ISKCON, and wherever possible they try to promote a broad view. The reason for this brief background is that there is substance in the arguments of both the parties (Indics opposing and supporting ISKCON). I personally believe it is a good start.

Now coming to the Indo-Russia relevance to this topic, there is a swell of support for the vedic memes in E-Europe (Latvia, Russia, etc) given the fact that many were nature worshippers before the advent of organized church, so for them, giving Aahuti to Indra, Varuna, Agni, etc fits in well with their folklore. Combine this with overall decline in xtianity in Europe, newly found political support for church in Russia, west meddling in Russia, provides many reasons. To give an example, countries like Finland, Sweden, Baltic states who do not lose a chance to ungli Russia, are the key proponents of ISKCON in Russia, this might make Russi establishment types good false excuse or good reasons or a combination of both.

For most Russians, ISKCON does not have any connection with Bharat, for them it is something coming via western europe. What is needed is decoupling of BG/Vedic Philosophy with any single cult, otherwise we risk hijacking of Dharmic symbols like it was done w.r.t swastik. Banning of BG must be opposed, what it says applies to srushti not just ISKCON followers.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Dec 2011 17:29

The best part of the dispute, look who is now a supporter of Lord Krishna

Storm in Lok Sabha over move to ban Bhagwad Gita by Siberian court

“We will not tolerate any move to insult Lord Krishna,” said RJD chief Lalu Prasad, who was supported by several members angry over reports that a court in Tomsk was due to pronounce its verdict in a case calling for a ban on the Bhagwad Gita.

Lalu Prasad said the government should lodge a strong protest with Russia, adding “insult to Lord Krishna and the Gita will not be tolerated.”

As soon as he finished speaking, members of Shiv Sena, BJP, RJD, BSP, Samajwadi Party and one Congress member, Ijyaraj Singh, stood up and protested the move. They also sought an immediate intervention by the government.

Lalu when he was power would not dare make such statements which would have made him bad in the Delhi based Sickular circuit.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 19 Dec 2011 17:34

It is duty of Indic state to look after physical welfare of adherents of dharmik faiths and school.. A raja following rajdharma need not tilt the state's policies towards any one faith. but that is not the point.

ISKCON espouses Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's Achintya Bhedabheda Dualist (dvaita-vaadi) Vaishnava school. It is as much part of dharmik and indic conglomerate as saamkhya or bauddha or charvaka school is.

One may or may not agree with achintya bhedabheda world view, but those who espouse it have right to exist and deserve a level playground. this is the duty of a truly secular and dharmik state.

There is nothing that espouses terrorism in Bhagvat Geeta OR any commentary of Bhagvat Geeta (there have been millions of commentaries). this needs to be proven by text and examples. The fact that there is no concept of "infidel" in ISKCON's and Chaitanya's teaching and they place dharma on the top of everything, says it all. No ISKCON follower has ever blown himself up shouting allah ho krishna. nor do they preach this in their pravachana (sermons). So this is moot point.

GOI should have supported cause of ISKCON both diplomatically and judicially. Apparently in free country, everyone can sue anyone (although one wonders how free russia is). The VHP, HSS along with GOI should be protective about physical safety and try to ensure leveled play-field for dharmik adherents, be it ISKCON or Bauddha or Charvaka, or Yoga or tantra or Shaiva..

Whether the idea or school of thought they espouse is good or bad, that is up to the decision of dharmik free market of ideas. relevant ideas survive and spread.. irrelevant die out or remained confined.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Dec 2011 18:08

Aditya_V wrote:Lalu when he was power would not dare make such statements which would have made him bad in the Delhi based Sickular circuit.

I think he has made some remark earlier also regarding pride in the fact that Lord Krishna was a Yadav too.

As the leader of the Yadavs, Lalu Prasad Yadav can hardly be seen as not supporting the word of the most popular Yadav in India and beyond.

But regardless of his reasoning, it is a good thing that he has picked that up as an issue!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 19 Dec 2011 18:42

prahaar wrote:there is a dominant view that goes to the length of describing ISKCON professing a religion "Krishnaism" and do not consider themselves Hindus. The good part is that they are very much close revivalist in terms of Vedic rituals. There are many influential persons in ISKCON who very much understand the reasons for discomfort for SDRE Hindus with certain teachings in ISKCON, and wherever possible they try to promote a broad view. The reason for this brief background is that there is substance in the arguments of both the parties (Indics opposing and supporting ISKCON). I personally believe it is a good start.

This is not something against Hindus, or that they want to distance themselves from Hindus. They look at it a lot more technically than we from India do.

To the word Hindu there is both the ethnic aspect as well as the spiritual worldview aspect. Originally the word 'Hindu' simply meant the inhabitants of the Indus region and later on inhabitants of the whole Indian Subcontinent. Many of the adherents of ISKCON are not from the Indian Subcontinent.

ISKCON considers itself practicing Sanatan Dharma, not "Hinduism". Basically it is 'impossible' for anybody not from the Indian Subcontinent, to become Hindu, but nothing stops him from becoming 'Dharmic' or adopting 'Sanatan Dharma'!

To be frank, I don't have a clue why a Hindu should oppose ISKCON or feel discomfort in it.

Sure in the history of the organization there have been several controversies related to organization, child abuse, etc. but that happens in any organization. Important is that they overcame those problems and have tried to ensure there is no repeat.

prahaar wrote:Now coming to the Indo-Russia relevance to this topic, there is a swell of support for the vedic memes in E-Europe (Latvia, Russia, etc) given the fact that many were nature worshippers before the advent of organized church, so for them, giving Aahuti to Indra, Varuna, Agni, etc fits in well with their folklore. Combine this with overall decline in xtianity in Europe, newly found political support for church in Russia, west meddling in Russia, provides many reasons. To give an example, countries like Finland, Sweden, Baltic states who do not lose a chance to ungli Russia, are the key proponents of ISKCON in Russia, this might make Russi establishment types good false excuse or good reasons or a combination of both.

For most Russians, ISKCON does not have any connection with Bharat, for them it is something coming via western europe. What is needed is decoupling of BG/Vedic Philosophy with any single cult, otherwise we risk hijacking of Dharmic symbols like it was done w.r.t swastik. Banning of BG must be opposed, what it says applies to srushti not just ISKCON followers.

There is no hijacking of symbols taking place here. ISKCON is not a single-leader led organization anymore. It has got a broad leadership.

In fact there is revival of pantheist neo-paganism in Eastern Europe but also in Northern Europe and USA. There are movements like Ásatrú, Odinism, Forn Siðr, Wicca, Theodism, Druidry, etc. There is much scope for Hinduism to give these religions a more solid cosmological and philosophical foundation, as all these religions have many blank spaces. Learned Hindu gurus should open a more intense dialogue with these movements.

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 19 Dec 2011 19:19

RajeshA wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Lalu when he was power would not dare make such statements which would have made him bad in the Delhi based Sickular circuit.
I think he has made some remark earlier also regarding pride in the fact that Lord Krishna was a Yadav too.

As the leader of the Yadavs, Lalu Prasad Yadav can hardly be seen as not supporting the word of the most popular Yadav in India and beyond.

But regardless of his reasoning, it is a good thing that he has picked that up as an issue!

Let one leader fume and another say its unfortunate that freedom of religious practise is being compromised

Why require consistency of political leaders? Arent they supposed to reflect popular opinion? If opinion shifts, so should they

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 19 Dec 2011 20:12

RajeshA wrote: This is not something against Hindus, or that they want to distance themselves from Hindus. They look at it a lot more technically than we from India do. To be frank, I don't have a clue why a Hindu should oppose ISKCON or feel discomfort in it.

I do not have any disagreement with what you have stated, I was just pointing out in different language what you explained. I do not see any danger/malice in their approach, rather I am a part of that community and have good relations with them. Some of them also understand the small differences in their and my approach.

RajeshA wrote:
prahaar wrote:Now coming to the Indo-Russia relevance to this topic, there is a swell of support for the vedic memes in E-Europe (Latvia, Russia, etc) given the fact that many were nature worshippers before the advent of organized church, so for them, giving Aahuti to Indra, Varuna, Agni, etc fits in well with their folklore. Combine this with overall decline in xtianity in Europe, newly found political support for church in Russia, west meddling in Russia, provides many reasons. To give an example, countries like Finland, Sweden, Baltic states who do not lose a chance to ungli Russia, are the key proponents of ISKCON in Russia, this might make Russi establishment types good false excuse or good reasons or a combination of both.

For most Russians, ISKCON does not have any connection with Bharat, for them it is something coming via western europe. What is needed is decoupling of BG/Vedic Philosophy with any single cult, otherwise we risk hijacking of Dharmic symbols like it was done w.r.t swastik. Banning of BG must be opposed, what it says applies to srushti not just ISKCON followers.
There is no hijacking of symbols taking place here. ISKCON is not a single-leader led organization anymore. It has got a broad leadership.

In fact there is revival of pantheist neo-paganism in Eastern Europe but also in Northern Europe and USA. There are movements like Ásatrú, Odinism, Forn Siðr, Wicca, Theodism, Druidry, etc. There is much scope for Hinduism to give these religions a more solid cosmological and philosophical foundation, as all these religions have many blank spaces. Learned Hindu gurus should open a more intense dialogue with these movements.

Again, I do not have any disagreement with what you have stated above. I was just pointing out the fertile landscape available for Dharmic memes to grow while being careful about SD/Hinduism/Krishnaism symbols not being misused by anyone. Also, I should make it clear that in no way I intended to accuse ISKCON of hijacking (I am sorry if that sentence comes across to mean that) dharmic symbols.

Having experienced my friends getting knock on the door by police during Diwali for making Rangoli that contained Swastika (in 2010), I know the clear dangers of this phenomena. ISKCON is doing great awakening, my observations were more to do with the reason why some Indians may not be completely comfortable with their ways of working.

All this does not change the fact that for many in Russia, many of the promoters of ISKCON are from Baltic states/NEurope, I feel it should be explained to Russians that BG/ISKCON/SD are much bigger than E-Europe N-Europe etc, and it is not (and cannot) be owned by anyone.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 20 Dec 2011 00:21

Guess who sat on the issue for over 6 weeks

Pulok sat on Bhagvad Gita issue for six whole weeks
Wonder what Obama or the King of Saudi Arabia would do in a visit if an Indian court had cooked the goose for banning their holy book

http://governancenow.com/news/regular-s ... hole-weeks

Other worthies who were sent the communication
A similar protocol was endeavoured for four key people on cc., ie, UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi, Commerce and Industry Minister Anand Sharma, External Affairs Minister SM Krishna, and National Security Advisor Shiv Shankar Menon. It was hoped that diligent follow up will ensure that at least one of these people will understand that doing business with Russia will be difficult once India’s social media stream discovers how a state prosecutor is leading the charge against the Bhagwatgita.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Dec 2011 00:36

prahaar ji,

thanks for the clarification!

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 20 Dec 2011 02:18

RajeshA ji,
I should have put up a disclaimer on the last post of mine. anyway, it wasn't my intention to hurt anybody's beliefs or feelings. let us agree to disagree here. but I still contend that in the quest for finding something suitable for the "west" ISKCON traveled too far too fast. they should have been more circumspect in their expansionary phase, IMO.

-peace-

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 20 Dec 2011 19:50

Petition against banning of the Bhagavad Gita in Russia:

http://www.petitions24.com/gita

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 20 Dec 2011 20:04

Carl wrote:Petition against banning of the Bhagavad Gita in Russia:

http://www.petitions24.com/gita

Bhagavad Gita too hot for Russia

A ban on the Bhagavad Gita by a Moscow court that judged the sacred Hindu religious text guilty of advocating war and spreading social discord has vexed the Russian capital's 15,000-strong Indian community and the Hare Krishna movement. With Indian luminaries and parliamentarians rushing into the brouhaha, scholars say they cannot fathom why the transcendental teachings should be branded "extremist literature".

Our parliamentarians should be focussing on the Lokpal issue. Although this is important, I hope they are not misuing this as an opportunity to delay.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 20 Dec 2011 23:55

Do read in full....

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/russi ... y/889960/0

Russia expresses sadness over Bhagwad Gita controversy

"It is strange that such events are unfolding in the beautiful university city in Siberia, as Tomsk which is famous for its secularism and religious tolerance," Alexander M Kadakin, Russian Ambassador in India said in a statement here.

"Well, it seems that even the lovely city of Tomsk has its own neighbourhood madmen. It is sad indeed.

"I consider it categorically inadmissible when any holy scripture is taken to the courts. For all believers these texts are sacred," the Ambassador said.

Kadakin said, "It is not normal either when religious books are sent for examination to ignorant people. Their academic scrutiny should be done at scientists' fora, congresses, seminars, etc. but not in courts."

I quite like the Russian Amby's views, on one hand he clearly holds the Bhagawat in high esteem, but does not give a "scripture" a free pass (thus blocking scriptures which demand no inquiry therein) -- asking for books to be examined in intellectual space.

India takes up Gita ban issue with Russian authorities

India has strongly taken up the issue of demand for banning Hindu scripture Bhagavad Gita, which a group linked to the Christian Orthodox Church has described as 'extremist', with the Russian authorities, Indian Ambassador to Russia Ajai Malhotra said.

Malhotra personally and his mission here have been publicly expressed their support to the local chapter of International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON).

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 21 Dec 2011 02:09

A picture is worth 1000 words
http://www.salagram.net/sstp-Moscow.html

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 21 Dec 2011 02:20

RamaY wrote:A picture is worth 1000 words
http://www.salagram.net/sstp-Moscow.html

Now look for the Raa Agint in those photos!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 21 Dec 2011 03:53

Just as India has established the India-Japan-US trilateral dialogue, so too should India establish a India-Iran-Russia trilateral dialogue especially dealing with Afghanistan and Energy.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Dec 2011 14:40

The Gita episode should have been a non issue, which has been blown out of proportion, by the Media & by inaction from GoI.

The case was originally filed in June '11, in Tomsk (not Moscow, as was incorrectly reported in some articles).

I've been to Tomsk several times - had a Girlfriend who lived there

Tomsk is a quiet provincial town with hardly any outsiders or Religious minorities (since it is not on the main Trans Siberian railway,
and had few immigrants). News from Tomsk hardly ever makes it to the National media - indeed, the coverage on this incident in the Russian media, is based on quotes from Indian media (no Russian media channel had covered the case or verdict).
The few articles I have seen, are actually surprised at this verdict and stress on the close ties India and Russia have.

If the Russian church wanted to assert itself - against ISCKON, it would have chosen to file the case in Moscow, rather than a province
where there are a negligible number of Hindus and people are curious rather than Xenophobic, about outsiders.
Hence, I believe this is the work of some idiot, or fringe group, who managed to influence the local prosecutor.
The case could have been killed had GoI intervened at the outset and either had a quiet word with the Russian Govt (which does
have influence over judges and courts), or hired a good lawyer.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 22 Dec 2011 16:22

What if this case really is a psy-ops by UK or US dirty tricks departments to drive a wedge between India and Russia?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 22 Dec 2011 17:40

Yes rather than ISKCON being the penetrated, those who filed the case could have been penetrated by Western Agencies to drive a wedge between India and Russia.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 22 Dec 2011 17:57

So tomorrow if Russia or some other state takes offence to Quran and attempts to outlaw it, can we expect the now-silent sickulars to go ballistic, citing the present scenario?

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Dec 2011 20:13

abhischekcc wrote:What if this case really is a psy-ops by UK or US dirty tricks departments to drive a wedge between India and Russia?

I wouldn't rule it out.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 22 Dec 2011 20:48

RajeshA wrote:
RamaY wrote:A picture is worth 1000 words
http://www.salagram.net/sstp-Moscow.html
Now look for the Raa Agint in those photos!

Veeji,

That sister who was giving harati and all those little little Sri Krishnas and Sri Lalitas running around

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Dec 2011 13:59

By Jove! Smiley must be turning over in his grave with this turn up for the books.Imagine it,the Queeen renting out her palace grounds to the ....Russkies!
Cold War afficiandos will be horrified at the very thought of it...or is it a diabolic plot by MI-5/6 to rumble the Russkies at the party?.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sians.html

Queen rents Olympic venue to Russians
The Queen is renting out the grounds of Kensington Palace to Russia’s Olympic commitee during the 2012 Games in order to boost the Royal Household’s budget.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 24 Dec 2011 00:20

abhischekcc wrote:What if this case really is a psy-ops by UK or US dirty tricks departments to drive a wedge between India and Russia?

Now that I think about it, it seems quite likely. After all, just recently India and Russia issued a joint statement over Iran, against military action and in favor of diplomacy, while also warning Iran about complying with IAEA, etc. It could well be psy-ops to break up Indo-Russian common ground.

I do recall that a few years back when the antagonism between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Hare Krishnas was hot, one of the leaders of the Orthodox campaign against the Hare Krishnas was actually based in the US! He was once photographed directing a stoning of a Rath-yatra. He was also behind the co-ordinated effort at that time, which included a respected archbishop writing a thesis that Krishna = Satan, etc. So all this was being co-ordinated from within the US. At that time the significance of this didn't strike me, but now that I think about it...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Dec 2011 17:21

Russia’s GDP may grow by 4,1% in 2011

MOSCOW, August 27 (Itar-Tass) —— The Russian Ministry of Economic Development expects that Russia’s GDP may grow by 4.1% in 2011 that is a little bit lower than the previous target rate (4.2%). The specified report on the forecast of Russian socio-economic development for 2011 and the planned period until 2014 contained these figures, Deputy Minister of Economic Development Andrei Klepach told reporters on Saturday.

“This is caused by the fact that the effect (of the growth) is quite low for the first half of this year, if to extrapolate it, we can reach 3.8%-3.9% in growth. But we expect some accelerated growth by the yearend,” Klepach elaborated. Meanwhile, the Russian GDP will increase by 3.7% against 3.5%, which were earlier forecasted in 2012, and by four percent (previously forecasted 4.2%) in 2013 and 4.6% in 2014, he noted.

The forecast for the growth of investments in the capital assets was left unchanged at six percent of the previous forecast. Meanwhile, “we raised substantially” the consumer demand forecast, Klepach pointed out. “For instance, the retail trade, went up 5.3% according to our forecasts. The figure was 3.8% in the previous forecast, but this was reported before the Russian Statistics Service revised the basic growth rate,” the deputy minister of economic development elaborated. “The forecasts were lowered in terms of investments for the years to come,” Klepach said. The investments will grow just by 7.8% (8.8% in the previous forecast) in 2012, and by 7.1% (7.7% in the previous forecast) in 2013 and by 7.2% (9.6% in the previous forecast) in 2014. This downward tendency will be taking shape primarily thanks to a lower growth rate of state investments and the investments of infrastructure industries, infrastructure companies and natural monopolies.

The industrial production growth forecast for 2011 was brought down to 4.8% from 5.4%, which were earlier forecasted. The Ministry of Economic Development did not revise the real incomes of people for 2011. In 2012 the real incomes will increase by 4.8% (four percent were previously forecasted), will grow by 4.9% (4.4% were previously forecasted) in 2013 and 5.1% (five percent were previously forecasted) in 2014. The salary forecast for this year was revised in the upward trend. The salary will grow by 3.6% against previously forecasted 3.3% by the end of this year.

As for the inflation rate, the ministry lowered the upper level of the inflation corridor. Thus, the inflation forecast for 2011 is within 6.5%-7%. “Now we are close to 6.5%, but the inflation will hardly go down due to the inflation risks at the end of the year,” Klepach said. The inflation forecast for 2012-2013 remained unchanged at 5-6% and 4.5%-5.5%, respectively. Only in 2014 the inflation rate will accelerate slightly to make 4.5%-5.5% instead of 4-5%, which were forecasted previously.

Manu · Post by **Manu** » 27 Dec 2011 02:12

ISKCON in Russia is funded 100% by Ford Foundation - for, as one of my favorite posters likes to put it - social engineering. Just a simple check will make this apparent.

ISKCON was used to bring "God to a godless Russia". Started in the early 1970s and a decade later (under Brezhnev) several ISKCON folks were jailed.

I think it was in 1985 (very much during the cold war) when the deputy head of the KGB stated: three main threats to the Soviet Union were: pop music, Western culture, and Hare Krishna.

Look up "Committee to Free Soviet Hare Krishnas". This has a long history to it.

Ironically, in 1988, the Council for Religious Affairs officially registered the Moscow Society for Krishna Consciousness (the first religious society registered in the Soviet Union since World War II).

This is definitely foreign backed. Doesn't excuse Ugly Russian Xenophobia of course.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 27 Dec 2011 03:07

Manu wrote:ISKCON in Russia is funded 100% by Ford Foundation - for, as one of my favorite posters likes to put it - social engineering. Just a simple check will make this apparent.

You might have also cared to mention that one of the Iskcon founder's disciples was Ford scion Alfred Ford aka Ambarisha Das. He heavily funds big projects within Iskcon, including some in Mayapur, India, and a proposed "Vedic planetarium", etc.

Moreover, it was also the Iskcon founder's own statements (not Ford Foundation's) that his greatest wish was for Vaishnavism to be preached in the Communist and the Islamist countries.

Further, the idea of "social engg" was conceived by the Iskcon founder himself (not Ford Foundation), in line with the mission statements of the 6 Gosvamis of Vrindavan 400 years ago who were charged with rolling back Islamization and reconstructing Hindu holy places that were lying dormant, such as Vrindavan, Puri, and over the last 150 years, Navadwipa in WB. Bhaktivedanta Swami called it "cultural conquest".

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 27 Dec 2011 03:22

Conspiracy theorists would see nothing but.....

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 27 Dec 2011 11:53

Carl wrote: one of the leaders of the Orthodox campaign against the Hare Krishnas was actually based in the US! He was once photographed directing a stoning of a Rath-yatra. He was also behind the co-ordinated effort at that time, which included a respected archbishop writing a thesis that Krishna = Satan, etc. So all this was being co-ordinated from within the US. At that time the significance of this didn't strike me, but now that I think about it...

I do remember seeing one such program on TV, long time ago, that said Krishna was a demon. When one opens our heart and asks Krishna to come in it, we are asking a demon to take over. But the US is full of crazies like that.
Gautam

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Dec 2011 20:52

Ford foundation or no, the russians will not risk pissing off India at any cost.

Sheer weight of economics and greed will triumph over ideology and over religion every time.

Russian court dismisses plea to ban Bhagavad Gita

NEW DELHI: Hindus in Russia Wednesday won a hard-fought six-month battle in a Siberian court against a plea to ban the Bhagavad Gita, among their holiest of religious scriptures, with the judge dismissing the state prosecutors' stand the book be branded "extremist" literature, as first reported by IANS.

The court in the Siberian city of Tomsk took up the case for a final hearing Wednesday morning and the judge, after reviewing the petition from the state prosecutors and the responses from the Hindus, dismissed the plea.

"The court has dismissed the state prosecutors' case during the hearing today," Sadhu Priya Das, a leader of the Russian unit of International Society for Krishna Consciousness (Iskcon), told IANS on the phone from Moscow.

The case has been going on in the Tomsk city court since June and Hindus in Russia had pleaded with the Indian government to intervene diplomatically.

After the Indian authorities were informed of the case, the government in New Delhi and the Indian embassy in Moscow too took up the matter with the Russian government.

Indian External Affairs Minister SM Krishna had met Russian Ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin Tuesday on the issue.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 28 Dec 2011 22:12

chetak wrote:Sheer weight of economics and greed will triumph over ideology and over religion every time.

And a real meeting of minds too.

That is mocked, but is true nevertheless.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Dec 2011 23:09

Its good that this is behind , the court took the right decision and on merit.

The issue was too sensitive now the court take a decision in favour of ISKON many would complain its done under Indian Government Pressure or Russian pressuring its court to take that decision or something else.

If the court would have banned the Holy Book or some text of it many would have complained it was done under Orthodox Church Pressure with a nod nod wink wink from Russian Government.

Either ways it was a legal case all along with loosing party having every right to appeal in higher court.

Jeff Lira · Post by **Jeff Lira** » 31 Dec 2011 21:05

This is an interesting article with interesting stats and interesting images of life in USSR. The article compares the condition and views of people in Lithuania, Ukraine and Russia back in 1991 before the collapse of Soviet Union with that of now.

They say that the Democracy, Capitalism and all that which came from west in USSR is a big flop. The survey comes out with some interesting facts. Like People in these countries now prefer a strong leader solving their nation's problem rather than having a democratic multiparty system in which politicians are only worried about their image, turning down the opposition. Similarly more than half percent of Russians and Ukrainians feel that it was a misfortune that Soviet Union collapsed resulting into a unipolar world which led US freely launch wars on small countries for its benefit.

The article Democracy, Capitalism Loosening in Former Soviet Union, Union is Being Missed appeared on The World Reporter

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Jan 2012 15:27

In communist ideology, they are very much concerned of their image. The great Chinese communist leader has to stage manage things, be it a visiting a farmer or anything else. And who said that U.S is democratic. Inside it's Communist with lobbies, corporates ruling while outside it's more Maoist.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Jan 2012 18:38

Sanku wrote:
chetak wrote:Sheer weight of economics and greed will triumph over ideology and over religion every time.
And a real meeting of minds too.

That is mocked, but is true nevertheless.

The issue of a ban in saudi arabia still remains with no one in the GOI willing to bell the cat??